The AgencyHabits Podcast
Go behind the scenes of real agency businesses. The AgencyHabits Podcast shares ideas, lessons, and experiments from across Barrel Holdings - home to a growing portfolio of specialized agencies and over two decades of insights. We share them all here, hoping you’ll test, tweak, and find what works best for your agency.
info_outline
The Six Levers of Profitable Client Engagements | EP20
12/30/2025
The Six Levers of Profitable Client Engagements | EP20
Running an agency is an exercise in risk management. In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim break down the most significant threats that can jeopardize an agency's survival. They move beyond daily annoyances to focus on the high-impact risks that can truly put a business in danger. Using a simple risk matrix framework, Peter and Sei-Wook categorize and explore nine critical vulnerabilities, from founder burnout and partner conflict to client concentration and strategic misalignment. They provide actionable advice on how to identify, prepare for, and mitigate each risk, sharing hard-won insights from their own experiences and their work with Barrel Holdings agencies. Whether you're a solo founder or lead a large team, this episode is an essential guide to building a more resilient, durable business that can withstand the unexpected. Key Moments 1. Defining risk in an agency context and introducing the impact vs. likelihood matrix. 2. Founder Burnout: How the leader's wellbeing directly impacts business stability. 3. Partner Misalignment: The catastrophic potential of unresolved conflict between owners. 4. Key Person Dependency: The danger of over-relying on a single individual or team. 5. Client Side Legal and Delivery Exposure: Navigating scope disputes and liability. 6. Employee Side Legal and Compliance Exposure: Preventing lawsuits and managing HR risk. 7. Strategic Misalignment: Ensuring your agency's direction matches market realities. Real Talk Takeaways 1. The number one priority for any founder is simply staying in business; risk management is the tool to get you there. 2. Founder burnout isn't just about long hours; it's tied to financial stress, isolation, and feeling trapped without options. 3. A poorly defined operating agreement between partners is an invitation for disaster; treat it like a business prenup. 4. Key person risk isn't just about founders; it's any single point of failure in sales, delivery, or client relationships. 5. Your master service agreement is your first line of defense against catastrophic client disputes; never accept unlimited liability. 6. Proactive, documented performance management is the best insurance against wrongful termination lawsuits. 7. Strategic risk is a slow burn; constantly test new directions through small experiments before making big bets. Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction to Agency Risk and the Risk Matrix 02:30 – Founder Burnout: The Invisible Threat to Stability 06:08 – Partner Conflict and the Path to a Shutdown 10:45 – Key Person Dependency and the Value of "Key Man" Insurance 14:31 – Client Legal Exposure and the Art of the MSA 20:11 – Employee Lawsuits and the Importance of EPLI Insurance 24:02 – Business Continuity: Cyber Attacks and Natural Disasters 27:47 – Insolvency: Why Profit Doesn't Equal Cash 30:00 – Client Concentration: The Danger of a Single Anchor Client 32:30 – Strategic Misalignment: Are You Chasing a Fading Trend? Notable Quotes "Individual buyers… are in many instances buying a job. I think it might be somebody who worked in the corporate environment for many, many years… they wanted something where they had more control, autonomy over their time." — Peter Kang on the motivation of individual acquirers. "Strategic buyers… think it's a one plus one equals three situation… they're willing to pay higher multiples. And usually, this might be another agency that's bigger or maybe even a network." — Peter Kang on why strategics pay a premium. "Private equity firms… their job is to acquire, grow, and sell within a three to seven year time horizon. So their intent is to grow value and sell. And I think that's an important distinction here." — Sei-Wook Kim on the private equity model. "In a HoldCo… there's no fund, there's no investors, there's nothing that forces actions in one way or another." — Sei-Wook Kim on the flexibility of independent holding companies. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook Kim on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/39565510
info_outline
Learning From Other Agency Owners | EP19
12/24/2025
Learning From Other Agency Owners | EP19
Great agencies are not built in isolation. In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim explore the transformative power of community and peer learning for agency founders. The hosts share their personal journey from working in a silo to actively seeking mentorship and joining dedicated communities, revealing how these connections helped them avoid blind spots, gain crucial perspective, and accelerate their growth. Peter and Sei-Wook break down specific communities that have been instrumental to their journey, including Bureau of Digital, Society of Digital Agencies (SoDA), and Collective 54. They discuss the unique value of both agency-specific and cross-industry networks, and offer practical advice on how to get the most out of being a member. Crucially, they also warn against the "cargo cult" mentality of blindly copying what seems to work for others, emphasizing the importance of understanding the underlying principles and adapting ideas to your own unique context. For any agency owner feeling stuck or curious about what’s beyond their own four walls, this episode is a compelling case for seeking out your peers. Key Moments 1. The shift from isolation to seeking external perspective and mentorship. 2. The surprising generosity and transparency found in early one-on-one meetings with admired agency owners. 3. How structured communities like Bureau of Digital and SoDA provide exponential learning and relationship-building opportunities. 4. The value of cross-industry networks like Collective 54 for broader strategic insights. 5. Actionable ways to get the maximum value from any community you join. 6. Understanding and avoiding the dangerous "cargo cult" mentality in business. 7. The long-term benefit: building real, lasting relationships that provide support and perspective for years. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Early in your journey, you may think you have all the answers, but seeking outside perspective is a sign of strength, not weakness. 2. Most successful agency owners are remarkably open and willing to share their knowledge if you reach out with genuine curiosity. 3. Communities accelerate learning by exposing you to dozens of perspectives and solutions to problems you're currently facing. 4. Cross-industry professional groups can provide unexpected and highly valuable insights applicable to your agency. 5. To get the most from a community, come with a curious mindset, contribute your own experiences, and focus on building real relationships. 6. Never blindly copy a tactic or model from another agency without understanding the "why" behind its success. 7. Treat new ideas as hypotheses to test in small ways within your own context, rather than mandates to implement immediately. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: The Power of Learning from Peers 00:28 – Our Early Days: Working in a Silo vs. Seeking Mentorship 02:48 – The Value of Joining a Community 04:00 – Spotlight: Bureau of Digital and Owner Camp 04:39 – Spotlight: Society of Digital Agencies (SoDA) 07:02 – Spotlight: Collective 54 and Cross-Industry Learning 10:23 – How to Get the Most Value from Any Community 13:19 – The Critical Lesson: Avoiding the "Cargo Cult" Mentality 17:03 – Personal Story: Falling into the Copy Trap and Learning From It 19:50 – Evolving Your Approach: Treating Peer Ideas as Hypotheses 21:03 – Final Takeaway: Growth Happens in Community Notable Quotes "Early on… the fact that they would, number one, respond. But also set aside time, in some cases, several hours to just sit down with us and talk to us about their business and be super transparent." — Sei-Wook Kim on the surprising generosity found when reaching out to other agency owners. "In a room with a lot of people who throw around ideas and experiences, it's easy to jump onto things. So I think that's something to be mindful of." — Sei-Wook Kim on the danger of latching onto surface-level tactics without understanding the context. "Oftentimes, if you're just in your own world, you're siloed and that's all you see. It's hard to have perspective." — Peter Kang on why external learning is critical for agency founders. "I remember the team would just groan like, 'Oh God, Peter went to another one of these things.' It's gonna be more slew of ideas." — Peter Kang on his early tendency to bring back too many unfiltered ideas from peer meetings before learning to adapt them. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook Kim on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn: Bureau of Digital: Society of Digital Agencies (SoDA): Collective 54:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/39500215
info_outline
Why Agencies Rely on Referrals But Few Treat It as a System | EP18
12/17/2025
Why Agencies Rely on Referrals But Few Treat It as a System | EP18
Most agencies say they rely on referrals, but few treat them as a system. In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dismantle the "hope-based" approach to referrals and lay out a strategic framework for building a consistent pipeline. Drawing from the book The Referral Code, they redefine referrals as a transfer of goodwill and share actionable tactics for intentional referral generation. Peter and Sei-Wook cover how to identify the right people to ask, the critical importance of timing your ask within a "state of appreciation," and how to craft effective, open-ended questions. They also discuss managing referral relationships long-term, staying top of mind, and when a transactional referral partnership might make sense. For any agency owner ready to transform sporadic referrals into a predictable engine for growth, this episode provides the blueprint. Key Moments 1. Redefining Referrals: Moving from hope-based belief to an intentional system. 2. The Golden Rule: Never ask for a referral outside a state of appreciation. 3. Avoiding Common Mistakes: Vague asks, poor timing, and automated blunders. 4. Building Your Referral List: Identifying former clients, peers, and affinity networks. 5. The Art of the Ask: Using open-ended phrasing and framing it as helping others. 6. Cultivating a Shortlist: Focusing on quality relationships over volume outreach. 7. Managing the Engine: Following up, showing appreciation, and staying top of mind. Real Talk Takeaways 1. A referral is a transfer of goodwill, not a favor. It’s built on the positive emotions someone felt working with you. 2. Only 5% of people are natural referrers. The other 95% need to be reminded, which means you must ask—and keep asking. 3. Timing is everything. The worst time to ask is when a client is unhappy; the best is when they are actively reflecting on your positive impact. 4. Be specific. Instead of "anyone who needs marketing," define your ideal client profile and the specific situations they face. 5. Your network is a multiplier. A first-degree connection may not be the direct referrer but can connect you to someone who is. 6. Referral management is relationship management. Always keep your referrer in the loop and show genuine appreciation. 7. For super-connectors, a formal, incentivized partnership might be appropriate, blurring the line between emotional referral and strategic partnership. Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction: The Problem with Hope-Based Referrals 01:07 – Defining a Referral as a Transfer of Goodwill 04:16 – Wrong Ways to Ask: Vague Requests and Bad Timing 06:57 – How to Build Your Intentional Referral Engine 09:31 – Who to Target for Referral Seeking 11:24 – The Right Way to Ask: Phrasing and Mindset 13:07 – Managing the Referral Process and Staying Top of Mind 15:17 – When Referrals Become Transactional Partnerships Notable Quotes "We hear over and over again that agencies rely solely on referrals... but they don't treat referrals as a system. It's like a hope-based belief." — Peter Kang on the common agency referral trap. "Only 5% of people are natural referrers... that leaves 95% of us who need the reminding to take that action." — Sei-Wook Kim on the necessity of consistent asking. "A referral is essentially a transfer of goodwill. It's people sharing the feeling that they had working with you with other people in their network." — Peter Kang on the emotional core of referrals. "The rule number one is you have to ask... and then they say rule number two is keep asking. The consistency over time will compound into meaningful impact." — Sei-Wook Kim on the foundational principles from The Referral Code. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook Kim on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: The Referral Code by Larry Pinci and Phil Glosserman The Shortlist by David Ackert
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/39413175
info_outline
How Agencies Should Think About and Manage Risk | EP 17
12/09/2025
How Agencies Should Think About and Manage Risk | EP 17
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim break down the six fundamental levers that drive profitability across all client engagements, whether you run fixed-fee projects, retainers, or long-term service programs. Drawing from real challenges within their own portfolio at Barrel Holdings, Peter and Sei-Wook provide a practical framework for diagnosing and fixing margin compression. They start by defining gross margin and then explore each lever in detail: from pricing and scoping to staffing, engagement design, scope management, reusable IP, and the role of automation and AI. The hosts also fold in core principles around utilization, forecasting, and delivery discipline, showing how these habits reinforce each other to protect and grow your bottom line. For any agency owner feeling the squeeze on margins or looking to systemize profitability, this episode is an actionable guide to building a more efficient and financially resilient business. Key Moments 1. Defining Gross Margin: The starting point for understanding your agency's financial health. 2. Lever 1: Pricing & Scoping – How to align your fee with the cost of delivery from the very beginning. 3. Lever 2: Staffing & Utilization – Balancing senior and junior talent and using contractors to flex capacity. 4. Lever 3: Engagement Design & Approach – The cost of poor process and the power of a clear project plan. 5. Lever 4: Scope Management & Change Orders – Turning scope creep from a profit killer into a managed process. 6. Lever 5: Reusable Components & IP – How specialization and systematization create leverage and higher margins. 7. Lever 6: Automations & AI – Using technology to reduce administrative and execution costs across the delivery lifecycle. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Profitability often leaks at the very start through misaligned pricing and vague scopes. Get this right first. 2. High gross margin on a single project means little if your overall team utilization is low. You must look at the whole picture. 3. A clear, even if imperfect, project plan is far better than a perfect plan that never gets finished or has an open-ended timeline. 4. Managing scope is an art that involves trade-offs, prioritization, and clear documentation—not just issuing change orders. 5. Building a library of reusable components and IP is an investment that pays off by allowing you to deliver higher-quality work faster and with less expensive resources. 6. Automation and AI are no longer optional; they are critical tools for cutting administrative overhead and accelerating execution. 7. Profitability is a team sport. It requires shared accountability through weekly check-ins, forecasting, and structured debriefs. Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction: Why Profitability is Top of Mind 01:00 – The Core Concept: What is Gross Margin? 02:21 – The Three Main Sources of Margin Leakage 02:55 – Introducing the Six Profitability Levers 03:27 – Lever 1: The Critical Alignment of Pricing and Scoping 06:36 – Lever 2: Balancing Staffing Mix and Tracking Utilization 10:36 – Lever 3: Designing Engagements for Efficiency, Not Waste 13:54 – The Importance of Starting with the End in Mind 15:23 – Lever 4: Managing Scope Creep and Change Control 17:48 – Applying Scope Principles to Retainer Engagements 19:57 – Lever 5: Creating Leverage with Reusable Components and IP 22:53 – Lever 6: Implementing Automations and AI 26:01 – Four Habits to Systemize Profitability 29:12 – Closing Thoughts: Profitability is a Team Effort Notable Quotes "Gross margin is the revenue that you receive as a company, minus the cost of delivery... that metric is an indicator of how efficiently you're doing the work." — Sei-Wook Kim on the definition of gross margin. "If you have way too many team members for the amount of work that you have... idle hours where someone has zero billability really crushes your margin really quickly." — Sei-Wook Kim on the impact of poor utilization. "Vague scopes are one of the biggest liabilities when it comes to profitability, because you can get taken for a ride as an agency if you're super vague about what you're actually delivering." — Peter Kang on the danger of unclear scopes. "Building a library of reusable components frees up senior folks to do higher-value work. This is a huge part of why we beat the drum on specialization." — Peter Kang on how IP creates leverage and higher margins. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/39345745
info_outline
Scaling Your Agency Beyond $2M | EP 16
12/03/2025
Scaling Your Agency Beyond $2M | EP 16
In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dissect why agencies hit this wall and what you can do to break through. They explain how founder-centric systems that work at a smaller scale become the primary constraint to growth, leading to breakdowns in client delivery, team management, and financial visibility. The hosts share actionable solutions, from improving onboarding and implementing debrief processes to strategically hiring for your weaknesses and deepening financial rigor. They also introduce the Agency Systems Playbook, a framework of five core systems that drive a scalable agency. Agency growth often stalls at the $1-2 million revenue mark, and it’s usually due to founder bottlenecks. Whether you’re feeling stretched thin at this pivotal growth stage or planning ahead, this episode provides a clear roadmap to build the infrastructure needed for sustainable scale. Key Moments 1. Why the $1-2 million revenue range is a critical breaking point for founder-led agencies. 2. Identifying founder bottlenecks: The hero complex and its impact on growth. 3. The operational breakdowns: Uneven delivery, client churn, and financial blind spots. 4. Solution 1: Systematizing client and team onboarding to transfer context effectively. 5. Solution 2: Implementing debriefs and feedback loops to build an internal improvement engine. 6. Solution 3: Defining your zone of genius and hiring to complement it. 7. Introducing the Agency Systems Playbook: The five systems that drive a scalable agency. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Growth plateaus at $1-2M are often systemic, not a failure of effort. The founder-centric model itself becomes the ceiling. 2. Communication breaks down as you scale. What was implicit between founders must become explicit through processes. 3. Investing in non-billable roles like ops or people management may temporarily shrink margins, but it’s essential for long-term scale. 4. A clear org chart isn’t bureaucracy; it’s a blueprint for delegation and accountability. 5. Financial clarity becomes non-negotiable. You need systems to track profitability, utilization, and cash flow. 6. External perspectives from coaches or implementers can provide the structure and pattern recognition needed to navigate growth challenges. 7. Scaling is a function of robust systems. The Agency Systems Playbook provides a framework to audit and build yours. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:08 – The Challenge of Scaling Past $2M 01:13 – Understanding the Founder Bottleneck 03:46 – How Scaling Impacts Team and Quality 05:02 – Why Financial Systems Become Critical 06:22 – Fixing Onboarding and Communication 09:31 – Using Debriefs to Drive Improvement 10:39 – Hiring for Your Weaknesses 12:43 – Building Your Org and Financial Rigor 14:52 – Embracing Investment and External Help 16:06 – Introducing the Agency Systems Playbook 17:24 – Breaking Down the Five Core Systems 20:53 – Wrap Up and Where to Find Resources Notable Quotes "At that one to $2 million size, you very much built an agency that is founder-centric. And so, the big limitation to growth in many ways is a founder bottleneck." — Peter Kang on identifying the core growth constraint. "As you scale, communication breaks down. Onboarding is actually a really important aspect of making sure communication is smooth." — Peter Kang on the foundational role of process. "As you kind of scale up, if the founder's not gonna be in every client engagement, then it absolutely makes sense for there to be a process, a repeatable process where the team can have the discussion, document, and then turn that into a repeatable SOP." — Sei-Wook Kim on decentralizing improvement. "You gotta look beyond the temporary costs. It may seem like a cost in the short term, but it's really an investment for growth." — Sei-Wook Kim on the mindset shift for hiring key roles. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterkang34/ Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seiwookkim/ AgencyHabits Website: https://www.agencyhabits.com/ AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/agencyhabits/ Barrel Holdings Website: https://www.barrel-holdings.com/ Barrel Holdings LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/barrel-holdings/ Book Mentioned: Simple Numbers, Straight Talk, Big Profits by Greg Crabtree
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/39246025
info_outline
How Agencies Can Be Better at Marketing Themselves | EP 15
11/25/2025
How Agencies Can Be Better at Marketing Themselves | EP 15
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim tackle a common agency pitfall: treating marketing as a short-term, reactive effort only when leads dry up. They argue for a fundamental mindset shift, framing marketing as a long-term investment in reputation and awareness, similar to the compounding benefits of consistent exercise. Peter and Sei-Wook first outline the "basics" of agency marketing: from social posts and case studies to newsletters and events, and then dive deep into six specific, unconventional examples. They share their own experiences with a 24-hour website challenge and open-source software, and highlight other standout campaigns like annual recap microsites, community-building meetups, physical publications, and even an agency-built coffee shop. For any agency owner tired of generic marketing tactics, this episode is a treasure trove of creative, memorable ideas to stand out and build lasting connections with your ideal audience. Key Moments 1. The agency marketing mistake: Why a reactive, short-term lens leads to frustration. 2. Reframing marketing as a long-term investment in reputation and awareness. 3. The basic marketing toolkit: Social media, case studies, newsletters, and events. 4. The 24-hour website challenge showcases speed, skill, and heart. 5. Open-source software, building goodwill and technical credibility. 6. Annual recap microsites, packaging a year’s work into a narrative asset. 7. The final word: Why consistency and experimentation are the keys to marketing success. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Marketing is not a slot machine; it's a long-term activity where results compound over time, much like exercise. 2. The goal of marketing is to be remembered, so when an opportunity arises, your agency is top of mind. 3. Even basic marketing activities can be highly effective if done with consistency and a specific audience in mind. 4. Ambitious, one-off projects like a 24-hour build or a physical publication can generate years of storytelling value and PR. 5. Giving back to the community through open-source code or hosted events builds immense goodwill that can convert to opportunities years later. 6. The right marketing mix requires experimentation; you have to try different things to see what resonates with your target audience. 7. Measure success by asking new prospects how they heard about you, understanding that results often lag 6-12 months behind the effort. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: The Wrong Way to Think About Agency Marketing 01:14 – Marketing as a Long-Term Investment, Not a Slot Machine 02:05 – The Basic Level of Agency Marketing Activities 04:13 – The Power of Doing the Basics Exceptionally Well 05:35 – Introducing Six Unconventional Marketing Examples 06:00 – Example 1: The 24-Hour Website Challenge 07:39 – Example 2: Releasing Open Source Software 09:51 – Barrel Holdings: Acquiring Profitable Agencies 10:14 – Example 3: Using Annual Recaps as a Narrative Tool 11:20 – Putting Your Annual Recap in Email Footers 11:35 – Example 4: Building a Community with Events 13:18 – Example 5: The Impact of Physical Publications 15:05 – Example 6: The Ambitious Big Bet (Like a Coffee Shop) 16:37 – Wrapping Up: The Need for Consistency and Experimentation 18:08 – How to Measure the Impact of Your Marketing Efforts 19:01 – Final Advice: Keep Trying Stuff Notable Quotes "A lot of agencies... by the time marketing enters their minds, it's because the leads have kind of started to dry up... this might be some reactive, quick, 'Hey, let's post some stuff on LinkedIn.'" — Peter Kang on the common reactive approach to marketing. "The way to get the true power of marketing is to think about it as like a long-term investment. It's not like a slot machine where you can just put in some coins and leads will come out right away." — Peter Kang on the long-term investment mindset. "At the core, [marketing is] about building reputation and awareness of who you are, what you do with the specific target that you're after. Ultimately you're trying to connect with that specific audience." — Sei-Wook Kim on the fundamental goal of marketing. "Marketing is a lot about consistency. It's not an on-off type of thing... It's what are the activities that you continue to do that reach the audience that you hope to reach?" — Sei-Wook Kim on the importance of consistent effort. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/39156130
info_outline
[REPLAY] Why & How to Prune Your Client Roster for Agency Growth | EP 19
11/18/2025
[REPLAY] Why & How to Prune Your Client Roster for Agency Growth | EP 19
Holding on to the wrong clients can stunt your agency's growth, drain your team's morale, and cripple your profitability. This statement holds value for agency owners who are overwhelmed by client demands, feel trapped by early, problematic clients, or are struggling to focus their service offerings for maximum impact. In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim tackle the difficult but essential practice of proactively reviewing and pruning your client list. Drawing from Barrel's own journey of specialization, they provide a clear-eyed framework for evaluating which clients are worth keeping. Learn how to assess strategic fit, profitability, relationship quality, and operational load to make data-driven decisions. For any agency owner ready to focus on their ideal customer profile, this episode is your guide to building a healthier, more durable, and more profitable business. Key Moments 1. The "pruning" analogy: Why cutting clients is essential for long-term agency health. 2. How to assess strategic fit using your Ideal Client Profile (ICP). 3. The profitability paradox: Why high-revenue clients can sometimes be hurting your business. 4. Evaluating relationship quality and client-side turnover as a risk factor. 5. The critical red flags in client payment behavior and how to protect your agency. 6. How high-maintenance clients create operational load that leads to team burnout. 7. When to make the hard call: The leader's role in protecting the team and the business. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Your client roster should reflect the agency you are becoming, not the agency you were. 2. A client that doesn't fit your strategic direction is a distraction from your goals. 3. Profitability is not just about revenue; it's about the cost of delivery and the opportunity cost of your team's time. 4. Consistent late payments are a sign of deeper issues; agencies are not banks. 5. The operational load of a "difficult" client can lead to burnout and turnover, which is more costly than the revenue they bring. 6. Pruning a client is a leadership decision that builds immense trust with your team. 7. It's better to bow out of a bad-fit engagement early than to endure a catastrophic failure later. Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction: The Importance of Pruning Your Client Roster 01:20 – The Pruning Analogy for Agency Growth 02:15 – Factor 1: Assessing Strategic Fit & Your Ideal Client Profile (ICP) 04:23 – Factor 2: Analyzing Gross Margin & Profitability 07:17 – Factor 3: Evaluating Account Expansion Potential 09:29 – Factor 4: The Impact of Relationship Quality & Access 13:22 – Factor 5: Payment Behavior as a Critical Red Flag 16:32 – How to Handle Clients with Repeated Payment Issues 19:12 – Factor 6: Managing Operational Load & "Difficult" Clients 22:45 – The Leader's Role in Making the Final Call to Protect the Team 23:25 – Factor 7: Case Study Value vs. Overall Client Health 26:39 – Bonus Factor: Assessing Client Concentration & Reputational Risk 30:24 – Conclusion: Making the Tough Decisions for a Healthier Business Notable Quotes "A client that doesn't fit your strategic direction is a distraction from your goals. You have to kinda make some cuts in order for agencies to thrive in the long run." — Peter Kang on the necessity of strategic pruning "Just because a client is paying you now and supporting your business doesn't mean they're the right fit for the next phase of your growth." — Sei-Wook Kim on evolving your client roster "If every single opportunity where they have to pay comes with tension or friction, that might be a sign that it may not be the right fit." — Sei-Wook Kim on interpreting payment behavior as a warning sign "The operational load of a client can cause turnover. You can lose valuable team members. It's the job of the agency leader to make this decision and build trust with the team." — Peter Kang on the leader's responsibility to protect the team from difficult clients Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38992410
info_outline
[REPLAY] How Much Cash Should Your Agency Keep on Hand? | EP 18
11/11/2025
[REPLAY] How Much Cash Should Your Agency Keep on Hand? | EP 18
Profit on paper doesn't pay the bills. Learn the best practices for designing payment terms and invoicing cadences to create a smooth, predictable cash flow. In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim tackle one of the most critical yet misunderstood aspects of running an agency: cash flow management. They break down the dangerous gap between your P&L's accrual-based profitability and the real money in your bank account, explaining why even "profitable" agencies can face insolvency. Peter and Sei-Wook share hard-earned lessons from their own journey, including how much cash reserve is ideal, when to use a line of credit, and the emotional calculus of using reserves to protect your team during a downturn. For any agency owner who wants to sleep soundly knowing their business is financially durable, this episode provides the essential framework. Key Moments 1. The critical difference between accrual accounting and your actual bank balance. 2. How common payment terms (like 50/50) can create massive cash flow gaps. 3. Best practices for invoicing cadence to match revenue with work completed. 4. The recommended cash reserve for project-based vs. retainer-based agencies. 5. The emotional and strategic dilemma of using reserves to weather a storm. 6. The power of a detailed cash flow forecast for making clear-eyed decisions. 7. The role of insurance and lines of credit as financial safety nets. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Cash is the lifeline of your business; profitability on paper means nothing if you can't make payroll. 2. Design your invoicing to get paid as you do the work, not long after it's completed. 3. A retainer model with upfront payment creates the healthiest cash flow dynamic. 4. Hold 1-3 months of expenses for retainer-based agencies and 3-6 months for project-based agencies. 5. Too much cash in the business can lead to complacency and poor financial discipline. 6. A detailed, rolling cash flow forecast is your most powerful tool for avoiding crises. 7. Insurance isn't just an expense; it's a critical protection against catastrophic risks that cash reserves can't cover. Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction: The Agency Cash Flow Dilemma 00:44 – Accrual Accounting vs. Cash Reality: Why They Rarely Match 01:55 – How Project Payment Terms Create Cash Flow Gaps 03:48 – Best Practice: Designing Your Invoicing for Consistent Cash Flow 05:48 – The Retainer Advantage: Getting Paid Before You Do the Work 07:48 – How to Handle Large Upfront Payments Responsibly 09:27 – How Much Cash Reserve Should Your Agency Hold? 11:22 – The Emotional Toll of Using Reserves to Protect Your Team 13:43 – The Power of a Detailed Cash Flow Forecast 15:53 – Managing Cash Flow Across Multiple Agencies (The Barrel Holdings Model) 18:02 – Beyond Cash Reserves: The Role of Insurance and Lines of Credit 21:42 – Final Recommendation: The 1-to-6-Month Cash Reserve Rule 22:48 – Conclusion: Keeping Your Business Financially Durable Notable Quotes "If you are a more retainer-based business where cash comes in a very consistent cycle, then [your reserve] could be lower. If you're project-based, you may need to keep a lot more cash in the business." — Peter Kang on determining your cash reserve "Too much cash in the business can make you too comfortable... and you may start burning down your cash reserves running a not-profitable business." — Peter Kang on the risk of over-capitalization "Cash is ultimately the lifeline of your business. Can you run your business day to day? Do you have enough on hand to pay your team members, pay your expenses, and then continue to keep the lights on?" — Sei-Wook Kim on the purpose of cash flow management "A line of credit is a tool for an emergency. In terms of order of operations, it's almost always better to use your cash because it's a lot cheaper." — Sei-Wook Kim on using credit vs. cash reserves Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn: (Episode 12) A Lightweight Agency Partnerships Program That Actually Works The Referral Code by Larry Pinci & Phil Glosserman: The Short List by David Ackert:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38992380
info_outline
[REPLAY] How Specialization Impacts Your Agency’s Growth, Margins, and Valuation | EP 16
10/29/2025
[REPLAY] How Specialization Impacts Your Agency’s Growth, Margins, and Valuation | EP 16
Is your agency a "jack-of-all-trades, master of none"? In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dive deep into the transformative power of agency specialization. They break down the critical difference between internal specialization and external positioning, and reveal why narrowing your focus is the ultimate growth accelerator for agencies under $10M in revenue. Peter and Sei-Wook share Barrel Holdings' own journey from a generalist agency serving investment banks and nail salons to a specialized leader in the Shopify CPG space. They provide a clear-eyed view of the trade-offs between generalist and specialist models, and offer practical steps for any agency owner looking to transition. Learn how specialization leads to stronger client relationships, higher fees, better profitability, and ultimately, a significantly higher valuation. For any agency owner tired of competing on price and hungry for durable, scalable growth, this episode is your roadmap. Key Moments 1. Defining specialization vs. positioning: What you master vs. how you tell the world. 2. The generalist trade-off: Why variety can come at the cost of depth and client trust. 3. How specialization builds confidence and allows you to deliver more impactful results. 4. The Barrel story: From a broad generalist to a focused Shopify + CPG expert. 5. The reality check: How to balance your specialization goals with the financial needs of your business. 6. Identifying your "clusters": A practical method for finding your natural specialization. 7. Why Barrel Holdings' entire investment thesis is built on specialized agencies. 8. How specialization drives durability, profitability, and higher valuations. 9. Must-read books and follows to deepen your positioning expertise. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Specialization isn't just a marketing tactic. It's about building deep, internal expertise in a specific area. 2. Generalist agencies can succeed, but often only after reaching a significant scale that smaller shops can't match. 3. Clients pay a premium for confidence; a specialized agency inspires more trust than a generalist. 4. You can still take on work outside your specialization, but your external messaging must remain focused to attract your ideal clients. 5. To identify your natural path to specialization, identify the types of clients you've served repeatedly. Look at them as "clusters" in your existing client base. 6. For acquirers, a specialized agency signals higher retention, longevity, and profitability, which directly translates to a higher valuation. 7. The path to specialization is a journey, not a flip you switch. Start by leaning into what you're already good at. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: The power of agency specialization 00:16 – Defining specialization and positioning 01:43 – Why specialization is a game-changer for growth 01:56 – The pros and cons of generalist vs. specialist agencies 04:51 – Case study: Barrel's specialization journey 07:27 – How to balance focus with financial reality 09:21 – Tips for transitioning from a generalist to a specialist 11:54 – How specialization impacts agency valuation 14:31 – Top books and resources to master positioning 15:53 – Conclusion and final thoughts Notable Quotes "Specialization is really about defining what you're gonna master as a business... Positioning is really about how that mastery is expressed to the public." — Peter Kang "If you do specialize, does that mean you can't take on other work outside of that specialization?" — Sei-Wook Kim on balancing focus with business reality. "Our thesis for Barrel Holdings is that... we think specialization offers a degree of durability and profitability that drives value." — Peter Kang "Why would you say it's important for us to go down this path of specialized agencies versus just agencies in general?" — Sei-Wook Kim on Barrel Holdings' investment philosophy. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn: Recommended Reading & Follows The Business of Expertise by David C. Baker Anyone, Not Everyone by Corey Quinn Positioning for Professionals by Tim Williams
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38834230
info_outline
[REPLAY] Are You Calculating Your Agency’s Profits Correctly? | EP 15
10/22/2025
[REPLAY] Are You Calculating Your Agency’s Profits Correctly? | EP 15
Agency profitability isn’t always what it seems. In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim break down how to really evaluate your agency’s profit. The hosts also talks about why two agencies reporting the same margins can mean totally different things. They unpack the difference between EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization) and SDE (Seller’s Discretionary Earnings), showing how owner salaries, distributions, and “normalization” adjustments can completely change the story. Whether you’re thinking about selling your agency or just want a clearer view of your true financial performance, this episode will help you see beyond surface-level numbers and benchmark your agency’s health the way experienced acquirers do. Key Moments 1. SDE vs. EBITDA — and why the difference matters when valuing your agency. 2. How owner salaries can inflate or deflate your real profit margins. 3. A walkthrough of sample P&L scenarios to illustrate EBITDA normalization. 4. What Barrel Holdings looks for when assessing profitability across agencies. 5. The “replacement cost” principle: paying yourself like someone you’d hire. 6. How agency size changes the EBITDA-to-SDE gap. 7. Why scaling up makes your profit story more consistent and credible. 8. The final takeaway: Normalize your numbers before you talk about valuation. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Many agency owners misread their profit margins. Clarity starts with defining how you calculate them. 2. SDE includes owner comp; EBITDA assumes you’ve paid yourself a market-rate salary. 3. If your EBITDA looks high, check whether your salary is unrealistically low. 4. For acquirers, EBITDA reveals the agency’s true operating performance, not the lifestyle of the owner. 5. Always factor in the cost to replace yourself when analyzing profitability. 6. At scale, the gap between SDE and EBITDA narrows, showing a healthier business model. 7. Transparency in financials builds credibility with potential buyers and investors. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:18 – Why profitability discussions often aren't apples-to-apples comparisons 00:44 – Defining SDE (Seller's Discretionary Earnings) vs. EBITDA 01:12 – The importance of understanding these different calculation methods 01:59 – Walking through concrete spreadsheet examples 02:11 – Sample P&L breakdown: $1M revenue agency with $500K COGS 02:35 – What constitutes COGS in an agency business 03:10 – SG&A expenses and how owner salary factors into calculations 03:56 – SDE calculation: adding back owner salary for 40% margin 04:26 – Why owners might take distributions instead of fixed salaries 05:18 – EBITDA scenarios: how different owner salaries create different margins 06:11 – The "too low" scenario: $65K salary inflating EBITDA to 33.5% 06:40 – The "too high" scenario: $250K salary depressing EBITDA to 15% 07:48 – How Barrel Holdings normalizes owner salary for fair comparisons 08:23 – The replacement cost framework for owner compensation 09:27 – Adjusting EBITDA calculations based on realistic replacement costs 10:38 – Why Barrel Holdings requires 15% EBITDA using their calculation method 11:22 – How these calculations change dramatically at scale 11:56 – $10M revenue example: why percentages converge at larger scale 12:57 – When owner salary becomes negligible in large, structured agencies 13:26 – The importance of understanding owner role and replacement cost 13:43 – Practical advice for agency owners on calculating true profitability Notable Quotes “Oftentimes when we look at agencies and people talk about their profitability, it’s really unclear how they’re calculating it — it’s not always apples to apples.” — Peter Kang “Are you talking about profit after paying yourself a market salary, or before? That one choice can swing your margins by 10–20 points.” — Sei-Wook Kim “If your agency says it’s doing 40% profit, the first question to ask is: 40% of what? EBITDA or SDE?” — Peter Kang “For acquirers, we always normalize the numbers — it’s the only way to compare agencies fairly.” — Sei-Wook Kim Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38736970
info_outline
The 6 Types of Agency Buyers: Who They Are and What They Really Want | EP 14
10/13/2025
The 6 Types of Agency Buyers: Who They Are and What They Really Want | EP 14
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim break down the complex landscape of agency acquirers. They map out the six primary types of buyers, from individual entrepreneurs to massive strategic networks, explaining the distinct motivations, financial structures, and long-term goals for each. Peter and Sei-Wook provide a clear-eyed view of what it's like to sell to each buyer type, covering everything from highly leveraged individual purchases to the synergy-driven deals of strategic acquirers and the financial engineering of private equity platforms. They also delve into the nuances of management buyouts, employee ownership plans (ESOPs), and the "permanent capital" model of independent holding companies like Barrel Holdings. For any agency owner considering an exit or simply curious about the acquisition game, this episode offers an essential guide to understanding who might be on the other side of the table and how to align your own goals with the right buyer. Key Moments 1. Mapping the acquirer landscape: Why not all agency buyers are the same. 2. The Individual Buyer: Buying a job, financing with SBA loans, and the risks/rewards of high leverage. 3. The Strategic Buyer: The pursuit of synergy, higher multiples, and the reality of brand integration. 4. Private Equity Platforms: The roll-up strategy, multiple expansion, and operating on a 3-7 year timeline. 5. The Independent HoldCo: The "permanent capital" model focused on long-term compounding and decentralized operations. 6. Management Buyouts: A gradual ownership transfer to the next generation of internal leaders. 7. Employee Ownership (ESOPs): Preserving legacy and culture through employee stock ownership plans. 8. Where Barrel Holdings fits: Our philosophy on long-term ownership, autonomy, and sustainable cash flow. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Individual buyers are often "buying a job," using heavy debt to acquire a business they can operate and grow themselves. 2. Strategic buyers pay premiums for synergy, but be prepared for your brand and culture to be absorbed into the larger entity. 3. Private equity is in the business of buying, growing, and selling within a fixed timeline—their incentives are tied to a future exit. 4. Independent holding companies offer a long-term, "permanent capital" alternative without the pressure of a fund-based exit. 5. A management buyout is a stable, gradual way to transfer ownership and reward the team that helped build the business. 6. ESOPs are less about maximizing price and more about preserving a company's legacy and rewarding its employees. 7. The right buyer for you depends entirely on your personal goals for the business's future, your desired involvement, and what you value beyond the check. Timestamps 00:00 - Intro: The different worlds of agency buyers 01:08 - The individual buyer: Motivations and financial structure 03:36 - The seller's experience with an individual buyer 04:13 - The strategic buyer: synergy and higher multiples 06:32 - Risks of strategic integration and cultural mismatch 08:23 - The seller's role and earnout in a strategic acquisition 10:08 - Private equity-backed platforms and the roll-up strategy 12:12 - The private equity playbook and value creation 13:00 - The seller's experience and "second bite" with private equity 15:07 - The independent HoldCo: long-term capital and decentralized ops 17:44 - Flexibility for the seller in a HoldCo deal 19:23 - Management buyouts: transferring ownership internally 21:02 - Employee ownership (ESOPs): preserving culture and legacy 23:34 - How an ESOP works from the seller's perspective 25:27 - Barrel holdings' philosophy and what we look for 29:00 - Closing thoughts: Choosing the right buyer for your future Notable Quotes "Individual buyers... are in many instances buying a job. I think it might be somebody who worked in the corporate environment for many, many years... they wanted something where they had more control, autonomy over their time." — Peter Kang on the motivation of individual acquirers. "Strategic buyers... think it's a one plus one equals three situation... they're willing to pay higher multiples. And usually, this might be another agency that's bigger or maybe even a network." — Peter Kang on why strategics pay a premium. "Private equity firms... their job is to acquire, grow, and sell within a three to seven year time horizon. So their intent is to grow value and sell. And I think that's an important distinction here." — Sei Wook Kim on the private equity model. "In a HoldCo... there's no fund, there's no investors, there's nothing that forces actions in one way or another." — Sei Wook Kim on the flexibility of independent holding companies. "When agency owners think about selling, usually the focus is on, what's the price, what's the timing... But really, as we've illustrated today, there's so many different types of buyers. So it's understanding, what kind of buyer do you want to build a future with?" — Sei Wook Kim on the importance of choosing the right partner. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38558780
info_outline
How We Exited Our Agency Without Selling It | EP 13
10/08/2025
How We Exited Our Agency Without Selling It | EP 13
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim pull back the curtain on one of their most significant career transitions: stepping away from the day-to-day leadership of their first agency, Barrel, without selling the business. They define this strategic move as a "role exit" which is a path less discussed but highly relevant for founder-led businesses. Peter and Sei-Wook share the multi-year journey of identifying and grooming their successor, Lucas Ballasy, from designer to CEO. They detail the practical steps of mapping out their own responsibilities, filling skill gaps, and navigating the emotional challenges of letting go, even amid a major client crisis. The conversation also explores the profound shift in their daily lives post-transition and how this move unlocked their ability to fully focus on building Barrel Holdings. For any agency founder wondering how to eventually step back without a full sale, this episode offers a candid, real-world blueprint built on trust, deliberate planning, and deep relationships. Key Moments 1. Defining a "role exit" and how it differs from a traditional ownership sale. 2. Identifying the right successor: The qualities that made an internal candidate the perfect fit. 3. The multi-year grooming process: From a team member to CEO. 4. The essential first step: Mapping out all founder responsibilities to define the new role. 5. Navigating a major business crisis just before the leadership handoff. 6. The toughest part of letting go: Trust, patience, and resisting the urge to micromanage. 7. Life after the exit: The shift to a strategic focus and building Barrel Holdings. Real Talk Takeaways 1. A "role exit" is a powerful alternative to selling your business, allowing you to retain ownership while freeing up your time. 2. The ideal successor is often already in your building. Look for proactive, low-ego team members hungry for more responsibility. 3. You can't hand off a messy role. You must first map out and systematize all your responsibilities to set the new leader up for success. 4. Transition timing is never perfect. You must trust your chosen leader to navigate challenges, even difficult ones you're handing over. 5. The emotional tie to your first business is immense. Letting go requires immense trust, which is built on a foundation of shared history and values. 6. Post-exit, your focus shifts from daily firefighting to quarterly and yearly strategic planning. 7. The magic formula for a successful transition combines strong personal relationships with deliberate, intentional planning for the future. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: What is a "Role Exit"? 01:08 – Why we decided to step back after 18 years 02:17 – Identifying and grooming our successor: The Lucas Story 03:58 – The practical steps: Mapping out our roles and responsibilities 06:24 – Navigating a crisis: Losing major clients right before the handoff 08:25 – Making the final call to transition amid uncertainty 09:31 – The toughest part: Letting go of control and trusting the new leader 10:10 – Life after the exit: The immediate shift in our daily reality 11:54 – How the transition unlocked our focus on Barrel Holdings 13:16 – The #1 lesson: Why deep relationships make a succession possible 15:02 – The final takeaway: Combine strong relationships with deliberate planning Notable Quotes “When people hear the term exit, they usually think about selling a business. Our definition of exit was slightly different from that.” — Sei Wook Kim on the definition of a founder’s exit. "The ideal successor is often already in your building. Look for proactive, low-ego team members hungry for more responsibility." — Peter Kang on identifying internal talent. "Transition timing is never perfect. You must trust your chosen leader to navigate challenges, even difficult ones you're handing over." — Sei Wook Kim on navigating the handoff during a crisis. “As founders in a business for more than a decade and a half, there's a lot of little things that we take for granted. Little activities that we were just doing on autopilot. We spent a lot of time kind of mapping out all these things.” — Peter Kang on delegation of marketing, HR, and finance. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38509205
info_outline
A Lightweight Agency Partnerships Program That Actually Works | EP 12
10/01/2025
A Lightweight Agency Partnerships Program That Actually Works | EP 12
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dive into the practicalities of building a partnerships program for resource-constrained agencies. They argue that you don't need a dedicated partnerships team to start seeing significant benefits from strategic alliances. Peter and Sei-Wook outline a step-by-step, lightweight approach to identifying the right partners, from complementary agencies and tech platforms to fractional consultants. They explain how to build genuine relationships, properly vet potential partners to protect your reputation, and set up simple systems for tracking and incentives. The conversation also covers the critical mindset shift required, which is focusing on giving value first to build "relationship capital" rather than just chasing referral commissions. If you've considered partnerships but feel overwhelmed by the complexity, this episode provides a clear, actionable framework to start small, stay consistent, and build a powerful network that drives high-quality leads and strengthens your agency's ecosystem. Key Moments 1. Defining agency partnerships: The different types of partners and why they matter. 2. The case for a lightweight approach: How to start a partnerships motion without a dedicated lead. 3. Step one: How to strategically select your first 5-10 target partners. 4. Building real relationships: The importance of consistent touchpoints and going deep with a few. 5. Protecting your reputation: How to properly vet agency partners before making referrals. 6. Incentives simplified: A standard model for referral commissions and why trust matters more than money. 7. The "give first" principle: Why sending leads to others is the surest way to become top-of-mind. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Start small. Focus on building deep relationships with 5-10 key partners rather than managing a huge, shallow list. 2. Your reputation is on the line with every referral. Vet partners through small projects or client feedback before going all-in. 3. A standard, simple commission structure (like 10% of collected revenue for 12 months) keeps administration lightweight. 4. Track partnerships with simple tools like spreadsheets; you don't need complex software to get started. 5. The goal is a two-way street. You can't just ask for leads; you must actively send opportunities to your partners. 6. Keep your team in the loop. Visibility into partnerships ensures everyone can leverage these relationships in client work. 7. Success isn't just leads received; track the leads you send out, as this builds relationship capital for the future. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: The value of a lightweight partnerships program 01:05 – What types of partners should an agency consider? 02:00 – The first step: Defining and prioritizing a shortlist of partners 03:26 – Going deep: Building real relationships with key people 04:35 – Maintaining visibility: Cadence, events, and keeping your team informed 07:05 – The critical importance of vetting agency partners 08:21 – When partnerships go wrong: Protecting your reputation 09:42 – Incentives and commissions: Keeping the structure simple 12:32 – Tracking partnerships and measuring success 14:47 – The "give first" principle: Why sending leads is crucial 15:46 – How to manage partner capacity and have backups 16:36 – Key metrics to track for a partnerships program 18:19 – Unlocking the next level: What a mature program looks like 19:52 – Actionable first steps: Your targeted partner list and one-pager Notable Quotes "Start out defining who the partners could be... it doesn't need to be a huge list. Just thinking about the few, maybe five to 10 partners that are in your ecosystem." — Sei Wook Kim on starting with focus. "You are putting your reputation on the line by recommending somebody, so it's not something to take lightly... no amount of money makes it worthwhile to jeopardize your reputation in this way." — Peter Kang on the stakes of vetting partners. “ Go deep, really understand the people at these partners. Spend time too, so that they understand what you do and how you can help them, and how they can help you.” — Sei Wook Kim on building relationships one at a time. “ You can't just go around and be like, ‘Hey, I'll pay you 10%, 15% if you give us a lead and then sign a bunch of those and then expect the leads to flow in.’ It never quite works that way.” — Peter Kang on mistakes of tracking leads. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38420555
info_outline
Key Metrics for Agencies: What to Track for Better Decisions | EP 11
09/26/2025
Key Metrics for Agencies: What to Track for Better Decisions | EP 11
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim cut through the noise of data overload to share the essential metrics every agency should track. Moving beyond fancy dashboards, they break down the handful of key performance indicators (KPIs) that truly drive informed decision-making at their portfolio agencies under Barrel Holdings. Peter and Sei-Wook explain the critical difference between lag measures (reporting on the past) and lead measures (predicting the future), providing a clear framework for both. They dive deep into core financial metrics like revenue mix, gross margin, and EBITDA, and operational essentials like utilization and pipeline health. They also share practical advice on avoiding common pitfalls, like making hasty decisions based on unverified forecast data or tracking too many meaningless numbers. Whether you're drowning in spreadsheets or flying blind, this episode offers a pragmatic, battle-tested approach to measuring what matters, so you can focus on growing a healthier, more profitable agency. Key Moments 1. Why less is more: The danger of tracking everything and the power of a simplified dashboard. 2. Lag vs. Lead: Understanding the difference between historical reports and future forecasts. 3. Revenue 101: Why breaking down revenue into recurring vs. project and new vs. existing clients is crucial. 4. Gross Margin as a health check: What it says about your pricing and operational efficiency. 5. The story behind EBITDA: How to interpret SG&A costs and strategic investments. 6. Utilization deep dive: Why targets vary by role and how to forecast future capacity. 7. The art of the pipeline: Tracking leads, proposals, win rates, and converting it into a weighted revenue forecast. 8. Secondary metrics worth a glance: Accounts receivable aging, client concentration, and net revenue retention. 9. The human side: Why employee satisfaction and retention are leading indicators of business health. 10. The litmus test: How to know if a metric is worth tracking or just becoming "wallpaper." Real Talk Takeaways 1. Data is a signal, not gospel. Never make a major decision based on a number without understanding the story behind it. 2. A signed contract doesn't equal instant revenue. A weighted pipeline that maps revenue to future months is essential for cash flow planning. 3. Utilization targets are not one-size-fits-all. They depend on role, seniority, and your agency's billing rates. 4. Profitability is a multi-layered game. You need to understand it at the project, client, and overall agency level. 5. The most important metric is the one you act on. If you're not having conversations or making decisions based on a KPI, stop tracking it. 6. Don't let perfect data paralyze you. A directional understanding of your forecast is better than no forecast at all. 7. Metrics should inform judgment, not replace it. Leadership is about interpreting the data and making the call. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: Cutting through the noise of agency metrics 00:15 – The "less is more" philosophy for agency dashboards 01:05 – Lag vs. Lead Measures: Defining historical and predictive metrics 01:20 – Lag Measure #1: Revenue (Recurring vs. Project, New vs. Existing) 02:07 – Why the recurring revenue mix is a key stability indicator 02:20 – Lag Measure #2: Gross Margin (Pricing & Operational Efficiency) 03:24 – Lag Measure #3: EBITDA (Understanding SG&A and strategic investments) 04:17 – Lag Measure #4: Utilization (Targets by role and discipline) 05:24 – What is a "good" utilization rate? (Spoiler: It depends) 05:40 – Shifting to Lead Measures: Forecasting the future 05:48 – Lead Measure #1: Forecasted Utilization (Avoiding capacity cliffs) 06:48 – The critical step: Verifying forecast data with your team before acting 07:23 – Why you must look beyond the next two weeks in your forecast 08:27 – Lead Measure #2: Pipeline (Leads, proposals, win rates, and value) 09:33 – The importance of tracking new work from existing clients 10:12 – How to build a "Weighted Pipeline" to forecast committed revenue 11:33 – The critical difference between bookings and recognized revenue 12:46 – How a signed mega-deal can still leave you in a cash flow drought 13:00 – How pipeline forecasts impact hiring decisions and gross margins 13:47 – Secondary Metrics: The supporting cast of data 14:04 – Accounts Receivable Aging: The cash flow reality check 14:28 – Client Concentration: Measuring your biggest risk 14:50 – Net Revenue Retention: The ultimate test of client growth 15:56 – Why employee satisfaction and retention are business health metrics 17:12 – Project & Client Profitability: Learning from past engagements 18:13 – The final word: If you don't act on it, don't track it 18:39 – The "wallpaper" test for metrics 19:33 – Finding the right cadence for each metric (weekly, monthly, quarterly) 19:52 – Wrap-up: Metrics inform judgment, they don't replace it Notable Quotes "It's very easy to go overboard, just start tracking everything you can... there's actually benefit to having less." – Peter Kang on simplifying your dashboard. "Metrics can be lag measures... reporting on what happened in the past versus lead measures, which you're trying to project the future." – Sei Wook Kim on the two types of data. "Gross margin... reflects how profitable are the projects that we're running. It speaks to operational efficiency." – Peter Kang on the story behind the number. "Any of these things... it's making sure the data is correct before making any decisions on it." – Sei Wook Kim on the danger of unverified forecasts. "A signed contract for a $500k project sounds great, but if it doesn't start for months, you still might be in a drought and be in trouble." – Peter Kang on the difference between bookings and cash flow. "Metrics are... it shouldn't replace judgment. You have to look at this and decide is it telling you the right thing." – Sei Wook Kim on the role of leadership in interpreting data. Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38339645
info_outline
Why Agencies Lose Clients (and How to Stop It) | EP 10
09/24/2025
Why Agencies Lose Clients (and How to Stop It) | EP 10
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dive deep into one of the most painful but inevitable aspects of running an agency: client churn. Drawing from decades of experience building and scaling agencies, they break down the most common reasons clients leave—from poor onboarding and missed deadlines to unresponsive communication and misaligned expectations. Peter and Sei-Wook share candid stories from their own agency, Barrel, including how they’ve lost clients due to everything from quality control issues and ego-driven interactions to market downturns and internal stakeholder changes. They also offer practical advice on how to strengthen client relationships, improve retention, and build an agency that’s resilient to turnover. Whether you’re struggling with client satisfaction, fearing an upcoming renewal, or just want to build stickier relationships, this episode is packed with actionable insights to help you diagnose and fix the leaks in your client bucket. Key Moments 1. Why client retention is the hidden engine of agency growth (and profitability). 2. How poor onboarding can kill a relationship before the work even begins. 3. The real cost of missed deadlines and unpolished deliverables. 4. Why unresponsive communication is often the first sign of trouble. 5. How to handle new stakeholders (and why it’s like re-pitching your agency). 6. The danger of ego and defensiveness in client feedback conversations. 7. Why scope creep and surprise invoices erode trust, and how to prevent them. 8. How to demonstrate value so clients see you as an investment, not an expense. 9. What to do when market conditions shift or clients bring work in-house. 10. Why flexibility in pricing and process can save (or sink) a relationship. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Client acquisition is expensive. Retention is how you grow. 2. Communication isn’t optional; it’s the foundation of trust. 3. Speed matters. Slow responses signal you don’t care. 4. Your ego is not worth losing a client over. Stay humble. 5. Value isn’t what you deliver, it’s what the client perceives. 6. Market conditions change. Your flexibility can be a differentiator. 7.Always assume other agencies are pitching your client. Prove your value daily. Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: Why client retention matters 01:29 – The “leaky bucket” analogy for agency growth 02:20 – Reason #1: Poor onboarding & mismanaged expectations 04:17 – A real-life example of how fumbled onboarding cost a client 04:36 – Reason #2: Missed deadlines 05:29 – Reason #3: Poor quality control 07:39 – Reason #4: Unresponsive account management 09:56 – How silence can sabotage even “good” relationships 11:04 – Reason #5: New stakeholder changes 12:12 – How to treat new stakeholders like a new pitch 13:04 – Reason #6: Misaligned communication style & tone 14:26 – Why response speed can make or break trust 15:39 – Reason #7: Ego & defensiveness 16:44 – Reason #8: Cost creep without justification 18:53 – How to train your team on scope management 20:06 – Reason #9: Perceived lack of value 22:01 – Reason #10: Rigid pricing models 22:47 – A story about how rigidity cost a 7-figure opportunity 23:42 – Reason #11: M&A events (client or agency side) 26:06 – How an acquisition announcement led to immediate churn 27:09 – Reason #12: Market conditions & how to adapt 28:28 – Why you should never let receivables slide—even in a downturn 29:17 – Reason #13: Another agency offers a better value prop 30:48 – How a CEO’s retreat led to a competitor sneaking in 31:25 – Reason #14: In-house resourcing 32:29 – How to stay valuable even when clients build internal teams 33:31 – Wrap-up: Retention is everything Notable Quotes “Client acquisition can get pretty expensive if you have to do it over and over again.” “The moment there’s a mismatch in communication speed, you get instant erosion of trust.” “Your ego is not worth losing a client over. Stay humble.” “If you’re fixated on a specific pricing model, clients will say, ‘That doesn’t work for us.’” “Always assume other agencies are pitching your client. You have to prove your value every day.” Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38339530
info_outline
How to Design Your Agency Org Chart for Sustainable Growth | EP 9
09/10/2025
How to Design Your Agency Org Chart for Sustainable Growth | EP 9
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim pull back the curtain on one of the most critical yet often overlooked aspects of scaling an agency: organizational design. Starting from their own early days as a flat, "all-hands-on-deck" team, they trace the evolution of their org chart at Barrel as they grew, specialized roles, and built departments. Peter and Sei-Wook discuss the telltale signs that it's time to add structure, from the need for career paths and mentorship to managing increasing project complexity. They share practical advice on how founders can be more deliberate about org design, including the powerful exercise of visualizing your current and future org chart. They also get real about the challenges of scaling up and down, the pitfalls of over-specializing too early, and how to define leadership roles that match your agency's current stage of growth. Whether you're a solo founder feeling the strain or a growing team struggling with blurred lines, this episode offers a clear framework for building an intentional and effective organizational structure. Key Moments 1. The early days: Why flat orgs work (until they don't). 2. The catalyst for change: Needing career paths, mentorship, and clear leadership. 3. How project complexity forces specialization and new roles (PMs, QA, Strategists). 4. The pitfall of over-specializing and bloating project teams without budget support. 5. The danger of "orphaned" roles that report directly to founders. 6. Step 1: Understanding your own strengths and weaknesses as a founder. 7. Step 2: The power of visualizing your org chart to identify gaps and stragglers. 8. Step 3: Using the org chart as a strategic tool for future hiring and growth. 9. The hard reality: Scaling your org down in times of revenue decline. 10. Defining leadership roles: "Player-Coach" vs. "General Manager" at different stages. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Your org chart is a strategic tool, not an HR formality. Visualizing it is the first step to intentional growth. 2. Not all specialization is good. Adding roles increases overhead; it must be supported by project budgets and volume. 3. Founders must learn to let go. The goal is to move from being a "player" to a "GM" who focuses on org design and hiring. 4. Business isn't always up and to the right. You must be willing to dismantle roles you worked hard to build when revenue contracts. 5. Hire leaders for the stage you're in. A "Director" at a 20-person agency needs to be hands-on, not just managerial. 6. Clarity is kindness. Clear role definitions, career progressions, and reporting lines build trust and accountability. 7. The ultimate leverage for a founder is designing an org where the right people are in the right seats. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:06 – Why org design is a recurring pain point for scaling agencies 00:39 – The early days: Fluid roles, flat structures, and everyone wearing multiple hats 01:33 – The turning point: Needing structure for career growth and mentorship 02:10 – How project complexity (bigger teams, more disciplines) forces org evolution 03:43 – The transition: Creating departments, defining roles, and establishing leadership 05:48 – The double-edged sword of specialization: Efficiency vs. overhead & silos 07:24 – The critical link between project budgets, team size, and agency margins 08:11 – The problem of "orphaned" roles that lack a clear reporting line 09:00 – Advice for founders: How to start being deliberate about org design 10:00 – Step 1: Map your current org chart to visualize reporting lines and gaps 11:00 – Step 2: Create a future org chart to plan hires and growth deliberately 12:22 – Integrating org design with performance management and career progression 13:29 – How org design gave the founders the confidence to exit day-to-day operations 14:17 – The hardest part: Letting go, trusting your team, and allowing them to learn 14:46 – The founder's evolution: From "player" to "General Manager" 16:05 – The reality check: Scaling your org down during stagnant or declining revenue 17:04 – The sunken cost fallacy: Why you can't cling to overhead roles in a downturn 19:22 – Strategies for contracting: Transparency, fractional roles, and re-consolidating hats 20:13 – Defining leadership: "Player-Coach" vs. "General Manager" at different scales 22:47 – How to think about a leader's utilization and their impact on the entire team 23:19 – Wrap-up: The importance of intentional org design Notable Quotes "The org chart was very flat... it became unclear who reports to whom, what everyone's responsibility is." "Effective org design needs to also reflect the type of work that you do and the way that your project or engagement teams are constructed." "Once we started using the org chart as a tool, it was really helpful... we started having discussions around job descriptions, who reports to who, and how we measure success." "The first thing for a founder is understanding your own strengths and weaknesses." "As the founder, the leader, you're really trying to get to a point where your main lever of impact is the org design and then recruiting the right people and holding them accountable to results." "Business isn't always up and to the right... you may need to make changes in the business that are kinda the opposite of what you put in place." "You almost have to kind of see the warning signs, make the decisive move to slim it down... you can't cling to the facade of the infrastructure you built." "It's always a balance, but just understanding... how are they using their time and what's the best use of their energy." Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38158655
info_outline
Why & How to Prune Your Client Roster for Agency Growth | EP 8
09/02/2025
Why & How to Prune Your Client Roster for Agency Growth | EP 8
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dive into one of the most challenging but necessary decisions agency leaders face: when and how to let go of clients. As agencies grow, not every client remains a good fit. Peter and Sei-Wook break down the key factors to consider when evaluating your client roster, from strategic alignment and profitability to relationship quality and payment behavior. They share real-world examples from their own experiences at Barrel, including how shifting their focus to Shopify-led projects meant parting ways with clients on other platforms. They also tackle tough topics like dealing with unprofitable accounts, managing difficult client relationships, and knowing when to walk away from a high-risk engagement. Whether you're struggling with client concentration, operational overload, or simply want to build a more intentional client portfolio, this episode offers a practical framework for making proactive, strategic decisions that support long-term agency health. Key Moments 1. Why “pruning” your client list is essential for sustainable growth. 2. How to assess strategic fit using your Ideal Client Profile (ICP). 3. When to prioritize profitability over revenue. 4. Evaluating account expansion potential vs. dead-end relationships. 5. The role of relationship quality and access to decision-makers. 6. Red flags in client payment behavior and how to respond. 7. Managing operational load and protecting team morale. 8. Weighing the marketing value of a client (case studies, brand credibility). 9. Understanding risk factors like client concentration and legal exposure. 10. Knowing when to bow out of a project, even after it’s started. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Not all revenue is good revenue. Unprofitable clients can drain resources and morale. 2. Strategic fit matters. Align your client roster with where you’re going, not where you’ve been. 3. Payment behavior is a leading indicator of respect, and risk. 4. Protect your team. Difficult clients can cause burnout and turnover. 5. Sometimes the best business decision is to fire a client. 6. Leaders must own the tough calls. Don’t push them down to the team. 7. Risk isn’t always financial, reputational and legal risks can be just as damaging. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:19 – Why agencies need to regularly assess client fit 01:35 – The tree-pruning analogy for agency growth 01:56 – Factor #1: Strategic fit & Ideal Client Profile (ICP) 03:46 – Barrel’s experience with platform fragmentation 04:45 – Factor #2: Gross margin & profitability 06:15 – The trap of “ossified” unprofitable relationships 07:31 – Factor #3: Account expansion potential 08:55 – How to allocate resources based on growth potential 10:18 – Factor #4: Relationship quality & access to decision-makers 12:19 – When bad behavior justifies ending a relationship 13:21 – Factor #5: Payment behavior & red flags 15:06 – Why agencies aren’t banks—setting payment boundaries 17:55 – Factor #6: Operational load & team impact 21:06 – How to give feedback to high-maintenance clients 22:56 – The leadership decision to protect the team 24:04 – Factor #7: Case study & marketing value 25:51 – When you can’t talk about the work (e.g., Apple) 27:01 – Factor #8: Risk (concentration, reputation, legal) 28:37 – Reputational risks and company values 29:49 – When to walk away from an oversold project 31:04 – Wrap-up: Making proactive decisions for growth Notable Quotes “They are the people that are paying you now and are supporting your business, but that doesn’t mean they’re the right fit for the next phase of your growth.” “Agencies are not banks. We’re not here to lend unlimited credit to our clients.” “If you don’t make the decision, it could cause burnout turnover. If you do make a quick decision, you can build a lot of trust.” “Not every client needs to be a case study, but every client should align with your values and operational sanity.” “Sometimes it’s better to bow out and take the hit immediately versus a much bigger problem down the road.” Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/38059040
info_outline
10 Essential Habits for Running a Successful Agency | EP 7
08/26/2025
10 Essential Habits for Running a Successful Agency | EP 7
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dive into the core habits that have driven their agencies’ success over the years. From structured team reviews and client communications to proactive outreach and financial discipline, they break down 10 essential routines (plus a few bonus ones) that help agencies improve continuously, stay aligned, and grow sustainably. Peter and Sei-Wook share personal stories and practical advice on implementing habits like After Action Reviews, weekly biz dev meetings, monthly newsletters, and quarterly business reviews. They also explore how these habits compound over time, strengthen culture, prevent problems, and unlock new opportunities. Whether you’re a solo operator or leading a team, this episode offers an actionable framework to build consistency, accountability, and resilience into your agency’s DNA. Key Moments 1. How After Action Reviews turn project learnings into process improvements. 2. Why weekly business development meetings keep the pipeline full and the team aligned. 3. The role of monthly all-hands meetings in celebrating wins and maintaining morale. 4. How consistent weekly outreach emails can lead to multi-million dollar opportunities. 5. Using monthly newsletters to stay top-of-mind with clients and partners. 6. The importance of weekly client account check-ins to anticipate issues and opportunities. 7. How Quarterly Business Reviews (QBRs) deepen client relationships and unlock growth. 8. Why “mining the bottom”—addressing underperformers—is crucial for culture. 9. The value of client feedback surveys in improving service and offering. 10. Setting and reviewing annual and quarterly goals to drive focused growth. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Habits compound. Small, consistent actions lead to big results over time. 2. Debrief everything. Learning from wins and losses prevents repeat mistakes. 3. Outreach is everything. Relationships built today can save your business tomorrow. 4. Culture is performance. Tolerating underperformers drags everyone down. 5. Goals need rhythm. Annual vision without quarterly check-ins is just a wishlist. 6. Cashflow isn’t optional. Weekly finance reviews prevent surprises. 7. Always be recruiting. Even if you’re not hiring, stay connected to talent. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:52 – Habit #1: After Action Reviews 02:32 – Habit #2: Weekly Business Development Meetings 04:39 – Habit #3: Monthly Team Meetings 06:46 – Habit #4: Weekly Outreach Emails 09:42 – Habit #5: Monthly Newsletter Emails 11:39 – Habit #6: Weekly Client Account Check-Ins 14:00 – Habit #7: Quarterly Business Reviews (QBRs) 17:21 – Habit #8: Mining the Bottom (Performance Management) 19:44 – Habit #9: Client Feedback Surveys 21:25 – Habit #10: Annual & Quarterly Goal Setting 24:18 – Bonus Habits: Weekly Finance Reviews, Org Chart Reviews, Always Be Recruiting, Utilization & Forecasting 31:30 – Wrap-up and where to learn more Notable Quotes “A lot of what makes agencies successful are not just one-off big actions, but consistent activities that compound over time.” “The weekly outreach email is a multi-million dollar habit.” “If you’re allowing underperformers to continue, you’re dragging the entire culture down.” “Reserves aren’t for funding losses, they’re for timing mismatches.” “Goals without a plan are just a wishlist. You have to work backwards from the number.” Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/37959295
info_outline
How Much Cash Should Your Agency Keep on Hand? | EP 6
08/19/2025
How Much Cash Should Your Agency Keep on Hand? | EP 6
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim talk about the critical yet often overlooked topic of cashflow management for agencies. They share lessons on balancing profitability with liquidity, designing client contracts to align cash inflows with outflows, and determining the right amount of cash reserves to weather uncertainties. From the pitfalls of 50/50 payment structures to the advantages of retainer-based models, Peter and Sei-Wook explore practical strategies to avoid cash crunches. They also discuss the emotional and financial challenges of using reserves to sustain operations during downturns, the role of insurance and credit lines as safety nets, and how centralized cashflow management works in a multi-agency portfolio. Whether you're a solo founder or managing multiple agencies, this episode offers actionable insights to build a financially resilient business. Key Moments 1. Why a profitable P&L doesn’t always mean money in the bank. 2. How lumpy payment structures can create cashflow nightmares. 3. Shifting to frequent, project-aligned invoicing to smooth cashflow. 4. Why retainers create positive cash conversion cycles. 5. How much cash to hold (1–6 months of expenses) and when to distribute profits. 6. The risks of over-relying on cash buffers to delay tough decisions. 7. Building granular cashflow projections to avoid insolvency. 8. Centralized finance strategies for portfolio businesses. 9. Insurance, credit lines, and owner investments as backup plans. Real Talk Takeaways 1. Profit isn’t equal to Cash. Accrual accounting masks timing mismatches between revenue and actual payments. 2. Design payments like payroll…invoice frequently to mirror when work is done, not when projects end. 3. Retainers are KING. They provide float by collecting cash before incurring expenses. 4. Hoarding cash can mask operational inefficiencies. 5. Cut costs early. Delaying tough decisions burns reserves faster than expected. 6. Insure against disasters…legal liabilities can dwarf cash reserves overnight. 7. Credit Lines = Emergency use only. It is cheaper to use your own cash than pay high interest. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:52 – The disconnect between P&L profitability and bank balances 02:40 – How 50/50 payment structures create cash gaps 04:27 – Best practices: Frequent invoicing and expense matching 06:33 – Retainer models and the power of positive float 08:07 – Handling prepayments (don’t treat them as instant profit!) 09:15 – How much cash to hold (1–6 months of expenses) 12:04 – The emotional dilemma: Using reserves to save jobs vs. facing reality 15:12 – The lifesaving role of granular cashflow forecasting 18:30 – Multi-agency cashflow: Centralized reserves and holding company strategies 20:29 – Insurance and credit lines as last-resort safeguards 24:04 – Final advice: Keep 1–6 months of cash, separate reserves from growth investments Notable Quotes "Cash is the lifeline of whether you can run your business day to day." "On paper, you might have amazing profits, but the bank account tells a different story." "If you’re paying team members before clients pay you, you’re playing with fire." "Reserves aren’t for funding losses, they’re for timing mismatches." "A lawsuit could tank not just your cash, but your entire business." Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/37877950
info_outline
How We’d Generate Leads If We Started Our Agency Today | EP 5
08/12/2025
How We’d Generate Leads If We Started Our Agency Today | EP 5
In this episode, hosts Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim take listeners on a journey back to their agency's origins, sharing hard-won insights about building a business from scratch with limited connections and resources. They explore the strategies that helped them jumpstart Barrel 19 years ago, from leveraging personal networks to building lasting client relationships that compound over time. The conversation covers everything from their early days doing pro bono work for nonprofits to developing systematic approaches for staying top-of-mind with past clients and building referral networks. They also discuss the importance of treating every client engagement, regardless of budget, as a premium experience that can lead to future opportunities. Whether you're starting an agency from zero or looking to revitalize your lead generation, this episode offers actionable strategies for building sustainable business growth through relationships and consistent execution. Key Moments 1. How accepting any paying work helped build their initial portfolio 2. Why treating free work like premium engagements pays dividends 3. Leveraging Korean-American nonprofits and Columbia connections for early opportunities 4. How Silicon Alley networking opened doors to new partnerships 5. Creating mutually beneficial relationships with complementary agencies 6. How one satisfied client can multiply into multiple referrals over time 7. The weekly habit that saved their business during a revenue shortfall 8. Why aligning with growing tech platforms like Shopify creates tailwinds Real Talk Takeaways 1. Every client is a marketing investment. Deliver premium experiences regardless of budget size. 2. Relationships compound over decades...people you meet today may become major clients years later. 3. In-person connections still matter. Virtual networking can't fully replace face-to-face relationship building. 4. Consistency beats intensity. Regular weekly outreach trumps sporadic burst efforts. 5. Diversify your lead sources…don't put all eggs in one referral basket. 6. Documentation drives visibility. Invest time in case studies and sharing your work. 7. Platform timing matters! Getting in early with growing tech platforms can provide significant advantages. Timestamps00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:26 – The origin story: starting Barrel 19 years ago fresh out of college with no connections 02:18 – Strategic pro bono work: using nonprofit projects to access seasoned professionals 04:24 – Treating low-budget and pro bono clients with premium service as marketing investment 07:46 – The reality check: building networks takes years, not months 09:22 – The irreplaceable value of in-person relationship building 10:46 – Building referral networks with complementary agencies 15:05 – Systematic relationship maintenance: weekly outreach to past connections 20:03 – Platform partnerships: the Shopify success story and partnership team relationships 23:54 – The foundation principle: none of this works without excellent client delivery Notable Quotes "Just because somebody is paying you nothing or little doesn't mean you should give them a less than premium experience." "The best form of marketing is a happy customer." "If you start doing it when you need it, then it's probably too late at that point." Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/37709630
info_outline
How Specialization Impacts Your Agency’s Growth, Margins, and Valuation | EP 4
08/05/2025
How Specialization Impacts Your Agency’s Growth, Margins, and Valuation | EP 4
In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim dive deep into agency specialization and how narrowing focus has become a key driver of growth across their Barrel Holdings portfolio. From the evolution of Barrel's journey from generalist to CPG eCommerce specialists, to the strategic positioning of BX Studio as Webflow experts, they share practical insights on when and how to specialize. They explore the trade-offs between being a full-service generalist versus developing deep expertise in specific verticals or capabilities. The conversation covers real-world examples of how specialization leads to stronger client relationships, higher margins, and better valuations - while addressing the practical realities of when to take work outside your niche. You'll get actionable frameworks for identifying specialization opportunities, plus book recommendations from industry thought leaders who've shaped their approach to positioning and expertise development. Key Moments 1. Defining specialization vs. positioning: internal expertise vs. external messaging 2. The generalist trap: why being everything to everyone limits impact 3. Barrel's evolution from investment bank + nail salon clients to CPG eCommerce focus 4. How platform specialization (Shopify) created competitive advantage 5. Adding vertical focus (CPG food & beverage) for deeper differentiation 6. BX Studio's Webflow expertise and potential hospitality vertical expansion 7. The business case for specialization: retention, pricing power, and margins Real Talk Takeaways 1. Specialization builds trust. Clients choose agencies that have solved their exact problems before. 2. Pattern matching accelerates results. Deep expertise means faster problem-solving and better outcomes. 3. You can still take other work. Specialization is about positioning, not absolute exclusion. 4. Look for clusters in your client base. Your next specialization might already be hiding in your portfolio. 5. Small agencies need focus more than large ones. Scale can compensate for generalization, but boutique agencies need differentiation. 6. Specialized agencies command higher multiples. Better margins and client retention directly impact valuations. Timestamps00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:18 – Defining specialization: internal expertise vs. external positioning 01:47 – Why specialization matters: the generalist agency trade-offs 04:50 – Barrel's specialization journey: from generalist to CPG eCommerce experts 07:26 – Can you take work outside your specialization? 09:58 – Moving toward specialization: practical tips for generalist agencies 12:37 – Why Barrel Holdings focuses on specialized agencies 15:03 – Book recommendations for agency positioning and specialization Notable Quotes "Specialization is really about defining what you're gonna master as a business." "There's bound to be clusters where you've done something more than once, and then from there, understanding how you can go deeper." "Specialization offers a degree of durability and profitability that drives value." Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn: "The Business of Expertise" by David C. Baker "Anyone, Not Everyone" by Corey Quinn "Positioning for Professionals" by Tim Williams
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/37677315
info_outline
Are You Calculating Your Agency’s Profits Correctly? | EP 3
07/15/2025
Are You Calculating Your Agency’s Profits Correctly? | EP 3
In this episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim tackle one of the most confusing aspects of agency financials: how to properly calculate profitability. They break down the critical difference between SDE (Seller's Discretionary Earnings) and EBITDA, explaining why these metrics can paint vastly different pictures of the same business. Using concrete examples and spreadsheet walkthroughs, they demonstrate how owner salary calculations can dramatically impact reported profitability margins…sometimes swinging from 15% to 40% depending on how compensation is structured. This episode is essential for any agency owner who wants to understand their true financial performance and how acquirers evaluate businesses. You'll learn why a "normalized" view of profitability matters, how replacement cost thinking changes valuation conversations, and why scale affects the relationship between owner compensation and overall margins. Key Moments 1. Defining SDE vs. EBITDA and why the distinction matters for agency owners 2. Breaking down a sample P&L to show real-world profitability calculations 3. How owner salary manipulation can inflate or deflate EBITDA percentages 4. The "replacement cost" framework for normalizing owner compensation 5. Why these calculations become less volatile as agencies scale to $10M+ revenue 6. How Barrel Holdings adjusts for owner salary when evaluating acquisitions 7. The importance of understanding your true role and replacement value Real Talk Takeaways 1. SDE includes owner compensation; EBITDA doesn't - know which metric you're using 2. Owner salary swings can create 10-20% margin differences in smaller agencies 3. Replacement cost thinking is key…what would you pay someone to do your job? 4. Scale reduces volatility - larger agencies see smaller percentage swings from owner comp 5. Normalize before you negotiate. Buyers will adjust your numbers anyway 6. 40% "profit" might actually be 25% EBITDA when properly calculated 7. Context matters. Highly involved owners need higher replacement cost estimates Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:18 – Why profitability discussions often aren't apples-to-apples comparisons 00:44 – Defining SDE (Seller's Discretionary Earnings) vs. EBITDA 01:12 – The importance of understanding these different calculation methods 01:59 – Walking through concrete spreadsheet examples 02:11 – Sample P&L breakdown: $1M revenue agency with $500K COGS 02:35 – What constitutes COGS in an agency business 03:10 – SG&A expenses and how owner salary factors into calculations 03:56 – SDE calculation: adding back owner salary for 40% margin 04:26 – Why owners might take distributions instead of fixed salaries 05:18 – EBITDA scenarios: how different owner salaries create different margins 06:11 – The "too low" scenario: $65K salary inflating EBITDA to 33.5% 06:40 – The "too high" scenario: $250K salary depressing EBITDA to 15% 07:48 – How Barrel Holdings normalizes owner salary for fair comparisons 08:23 – The replacement cost framework for owner compensation 09:27 – Adjusting EBITDA calculations based on realistic replacement costs 11:01 – Why Barrel Holdings requires 15% EBITDA using their calculation method 11:45 – How these calculations change dramatically at scale 12:19 – $10M revenue example: why percentages converge at larger scale 13:20 – When owner salary becomes negligible in large, structured agencies 13:49 – The importance of understanding owner role and replacement cost 14:06 – Practical advice for agency owners on calculating true profitability Notable Quotes "It's not always clear what they mean. Are they talking about their profit after paying them a market salary? Are they excluding their comp? Is that inflating their numbers?" "We're really thinking about what is the replacement cost of that person and making sure that's accurately reflected in the EBITDA." "Just because your SDE is 400K doesn't mean you're pocketing 400K because there is something to be paid to Uncle Sam." Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterkang34/ Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seiwookkim/ AgencyHabits Website: https://www.agencyhabits.com/ AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/agencyhabits/ Barrel Holdings Website: https://www.barrel-holdings.com/ Barrel Holdings LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/barrel-holdings/
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/37410770
info_outline
Our Approach to Agency Acquisitions: Valuation Drivers and Deal Breakers | EP2
07/15/2025
Our Approach to Agency Acquisitions: Valuation Drivers and Deal Breakers | EP2
In this episode of Agency Habits, Peter Kang interviews Sei-Wook Kim on the inner workings of agency acquisitions and valuations at Barrel Holdings. They break down the exact criteria they use when evaluating whether to acquire an agency and explain the logic behind their valuation framework: what increases the price, what brings it down, and how seller goals shape the final deal. If you're building an agency with the intention to sell (now or years from now), this episode will help you understand how experienced buyers actually think: what they're measuring, what red flags they catch fast, and what signals a business is built to last. They also discuss the emotional side of selling, legacy, and the difference between cashing out and compounding long-term value. Key Moments 1. Why Barrel Holdings pivots between building and buying agencies 2. The evolution of their acquisition criteria and "buy box" parameters 3. How specialization drives both defensibility and higher valuations 4. The critical importance of recurring revenue and client diversification 5. Why proprietary technology can actually hurt agency valuations 6. How seller motivations dramatically impact deal structure and pricing 7. The emotional side of agency sales and preserving legacy Real Talk Takeaways 1. Recurring revenue and retention unlock higher multiples. 2. Agencies with clear positioning and playbooks stand out fast. 3. Client and lead source concentration are silent risks buyers notice immediately. 4. Founders who’ve stepped back (and trained successors) are more valuable. 5. Legacy matters. Some sellers will trade upside for story. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:33 – Why buy versus build? The acceleration advantage of acquisitions 02:08 – Inside Barrel Holdings' "buy box" criteria: $2-10M revenue, 15%+ EBITDA 03:23 – How deal size and structure constraints shape acquisition strategy 03:41 – The power of specialization: why niche agencies win 05:14 – Platform plays: riding the growth wave of Shopify and Webflow 05:31 – Top value drivers: what makes agencies worth more 06:44 – The importance of predictable, recurring revenue streams 07:10 – Revenue consistency vs. growth: why stable beats volatile 08:20 – Client concentration red flags: the 15-20% danger zone 09:30 – How agency reputation manifests in organic deal flow 10:08 – Business development diversification: avoiding single-source risk 10:49 – Team retention, margin efficiency, and operational excellence 12:17 – The nuance of employee retention: performance vs. loyalty 13:18 – What's less important: proprietary tech and unsustainable growth 16:07 – How seller goals affect valuation and deal structure 17:37 – Risk pricing: why seller involvement impacts multiples 18:28 – The emotional side: legacy, brand preservation, and life circumstances 20:26 – Wrapping up: the complexity beyond pure numbers Notable Quotes "Consistency helps give us the confidence that future years will look like the past years." “Specialization isn’t just for SEO, it’s your valuation strategy.” “High revenue with low margin? That’s not scale, it’s a red flag.” “Legacy isn't soft. It shapes how sellers price the future.” “The emotional story behind the numbers tells us more than the deck ever will.” Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterkang34/ Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seiwookkim/ AgencyHabits Website: https://www.agencyhabits.com/ AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/agencyhabits/ Barrel Holdings Website: https://www.barrel-holdings.com/ Barrel Holdings LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/barrel-holdings/
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/37410760
info_outline
The Barrel Holdings Origin Story: Building a Portfolio of Agencies | EP 1
07/15/2025
The Barrel Holdings Origin Story: Building a Portfolio of Agencies | EP 1
In this inaugural episode, Peter Kang and Sei-Wook Kim share the unfiltered origin story behind Barrel Holdings. From their humble beginnings building table-based websites in college to growing a multi-agency portfolio serving CPG brands, startups, and enterprise clients, this conversation charts nearly two decades of lessons in agency building, client service, and entrepreneurial evolution. They walk us through key inflection points: like quitting Wall Street, bootstrapping through Craigslist hires, launching Barrel, and ultimately spinning off multiple high-performing specialized agencies. You’ll also get a behind-the-scenes look at their first acquisition and why they’ve committed to a long-term, compounding approach to holding company success. Key Moments 1. How a student club and side hustle led to a full-time agency career 2. What triggered the shift from full-service to eComm & Shopify specialization 3. Why spinning off legacy clients into Vaulted Oak became a lightbulb moment 4. The strategic difference between launching vs. acquiring agencies 5. How handing off CEO roles created operational leverage and personal peace 6. Their investment thesis: small, durable, cash-flowing specialist agencies 7. Why “focus” is the most underrated agency growth strategy Real Talk Takeaways 1. Cash flow is the new growth. The best agency is a durable one. 2. Don’t cling to legacy clients, spin them off and build anew. 3. Leadership handoff works...if you prepare for it years in advance. 4. Platform plays (Shopify, Webflow) can be major growth engines. 5. A great operator is your biggest unlock post-acquisition. Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to Agency Habits 00:35 – How Peter & Wook started freelancing in college 02:40 – Quitting Lehman to go full-time with Barrel 05:00 – The iPad-era boom and scaling through partnerships 07:09 – Betting early on Shopify & selling themes 09:30 – Launching Vaulted Oak to support legacy clients 12:00 – Webflow’s rise & the BX Studio playbook 16:41 – Spinning up Bolster and appointing Barrel’s new CEO 21:23 – Their first acquisition: the story of Catalog 26:23 – Inside the Barrel Holdings portfolio strategy 35:23 – Why long-term cashflow matters more than quick exits 38:19 – Building community and future plans for Agency Habits Notable Quotes “The power of focus became crystal clear the moment we handed off CEO to someone who could give 100%.” “We weren’t tired or burnt out after 18 years. We wanted to go deeper.” “If the structure is right, the business runs better. Period.” Links & Resources Peter Kang on LinkedIn: Sei-Wook on LinkedIn: AgencyHabits Website: AgencyHabits on LinkedIn: Barrel Holdings Website: Barrel Holdings LinkedIn:
/episode/index/show/91f58842-b9cc-4136-9b29-8c33be6572b9/id/37410730