Azure & DevOps Podcast

The Azure & DevOps Podcast is a show for developers and devops professionals shipping software using Microsoft technologies. Each show brings you hard-hitting interviews with industry experts innovating better methods and sharing success stories. Listen in to learn how to increase quality, ship quickly, and operate well. Hosted by Jeffrey Palermo and sponsored by Clear Measure, Inc.

Savino Carlone: ERP Systems - Episode 391 03/02/2026

Paul Duvall: AI-Driven Development - Episode 390 02/23/2026

Damian Brady: GitHub AI - Episode 389 02/16/2026

David Starr: DevOps Success Story - Episode 388 02/09/2026

Kevin Griffin: Engineering for System Uptime - Episode 387 02/02/2026

Maddy Montaquila: .NET Update - Episode 386 01/26/2026

Graham McMillan: Database DevOps - Episode 385 01/19/2026

Carola Lilienthal and Henning Schwentner: Domain-Driven Transformation - Episode 384 01/12/2026

AD 2025 - The Year of AI-Driven Development – Looking Ahead to 2026 - Episode 383 01/05/2026

Scott Hanselman: The Future of Software Engineering - Episode 382 12/29/2025

Glenn Condron: Aspire Strategy for .NET - Episode 381 12/22/2025

Jared Parsons: The Latest with C# - Episode 380 12/15/2025

Chris Wilke: Generated AI Stories - Episode 379 12/08/2025

Alvin Ashcraft: Community Conferences - Episode 378 12/01/2025

Dan Clarke: Personal Productivity - Episode 377 11/24/2025

Andrew Lock: Testing Frameworks - Episode 376 11/17/2025

Ben Day: SlideSpeaker.AI - Episode 375 11/10/2025

Josh Arzt: 23 Years of .NET - Episode 374 11/03/2025

Josh Arzt: 23 Years of .NET - Episode 374 Josh Arzt is a Senior Solutions Architect with 25+ years of experience modernizing systems, solving complex problems, and delivering scalable cloud solutions. He is an expert in software engineering, DevSecOps, serverless architectures, and cloud migrations. He is a certified professional with a strong publication record in IT and applied mathematics. His professional career began in the early 2000s, when he discovered .NET and all it had to offer in its early days. Using that framework, paired with his maturation in software architecture, helped shape how he approaches challenges — with curiosity, precision, and a focus on making technology practical and reliable. Along the way, he’s led teams, modernized systems, written his own software in performance metrics, and helped organizations adapt to change, but what he values most is working with people: mentoring engineers, collaborating across disciplines, and finding ways to connect technical work to real human impact. He brings both experience and perspective — the ability to see the big picture while never losing sight of the craft that drew him to this field in the first place. Josh is also a 2025-2026 board election candidate for .NET Foundation. Topics of Discussion: [2:40] Josh talks about the .NET Foundation and its importance. [7:08] A self-described dorky child, Josh recounts his early days in IT, starting with building computers as a child. [9:33] Josh describes his transition from IT support to software development, driven by his interest in problem-solving. [15:55] Josh discusses the evolution of .NET, from its early days to the current state. [30:40] The importance of choosing the right tool for the job, regardless of the programming language. [32:42] The challenges of managing tech debt and the importance of sustainability in software development. [37:28] Josh shares his positive experiences with the .NET community and the support they provide. [38:08] How thoughtful and consistent feedback shapes the evolution of the .NET ecosystem. [40:02] Continuous learning and adaptation in the field of software development. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38862315

Lee Brownhill: The Data Community - Episode 373 10/27/2025

Lee Brownhill: The Data Community - Episode 373 Lee Brownhill is a Principal Cloud DBA at Cloud Rede with deep expertise in SQL Server performance tuning and automation. With years of experience across Azure and AWS, Lee helps clients optimize their cloud data platforms. His journey began in IT support, quickly evolving into a passion for SQL Server that led him through roles as a Production and Developer DBA. Now, he’s a trusted consultant, known for making systems run faster and smarter. Lee is a Redgate Community Ambassador, a regular at SQLBits and Data Relay, and once spent a transformative week learning from T-SQL legend Itzik Ben-Gan. Whether on-prem or in the cloud, Lee’s mission is simple: make SQL Server shine. Topics of Discussion: [2:33] Lee shares his career journey, starting in general IT support and transitioning to a role involving Microsoft Dynamics NAV, which introduced him to SQL Server. [5:48] Jeffrey discusses the challenges faced by young programmers who work with databases but lack deep experience. [7:05] Lee highlights common anti-patterns in SQL Server. [8:04] The concept of “row by agonizing row.” [8:46] Lee shares his thought process when addressing performance problems in SQL Server. [9:12] Categorizing issues based on their severity and urgency using a tried-and-true checklist. [10:36] Taking a step back to look at the issue holistically before diving into specific details. [16:04] An optimal database structure and segmentation in 2025, and the importance of normalization to avoid redundant data and ensure data integrity. [20:00] The different ways to host SQL Server in Azure and the benefits of each. [23:02] Metrics for determining if an Azure SQL instance is over- or under-provisioned. [25:02] The value of Azure’s costing tools in helping to optimize resource usage and reduce costs. [26:07] The work of site reliability engineers who use KQL to analyze logs and identify issues. [30:09] Lee’s blog is a repository of technical topics, including SQL Server, performance tuning, and unit testing. [32:10] SQL Server 2025 features and the importance of learning and understanding new technologies. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38770310

Aaron Palermo: Cyber Security and Systems Engineering with AI-Driven Development - Episode 372 10/20/2025

Software Leadership with Jonathan “J.” Tower - Episode 371 10/13/2025

Software Leadership with Jonathan “J.” Tower - Episode 371 Jonathan Tower is known to friends and colleagues simply as “J.” J. is a Microsoft MVP, Telerik Developer Expert, and the founder of Trailhead Technology Partners, a global custom software consultancy. With nearly 25 years of experience in the industry, J. has held roles ranging from senior architect to director of development, and now leads a team building high-quality, large-scale applications across a wide range of technologies. J.’s technical expertise spans C#, .NET, MVC, and modern JavaScript frameworks, along with mobile app development. But what truly sets him apart is his passion for building community. He’s the driving force behind Beer City Code, Michigan’s largest software conference, and serves on the board of SoftwareGR, a nonprofit dedicated to growing the software industry in West Michigan. He’s also a frequent speaker at conferences and meetups around the world, a LinkedIn Learning course author, and a mentor to many through his work with robotics teams and local tech groups. Outside of tech, J. is an adventurer at heart. He and his family recently completed a year-long road trip across the U.S., visiting 58 of the 63 national parks. He’s also a fan of photography, hiking, reading, and catching every Best Picture nominee before the Oscars. Topics of Discussion: [3:30] Fun fact! J. has been to 58 of the 63 national parks, with his current favorite being Glacier National Park. [4:46] J. explains his early interest in creating things and his discovery of software development in middle school. [7:33] J.’s journey into leadership and consulting. [11:04] J. talks about his Blue Blazes podcast and the inspiration behind the name. [14:27] The “shiny object syndrome” and the misuse of microservices architecture. [15:06] Understanding the true needs of a project before implementing complex solutions. [21:20] AI should be viewed as a collaborative tool, not a replacement for team members. [22:51] The insight that J. got at a Ford Factory about how AI can help us shape and create jobs instead of just replacing them. [27:50] J. mentions he recently released courses on Dome Train about migrating legacy applications. [29:05] Choosing the framework that is the most similar model. [31:29] The type of traits that J. would look for in a lead engineer or a team leader. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38549220

Peter Ritchie: .NET Foundation - Episode 370 10/06/2025

Greg Leonardo: Azure and AI - Episode 369 09/29/2025

Greg Leonardo: Azure and AI - Episode 369 Greg Leonardo is a Principal Cloud Architect, Certified Azure Solution Architect Expert, and Microsoft Azure MVP with over two decades of experience driving high-impact cloud transformations for global enterprises. Greg’s work sits at the crossroads of architecture, innovation, and mentorship, where he crafts scalable, cost-efficient, and future-ready solutions that align technology with business strategy. He’s a recognized authority in Azure-native architecture, FinOps optimization, and AI integration, known for delivering measurable results—from reducing cloud spend to accelerating DevOps agility through Terraform and infrastructure as code. His leadership extends beyond technical execution, as he actively cultivates cloud talent and fosters a culture of continuous improvement. A former Gulf War veteran, Greg brings discipline, resilience, and strategic foresight to every initiative — whether building global cloud ecosystems or leading high-performance engineering teams. He’s also a passionate advocate for the cloud community, sharing insights daily through technical writing and open mentorship. Topics of Discussion: [5:46] Greg discusses his approach to AI, emphasizing responsible AI and the importance of understanding its limitations. [8:12] AI’s journey through the Hype Cycle. [11:09] Greg introduces the concept of AI as “virtual employees.” [16:44] Greg talks about how he uses both Microsoft 365 Copilot and ChatGPT Enterprise to compare their capabilities. [18:36] How Greg tests and compares AI tools. [20:21] Comparing AI to previous search and research methods. [23:31] Improving AI results through better prompts. [26:17] The agent framework, sharing, and limitations of AI agents. [36:47] AI’s ability to generate architectural diagrams. [41:49] Exploring autonomous coding agents. [41:45] Why we aren’t quite ready for the “fire and forget” side. [43:08] Struggling with the memory behind chat. [44:02] Closing thoughts — what can we expect in the future, and what are more practical applications of AI? Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38367120

John Bristowe: The Latest from Octopus Deploy - Episode 368 09/22/2025

John Bristowe: The Latest from Octopus Deploy - Episode 368 John Bristowe brings over 20 years of experience in technology to his role as Community Director at Octopus Deploy. His career includes time at Progress and Microsoft, where he developed his skills in management and technology. Known for a straightforward and engaging style, John often speaks at industry conferences, sharing practical tips and insights. John is a HashiCorp Ambassador and part of the Progress Champions program. He enjoys creating content such as articles, webinars, and podcasts, aiming to help others in the tech community. In his free time, John likes to stay informed about the latest tech developments and shares his learning with an online audience. His approach is always about sharing knowledge and learning together. Topics of Discussion: [2:47] John shares his career journey, starting at Microsoft in 2005, and his involvement in developer evangelism. [4:03] The evolution of Octopus Deploy, from an open-source project to a commercial tool. [5:47] The importance of setting up deployment pipelines and the challenges of deploying on weekends due to brittle pipelines. [6:36] Check out the Octopus Deploy roadmap for updates on new features and innovations. [9:04] The potential of AI in the deployment space and the importance of maintaining a balance between AI and human involvement. [10:46] More about Codefresh. [11:23] The integration of AI capabilities in Octopus Deploy, including the AI assistant. [15:17] Designer Experience vs. Text-Based Workflows. [24:43] Common use cases for runbooks, including server maintenance, database management, and cost management in Kubernetes. [26:22] The importance of automated health checks and runbooks for ensuring reliable and cost-effective deployments. [29:58] Platform Hub and Enterprise Scalability. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38285270

Mads Kristensen: Visual Studio 2026 - Episode 367 09/15/2025

Mads Kristensen: Visual Studio 2026 - Episode 367 Mads is a Principal Product Manager on the Visual Studio team at Microsoft, where he champions developer productivity, performance, and extensibility. With a deep passion for streamlining the development experience, Mads has created dozens of widely used Visual Studio extensions — including Web Essentials, File Nesting, and Markdown Editor v2 — and maintains the Extensibility Essentials toolkit to empower other developers to build better tools. Mads brings over a decade of experience in web development on the Microsoft platform. He is also the founder of SchemaStore.org and a home automation enthusiast. Known for his engaging presentations and hands-on insights, Mads is a frequent speaker at developer conferences worldwide. He lives in the Pacific Northwest and his mission is simple: to make Visual Studio the most delightful development environment on the planet. Topics of Discussion: [2:38] More about Mads’ career journey at Microsoft. [5:14] The new and improved Visual Studio. [7:44] Backwards compatibility is a key feature — .NET solutions will still work across different Visual Studio versions. [8:55] How Microsoft’s strategy differentiates between Visual Studio and VS Code. [10:42] Visual Studio is the premier development environment for .NET and C# on Windows, offering the most comprehensive and optimized experience. While VS Code can handle .NET development, it’s not as feature-rich or performant as the full Visual Studio. [12:58] Visual Studio has moved to a monthly release cadence to be more competitive with VS Code’s frequent updates. [13:48] Deep AI integration in Visual Studio allows for context-aware assistance, including a new profiler agent that can help optimize code performance. [23:53] Compilation performance is improved in Visual Studio 2026. [26:35] The new profiler agent can be invoked through Copilot chat, running benchmarks and suggesting performance improvements scientifically. [30:30] Developers can create custom MCP servers to integrate private systems and databases with AI tools using a project template. [35:39] The AI coding agent in Visual Studio can work autonomously or with developer supervision, creating pull requests or working alongside the developer. [39:11] Visual Studio’s Copilot can be used as a companion to bounce ideas off, helping with architectural decisions and new feature explorations. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38212880

Richard Hundhausen and Brad Frazer: Who Owns the Code? - Episode 366 09/08/2025

Richard Hundhausen and Brad Frazer: Who Owns the Code? - Episode 366 Brad Frazer is a Boise-based attorney and partner at Hawley Troxell, Idaho’s largest law firm, where he leads the Intellectual Property & Internet practice group with a specific focus in IP Strategy, AI, Data Security, and IT. A graduate of BYU, UC Hastings, and the University of Utah, Brad has decades of experience in cybersecurity, internet law, and IP, including roles as Deputy General Counsel at major tech firms. He’s also a published novelist and a recognized expert in emerging technologies like blockchain, NFTs, and Web3. Richard Hundhausen helps software organizations and teams deliver better products by understanding and leveraging Azure DevOps and Scrum. He is a Professional Scrum Trainer and author of Professional Scrum with Azure DevOps (MS Press). As a software developer and consultant with over 30 years of experience, he understands that software is built and delivered by people and not by processes or tools. Topics of Discussion: [2:24] Richard and Brad share their enthusiasm for AI, and they discuss the legal implications of using AI-generated code. [4:00] Brad explains that ownership of AI-generated code is academic until legal issues arise, such as lawsuits or investment rounds. [5:29] Richard explains the process of using AI tools to create code, emphasizing the iterative nature of the process. [8:02] The nuances of copyright law, including the need for human authorship to establish ownership. [10:57] How one gets a registered copyright. [14:19] The different things that AI-driven development can mean. [19:44] Risk avoidance practices as a coder. [23:46] Brad advises software developers to be aware of the legal environment and the potential risks of using AI tools. [24:59] What is an AI output, and what is just the computer being helpful? [32:35] Brad shares a real-world example of a $20 million deal where the seller did not own the code, highlighting the potential risks. [38:38] Brad mentions the Anthropic case, where the company was sued for training its LLM on copyrighted material. [41:22] Richard and Brad discuss the importance of raising awareness and providing resources to help developers understand the legal implications of using AI tools. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38101895

Tony Cardella: .NET Testing using NCrunch - Episode 365 09/01/2025

Tony Cardella: .NET Testing using NCrunch - Episode 365 Tony Cardella is a seasoned software engineer based in Houston, Texas. With a robust background in enterprise development, Tony brings deep expertise in the .NET Framework (C#), Python, and cloud platforms including Microsoft Azure and Amazon Web Services. His technical repertoire spans both relational databases — such as SQL Server, MySQL, and PostgreSQL — and NoSQL solutions like Azure Cosmos DB. Tony is a strong advocate for developer productivity tools, frequently leveraging JetBrains products including ReSharper, DataGrip, PyCharm, and Rider, as well as Visual Studio. Outside the world of code, Tony is equally passionate about strength training, whether he’s lifting weights himself or coaching others in the discipline. Topics of Discussion: [1:34] Tony shares his career journey, starting with a consulting company that reached out to him while he was job hunting. [3:17] NCrunch is an automated testing tool that runs unit tests continuously, focusing on impacted tests. [5:08] Challenges and benefits of NCrunch, and why would we need to use it? [7:44] Tony shares his approach to unit testing, focusing on covering 80% of the code with minimal effort and addressing the remaining 20% as needed. [8:51] The importance of not over-investing in unit tests that may not provide significant value. [11:47] Tony explains how Ncrunch provides code coverage metrics and visual indicators of covered and uncovered code. [12:59] The tool’s ability to show exactly where unit tests are failing, without needing to dive into stack traces. [13:51] Distributed processing and integration tests. [27:44] The challenges of running integration tests with external dependencies, such as databases. [29:18] Exploratory testing and code quality. [32:34] Tony emphasizes the value of unit tests in codifying tribal knowledge and ensuring code quality. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/38021515

Jonathan Peppers: GitHub Copilot for Maui Applications - Episode 364 08/25/2025

Micah Martin: Clean Coders - Episode 363 08/18/2025

Micah Martin: Clean Coders - Episode 363 Micah Martin is a co-founder, CEO, and Studio Director for Clean Coders. He’s a 2nd-generation coder, serial entrepreneur, family man, pilot, airplane builder, engineer, author, and just a normal guy trying to enjoy life to the fullest. He is also a co-author of Agile Principles, Patterns, and Practices in C#, along with his father, Robert C. Martin, also known as Uncle Bob, and a contributor to the popular testing framework FitNesse, among other things. Topics of Discussion: [1:52] Micah talks about early influences from his father, Uncle Bob, including childhood “robot” games and learning to code on a Commodore 64 and the first Macintosh. [3:47] First job working alongside industry legends like Kent Beck and Ward Cunningham, and the humbling realization that college hadn’t prepared him to build real software. [5:00] Founding Clean Coders to distribute training videos and later expanding into custom software development with Clean Coders Studio. [6:54] Why apprenticeship is key to developing strong software engineers and how Pete McBreen’s Software Craftsmanship influenced his approach. [8:20] Parallels between martial arts training under a sensei and learning software from a master craftsman. [11:23] How Clean Coders apprentices learn new languages like Clojure through Project Euler challenges and Koans, and why maintaining and extending code is essential training. [15:13] The origins and purpose of FitNesse, acceptance testing, and the need for a modern replacement. [18:43] The gap in tooling for non-programmers to write executable tests, and AI’s potential role in bridging it. [20:35] The role of bullet-point test scenarios in developer/customer collaboration. [21:07] The decline of Agile’s technical focus and the creation of the Software Craftsmanship Manifesto at a summit in Libertyville, IL. [25:29] Carrying forward the Clean Code discipline in both training and client projects. [27:11] Plans to offer a digital apprenticeship experience through CleanCoders.com. [28:17] How Micah uses AI for algorithms, test data generation, and client projects, plus its current limitations. [36:37] Lessons from aviation autopilot systems and why humans remain essential in software development. Mentioned in this Episode: Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/37863030

Burke Holland: GitHub Copilot Agent - Episode 362 08/11/2025

Burke Holland: GitHub Copilot Agent - Episode 362 Burke Holland is a Principal Developer Advocate at Microsoft who leads the Developer Tools Advocacy team. He’s done so much in developer tools, like growing VS Code from 6M to 40M+ users. He’s a frequent speaker at conferences like Microsoft Build, Ignite, GitHub Universe, QCon, and VS Code Day, which he helped create. He’s led many product launches for GitHub Copilot, Codespaces, and more. He has a very popular YouTube channel talking about developer tech. Topics of Discussion: [3:33] Burke describes his transition from being a good developer to an evangelist, inspired by a Visual Studio evangelist he met. [6:27] The rapid pace of change in the software development world compared to other industries. [9:22] AI-driven development and the various modes available in VS Code, including ask mode, edit mode, and agent mode. [15:41] Burke describes the current moment in AI developer tooling — no one really knows yet what the end product is supposed to be. Everyone agrees AI will help developers, but exactly how is still being figured out. [16:39] What are the right questions to ask AI? [17:41] The importance of providing the AI with the right context to ensure accurate and efficient development. [25:05] AI’s unpredictability makes it difficult to rely on it for consistent development tasks, which is frustrating and foreign to most developers. [32:18] Burke explains that while local AI models can handle small, scoped tasks like generating a function’s contents, they still fall far short of the performance needed for more complex jobs compared to models like GPT-4 or Claude. [37:18] Co-Pilot’s competition. [38:23] Inspiration to people that as long as you are the software architect, you can do anything. Mentioned in this Episode: — New Video Podcast! Email us at . Want to Learn More? Visit for show notes and additional episodes. /episode/index/show/azuredevops/id/37743185

Azure & DevOps Podcast

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