Conscious Chatter

The first global sustainable fashion podcast, Conscious Chatter opens the door to conversations about our clothing + the layers of stories, meaning and potential impact connected to what we wear. Hosted by Kestrel Jenkins, Conscious Chatter tackles nuanced topics that intersect with sustainability, fashion, systems of oppression, health, and wellbeing through a curiosity-driven lens. Through deep dive monthly themes, the focus is on making the conversation more circular.

Motherhood, entrepreneurship & sustainability: navigating impossible expectations while caring for yourself and others, and building things that center care 10/29/2024

Motherhood, entrepreneurship & sustainability: navigating impossible expectations while caring for yourself and others, and building things that center care Episode 324, Kestrel welcomes Camille Forde, a mother and entrepreneur working at the intersection of business, sustainability, and community-centered solutions, to the show. With over a decade of experience, has led corporate responsibility efforts at top professional services firms, earned an MBA from UC Berkeley with a focus on sustainable business, and spearheaded seller and brand partnerships at one of the largest fashion resale platforms. As a mother of two, Camille is deeply committed to building a more equitable and sustainable future that prioritizes community care. “Vulnerability, at least for me, it’s a practice. It’s not: you’re vulnerable once, and then you’re done. I’ve had to make being vulnerable a regular practice that I chase even though I don’t want to all the time.” -Camille OCTOBER THEME — MAYBE VULNERABILITY IS WHAT FASHION REALLY NEEDS Last week, I got vulnerable. I shared a lot about my personal story over the last year – the challenges I’ve faced, personally with my health, professionally, financially, with continuing to push an independent media platform forward – I’d say I shared a lot in a short amount of time. It blew me away to see the response – so many folks reached out, shared their personal challenges, and were vulnerable with me about things they’ve faced. I don’t know – it felt like it opened a bit of a portal to somewhere new. To a more connected realm, where we could actually be honest with each other. A place where we could not only talk about transparency being important in supply chains and messaging, but also in our personal lives and realities. It felt big. And I want to thank you for allowing that real emotion in, and sharing your own vulnerabilities – because as this week’s guest reminds us, so often what we receive with vulnerability is GROWTH (not in production volume, but in ourselves). This episode is really about a lot of challenges I’ve faced, mental struggles I have grappled with, and questions I’ve asked myself while working at the intersections of caring for people and the planet, and caring for my own child. When I was thinking about this episode idea as a way to build on this vulnerability discussion, one mom stood out immediately. I thought – I want to talk to Camille about this - it’s who I want to hear from, who I want to learn from, and I just felt like she would have a lot of valuable insight into these crossovers. Turns out, Camille went beyond. This episode is about sustainability, but not your typical approach to that conversation. It’s about caring for yourself, for your family, for your community, while building things that center care. “The perfectionism and shaming that happens both in motherhood or just parenthood and the sustainability space — it’s just beyond.” -Camille “The reality is we’re not going to be perfect at any of it, but you know, if you’re not careful, there’s so much shame that can enter the conversation and really slow you down.” -Camille /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/33667247

Kestrel on vulnerability, personal health, podcast evolutions & a question to sustainable fashion folks: are you OK? 10/15/2024

Kestrel on vulnerability, personal health, podcast evolutions & a question to sustainable fashion folks: are you OK? Episode 323 features Kestrel (just me!) in the first-ever solo episode of the show. With a primary focus on vulnerability, Kestrel shares some of the rollercoasters she has faced personally over the last year (from health to finances), why she and Nat are parting ways when it comes to regularly hosting the show, the true costs of producing a podcast, as well as a question on whether performative vulnerability is what we are seeing too often from the industry. “To all of you interested in sustainable fashion or those of you who work in the industry - I want to ask you a question: are you ok!?”-Kestrel OCTOBER THEME — MAYBE VULNERABILITY IS WHAT FASHION REALLY NEEDS As you can see, Nat is not here. It’s super bittersweet, as doing the show hand-in-hand with someone I love, a best friend, and someone I admire deeply was truly magical. At the same time, realities happen, things shift, and sometimes what you anticipate doesn’t actually work out in the end. Being honest about the journey is, and always has been important to me. Nat is amazing as many of you already know. Moving forward, she won’t be cohosting with me on a regular basis, but she will jump back in as a guest or cohost on the show on and off down the line. I know this might be confusing for you since there have been a lot of shifts on and off throughout the year. First of all, thanks for sticking around, for caring deeply about the show, and believing in the potential power of change in the fashion space. This episode is all about vulnerability — I hope you can feel my hope to tear down some of the curtains that often separate us for connecting on a deeper level. Here’s what you'll hear from me: A bit about my person health stuff I’ve gone through over the last year Why it wasn’t possible for Nat and I to continue co-hosting together - hint, hint: independent media is hard A little insider info on what it costs to run a podcast Some musings on whether it’s possible for the sustainable fashion / fashion realm as a whole to get vulnerable and what that could look like /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/33465627

Nelson ZêPequéno of Black Men With Gardens and Cayetano Talavera of Hecho By Caye on why fashion needs to listen to nature’s lessons on slowing down, tuning in, practicing patience & cultivating creativity to better center sustainability Episode 322 features Nelson ZêPequéno, a Ghanaian-American Artist and the founder of Black Men With Gardens and Sustain Creative, alongside Cayetano Talavera, a fiber artist, zero waste fashion designer, and the creative force behind HECHO BY CAYE. Through ‘Black Men With Gardens’, a digital and print publication, Nelson spotlights the connection Black and Brown communities cultivate with nature through agriculture and the arts. He further exploring cultural identity and environmental stewardship through his Los Angeles-based studio 'Sustain Creative', his current body of works offer a fresh perspective on sustainable contemporary design. Based in Los Angeles, Cayetano transforms foraged plants, homegrown flowers, insects, and even food waste into natural dyes, for his designs in the cocina de su mamá. His journey into the world of sustainable design was shaped by his humble upbringing, where he discovered the importance of resourcefulness and waste reduction. “Creativity is a way of looking at life differently, and by stepping outside of the way that we’re seeing life or our own perceptions and experimenting, we’re able to open up those new neural pathways and to reach these new places in life. For me specifically, I like to think that creativity is actually the solution not only to the mental health crisis that we’re all dealing with, but to actually the sustainability challenges that we’re facing. We need to embolden creativity in our culture and our communities so that people can look at the challenges that we have and come up with different ways of approaching it. We can’t essentially just fix the problems that we face now with the same thought processes that led us here, and the only way to get outside of that actually is to be creative.” -Nelson “The rhythmic movement that comes from making a craft — I find it to be very therapeutic. Whether it’s stirring a dye pot, painting strokes, I think also just the physical aspect that goes into being creative plays a role in ... it’s almost like you get so into what you’re creating that you kind of escape from your worries and anxieties for a bit. Once I start working, I totally forget whatever is going on around me, even if it’s for a split second. I am always encouraging people to just be creative; and don’t let the insecurities take over. I host natural dye workshops and a lot of adults tend to be like ‘but this isn’t for me’; ‘my tie dye bandana is going to come out super ugly’. And I’m like "‘no, everyone’s piece ends up looking really good and unique in their own way’. And so I think there’s fear that comes from being creative and I think people need to get over that hurdle first.” - Cayetano MAY THEME — CONNECTING WITH NATURE TO UNVEIL WAYS TO REIMAGINE FUTURES Narratives today often separate humans from nature – think of statements like “we need to protect nature” as if we aren’t a part of nature. But we are. Even though we often live and spend a lot of time inside buildings somewhat “separated” from nature, we are still intrinsically linked and woven into the natural world around us. As we have learned through so many of our guests this season, being connected to the world around us is not something new – it’s something that has been cultivated by Black and Brown Indigenous communities across the world through culture and tradition and a reverence for the ecosystems that we as humans are a part of. This week’s guests both interact with nature through their unique creative avenues – in very different yet overlapping ways. One works more directly with *fashion* through sewing and natural dyes, and the other not so directly with fashion but rather with plants and repurposing. The myriad of ideas they share remind us of the many things we can learn from nature (when we slow down enough to listen). What can fashion learn from nature to reimagine a better today and a more thoughtful tomorrow? Fashion folks, nature is calling, and it’s time we tune in … Links from the conversation: that Kestrel mentions /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/31979112

Teju Adisa-Farrar of Black Fiber & Textile Network and Author Layla K. Feghali on geography and what our relationship to place can teach us about *sustainability* 06/11/2024

Teju Adisa-Farrar of Black Fiber & Textile Network and Author Layla K. Feghali on geography and what our relationship to place can teach us about *sustainability* Episode 321 features Teju Adisa-Farrar, the founder and co-creator of the Black Fiber & Textile Network and the creator/host of the Black Material Geographies podcast, alongside Layla K. Feghali, the founder of River Rose Remembrance, a Plantcestral & Ancestral Re-Membrance practitioner, cultural worker, author & story re-collector (archivist). Teju is currently the Director of Outreach & Programs for the Fibers Fund, and co-creates with members of BFTN. Layla’s book, The Land In Our Bones, showcases an exploration of the herbs & land-based medicines of Lebanon & Cana’an, highlighting the power of culture’s relationship with land. “I think of culture as a way of relating to your environment, including those around you, making sense & beliefs based on your environment, & creating a sense of a shared identity based on the place that you are in. With the creation of colonialism & the transatlantic slave trade, and this very globalized neoliberal world, now culture is less connected to a place & more connected to what and how we consume.” -Teju “I feel like that relational way of existing or of relating is kind of what ultimately yields or inspires I guess what folks would call a sustainable way of navigating things. Because it requires a conversation beyond the self and with the entirety of the living world that I dwell in and that I’m a part of and that I impact and that impact me, and the ways that they’re alive.” -Layla MAY THEME — Connecting With Nature To Unveil Ways To Reimagine Futures As the sustainability conversation continues to evolve, we often will hear mention of regionality, or the importance of thinking more locally in supply chains or manufacturing. While this is a great aspect to explore further, it only touches the surface of the depth connected to geography, location and place. This week’s guests each approach education and storytelling through place-oriented lenses. While they are each uniquely different, these geography-oriented avenues teach us so much about what is often missing from the conversation. As we’ve explored through various angles this season, culture is integral to sustainability. Our guests this week shed light on the many ways that culture can teach us about land, history and legacy. How understanding the land, its history and the cultures woven into it, can lead us toward restorative justice and regenerative practices. As one of our guests so beautifully writes in her book: “The real focus of sustainability should be to recenter these Indigenous technologies rooted in multigenerational relationships to place, and teach younger generations how to harvest in ways that ensure the life of these plants will not only continue but spread per this ancestral knowledge.” Links from the conversation: /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/31697572

Wafa Ghnaim of Tatreez and Tea & Dr. Tanveer Ahmed of Central Saint Martins on preserving culture, decolonial frameworks, and how intersectional reform can be a pathway toward sustainable fashion futures Episode 320 features Wafa Ghnaim, a Senior Research Fellow at The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Curator for the Museum of the Palestinian People and Founder of The Tatreez Institute, alongside Dr. Tanveer Ahmed, a Senior Lecturer in Fashion and Race at Central Saint Martins and also Course Development Lead for MA Fashion and Anthropology at London College of Fashion. “Inherently, just by being Palestinian and by teaching about Palestinian life and history, and including oral history in my work as a foundational aspect of my research, I am threatening these kinds of structures, in and of itself. And so, simply my existence is resisting that colonialism and the normalization of destruction and death of Palestinian bodies.” -Wafa “Translating lots of decolonial thought around the canon and Eurocentrism and what shapes our ideas of art and design is really crucial to understand how we then deconstruct the canon. It’s not just a question about changing reading lists or to me, about representation and bringing in more Black and Brown academics into our institutions, although that is part of the equation. I think what we need to do and what I think is the most important role for me is to undue the harms that coloniality has done to our disciplines and within our institutions.” -Tanveer APRIL THEME — COMING TOGETHER TO BUILD A BETTER FASHION FUTURE Decolonizing fashion, intersectionality, identifying the knowledge holders, cultural inheritance and systems change were some of the key themes we explored in this week’s episode. We take a look at some of the areas that fashion educators are dismantling when it comes to heteronormative and Eurocentric views on fashion education and design. And how this knowledge can translate from the classroom or across cultural communities into practical ways. Building off of our last episode, we question – what are the biggest challenges we still face and how can we work toward more transformation? We learn from one of our guests that this focus and lens on decolonising fashion where marginalization and othering is built into the foundation, is very different to the offerings of cultural preservation, which holistically exists to share lived experience, pass over craft practice, history, culture and honor the hands and bodies of the people at the center of this. As our guest shares, what else is there if we cannot honor the people preserving culture. Fashion as it exists, still has a ways to go in embracing this at its roots, but our guests give us hope as they move through the world, sharing their wisdom and truth, and teaching us the meaning of how to be good custodians and stewards, so we can uphold this legacy with care and intention and continue to center Indigenous craft, culture and practice. Links from the conversation: /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/30950383

Sustainable fashion podcasters unite — Emily Stochl of Pre-Loved Podcast & Stella Hertantyo of Conscious Style Podcast help us reflect on 11 years since Rana Plaza, celebrating collective movements & ways to focus our continued advocacy Episode 319 features guests Stella Hertantyo, the co-host of the Conscious Style Podcast, alongside Emily Stochl, the host and creator of Pre-Loved Podcast. Stella also works as writer and communications coordinator, while Emily also works as the Vice President of Advocacy & Community Engagement at Remake. “There are so many painful roots when you look back at the way that certain dyes came about and you know, cotton farming — there are so many different legacies of colonialism that existed and still exist. But I also want to take the word painful out of that sentence and say that we have also learned to acknowledge the roots of sustainability because not all of them have pain at the center. And I think what I've learned with so much interest and joy is the different textile heritages that exist across the continent — from natural dyes to hand looming to the ways that people grow certain crops, and yeah, just different ways of expressing and using textiles as ways to archive and also to preserve culture. And there are so many people that do this incredible work and I think that that is a really, really important acknowledgment that I had to come to realize in my own journey.” -Stella “Labor rights are the foundation of what we know to be fashion activism in general, if we think back to the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory, which I know that something here in the United States, folks maybe learn about in school. This was another fashion industry-related disaster that led to a swath of movement-building around how we advocate for safer workplaces for people working inside the fashion industry. You know, roots to International Women’s Day, roots to some of the labor protections that we know and understand today, like the 40-hour work week. These are all things that if you look at the fashion industry from a history perspective, labor and the fashion industry, it is totally intertwined.” -Emily APRIL THEME — COMING TOGETHER TO BUILD A BETTER FASHION FUTURE Whether it’s legislation, science research & innovation, transformation in language, the storytelling tools & platforms in which we use to communicate, the evolution of definitions, the popularization of the second hand economy or labor rights advocacy – so much has changed within the sustainable fashion movement over the last decade. This week, we really put our new round table format to work. We dissect the sustainable fashion industry through a timeline of events, paying homage to Fashion Revolution Day – a movement that, in conjunction with many others, has brought more mobilization and change to the space. Join the four of us – all podcasters & storytellers – for this expansive breakdown. Links from the conversation: , article on Conscious Life & Style by Stella (mentioned by Stella) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/30747993

Upcycling artists Francisco Alcazar & Ella Wiznia of Series NY are redefining sustainable fashion while reimagining craft & challenging the gender binary 03/26/2024

Upcycling artists Francisco Alcazar & Ella Wiznia of Series NY are redefining sustainable fashion while reimagining craft & challenging the gender binary *DISCLAIMER — this episode features stories connected to eating disorders and sexual abuse. Episode 318 features guests Francisco Alcazar, a zero waste designer based in Los Angeles, California, alongside Ella Wiznia, the founder and designer of Series NY. Using his 25 years experience as a structural engineer, is leading the movement that promotes circularity in fashion, and expanding these principles to other disciplines, whilst celebrating the material stories of each textile and the individuality they represent. A New York based brand of ethically made genderless clothing and accessories, makes every piece in NY in partnership with skilled artisans who set their own rates using only pre-existing and sustainable materials. “What I like about upcycling is the freedom that it gives you. When you’re upcycling, you actually remix, rework, reuse. And in the process of doing that, the power is back to you. What I mean by that is when we go to a secondhand shop, all the clothes there are mixed up. You have the power to choose — there is no trend, there is no fashion. And the good thing is it’s hard because you have to deal with your inner ‘what you actually like’. And some people follow trends because the process of learning about you is hard. It’s easy to just conform and follow trends, you know, you go to magazines and copy a trend. You don’t have to actually learn about yourself anymore.” -Francisco “Fashion kind of seems to be one of the only forms of art that is quote unquote gendered in most peoples’ minds. I mean, you don’t go into an art gallery and say ‘oh no, this is for men; no, that piece is for a girl’ — you know, it’s just not how it’s done. Or architecture — ‘no, this building was for this these types of people’. We’re all able to experience them how we want.” -Ella MARCH THEME — Acknowledging The Confines of Gender & The Folks Disrupting Stereotypes The fashion industry can often be described as frivolous with labels, stereotypes and binaries boxing us in – telling us how we need to dress and what identities are deemed quote unquote ‘acceptable’, which can create spaces that are harmful, toxic and void of any sort of individuality and uniqueness – it can often be a place where difference in not celebrated but rather hidden. This week, our incredible guests share the power that upcycling has in being a paintbrush to the art you wish to create and see in the world - a world where the gender binary is challenged, where we go against ultra fashion trends, and have the permission to dress freely without societal bias and prejudice. We hear how pain can be the source of our purpose, and how textiles and materials are the vehicle in this journey of pride, play and personal empowerment. We explore the origins of gender-based crafts, the passing over of traditional skills and techniques, and how our guests are challenging the confines of gender stereotypes through reimagining materiality. Links from the conversation: (artist that Ella mentions) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/30549258

How gender plays into the devaluing of knowledge and its links to sustainable fashion & wellness with Megan Schnitker of Lakota Made and Niha Elety of Tega Collective 03/12/2024

How gender plays into the devaluing of knowledge and its links to sustainable fashion & wellness with Megan Schnitker of Lakota Made and Niha Elety of Tega Collective Episode 317 features guests Megan L. Schnitker, an Indigenous Traditional Herbalist and Niha Elety, a fashion advocate, designer, chef, and storyteller. Megan is the owner of , who offer plant medicinals and personal care products. Niha is the founder and CEO of fashion brand, , a brand that co-creates with Adivasi (Indigenous) communities celebrating their craft and knowledge with each collection. “American herbalism was founded on Indigenous knowledge and use of all the plants that are in North America. And so, American herbalism is founded on Indigenous women’s knowledge, Indigenous storytellers’ knowledge. And we’re very rarely credited for giving colonizers that knowledge. I credit the herbalists that saved a lot of that knowledge and are using it and kept it alive, but it came from Indigenous people, it came from Indigenous women, it came from Indigenous medicine; it came from us.” -Megan “The history of fashion production for centuries has been by women primarily. I’m from India, so in India, there’s large groups of artisans and garment workers and weavers, and a majority of the population that are in those kinds of professions are women. And over the years, I would say with the industrialization of textile production and all of that, men often became the heads of big fashion companies that we see today. So, a lot of them have profited from knowledge that a lot of female artisans and designers have been creating for a long time.” -Niha MARCH THEME — Acknowledging The Confines of Gender & The Folks Disrupting Stereotypes One of the recurring themes our incredibly powerful guests shared this week is that for true sustainability to exist, we must go beyond commodification and capitalism to focus on consent, compensation, credit, collaboration and co-creation where the individual human is valued and respected, and where preserving culture is at the forefront. We question things like ownership and agency, and the power dynamics that play into who gets to decide what is deemed “fashion” or “medicine”. Who are the knowledge holders in fashion, wellness, herbalism & health spaces? Whose knowledge do we value? And what are the deep rooted reasons our society often doesn’t give credit to certain genders and their intersectionalities? We learn that craft and wellness are embedded into the wisdom and intuitive ways of life for Indigenous people and cultures, from the Adivasi communities in South Asia to Indigenous people like the Lakota here in the U.S. And that by design, the erasure and extraction of female knowledge, the matriarchs of so many cultures, is a constant struggle. The solution is more than just words, it’s the actions and uplifting and amplifying of Indigenous peoples, and the honoring of traditional ways that have real potential to impact systemic change. It’s also in slowing down our everyday interactions and the way we share information and knowledge, in a way where we actually respect and pay homage to the origins of ideas. NOTE: Megan had to jump off our call to make it to her child’s parent teacher conference, so we weren’t able to hear her thoughts on our last question during the episode. We were thankful that she was able to send through her ideas on “how to slow down when everything feels fast” so we can share them with you here: I take time at least one day a week or one morning a week. I have nothing scheduled and I clean my house so I can sit in a clean house in silence. I sit there and look at all my family pictures on the walls, family that's passed on, good times, and sad times and I practice gratitude. Gratitude for everything I have, everything I receive and for the moments that brought me this far. If it's warm out (my fibromyalgia doesn’t like cold), I'll go outside and drink a cup of tea or coffee in my backyard and listen to the sounds of nature, and just sit and practice gratitude for everything that brought me to that moment. I sit with the chaos of my kiddos and I smile and thank the universe / Tunkasila for sending me these amazing beings I get to mother, I thank my girls all the time for being who they are and teaching me so much and also bringing so much value to my life; without them, the motivation wouldn't be there. Before bedtime, I read my girls books, and as I read them this story, I cherish the moments before sleep and thank the universe for keeping me here and getting me here. -Megan Quotes & links from the conversation: /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/30338938

Celebrating the cultural tradition, past and present, of Palestinian Tatreez with artists / educators Lina Barkawi and Eman Toom & why sustainable fashion must include cultural sustainability Episode 316 features guests , a Tatreez practitioner, preservationist, and educator based in Brooklyn, alongside , a Palestinian Tatreez artist, teacher, sewer and crafter. “Part of just doing tatreez, in my personal opinion, is a form of resistance because we’re basically just existing and we’re showing our Palestinian identity, but there have also been very explicit uses of tatreez as a form of resistance. And so you have thobes that came out of the intifadas in the ‘90s where the flag was banned and so these are very explicit uses of tatreez where they would stitch literally the Palestinian flag. Or different motifs, like new motifs that came out of representing national identity and things like that. So, I just wanted to mention that because there have been very explicit forms of resistance, but I think the more subtle ways is kind of where Eman and I are playing a very big role in — is thinking about how do we help just bring more Palestinians into this art form and help them reclaim this art form and use it, because just by doing that, no matter what your color preferences are, whatever your background is, that is just in and of itself a form of resistance against an occupier.” -Lina “The technique and the skill that you’re using to create these motifs — it is at its simplest form, a form of cross stitch. There’s other forms of tatreez, but for the most part, it is that. But what I try to always remind people is that tatreez is so much more than that, in the sense that it is a record of our history. You know, the more that we study Palestinian embroidery, the more that we’re studying tatreez, the more that we’re studying the history of Palestine at the same time. You can’t have one without the other, they go hand in hand.” -Eman When we think about sustainability, what’s the first thing that comes to mind? Perhaps curbing our addiction to consumption, mass manufacturing, and circular materials. But what about cultural sustainability, craft, connection to ancestral land, and challenging colonization through continuing to uplift centuries old traditions? In this week's episode we learn from our guests about how Tatreez inherently IS sustainability. The motifs and symbols embroidered on cloth are a language of symbols documenting spaces in time, they tell stories of nature, the flora and fauna around the Women making them. We learn that the hand made process is the antithesis to homogeneous fashion - it is slow, considered and truly one of a kind. In 2021 the art of embroidery in Palestine was recognized by UNESCO as an important intangible cultural heritage - an artform that connects the Palestinian people to their roots. Preserving culture is inherently and naturally, as our guests share - sustainability. It needs no labels, or commodifying - it is made up of the everyday rituals, traditions, craft and practices that celebrate identity. Quotes & links from the conversation: by Layla K. Feghali, book Kestrel brings up briefly (Lina’s new podcast) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/30131898

Intergenerational knowledge & sustainable fashion — how clothing is more than just aesthetics; it’s about the upholding of cultural practices and the amplifying of knowledge & traditions Episode 315 features guests Amy Denet Deal, the founder of , a Diné (Navajo) owned sustainable artwear brand, alongside Sha’Mira Covington, Ph.D., an and Assistant Professor in Fashion. “Thinking about sustainability beyond just the textiles, thinking about the land that we’re on, how we can live in reciprocity with the people, the four-legged relatives, everything, the plants, the animals here — in all the work we do. Which is why community focus is so much part of what I consider sustainability ‘cause everyone should be thriving from what we do — not just the brand, not just a couple people, everything around needs to be in that harmony.” -Amy “I’m very much so motivated by truth. We, as a society, have gotten really deep in the business of pretending, pretending that things are ok and they are not. We, as as society, are very spiritually unwell, yet we continue to go on as business as usual. This facade of sorts keeps me up and the performative untruths we have to tell ourselves every day to function in this society is very unsettling to me. This motivates me to be a seeker of truth, to better connect to myself, to nature and to other people.” -Sha’Mira In this week's episode, we explore the topic of INTERGENERATIONAL KNOWLEDGE IN FASHION & TEXTILES. To say this episode was healing, would be an understatement. We talk about how we can learn from the trees, and the sky and the land that we walk on each day. What Black and Brown Indigenous cultures teach us about truth-telling, and the unlearning and relearning of traditional ways. We also explore how community circles are a solution to creating more social impact and better connections … with one another, with our four legged relatives, and the natural world around us. This episode teaches us how to live in reciprocity, and how fashion is more than just aesthetics; it’s about the upholding of cultural practices, and the amplifying of intergenerational knowledge and traditions. In order for these to live on, we all must actively participate in honoring and respecting and appreciating them – not appropriating them. We all have a responsibility to take part in challenging systems to better heal the planet and its Indigenous cultures who have always been the inherent teachers of these connected ways of life. We can’t wait for you to listen and learn from our guests this week who are the holders of so much wisdom, knowledge and truth. Tune in as we contextualize our February theme – Sharing Textile Knowledge Across Generations. Quotes & links from the conversation: by Carole Lindstrom, children’s book Kestrel mentions Images above are from Sha’Mira’s recent installation at the Fashion for Good Museum in Amsterdam, Netherlands, entitled Curative: Confronting and Healing the Fashion-industrial Complex 4Kinship currently has 2 fundraisers active for their community initatives: 1) Text SKATEINBEAUTY to 707070 to help them deliver skateboards on Navajo Nation with Diné Skate Garden Project 2) Text ILLUMINATE to 707070 to help amplify and elevate Indigenous creatives with 4KINSHIP INDIGENOUS FUTURES FUND /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/29932873

Vintage stylist Beth Jones & Dounia Wone of Vestiaire Collective on whether fast fashion brands fit into the resale experience 01/30/2024

Vintage stylist Beth Jones & Dounia Wone of Vestiaire Collective on whether fast fashion brands fit into the resale experience In episode 314, you’ll hear our first official roundtable format, featuring guests Beth Jones, YouTube star and creator of , alongside Dounia Wone, the Chief Impact Officer at , a platform that showcases luxury preloved fashion. “It’s few and far between that the fast fashion holds up against vintage or really quality pieces maybe made by a designer or things like that … Even if it has a vintage look to it, there’s something about it that doesn’t hold up in a way. And honestly, I will be a little bummed. It’s Zara. I’d rather have the old Kathys of California blazer or dress. I end up not being excited about it, so often, I just go with something else instead.” -Beth “Vestiaire is a 15 year old company. Our founders really believed in fighting overconsumption and overproduction back then in Paris … When I went to them and said ‘ok, let’s ban fast fashion,’ they were completely in … what we want is that it will educate the consumers on our platform. What we were looking at is the behavior … what we saw for the last year was actually people are staying on the platform, 70% of the people who were impacted by the ban stayed on the platform and actually reinvested more and bought less.” -Dounia JANUARY THEME — Fast Fashion, Consumption & Why Self Work Is Integral To Changemaking When we talk about the messes of the fashion industry, a recurring theme we circle back to is – OVERPRODUCTION – especially with regard to fast fashion. Whether you’re super interested in sustainability and fashion or you’re new to the conversation, most people today are coming to the basic conclusion that fast fashion is problematic, due to its incessant mass production. There has been a lot of commentary over the last 7 years, about I guess, the questioning of our moral compass, when it comes to how we shop for fast fashion. What do I mean by that? Let’s break it down. We know that fast fashion is everywhere, and that so much of our clothing ends up in charity shops, where sadly, a great deal of it is destined for landfill. So, to address this cycle, does it make sense to buy fast fashion from the secondhand economy? Can we then prevent these clothes from ending up in landfills? It’s not that simple. Other questions come up like – “If we adopt the same shopping behaviors in the secondhand economy as we have with fast fashion, what really changes? Where do we draw the line?” Or Aren’t we just encouraging the fast fashion industry to churn out more *stuff* to feed the overproducing system it has generated? In this week's episode, we chat with two incredible powerhouse women from very different realms of the fashion industry. They each contribute so much to helping dissect this tension – We explore the layers of responsibility we hold as everyday individuals The power organizations hold in enacting change And how lobbying and legislation is an integral part of fashioning a better future for fashion. We also discuss the power of personal style and how we can all start shifting our buying behavior by ‘Always Playing Dress Up’. Sound familiar? One of our guests coined that very phrase. Tune in as we dive deeper into our January theme – Fast Fashion, Consumption & Why Self Work Is Integral To Changemaking. Quotes & links from the conversation: , article by Dounia that Nat mentions /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/29714528

Why self work is integral to advocating for transformation in fashion & why we must deeply question our personal values to truly get active in creating a more sustainable fashion future 01/16/2024

Why self work is integral to advocating for transformation in fashion & why we must deeply question our personal values to truly get active in creating a more sustainable fashion future In episode 313, you’ll hear from co-hosts (yes, co-hosts!) Kestrel Jenkins and Natalie Shehata in the launch of Season 7. This is also the first episode in which Kestrel and Nat showcase their new co-host dynamic. With this powerful community-driven change, they’ve teamed up to reimagine some aspects of the show. Here’s what you can expect this season: Roundtable Discussions — featuring at least 2 guests per episode Focus On Making The Conversation More Circular — bringing more folks to the table to learn from various voices at the same time Monthly Themes — we’ll hone in on a specific topic each month Bi-Weekly Episodes — expect to hear 2 episodes per month, instead of the previous 4 because, slow media :) JANUARY THEME — FAST FASHION, CONSUMPTION & WHY SELF WORK IS INTEGRAL TO CHANGEMAKING Do you remember when we talked about slow media and telling stories through love, not labor? In our kickoff to the new season, we decided to go deeper into this love-not-labor concept – to explore what it really means and how this approach directly relates to sustainable fashion. Pulling back a little further – our focus of this show is Self Work. But what does this really mean? In general, it gets aligned with the idea of self improvement. Across the fashion media landscape and socials lately, we’ve seen a heightened interest in looking inward to question what you really want out of your life. Why? Well, it’s the time for annual resolutions, as we just celebrated the launch of a new year. And with that – in sustainable fashion lately, there’s been a lot of commentary about how things need to be reimagined across the industry, with folks voicing different approaches to achieve larger scalable transformation. At the same time, it feels like the movement needs to have a more organic approach and not be so defined or limited – because as it stands, sustainability is so different to each of us, and in order to cultivate a space that is truly diverse, we all need to be at the table to provide our unique approaches. But whether or not we’re at the table, in order to take any sort of action, we need to go back to the beginning and tune into ourselves. When was the last time you questioned your values? What do you truly care about? Until we are clear on these aspects within ourselves, how can we live out these values and put them into practice? Therein lies the crux of what we break down in this week's show. Find more notes at . /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/29508068

Denali Jöel on fashion as an art praxis rooted in Afro-Indigenous philosophies, interrogating the emphasis placed on the *industry* & reminding us of the possibility of creating new ecosystems In episode 312, Kestrel welcomes Denali Jöel, a non-binary Multidisciplinary Artist, Designer, Educator and Fashion Griot, to the show. Born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica, has been an asylee living in the US since 2014, recently obtaining their U.S. citizenship this year. Their art praxis intersects design, performance, media and community engagement with particular focus on queer identities and Afro-diasporan histories, futures, collective healing, and radical imagination. “It comes back to us as an individual but also as a collective to recognize that we need to shift our own relationship to fashion and with fashion as a tool for the ways in which that we show up, the ways in which we disrupt our own oppression. I think we place so much emphasis on calling out and asking industry to do better and I’m just like — the industry is actually operating the way it’s supposed to, like it was built. Again, when you think about whose imagination we are living in, that is the imagination. And so, when we force folks to shift, are we just bullying them into performing a version of change or is it possible that we could create new ecosystems within our own selves — and using the resources available to us — but creating that shift and slowly moving away from industry and start thinking more about ecosystems.” -Denali This is THE FINAL EPISODE of Season 6. Launched in February of 2022, this season has taken us on a journey – and here we are, arriving at the 52nd episode of this era of Conscious Chatter. Over the last two years on the show, we have questioned so much of how the fashion industry operates, and really dove into unique ways that individuals, companies and initiatives are working to basically unlearn *the way fashion has been done* and relearn new ways of reimagining its future. This final episode of the season feels really important to me – as it’s the last show that will be oriented in this way. As Nat and I have teased a bit here and there, we have a fresh approach to Conscious Chatter coming to you with Season 7. :) But with this immense feeling of wanting to culminate Season 6 in an extra meaningful and circular way, I sat and questioned for quite some time who could provide that sort of grounding presence. When I thought of this week’s guest, I felt instantly at ease and an all-encompassing feeling of warmth and hope surrounded me. They were the person that could help us close out this season. It may sound a bit airy fairy, but this episode feels like a massive hug to me – I hope you feel it too. In today’s world, we hear the word INTENTIONAL thrown around a lot. It’s one of those words that has taken hold in recent years and become a go-to. While we see its use on a consistent basis, I’m not entirely sure whether we’re seeing its meaning carried out in practice. What is the definition of INTENTIONAL? According to Dictionary.com, it is defined as: done with intention or on purpose. In order to do something with intention, there is almost undoubtedly a need to slow down and become more present and tuned into that process. As we know, slowing down is not really something the systems around us are advocating for. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t folks out there truly taking the meaning of intentionality to heart and very thoughtfully putting it into practice. I say it in our chat, but I’ll say it again – this week’s guest takes intentionality to the extreme, in the most beautiful way. They also consistently resist the systems around us by working to reimagine their own approaches and value indicators outside of the vacuum as much as possible. For example, they approach fashion and costume design as an art praxis that is rooted in intentionality, sustainability and social equity, and that is guided by three Afro-Indigenous philosophies. Instead of commodifying it, they have and continue to use fashion as a tool to slowly further discover themself. But what I love about how they communicate is they are not only talking about themself as an individual, but also being a Black Queer person, they are telling stories as a part of a larger community of intersections, brimming with collective histories, present circumstances and collective futures. Quotes & links from the conversation: “The more I matured, the more I realized that external validation was very fickle and fleeting. And so, it came now to — when I look in the mirror, do the clothes that I wear, does my appearance uplift and reverence the divine feminine and the divine masculine that lives within me?” -Denali (25:07) “Because of me and my own intersections, the work that I do is constantly in conversation with who I am and my positionality in society — the areas within which I feel marginalized and also the areas within which I feel liberated. And so, I want to ensure that I’m making space for that and holding the past, the present, and the future within me. And so, being a griot is essentially that — it’s acting as an archive, as a vanguard of sorts, you know protecting and advancing the stories of who I am as an individual but also as a collective body — centering and amplifying the Black femme, shifting the balance to us recognizing that Queer folks, especially those at the intersection of being Black and Queer are diviners historically — reclaiming all of that. And so, being a griot was important to me because like you said, I’m a storyteller and I think it hit me when I realized the vicissitudes I’ve had to survive in my life are to kind of give me and provide me with all of these stories — these stories that again, through the Ubuntu principle are not just for me, but they’re for the collective, they’re for everyone.” -Denali (31:52) , book by Octavia E. Butler that Denali references connected to their upcoming project in collaboration with The New Children’s Museum in San Diego, CA “I think we talk a lot about diversity, equity and inclusion, but we don’t talk about belonging. And belonging invites us to think holistically about the space — tactile — what does it feel like? What does it smell like? What does it taste like even when we enter the space, and is it familiar to those of us who have always felt as though we’ve existed outside of these spaces?” -Denali (44:53) — a fashion film by Denali /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28543241

Julius Tillery aka the "Puff Daddy Of Cotton" on the need to remix both the perception of the cotton industry and the business model 10/30/2023

Julius Tillery aka the "Puff Daddy Of Cotton" on the need to remix both the perception of the cotton industry and the business model In episode 311, Kestrel welcomes Julius Tillery, founder of BlackCotton, to the show. A 5th-generation cotton farmer from North Carolina, Julius founded to help center and uplift the Black community closest to the cotton fields in Northampton County, North Carolina. “There’s so many demons and like bad spirits and bad tropes around cotton and the industry in general, and you know, just coming from the South, and people having these perspectives of cotton production relating to slavery — I felt like people was making these notions about cotton and not really knowing anything about cotton. And I wanted to start educating people about the cotton business, and even myself and how people like myself — how we end up in cotton. Families that work in cotton like, what was their value-in working in this type of production? And I wanted to change that outlook to make it look more stronger and prestigious than what was assumed.” -Julius About 6 episodes back, we had a chat with the brilliant leader and self-proclaimed solutionist . This episode was deeply focused on the work Tameka is doing to rebuild equitable and just cotton systems & foster the reclamation of cotton acreage for Black farmers. It’s a really important show that helps provide some of the historical context around cotton in the United States, as well as ways that Tameka and her team are working to reimagine new systems for cotton. When guests lead to new guests, I like to acknowledge that because it’s a beautiful thing. So, thanks to Tameka and our interactions, I was led to this week’s guest – Julius Tillery. This week’s guest was raised amongst cotton fields – growing the fiber is something that runs deep throughout his ancestry. As a 5th generation cotton farmer, he has followed in the footsteps of generations before, but – with a twist. Known to many as the Puff Daddy of Cotton, he has approached the cotton industry with a focus on remixing what the business looks like today. As a young person, he saw the imminent need to rebrand cotton, and to help expand the narrative around the fiber away from the harmful alignment it often has with simply being a poor man’s crop. Julius shares more about how he’s reimagining what a cotton farmer’s business model can look like today, how he’s creating alternative revenue streams, he reveals some of the financial challenges farmers face, and tells us how he was able to actually turn fiber from his family’s plants into fashion. Quotes & links from the conversation: “And I think that’s what really makes us to the sustainability component of clothing and sustainable world in general — is this is actually real stuff that comes off a real farm — and I make it culturally and I make it about environmental where it’s coming from a Black community from Black people that’s growing cotton in an area, in a time period that we used to be oppressed by this crop, but actually now we’re trying to control it and make it something that we can be proud of and uplifting our community. I hope that in my community I stand as a symbol of pride and of strength, being a farmer, instead of somebody who was oppressed.” -Julius (10:22) “What I’m doing with my farm is trying to show pride in being a farmer, and that’s moreso than just culturally — that’s just all of the industry and environmentalism. Like, we have to have more respect for the resources that we create with our planet, so that we don’t waste them, so that we don’t have to have bad resources come back to us. I’m really into like — why are we importing so many products when people need jobs here in America, people need jobs here in the Western Hemisphere — how can we connect dots so we don’t have to ship stuff all across the world?” -Julius (15:22) , research article that highlights the distressing statistics around cotton farmers and suicide (something that Kestrel brings up on the show) — “Nearly 4,00,000 farmers committed suicide in India between 1995 and 2018. This translates into approximately 48 suicides every day.” “I feel like it’s important that as much as possible, we find ways to support sustainable so there’s a reason for it to be in the marketplace.” -Julius (19:27) “And that’s the only way we gonna be sustainable is these big companies see purpose in dealing with such small companies like myself. I hope that things can change but you know, I’m really being real about who we are in regards to what’s the culture of the industry we in. Cause I’m so much smaller than the cotton farmers I’m around but that allows me to make decisions and be someone who can think more efficiently and more lean.” -Julius (20:05) “With urban agriculture and the growth of farmer’s markets all across the country, I believe there’s people seeing the value and worth of growing their own foods and products. So there’s so many people that want to learn to grow their own food and products. So many people want to learn about the business of foods and products. I believe there’s new energy around agriculture and it’s a constantly growing industry right now. And I think that the way our education system has been set up for many years, and even right now — it’s set up to disadvantage agriculture, like it’s telling you not to go into it. Like our college prepatories teaching you to be a doctor, a lawyer, some type of high white-collar job / professional, but I think there’s a lot of things in pop culture, I believe there’s a lot of living arrangements right now that’s bringing new energy to people that grow outdoors. The new look of a farmer is a lot more updated than 30, 40 years ago. You know, farmers are aging, but then there’s young farmers coming in that’s using the internet and really out here networking and connecting, and so there’s a tide turning.” -Julius (30:15) “I like to compare myself as an ant to the whole cotton industry, the cotton jungle. Ants make mounds, and before long, there’s more mounds than you can count.” -Julius (32:16) in Our State , Human Footprint episode on PBS that features Julius /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28474493

Cassandra Pintro of Consumption Project on welcoming her community to challenge their buying habits and question what is *enough* 10/24/2023

Cassandra Pintro of Consumption Project on welcoming her community to challenge their buying habits and question what is *enough* In episode 310, Kestrel and Natalie welcome Cassandra Pintro, the founder of The Consumption Project, to the show. With a focus on making impact cool, serves as a catalyst for educating folks about the impact of their buying habits and nurturing a collective mindset that values quality, longevity, and the environment. “So, it was — how do I find myself in this space and how do I make space that opens up a door for other people to feel comfortable, and you’re starting from a place that is kind of like a blank slate. And I really felt that sustainability was the right vehicle to tell that story and really get back to basics if you will, cause that is really what, in my mind, consumption is about — it’s about people telling you what you need to have vs what you actually need to have or what you might even want for yourself vs what you’re thinking you want for yourself.” -Cassandra You have probably heard us talk about consumption on the show – it tends to be a recurring theme that weaves its way into the majority of our conversions, in one way or another. While there are so many issues contributing to fashion’s inequitable systems, consumption (fueled by overproduction) is a very significant piece of the overarching puzzle. And while it may not always feel this way – our consumption is something that we actually have some sort of control over. Do you feel like you are tuned into your consumption habits? Are you aware of what you buy and why you buy it? Do you regularly question what is *enough* for you? Maybe some of these resonate, or maybe you haven’t asked yourself these questions before. Either way, we all have more work to do when it comes to tuning into our buying behaviors. Considering the capitalistic world that we live in, where more is regularly touted as the best option, it can be challenging to turn off all the pro-consumption marketing noise around us, constantly telling us that we need to buy something else to be better. This week’s guest realized that she wanted to challenge herself to be ok with what she already has – to embrace what was currently in her closet as enough. As an associate production manager at a fashion publication – one many would say is the holy grail of fashion magazines — her decision to stop consuming fashion items for a year felt nothing less than iconic. Leading by example, this week’s guest decided to open up her personal consumption journey and welcome others in, to join her in the process. She created a safe space where folks are opening up about the oxymoronic realities of their unique journeys. The honest dialogue she’s cultivating allows us to feel like we’re a part of something bigger, yet without the need to performatively appear perfect. Because when you’re grappling with consumption, failure of some sort is expected and should be embraced as an educational tool, not defeat. Quotes & links from the conversation: “I felt like I couldn’t keep going down that path without challenging the space that I’m in, and it was a really big part of the early mission of Consumption Project — there were a couple different things that were really important to me, but one of them being that it needed to feel like something that was easy and accessible (accessibility is huge to me), it needed to feel like something that people could do unconsciously without it feeling like they are a climate expert, which is also really important for me as well. I really wanted to do something that didn’t position me in a place for people to think that that’s what I was, because I feel like that’s unfair to people who are actively in this space and have been in it a lot longer and know numbers and statistics a lot more than I do. And I really wanted to do something that felt like it was talking to my community, first and foremost — my friends — and saying ok, if I’m at step 3 and you’re at step 0 or 1, maybe I can at least just hold your hand and be a vehicle to making you think a little bit more consciously.” -Cassandra (16:35) “I’m not perfect at it yet, it’s a very new thing. And I think the thing that I was most willing to do with Consumption Project is fail or get it wrong out loud and in real time with my audience and showing them that if I, somebody who works in a place that is considered almost an authority of our industry — 1) if I can gain their support to even talk about this initiative that I’m trying to do, that’s incredible and that’s a step forward and then 2) while I still am somebody existing in that space, if I can fail in front of people, I think it gives them a little bit more space to feel like they can too.” -Cassandra (37:04) , article by Cassandra in Vogue /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28407590

Jeanell English on navigating the pressure to project a certain image in business & across climate spaces and balancing the worlds of activists & execs as a leader in impact 10/17/2023

Jeanell English on navigating the pressure to project a certain image in business & across climate spaces and balancing the worlds of activists & execs as a leader in impact In episode 309, Kestrel welcomes Jeanell English, the founder and CEO of ELIZABETH, to the show. An experienced facilitator and people operations leader, Jeanell has worked in an array of roles, most recently as the Executive Vice President of Impact and Inclusion at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, before she dove fully into her own company, . “Because the reality is — you’re never gonna win everything you aim to win. It’s not really a competition, it’s about progress. And it’s so easy to be distracted because you’re gonna have people saying: you’re not doing enough, you’re not going fast enough, you’re not going hard enough. You’re gonna hear people saying: you’re doing too much, you’re too hard. So you’re really in this challenging intersection. So, for me, establishing very clear goals at the beginning of any role that I take on is so important because that becomes my North Star, my guiding light, the thing that grounds me and keeps me focused.” -Jeanell What we wear is one way we say something to the world. Each day, we wake up, put on an outfit and step outside into various spaces. The act of dressing, in and of itself, can be an important avenue to express ourselves. At the same time, we operate within a world that is full of expectations that have been constructed over time, and entrenched in power dynamics. Take for example – executive spaces. You have to *look the part*, right? And don’t forget – that usually comes at a high cost. Not only does clothing and appearance play a strong role in these environments, but often, there is an assumption that leaders must act a certain way as well – project a specific persona and showcase their *power position* in how they interact with coworkers. Now let’s add another layer. Imagine you work as an Executive in Impact, Diversity, Equity, Climate or Sustainability. You’re in a role with the understanding of the imminent need to dismantle systems of power as a part of the work – but you’re operating within some sort of hierarchical structure at the same time. And don’t forget the tension of navigating the worlds of activists and executives, as someone working in these fields. How can you satisfy both sides? Are you questioning what this conversation has to do with sustainability and fashion? For starters – the pressure to uphold a specific *image* through the way we dress or act in executive spaces is rooted in inequity. Having to visually showcase that you belong, based on the clothing you wear, is an issue of accessibility. This week’s guest has extensive experience navigating so many of these intersections – and working for notable organizations like The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. Creating change is challenging, but learning from folks like her who are navigating these intersections is key to reimagining creative ways to intentionally move forward. Quotes & links from the conversation: “Leading with kindness and respect and curiosity is one of the ways to disarm someone who might be coming to a conversation from a place of defensiveness or wanting to protect legacy, because you’re not coming to attack, you’re coming to understand, to question, to have a conversation, which can be just as effective at dismantling these systems of power. Because you’ve eliminated this feeling, this tension that is underlying this conversation that really is about change.” -Jeanell (23:52) “I cannot value inclusion and equity and accessibility if I don’t model it in my own leadership behavior — that’s always been incredibly important to me and for me. And I’ve seen and had the honor of working with great leaders who have modeled that for me.” -Jeanell (28:53) “The reality is someone is always going to have an issue with the way that you’re approaching things — it goes back to what I was talking about and being in this intersection of really vocal, vocal, hugely well respected advocates pushing things forward in a very big way and executives who are satisfying sometimes different needs. They each have different values that are driving them on a day to day. And I think you can get lost in trying to assimilate and align your values with the different parties. When again, what is your North Star? What’s your guiding light? What are the goals that you have set out? And of course, you might flex and you might learn from either side along the way and that informs your path forward, but needing to satisfy or having that innate feeling that you have to satisfy is part of the issue of us moving things forward. I sit in the space of progress, again — progress not perfection.” -Jeanell (32:36) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28342157

Muchaneta Ten Napel on utilizing tech as a tool to change how fashion does business, not a crutch that will *save us all* & preparing for the fashion policy changes that are on the horizon 10/10/2023

Muchaneta Ten Napel on utilizing tech as a tool to change how fashion does business, not a crutch that will *save us all* & preparing for the fashion policy changes that are on the horizon In episode 308, Kestrel welcomes Muchaneta Ten Napel, the founder of Shape Innovate and FashNerd.com, to the show. As a fashion economist, a lecturer, a writer, a consultant and the founder of and , Muchaneta is powering change through a multifaceted approach. “To many people, today, to be sustainable is a way of draining money out of your company — it’s not a money-making initiative. And that’s the kind of thoughts that I would like to really change. Because for me, that merger of fashion and technology is growing and changing. It’s going beyond the wearable tech that we all were kind of excited about, and all the different devices. It’s now the idea of using innovation to make a social impact and to problem solve when it comes to sustainability — that’s where technology is now.” -Muchaneta Fashion’s obsession with technology is something we’ve spoken about before – there’s this sentiment that often permeates the space, hyping tech to be some sort of avenue that will serendipitously save us all from the climate crisis. From investors to the media, tech is often held up on a pedestal, and treated as though it’s going to be the reason or the way we change fashion for the better. From my lens, there’s no golden ticket – we need so many avenues and approaches – you know, we need regulatory change and we need corporate change, and we need individual change and collective advocacy. And as we’ve talked about before – there are so many important reasons to not only look into the future, but also to look back into history and culture. For example, we can learn so much from Indigenous practices – from farming techniques to dyeing approaches and beyond. And when it comes to tech today, more and more information is coming out that highlights the complications that can come with these new innovations, from an equity lens – I think of some of the conversations around AI connected to the *stealing* of art, or the way some brands have used AI to generate so-called diverse models, instead of actually hiring and paying Black and Brown Indigenous models. There’s a lot there. This week’s guest launched one of the early platforms dedicated to exploring the intersections of fashion and tech back in 2015, so she clearly has an affinity for exploring what technology can offer the fashion space. At the same time, she doesn’t buy into this sentiment that *tech will save us all* – instead, she thinks of it as one of many tools that are necessary to address fashion’s inequitable systems. This week’s episode goes down an array of tangents connected to fashion – from technology to policy to media, we’re getting into some of the important reasons that the future of fashion is intrinsically multifaceted. Quotes & links from the conversation: “We need to stop using innovation as a marketing tool — because I feel sometimes the fashion industry hasn’t got the ability to commit to the idea of innovation and push it forward so everyone can reap the benefits of technology but they’re very keen to use it as a marketing ploy to push forward an idea, a thought, an experience. And the problem I have with that is that they don’t commit to it — it’s a moment and I feel like it cheapens the technology, it makes people not take it as seriously as they could do. The view of what technology is to fashion is I guess muddied by the way it’s used as a marketing tool.” -Muchaneta (14:49) “The fashion industry is very me focused, rather than we focused — so how can we as an industry realize the enemy of my enemy is my friend, and work together for a common goal?” -Muchaneta (16:07) “If we are planting these great ideas in bad soil and expecting it to flourish, well, of course we’re going to fail. So, when it comes to being sustainable as a brand, you need to have it in your DNA, it needs to be part of your strategy in order for it to flourish.” -Muchaneta (17:45) “You can’t blame ignorance and lack of knowledge on your bad decisions because the information is there — it’s a question of whether you choose to become a catalyst for change or you choose to just continue trading like we’re back in 1996.” -Muchaneta (26:00) “Technology is not something that is going to save us — far from that — but what it will do — is make it easier for us to save ourselves.” -Muchaneta (29:03) “What we’re trying to use with technology — we’re not trying to take away the creativity of fashion — we’re trying to change how fashion does business.” -Muchaneta (31:00) (for those who want to stay ahead of the coming changes) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28279523

*Breaking It Down* with Rachel Arthur, lead author of The Sustainable Fashion Communication Playbook, an actionable guide co-published by UNEP and UN Climate Change 09/26/2023

*Breaking It Down* with Rachel Arthur, lead author of The Sustainable Fashion Communication Playbook, an actionable guide co-published by UNEP and UN Climate Change In episode 307, Kestrel welcomes Rachel Arthur, a strategist, journalist, and the Advocacy Lead for Sustainable Fashion at the United Nations Environment Programme, to the show. Rachel is the lead author of , which was published earlier this year by the United Nations Environment Programme and the UN Climate Change Fashion Charter. “Communicators themselves, on a couple of levels, have had the ability to participate and to contribute I think is what I’m looking for here, and that is the first of all. But they themselves, by being communicators, have a skill set that is missing in the sustainability space, which is around this notion of making something desirable, creative — making people fall in love with things. That is fundamentally what fashion does, and we need to redirect it toward sustainability.” -Rachel Are you a communicator in the fashion space? Whether it’s through your work or everyday life, communicating about sustainability and fashion can be challenging and complex. This week’s guest is the lead author of a new framework for fashion communicators – it’s called the Sustainable Fashion Communication Playbook, and it’s a deep dive into why we must all play a role in shifting the narrative. The Playbook provides actionable steps communicators can take including: establishing a foundation with verifiable information, acknowledging that fashion is integral in building culture, and highlighting the role storytellers must play in advocating for change. We address head-on one of fashion’s biggest issues today – misinformation. As the report highlights, A 2020 study by the European Commission found 53.3% of environmental claims communicated in the EU at large were vague, misleading or unfounded. And a fashion specific report by Changing Markets from 2021 finds that 60% of sustainability claims by European fashion giants are “unsubstantiated” and “misleading”. The Playbook recommends that one way communicators can break the cycle of misinformation is by leading with science. While this is absolutely necessary, I regularly hear frustrations over the lack of accessible scientific data and research available in the fashion space. We explore this tension as well. Telling stories is powerful and can influence change. Quotes & links from the conversation: “So, I don’t think that there is a silver bullet here — there isn’t the single answer in the playbook, but the intention is to open up this discussion and put it on the table and importantly say that marketers, communicators, anybody in that sort of job function, which basically means that they spend time communicating with consumers in some capacity, has a role that they can play here to help towards change.” -Rachel (16:58) , global community Rachel helped cofound /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28143080

Tameka Peoples of Seed2Shirt on rebuilding equitable + just cotton systems & fostering the reclamation of cotton acreage for Black farmers 09/19/2023

Tameka Peoples of Seed2Shirt on rebuilding equitable + just cotton systems & fostering the reclamation of cotton acreage for Black farmers In episode 306, Kestrel welcomes Tameka Peoples, the founder and CEO of Seed2Shirt, to the show. A Black-woman-owned vertically integrated ethical apparel production & boutique cotton merchant firm, is focused on rebuilding equitable systems and institutions. “You’re seeing laws put into place like the 1862 Homestead Act where there were millions of acres of land just given to white families. And Black people were at the same time, being burned out of their communities. What I mean by that is — there’s elements to this thing that we call fashion — that’s connected to raw commodity that’s connected to land that is a part of the blood, sweat and tears that Black people have put and poured into this economy and poured into this country.” -Tameka When we look back at agriculture in the United States, a lot of the origins of farming in this country were built on an extractive, harmful, and extremely damaging history. So much was stolen and stripped – from lives to land to livelihoods. We don’t talk enough in the fashion industry about its true origins – about who helped build the cotton industry – a textile that has been deemed and marketed as: *the fabric of our lives*. From 1765 to 1861, during the years of Chattel Slavery, $528 billion dollars worth of cotton were farmed – mind you, this happened with the use of enslaved labor. Fast forward through layers and layers of other significant historical moments to where we are today. While the cotton industry in the United States was literally grown by Black folks, today – the numbers say there are less than 1% Black Cotton Farmers. This week’s guest understands so much depth of this history – and when she discovered she couldn’t buy a t-shirt made by Black folks using cotton farmed by Black folks, she decided she had to make one. This was the seed that has continued to grow and flourish into what she is doing today – while many may call it conscious fashion, for her – it’s so much more than that. As a self-proclaimed solutionist, she’s rebuilding equitable systems and institutions, with intention and care, while supporting Black farmers along the way. Quotes & links from the conversation: “Yes, they love Black images and Black body and Black fashion and they use us to sell to people for industry. But what part of that industry do we own and control?” -Tameka (9:45) “You’re seeing laws put into place like the 1862 Homestead Act where there were millions of acres of land just given to white families. And Black people were at the same time, being burned out of their communities. What I mean by that is — there’s elements to this thing that we call fashion — that’s connected to raw commodity that’s connected to land that is a part of the blood, sweat and tears that Black people have put and poured into this economy and poured into this country. So, we are building back land elements, we’re building back equity for Black cotton farmers, we’re building an institution that portions of it we control that they can plug into, and then, we’re part of larger institutions that allow farmers that are in this space allow their cotton to move through.” (14:29) -Tameka “Everyone has a responsibility to figure out what their role is in doing their part. You walk around anywhere and there’s a recycling bin and they’re encouraging — hey, if that’s a plastic bottle, or if that’s paper or cardboard, put it here. So, everyone plays a role — we believe our programs really can change the world for the better.” (21:18) -Tameka “This is about bringing back livelihood, honor and justice into Black farming, Black cotton farming, Black production, and we can’t wait for anyone else to do it for us.” (38:04) -Tameka , Black owned & operated farm since 1877 (Seed2Shirt partner) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28080321

Lisa Diegel, Global Sustainability Director, on Faherty's Native Initiatives, what mutually beneficial relationships can look like in practice, and the nuanced ways brands must take responsibility for the products they put out into the world In episode 305, Kestrel welcomes Lisa Diegel, the Global Sustainability Director at Faherty, to the show. A family business, is focused on making high quality clothing. “They knew they wanted to do things differently and not follow that conventional way of take > make > waste in the fashion industry. They wanted to build a feel-good brand. And I think to do that, you need to be accountable and you need to take responsibility for the products you put out into the world.” -Lisa As we’ve explored on past episodes, the fashion industry has a deep history of appropriating and stealing ideas and designs. Our guest Manpreet Kaur Kalra, back on , said it so potently – “Fashion has been built on appropriation — it has been built on basically, stealing designs and concepts from communities that have been historically marginalized, and basically, reframing them to be quote unquote minimalist or really ethnic or boho chic.” This week’s guest (who is of First Nations heritage) works with a company that used to be one of those so-called appropriating offenders. And this is something they acknowledge blatantly on their website, stating – “For years, the fashion industry has exploited and appropriated Native prints — and for years, so did Faherty. Now that we know better, we must do better.” This is not something you typically see a fashion brand acknowledge in such an upfront way to their shoppers. It feels like an important and meaningful step forward in healing some of the extensive damage that comes from these extractive histories. You may be asking – what does *doing better* mean in practice to Faherty? To start, it means modeling a mutually beneficial relationship with Native and Indigenous artists, it means respecting ancestry, land, community and stories. And it means doing a lot of listening and a lot of learning. With the role of Global Sustainability Director, this week’s guest has a lot on her plate – but she’s also very tuned into the importance of slowing down in order to be able to continue doing this work. Quotes & links from the conversation: “So, for me, the appeal really was working for a smaller family-run business. You know, I had been working for large corporations and parent companies for about 15 years. And I felt like in this role, I could build a strategy using the knowledge and the skills that I had acquired over the years, but also be able to be really involved. It’s really nice to be able to Slack or text the cofounders and get an answer immediately without having to go through these corporate tiers of hierarchy and weeks or months of time to get approval on things. And then the cherry on top, as a Native person, as a person with this heritage, I was just so impressed by the Native initiatives and the storytelling that Faherty was doing around these initiates.” -Lisa (12:58) “In practice, it really starts from the very beginning — from the concept meeting — where the team sits down with some of our partners and really talks to them about what do these designs mean to them, what does it mean to their people, what are the stories behind them? And then, they really support how these artists want to be represented in our modern culture without sort of that stereotypical image that maybe a lot of people might think of when they see or hear of Native American culture. I think that is very special and unique.” -Lisa (15:50) , article in Fashionista that Kestrel mentions , book by Zahra Biabani that Kestrel mentions , Faherty’s new resale platform /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/28010271

Eric Liedtke of UNLESS on pressing fashion to ditch the plastic ingredients and ideating on what it will take for corporations to truly change 09/05/2023

Eric Liedtke of UNLESS on pressing fashion to ditch the plastic ingredients and ideating on what it will take for corporations to truly change In episode 304, Kestrel welcomes Eric Liedtke, the co-founder and CEO of UNLESS, to the show. A collective of innovators, engineers, artists, and activists, make plant-based streetwear designed to leave zero plastic waste. “I think sustainability is one of those hygiene words at this point — like everybody can talk themselves into they’re doing sustainable things. I think we need to get more specific. I think as marketers and storytellers, we need to really be very clear with our consumers what we’re doing. And you know, this crewneck that nobody can see today that I’m wearing, it’s gonna last as long as anything else, but when you’re done with it, it will go harmlessly back to earth. And I’m using some of our old product and some of our scraps actually as feed for my raised bed gardens at home. This stuff works and it makes good, nutritious soil that we can grow roses or cotton or tomatoes out of.” -Eric Have you ever heard that recurring question in the sustainability and fashion space? I’d say it’s also one that permeates the world of climate advocacy as well – and let’s be honest, it’s pretty binary-oriented in its framing. I’m talking about the question of which is needed most – individual action, governmental action or corporate change. I mean, let’s be real – we are in a state of emergency here, so all hands on deck is preferable, and many of these overlap, but you know, the mainstream narrative continues to search for the golden ticket that will get us all out of this mess. One thing I hear so much more nowadays than in recent years is – the need for corporations to change. There are petitions regularly circulated, there’s all the advocacy work organizations like are doing pushing brands to sign onto the International Accord for garment worker safety. And in alignment with this, there is a lot going on with legislation to try to pass legal frameworks that would hold brands accountable to do better. And on that corporate change note – at this current moment in time, we are amidst an era of strikes happening across different industries because the power holders on top don’t want to share with the folks working further down the hierarchy. From actors and writers in the entertainment industry to municipal workers and hotel employees, the pressure is on for corporations to change – to share a bigger piece of the massive pie they’re indulging in. But also – it’s important to acknowledge that there are so many folks across the corporate space working in sustainability and beyond, and trying to challenge the system from within to change. And let’s be real – that’s not an easy task with all the current systems in place. This week’s guest worked from the inside for a so-called *power player* for over 25 years trying to push for change, and then, he left to start his own company with a focus on collaborating with innovators, engineers, artists, and activists, to make plant-based streetwear that leaves zero plastic waste behind. Quotes & links from the conversation: “I did as much as I could when I was at Adidas to turn us from a brand that was focused on just virgin polyester use — as for those that don’t know, 70% of fashion and especially sports brands are made from petroleum. It’s basically been this advent of petroleum-based product called polyesters or nylons or spandexes, but it all comes from petroleum-based products, which is forever material. When you start to become aware of that, and you start to become aware of the degradation these forever materials have on the planet, on our fellow species, on ourselves, you find it harder and harder to whisper yourself to sleep. And those voices that were personal to you, come up louder and louder in your head. And you can’t unhear and unsee the things you’re doing. So, at a certain point, you’re like ok, I need to step outside and take this industrial experience I have from 26 years at Adidas and my passion for a better way and helping solve the world’s problems, and combine it into one effort, and that really was joining forces with a band of likeminded people to create the UNLESS Collective.” -Eric (9:30) Natural Fiber Welding (one of the companies UNLESS partners with) — “Luke obviously has this unique innovation of plant-based leather, 100% plant-based leather (the only one I’ve found by the way), and there’s a lot of plants being used for leather-type material — whether it be grapes or apples or coconut or cactus, I think there’s a lot of solutions out there. Most of them, if not all of them that I’ve found, are fillers for polyurethane which is another form of plastic and also need to have backing, which they have to glue a synthetic backing on the back for stability.” -Eric (21:45) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27945585

A new era of storytelling at Conscious Chatter, meet our newest team member Natalie Shehata & what slow media means for us in practice 08/15/2023

A new era of storytelling at Conscious Chatter, meet our newest team member Natalie Shehata & what slow media means for us in practice In episode 303, Kestrel welcomes Natalie Shehata, Conscious Chatter’s new Social Media Strategist + Storyteller, to the show. A sustainable stylist, community organizer, speaker and writer, brings exceptional experience and knowledge to how we approach storytelling. “I feel as though storytelling for me has been a very powerful medium in being able to instigate change. I feel like stories really shift culture and they can shift culture on a really large scale as well. But personally for me, I’ve kind of learned so much over the years through storytelling. And I think it’s important that we kind of acknowledge that storytelling and stories in general is a vehicle for survival for a lot of people — for belonging, for connection, for hope. Stories are, especially for the BIPOC community as well, are our legacy in a lot of ways.” -Natalie Welcoming Nat to join the Conscious Chatter team is an absolute dream — I don’t even know how else to say it. Being able to work alongside someone that I admire and respect on such a deep level is beyond incredible. And if you aren’t familiar with Nat, I’d also recommend listening back to episode 250, where she joined me for a conversation on . With this new shift in the Conscious Chatter dynamic, we put together this episode as a unique sort of refresh and check-in — to let you all know where we’re at with the show, what we’re focused on, and where we’re going. Here are some of the key elements we explore: How Nat and I first came together and what it means to have her working on the Conscious Chatter team What storytelling means to Nat and some of the ways we align on the responsibility that comes with crafting narratives What is slow media and what does it look like in practice The challenges that come with telling stories through a slow media lens An update on when you can expect new episodes to drop Our big picture goals for the show (individually and collectively) and how we hope to continue infusing intentionality and care into the content we create Quotes & links from the conversation: “We really want to be able to ensure that the stories and perspectives shared by the guests on the show are kind of always in circulation. And I guess what I mean but that is — really making sure that the perspectives, the knowledge, the wisdom that people share throughout the show — it’s not a situation where a show is released, and then that’s it, we don’t go back to it and we don’t reference those ideas. We want to be able to go back to those episodes and to the guests that have appeared on the show, and really be able to continuously keep those perspectives in circulation, and kind of keep resurfacing those ideas.” -Nat (11:35) “Language is super important to both of us, and really thinking about the way that we phrase things, and making sure that it is accessible to as many people as possible, and that we meet people where they are at on their journey.” -Nat (20:40) “Often when we’re telling stories we have to market it or promote it in a way where this guest is knowledgable on this area — whatever that may be — but when you go back and listen to these people, because they are people, they are multi-faceted individuals, and they may speak on one issue, but when you go back to listen again and again to these guests, they have so much knowledge to share, on so many different topics, that may not be their field of “expertise”. For me, what I’m really wanting to do is share that with the community and share that as individuals we are multi-faceted and we have a lot of knowledge and deep wisdom. The more we humanize that knowledge, we realize that we’ve just got so much to offer, but also, that we are flawed as humans as well, and we’re all just at this trying to do our best.” -Nat (27:08) “We’re not getting into these states of mind where we’re having all these light bulbs go off or all the dots are connecting because we’re not giving ourselves enough space without notifications interrupting us to get to those places.” -Kestrel (29:49) “It alway feels like you can never keep up, you’re further behind, there’s more things to read, more things to listen to, more things to watch, more things to catch up on, or more things you need to be posting — it all is just so much on a constant basis.” -Kestrel (34:55) Hosted & Co-Produced by Dominique Drakeford (mentioned by Nat) , Kestrel acknowledges her impact when reminding us that sustainability means getting active in your local community (previous episode featuring Natalie) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27758274

Jessie Frances (@cappuccinosandconsignment) on the complications with resale's *moment* — fast fashion addictions becoming secondhand addictions, luxury's obsession with exclusivity & the gentrification of thrifting In episode 302, Kestrel welcomes Jessie Frances (@cuppuccinosandconsignment) to the show. Highly knowledgeable on the world of preloved fashion, holds a BFA in Fashion Design and French with a Minor in Art History. Through her work, she shares ideas around luxury vintage savviness, smart travel tips, and slow-living hacks, and also consults companies on luxury resale. “It is an addiction. Even when you look on YouTube and whatever social media, you see thrifting hauls. I remember hauls were just specifically for new items — you only did hauls with your fast fashion. It was very singular. Now, there are thrifting hauls multiple times a week. And we have just replaced fast fashion with thrifting.” -Jessie I think it’s pretty undeniable that RESALE is having a moment. If I think about the shifts in recent years, when it comes to the secondhand market, it’s overwhelming. I remember thrifting in high school, growing up in the midwest – and for me, it was always about searching for pieces that no one else had – and thrift shops were where I could find those unique pieces. But the changes since then – almost 20 years later – are immense. I was looking at , and in it, they say that – The global secondhand market is expected to nearly double by 2027, reaching $350 Billion. And the global secondhand apparel market is expected to grow 3X faster on average than the global apparel market overall. Clearly, there is a lot of GROWTH happening in resale fashion. This week’s guest is highly knowledgeable on the world of preloved fashion – she started thrifting as a kid out of necessity. As she reflects – at that time, you didn’t want anyone to see you at a thrift store and you didn’t want anyone to know you were wearing thrifted styles. So, she would always find ways to customize her secondhand pieces, to give them an extra edge. Since then, as I mentioned, a lot has changed. This week’s guest now consults companies on luxury resale. We talk about whether this growth in resale is connected to folks simply transitioning their fast fashion addictions to secondhand instead. We talk about luxury’s obsession with exclusivity and how that conflicts with the potential accessibility of the resale market. And we touch on the gentrification of thrifting and how this weaves into the luxury resale conversation today. Quotes & links from the conversation: “So, it’s being very, very strategic when you’re shopping with thrifting because it really is a thrill. It has turned into like modern-day hunting, it’s for sport now. People get such a thrill because the prices for the most part (depending on what city you’re in), the prices are so good that you just want to buy, buy, buy. You love saying — look how much I got for $100. But you want to know — how much out of the $100 haul are you keeping? Are you returning $85 of that to your next thrift store run? So, it’s really being strategic when you are thrifting.” -Jessie “Not just in fashion, we’ve all seen what happens when big brands come in and take over smaller ventures. I mean, look at ride sharing, without naming any names. You see how it changed things. So, it makes me question — ok, now you’re offering me, let’s say 80% of what I paid. Now, once you wipe out these smaller consignment shops, once you wipe out these smaller resellers, what’s gonna happen then? Cause now you have the upper hand. So, are you now gonna offer me 50% for what I purchased? Or are you just not gonna offer anything at all because you know — there’s no competition.” -Jessie (27:19) , article in Fashionista Kestrel mentions “It’s accepting, knowing and being secure in your style. Once you know who you are, you’re not swayed by a trending hashtag, by what the princess is wearing — when those things no longer matter, when you know who you are, it makes life so much easier.” -Jessie (47:07) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27498060

Winona Quigley of Green Matters Natural Dye Company on reimagining what *scale* means for natural dyeing & how accessibility and limits also play into the idea of *growth* 07/11/2023

Winona Quigley of Green Matters Natural Dye Company on reimagining what *scale* means for natural dyeing & how accessibility and limits also play into the idea of *growth* In episode 301, Kestrel welcomes Winona Quigley, the founder and CEO of Green Matters Natural Dye Company, to the show. Based in Lancaster County PA, is dedicated to bringing pollution-free color to the textile industry by using all-natural dye ingredients. “I think that what brands are going to have to embrace about working with more sustainable fibers and textile-making practices, is the fact that we are working with plants. Not just for the dyes, but for some of those fiber crops — they are plants. And it’s like winemaking, in that we need to think about production not as how do we make something identical a hundred thousand times, but how do we build production systems that not only account for, but embrace the organic nature of working with plants.” -Winona Something that has become a knee jerk response – whenever someone starts a business endeavor within the sustainability space – is to ask about how SCALABLE that venture is. It’s a question that I found myself asking on a regular basis early on with the show 7 years ago, and something that I have become increasingly aware of in my discussions. I mean – it’s obvious once you step back and get a little perspective – we are all entirely entrenched in the prevailing ideals of our capitalistic system, and it makes us regularly think that in order for something to be successful, it must constantly grow from an economic lens. I’m not saying we shouldn’t talk about scale, but maybe it’s time to reimagine what it actually means. Especially for those of us advocating for a different fashion system than what currently exists. This week’s guest is specifically working to scale natural dye techniques through their professional fabric dyeing services. A lot of the time, we hear about natural dyeing on a very small scale, a craft that folks experiment with at home or in textile art spaces. But for our guest’s company, they have an intention to do natural dyeing at scale, per se. We talk about what SCALE means for them, how they’re reimagining it from various angles, and how “limits” come into play with the way they approach scaling in practice. Quotes & links from the conversation: , company Winona mentions (first big project she did was for them) “So that’s a really interesting challenge, I think, for our generation of business owners is — how can we solve the problem we’re hoping to solve, make enough money to pay everybody, and not expect to embark on this endeavor just because we’re trying to make as much profit as possible.” -Winona (28:53) , a dahlia supplier Green Matters works with by Green Matters , Winona mentions their work (founder of Blue Light Junction) , company growing indigo in the U.S. (company based in Bangladesh) Green Matter’s Green Matter's Green Matters /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27433308

Scientist Dr. Lisa Erdle of 5 Gyres on what we know about microfiber shedding from clothing & the solutions can make an impact 07/04/2023

Scientist Dr. Lisa Erdle of 5 Gyres on what we know about microfiber shedding from clothing & the solutions can make an impact In episode 300, Kestrel welcomes Dr. Lisa Erdle, the Director of Science and Research at , to the show. A microplastics researcher and lifelong sailor, Lisa is passionate about keeping waterways clean for wildlife and people. “A load of laundry can shed anywhere in the range of hundreds of thousands to millions of microfibers, depending on how you wash and what you wash. There can be 850 times more microfibers shed from a high-shedding item compared to a low, so the textile design really matters. And washing isn’t the only source of microfibers to the environment — we know there’s also dryers, carpets and upholstery, cigarette butts, wet wipes, there’s quite a long list. But the one that we know the most about, and one we have a solution for, is our washing machines.” -Dr. Lisa Today, we hear a lot about microfibers in our oceans and waterways, and how they are an issue we’re facing. There are consistent news articles out there about it. At the same time, the narrative is generally very much aligned with polyester and synthetics and you know, the plastic side of things. But as this week’s guest reminds us – all fabrics shed microfibers. And it’s important to note that when fibers shed from our clothing, it’s not just the base fiber that is of concern – whether it’s cotton or polyester, a natural fiber or a synthetic material – these fibers are generally also carrying some sort of chemical cocktail (a mix of dyes and treatments and coatings that are added to the fabric throughout the supply chain). You may be asking – how are all these fibers ending up in our waterways? According to researchers, the biggest culprits are washing machines. But these microfibers can also shed from dryers and even simply from walking around throughout the day. All of these layers make understanding the impacts of microfibers on people and the planet very complex. But as much as we don’t know, we also know enough from a scientific lens, to act. There are solutions out there that can at least help slow down the rate of microfibers released into the environment. Quotes & links from the conversation: , study Kestrel mentions , research paper that Dr. Lisa contributed to , research paper that Dr. Lisa contributed to , organization that Dr. Lisa mentions (California filtration bill) “The research on microfibers shows that used clothing typically sheds less than new clothing, poorly constructed garments shed more microfibers than well constructed garments. So, buying used when possible, or buying higher quality garments and washing less, washing cold — these are all things that can reduce your microfiber footprint.” -Dr. Lisa (40:58) 5 Gyres 5 Gyres (in Spanish) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27365022

Liz Spencer of Dogwood Dyer on growing organic natural dye gardens to coax color from plants & acknowledging the cultural origins of dyestuffs along the way 06/20/2023

Liz Spencer of Dogwood Dyer on growing organic natural dye gardens to coax color from plants & acknowledging the cultural origins of dyestuffs along the way In episode 299, Kestrel welcomes Liz Spencer, the natural dye wizard behind Dogwood Dyer, to the show. With experience in both tending organic natural dye gardens and coaxing color from plants, has devoted her artistic practice to discovering as much as possible about color that can come from plants. “That’s sort of the pathway to understanding — is having the time to be intimate with one thing in particular like indigo or any dye plant, especially if you’re growing your color, or even growing your own fiber — is spending a whole year just getting it to where you have the raw material, and then starting the process of creating the color or creating the textile. It really affords you ample time to ask many questions, and to holistically get to know it.” -Liz Something that’s super important to me within this conversation is cultural sustainability – and ensuring we are acknowledging and respecting the roots of cultural traditions and craft techniques that have origins within many Black and Brown Indigenous communities. As many of you have heard my guests and myself talk about over the years – the mainstream sustainability movement has done a lot of stealing and co-opting of knowledge and ideas, without crediting where these concepts originated. Ever since I read an article by Nathalie Peña in Katie Pruett’s Ethical Style Journal, I instantly think of these realities with regard to natural dye techniques. For example – the dusty pink color, also known as millennial pink – that has been trending for the last several years has origins in Mexican culture, with the color being derived from avocado pits. But rarely do we hear this origin story from natural dyers or folks using these techniques in the space today. This week’s guest has a voracious curiosity when it comes to all things natural dyeing. She has been growing plants for natural color and experimenting with adding color to garments using natural dyes for years now. As a white woman in the sustainability space, I admire the deep learnings Liz has collected, with regard to the cultural origins attached to the techniques she uses, and the ways she continues to work to find creative and thoughtful ways to honor these roots. We get into these layers, as well as more on the differences between synthetic, biosynthetic and natural dyes, and some nuanced thoughts around the so-called *scalability* of natural dyes. Quotes & links from the conversation: , article from Ethical Style Journal that Kestrel mentions in intro (Conscious Chatter episode 274 that Liz mentions) “Those stable colors, I feel are worth the investment, but it just takes more time. And so, that’s the biggest difference between retrieving brilliant colors with natural dyes vs synthetic dyes. And each has its consequence. One is — with natural color, more time investment. And then, one is — with synthetic dyes, the potential for having to problem solve when it comes to the product, the potential toxicity of synthetic dye effluent and what’s left over that’s really not biodegradable.” -Liz (29:27) “I think it’s really important for anyone that gets into natural dyeing or starts on a path to do conscious digging and question-asking when sourcing the dyestuffs, and then of course working with them. Because you invariably will uncover complicated and painful context of history of these beautiful colors. I always recommend too — if you have the privilege to work with any of the dyes, in situ of their native habitat that they come from, or if you’ve worked with any of the dyers who hold the dye knowledge within their cultural and historical lineage — to share their work and to encourage others to seek out from them, to go and learn from them if they’re seeking students. It’s really important to understand the provenance and the historic context of the material for the artist, I believe — it’s part of exploring the dyes and then paying respect to all of those who have contributed to millennia of this knowledge base that we all now benefit from.” -Liz (35:26) & (natural dye houses scaling dye production in the U.S.) (making biosynthetic natural dyes from agricultural waste) (biosynthetic dye made from wood waste) (natural dye knowledge for anyone) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27205782

Researcher Anjana Baburaj on the pervasiveness of Shein & the ways in which social media and the drive to increase social status are directly fueling the overconsumption of clothing 06/13/2023

Researcher Anjana Baburaj on the pervasiveness of Shein & the ways in which social media and the drive to increase social status are directly fueling the overconsumption of clothing In episode 298, Kestrel welcomes Anjana Baburaj to the show. An impact-focused strategist and communications specialist, works with mission-driven organizations to leverage communication platforms to increase visibility and achieve sustainability and impact goals. “No matter how much we try to control — if we keep overconsuming, we’re not getting anywhere with anything that we’re doing for sustainability. So, that is one of the reasons I wanted to know — why is this happening? And that’s how I got into my research.” -Anjana If you’ve been following along over the last couple of years, I have often brought up the links between fast fashion and fast media. In today’s world, I believe the only way to slow down fashion is to also slow down media – since fashion and media are intrinsically linked predominantly around driving consumption. This leads me to this week’s guest, who recently conducted some powerful research focused on fashion, social media, and consumption. Have you heard of the TikTok Shein haul trend? You may have seen it – basically, it involves individuals sharing all the items that they purchased from ultra fast fashion brand Shein in a video (or haul). Sometimes they disclose how much money they spent on the clothing, and as this week’s guest concludes, it’s largely interconnected to showcasing social status. The United States is Shein’s largest market – I have personally experienced their aggressive social media tactics – I get these messages that are tagging me in a visual telling me how to become a Shein ambassador. I feel like I am constantly flagging them as spam and blocking the accounts, but they never stop rolling in. The surprising thing is that it’s not Shein’s actual *influencers* or *paid partners* that drive the company’s sales – instead, it’s User Generated Content, which is basically content individuals post on social media without receiving any payment. They do it at their own will, and it’s fueling the continual growth of this ultra fast fashion brand. There is so much to break down when it comes to these layers — tune in to hear more directly from Anjana. Quotes & links from the conversation: “The reality is that we will always be pressured to consume more — that is how business works. Because the idea of growth is tightly linked to economics of sale, and that is how even the fundamentals of GDP work. And we can see that the developing countries will soon catch up with the developed nations in terms of the amount of consumption, which is bad. But to change that, the definition of growth should change — GDP should probably not be the sole indicator of how a nation is classified as developed. And systems should change. This will take more time and effort, but reducing consumption and choosing wisely, even it is from a mass-market brand, can be done faster if individuals and communities engage in conscious consumption.”-Anjana (35:53) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27140136

Lizz Leral of Quilting For Community on the links between quilting and mental health, and how accessing the flow state via hand-oriented activities can help unlock answers to life's questions In episode 297, Kestrel welcomes Lizz Leral, the Executive Director of Quilting for Community, to the show. A nonprofit organization, is focused on building community by teaching the art of quiltmaking. “The act of focusing on such a small area of the world — nothing else exists in that little area but that piece of fabric, and whether you’re measuring or you’re cutting or you’re pressing — and my experience has been that when you’re in that state, the answers for the other questions come to you.” -Lizz Over the last several years, I’ve been super curious about the links between activities we do with our hands and our mental health. I’ve read research about how quilting or other crafting activities can reduce overall stress and provide benefits for our mental health. There’s this idea of being in the FLOW state, or this feeling of being entirely in the moment and hyper-focused, and in a sort of zone. Amidst today’s world where speed reigns above all else in many circumstances, this is something that I find very interesting. According to books like , we are having a harder and harder time accessing the flow state today – because we are constantly interrupted by a text or an email or a DM or whatever other random notification that comes through. Or let’s be real – we also just get that urge to check our email or texts or IG or whatever, because most of us are addicted in one way or another to our tech. In the book I mentioned, Stolen Focus, it’s explained that if you get interrupted while focusing on something, on average, it takes 23 minutes for you to get back into that state of focus. But like I mentioned, certain HAND-ORIENTED activities can help transport us to that special place. One of them being – QUILTING. This week’s guest has a powerful story that led her to quilting. After feeling the significant mental health benefits of it herself, she’s now found creative ways to share it with others through her nonprofit. Quotes & links from the conversation: “I know that it’s possible to do things and to have an impact on your community using the things that already exist. Sometimes people have an idea to do something, and what stops them is — oh, how can I afford this and I’m going to have to get all these things. And they go on Amazon and they add it all up, and they say: I can’t do it. And I think we’re missing that — look a little deeper; everything you need is here.” -Lizz (29:02) , research from The Journal Of Public Health , mentioned by Lizz (the places you go when you aren’t at home or work) (access free quilting classes there) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/27059172

Kelly Drennan of Fashion Takes Action on the importance of youth education that centers fashion's impact on people + the planet 05/23/2023

Kelly Drennan of Fashion Takes Action on the importance of youth education that centers fashion's impact on people + the planet In episode 296, Kestrel welcomes Kelly Drennan, the founder of Fashion Takes Action, to the show. A Canada-based non-profit, works to remove barriers to sustainability through education, awareness, research and collaboration. “We often talk about our school program, and just fashion is inherently cool, you know. And so, we’re able to really, through our school program, touch on some of these bigger, broader climate change issues, but through the lens of fashion, which for kids is relatable and cool. They get up every day and they put on clothes, but they don’t get up every day and drive a vehicle or pay the energy bills or go grocery shopping. So, for us, it’s just a really great way to reach them and we try to do it in a way that’s cool.” -Kelly Have you looked into educational programs around fashion and sustainability? Or maybe you have completed a program focused on sustainability or fashion and sustainability? The options out there are definitely growing in the higher education realm, but I think there is still a lot of work to do when it comes to ensuring the curriculum becomes more holistic and includes the root issues that have led to why we are where we are today. But we are seeing changes at the higher education level, which is important. At the same time, what about kids? What about our youth? When are they getting exposure to questions like: Who made my clothes? What are my clothes made out of? What does a fashion supply chain look like? I hear whispers from folks in my community that little projects connected to fashion and sustainability are sneaking their way into elementary and high school education through educators who care about it, but on a large scale, I rarely hear that our young people are getting access to learn about why what we wear matters, on so many levels. This week’s guest developed a program back in 2014 to help teach youth about the impacts of fashion. While it was delivered in person by educators for several years, their workshops are now available online. As she says – “If we can reach these young people before they’re out there in the world buying things, then, maybe we have a better chance at changing that behavior.” Quotes & links from the conversation: “We realized early on — we weren’t just going to be working with industry, because if consumers (I hate that word, I know we all hate that word now), but if the general public wasn’t aware of the negative impacts of the industry and what sustainable alternatives there were, then they weren’t necessarily going to have access to sustainable designers. And so, we always felt that we needed to keep educating the general public, while at the same time, supporting the industry.” -Kelly (10:22) (RCGD Global x Fashion Takes Action Video Series) /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/26922954

Rayouf Alhumedhi, creator of the hijab emoji, on examining Gen Z's shopping behavior & highlighting why product designers should rethink existing product before designing new 05/16/2023

Rayouf Alhumedhi, creator of the hijab emoji, on examining Gen Z's shopping behavior & highlighting why product designers should rethink existing product before designing new In episode 295, Kestrel welcomes Rayouf Alhumedhi, the creator of the hijab emoji, to the show. Deeply passionate about bridging the creative space and tech, Rayouf founded the to push for digital representation for Muslim women around the world. She was named one of Time’s Most Influential Teens and Forbes 30 under 30; currently, is a senior at Stanford majoring in Product Design. “I think there needs to be more thoughtful exploration of when is it good to make new product and when is it even better to rethink existing product? Like I mentioned in my table furniture building project, I noticed my team and I were getting excited about —what if we do this and we do that and we do that. But at the end of the day, all of that requires extra junk in the world. And yes, it's an enhancement and yes, it's an add-on, but it's not necessary at all. So, I wish more design students or more product design students had that framework instilled in their minds as an educational toolkit.” -Rayouf One point that comes up often in the sustainability and fashion dialogue is the way that our intentions are not aligning with our actions. There’s this sort of dissonance between what we say vs what we do. As a report by Zalando from 2021 showed, we often say we believe in shopping more mindfully, but often don’t actually follow through when it comes to acting upon those ideas. For example – While 60% of survey respondents said transparency is important to them, only 20% actively seek out information as part of the purchasing process. Or while 60% of consumers say repair, second-hand and sustainable disposal are important to them, but only 23% repair their clothes and 25% regularly buy second-hand. While data can be skewed or interpreted in one way or another, the important sentiment that I take from this sort of information is that changing behavior is CHALLENGING, and it doesn't happen with the flick of a switch. This is something that this week’s guest and I riff on throughout this episode – questioning the reasons why, trying to understand what’s leading to this disconnect, specifically analyzing how Gen Z fits into these behaviors, and ideating on what could potentially help propel more positive behavioral change moving forward. But again – it’s not all on the individual. It’s also about corporations and regulation and DESIGN – something that this week’s guest is very passionate about. As she says, it’s important to design for the extremes, to ensure products are created with more accessibility and equity from the get-go. Sidebar – this week’s guest is pretty legendary – she’s also the creator of the hijab emoji – which she developed 6 or so years ago, at the age of 16. Quotes & links from the conversation: , brand Rayouf mentions “If being a part of your sustainable company or your sustainability vision is already an added value, buying something feels less of a burden. And if I know my friend is also buying it, naturally, I’m going to be pulled to it.” (21:46) -Rayouf , article in CNN about Rayouf’s work on hijab emoji featuring Rayouf that Rayouf contributed to /episode/index/show/consciouschatter/id/26855448

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