ellisconversations's podcast

In this podcast, Jamil Ellis talks with his father, retired Federal Magistrate Judge Ronald Ellis, about the historical role of law in shaping the societal structures which act as barriers to attaining the American dream. They discuss why "legal" is not a synonym for "moral" and why law, a prime actor in creating the problems, can and should be a part of the solution. Join them as they talk about wealth, voting, education, criminal justice and other topics which divide the nation. https://ellisconversations.tumblr.com/

Artificial, but not Intelligent: How biased data can affect AI employment models. 08/05/2026

Artificial, but not Intelligent: How biased data can affect AI employment models. In this episode of Ellis Conversations, Jamil Ellis and retired Federal Magistrate Judge Hon. Ronald L. Ellis continue their two-part conversation on employment discrimination, civil-rights enforcement, and the future of equal opportunity. Part One looked at the history of employment discrimination law, disparate impact, and the role of the EEOC, Justice Department, courts, and civil-rights lawyers in building protections for workers. In Part Two, the conversation turns to a newer and less visible frontier: algorithmic hiring systems. Jamil and Judge Ellis discuss what happens when software platforms, recruiting tools, and AI-driven screening systems sit between job applicants and employers. If these systems score, sort, rank, or filter applicants before a human being ever sees them, are they simply neutral tools — or are they powerful gatekeepers that must be accountable under civil-rights law? The episode focuses on the legal and moral questions raised by cases like Mobley v. Workday, where plaintiffs allege that algorithmic hiring tools can reproduce bias based on race, age, and disability. Jamil and Judge Ellis explore why machine-learning systems trained on past employment patterns may risk automating old discrimination in new forms, and why transparency, data, state-level regulation, and accountability for technology middlemen may become essential civil-rights issues. At the heart of the episode is a simple question: Civil-rights law cannot stop at the edge of the algorithm. If technology helps decide who gets opportunity, who makes sure the technology is fair? Related Ellis Conversations Episodes This episode builds on a longer Ellis Conversations thread about civil rights, courts, democracy, and the systems that decide who gets full access to opportunity. Related episodes: “In Sheep’s Clothing: When facially neutral policies and practices mask intentional discrimination” A direct companion to this episode. We discuss employment discrimination, disparate impact, and why neutral-looking rules can still produce unequal outcomes. “The American Dream at 250” Connects the AI accountability conversation to the larger question of who gets access to the American promise. “Loving Day, The Warren Court, The rights they want to erase” Looks at the Warren Court’s civil-rights legacy and today’s rollback of protections — background for why new AI systems need civil-rights accountability. “Deliberate, But No Speed” Explores how rights can exist on paper while enforcement is delayed, narrowed, or resisted — a key theme in thinking about algorithmic discrimination. “Claudine Gay: The Latest Victim in the Debate over DEI, Affirmative Action, and Meritocracy” Connects to how claims of “merit” and “neutrality” can ignore historical exclusion — the same concern raised by AI hiring tools marketed as objective. Full Ellis Conversations archive: /episode/index/show/ellisconversations/id/42333405

In Sheep’s Clothing: When facially neutral policies and practices mask intentional discrimination 07/13/2026

The American Dream at 250 07/04/2026

Loving Day, The Warren Court, The rights they want to erase 06/12/2025

Deliberate, But No Speed: How Supreme Court rulings have allowed public schools to remain segregated seventy years after Brown v. Board. 05/30/2025

Deliberate, But No Speed: How Supreme Court rulings have allowed public schools to remain segregated seventy years after Brown v. Board. The hosts discuss how desegregation under Brown was hampered in schools by a policy of “all deliberate speed” where the speed was often zero. In contrast, and despite the fact that in large portions of the nation education is separate and unequal, the Trump administration has begun an “all speed ahead” policy of eliminating decrees which contained desegregation requirements'. In this episode of Ellis Conversations, co-host Jamil Ellis and his father, retired federal magistrate Judge Ronald Ellis, reflect on the 71st anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education—not just the 1954 decision, but its overlooked 1955 follow-up. They explore the legal and societal impacts of desegregation mandates, the resistance that followed, and how today's rollback of civil rights enforcement—particularly around school desegregation—echoes familiar patterns. With real-life stories, including Ruby Bridges and Prince Edward County's school closures, the conversation traces decades of policy evolution—from Milliken v. Bradley to Roberts Court rulings that undermine systemic remedies for segregation. The episode also offers generational perspectives on optimism, protest, and the need for youth leadership in safeguarding educational equity. 👉 If you're concerned about the dismantling of civil rights protections in education and policing—or wondering how to equip young people to carry the legacy forward—this one’s for you. 🔗 Relevant Links & References: Brown v. Board of Education (1954 & 1955 decisions) Milliken v. Bradley (1974) Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1 (2007) Ruby Bridges Foundation Shelby County v. Holder (2013 Voting Rights Act decision) American Psychological Association – Implicit Bias The Heritage Foundation's "Project 2025" (mentioned indirectly) /episode/index/show/ellisconversations/id/36780410

The Company Trump Keeps: From David Duke to The Proud Boys to Project 2025 – Intended Consequences 07/11/2024

Voting is a Fundamental Right: Exercise It; You’ll Make It Stronger 06/26/2024

States Rights, Legal Wrongs: A Recurring Page from the Segregationist Playbook 02/12/2024

States Rights, Legal Wrongs: A Recurring Page from the Segregationist Playbook In this episode, the hosts discuss the history of invoking some form of States’ Rights theory to limit the efforts of the federal government to expand or protect the rights of persons within the United States Southern Manifesto Mississippi State Sovereign Commission . “Calhoun’s justification of nullification and secession as constitutional rights of the state also went beyond traditional states’ rights doctrine as they were based on an unprecedented notion of absolute state sovereignty. Most old states’ righters, including James Madison, condemned nullification as an extraconstitutional and un-republican theory as it was not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution and because it subverted the cardinal principle of republican government, majority rule.” "A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery." . “Before , made racial segregation in public schools unconstitutional, there was Mendez, et al. v. Westminster School District of Orange County, et al. This 1946 class-action lawsuit challenged the constitutionality of separate schools for Mexican American students in Southern California and eventually helped end public school segregation across the state.” (Jan 14, 1963) “On the same portico of the Alabama Capitol in Montgomery where Jefferson Davis was sworn in as president of the Confederacy, Alabama Gov. George Wallace delivered his inaugural address, telling the crowd, “In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!” Asa Carter, a member of the Ku Klux Klan, wrote his speech, which made national headlines and thrust Wallace into the national spotlight.” “I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of ‘interposition’ and ‘nullification’ — one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.” /episode/index/show/ellisconversations/id/29902928

Claudine Gay: The Latest Victim in the Debate over DEI, Affirmative Action, and Meritocracy 01/08/2024

From Jamestown to Charlottesville: Virginia and America’s racial divide 12/22/2023

Holding the Line: Sandra Day O’Connor’s legacy of bringing stability to the Supreme Court by protecting its established precedents. 12/06/2023

Black History: Never Equal; Never Protected: Up North to Indiana 09/08/2023

Black History: Never Equal; Never Protected - First Stop: Florida 08/08/2023

Colorblind Remedies for Color-Conscious Wrongs 07/04/2023

Not in Our Stars, but in Ourselves: How The Supreme Court Undermined Its Own Reputation 05/10/2023

The Fire This Time: Black History Surviving in the Time of Modern-Day Book Banning 02/10/2023

Martin Luther King: Waiting on His Dream 01/16/2023

They Don’t Dare Call It Treason: Our House is Under Attack. Where’s POTUS? 01/06/2023

Whose Constitution Is It, Anyway?: Originalism vs. The Living Constitution 12/17/2022

Inflation Reduction Act of 2022; A new hope for Black communities that have been divided, deprived, and denied opportunities to accumulate wealth 09/05/2022

Inflation Reduction Act of 2022; A new hope for Black communities that have been divided, deprived, and denied opportunities to accumulate wealth EPISODE SUMMARY The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022: A new hope for Black communities that have been divided, deprived, and denied opportunities to accumulate wealth. In this episode, the hosts discuss various policies and practices which have adversely affected Black communities and hindered the ability to build wealth. Also in the podcast are reasons why provisions in the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 can help begin the process of repairing some of the damage by fostering a community-based approach to environmental issues. Finally, Jamil tells the audience about the new company he founded with his brother, Jelani, A FEW KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE Historically, wealth has systematically been removed from black communities. Often that wealth was removed in ways that left communities in less desirable land leading to climate change disproportionately affecting people of color. It’s a great time to form partnerships that have the same goal of saving the planet and hopefully The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 will be a big step for focusing on that goal. Unified Ground’s goal is to enable these partnerships. Its mission is to build technology to connect existing organizations and businesses to Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) investments, with the goal to reduce the income and wealth gap and lift up communities of color. MORE ABOUT UNIFIED GROUND Vision Our vision is to close the income and wealth gap in vulnerable communities because a sustainable planet is not possible without an equitable society. Climate change disproportionately affects vulnerable, low-income as well as Black, Latino, and Indigenous communities. We believe that strengthening the resource networks of these communities is an integral part of creating a sustainable planet. If communities can hold onto more resources, they will better address current climate emergencies and make sustainable choices. Mission We are building the technology to connect existing networks of community organizations and businesses to Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) investments, with the goal to reduce the income and wealth gap and lift up communities of color. Problem Demand for ESG investments, already a rapidly growing requirement for business, will increase as the markets make it a requirement for publicly traded companies. Social Impact funds have a continual need to find verifiably impactful community-based investments. Some states and municipalities across the US have aggressive goals to reduce carbon emissions. We can only achieve these goals with successful investments in vulnerable communities and communities of color. Historically, these customers have had trouble engaging successfully with communities and local vendors. Why The Time is Now Climate Disasters are upon us - We are in the midst of another record season of fires, flood, drought, and hurricanes in the US. Climate Impact will be a business requirement - The 2022 IRA represents landmark climate legislation in the US. The SEC will have public companies report on their environmental impact starting with 2023. In addition to 2022 IRA, many states and cities are moving forward with aggressive climate policies Business Stakeholders are putting the pressure on - Corporate boards and internal stakeholders are demanding goals and verifiable impact results. Employees want to know their companies are not just committed to their climate and community impact goals, but making them a reality. Solution Unified Ground provides the services and technology platform to connect Environmental, Social, and Government investors with a network of community-based vendors and climate justice organizations. The 2022 Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) will be a catalyst for Climate Technology and Environmental Justice. To download the transcript, LINKS IN THIS EPISODE Check out Check out OTHER EPISODES OF INTEREST /episode/index/show/ellisconversations/id/23611190

From Loving vs Virginia to Roe vs Wade: Who gets to decide which rights get protected for Americans 06/11/2022

Brown vs. Board of Ed Anniversary 05/16/2022

Brown vs. Board of Ed Anniversary Photo credit: AP Images for Britannica.com EPISODE SUMMARY In this episode, we're going to focus on one of the most talked about cases in Supreme Court history. On May 17 1954, in a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court held in Brown versus Board of Education, that in the field of public education, the doctrine of separate but equal had no place, and that separate educational facilities were inherently unequal. A FEW KEY TAKEAWAYS FROM THIS EPISODE In terms of what it meant to the health of the nation, Brown versus Board of Education was the most significant case in the history of the Supreme Court. Part of what's in the DNA of this country is aspirational. And what Brown did was having a goal of providing equality. It's certainly true that we have fallen short in some of the things that we profess as a nation. The difference between where we want to be and where we are, is the engine that drives change. Judge Ellis read excerpts from the Appendix to the Congressional Globe, described here from “The Globe, as it is usually called, contains the congressional debates of the 23rd through 42nd Congresses (1833-73). There are forty-six volumes in the series based on the table found in the Third Edition of Checklist of United States Public Documents 1789-1909, Volume 1B (pp. 1466-69). The Globe is the third of the four series of publications containing the debates of Congress. It was preceded by the Annals of Congress and the Register of Debates and succeeded by the Congressional Record. The first five volumes of the Globe (23rd Congress, 1st Session through 25th Congress, 1st Session, 1833-37) overlap with the Register of Debates. Initially the Globe contained a "condensed report" or abstract rather than a verbatim report of the debates and proceedings. With the 32nd Congress (1851), however, the Globe began to provide something approaching verbatim transcription. The contents of the appendix of each volume vary from Congress to Congress, but appendixes typically contain presidential messages, reports of the heads of departments and cabinet officers, texts of laws, and appropriations. Speeches not indexed or referenced on the pages reprinting the debates appear in the appendix as well.” More specifically, I read from the 33rd Congress, Second Session.[1855] The first page of the Appendix is From the entry page you can jump to specific pages, and I read from page 234, Tennessee Senator And page 236, Indiana Senator To download the transcript, LINKS IN THIS EPISODE Appendix to the Congressional Globe, described here from The first page of the Appendix is Tennessee Senator Indiana Senator Check out OTHER EPISODES OF INTEREST /episode/index/show/ellisconversations/id/23106986

Qualified: Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, JCrew, and Jim Crow: Mind Your Place 03/23/2022

Affirmative Action: How We Got To Now 03/05/2022

Gifted and Talented Programs: So many children left behind 11/03/2021

Don’t Bother Me With Facts; I Know Truth: Why Combatting Bias is Hard 08/02/2021

The Assault on Critical Race Theory 06/19/2021

It wasn’t only Tulsa 06/01/2021

Technology and Justice: Medicine and algorithms 04/23/2021

Technology and Justice: Algorithmic Dangers in Facial Recognition, Jobs, and Education 04/07/2021

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