For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Welcome to the For the Love Podcast community. New York Times Bestselling author Jen Hatmaker’s life’s work is to lead and serve women as they genuinely show up for their own lives. In these conversations we need not fear the truth, or hard questions, or spiritual curiosity, or challenging unjust systems; that is literally why we are here, and we’re so glad you’ve joined us. We believe women living in freedom are the answer to all that ails society. When we are exactly who we are, how we are, where we are, as we were always meant to be, women are the 8th wonders of the world. For the love of all that is good, right, wrong, hard, fun, perplexing, wondrous and thought-provoking, Jen’s here for it all with eye-opening conversations with some of the best people on earth.

For the Love of Peace: You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith 12/06/2023

For the Love of Peace: You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith Are you one of those people that says “I’ll rest when I’m dead?” We can relate. As busy people–partners, parents, career drivers, caretakers and a host of other hats we wear, rest seems like an elusive and sometimes impossible task–especially during the holidays. To kick off our new series, For the Love of Peace, we’re here to tell you–you need and deserve rest. And lest you think rest is just getting 8 hours of sleep at night (wouldn’t we all love that), it’s more. We need emotional, creative, physical and mental rest, just to name a few. The stats are real; when we don’t rest we have increased cortisol levels, which then add to inflammation, which then add to every type of metabolic disorder that’s out there–from high blood pressure to cancer, to stroke, diabetes and more. It’s obviously important to figure out how to fix this rest deficit–but how? There is already a shortage of time for our overloaded to-do lists, not to mention being there for family, friends, work and exercise (if we even have time to fit that in). Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith has spent her career as an internal medicine physician, looking at the ways different kinds of rest are the little levers we can pull that renew our bodies, brains and souls. And good news–some of them only take 5 minutes to fit into our lives. When we put these rest practices into our lives, we avoid burnout, health issues and depression. Before you get to the end of seeing your own value to take care of yourself, consider Dr. Saundra’s advice and begin to respect the place that rest has in your life. By allowing it to sustain you, you’ll experience other areas of life much more joyfully.You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes: “When we put all of our buckets into sleep, we're in essence canceling out all of the other things I just mentioned because you can't get creative rest with your eyes closed in the bed, and you can't get emotional rest in the bed with your eyes closed. There are certain types of rest that you cannot hope to accomplish restoring with simply sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “If you're someone who has a tendency to do excessive multitasking–you have 15 to 20 tabs open on your computer, you're jumping from one thing to the next, or you're in and out of your inbox all day long–multitasking has a tendency to train the brain not to recall things because why should it have to recall something if it can just open up another tab?” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “High levels of sensory input can lead to sensory overload syndrome. A lot of us don't recognize our body's response. It's just a natural response to sensory overload. It's no different than if you have a two-year-old and you take them to a birthday party, they're good the first hour, but then like an hour and a half later they're screaming their head off or they're banging their feet on the ground– they’re experiencing sensory overload.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “When you're using creative energy, part of you can become depleted, and you’re filled back up through ways that inspire you. So it's important to identify which ways you get inspired and filled back up in creativity and innovation because failure to do that leads to a feeling of depletion that we can't fix simply by sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “Most of us have lost all respect for rest. We have great respect for work and we see it as the end all, but we don't really recognize that rest is actually what prepares us to be able to sustain ourselves within the work.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “There's a lot that goes along with the holidays. One of the things that we try to help people understand is that there have to be boundaries set, even within happy things like Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's; all the things that come at the end of the year. We need to have boundaries that are set so that expectations don't lead to us getting into becoming people pleasers. Other people have expectations that are not healthy for ourselves.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith “When we focus our attention on caring for the people that are in front of us by loving them well, to showing that we see them, that's the kind of spirit that I think most of us really want our holidays to be about; not about who got the biggest gift and who spent the most money or didn't spend the most money.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: - https://www.restorasis.com/ - https://amzn.to/46BqUU2 - https://www.restquiz.com/quiz/rest-quiz-test/ Guest’s Links: - https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/ - https://www.instagram.com/drdaltonsmith - https://www.facebook.com/DrSaundraDaltonSmith/ - https://bit.ly/47RTySa Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28931813

For the Love of Therapy: Two Friends Compare Notes On Therapy: Jen and Kelly 11/29/2023

For the Love of Therapy: Two Friends Compare Notes On Therapy: Jen and Kelly We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! ABLE | Visit and use code JEN to save at checkout FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: "In suffering there's this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering--that you're alone in that people don't know. All that reassurance when we say, 'Got that, yep. I had a thing.' It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted, and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it." - Kelly Corrigan “The fact is that I am deeply attached to my people and their happiness. It matters to me above all else, and if the only way not to feel that is to detach, then I'm not signing up. This means that when I'm feeling worried, it means I'm crazy about you.” - Kelly Corrigan “I think the most common thing that happens, and I don't think it's ill intent, but someone says 'Oh, I know. You know what happened to me. I had something just like that.' And it's so sweet. They're trying to relate and they're trying to normalize what's going on, and that can be really helpful. But they're probably wrong. That's the thing. You tell me your thing in five sentences and then I relate to it right away without saying, 'Tell me more. What else? Go on.' I probably don't have your thing right yet.” - Kelly Corrigan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: - https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-More-Stories-Learning/dp/0399588396/ - https://www.amazon.com/Glitter-Glue-Memoir-Kelly-Corrigan/dp/0345532856/ - https://bit.ly/49Gsxmt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-43/ - https://www.pbs.org/show/tell-me-more-kelly-corrigan/ - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Utopia_(film) Guest’s Links: - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/ - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en - https://twitter.com/corrigankelly?lang=en - https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor/ Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28834188

For the Love of Therapy: Freedom From Codependency with Melody Beattie 11/22/2023

For the Love of Therapy: Freedom From Codependency with Melody Beattie We’re back with some more therapeutic goodness as we approach the tail end of our therapy series with another fire episode! Awareness around mental health, trauma, dysfunctional family systems and more has been coming into the national awareness on a bigger level over the last 10 years. But back in 1986, the concept of codependency was really new. And unless you were deep into studying sociology or psychology or seeing a therapist yourself back then (also something that wasn’t as widely accepted), Melody Beattie’s book, Codependent No More, gave words to the masses who never had a way to describe these types of relationships in their lives. Codependency can worm its way into our lives—the definition being; those imbalanced relationships in our lives where one person enables another person’s self-destructive behavior (like addiction, immaturity, or even irresponsibility). It’s a bit insidious for those who don’t know what it looks like, and for so many, Melody’s book was a resource to help free themselves from something they may not have even recognized in their own lives. 35 years later, it’s still shining a light on those situations. Melody comes in with a scalpel to cut away to this very precise way of behaving and relating to another that is cloaked in good intentions and self-righteousness but is actually ruining our relationships. And fun fact, we were the very first podcast Melody has ever been on! Last year, she celebrated a new edition of her book honoring 35 years of its impact. Melody and Jen walk through how to recognize what codependency is and how it might be a part of your life and your relationships—which are the first important steps toward making an enormous change for the better. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Until I understood my codependency, I didn't really feel like I had a life. I was just responding to others wherever I went.” - Melody Beattie “Codependency is being so obsessed with other people that that's all we can see and so out of touch with ourselves that we don't even see that anymore.” - Melody Beattie “Seeing ourselves is probably the bravest yet most painful thing we're ever asked to do in this lifetime. Seeing ourselves every day for the rest of our lives, instead of focusing on the other person and figuring out what they need to do to be better, to make them happier, to live better lives, all the things that we really should be doing for ourselves, but nobody ever ever told us.”- Melody Beattie “The key to codependency is the victim story. Somewhere underneath everything, there is a victim story and we're just simply writing the next page or the next chapter of it every time we interact with someone.” - Melody Beattie “When we take care of a person in a way that we feel victimized by it, that is just keeping our victim story going. And that doesn't feel good. Although for many of us, it feels so comfortable.” - Melody Beattie “Is it important to me to enjoy my life–not your life, not his life, not her life–to enjoy my life today and to love myself, at least as much as I love others?” - Melody Beattie Melody’s Links: Website: Instagram: Facebook: Twitter: Resources Mentioned in This Episode: For the Love episode with Dr. Brene Brown: Earnie Larson Books: Sharon Stone’s biography: Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: Jen’s Instagram: Jen’s Twitter: Jen’s Facebook: Jen’s YouTube: *original episode broadcast previously on the For the Love Apple Premium Podcast Channel /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28733638

Jen’s Favorites: 7th Annual Christmas Gift Guide 11/15/2023

For the Love of Therapy: Wellness Doesn’t Come From a Product, It Comes From Within: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin 11/08/2023

For the Love of Therapy: Wellness Doesn’t Come From a Product, It Comes From Within: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin In this latest installment of our For The Love of Therapy series, we delve into a timely discussion on mental wellness with a focus on genuine self-care. Our guest, Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, a renowned psychiatrist and advocate for women, offers fresh insights that urge listeners to break free from the superficial beauty and wellness industry's narrative that is steadily being pushed at us through all kinds of media, but in a dizzying fashion on social media, in particular. Steering the talk away from quick-fix solutions, Dr. Lakshmin illuminates the essence of true self-care, which, in her research, links to four major chambers rarely associated with this concept. From the importance of saying 'No' when overwhelmed, to understanding that self-care is more than just a beauty regimen, she reminds us that wellness comes from within. Dr. Lakshmin, an accomplished writer for the New York Times and founder of the Gemma community, also shares insights from her book, 'Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included)'. Join us for this enlightening conversation and let's start redefining what wellness truly means. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We have to talk about the systems, the social structures that have gotten us to this place where the expectation for a woman, a mom to feel better is this very condescending, ‘well just go to a yoga class, just pour your bubble bath and a glass of wine and there… you'll feel better.’ I find that to be condescending at best, manipulative at worst.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Real self-care is an internal process. It brings you closer to yourself. It's a verb. It's not a noun.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Guilt is just there all the time when it comes to boundaries and when it comes to compassion too; how we talk to ourselves.“ - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin “Therapy is this cozy little corner where you can be with yourself and be curious.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: ) by Dr. Pooja Lakshmin Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28535498

For the Love of Therapy: Are You Happy? Dr. Sara Kuburic Wants Us To Stop Lying To Ourselves and Take Ownership of Our Choices 11/01/2023

For the Love of Therapy: Are You Happy? Dr. Sara Kuburic Wants Us To Stop Lying To Ourselves and Take Ownership of Our Choices It’s time for this week’s podcast therapy session and we’ve got another great therapist in our “office” as part of our For the Love of Therapy series. Dr. Sara Kuburic is an existential psychotherapist, author and the force behind The @Millennial.Therapist account on Instagram. Dr. Kuburic believes that each of us is a free and responsible agent who determines our own development through acts of our will. Though this isn’t always a popular view to take, as we often look to outside forces to blame for our unhappiness, Dr. Kuburic wants us to understand that we have this amazing opportunity to engage in life and we can take ownership and responsibility over our choices. In that vein, she asks a very important question: how much of what we deal with in life happens to us, and how much of it did we inflict on ourselves? (that’s a fun thing to spend a few hours pondering). But as a therapist, she helps people find tools to address whatever stage of life they’re–maybe it is a bad situation and you just can’t change it–but as she likes to ask: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” In addition to thinking about our lives existentially, Jen and Dr. Kuburic also discuss the concept of self-loss and how we can deceive ourselves into thinking we’re living the life we want, when our bodies are telling us otherwise by devolving into depression, anxiety and panic. Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about: What it’s like when you love the “idea” of who you are more than who you actually are–and how to stop lying to yourself What happens when not making a change in your life actually becomes more painful than changing Realizing that our bodies do have limits–no matter how strong you think you are or how strong you’ve been—your body is sending up red flags with feelings of anxiousness, fear or panic for seemingly no reason How sometimes our dedication to make something work can be so all consuming–even if that thing isn’t the right thing for our lives and hat commitment, which is normally a good quality, can lead us to our weakest moments if we don’t face up to the truth * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think I got into psychology to try to understand what makes humans tick and try to understand my own human experience.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that's really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think if you're stagnant, that's where the loss happens. That's when we overcommit to one version of ourselves. When you’re not being stagnant, you are always being fluid–I think you’re understanding the assignment, which is constant creation and adaptation of yourself to fit your experiences, your context, and what life is asking of you in that moment.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Stop assuming you know someone well enough to stop paying attention.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “I think having someone that I've known for eight years sit me down and just be like, ‘Hey, are you happy,” was the first time anyone, including myself, asked that question.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Someone else made the mess and now you have to clean it up when it wasn't your mess. But, the reason you're cleaning it up is because you deserve not to live in a mess, not because they deserve for you to clean it up. It's for you.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic “Until we understand what the consequences of our actions or inactions are, it's going to be really hard to take the next steps.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28470197

For the Love of Therapy: Jada Pinkett-Smith on Trauma, Grief, and the Power of Embracing Your Journey 10/25/2023

For the Love of Therapy: Jada Pinkett-Smith on Trauma, Grief, and the Power of Embracing Your Journey We’re in the thick of our “For the Love of Therapy” series, and this week we’re getting a full helping of candor and insight from the multifaceted actress and author, Jada Pinkett Smith. Jada candidly reveals another side to her journey that many might not know from her highly public persona, a story where she takes charge of her narrative in the face of what people have decided for themselves who they think she is. Jada recounts the formative and often traumatic events of her past, and talks in stark terms about her present day pain points. Without sparing the hard parts, Jada leans into what it’s like for her, as it is for so many of us to be a woman today, what it’s like to reckon with our trauma, and marriage is really like behind the curtain, in hopes that what she’s learned will resonate with other women, no matter what their story is. Jen and Jada compare notes from their own lives about: Jada’s encounters with complex trauma, PTSD, panic attacks, and suicidal ideation How mental health issues can visit anyone at any time, regardless of privilege or upbringing The slow acceptance to admitting they’ve faced trauma, thinking “others have had it worse” - and the continued work toward reckoning with that truth The reality that all of us, especially those in the public sector, will be judged by others, and a new understanding that judgment is most often about people’s own pain and how they’ve been hurt by others’ judgment, rather than it is about the person being judged Through sharing her life journey, which she covers in much greater detail in her newly released book “Worthy,” it’s Jada’s hope to encourage others navigating similar struggles towards wellness and understanding. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I just wanted to offer other women breadcrumbs that are on this journey called life. Our journeys aren't going to look exactly the same, but there are just some universal challenges that we have just being human and specifically being women. I just wanted to go, ‘Listen, I don't care what's going on. Instagram and Facebook, life is messy. Life is difficult. It's challenging. We're all trying to figure this out, and I'm just going to show you little things along the way that I figured out.’” - Jada Pinkett Smith “When you really start to understand the human condition, and when you really start to see people's fears, you really start to see people's pain. That's why people want to strike at you. That's why people want to spew whatever they can your way because of how they've been hurt, how they've hurt themselves, how they've been hurt from others' judgment.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I am so lucky--yes, my mother was deep in her addiction, but I'm going to tell you--she showed up [for me] at some of the most pivotal times.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It would take me years to really detach myself from chaos because chaos became normal for me.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “It's not other people's judgment that's the problem. It's how you judge yourself. When you know who you are and you are in the process of healing your self-judgment, you realize that any judgment that anybody's got on you is really a reflection of where they are sitting within themselves.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I know what kind of oxygen that would've given me if I had been able to hear someone talk about [mental health] in an honest way. I wouldn't think that I was crazy or I wouldn't have to feel so ashamed. I felt so much shame for feeling the way that I did, having the things that I had, because it's like, "well, what are you upset about?" And mental health doesn't have anything to do with that.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “I wanted to share that here is a person who seemingly had it all, who was looking for cliffs to drive off of, and it was a serious dire situation that nothing material could help me with.” - Jada Pinkett Smith “Even today is difficult for me to look at my life and say that I've suffered trauma. I didn't realize how much trauma I had. I know it theoretically, but I'm still in the process of believing it.” - Jada Pinkett Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28400888

For the Love of Therapy: Women and Emotions - No More Apologies: Dr. Anita Phillips 10/18/2023

For the Love of Therapy: Women and Emotions - No More Apologies: Dr. Anita Phillips Have you ever been told you are “too emotional,” or if you display sadness or anger that you’re “overreacting,” or (gasp) - even “hysterical?” Women have long had their emotions weaponized against them. And as part of our For the Love of Therapy series, we have a trauma therapist and mental health expert Dr. Anita Phillips at the mic to share her thoughts and findings on why embracing our emotions can be the key to living our most powerful life. Dr. Phillips extensively explores the societal pressures that often lead women to suppress their emotions. She argues that emotions are not a sign of weakness, but a source of strength, and should be embraced rather than hidden. Women's emotions are a reflection of their experiences and individuality, and they deserve to be expressed freely and without apology. She believes that if we can shift our perspective around emotions, we can achieve a healthier mental state and improved relationships, fostering a culture that values emotional authenticity and rejects unnecessary emotional censorship. Jen and Dr. Anita discuss: The agency we have over our emotions and we won’t flourish unless we stop and listen to what our bodies and our feelings are telling us That our emotions are not “red flags” they are clues that guide us to the best and healthiest way forward We shouldn’t see emotions as our enemy, and that internal war over them is not our destiny–we are created to flourish Principles from Dr. Anita’s book, The Garden Within * * * Thank you to our sponsors! - Get 10% and Free Shipping when you visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Not having an explanation for what's happening is its own form of trauma. The trauma overwhelms not only our body's capacity to cope with what's happening, but it breaks our frame of reference when we cannot explain this in any way. That is also traumatizing because the world becomes chronically unsafe.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I was having these experiences with my emotions and my body that did not line up with this idea that our thoughts reigned supreme. That's one of the things that opened the door to me looking at trauma more deeply.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “My emotional pain does not squelch my spiritual power.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “We've been taught as Christians that if we believe and have faith, it's going to turn out good. Then we wouldn't be crying. We wouldn't be sad or we wouldn't be scared. That's insane because we have bodies and we're humans.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Emotion brings flexibility to our decision-making that is important. We don't want robotic decision-makers. We want people who have heart, and who recognize humanity. Emotion has always been a part of human decision making.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Because we have stigmatized emotions in order to not feel the painful ones, we have disconnected from our bodies. That's another problem; seeing the body as a problem as well.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “Women are taught not to trust their gut, not to trust their intuition, but we have so much power in that space.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I'm emotional. I'm emotional all the time, and I'm so proud of that because I'm living the most powerful life I've ever lived because of that.” - Dr. Anita Phillips “I want to challenge people to stop every time they have a ‘glimmer’ moment, a joy moment, and just sit in it for 30 seconds and memorize how it feels in your body. Memorize the joy because you can revisit it later when you need to bring yourself back into a hopeful space as necessary.” - Dr. Anita Phillips Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28337594

For the Love of Funny: It’s Funny Where Life Takes Us Sometimes: Anjelah Johnson-Reyes 10/11/2023

For the Love of Funny: Laughing Toward The Light: Comedian Kevin James Thornton Finds Himself at 50 10/04/2023

For the Love of Funny: Tom Papa Takes His Comedy Personally 09/27/2023

For the Love of Funny: Tom Papa Takes His Comedy Personally We’re knee-deep in our “For the Love of Funny” series, celebrating all things hilarious and witty. Jen’s been a long-time fan and amateur participant in the world of comedy, and our guest today explores one of her tip-top favorite genres of comedy. He's a master of observational humor, turning even the most mundane moments of life into pure comedy gold. Our guest, Tom Papa, is not just a comedian—he's a whirlwind of talent with a remarkable career spanning two decades. From his uproarious Netflix specials "What A Day" and "You're Doing Great," to his writing and stand-up projects in comedy clubs and for shows like NPR’s "Live From Here," to his acting roles, Tom has done it all. He and Jen discuss the common theme of mining gold from your family to create some of your best comedy material (but avoiding presenting that said material to them, because family can be brutal critics). They also discuss Tom’s new passion–baking, and how between writing, doing comedy and various shows, he’s in the kitchen tending to all the processes involved with producing amazing bread and other baked goods. To that end, Tom also hosts his own podcast called "Breaking Bread with Tom Papa," where he invites guests for lively discussions over meals. Like a lot of comedians, Tom is more than just funny—he's a thoughtful, insightful individual who gives you something to think about between all the laughs. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! | Visit and use code JEN to save at checkout | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “My uncle Tony was really funny. He would sit at the table and hold court. Then some cousins were funny, and so I definitely gravitated toward those people; that always kind of informed me. And I started doing that around my friends very, very early.” - Tom Papa “[In my comedy] I relate through family and the small stuff. It's like it is observational, but it's not. It's very personal observational, in a way." - Tom Papa "When you’re around people that are doing what you want to do, in time, you just want someone to say, 'it'll work. Just tell me. It'll work out.' It's like sometimes you go to the doctor, 'just tell me everything's all right.'" - Tom Papa “[My favorite thing] is standup, but that almost goes without saying. That's just me. So to even call that one of the things is kind of not fair. It's so good. It's so great. You get the response, you get the physical, the mental, the applause, the scariness, all of it is so raw and potent out of the other stuff that I do." - Tom Papa "One of the biggest hurdles that writers have is, is your own head saying, 'is this good enough?' And you start tearing it down and stop yourself from working with your critical mind." - Tom Papa "There's a quiet joy I have knowing as you're baking over an hour and you're opening the oven and taking the lid off of the dutch oven and then just knowing when you hit that point where the house is now filled with that smell, there's a quiet, I know I'm doing good; I may not be giving you great advice, or maybe, I've been a little short, who knows? But at least I added this." - Tom Papa “There's a perspective that you get at a certain stage in life. Right now there's lots of change and there's lots of external forces and internal stuff. There's a lot going on, but I feel like I've played this game and have a calmness and a perspective that is really, really valuable.” - Tom Papa Resources Mentioned in This Episode: (Comedy Album by George Carlin) Let's (Comedy Album by Steve Martin) Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28138595

Sheltered Kids Who Grew Up To Be Funny: Trey + Katie Kennedy and Jake Triplett 09/20/2023

Sheltered Kids Who Grew Up To Be Funny: Trey + Katie Kennedy and Jake Triplett We’re back with more funny, and this week doesn’t disappoint. For those of you who grew up in the Bible Belt and maybe went to a conservative church (or even if you didn’t), perhaps you were a bit sheltered like our guests this week. Before racking up over 12 million combined followers on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and elsewhere, and hosting the hit podcast Correct Opinions, comedian Trey Kennedy came to fame on the short-form videosharing app Vine. His hilarious and pointed videos ranged from imitating a church youth pastor who is cornily trying to be cool and up on pop culture, to an overly sunny Dad who tries to drag his teenage son out of bed to go to church. Now, Trey has teamed up with his friend Jake Triplett, who he met at a Christian camp, and the two co host the podcast, along with Trey’s wife Katie (who keeps the pair on track and from going down too many rabbit holes). In this episode, the trio and Jen share the commonalities of their Baptist church upbringings, their naivete about dating customs (hearing Jake’s assessment of what he thought french kissing was will make you howl), and how Trey’s Bible wielding grandmother had a serious talk with him about rumours of him being gay (He’s not. Not that there’s anything wrong with that). They've managed to turn being 'sheltered' into comedy gold, and they’ve been taking their brand of comedy all around the country with their recent “Grow Up” tour and their clean comedy is resonating everywhere. Their funny spin on their past doesn't just give us a good laugh; it also makes anyone who had a similar childhood feel like part of a big, quirky family. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase ABLE | Visit and use code JEN to save at checkout Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/28072797

For the Love of Funny: Finding The Funny In Our Wins and Losses with R. Eric Thomas 09/13/2023

For the Love of Funny: Finding The Funny In Our Wins and Losses with R. Eric Thomas We’re back with more of our For the Love of Funny series, and this week we’re asking the question; is it possible to find humor not only in our lighter moments, but also in our vulnerable and difficult times? Our guest this week specializes in wit through the written word–and he has found that it is possible to find joy, while being heartfelt and hilarious at the same time. We’re welcoming R. Eric Thomas, back to the show! Whether he’s writing about politics, pop culture, or celebrity craziness–Eric has a refreshing and hilarious perspective–which really helps when regular reporting on politics and news might send us spiraling into the darkness. Eric is also a (Dickinson on AppleTV+, Better Things on FX), a , and a bestselling of several books, including and his newest work, a collection of hilarious essays called Eric brings that laugh we need when the world seems bonkers, and helps remind us that we can find something to laugh at in almost every situation–we just have to be open to it. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! - Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Be grateful that you got to this place because this is where you wanted to be. Don't spend so much time thinking, ‘What if it all goes away?’” - R. Eric Thomas “I think to myself, ‘If you were better, then you'd be busier and that would make you happier.’ I don't know that busier equals happier. I don't know if that's true.” - R. Eric Thomas “I remember the first time somebody came up to me in the street and said, ‘Hey, this is weird, but I follow your Facebook, a friend of mine told me to, and you're funny.’ And I'm like, ‘Who are you? What's happening? Where are the cameras?’” - R. Eric Thomas “I know from my own experience as a reader and as a writer, you can have a good time with something that is both funny and heartfelt.” - R. Eric Thomas “I posted an Instagram story that was essentially like, ‘I got rejected from this thing, but my Beyonce´ hat came. So there are pluses and minuses.’ People really responded. They were like, ‘Thank you for sharing not only your wins but your losses. It seems like you're always winning.’ I'm like, ‘baby, I am always losing, but I'm not going to share that.’” - R. Eric Thomas Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27999897

Yelled at By A Clown: How Nate Bargatze Found His Funny 09/06/2023

Redefining Community & Friendships When Faced With The Unexpected ft. Emma Nadler 08/30/2023

Redefining Community & Friendships When Faced With The Unexpected ft. Emma Nadler As we close in on the end of our Community and Friendships series, we’re reflecting on the great conversations we’ve had toward building relationships in our lives. And this week’s convo puts the cherry on top as we discuss our friends as “chosen family” and the shape that our friendship and communities take when we are in a place where we need extra support. Our guest this week, Emma Nadler, is a therapist, author and speaker who is doing valuable work in helping people build deeper relationships. Emma knows firsthand what it means to rely on her circle in ways she never thought she would, when her daughter was diagnosed with a DNA disorder, shifting the life she knew, and navigating the special care, multiple hospital stays, and more than full-time parenting her daughter needs. By leaning on her community and being brave enough to ask for help (when sometimes the tendency is to act like we’ve got it all under control). Emma’s goal is to show us how we can look beyond preconceived notions about what it means to be valued and to belong, and leads us toward building a world where thriving in community is possible for every single person. Emma and Jen touch on: What it looks like when our “family” looks different than expected in the context of friendships and our communities How to understand and learn to tolerate our emotions when it comes to interacting with friends and community and how to find meaning in everything—good and bad Practical steps on fostering really authentic connections, asking for help, and creating inclusive spaces The power of being direct when reaching out to connect with new people, or friends you’ve drifted from, to foster a deeper relationship There’s so much value in learning how to meaningfully connect with others and create communities and friendships that celebrate our joyful times and anchor us at difficult times. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “We're born into something and we get certain things from that family; we might get a lot of things. We might get a lot of love. Some people do, some people don't get what they need. I think we can take that and build on it in the relationships that we create in our lives.” - Emma Nadler “There are 53 million caregivers in the United States right now and we can really feel alone, even though we're not. Often our work [leaves us] tucked away. We're at home. We have so much that we're grappling with that isn't seen. And so it can really feel [lonely].” - Emma Nadler “What would it be like to be open with people about what we are looking for in our relationships, what we want, and really let that in? ” - Emma Nadler “To me, in relationships, the question I'm most interested in is, do we want the same things out of this relationship?” - Emma Nadler “We're full of possibilities. We just never know when we're gonna meet someone who will change our life.” - Emma Nadler Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! PLEASE NOTE: Listening to this podcast in no way creates a client/therapist relationship with Emma Nadler. This is educational in nature. No legal, counseling, or other professional services are being rendered and nothing is intended to provide such services or advice of any kind. If you are having a mental health emergency, please contact 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. You can also text or call 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (within the United States). /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27874572

The Hardest Part of Friendship; When It’s Time To Say Goodbye ft. Erin Falconer 08/23/2023

The Hardest Part of Friendship; When It’s Time To Say Goodbye ft. Erin Falconer We’re back with our “For the Love of Community and Friendship Series, and this week, we delve into an area of friendship that all of us may face, but inevitably dread. It’s that moment when you know a friendship has run its course, or perhaps has become toxic, or you’ve just drifted apart–and you don’t know how to go forward. When life changes, when we change, and a friendship no longer serves us, how do we gracefully (and honestly) communicate about it? Our guest this week, who is here to walk us through this touchy topic, is writer, former standup comedian and political consultant Erin Falconer. Erin's written a book called How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. Lest you think this is just a conversation on how to wipe your friend slate clean, stick around–you’ll hear Jen and Erin talk about how to create and maintain the healthiest friendships through all the seasons of our lives in order to avoid the painful friend breakup. They also discuss: Erin’s “Six Pillars of Friendship” that help us take stock of who is in our life and how we’re serving each other What to do when we see a friendship has run its course or needs to shift or change in some way How to keep the source of joy going in our adult friendships, and minimize the pain It’s tough to grapple with the complexities of friendship breakups, but it all starts with building healthy relationships from the start. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! - Get 10% and Free Shipping when Visit trustandwill.com/forthelove. See how Trust and Will can benefit you! - Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There's no collectively agreed upon language out there in the zeitgeist about how to navigate conflict in [friend] relationships. There’s no blueprint for what a good one looks like, what a bad one looks like, and how to get out of good bad ones and into good ones." - Erin Falconer “The default setting on any one relationship should be one of positivity. It's so easy to slip into negative thinking and negative conversations because they feel so good. They feel like you're seen and you're heard and done. But you have to be really careful to not lean too heavily into those things.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships take work. To show up, you need to commit to the other person and you have to find your rhythm of what that looks like. It doesn't mean you have to be getting dinner every week, but there has to be some kind of agreed-upon level of commitment in this.” - Erin Falconer “It is true that individuals themselves can be toxic people. That is such a small percentage of people. It is, in this case, the relationship that is toxic, and even if somebody else is behaving badly, you've allowed them to continue to show up in this way in your life. We teach people how to treat us and there's a certain degree of responsibility we need to own within these relationships because with responsibility comes freedom and power.” - Erin Falconer “Relationships are very much a mirror to you. The more you explore these types of relationships, the more you explore yourself. To that end, understanding who is in your world is really important to understanding who you are.” - Erin Falconer Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27815106

Shannan Martin on Friendship: “It Starts with Hello” 08/16/2023

Shannan Martin on Friendship: “It Starts with Hello” When was the last time you reached out to one of your neighbors? Not just the people you feel comfortable with, but the ones who live near that you might not know beyond a “How are you?” in passing. As we continue our Community and Friendship series, we’re taking a look at why it enriches our lives (and the lives of our neighbors) to invest in the people around us. It doesn’t have to mean they all become our best friends, but a little curiosity, a little paying attention, and a little effort to listen will go a long way in developing the kinds of relationships that make life sweeter. To help guide this conversation, we’re delighted to welcome author and speaker Shannan Martin back to the show! Through her writing, Shannan has revolutionized the way we think about relationships with her refreshing perspectives. She articulates the need for genuine, deep-seated friendships that stretch beyond conventional norms. She also unravels the complexities of forging meaningful connections in our modern world, and her last book “Start with Hello” beckons us toward extending hospitality in ways that might feel awkward at first, but will net us that sense of community and belonging we all long for. Shannan and Jen discuss: How Shannan, a self proclaimed introvert, faced her loneliness after she and her family moved from the country to the city by getting outside her comfort zone and making herself available to meet her neighbors What it means to be deeply embedded in a neighborhood where you are both a good neighbor, and your neighbors are good neighbors to you How making new friends, no matter how big or small, always starts with a simple “hello” and the small steps towards getting to know someone by making eye contact, paying attention and helping when we can Shannan and Jen agree that when we reach out beyond our fears, beyond our comfort level, and beyond our borders with radical hospitality, good things start to happen in our neighborhoods which then trickle out to our communities and begin to affect society as a whole. And, be sure to stay with us ‘til the very end–you won’t want to miss a little bonus chat among friends about whether ice cream is healthy for you or not, and what flavors Jen and Shannan swear by. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Every relationship that we have, whether it's the smallest acquaintance or our truest loves, began with a hello.” - Shannan Martin “There's this unfair idea that if somebody is unhoused, they're gonna be inherently a danger to us and it's just simply not true.” - Shannan Martin “What if we just decided to eat together? What if we decided that nobody is exempt from being in our home? Everybody's invited. That makes life really interesting.” - Shannan Martin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen!: /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27755412

What Is Your Friendship Attachment Style? Ft. Dr. Marisa Franco 08/09/2023

What Is Your Friendship Attachment Style? Ft. Dr. Marisa Franco Hey friends, we are back with another episode in our For the Love of Community & Friendships, and we happen to have a true friend of the show returning to lay down some expertise about what it means to make and keep friends. We’re delighted to have Dr. Marisa Franco, (who also partnered with Jen to create a MeCourse on Friendship) who delves into the fascinating world of friendship attachment styles. Dr. Franco shares her extensive knowledge and insights on how our attachment styles, often formed during our early years, can significantly influence the type of friendships we form as adults. She discusses the three main types of attachment styles—secure, avoidant, and anxious—and explains how understanding our own style can help us navigate our friendships more effectively. Jen and Marisa touch on: How the three main types of attachment styles can change over time as we typically become more secure as we mature How, when we’re younger, we tend to have more friends (and friends who are very similar to us) as we look to expand our identity, and when we become more solid in our identity, we’re more open to be friends with people who are different from us Why friendship doesn’t just typically “happen,”--it takes effort, and some ways you can put yourself out there to make new friends, and how to do the work to keep the friends you already have How to approach conflict in friendship where we kindly share our needs with a spirit of reconciliation over an attitude of defensiveness * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “If you don't understand your attachment style, you think that the world is just mean and cruel and people are gonna reject you or people are going to betray you. If you're more avoidant and you don't have any power, you don't have any agency because all the issues are out in the world.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “I think if we can understand our attachment styles, we have more agency, we have more control, we can shift our behaviors and we can find the relationships that we really want.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “People are a lot more likely to be friends with people that are similar to them. It's called homophily. The value of these similar relationships is they do make us feel very safe.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “We see in the research that people who see friendship as happening without effort are more likely to be lonely five years later. People that see it as requiring effort are less likely to be lonely five years later.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “What we see in the research is that when people try to reconnect with someone, that person is happier to receive that reconnection than we predict.” - Dr. Marisa Franco “In a healthy conflict, I think of; what does this conflict look like without blame? What if I go into here not trying to blame this person, not trying to even assume that they were trying to intentionally hurt me. So then, how do I navigate it with that being what's going on in my head?” - Dr. Marisa Franco Resources Mentioned in This Episode: a book by Dr. Marisa Franco Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27684600

The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith 08/02/2023

The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith Genuine heart friendships have an incredible impact on our lives, including our health. Many recent studies tout the connection between health and the quality of your relationships, and that loneliness (not to be confused with being alone) can have a negative effect on our health–possibly even bigger than smoking or drinking or poor eating. So is it possible that our friends can actually help save us? Our guest today thinks so; writer and poet extraordinaire Maggie Smith recently went through a divorce and she credits her close knit friend group for being “her parachute” in that process (much like Jen’s friends have been for her as well). Jen and Maggie discuss these topics around friendship: The way friends can invest in you in a way that family isn’t able to when you’re going through disruptive life moments The friends that intuitively know what you need during a rough patch and show up proactively with solutions so you don’t feel so lost How we can nurture those “life saving” friendships by being a good friend ourselves Thank God for the friends who remind us of who we are–of our core goodness and worth– when a disruptive time shakes up our identity. They help bring us back to ourselves. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I was in a ‘not seeing the forest for the trees' mode. I was painting an inch from the canvas. I had no idea what the shape of anything was and I was just panicked and trying to spackle everything back together as quickly as I could. And so having people who could remind me of my goodness, my core worth, which I think is so easy to forget in these moments." - Maggie Smith "When friends come in, they're not necessarily invested in the relationship. They're invested in your happiness. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't actually impact your friend a block away. If your marriage doesn't work the same way it impacts your family, who's thinking, 'Oh, what are we gonna do for Christmas now?'" - Maggie Smith “I think there's something that we do that hurts our adult friendships in particular, which is why we prioritize them sometimes way below our romantic relationships. It happens even when we're dating. We all knew or we were the girl who was 15 and as soon as she got a boyfriend stopped hanging out with her friends on the weekends because she was like, ‘I just wanna be with my boyfriend and if he's busy then I can come hang out.’” - Maggie Smith "Maybe someone hurt you five years ago now seems pretty small and not unmanageable or unforgivable. So what would it take to just reach out, call your friends, and have them help you craft a text to someone that you haven't talked to in a while, or leave a voicemail—if you're phone brave, I am not phone brave, so I would text or probably email. If you know where they live, send a little postcard that has some little private joke or something that reminds you of them." - Maggie Smith Resources Mentioned in This Episode: (A picture book releasing in winter 2024 by Maggie Smith) (FTL Episode featuring Maggie Smith) Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27616902

Finding Friends, Keeping Them and What To Do When You Break Up: Laura Tremaine 07/26/2023

Finding Friends, Keeping Them and What To Do When You Break Up: Laura Tremaine We’re in a brand new series; For the Love of Friends and Community. Friendship and community often serve as the cornerstone for many women's lives, providing a vital support system that nurtures connection, empathy, and mutual growth. In a recent survey from Psych Central, nearly half of most women report having fewer than 3 close friends, one third report having between 4-9 close friends, and 12% say they have no close friends at all. We know that friendship contributes to more satisfaction in life and is good for our overall health. So what’s the key to finding and keeping friends? How many friends do we need to get those good friend vibes? Our guest this week, author and podcaster Laura Tremaine, has written extensively about friendship, drawing from her own experiences and the experiences of other women she has talked to. Laura wants us to identify, create and nurture these deep connections that we long for. She also teaches us that friendship takes work, and vulnerably shares her friendship fails (yes, even a friendship expert has a few friend misses now and again). Jen and Laura discuss: The key qualities that make a friendship meaningful and enduring, and how those things are defined by what you value A rundown of the things we all may think are important about friendship and looking at the things that aren’t as important as we’ve been made to believe they are How to navigate friendship breakups and friendships ending, allowing grief over that loss, and leaving room for that vacant “chair” to be filled by someone new Finding the “fellow obsessive” friend - the one you can geek out about with things that you both love Creating meaningful friendships is not just about having a social circle. It's about experiencing true companionship and vulnerability and support. And it's these soul connections that can bring so much joy and fulfillment to our lives. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit for more info. FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “You can have all the data about why we connect or don't connect or how many people we can reasonably connect with. There's data and then there's actually real life.” - Laura Tremaine “It's great to have the friends who knew you when. It's also great to have friends who are like, ‘I had no idea you used to be that way and I'm glad we're meeting at this stage.’” - Laura Tremaine “My friendship with one of my best friends ended not by my choice, and it was as devastating as any romantic breakup I have ever been through.” - Laura Tremaine “Sharing your stuff, even when it's messy, brings you closer to who you are.” - Laura Tremaine “When you make a new friend and someone likes this newest version of you that you have fought so hard to be, how validating is that?” - Laura Tremaine “Friendship is a to-do and I have to put it on my to-do list like I put work tasks on my to-do list.” - Laura Tremaine Resources Mentioned in This Episode: (a book by Laura Tremaine) (A book club with Laura Tremaine) by Stephen King by Stephen King Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27558429

Demystifying Therapy with Lori Gottlieb 07/19/2023

Demystifying Therapy with Lori Gottlieb If you or anyone you know and love has ever had issues with their mental health, you know how painful it can be. As we conclude our “For the Love of Being Seen and Heard” series, we just want to remind you that there's no shame in admitting that you might need a little help. Maybe you’re feeling low, or more anxious than usual, or sad, scared, or just off—anything that feels different or keeps you from flourishing. Our guest today is here to encourage you to take agency over your mental health, and as a therapist herself, she’s here to help us shed those stigmas around seeking help from a therapist or counselor. Lori Gottleib is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author, and a leading voice in the mental health space. Her latest book (which was also a a selection for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club) Maybe You Should Talk To Somebody leads us into her own experiences with the transformative power of therapy and gives answers to those who might have hesitations about beginning this process. Lori and Jen talk about: Identifying the stereotypes about therapy and debunking them, plus what to expect so that you can a get the most out of your time with a therapist Developing an attitude that mental health is just as important as physical help and that seeking a therapist is on the same level as getting a check up with a medical doctor toward whole body health Jen’s personal experiences with therapy - and how she processed pain and betrayal, plus what it looks like to be in active recovery Becoming aware of and taking responsiblity for our own patterns, actions and responses to life events as it pertains to our mental state and interactions with others As Lori says, “one thing that therapy will teach you is how to be your real, messy, imperfect, fallible self, but also still love who you are.” * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Vist jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I think a lot of people are maybe afraid to open up to a therapist. They're maybe afraid to say, ‘this is the truth of who I am.’f That's why I really wanted to be open about what I was going through when I went to therapy, because I want people to know that this is a space where we've seen it all, not only as a therapist, but as a person in the world ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb “The more you can show the truth of who you are, the deeper your connections will be with the people in your life.” - Lori Gottlieb\ “The internet is the most effective short-term non-prescription painkiller out there because it's really something we use to distract ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb “The value of therapy is that you get wise compassion; we will hold up a mirror to you and we will help you to see what you haven't been willing or able to see about your role in the situation.” - Lori Gottlieb “People do not realize; therapy [can be] hilarious because we're hilarious. Like, what is the gap between what we say we want and what we're actually doing? What are the ways in which we self-sabotage all the time? And we kind of know it, but we don't really wanna be called on it. But in therapy we're called on it in the kindest possible way. And we might laugh with our therapist about it.” - Lori Gottlieb “A misconception about therapy is that you're gonna go to therapy and you're gonna talk about your childhood for years and you're never gonna leave. But it's very much about what is happening now and what we can do now. The past informs the present, but we want you to have pain relief as quickly as possible. So we wanna be really proactive about what we can do right now.” - Lori Gottlieb “Men and women, any gender, whoever you are, however you identify; everybody is entitled to being vulnerable. And entitled to having someone sit with them and be present with them in their vulnerability, and not judge them, and not look down on them, but to connect with them.” - Lori Gottlieb “One more hurdle that people need to get over is this fear of what [the therapist] is gonna think about them. But I think what's underneath that is, what am I gonna think of myself?” - Lori Gottlieb “The person that we talk to most in the course of our lives is ourselves and what we say to ourselves isn't always kind or true or useful.” - Lori Gottlieb Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27492270

[BONUS] Gates Foundation: Season Wrap-Up with Melinda French Gates 07/14/2023

Reimagining Our Relationships Toward Rebalancing The Domestic Workload with Eve Rodsky 07/12/2023

Reimagining Our Relationships Toward Rebalancing The Domestic Workload with Eve Rodsky We’re back with another installment of our Being Seen and Heard series, and we think this one is going to strike a nerve with many of you out there who are looking for a better, stronger, fairer, narrative when it comes to the balance of work in your home and toward raising children. Are you the one in your relationship who is handling the lion’s share of the care and feeding of your littles PLUS taking care of their pickups and dropoffs to school, daycare, sports, bathtimes, bedtimes, wiping noses, butts PLUS managing the domestic front of grocery shopping, cleaning, organizing, handling the social calendar, vacations, PLUS working a 40 hour a week job either inside or outside the home? We see you and are asking a question that maybe you ask every day; why are women still, in a day and age where we make up 55.9 percent of the workforce and where 40 percent are the main breadwinner in the home, still responsible for so much when it comes to child rearing and domestic workload? Our guest this week has created a national conversation about greater equality on the home front with a system she created through intense research that helps couples create balance, by understanding that women are doing what she calls almost all of the “invisible labor” in the home, with at least two thirds of them having a job outside the home as well. Eve Rodsky is a Harvard Law School grad with years of training in organizational management When she had her first child (and began to see her identity at her job being stripped away because of it) and then began the dance of balancing her job with all of her duties as a mother (for which she bore the lion’s share of the domestic and child rearing responsibilities, as so many women do) she started to wonder: what would it be like if couples could reimagine their relationships as to how it relates to rebalancing the work it takes to run a home? So began her “Fair Play” system, where she sets couples up for success in relationship and parenting by helping them change the way they think and talk about their home life. Jen and Eve discuss: The patriarchal history that has been around for centuries that informs why the imbalance of domestic workload still exists when so many other categories for women have been elevated How important it is to invite men into their full power into the home, removing barriers and stereotypes as to what men’s and women’s strengths are there Changing the notion that women’s time is somehow less important than men’s–and that the “invisible work” women do is toward guarding the time of men How the overwhelming pace of work, child rearing and home management eventually ends up making us sick and damaging our relationships, and what we can do about it BONUS: Eve puts Jen to the test with a question from her Fair Play card deck where we dive deep into Jen’s family values–a question that is illuminating to all of us in understanding each other in relationship. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit for more info. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Changing and inviting men into their full power in the home is the only way women are gonna be able to step out into their full power in the world.” - Eve Rodsky “We've convinced women that their time is sand. It's infinite. Whereas we guard men's time as if it's finite like diamonds.” - Eve Rodsky “We've become complicit in our own oppression. Because since birth we've been taught that our time is worthless. If you don't believe me, just watch what happens when women enter male professions; salaries automatically come down.” - Eve Rodsky “As one neuroscientist said to me, you're not a better multitasker. Nobody is good at multitasking. We’ve just convinced women that they're better at wiping asses and doing dishes to pave the way for men's free time, their tenure, and their promotions. We can no longer do that.” - Eve Rodsky “If you believe that you're supposed to hold all the cards, have a life, work full-time for pay, and be in a dual-ambition household. You're gonna get physically sick.” - Eve Rodsky “I surveyed a thousand people to ask about their most important practice. People say some religious activity or meditation or exercise. I was not surprised that with over a thousand people surveyed, not one said communication.” - Eve Rodsky Resources Mentioned in This Episode: - book recommendation ed - book recommendation - book recommendation Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27430821

Seeing and Loving Your Body (and Yourself) With No Shame: Jessamyn Stanley 07/05/2023

Seeing and Loving Your Body (and Yourself) With No Shame: Jessamyn Stanley We’re back with maybe the most foundational episode in our Being Seen and Heard series–and it’s all about how we see ourselves. Were you taught how to love yourself when you were growing up? Many of us never grew up hearing anything about embodiment, and maybe we’ve treated our bodies as “the enemy” for most of our years. Maybe you grew up in a time where you didn’t see people that looked like you, or had your body type represented in magazines, on TV or in movies. Perhaps you even had shame about your body (or still do), and you bought into diet culture and were constantly worried about your size and the number on the scale. It’s hard to see ourselves as beautiful when we’re looking outside ourselves for what that standard of beauty is. Our guest today is doing the good work of helping people see themselves differently, and it’s giving them freedom to love themselves for who they are today. Jessamyn Stanley has become a powerful voice for wellness and body acceptance (she also dubs herself the “Beyonce’ of yoga” - I mean who can’t get behind that?). After attending yoga classes with a friend, Jessamyn fell in love with it, but she noticed that she didn’t see anyone who looked like her or had a body like hers–and when she moved to a different city and wasn’t attending yoga classes anymore—she craved a community to share her practice–except she wanted all kinds of people and body types to be a part of it. She began sharing her yoga practice on Instagram back in 2012 and was amazed by the overwhelming response from many who had never done yoga before because they had felt just like Jessamyn had–that maybe it wasn’t for “people like them.” Her fledgling Insta-yoga classes grew into an organization called The Underbelly, a unique and inclusive digital wellness experience that now draws thousands of people into its safe and accepting space. Jen and Jessamyn touch on these topics: Jessamyn’s experience with being ashamed of her body as a middle schooler and also being bullied for being different, and how she looks at those years of bullying as a revelation that everyone is self conscious about their bodies–bullies included The realization we all have at the end of the day; all we have is ourselves–and if we can accept ourselves as we are right now–not who we thought we should be, or who we might be–we’ll enjoy the ability to be fully present and authentic in all of our encounters Debunking the long held notion that many people have about black women (and also that black women have been taught to believe)--that they are “stronger” and “superwomen,” and what it means to allow themselves moments of rest and self-care Key changes that could be made to empower everyone to have their own agency toward self care, by making it possible for anyone–no matter how much money you make, or where you live–to participate in wellness practices like yoga If we can face the truth about ourselves, and not turn away from the fullness of who we are–including the ugly and complex things, we can begin a journey to a shame-free life that will change the fabric of who we are and what we bring to the world. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Jen Hatmaker BookClub | Vist jenhatmakerbookclub.com and use code READ at checkout $5 off your purchase! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Middle school was a time when I was really heavily bullied. That experience for me, looking back, was one of the greatest experiences because what it was actually teaching me is: everyone is self-conscious about their body. There's no one who is not self-conscious. And the person who bullies is having the most traumatic experience.” - Jessamyn Stanley “If I am all I have, then I have to learn to accept myself where I am right now. Not where I could be in the future, or where I thought I should have been 10 years ago. Like, what does it mean to just be who I am today?” - Jessamyn Stanley “Why I continue to practice yoga is because it is an opportunity for me to look at myself and see beyond these barriers that I've created for myself, to see beyond the way that society has defined me, to actually just feel and be present in the moment.” Jessamyn Stanley “I kept sharing my yoga practice because I realized that it doesn't just help other fat people to see someone living their life unapologetically, but it can impact literally anyone to see another human being living honestly and authentically.” - Jessamyn Stanley “If I am all I have, then I have to learn to accept myself where I am right now. Not where I could be in the future, or where I thought I should have been 10 years ago. Like, what does it mean to just be who I am today?” - Jessamyn Stanley “It's been amazing, frankly– in this last decade especially–to see so many more people showing up to their yoga practices, to see specifically so many more black women. Specifically fat black women, fat, dark-skinned black women out here living their yoga practices, being authentic, finding whatever that is for them.” - Jessamyn Stanley “It's hard to talk about, as a black person, what it feels like to accept that I was bred to hate myself. And so to connect with other people who understand that experience fully to a place where when they're reading my book, they're literally like–it's not like this is a new idea–it's like I just see myself. That has meant the world to me.” - Jessamyn Stanley “There's this thing of like beating back the darkness and then I think that the darkness becomes so all consuming. The world that we're living in is scary. It's scary and it is dark. And I think in a lot of ways it's gonna get worse before it gets better. And for me though, there is this incredible power that comes from just letting the darkness be there and just letting it be all consuming. Because that is where the light really is. And that's how it shines so bright.” - Jessamyn Stanley Resources Mentioned in This Episode: - Body acceptance writer - Body acceptance writer - Fat fashion blogger - Yoga practitioner Guest’s Links: - book by Jessamyn Stanley - book by Jessamyn Stanley - Jessamyn’s dog on Instagram Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27357732

Inside the Fight for Better Gun Safety with MomsRising’s Gloria Pan 06/28/2023

Inside the Fight for Better Gun Safety with MomsRising’s Gloria Pan If you’ve listened long enough to our show and also follow Jen, you probably know that the conversations we invite come in many stripes—thoughtful, timely, fun, encouraging, helpful, educational and inclusive—plus, we’re not afraid to veer into some of the deeper stuff. Important stuff that is sometimes hard to wrap our heads around, but if we don’t, no change can occur. Whatever we think about gun rights, there are voices to consider who are doing hard work to create a future where kids can safely attend schools, where people won’t be shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, where mass shootings become a thing of the past. Wherever you stand on the spectrum of this issue, at the end of the day, many polls show that roughly 90% of us agree that we should have stricter gun laws. So we’re opening the For the Love Floor to someone who is seeing and hearing first hand from families affected by gun violence, who makes it her priority to educate the public, and puts the issue in front of legislators for increased gun safety. Gloria Pan is the VP of Moms Rising, a group of caring moms who take on the most critical issues facing women, mothers and families. She’s the head of their gun safety initiative and works with their membership to accelerate impact on Capitol Hill and state capitols to affect legislative change. She's also been a trusted voice who’s spread the message on CNN, with The Los Angeles Times, NPR, and all kinds of media platforms. Gloria and Jen have a discussion around: + The origins of the 2nd Amendment and how the narrative of guns rights proponents has been shaped over the last 50 years + Practical steps toward what we all can do if we want to make our voices heard about this issue and take action toward better gun safety + Hope toward a new generation of young people who are engaged in creating a better future and are paying attention in ways perhaps previous generations haven’t This work is not glamorous and can be full of disappointment, as moving mountains can often be. We’re grateful to people like Gloria who give us a glimpse from inside the fight, and bring us hope that change can really happen. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Gun violence deaths in this country hovered around 32,000 people a year. That was pretty consistent for many years. Now we're nearing 50,000 and we have so many guns. We have more guns than people in this country.” - Gloria Pan “We consider all moms and families who care about the future of their families and their communities and our country as our constituency. We very much believe that our job is to bring their voices and their concerns to the policy-making table” - Gloria Pan “Not too long ago, issues that are concerning for moms and families were never even talked about in Congress. Childcare, paid family and medical leave, and policies that enabled families to be able to care for our families were never even talked about. But because of the work of MomsRising, our partners out there, and moms and families speaking out, it is now front and center for many lawmakers.” - Gloria Pan "Join us. Help us build this momentum toward this future where the well-being of families is front and center for this country. Because what are we without our families?" - Gloria Pan Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27280425

The Black & White of Feminism with Rachel Cargle 06/21/2023

The Black & White of Feminism with Rachel Cargle It’s another week of our illuminating For the Love of Being Seen and Heard series. We’re talking to people that are doing the life-changing work of helping each other see and hear each other–to see and hear communities that we are not a part of, to see and hear voices that have been traditionally silenced or marginalized, or even to see and hear ourselves in honest and affirming ways. Our guest this week is a powerful advocate, but with a tender heart who works in so many spaces that matter: feminism, racial justice, the arts, activism, self care and healing. Rachel Cargle is a writer and entrepreneur who has created powerful online learning spaces. She’s a regular contributor to Cultured Magazine, The Cut and Atmos. She’s been featured in the New York Times and Forbes as well. Her work centers around an invitation to pursue healing and growth, as well as re-imagining how systems that no longer serve us can be dismantled or changed to embrace justice and liberation. Her belief is that every one of us has power–the power to unlearn, relearn and reimagine–taking ourselves out of stuck spaces and creating places for understanding for everyone. Her thoughts on feminism are so insightful as she looks at how a well intentioned movement for the progress of women leaves out key communities and how reimagining how to see and hear the needs of every woman toward better conditions for all women. This powerful discussion centers around: An explanation and brief history of the feminist movement and how communities of color often are left behind in this work How the culture, both inside and outside of black communities often stereotype black women as workers, as strong, as able to bear pain differently than their white counterparts; and Rachel’s work to help black women feel cared for–which leads to an amazing ripple effect on families, organizations and communities The Loveland Foundation, which gives black women access to black therapists, to self-care and to other resources that are so often not readily or affordably available Simple ways that women can get involved in the conversation to become clear about this intersection of feminism and race by hearing and telling truths, and to engage in knowledge, empathy, and action. Sometimes the truth can be hard to process, but when there is intentionality in how we exist in our efforts toward benefitting the condition of women, the result is liberation for all women. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit for more info. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I believe that when black women are poured into, it really offers a ripple effect to most other places in our communities and societies.” - Rachel Cargle "The systems are insistent on us not being curious. If we're not curious, they must stay the same. And if they stay the same the people who built them to win will continue winning." - Rachel Cargle "A lot of what I didn't yet know was what it meant to be a black woman in the feminist movement, in spaces full of white women who were having a very different experience than I was, and who were benefiting from the outcomes of our collective work--more than the black women who were doing equal amounts of the work--and sometimes even more of the work in these spaces." - Rachel Cargle "Empathy that doesn't just say, 'I'm so sorry this happened to you.'" It's empathy that says, 'how do I play into you not having your needs met?' And often there's an answer to that--it's because of my privileges and how those make me blind to what your needs are." - Rachel Cargle “There is a necessity for us to be critical and to ask questions, and to have this radical empathy that insists that there can be no way that anyone else will rise without all of us doing it at the same time.” - Rachel Cargle “Truth allows us to change something.” - Rachel Cargle “When you're vulnerable in America as a black woman, you could die. Your children could die. Your family could die. That's the truth. So there has to be this balance of the fight and the tending, the fight, and the nourishing because one or the other can either harden you or dissolve you.” - Rachel Cargle “Art's role is to remind us of humanity because if it wasn't there, we would get caught up in the robotics of systems. It’s there to remind us that we're humans as well.” - Rachel Cargle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27212577

From The Church to The Pride Parade: Sara Cunningham with Free Mom Hugs 06/14/2023

From The Church to The Pride Parade: Sara Cunningham with Free Mom Hugs We’re back for more of our Being Seen and Heard series! In a time where it feels like we are struggling to really see and hear one another, there are some bright lights who make it their mission to help one another understand each other a little better. Our guest today, Sara Cunningham, the founder of FreeMomHugs.org, is one amazing example of what can happen when we really see people for who they are and begin to hear their stories. Sara was on the show right at the beginning of her journey with Free Mom Hugs, and now the org—which started with the simple idea of attending Pride parades and holding up a sign that said “Free Mom Hugs,”—has become a national and world wide phenomenon. She uses her own experience as a guide to how she advocates, and is absolutely passionate about connecting with faith, civic, business, and government leaders in efforts to make the world a kinder safer place for our LGBTQIA+ family. Sara and Jen touch on these topics: Sara’s roots in conservative evangelicalism and how she found herself moving “from the church to the pride parade” after she reckoned with her son’s admission that he was gay and going to live in his identity The stories of people who, after coming out, lost their families, were kicked out of their churches, and felt completely alone and found solace and comfort in the simple act of a mom extending a hug Sara’s son Parker’s (as well as her own) journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically after seeing others, who had come out in faith environments, survive and thrive after loss How we can affect change with our voices as it relates to legislation that targets the LGBTQIA+ community * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit for more info. FOCL | Visit and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham “I think about [my son] Parker early on in his journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically. He had people in his life that had survived the loss, who had survived being outed, kicked out of their place of worship and losing their family. Just seeing them go beyond that and thriving and having a place of their own and working and contributing to society; he saw people that had faced what he feared and then came out on the other side of it.” - Sara Cunningham “Our mission statement is that we empower the world to celebrate the community through visibility, education, and conversation.” - Sara Cunningham, about FreeMomHugs.org Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27132285

Seeing and Hearing the Disabled Community: Dr. Amy Kenny 06/07/2023

Seeing and Hearing the Disabled Community: Dr. Amy Kenny We’re back with our series For The Love of Being Seen and Heard. There is so much right now floating around in culture about what happens to us when we don’t feel like we’re either being seen or heard. For most of us, the longing to be understood by others is a core need. And for some groups or communities, including the disabled community, the task of being seen, heard and understood is more challenging, and we’ll hear why as we talk with disabled scholar-practitioner Dr. Amy Kenny. Dr. Kenny has made it her life’s work to shed light on and help clear up misunderstandings around the abled community’s view of the disabled. Her latest book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request does a deep dive into one of those communities—places of faith—and the particular biases and unintentional ableism propagated there. Amy compassionately offers insight and solutions toward understanding in a new way. Jen and Dr. Kenny discuss: Common misunderstandings that abled people have toward disabled people plus words and actions they can learn from disabled people toward connectedness The “invisible qualities of God’s divine nature” and how we might be able to accept imperfections in nature, even considering them beautiful, but are unable to accept or find beauty in the imperfections of our bodies “Inspiration porn” a phrase that relates to the overall view of disabled folks being the poster children for overcoming—putting them in the position of feeling as if they are objects on a pedestal and that their sole purpose in life is to inspire the abled The challenges around access for disabled people and how to think differently about the right of access for all people There’s hope in this conversation, and Amy guides us to a place where we can unlearn some ableist tendencies and learn more about a community that has much to contribute to our world. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Chime | Visit to learn how you can benefit from using Chime BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month! MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit for more info. Thought-Provoking Quotes: “I'm not ashamed of my disability. It's an intrinsic part of the way that I navigate the world and the way that I am treated by the world and by various communities.” - Dr. Amy Kenny "I grew up in a household and in a church community that taught me that everyone was made in the image of God. And I had the audacity to believe it. Unfortunately, I wasn't treated as though I was made in the image of God a lot of times because I received potions and prayers and all kinds of shaming tactics to try to pray me away, essentially." - Dr. Amy Kenny "It's a beautiful interdependence that disabled folks bring and that we all can co-flourish when we have interdependence with one another." - Dr. Amy Kenny "We create this hierarchy of worth in humanity where we have societally constructed ideas of what's normal, who's intelligent, what's productive enough--who's contributing enough. All of those ideas uphold, ableism, racism, transphobia, colonialism, they're all interconnected." - Dr. Amy Kenny "My body is made of the same stuff as stars. Just watch me shine." - Dr. Amy Kenny “I have learned from the disability community that I have permission to show up as myself.” - Dr. Amy Kenny Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/27062877

The Power of Rest & Retreat in Difficult Times: Katherine May 05/31/2023

The Power of Rest & Retreat in Difficult Times: Katherine May We’re at the tail end of our For the Love of Calming the Chaos series–and if you’ve gotten a chance to hear the whole series, we hope you’ve been able to take away some actionable items toward further peace in your life. Our last episode in the series is the perfect capper toward extending that ability to calm the chaos during the disruptive times of our lives, but also during the heartbreakingly difficult times. Our guest this week brings us the very comforting message that simply bucking up or trying to cheerlead ourselves into positivity isn't going to cut it. She gives us permission to actively accept our sadness, and then some tools for how to process it and move it from chaos to a place of peace. Katherine May is an international best-selling author, including the books Enchantment Awakening Wonder in An Anxious Age and Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times. Katherine is going to walk us through not only her own story of a hard winter season she endured, and what she learned, but she’ll show us how we can be gentle with ourselves and believe that we deserve peace, no matter the circumstances. Jen and Katherine talk about: When those winter seasons come, just when you think you can’t or will never be happy again and the dark pit feels too overwhelming; that’s typically when the winter begins to cease and recovery begins Giving yourself grace to believe you haven’t done anything wrong if you’re still suffering a week, a month or even six months later - the process of unlearning your old ways of life and relearning new ones can be painful and lengthy Not all the lessons we learn come from happiness, they come from sorrow, and how to accept that Chaos doesn’t just emanate from choices that we've made or that we've onboarded too many things, but sometimes when tragedy or heartache has found its way to our doorstep. Allowing ourselves to rest and retreat at these times is a gift we can all give ourselves. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove Thought-Provoking Quotes: “One of the defining parts of [a season of winter] is that feeling of being trapped in a space with a window onto the outside world. And it seems like everybody else is carrying on and they're all fine. And you are uniquely not fine.” - Katherine May “There's something about how raw you are in that time [of suffering]. So there are moments of intense beauty that are an integral part of this, part of the suffering.”- Katherine May “People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, ‘do you know what? I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant that I couldn't be who I am now.’ You almost appreciate them because change is always necessary.” - Katherine May “You are not alone. You feel very alone, but you are actually part of a massive community of other people who are going through the same thing as you, but maybe for different reasons. And there's this incredible bond between all of you that might not be obvious, but you can trust this space and you can trust your sadness.” - Katherine May Resources Mentioned in This Episode: - book by Katherine May - book by Katherine May Guest’s Links: Connect with Jen!: /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/26981802

The Emotional (and Sometimes Chaotic) Life of Teenagers with Dr. Lisa Damour 05/24/2023

The Emotional (and Sometimes Chaotic) Life of Teenagers with Dr. Lisa Damour Calling all parents of adolescents, or those of you who are about to have adolescents in your midst–if you’ve been feeling like you’re not sure what is normal in the emotional landscape of teenagers, we’re here to help. Face it—teenagers are literally in the epicenter of chaos–and because they live in our homes, sometimes it bleeds into our lives too. These kids are in developmental flux and there’s so much on them with school work, keeping up grades, extracurricular activities, friends (not to mention friend drama), anxiety about college—it’s a lot. But we can find ways to stand by them in their emotions, without getting too overcome with our own–and help them manage all this chaos in a way that serves them, and serves the whole family. Our guest this week is the perfect breath of calm in the midst of teen emotional chaos–she’s lived it, she studies it and she practices in it. Dr. Lisa Damour is a New York Times bestselling author who has written a book on the subject called The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, in addition to being an expert on adolescent development and family mental health. She and Jen hit the high points of: The seven developmental tasks that teenagers face Why the emotional world of teenagers is very different than during any other time in their life, and how they navigate emotions and how they express them How to know when a teenager is having a mental health crisis or if it’s just a teenager being a teenager How to manage a meltdown in nine steps Dr. Lisa gives us actionable tools to help understand teenagers and gently guide them as they wade through the somewhat chaotic season of adolescence. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/forthelove Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts. Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There is so much change in an incredibly short period of time. There are so many demands on that teenager in terms of how they're gonna grow, what is gonna be different between when they were 11 to 18. I mean, those are not the same people” - Dr. Lisa Damour “Teenagers make choices that can have a very dramatic impact on what's available to them in young adulthood, in terms of their options” - Dr. Lisa Damour "I think so often when we think we're listening, we're not listening. We're waiting for [our teenager] to pause so that we can make a suggestion. That's not listening." - Dr. Lisa Damour "Once your kid is into adolescence and is more autonomous and wanting more independence, and they come in close and ask for support--savor it and set your watch by the fact that it is gonna end probably within the next 30 seconds and it's not gonna end in a nice way." - Dr. Lisa Damour Resources Mentioned in This Episode Guest’s Links Connect with Jen! /episode/index/show/forthelove/id/26916960

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