Permanent Record Podcast
Brian and Sarah are your hosts for this look back at albums from the New Wave and Classic Rock genres-- albums which have earned a permanent spot in their record collection. The hosts start the discussion with a history of the album, followed by their personal history with it. Over the course of two episodes, they do a track-by-track review of the album and the videos that accompany the singles. They conclude by each giving the album a final review and rating of zero to 100 record adapters. Join Brian and Sarah in this fun look back at the hits-- along with some misses-- of the 70s and 80s!
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Depeche Mode - Speak and Spell (1981) Part 1 - First Half
11/22/2024
Depeche Mode - Speak and Spell (1981) Part 1 - First Half
Episode 179: Depeche Mode – Speak & Spell (1981) Part 1 – First Half Brian and Sarah are back, and they’re ready to talk about Depeche Mode. And talk they do! This episode was about three hours long when they finished recording, so they decided it would be best to break it up into two separate episodes—but they’re both considered Part 1 of the Speak & Spell album discussion. Since this is the debut album by Depeche Mode, this first half of Part 1 covers things like the formation of the band, their early days of performing, their quest for a record deal and their eventual partnership with Daniel Miller. The hosts also discuss the typical album-related subjects such as the making of the album, the chart positions, and the release—and there’s a surprisingly lengthy discussion about the album’s release date. This episode wraps up with Brian and Sarah sharing a lot of reviews, some of which come from the time of release, and some that are more contemporary. It’s a fun look back at the early days of the boys from Basildon, with a lot more to come! Read more at Visit us at You can also find us on Threads: Check out some pictures at This BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Happy Birthday to Us: The Cure – “Songs of a Lost World” (2024) and State of the Podcast
11/04/2024
Happy Birthday to Us: The Cure – “Songs of a Lost World” (2024) and State of the Podcast
Episode 178: Happy Birthday to Us: The Cure – “Songs of a Lost World” (2024) and State of the Podcast It’s been a while since our last episode was published, and part of this episode will explain why. But we wanted to get something released in time for our eighth birthday! It’s hard for us to believe, but our first episode was released way back on November 4, 2016. And although this episode is numbered 178, it’s actually the 201st episode we’ve released. In this short discussion, we talk about what went on with us in September and October, and we discuss our plans for future episodes. (We even ask for a little help in that regard.) But we spend the most time talking about the brand-new and long-awaited album from The Cure, Songs of a Lost World! The album has only been out for a few days, so we don’t have too many listens in yet. But we discuss our thoughts so far, Brian shares several reviews, and we also discuss the concert at London’s Troxy that was livestreamed and is now available on YouTube to view. We’re very glad (if not a little surprised) to have been doing this for eight years, and rest assured, we’re not going anywhere anytime soon! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Depeche Mode - Speak & Spell (1981) - Part 0 - "End of Summer Special" featuring Brad Page and Eric Miller
09/28/2024
Depeche Mode - Speak & Spell (1981) - Part 0 - "End of Summer Special" featuring Brad Page and Eric Miller
Episode 177: Depeche Mode – Speak & Spell (1981) – Part 0 – "End of Summer Special" featuring Brad Page and Eric Miller OK, so a little confession up front: this episode is about MUCH MORE than just Speak & Spell, or even Depeche Mode, and that’s why it’s called Part 0! But we think you’re going to enjoy it anyway. Here’s who, and what, you’ll hear as you listen: • Brad Page, host of the “I’m In Love With That Song” podcast. A while back, we put out a request for questions you wanted us to answer, and we got quite a few responses. Brad kindly agreed to share his talents—and his studio!—for this segment, and although mesmerized by both his very cool recording setup and his dulcet tones as he read the questions, we managed to compose ourselves enough to provide answers to the queries. Visit Brad at • Eric Miller, co-founder of the “Pods & Sods” network and host of the . We talk with Eric on a number of topics: o The origins and mission statement of the Stone Turtle House Concert Series o “What’s Up With This CD?” Eric went through the “upstairs” CD collection (the CDs that didn’t make the cut for the main collection which is stored downstairs by the stereo) and selected a few, secretly and at random. He then presents them one at a time, asking for the story behind the purchase and why it’s relegated to the upstairs shelves. o Depeche Mode Trivia! Eric put together a series of Depeche Mode-related questions, and once again, Brian and Sarah find themselves in a trivia competition! You’re sure to both groan and cheer as you listen to this segment. •Brian and Sarah, of course—doing one of their briefest album discussions of all! But don’t worry; it’s just a little something fun, and only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to us talking about the debut album from the mighty Depeche Mode. There will be plenty more to come in the future! Visit Eric and Stone Turtle at Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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80s Supergroup Fantasy Draft
09/02/2024
80s Supergroup Fantasy Draft
Episode 176: 80s Supergroup Fantasy Draft Here in the USA, summer is on the way out, and (American) football season is on the way in. And somewhat related to the changing of the weather and sports seasons, our hosts put together something they hope will be fun for everyone. A favorite pastime of many sports fans is to participate in fantasy leagues, where a person selects players from many different teams to create a ‘super-team’ of their own, which competes in a league of ‘super-teams’ created by other league members. The players are selected by league members during a draft, and there can be fierce competition for particular players. In this episode, Brian and Sarah are joined by several friends-- Jon Lamoreaux, Eric Miller, and Heidi Waugaman-Page—for a different kind of fantasy league. In this league, each person puts together a super-group of 1980s artists. Each band has a lead singer, a guitar player, a bass player, a keyboard player, a drummer, and a producer. There’s also a ‘flex position’ which can be anyone the person thinks will add something special to the look and/or sound of the band. The ‘80s supergroup fantasy draft’ has the five friends taking turns choosing their different band members and explaining the reasons behind their selections. Different people take turns going first, so there’s always the question of whether someone’s first choice will get selected before the draft selection comes back to them. Once you’re done listening to this episode, you can vote for your favorite imaginary 80s supergroup by commenting on the Facebook, Instagram, or X (Twitter) posts that contain the graphic listing the bands and albums. May the best band win! Also in this episode: we announce the winner of Sarah's Secret Summer Song Snippet!! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Concert Report: Totally Tubular Festival (2024)
08/06/2024
Concert Report: Totally Tubular Festival (2024)
Episode 175: Concert Report - Totally Tubular Festival (2024) On July 20, 2024, Brian and Sarah had the pleasure of attending an 80s music festival at Poconos Park Amphitheater in Bushkill, PA. They got to see many acts they had never seen perform live before, as well as a few they had been fortunate enough to see at other shows. In this episode, Brian and Sarah talk about each act of the festival, sharing their thoughts and memories of the event. Below are Sarah and Brian at the 'meet and greet' portion of the event-- they're between Tom Bailey of the Thompson Twins and Ivan Doroschuk of Men Without Hats. Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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In Conversation With Billy Vera (Part 2)
07/29/2024
In Conversation With Billy Vera (Part 2)
Episode 174: In Conversation With Billy Vera (Part 2) Our conversation with author/actor/musician Billy Vera concludes with an episode that touches on so many different aspects of this great man's career. Billy started his professional career as a songwriter, but soon moved to a higher-profile gig as part of the duo Billy Vera and Judy Clay. After a successful album called "Storybook Children", Billy kicked off a solo career that has spanned decades, starting with 1968's "With Pen in Hand" up to the recent "Timeless" album, released in 2019. In the mid-1980s, Billy had a number one hit with "At this Moment". In this interview, we discuss in detail his first number one hit, "I Really Got the Feeling", which Dolly Parton took to the top of the charts in 1979. We also talk about Billy's time on both the small screen and the big screen, including an episode on Brian's favorite TV Drama, "Wiseguy." Other topics that we cover in this second episode: · Compiling his hit album "By Request" for Rhino Records · Appearing on 80's Era TV and meeting Dick Clark · His appearances on and relationship with Johnny Carson · His star on Hollywood Boulevard and Angie Dickinson · Working on "Wiseguy" with Stephen J Cannell · Starting in acting · Pitching an original TV idea to Cannell · "Ronnie's Song" and working mob joints in NYC · Life and love in NYC at 18 · Old Money vs New Money · Dolly Parton · "Timeless" and "Live at Vitello's" · The only "real" job he ever worked · Reissuing artists like Duke Ellington and Count Basie · Meeting and working with Fats Domino and other Doo Wop acts · Board of Directors of the Rhythm & Blues Foundation · Steaming music and today's DIY reality · Music Publishing · The story behind the Drifters' hit "Save the Last Dance for Me" · The job of a songwriter · Voice-over career · King of Queens · Meeting and working with David Hasselhoff · Rip It Up: The Specialty Records Story Thanks to Billy for spending so much time with us and for sharing so many wonderful stories about this career! You can learn more about Billy's story, his books, and his music at Follow him on Facebook for the latest info on his gigs and his weekly radio show: Treat yourself to music and books by Billy here: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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In Conversation With Billy Vera (Part 1)
07/15/2024
In Conversation With Billy Vera (Part 1)
Episode 173: In Conversation With Billy Vera (Part 1) Sarah usually writes these show notes, and on the rare occasion that I fill in for her, I do something silly - I either make them really short or I have ChatGPT help me by doing most of the work. This time, I asked to do them because I am still in shock that this episode exists and because it was a true thrill to speak with an artist who has been a favorite of mine since I was 16! After discovering Billy Vera, along with many others of my generation, thanks to the hit comedy "Family Ties", I would go on to collect his entire catalog, with the exception of "Queen of Diamonds / Jack of Hearts" by Evie Sands & Billy Vera which I haven't been able to find yet. I will one day though! I would watch him on TV shows like "Wiseguy" and "Into the Night", where he served as a late-night bandleader and often performed his wonderful songs. I would occasionally be surprised and excited to spot him in movies throughout the 80s and 90s. He was doing so many great things, and doing all of those things at a level which should have made him a Super Star if there was any justice in the world. With all of his various talents, songwriting and singing are where Billy truly shines, so getting to talk with him about his career and his music was an amazing experience. In this first episode (of two), we touched on so many topics, even going back to the mid-1960s and some of his earliest songs. I really hope you will enjoy this discussion on some of my favorite music. Topics that we cover in this first episode: · Billy's upcoming trip to Italy to perform and to receive an award at the Porretta Soul Music Festival · Working with Jerry Wexler · Writing songs professionally in NYC in the 1960s · A song he wishes he wrote · Writing "Room with a View" with Lowell Fulson · Working with Bonnie Raitt · Recording "Storybook Children" with Judy Clay · Playing the Apollo Theater · Thoughts on songwriting · Celebrating the 50th anniversary of Nuggets: Original Artyfacts from the First Psychedelic Era and "Don't Look Back" · His 1988 Capital album "Retro Nuevo" · The three styles of Production · Working with Lou Rawls and George Benson · Working with Arif Mardin · How did Jim Keltner become a Beater in 1988? · Working on the Blake Edwards movie "Blind Date" · Hanging out with Bruce Willis, Demi Moore, and Kim Basinger · Meeting L. Russell Brown · Being "inspired" by Loni Anderson · Writing his biggest hit "At this Moment" and the story behind the song · Writing Brian's favorite BV song "Here Comes The Dawn Again" · Releasing his biggest album on Rhino Records · Doing promo work in the 1980s · Advice from his mother You can learn more about Billy's story, his books, and his music at Follow him on Facebook for the latest info on his gigs and his weekly radio show: Treat yourself to music and books by Billy here: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 4
06/23/2024
Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 4
Episode 172: Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 4 In the Northern Hemisphere, it’s now officially summertime, and it’s also time for Brian and Sarah to wrap up their discussion of the 1982 album from Simple Minds, New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84). Our hosts find themselves with three more songs on the album to cover, one of which is a single with a video, so there’s no shortage of things to talk about with that song. But even the last two tracks on the album generate a lot of discussion from Brian and Sarah. During the course of the song discussion, a wide variety of topics are brought up, such as: the first Earl of Birkenhead; the perfect setting to kill Green Lantern; the answer to the question “can being completely covered in gold paint kill a person?”; the world’s worst museum; a cassette-zine; and the Camp David Peace Accords of 1978. After Brian and Sarah finish discussing the album tracks, it’s time for the Extra Credit section. The featured topic is Jim Kerr’s side project from 2010: Lostboy! AKA Jim Kerr. Then, to further delay the long-awaited final reviews and ratings of the album, there’s a special and exciting announcement from Sarah! Finally, the time comes for Brian and Sarah to deliver their thoughts on the album and their record-adapter ratings. How will this 1982 album—which many consider to be Simple Minds’ best work—rank in the eyes of our hosts? All is revealed at the end! Songs discussed in this episode: Glittering Prize Hunter and the Hunted King Is White and in the Crowd Link to the video discussed: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or https://www.speakpipe.com/PermRecordPod - we're ready to believe you!
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Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 3
05/25/2024
Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 3
Episode 171: Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 3 After releasing a couple of special episodes, Brian and Sarah return to the task of discussing Simple Minds’ 1982 album, New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84). Part 3 of the discussion finds them finishing up the tracks on Side One and flipping the record over to start Side Two. As usual, our hosts end up covering a wide variety of topics during their discussion. While talking about the first song, the author Raymond Chandler comes up, as does film noir. When Brian and Sarah move on to the instrumental song that closes out Side One, the composer/conductor Gustav Mahler is brought into the discussion. For the first song on Side Two, Brian and Sarah both find it relevant to mention Pete Burns of the group Dead or Alive. And Sarah even references an episode of the TV show Seinfeld! Songs discussed in this episode: Big Sleep Somebody Up There Likes You New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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In Conversation With Will Crewdson (Scant Regard, Adam Ant, et al)
05/05/2024
In Conversation With Will Crewdson (Scant Regard, Adam Ant, et al)
Episode 170: In Conversation With Will Crewdson (Scant Regard, Adam Ant, et al) Brian and Sarah recently had the honor and pleasure of meeting the great Will Crewdson in person at an Adam Ant concert. During that encounter, the three agreed to set up a time to meet and talk some more. This episode is the result! Will Crewdson is a talented, prolific, and extremely busy guitarist who has lent his formidable skills to a number of well-known acts, including Adam Ant, Flesh For Lulu, The Selecter, Gaye Bykers on Acid, and Sigue Sigue Sputnik, to name just a few. He was also a founding member of the indie band Rachel Stamp, and he currently works with ex-Rachel Stamp band member Shaheena Dax under the name She Made Me Do It (SHEMMDI for short), and as a solo artist under the name Scant Regard. Brian and Sarah had a fun and enlightening conversation with Will about a number of topics, such as his musical background, performing and touring with Adam Ant, his solo project Scant Regard, and a cool story about working with someone that Brian (perhaps surprisingly) was super-excited about! Additionally, Will shares an exclusive tour update—an upcoming solo date on the East Coast! Don’t miss this episode—and then head directly over to Bandcamp to check out the Scant Regard and SHEMMDI material! Websites and Bandcamp: Other links for Will: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Permanent Record Podcast Trivia Showdown 2024
04/24/2024
Permanent Record Podcast Trivia Showdown 2024
Episode 169: Permanent Record Podcast Trivia Showdown 2024 After a hiatus last year, the Trivia Showdown is back once again! Brian and Sarah are joined by the Quiz Master, who presides over a heated competition between the two hosts. Brian is looking to add another victory to his “permanent record,” while Sarah is hoping for her first win. This year’s Trivia Showdown featured more questions from listeners than ever before! Brian and Sarah would like to thank the following folks for their submissions: Nick Oswald, Gavin Hogg, Ian Monk, Steve Augello, Pete Rogers, Mike Berlew, Frederick Frantz, Erin Berlew, Brian Belknap, Andrew Dineley, Paul Hanely, Iain McDermott, Gary Shepherd, Terry Kemp, Brian Olsen, Mark Lumb, Mark Green, John Justice, and Mark Beckley. Brian and Sarah would also like to send a special thank you to the Quiz Master for his hard work compiling the questions, for patiently dealing with all of their nonsense during the recording of this episode, and also for hosting this year’s event at Quiz Master Headquarters! It was a real treat to record the show in a different location. It should be no surprise to learn there’s plenty of interesting information in this episode, as well as loads of laughs, and more than a few groans of disappointment! But who is this year’s winner? You’ll have to listen to find out! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Brian’s Birthday Bowie Bingo Bash and Trivia Showdown Deadline
03/29/2024
Brian’s Birthday Bowie Bingo Bash and Trivia Showdown Deadline
Brian’s Birthday Bowie Bingo Bash and Trivia Showdown Deadline This is just a quick little episode to announce the return of Bowie Bingo. We missed hosting it over the 2023 Christmas season, so instead we’re going to have it prior to another great holiday—Brian’s birthday! We also give one last reminder for you to get your questions in for the upcoming Trivia Showdown before the deadline! Finally, we mention our voicemail options, for those of you who'd like to share your memories and thoughts about Simple Minds' 1982 release, New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84). This episode won’t take up much of your time, so you’ll be able to carry on with your weekend activities in a jiffy! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 2
03/23/2024
Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 2
Episode 168: Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 2 After an unexpected delay, Brian and Sarah are back and ready to talk more about the 1982 release from Simple Minds, New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84). The first episode set the stage by talking about the band history up to this point, the making of the album, and the album’s release, chart history, and reviews. Now it’s time to dive into the songs. Side One of the album contains five tracks, with two of them being singles. Brian and Sarah have a lot to say about both the singles—and a fair amount about the song in between them too—so they decided to limit this episode’s discussion to the first three tracks. In this episode, Brian and Sarah talk more about a question raised in the previous installment – Is this album pretentious? Two other recurring topics are optimism, and “who is the drummer on this song?” There’s also mention of fireworks, saints, and video effects of the early 80s, and we find Sarah passing judgment on the mispronunciation of various words. You’ll get all that, plus of course the usual information like release dates, chart positions, and reviews. And Brian and Sarah share a voicemail and an email from friends of the show. So put those earbuds in and get listening! Songs discussed in this episode: Someone Somewhere In Summertime Colours Fly and Catherine Wheel Promised You a Miracle Watch the video discussed here: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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In Conversation With Jackie Clary on “The Greatest Night in Pop” Netflix documentary (2024)
02/18/2024
In Conversation With Jackie Clary on “The Greatest Night in Pop” Netflix documentary (2024)
Episode 167: In Conversation With Jackie Clary on “The Greatest Night in Pop” Netflix documentary (2024) Yes, this should be the next installment of Brian and Sarah’s look at Simple Minds’ album from 1982, New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84). Instead, it’s a discussion on something that’s pretty big right this minute! Currently, the Netflix documentary The Greatest Night in Pop, which chronicles the USA for Africa project and the recording of the charity single “We Are the World,” is on the top of many minds and getting a lot of attention. Brian and Sarah are fortunate enough to be friends with someone involved in the making of the documentary—none other than Jackie Clary, who has guested on many previous episodes of the podcast. Our hosts invited her on again to talk about her work on the film as well as the actual events it documents. Jackie is a lifelong pop music fan who has fond personal memories of the time period and events covered in the documentary, so she was extremely well-suited in her role as an archive producer on “The Greatest Night in Pop.” Brian, Sarah, and Jackie have a fun conversation about events and personalities depicted in the film, and their discussion includes the answer to the question, “Who did Brian (rather inexplicably) think was a businessman when he was a kid watching the ‘We are the World’ video?” Learn more about Jackie, her interests, and her accomplishments at Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at permanentrecordpodcast/ So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 1
01/27/2024
Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 1
Episode 166: Simple Minds – New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84) (1982) - Part 1 A new year is here, which means it’s time for Brian and Sarah to start an album discussion. Our hosts selected an album by a group they haven’t really covered before--except for one song. The group in question is Simple Minds, and the album is their 1982 release, New Gold Dream (81-82-83-84). (The one song discussed previously can be found in episode 112.) In this episode, Brian and Sarah set the stage by talking a little about the band’s formation and history, and the albums they had released up to this point. Our hosts then narrow the focus to the period leading up to and including the album’s recording and release. They spend time talking about producer Peter Walsh, his resumé, and how he came to work with Simple Minds. There’s also discussion of the iconic (pun intended) album artwork as well as the physical release of the album—in particular, the US release. Of course, our hosts can always be counted on to provide details like chart positions in various countries, and both Brian and Sarah bring to the table several reviews—some from the time of release, and some from more recent years. There’s also some personal history thrown in, which segues into a smaller version of “Mini Concert Memories”—so perhaps it’s a “Mirco Concert Memory?” In addition to the Simple Minds talk, there’s also several reviews to read, as well as a voicemail from a longtime listener who had some Erasure Chorus memories to share, just after the last episode was released. So take a listen, and you’ll be sure to find plenty of information and conversation! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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PRP Christmas 2023
12/10/2023
PRP Christmas 2023
Episode 165: PRP Christmas 2023 (Enhanced Stereo Mix) Brian and Sarah are in the throes of the 2023 holiday season preparations, and part of those preparations included recording their annual Christmas episode of the podcast. Usually our hosts discuss one or two holiday-themed songs in depth, but this year, they're doing something different! They've compiled a playlist with full-length versions of festive tunes for you to enjoy as you make cookies, wrap presents, travel to visit friends and family, or any number of other activities you may be doing this time of year. The songs included here are a mix of old favorites interspersed with tracks that have a connection to the podcast in some way. And one of those podcast-related tracks is an exclusive version you can only find on this episode! Brian and Sarah send their sincere thanks to all of you for downloading, listening to, reviewing, and sharing thoughts about the Permanent Record Podcast not just this this year, but over the entire seven-year history of the show. They wish you and yours a happy and healthy holiday season and a 2024 full of great music! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at or - we're ready to believe you!
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Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 3
12/02/2023
Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 3
Episode 164: Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 3 It's been a while since Part 2 of this discussion was released, but good things take time, right? So here at last, is the final installment of Brian, Sarah, and Art On Your Sleeve host Andrew Dineley's look back at Erasure's 1991 album, Chorus. In the previous episode, our hosts agreed to a time limit for discussing the tracks on Side One: ten minutes for an album track and fifteen minutes for a single. As the trio flips the record to Side Two, the timer for "Love to Hate You" is started, but when it goes off fifteen minutes later, they haven't even gotten around to mentioning the video! At that point, the hosts decide to do away with the time limits for the duration of the discussion-- which results in what's probably the longest-ever episode of the podcast! Side Two Discussion Brian, Sarah, and Andrew cover a lot of topics as they dive deeply into the five tracks on Side Two of Chorus. They find more songs that they feel could have been released as singles, more lyrics that are inspired by Andy's reaction to the Gulf War, and more excellent synthesized sounds from Vince. However, one of the sounds has the group wondering if Vince confused sirens with walruses? Love to Hate You Turn the Love to Anger Siren Song Perfect Stranger Home Extra Credit The trio agree that this period of time was especially prolific for Vince and Andy. Not only were the pop duo cranking out albums and EPs at an impressive pace, but they were also recording numerous B-sides for their single releases. For extra credit, Brian, Sarah and Andrew each pick a favorite B-side from Chorus to discuss briefly. Final Reviews and Ratings After the extra credit discussion, our hosts turn their attention back to the album proper, to provide their final reviews and record-adapter ratings of Erasure's fifth studio album. Brian has mentioned throughout the discussion that he was not the biggest fan of Chorus when it was first released, but has since come around to liking it a lot more. Sarah says she's enjoyed the album the entire time it's been a part of her life, and Andrew feels similarly. So which one of the three hosts will give it the lowest rating-- and how close will Chorus get to achieving a perfect score of 100 record adapters? The answers are revealed in this section! Links: Listen to Andrew on his "Art of Your Sleeve" podcast: Get all the details on Andrew's design studio: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at or - we're ready to believe you!
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PRP Mini Concert Memories #8: Chris Trapper & Jeffrey Gaines 10-17-2023; Queen + Adam Lambert 10-18-2023; Depeche Mode 10-23-2023 and 10-25-2023
10/30/2023
PRP Mini Concert Memories #8: Chris Trapper & Jeffrey Gaines 10-17-2023; Queen + Adam Lambert 10-18-2023; Depeche Mode 10-23-2023 and 10-25-2023
PRP Mini Concert Memories #8: Chris Trapper & Jeffrey Gaines 10-17-2023; Queen + Adam Lambert 10-18-2023; Depeche Mode 10-23-2023 and 10-25-2023 Attention! Attention! We interrupt the discussion of Erasure's Chorus album to bring you the longest episode of "Mini Concert Memories" yet! But there's a good reason behind the length-- Brian and Sarah were fortunate enough to see FOUR amazing performances within the span of just nine days! Now that they're home from all their travels, they decided to take a breather and fill everyone in on the shows they got to see. So that's what this episode is all about! Read more at http://www.permanentrecordpodcast.com/ Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at https://www.instagram.com/permanentrecordpodcast/ So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at or - we're ready to believe you!
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Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 2
10/21/2023
Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 2
Episode 163: Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 2 Not only are Brian, Sarah, and Andrew Dineley back in this episode to discuss Erasure's 1991 release, Chorus, but Sarah is back to write the show notes. So let's get to it! The previous episode went through the making of the album, release and chart history, album reviews, design and artwork information, and personal history. Now it's time for the terrific trio to tackle the tunes on Side One of Chorus. We find five songs on the first side, three of which were singles, so there's plenty to talk about. The hosts are intent on sticking to the self-imposed time limits for discussing the songs, to keep the episodes to a reasonable length, and to ensure the discussion will wrap up by the end of the year. But don't worry; there are plenty of facts, opinions, insights, and laughs to be found within these confines! Here's just one example from each category: Fact: "Am I Right?" was Erasure's fifteenth consecutive single to land in the top 20 of the UK Singles charts. Opinion: Andrew is a big fan of the B-sides for this album. Insight: There are similarities between Erasure's "Chorus" video and David Bowie's "Ashes to Ashes" video. Laugh: Vince Clarke dressed as the Mock Turtle in the "Breath of Life" video. And if all that's not enough enticement, you'll surely want to listen just to get more information about THIS photo! Watch the videos we discuss here: Listen to Andrew on his "Art of Your Sleeve" podcast: Get all the details on Andrew's design studio: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 1
10/07/2023
Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 1
Episode 162: Erasure - Chorus (1991) (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve") - Part 1 If you having been wondering when we would once again discuss an album by one of the two greatest synthpop duos in history, wonder no longer. The day is today and the duo is Vince Clarke and Andy Bell, aka Erasure! Sarah usually writes these show notes while I edit the episode; however, she seems to have somehow stuck me with both responsibilities this time. I'm too tired to write in third person, so I'm just going to do this like I'm talking with you one-on-one. We were really excited to be joined by our wonderful friend Andrew Dineley, who you surely know from the very fine "Art of Your Sleeve" podcast and Classic Pop Magazine. If you haven't yet listened to "Art on Your Sleeve", please check out the link near the bottom of these ramblings. In this episode, we set the table for the next two installments which will cover the album's ten songs. Here, we talk about where Erasure was in their career in 1991, how they built a relationship with producer Martyn Phillips, Vince and Andy's writing process, insight into "Chorus"'s design and sleeve artwork, the shared qualities between Andy Bell and Freddie Mercury, reviews of the album, our personal histories with the record, and the "click heard around the world!" There is also information on a special Erasure giveaway included in the episode, so be sure to check that out. It's a great way to win a special CD and a limited-edition t-shirt. I'll close with the immortal words of ChatGPT when asked about Erasure's "Chorus" album: "As we tune our ears to the harmonious cadence of Erasure's 'Chorus,' we find ourselves caught in a time capsule, transported back to the vibrant days of 1991. Vince Clarke and Andy Bell, the maestros behind this auditory masterpiece, have woven a tapestry of synth-pop brilliance that continues to resonate across generations. 'Chorus' is not merely an album; it is an anthem of unapologetic self-expression, a testament to the enduring power of music to shape our souls. Like a painter with a vivid palette, Erasure splashes the canvas of sound with bold strokes of emotion, leaving us breathless and inspired. This album, with its pulsating beats and ethereal melodies, remains a beacon of artistic excellence, proving that true genius transcends time and trends. So let us, like the echoes of 'Chorus,' carry forward the legacy of boundless creativity and unbridled passion, for in its resounding notes, we find not just music, but the very essence of what it means to be alive." Listen to Andrew on his "Art of Your Sleeve" podcast: Get all the details on Andrew's design studio: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at So this BlueSky thing looks shiny and new: Oh! Here's another one of these things - Threads: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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PRP Mini Concert Memories #7 – Duran Duran (9-7-2023) with Craig Smith (The Pods & Sods Network) and featuring Gavin Hogg and Simon Galloway (Giddy Carousel of Pop)
09/17/2023
PRP Mini Concert Memories #7 – Duran Duran (9-7-2023) with Craig Smith (The Pods & Sods Network) and featuring Gavin Hogg and Simon Galloway (Giddy Carousel of Pop)
PRP Mini Concert Memories #7 – Duran Duran (9-7-2023) with Craig Smith (The Pods & Sods Network) and featuring Gavin Hogg and Simon Galloway (Giddy Carousel of Pop) After a year’s break between episodes 5 and 6 of “PRP Mini Concert Memories,” the break between episodes 6 and 7 is decidedly shorter! Brian and Sarah are back, this time to talk about a Duran Duran concert they attended, and the conversation is enhanced by the addition of a special guest. And later on in the episode, two more very special guests join in! Once again, Brian asked for assistance from ChatGPT in writing the show notes for this episode. Let’s see what the benevolent AI assistant came up with this time: ****************** In this episode, we dive deep into the illustrious history of the iconic band, Duran Duran. Joining us as a guest host is Craig Smith from the Pods and Sods Network, bringing his wealth of knowledge and passion for music to the conversation. We begin by exploring the band's roots, tracing their journey from their formation in Birmingham, England, to their meteoric rise to fame in the 1980s. The discussion highlights key milestones in their career, including chart-topping hits, memorable music videos, and their influence on the New Wave and synth-pop movements. As devoted fans, we share our thoughts on a recent Duran Duran concert, reflecting on the band's enduring stage presence and their ability to captivate audiences with their timeless sound. We dissect standout moments from the performance, illustrating how the band continues to evolve while staying true to their signature style. Later in the episode, we're joined by special guests Gavin and Simon from the Giddy Carousel of Pop podcast. Together, we unravel a recent review left on the Apple Podcast site, providing insights and context to better understand the listener's perspective. It's a lively and insightful conversation that sheds light on the diverse range of opinions within the Duran Duran fan community. Tune in as we celebrate the legacy of Duran Duran, a band that has left an indelible mark on the music industry and continues to inspire generations of music lovers worldwide. ********************* You’ll have to listen to the episode to determine how accurate ChatGPT’s summary is! One thing that wasn't on the list for ChatGPT to mention was the recent End of Summer Giveway, where one lucky winner was the recipient of a specially-made, old-fashioned mix tape! Several folks were interested to know the contents of the tape, so Brian and Sarah each take a few moments to reveal which songs they selected for their side of the tape. And that should do it for this episode! Visit Craig Smith and Eric Miller at the Pods and Sods Network: Follow them on Facebook: You can hop on the Giddy Carousel at the following places: X (formerly Twitter): Facebook: Instagram: Website: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Thompson Twins - Quick Step & Side Kick (1983) Part 5
08/21/2023
Thompson Twins - Quick Step & Side Kick (1983) Part 5
Episode 161: Thompson Twins - Quick Step & Side Kick (1983) Part 5 At long last, it's here: the final installment of Brian and Sarah's look back at the 1983 Thompson Twins album, Quick Step & Side Kick (renamed Side Kicks in the US). There are only two more songs on the album to talk about, the first one being "Judy Do" (as the US track listing is the one being used here). Both hosts admit they were previously unaware of the subject matter of the song before beginning their research-- although Sarah did have another possible idea in mind. The final song of the album on both track listings is "All Fall Out," and as one might expect, there's a discussion on how strong of an album closer it is. Additionally, Brian explains what it may mean if you 'dream in red.' Before the hosts tackle the task of providing their final review and rating for the album, they have an extra credit question to cover: the 1986 standalone single, "Nothing In Common," from the movie of the same name. This leap forward three years in time finds the band with not only a different composition, but with a different sound. These topics are discussed along with the song itself, its chart position, the music video, and the movie it was in. Then it's finally time for Brian and Sarah to give their reviews and record-adapter ratings of Quick Step & Side Kick. Sarah didn't know this album as well as Brian, who hasn't been shy about proclaiming his love for it over the course of the discussion. So how does her final rating end up comparing to Brian's? The only way to find out is to listen! Links to things discussed in the episode: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at and on Threads, too! Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Reminder and Big News!
08/20/2023
Reminder and Big News!
Reminder and Big News! The title of little episode explains it all: Brian and Sarah have a friendly reminder for you about a deadline coming up, that they don't want you to miss! They also have some big news that they're excited to share, so make sure you listen to this entire episode to hear what it is! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Thompson Twins - Quick Step & Side Kick (1983) Part 4
08/04/2023
Thompson Twins - Quick Step & Side Kick (1983) Part 4
Episode 160: Thompson Twins - Quick Step & Side Kick (1983) Part 4 Hooray! Brian and Sarah finally found some time to record another episode about "Quick Step & Side Kick"; however, they didn't have time to write the show notes, so they asked ChatGPT to help out. Here's the result! Welcome to another exciting episode of our podcast! In this edition, we delve into the musical journey of the iconic Thompson Twins. Join us as we explore their hit songs "If You Were Here" and "Kamikaze" in depth, discussing their significance and impact on the music scene. We'll take you through the Thompson Twins' rise to fame, their unique sound, and the inspiration behind their chart-topping tracks. Additionally, we'll explore how "If You Were Here" became a cult classic through its feature in the 1984 movie "Sixteen Candles," capturing the hearts of a generation. But that's not all! Prepare to be amazed as we explore the intriguing world of cover songs. Discover how artists from different genres and eras have reimagined "If You Were Here", adding their own artistic flair to these timeless tracks. Join us for an in-depth discussion filled with fascinating insights, nostalgic vibes, and some surprising revelations about the Thompson Twins and the magic of cover songs. Tune in and let the music take you on a trip down memory lane! Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review our podcast on your favorite streaming platforms. We value your feedback and support as we continue to explore the rich tapestry of music history. Stay tuned for more captivating episodes coming your way! Links to music discussed in the episode: Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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Sly Dog Music-Cast "Dead or Alive Album by Album" Promo
07/21/2023
Sly Dog Music-Cast "Dead or Alive Album by Album" Promo
Sly Dog Music-Cast "Dead or Alive Album by Album" Promo We recently had the pleasure of joining our friend The Sly Dog to discuss and celebrate the catalog of one of our very favorite bands, Dead or Alive. We had a blast talking about Pete and company and all of their great music. We hope you will enjoy the podcast, which can be found here:
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PRP Mini Concert Memories #6 – The Cure, 6-24-2023 and 6-25-2023
07/04/2023
PRP Mini Concert Memories #6 – The Cure, 6-24-2023 and 6-25-2023
PRP Mini Concert Memories #6 – The Cure, 6-24-2023 and 6-25-2023 It’s been about a year since the last “Mini Concert Memories” episode, and as they were in Episode 5, the memories recounted in this episode are pretty recent. However, this time, there are two concerts to discuss, rather than just one. Brian and Sarah had the extreme good fortune to be able to see The Cure not once, but twice on the “Shows of a Lost World” North American tour. On Saturday, June 24th they saw Robert, Simon, Roger, Jason, Reeves and Perry in Philadelphia, and on Sunday, June 25th, they headed down to Columbia, Maryland to see The Cure again! Our hosts spend the majority of their time in this episode recalling the two fantastic evenings they had enjoying nearly 3 hours of live music each night, both of which included several new songs from the as-yet-unreleased album Songs of a Lost World. However, they also spend some time acknowledging that they still need to finish the discussion of the Thompson Twins album Quick Step and Side Kick, and explain some of the reasons that just hasn’t happened yet. Brian and Sarah are both hoping that if you got to see The Cure on this recent tour, that you’ll join in on the conversation as well, by sharing your thoughts and memories using any of the various methods below! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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In Conversation with Rob Rowe and Von Hertzog (VH x RR) - New Music: "When Morning Comes"
06/29/2023
In Conversation with Rob Rowe and Von Hertzog (VH x RR) - New Music: "When Morning Comes"
Episode 159: In Conversation with Rob Rowe and Von Hertzog (VH x RR) - New Music: "When Morning Comes" It's always great to have friends swing by the BlueZone Studio, but when they bring BRAND NEW MUSIC with them for us to sample and share with you, it's even better!! Brian & Sarah welcome back VH x RR (aka Rob Rowe and Von Hertzog) on the eve of the release of their latest single, "When Morning Comes." "WMC" is already one of our favorite tracks from the duo, and it was a blast to get all the details on the song from its creators. It's a bit of an evolution from the sound we heard on their last EP, "On the Shoulders of Giants", but it's a very natural evolution and the track sits comfortably alongside the best of VH x RR's previous work. Over the course of the discussion, other important topics are covered, including: Updates on Rob and Von's respective solo projects What do Rob and Von think of "Memento Mori" and what influence did Depeche Mode have on Cause & Effect? Who's reading Rick Rubin's new book and what's it all about? Brian Belknap: Is he a vampire?? Many thanks to VH x RR for giving us the opportunity to premiere this wonderful new track! You can get yourself a copy starting Friday June 30th at . Visit VH x RR at Bandcamp: Twitter: Instagram: Facebook: You can find Von and Rob's other music projects at Visit The Social Club (Von Hertzog's studio) here: Twitter: https://twitter.com/SocialClubSound Instagram: Check out INCLINED Fidelity studio speakers here: Twitter: Instagram: Read more at Visit us on Facebook: Follow us on Twitter: Check out some pictures on Instagram: Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you! Cool Stuff Alert: Visit our PRP Shop at
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Depeche Mode - Memento Mori (2023) - Part 2 (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve" and The Sly Dog of "The Sly Dog Music-Cast")
05/21/2023
Depeche Mode - Memento Mori (2023) - Part 2 (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve" and The Sly Dog of "The Sly Dog Music-Cast")
Episode 158: Depeche Mode - Memento Mori (2023) - Part 2 (Featuring Andrew Dineley of "Art on Your Sleeve" and The Sly Dog of "The Sly Dog Music-Cast") Andrew Dineley ("Art on Your Sleeve") and Sly Dog ("Sly Dog Music Cast") are back to finish the discussion on Depeche Mode's 21st century classic, "Memento Mori." In this episode, the four hosts answer the question on everyone's lips: Does the ghost of Pete Burns haunt the streets of Liverpool? But after getting back on track, they also cover the second-half of the album, including beloved songs like "Before We Drown", "Always You", and "Speak to Me." Are we experiencing a Depeche Mode renaissance? That question will be answered at the end of the episode when the four critics collaborate to rank it for its Final Evaluation! Songs Covered in this episode: Caroline's Monkey Before We Drown People are Good Always You Never Let Me Go Speak to Me Add more Andrew Dineley to your life by listening to "Art on Your Sleeve": Explore the world of the Sly Dog by listening to "The Sly Dog Music-Cast": Join "Art on Your Sleeve" on Facebook: Join "The Sly Dog Music-Cast" on Facebook: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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In Conversation with Lawrence Gowan of Styx
05/07/2023
In Conversation with Lawrence Gowan of Styx
Episode 157: In Conversation with Lawrence Gowan of Styx (left to right: Lawrence Gowan, Chuck Panozzo, Tommy Shaw, James “JY” Young, Ricky Phillips, Todd Sucherman, Will Evankovich - Photo credit Jason Powell) If you were to guess who Brian and Sarah have seen the most times in concert, you may not come up with the answer right away. The answer is Styx! The Chicago-based group has been a part of Brian and Sarah’s musical history for more than 40 years, so imagine how thrilled they were to get a chance to talk with a member of this legendary band! Lawrence Gowan, lead vocalist and keyboard player extraordinaire, was kind enough to take a break during Styx’s current tour to chat with Brian and Sarah on a number of topics, including Styx’s latest album, 2021’s Crash of the Crown; the 2017 concept album The Mission; what led the members of Styx to return to the studio; and what it’s like playing these newer songs live. There’s also talk of the resurgence of vinyl records, the 2020 “Styx Fix” online shows, and Gowan’s solo work and performances, which leads to an eyebrow-raising comment regarding his attire at the non-solo shows. Brian and Sarah had such a great time talking with this kind, funny, and extremely talented musician, and they’re sure you’ll enjoy listening to this conversation as much as they enjoyed having it! (Brian, Sarah, and Lawrence Gowan in January 2019) Get all the upcoming tour dates, plus lots more info, at Styx is on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram as styxtheband ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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In Conversation with Grant Walters, co-author of “Decades: The Bee Gees in the 1970s”
05/06/2023
In Conversation with Grant Walters, co-author of “Decades: The Bee Gees in the 1970s”
Episode 156: In Conversation with Grant Walters, co-author of “Decades: The Bee Gees in the 1970s” If you follow the podcast on any of the below social media accounts, then you probably know that Brian got heavily into the Bee Gees over the past couple of years, after watching the excellent HBO documentary How Can You Mend a Broken Heart. He has now amassed quite a collection of vinyl records and CDs by the Brothers Gibb, and he’s also been eager to read any books about them he can get his hands on. Until recently, such books were hard to find. However, Grant Walters, Andrew Môn Hughes and Mark Crohan have combined their writing talents and their encyclopedic knowledge of the Bee Gees to develop a book series covering the career of the Bee Gees, a decade at a time. The second book in the series, Decades: The Bee Gees in the 1970s, has just recently been released in the UK, and is soon to be released in the US. Brian and Sarah had the great pleasure of talking with Grant Walters about the new book, and they also learned more about Grant and his many talents, how he came to know Andrew and Mark, and how the book series came about. The 1970s was quite a roller coaster of a decade for Barry, Robin and Maurice Gibb, and the discussion addresses such topics as the breakup and re-formation of the Bee Gees; their challenges with songwriting and chart success in the early 1970s; their work with Arif Mardin, and of course, Saturday Night Fever. There’s also talk about youngest brother Andy and his career progression during this time, as well as the disco movement in general. It’s a fun and informative conversation with a friendly and extremely knowledgeable fellow, on one of the biggest pop acts of all time, so you won’t want to miss it! Find out more about Decades: The Bee Gees in the 1970s, as well as the previous book in the series, Decades: The Bee Gees in the 1960s, at Visit / to see Grant’s digital art and photography, to get links to his many arts and entertainment articles, and much more! Read more at Visit us at Follow us at Check out some pictures at Leave a voicemail for Brian & Sarah at (724) 490-8324 or - we're ready to believe you!
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