S6, Ep. 14: The blockbuster SCOTUS case over religious charter schools
Release Date: 05/15/2025
S6, Ep. 18: End of term roundup
Respecting Religion
On our season 6 finale, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman explore some of the consequential decisions from the final days of the Supreme Court term, including Mahmoud v. Taylor – which involves parents who want to opt their children out of curriculum they find in conflict with their religious beliefs – and U.S. v. Skrmetti, which focuses on access to medical care for transgender youth. They discuss the real world implications of these and other recent rulings. Amanda and Holly also celebrate a decision from the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals striking down Louisiana’s law...
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S6, Ep. 17: Christian nationalism and the Texas public sphere
Respecting Religion
What’s the difference between religious privilege and religious freedom? How does Christian nationalism spread? Why do so many ideas that start in Texas expand to other parts of the country? On this podcast, we bring you a special panel discussion on Christian nationalism in the Texas public sphere, recorded live on April 8. It features BJC Executive Director (and Respecting Religion co-host) Amanda Tyler, scholar David Brockman, professor Mark Chancey, and journalist Robert Downen. Moderated by Jack Jenkins, it was part of an all-day event focused on telling the story of religion in Texas...
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S6, Ep. 16: What’s going on with the Supreme Court, a new travel ban, and the military in L.A.?
Respecting Religion
With decisions from the Supreme Court, a new travel ban, and a federally militarized presence in Los Angeles, there are many activities in our world that deserve attention. Amanda and Holly discuss several current events in this episode, including the revival of one of the ugliest policies of the first Trump administration. Plus, they review the unanimous decision in a Supreme Court case about religious exemptions to employment law and discuss the Court’s decision not to hear a case involving the protection of sacred land. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Recent and...
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S6, Ep. 15: Religious objections and curriculum opt-outs: Oral arguments in Mahmoud v. Taylor
Respecting Religion
A case with a thin record is raising plenty of questions at the Supreme Court. In this episode, Amanda and Holly examine the case of Mahmoud v. Taylor, which involves parents who want to opt their children out of public school curriculum they say conflicts with their religious beliefs. But, what’s the difference between expected exposure and unconstitutional coercion? Does age matter? What happens when opt-out options become too burdensome and overwhelming to accommodate? Amanda and Holly examine the issues in this case as well as the challenges for the school district and for the...
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Special LIVE Episode: Vouchers in the budget bill, SCOTUS stops religious charter schools, and new decision on the Dept. of Education
Respecting Religion
In a conversation broadcast live on May 27, Amanda and Holly provide updates on a day of big news in the religious liberty world. They first look at the surprising 4-4 deadlock from the U.S. Supreme Court in the Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond case, which preserves a religious liberty principle by stopping the creation of the nation’s first religious charter school. They also discuss the troubling school voucher proposal that was slipped into the budget reconciliation bill that the U.S. House of Representatives narrowly passed on May 22, offering tips on...
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S6, Ep. 14: The blockbuster SCOTUS case over religious charter schools
Respecting Religion
The most consequential church-state case of this Supreme Court term involves whether the government could – or even must – fund religious charter schools. Amanda and Holly examine key moments in the oral arguments from Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond, playing clips from the courtroom and looking at how the justices may apply recent precedent to shape future law. As BJC noted in the brief we filed, if the government funds religious charter schools, it will drag our government deeper into questions it is unfit to answer on matters of doctrine and church...
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S6, Ep. 13: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good
Respecting Religion
Melissa Rogers joins the podcast for a conversation about how each of us can take steps to promote religious freedom and the common good in the United States today. After leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations, she shares her inside perspective on government, where we are right now, and how people can truly make an impact. Our religious freedom protects everyone’s right to bring their faith to the public square, and you won’t want to miss this conversation about opportunities we have as Americans to engage...
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Special Episode: Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law
Respecting Religion
On this special bonus episode of the Respecting Religion podcast, we are featuring a conversation that could not wait until our normal release date. In this still-developing story, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was mistakenly removed by the U.S. government from Maryland to El Salvador. His case and series of injustices are not just things that move all of us as people of faith, but there are also profound ramifications of this situation on due process, the rule of law and freedom for everyone living in our country. Our next full episode of Respecting Religion will feature a conversation with...
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S6, Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times
Respecting Religion
There has been no shortage of news from all three branches of government in Washington, D.C., but one thing hasn’t changed: the U.S. Supreme Court continues to be interested in religious liberty cases. On today’s show, Amanda and Holly review the recent oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin, which focuses on a religious exemption in the state’s unemployment compensation laws. There are big questions being asked in this case, such as where one draws the lines, how can “religion” be defined, and what is meant – exactly – by the term “proselytization.”...
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S6, Ep. 11: African Americans and Religious Freedom
Respecting Religion
African Americans’ knowledge traditions, religious practices, political cultures and ideas are rich resources that facilitate new concepts of religious freedom. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Dr. Sabrina E. Dent and Dr. Corey D. B. Walker join Amanda and Holly to discuss the book they co-edited, African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. It’s a collection of essays that provide novel interpretations of religious freedom informed by African American experiences, which are essential for a full public discourse about the...
info_outlineThe most consequential church-state case of this Supreme Court term involves whether the government could – or even must – fund religious charter schools. Amanda and Holly examine key moments in the oral arguments from Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond, playing clips from the courtroom and looking at how the justices may apply recent precedent to shape future law. As BJC noted in the brief we filed, if the government funds religious charter schools, it will drag our government deeper into questions it is unfit to answer on matters of doctrine and church composition. That’s not government neutrality toward religion – that’s religious preference repackaged as educational choice.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 01:53): Developments since our previous show
Amanda and Holly talked about the Catholic Charities/Wisconsin case in episode 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times
We released our episode with Melissa Rogers to coincide with the first 100 days of the Trump administration. It is episode 13 of season 6: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good
President Donald Trump issued a proclamation on the National Day of Prayer and he signed an executive order on the same day establishing the Religious Liberty Commission.
The American Bar Association has a website page dedicated to National Law Day You can click this link to read President Donald Trump’s proclamation on “Loyalty Day and Law Day.”
The Respecting Religion podcast won a 2025 “Best in Class” award from the Religion Communicators Council’s DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards for our episode titled: “But … is it Christian nationalism?” from season 5.
Segment 2 (starting at 09:51): Oral arguments in Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond
Holly mentioned this article from The Washington Post by Justin Jouvenal and Laura Meckler that provides an overview of the case: How religious public schools went from a long shot to the Supreme Court
Holly and Amanda discussed these cases as they worked their way through the courts in episode 16 of season 5: The trouble with *religious* charter schools
BJC filed an amicus brief in Oklahoma v. Drummond, along with other Christian organizations as well as Jewish, Muslim and interfaith groups. Click here to read our brief.
We played four clips in this segment from the oral arguments in Oklahoma v. Drummond. You can visit the Supreme Court’s website for a transcript of the arguments and an audio recording of the arguments.
- Clip #1: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson & Solicitor General John Sauer
- Clip #2: Chief Justice John Roberts
- Clip #3: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson
- Clip #4: Justice Elena Kagan & Michael McGinley
Amanda and Holly mentioned three decisions authored by Chief Justice John Roberts that developed a new way of understanding the Free Exercise Clause. They are:
- Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017)
- Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020)
- Carson v. Makin (2022)
Holly’s 2017 column on the Trinity Lutheran decision is titled “Decidedly narrow, deeply troubling.”
Segment 3 (starting 37:12): What do we expect?
We played one clip from the oral argument in this segment: The opening statement of Greg Garre, who argued the case for the attorney general of Oklahoma.
Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.