The Legalpreneurs Sandbox

The legal ecosystem is transforming but to what, for whom, where, why and how? Join us to learn about the next best practices and how legaltech is impacting your legal business. Learn from the people who are “walking the talk.” Hear what they are doing and what has driven them to do things differently for their clients, their people, their organisations and themselves and, how they measure and learn from success and failure. We’re going to get candid, super practical and yes, we’re going to get techy and legally innovative too!

Episode 211: Future 50 Series - GenAI and Legal Ops - What’s next? 05/29/2025

Episode 211: Future 50 Series - GenAI and Legal Ops - What’s next? In many respects, generative AI has impacted few roles as directly as legal operations. These professionals sit at the epicentre of tech experimentation, deployment, adoption, evaluation and change. As the tech has evolved, so too has their role to right now, being part tech interpreter, teacher, multidisciplinary relationship builder, enterprise-wide and legal function collaborator, and connector. That’s been layered into what they have always done, practical problem solving to ensure the legal department responds to organisational needs with timely, measured, candid and practical solutions for the day-to-day business at hand. With GenAI, some of the problems are new and/or have become more complex. Solutions have had to evolve as the tech has evolved at an unprecedented pace, scale, and level of pervasive impact not seen before. And, old issues have also remained and have changed too like corporate responsibilities for data governance, privacy, ethics, cybersecurity, all culminating in an expanding portfolio of compliance and risk management. We discussed all of this and much more with Australia’s co-leads: , Legal Operations Professional; , Executive Manager Legal and Company Secretariat Operations, IAG; and , Legal Operations, Australian Retirement Trust. In addition to their thoughts on the topics above, their passion for their work and for the community that CLOC has created globally and locally was clear. In their view the big impact of GenAI on the legal ops role is one of expansion – more opportunities to support, assist, and connect legal to what is happening in our ecosystem but also to the critical and changing role of legal departments within their own companies. There is a discernible opportunity, identified in this discussion, for digitally literate professionals with human skills in influencing, persuasion, adaptability, flexibility, relationship building and more than anything else, curiosity, to join and enhance a career in legal ops. We concluded our chat with a preview of what those curious professionals can expect from two CLOC Australia amazing events in Sydney in August 2025: CLOC Academy (19 August) for new and immediate next level legal ops professionals – you’ll find registration details ; and CLOC Australia Summit 2025 (20 August) for everyone interested and working in legal ops – you’ll find registration details . If you want a glimpse into how GenAI is impacting legal ops today and in the future, you’ll want to spend a little time listening to this podcast or watching the video – you’ll find the video . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: . /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/36766760

Episode 210: Future 50 Series – Small Words, Big Consequences: How prompts are redefining legal practice 05/29/2025

Episode 209: Legal GenAI Conversations Series: The Lawyerless Law Firm – Myth or Reality in 2030? 05/07/2025

Episode 208: Legal GenAI Conversations Series – Will GenAI kill the billable hour…ever? 04/17/2025

Episode 208: Legal GenAI Conversations Series – Will GenAI kill the billable hour…ever? There’s little more fundamental to every business than revenue. In law firms, for a while now, that’s been measured by the billable hour. In most law firms today, we still wrap up hours billed in the same parcel as expertise, performance, and value. That’s a BIG problem and it’s getting bigger as AI and particularly generative AI is completing tasks faster, better, and cheaper AND starting to advance into complex problem solving too! So, what does that mean for law firms? Can we/should we all immediately convert to fixed fees, subscriptions and/or value-based pricing or something entirely new? What happens if we do? What happens if we don’t? Where do we go to figure it out? We chatted about all of that and more on 16 April 2025 in the third podcast in ’s on Will GenAI kill the billable hour…ever? , Executive Director of the was joined by three amazing guests with a wealth of experience to share from Australia and New Zealand: , Executive Director & Experience Designer, and , Managing Director, and , CEO and Practice Leader, and Topics covered in this episode included: Whether generative AI has put pressure on law firms to reconsider the billable hour, or if it is still mostly hype What are the most viable alternative fee models are and how if generative AI making these more attractive or feasible The key advantages and disadvantages of moving away from the billable hour toward alternative fee arrangements in a GenAI powered legal landscape How law firms have managed the impact of alternative models on lawyer and allied legal professional remuneration, bonuses, performance reviews and career progression The key focus for law firms to have in mind when deciding to move from the billable hour model You’ll find details about the other topics we’ll be discussing in this series . If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this episode, you’ll find the video in our CLI-Collaborate (CLIC) free Resource Hub . Don’t forget to join CLI’s free Legal Generative AI Community – it’s a lightly curated daily news feed on all things legal GenAI. /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/36200000

Episode 207: Legal GenAI Conversations Series – Legal leaders in the AI era – Are we there yet? 03/20/2025

Episode 206: Future 50 Series – The Law Profs GenAI Sandbox – Empowering legal educators in the age of AI 03/19/2025

Episode 206: Future 50 Series – The Law Profs GenAI Sandbox – Empowering legal educators in the age of AI Generative AI has created a critical role for educators. Everyone is learning something new, and educators know how to make that meaningful and stick. Whether the tech is forcing us to challenge traditional mindsets, understand a new context for our work, experiment with new ways to work, or embrace different ways to collaborate with different people so we find the right solutions to new issues, educators have a pivotal role to play. In this session, we chatted with three professors in the US who took their individual experiences with generative AI, and their learnings in their respective disciplines, to create a resource and community for legal educators to learn, share, and do more with this tech – they called it Our discussion with the fabulous founders of the Sandbox: , Assistant Director for Instructional Technology, LSU Law Library, ; , Assistant Professor of Law, Erick Vincent Anderson Professor, ; and , Assistant Professor of Law, , was enlightening and inspiring. We kicked off with where generative AI is taking higher education; delved into how the Sandbox started and where it might go next; and concluded with benchmarking where and how educators can embrace the tech. But, what was also evident throughout the entire discussion was the joy, excitement, and passion these profs have for finding ways to use the tech so it enhances learning for students and supports their colleagues in using it effectively and efficiently too. If you are working in education and particularly legal education, you will not want to miss this one! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/35770060

Episode 205: Legal GenAI Conversations Series – The Lawyer Mindset 02/24/2025

Episode 204: Welcome to Lex ExploreAI Series – What you can expect! 02/10/2025

Episode 203: Future 50 Series – Legal Innovation and Tech in 2024 – A year in review 12/16/2024

Episode 203: Future 50 Series – Legal Innovation and Tech in 2024 – A year in review We’re back for our sixth year and what a year it has been for legaltech, AI and innovation! If 2023 was the year to figure out what generative AI was all about, then 2024 was most definitely the year for pilots, experimentation, and strategies for data and AI. Well, that was how it went for some, but not everyone… In this, our annual year in review, we discussed what happened and where the dust settled in 2024 with , Partner and Chief Knowledge & Innovation Officer at and Co-chair of the ; , Head of Legal Technology and Client Services at and Host of CLI’s Legal Ops Clinic in 2024; and , CEO and Practice Leader at and member of the . We started this session by discussing the discernible shift in mindset during 2024 from questioning if the legal industry should engage with generative AI, to embracing it as well as understanding and learning how to manage its issues – we collectively reached a new level of AI maturity! As we dug deeper on impacts, we identified some key changes enabled by AI, particularly generative AI, to the business and practice of law this year, including: Non-negotiable “must haves” for the tech – easy to use, convenient, clearly identifiable benefits. New levels of tech engagement – GenAI creates a space where “personal life meets professional life” and consequently its uptake has been faster and at an unprecedented scale. Redefining collaboration – different partnerships, different interactions, different client engagements, emerging coalitions of competitors working and learning together, all focused on building a strong legal ecosystem that delivers on the potential, promises, and opportunities of generative AI but also knows how to manage its challenges. Redefining legal work - from conception to delivery and everything in between. Redefining value – what matters most, authenticity or efficiency and, are they the only choices? Where does pricing and billing by the hour fit into all of this? Redefining capabilities for practice – meeting people where they are so they can work out where they need to go together and individually. Redefining metrics – are we measuring impact or use or something else? Are metrics the same for this tech for all its uses? We need to know if the investment in the tech is moving us forward, or not, but it may be well into 2025 before we work this one out. Redefining employment and workforce – employees are now in search of digitally enabled employers and employers in search of digitally and data literate employees. Is going to a law firm or legal department that is not tech-enabled now a career-limiting move? What will that do to the legal workforce? Embracing capabilities where you find them, not where you expect them – making the tech available to everyone can result in an expansion of roles, new roles, and uncovering tech-related capabilities that enhance careers and your workforce where they may have otherwise remained hidden. Understanding that the pace and scale of change is now a constant and must be proactively managed. We need to understand the human consequence of this i.e., unparalleled change fatigue and the need to focus on human wellbeing more than ever before. And, Graeme demonstrated his interactive avatar too – we all want him to build us one! We wrapped with what will come next in 2025. Will ops teams lead the way? Will our humanity and creativity be best explored through play? Will a growing sophistication in how we use GenAI, especially by clients, reinvent the B2B, B2C and D2C markets? Thank you sooooo much Caryn, Graeme and Tessa – this is a session we look forward to every year and we’re certain you will too – don’t miss this one! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series, we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: . /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/34478285

Episode 202: Future 50 Series - Breaking New Ground in Legal Education – Vanderbilt Law School’s AI Lab 11/26/2024

Episode 202: Future 50 Series - Breaking New Ground in Legal Education – Vanderbilt Law School’s AI Lab In this session, we spoke with , a Founding Co-Director of the (VAILL) and a Professor of the Practice of Law at the AIGP. Mark has come to AI via journalism, law, sometime in the political world and knowledge management. In many respects, his work now draws on that rich professional and personal life experience. Today, Mark is deeply immersed in working with and educating future generations of lawyers through the AI Law Lab. The Lab is a hands-on, multidisciplinary, experiential learning opportunity at (VLS). The VLS AI Law Lab is preparing law graduates for the next generation of legal practice and leadership. It’s modelling a different way of teaching and learning in partnership with industry - one that is comfortable with experimentation and supports students in understanding the tech, its limitations and opportunities, from the ground up. VLS’s has a long history in transformative legal education, especially in the tech/AI space. We chatted with Mark about that too i.e., what drives VLS’s leadership, mindset, and comfort with embracing new, different, and supporting their graduates to do that too…their secret sauce! We wrapped this conversation by discussing the broader impact of AI education in the legal industry - the importance of digital and data literacy and, if we have arrived, or still edging towards, a different type of legal practice. Don’t miss this spotlight, if you haven’t engaged with AI before now, this will be your catalyst to start your journey today! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: . /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/34152350

Episode 201: Legal GenAI Around the World: Africa + Middle East 07/23/2024

Episode 200: Future 50 Series – Innovator in Residence – A leap forward in legal AI from the Ontario Bar Association! 07/11/2024

Episode 200: Future 50 Series – Innovator in Residence – A leap forward in legal AI from the Ontario Bar Association! In this session, we spoke with , the (OBA) and the Principal of law firm coaching and consulting business. Colin has spent most of his career in the legal industry. He’s worked in publishing, consulting, and legaltech development just to name a few. In all that he has done, and it’s a lot, there’s been a consistent theme – he’s comfortable with challenging the status quo and doing things differently. He’s been named one of the “Top 25 Most Influential Lawyers” by Canadian Lawyer Magazine, a “Legal Rebel” by the ABA Journal and is a member of the Fastcase 50 class of legal innovators and visionaries. Colin’s amazing background both qualifies and recommends him for his role as Innovator in Residence at the OBA. It’s a unique role for legal member organisations. It was launched in 2018. Each innovator is appointed for 12 months and pursues a different focus area, always with a change agenda. Colin’s focus area could not be more topical…it’s legal AI. His action plan is ambitious, critical, timely and compelling. It comprises a multi-pronged approach to supporting the digital literacy of OBA’s members at scale. His work will impact the 16,000 lawyers OBA represents and influence many, many more. It includes tech demos, weekly information sessions, establishing an interactive learning platform and…he is just getting started! We spoke about all of this as well as the global and local context that led to Colin’s appointment i.e., how GenAI has become an enabler for significant change in the legal world; how the pace, depth and breadth of that change is reinventing legal practice; and how it is incumbent on us all to embrace that change. Don’t miss this spotlight, it’s going to excite and inspire you! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: . /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/32092522

Episode 199: Legal GenAI Around the World: Europe + UK 07/03/2024

Episode 198: Legal GenAI Around the World: USA 07/03/2024

Episode 197: Legal GenAI Around the World: Asia 04/16/2024

Episode 196: Legal GenAI Around the World: Australia + New Zealand 03/13/2024

Episode 195: Future 50 Series – Legal Innovation and Tech in 2023 – A year in review 12/14/2023

Episode 195: Future 50 Series – Legal Innovation and Tech in 2023 – A year in review This session has become an annual event for us and, this was a BIG year to review the world of legaltech, AI and innovation. So much has happened since ChatGPT exploded onto the market in November 2022. Its impact has been pervasive, even in an industry like legal which would not, in the past, have been described as agile. So, what changed in 2023? What stuck, what didn’t, and why? We welcomed back , Partner and Chief Knowledge & Innovation Officer at and Co-chair of the ; , Head of Legal Technology and Client Services at ; and , CEO and Practice Leader at , to discuss this and, we wrapped with a little crystal ball gazing into 2024 too! We started this session with identifying why GenAI has captured our attention, dominated every conference, meeting, and the media so completely. Then we moved into the nitty gritty of it all, identifying use cases, interrogating how tech stacks have changed, and how that is impacting the law firm business model (client relationships, billing, risk and value). And we spent a little time on the huge question around capabilities too – do we have them, what do they look like, and how we can bridge the gaps? There’s a lot going on in legal businesses right now, in all these areas, so we also explored how these businesses are strategising and planning for/in a market that is changing so rapidly and dramatically. That discussion took us to the next, how leaders/leadership are/is being reinvented for a new legal world, and that for many, this will involve a steep learning curve. We wrapped with what will come next, in the first month of 2024. While plans differed, one thing was certain, we all have to find the space to reflect, consider next steps, and find the calm in this AI storm. Thank you sooooo much Caryn, Graeme and Tessa – this is a session we look forward to every year and we’re certain you will too – don’t miss this one! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: . /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/29074633

Episode 194: Future 50 Series – What the future of AI holds for the legal industry 12/06/2023

Episode 194: Future 50 Series – What the future of AI holds for the legal industry In this session, we spoke with , the Founder and Director of legal industry-focused tech consultancy, ESPconnect and an Adjunct Professor (Industry) at UTS Faculty of Law. Beth’s career has the distinctive hallmark of being groundbreaking. The depth and breadth of her experience in tech and legaltech, in tech companies and law firms, as a consultant and educator, means she has a highly practical, global and unique perspective on where AI in the legal industry is going today. Our discussion began with context - placing generative AI in the broader AI continuum - and moved into its impact on the legal industry. We are all still experimenting (testing and investing) in every industry, legal included, and we should be because there are still major issues with the tech that need to be worked out. However, what was also clear from our chat is the need for us to engage with the tech NOW because it’s not going away, not ever! Senior management in law firms know this (as do our clients) and they’re driving the engagement with it, something that makes this tech journey different from others. What AI will we end up with at the end of this journey? Beth opines it will be a portfolio - a combination of enterprise-wide tech and point solutions, with commercial models driving the selection of what you use, for what and when. But, integration will also remain key; data governance critical; and capabilities to identify pain points, choose and use/apply fit-for-purpose tech increasingly part of every solution and BAU. The opportunities with AI in legal are plentiful for those who jump in – new roles, new responsibilities, new practice areas (or expanded), new revenue streams, increasingly refined LLMs that do more and do it better – it’s a brave old and new world which we will embrace with FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) or JOMO (Joy of Missing Out) – you’ll definitely want to listen to or watch this session to see where you fall on the continuum! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video . Resources: Thomson Reuters Institute, Edge International, and ESPconnect: Thomson Reuters, The conference referred to it this session is CLI’s Legal Generative AI Summit 2023 (24 and 25 October) – you will find the video and podcast recordings . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series, we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: . /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/28953948

Episode 193: Future 50 Series – Onit’s AI Center of Excellence 11/06/2023

Episode 192: Future 50 Series – Legal Leaders, Teams, Innovation and Collaboration 11/03/2023

Episode 191: The importance of being human in a legal AI world! 11/01/2023

Episode 190: Legal Generative AI in 2024… 10/30/2023

Episode 189: Legal Education Reinvented: No pens, no paper, no professors? 10/30/2023

Episode 188: Emerging Legal AI Roles – adding, subtracting, coming, going…and everything, everywhere in between! 10/30/2023

Episode 187: Experimentation – is it the next collaborative legal practice? 10/30/2023

Episode 186: Legal professional responsibility in the digital age – critical, outdated or redundant? 10/30/2023

Episode 185: Unlocking Justice: The potential and perils of generative AI in improving access to justice 10/30/2023

Episode 184: Law Unlimited: Welcome to the re-envisioned legal profession 10/26/2023

Episode 183: Can GenAI live up to its promise… and what is it promising now? 10/26/2023

Episode 182: Future 50 Series – Choosing your AI expert – What you need to know right now! 10/07/2023

Episode 182: Future 50 Series – Choosing your AI expert – What you need to know right now! It’s been almost a year since launched! For many of us, that opened the door to a new world – new concepts, new terms, confusion, frustration, exhilaration – a whole lot of stuff to understand, implement and manage. We needed guidance but the sort that shines a light on where to go and doesn’t require us to build the flashlight first. It takes a special combination of capabilities to do that, not everyone has them but determining who does, who doesn’t, and asking the right questions to engage the right person to assist can be hard, especially in new and emerging areas of expertise. Get the match right, and it can jump a legal business ahead in leaps and bounds. Get it wrong, and it will do the opposite but worse, create a culture of inertia that can last for years. We spoke with someone who knows all about that, , the Co-founder and Business Designer of and author of . Josh’s deep experience in the legal ecosystem most particularly in advising on, leading, and delivering legal services done differently, qualifies him as someone who knows what it takes to make a contemporary legal business work and who it takes to do that too. Josh’s work in the legal generative AI space is outstanding. He has combined his passion for tech, design, education, writing, and innovation with an entrepreneurial flare to produce a powerhouse of resources (check out ) - videos, blogs, newsletters, checklists - to help the legal world embrace generative AI. We spoke with Josh about one of his many projects, the – it’s like a mini-CV for your next AI presenter so you can be sure to engage someone who really knows their stuff. In so many ways it typifies the work Josh is doing in this space – pragmatic, thoughtful, insightful, user-friendly, cutting-edge, and ground breaking – we know you’re going to enjoy this conversation just as much as we did! If you would prefer to watch rather than listen to this podcast, you’ll find the video . About the Future 50 Series In the Future 50 Series we’re chatting with legalpreneurs who, through their ideas and actions, are challenging and transforming legal BAU all around the world. If you would like to recommend people for this Series, please contact us at: . /episode/index/show/tlpsb/id/28251176

The Legalpreneurs Sandbox

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