105. John Knepper, To the White House and Back to Wyoming

John Knepper thought he would pursue a career in theater after graduating and performing at the Harvard Radcliffe summer theater. However, after  moving to Memphis, Tennessee, he took a left turn and started working in the marketing department of the nation's fifth largest security guard company. After nine months there, John quit his job and traveled around the country for six months.

Working in Washington on Immigration Laws

On the last leg of his travels, he was in Washington where, by chance, he met the assistant to the Chief of Staff for Senator Al Simpson of Wyoming. Six months later they called him for an interview and subsequently he started working on Capitol Hill. He talks about his work as a personal assistant for a senator before moving on to work for the Senate Judiciary Committee. 

In 1995 and 1996, he worked on the 1996 immigration law, which was the last major piece of immigration legislation passed by Congress. John also worked for Senator Fred Thompson of Tennessee on the Governmental Affairs Committee and Homeland Security Committee for two years, where he worked on investigations into foreign influence in the 1996 Presidential election. John worked on campaign fundraising and regulatory reform, becoming one of the most knowledgeable staffers for the Senate Judiciary Committee without a law degree.

From Washington to Law School

In 1998, he decided to change careers and went to law school. He attended the University of Michigan School of Law, which was considered the best law school at the time.

Upon graduating from law school in 2001, he worked for a federal judge for a year and later held a position with the US Department of Justice in the Federal Programs Branch. He was part of the team that defended the McCain Feingold campaign finance law, and John talks about  how the law faced constitutional challenges and the mistrust among the Republican and Democratic National Committees. John discusses his role in document review at the Republican and Democratic National Committees, and his decision to build an effective record of campaign finance regulations. He also talks about working on national security issues for President Bush, such as the freezing of assets of the Iraqi government and the question of how to give Iraq billions of dollars back to the government.

Working as the Associate General Counsel of the OMB

John was called to work as the Associate General Counsel of the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in 2004. OMB is an agency within the White House responsible for ensuring that federal government actions are consistent with the President's priorities. Originating under President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, OMB is responsible for reviewing all testimony, legislation, and major regulations issued by the executive branch to Congress. 

He talks about working under President Bush and eventually becoming the deputy general counsel of the Office of Management and Budget. The office was responsible for supporting the President's views and clearing executive orders. The general counsel's office was also responsible for reaching out to other federal agencies to discuss concerns and ensure they understood the consequences of their actions.

Fannie Mae,  Freddie Mac, and Financial Bailouts

In summer 2008, a friend of John's, who had been in the White House Counsel's office, called him to discuss the economic concerns with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. John moved over to become the Deputy General Counsel of the Treasury. The conversation turns to the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the potential bankruptcy of AIG, and the impact of money market funds on the economy. He talks about the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) which was developed to provide an asset against which companies could borrow from the Federal Reserve. This allowed the government to keep the velocity of money in the system, and AIG was a prime example of how the US government managed to keep these businesses operating.

He also discusses an unsung moment during the financial bailout and the collaboration between Merrill Lynch and Wachtell Lipton, Rosen and Katz, and one reason for the bailout.

From Washington to Wyoming

In 2009, John was unemployed due to elections having consequences. He moved to Wyoming, where the economy was buffered by long-term commodities contracts, and he started working for the city of Cheyenne Wyoming as an attorney, working on $50 million government programs. John talks about Wyoming’s unique tax system, with no state income tax, so revenue is largely mineral taxation. He worked with people in Wyoming suing companies over tax burdens. John worked there for two years before falling into another position as the Attorney General of Wyoming. He was appointed as the Chief Deputy Attorney General of Wyoming, and for five years, from 2013 to 2019, he was the number two lawyer for the state where he worked on environmental, law enforcement, and gun rights issues.

Establishing a Solo Practice 

From March 2019 onwards, John moved on to solo private practice in Wyoming. He chose this path because he wanted to take on more controversial litigation and avoid moving their family to a different location. He discusses his experience as a political appointee of George W. Bush and involvement in pro life cases, including pre and post Dobbs litigation on pro life issues. John has also been involved in controversial cases, such as defending coverage of gender transition services and determining equal protection. Large law firms often avoid this area due to financial constraints. His practice is paid law, with clients ranging from wills for small to large corporations, and he works on multi-district litigation.

Influential Professors and Courses at Harvard

John mentions a class on the Holocaust and genocide by Professor Eric Goldhagen, which he found to be incredibly profound. This course changed his interest in understanding the reasons behind people's resistance to horrible decisions, such as murder and atrocities. He also took courses on resistance to authority from social psychologist Herb Kelman and his senior thesis on the concept of the witch at the Salem witch trials. He mentions Professor Orlando Patterson of the Sociology department at Harvard had a class on freedom, focusing on the origins of the western and American concepts of freedom and liberty.

Timestamps:

05:00: Career path from Congressional staffer to lawyer

11:26: Defending campaign finance law in court

16:17: Legal questions related to Iraq invasion and asset recovery

21:47: White House roles and responsibilities

27:54: Government bailouts during the 2008 financial crisis

34:28: Financial crisis, bailouts, and government intervention

40:18: Tax compliance, job loss, and career changes

46:12: Legal work in Wyoming, including coal mining and environmental issues

51:40: Legal cases related to gender identity and health insurance coverage

55:24: Personal growth, career paths, and Holocaust education

59:57: The concept of freedom, heroism, and redemption

1:05:36: Life decisions, fountain pen hobby, and connecting with others

Links: 

Email:  [email protected] 

Featured Non-profits

The featured non-profits of this episode are the 52nd Street Project and Village Arts Theater, recommended by  Jeannie Simpson who reports:

This is Jeannie Simpson, class of 1992 and the featured nonprofits for this episode are the 52nd Street Project and Village Arts Theater. The 52nd street project is in New York City, and my husband and I both volunteered there for about 10 years. It takes kids from Hell's Kitchen community and pairs them with theater professionals to write and perform original plays. It also offers homework help and mentor programs and all kinds of arts classes. It's free for the children who want to participate, and it's just a really awesome example of the transformative power of storytelling through theater. The second nonprofit I want to recommend is in Los Angeles, California, and it's called Village Arts Theater. It is a nonprofit that provides all kinds of arts classes and opportunities for kids from the community, ages four to 14 to participate in plays and in classes. It's an inclusive program, and no child is turned away because of financial need. And I have taught, volunteered, directed, choreographed for village arts for a decade. I still work with them, and both my children were raised in this theater program, and I have seen countless children benefit from all the amazing things that it has to offer. 52nd Street Project website is the numbers five, two and then the word project.org, and village arts website is one word, village arts theater with an R E at the end.org, 52 project.org, and villageartstheatre.org. And org, and they are both worth checking out and worthy of your time, your money, your talents, resources, whatever you might have to offer. And now here is Will Bachmann with this week's episode. 

To learn more about their work visit:  52 project.org and villageartstheatre.org.