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Nikki Lerner on Life After Full Time Ministry, Worship Culture Conundrums, & Fostering Multicultural Churches

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Release Date: 02/05/2025

Nathan Apffel & Chris Ayoub on The Religion Business show art Nathan Apffel & Chris Ayoub on The Religion Business

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: The Religious Exemption and what it means How we can use worship as a subtle form of manipulation The mega church structure and the dangers associated with it Integrity in church financials The upcoming Religious Business documentary Accountability in the church and a robust hope for the future Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being...

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Rich Villodas on Charismatic vs Contemplative Tensions, Church Growth, & The Narrow Path of Jesus show art Rich Villodas on Charismatic vs Contemplative Tensions, Church Growth, & The Narrow Path of Jesus

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: How New Life Fellowship cultivates a multicultural community How to hold the contemplative and the charismatic together How to lead congregations with different political views Why church growth is unhealthy to obsess over Pastoring people through racial tension A biblical view of worship ministry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Rich Villodas by Rich Villodas by Rich Villodas Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to...

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Nikki Lerner on Life After Full Time Ministry, Worship Culture Conundrums, & Fostering Multicultural Churches show art Nikki Lerner on Life After Full Time Ministry, Worship Culture Conundrums, & Fostering Multicultural Churches

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

"We've made the list of everything that could go wrong. It's time to make the list of everything that could go right." - Nikki Lerner Topics Covered: What it's like to leave full time ministry after 20+ years The challenge of doing ministry when you're paid to do it full time The importance of creative outlets outside of the church What to do when you're bored with worship music Nikki's philosophy of worship How to become a multicultural church The difference between multi colored and multicultural Mono-ethnocentricism and the worship industry Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show...

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Malcolm DuPlessis on Racial Tension, Injustice, & The Commercialization of Worship show art Malcolm DuPlessis on Racial Tension, Injustice, & The Commercialization of Worship

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: Malcolm's story of activism in South Africa Similarities of American culture today with South Africa in the 1970s and 80s. The spiritual underground and what that means What it means to be a Kingdom of Priests Some of the artists who make up Common Hymnal The problem with becoming comercially viable The story behind Common Hymnal's new "Be Love" song Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Common Hymnal Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with...

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Mike O'Brien on Worship Artist/Leader Tensions, Local Church Ministry, & The Gift of Obscurity show art Mike O'Brien on Worship Artist/Leader Tensions, Local Church Ministry, & The Gift of Obscurity

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: 5 of the biggest needs facing worship leaders right now The reality of worship ministry The difference between artist and worship leader The gift of obscurity The tensions of not earning worship artist fame To use tracks or not to use tracks? Practical tips for speaking from the stage Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: - Mike's Ministry Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk...

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Tommy Preson Phillips on Why People Are Leaving The Church To Look For Christ show art Tommy Preson Phillips on Why People Are Leaving The Church To Look For Christ

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: Why deconstruction is a prophetic warning to the church Tommy's deconstruction journey and why he became a Pastor Why most evangelical churches today lack engagement The problem with the worship industry and local church worship Why people are leaving the church Why the modern mega church looks more like Babylon than Christ Why worship leaders need to view themselves as liturgists  Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Scot McKnight & Tommy Preson Phillips - where Tommy pastors Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of...

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Kelsey Kramer McGinnis On Music, Money, & Profits in the Worship Industry (And What That Means For the Rest of Us) show art Kelsey Kramer McGinnis On Music, Money, & Profits in the Worship Industry (And What That Means For the Rest of Us)

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Kelsey is a brilliant thinker. She is a musicologist and educator based in Iowa, holding a PhD from the University of Iowa. Currently, Kelsey is a regular contributor to Christianity Today, writing and reporting on worship and church culture. She is also an adjunct professor at Grand View University in Des Moines, where she teaches on music and social justice. As as a graduate student and adjunct faculty member at the University of Iowa, she taught a variety of courses on music history, social justice and the arts, and human rights. She served on the staff of the from 2010-2019, where she was...

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Mac Powell on CCM Through the Years, Worship Music, & Personal Soul Care show art Mac Powell on CCM Through the Years, Worship Music, & Personal Soul Care

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: The changes in Christian music from the 90s to now The worship music boom of the early 2000s and The story behind Third Day's Offering worship record in 2000 Why leading worship in a local church is harder than leading a worship concert The importance of self care for artists and worship leaders What the transition from band to solo artist has been like for Mac Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Mac Powell Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also...

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Aodhan King on Early Young & Free Days, New Music, & Christ Centered Worship show art Aodhan King on Early Young & Free Days, New Music, & Christ Centered Worship

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: How Aodhan got connected to Hillsong The beginning of Young & Free The growth and struggle with popularity and touring The writing of new music God centered worship songs Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Aodhan King Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning . As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using...

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Martin Smith on The Future of Worship Music, Local Church, & Songs of Joy show art Martin Smith on The Future of Worship Music, Local Church, & Songs of Joy

Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered: What if felt like to make music in the early days of Delirious Why Martin moves in spontaneous/prophetic worship Why worship music less bold and creative today Why joy and celebration are needed in worship today Mega Church reform The Rockstar Worship Leader pandemic What it's like having Stu G on the new record Stories behind songs on the new record, Joy Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Martin Smith Show Sponsor: My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with...

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More Episodes

"We've made the list of everything that could go wrong. It's time to make the list of everything that could go right." - Nikki Lerner

Topics Covered:

  • What it's like to leave full time ministry after 20+ years
  • The challenge of doing ministry when you're paid to do it full time
  • The importance of creative outlets outside of the church
  • What to do when you're bored with worship music
  • Nikki's philosophy of worship
  • How to become a multicultural church
  • The difference between multi colored and multicultural
  • Mono-ethnocentricism and the worship industry

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor:

My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.

It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.

First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.

In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do.