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Nikki Lerner on Life After Full Time Ministry, Worship Culture Conundrums, & Fostering Multicultural Churches

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Release Date: 02/05/2025

Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart show art Why We Need Anabaptism And The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Drew G.I. Hart

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Not all spiritual formation is created equal. Just because you read your Bible, pray, and go to church every Sunday does not mean you are being renewed - as Colossians 3:10 says - in the image and knowledge of your creator. A very good litmus test for us as followers of Jesus is…do we look like Jesus? Do we love what Jesus loved? Do we love whom Jesus loved? Do we speak as Jesus spoke? Do we embody what Jesus lived and died for? That has been the historical definition of a Christian for generations: little Christs.  With the rise of Christian nationalism in our present day, many outside...

info_outline Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey show art Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

When I was a young teenager, I heard a traveling evangelist say the best form of therapy was speaking in tongues. The preacher at the time was criticizing modern therapy as unchristian and, ultimately unnecessary. We don’t need to sit in rooms and endless unpack our problems and our past trauma. What people need more than anything - he said - is the presence of God. I understand the sentiment. I love the presence of God. I believe there is tremendous value in spiritual disciplines, practices, and experiences with God. But what happens to our formation as people when we are trained to be...

info_outline The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche show art The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

I remember my days as a young worship leader. There was always this unspoken tension between being performative and pastoral. Is it my job as a worship leader to provide a powerful, exciting experience or to guide them in a healthy practice for their spiritual formation? When we say worship was really good this week, what do we mean? If you lead worship, you know the tension. When you put a singer or musician on a stage, under the lights, it is by definition a performance. Performance is not a bad thing,but we, at the same time feel uncomfortable talking about performance when it comes to...

info_outline Empire, Resistance, And Faith On The Margins With Kat Armas show art Empire, Resistance, And Faith On The Margins With Kat Armas

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

If you’re like me, a child of the 80s, you grew up watching Star Wars. I understood a lot about Star Wars but what I didn’t understand at the time was how political it was. The empire and the rebellion. Resistance. Fighting for the underdog and the oppressed. Fighting for an alternative way of being that is not dictated by empire. One of my goals with this podcast is to create a diverse platform of voices within the church. Voices on the margins. Artists on the margins. Theologians on the margins. One of those important voices is author and Cuban-American theologian Kat Armas. One of my...

info_outline The Uncomfortable Intersection Of Business And Worship with Anna Golden show art The Uncomfortable Intersection Of Business And Worship with Anna Golden

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

The idea of worship is simple. Uncomplicated. When you think about it, worship is ascribing worth to someone or something. As people of faith, we ascribe to God the worth, praise and adoration that He is due. But worship that intersects with industry and organizations is inherently complicated. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. That the worship industry is wrong or all mega church worship is unbiblical. What it means that it’s complicated and it’s worth the wrestle. Today’s guest is Anna Golden - a worship leader, songwriter, and artist. Anna is a worship leader at Shoreline City Church...

info_outline Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan show art Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Throughout church history there has always been an interesting tension between creativity and functionality. What is more important? Creating beautiful things or getting a certain message across? What is more important to worship? Right theology or beautiful art that displays the glory of God? Do we need better theology in our songs or more honesty? We intuitively know this is a tension to manage, not a problem to solv  e. No one would argue that theology doesn’t matter. But has our pursuit of rightness caused us to lose some imagination? Some humanity? Has our church culture fixation...

info_outline Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants With Evan Wickham show art Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants With Evan Wickham

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

I’m not a Lead Pastor, but I can’t imagine anything more difficult than pastoring in today’s political climate. We feel that these days are unique, but in reality they are not. History has much to teach us. Occasionally I like to bring Lead Pastors onto the podcast to talk about how they’re navigating cultural issues. My guest today is Evan Wickham. Evan is the older brother of Phil Wickham, also a worship leader and songwriter, and the pastor of Park Hill Church in San Diego, California. Here’s what’s interesting: In his very church, he has a Christian Border Patrol Agent and...

info_outline How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 with Michael Bethany show art How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 with Michael Bethany

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

When I accepted my first worship leader position over 20 years ago, I thought worship was all about the stage. Pick the right songs. Have the best musicians. Seamless transitions. Dial in your click and track system to perfection. While there’s nothing wrong with those dynamics - there was something I wasn’t considering. Worship culture. Now…culture has become a cliche - a buzzword, so to speak. But culture is the environment you steward. It’s the conditions you create to shape the people who are a part of your team. And that matters a lot. So today, we’re going to talk about worship...

info_outline The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson show art The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Topics Covered: Developing a theology of suffering The highs and lows of growing up Pentecostal What we can learn about Spirit and Truth from Eugene Peterson The diversity of the body of Christ within the attractional mega church, reformed church, and Pentecostal church The tension between organizational progress and pastoral care The story behind Michael's book title, "Daddy Set The Church on Fire" Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Michael Charles Olson by Michael Charles Olson Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry...

info_outline What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman show art What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Part of what I love to do with this podcast is highlight some voices that often get overlooked. Cultures that are often pushed to the margins of influence in the Church but have so much to offer us. Today I’m speaking with Terry Wildman. Terry is the Lead Translator of the First Nations Version of the Bible. Currently there is a New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs available. And the Old Testament is currently being developed. Terry is a man with native ancestry who grew up in Michigan, was saved during the Jesus Movement, and became pastor early on in his life. What’s fascinating about...

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"We've made the list of everything that could go wrong. It's time to make the list of everything that could go right." - Nikki Lerner

Topics Covered:

  • What it's like to leave full time ministry after 20+ years
  • The challenge of doing ministry when you're paid to do it full time
  • The importance of creative outlets outside of the church
  • What to do when you're bored with worship music
  • Nikki's philosophy of worship
  • How to become a multicultural church
  • The difference between multi colored and multicultural
  • Mono-ethnocentricism and the worship industry

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor:

My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.

It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.

First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.

In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do.