The Separation of Church and Concert with Andy Cherry
Release Date: 05/22/2025
The Church, Culture, & How Jesus Changes Everything with Stanley Hauerwas
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Today’s conversation is a bit of a departure from our usual worship leader/worship industry conversation. I’m talking with Stanley Hauerwas. Here’s his bio: Stanley Hauerwas, a theologian and Christian ethicist, is professor emeritus of theological ethics and of law at Duke University. He is the author or editor of more than fifty books, including Resident Aliens: Life in the Christian Colony (1989), which he co-authored with William H. Willimon. His lower-middle-class upbringing informed his later approach to theological and ethical questions (at one point, he was...
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Christianity in Chaos? How We Can Find Our Way in an Age of Confusion & Corruption with Glenn Packiam
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: We talk about how we can glean insights from various church traditions Why creeds are important Why the church’s reputation is suffering in America today How lead pastors and worship leaders can understand each other better What to look for in hiring a worship pastor. So let’s get right to my conversation with Glenn Packiam. Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Glenn Packiam website by Reed Hastings & Erin Meyer by John Ortberg Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your...
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Two White Guys Talking About The Black Church, Black Music, & Black Liberation (An Interview with David Gate)
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Today’s topic and subject matter is a tough one. I’m talking with my friend David Gate. David is a writer and poet. He has a new book releasing in 2025 called A Rebellion of Care. But David also has a long history as a worship leader, songwriter, and artist. David wrote an article recently in response to the new Ryan Coogler move Sinners, starring Michael B Jordan. The title of that article was I know. It’s a bold, often cutting article. And while I don’t agree with everything he says, I believe he gets to the heart of a tension that many feel. As with most of American culture...
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The Separation of Church and Concert with Andy Cherry
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Today’s conversation is with my friend Andy Cherry. Andy is a Worship Leader, former Worship Pastor, Songwriter with Capitol CMG, and touring bandmate with Brandon Lake. Andy is mega talented and a thoughtful voice on the tensions of worship and industry. As a professional songwriter, he’s someone whose livelihood is connected to the worship industry. We have a great chat about excellence culture in the church. Has it gone too far? Why it’s uncomfortable to combine the words “worship” and “industry”. Why we need to expand the kinds of leaders we hire into Worship Pastor...
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Christian Nationalism and Worship: Faith, Politics, & Identity with Dr. Lester Ruth
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Today’s conversation is with Dr. Lester Ruth, a research professor of Christian Worship at Duke Divinity School. If you go back in the archives you’ll see I interviewed Lester and Swee Hong Lim around the time they released their book A History of Contemporary Praise & Worship. Lester is a worship historian. The subject of this interview is about Christian Nationalism and Worship, a new course that Lester has been teaching. I wanted to interview Lester about this because I believe it has so much relevance to our current political climate, the church, and our worship practices. Now…I...
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How Industry And Christian Product Has Influenced Worship in the Local Church with Andrew Osenga
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Today’s conversation is with Andrew Osenga. Andrew is an artist, songwriter, producer, musician, and author. He used to do A&R with Integrity Music. Used to have a band called The Normals. Was a part of Caedmon’s Call. Has a host of solo records and albums. He’s a very thoughtful voice in this space of worship and spiritual formation. He leads a project called Anchor Hymns. This was a deep, far ranging conversation. Topics Covered: Why we didn't need to be sheltered from all thing secular How radio and Christian product has influenced our worship songwriting How fundamentalism...
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Leading Teams and Leading Worship in a Mega Church with Jordan Howerton
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Today’s conversation is an interesting juxtaposition to last week’s podcast with . Jason leads worship in a church of less than 100 people. Today’s guest - Jordan Howerton - is the Worship Pastor for one of the largest churches in the country - Christ’s Church of the Valley in Phoenix, AZ. If you’ve listened to the my podcast for a while, you’ll know I don’t believe bigger is better. There is beauty in small. There is dignity in serving and pastoring a small church with incremental or slow growth year after year. But for today, I want us to dive into the mega church dynamic. ...
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Small Church Worship, Click Tracks, & How Anyone Can Make a Worship Album with Jason Houtsma
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: Playing actual live music in worship The small church community Comparing large church/high production to small church/low production Why you might NOT want to use clicks and tracks Taking risks and being creative in worship again Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: (use promo code BEYOND2025) Show Sponsor: by Jason Houtsma by Chaim Potok Show Sponsor #1: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies This episode is brought to you by the . One of the questions I hear often is what are the best ways to further your training as a worship...
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Discipleship, Ego, & Pursuing the Presence of God in Your Local Church with John Wilds
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Topics Covered: Coffee snobbery John's favorite US (and international) coffee shops How to extend your vocal range Caring for the person, not the just the gifting The importance of staying rooted in a local church The dangers of ego and self centeredness in ministry Sonship Time restraints in worship Structure and flow in worship Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: (use promo code BEYOND2025) Show Sponsor: by Bob Sorge by Ryan Holiday Show Sponsor #1: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies This episode is brought to you by the . One of the questions...
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Anointing Over Gifting, Women in Worship, & Evaluating the Foundation of Our Ministries with Natalie Runion
Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast
Today’s conversation is with Natalie Runion - Natalie is a worship leader, author, speaker, and founder of the online community . She’s written two books - Raised to Stay and The House that Jesus Built, both powerful, insightful reads into the realities of local church ministry. In this conversation we talk about worship ministry tensions, aging out of ministry roles, challenges for women in ministry, the idol of green room culture, responding to church hurt, and why our obsession with church growth can get us off track. Natalie is bold, challenging, and an important voice to the church...
info_outlineToday’s conversation is with my friend Andy Cherry. Andy is a Worship Leader, former Worship Pastor, Songwriter with Capitol CMG, and touring bandmate with Brandon Lake.
Andy is mega talented and a thoughtful voice on the tensions of worship and industry. As a professional songwriter, he’s someone whose livelihood is connected to the worship industry. We have a great chat about excellence culture in the church. Has it gone too far? Why it’s uncomfortable to combine the words “worship” and “industry”. Why we need to expand the kinds of leaders we hire into Worship Pastor roles. At the heart of it all is a love for Jesus, a passion for His presence, and a desire to serve the people of God through honest art and biblical faithfulness.
Topics Covered:
- Early influential records
- The problem with our performance culture in church
- Separating concert from church
- Why we need to write about more topics
- Andy's songwriting & creative process
Resources Mentioned:
- Show Sponsor: Planning Center
- Andy Cherry
- instagram.com/andycherry
Show Sponsor: Planning Center
My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.
It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.
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