EP 258 AI, Scale, and Outcome-Over-Output Leadership (with Kirsten Schmidtke)

What does modern sales leadership look like when AI is in the mix? In this episode, host Susan Diaz and sales leadership coach Kirsten Schmidtke unpack how AI and humanity can peacefully coexist in sales, why scale starts with clarity and process (not tools), and how leaders can shift from output-obsessed hustle to outcome-focused, identity-level leadership in an AI-forward world.

Episode summary

Susan sits down with sales leadership consultant Kirsten Schmidtke to talk about AI, scale, and the “identity-level shifts” leaders need to make in modern sales.

They start at the intersection of mindset and skillset - why AI is now part of the sales skill stack, but can’t replace the human mindset, judgment, and presence required to sell well. Kirsten shares how sales organizations have moved from using AI as a basic copy/research tool to embedding LLMs in meetings, CRMs, and internal platforms, and even building their own AI features once they deeply understand their market and product.

From there, they zoom out to the trust recession, spammy AI outreach, and the difference between being AI first and AI forward. They discuss AI as a way to free people into their zone of genius (hello, The Big Leap), the historical pattern of tech disruption and new job creation, and why AI should be seen as a massive upgrade to human potential - not a replacement.

In the second half, they dig into scale and operations: why AI will only scale chaos if you don’t have clear goals, processes, and SOPs. Why many sales orgs still lack documented sales and go-to-market processes. And how documenting before automating is the hidden unlock for using AI well.

Kirsten closes with her identity-based leadership model (be → do → have), her outcome-over-output philosophy, and practical invitations for leaders who want to use AI to reduce burnout instead of fuelling hustle culture.

Key takeaways

Modern sales lives at the intersection of AI and humanity. AI is becoming part of the sales skillset, but the mindset - who you are being as a leader or seller - still drives how effectively those tools get used.

Sales orgs have evolved past AI as copy tool. Early use was mostly email drafting and light research. Now teams are:

• choosing an LLM of choice (ChatGPT, Copilot, Perplexity, etc.) and tailoring it to their sales strategy

• embedding AI in meeting tools to surface questions and summaries in real time

• building AI into internal platforms based on deep knowledge of market, product, and GTM.
  
  

We’re in a trust recession - and lazy AI is making it worse. Spray-and-pray LinkedIn DMs and generic AI pitches erode trust and make buyers more sceptical and confused. Being AI forward means intentional, human-centred use of AI, not pushing AI for its own sake.

AI should move you toward your zone of genius, not further into busywork. Borrowing from Gay Hendricks’ The Big Leap, Kirsten and Susan talk about AI as a way to strip away tasks in your zones of incompetence/competence so you can spend more time in your zone of genius - and potentially unlock higher human experiences and contribution.

Scale requires clarity and process before tools. AI isn’t a magic scale button. Without a clear what and why, it can’t help with the how. Leaders must:

• define the outcome and purpose of what they’re scaling

• decide what not to do

• document the current process (SOPs) before asking AI to automate or optimise it. Otherwise AI just scales the chaos.

Most salespeople are executors, not system builders. They’re brilliant at doing the thing - calls, meetings, negotiation - but often not trained to design processes and ops. Pairing them with ops-minded people (and AI) to document and structure their best practices is where real scale lives.

Identity-level leadership: be → do → have. Instead of “when I have the title, I’ll be a leader”, Kirsten coaches leaders to start with identity: “I am the leader of an AI-forward sales organization.” That identity shapes thinking, then actions, then results.

Shift from output to outcomes to avoid AI-fuelled burnout. If you treat AI as a way to cram more tasks into the same day, you just recreate hustle culture. Focusing on outcomes (what actually changes for customers, teams, and the business) allows you to use AI to create space - for thinking, rest, and higher-value work - instead of filling every spare minute.

Episode highlights

[00:01] Meeting Kirsten and why you can’t talk about modern sales without talking about AI.

[01:07] Mindset + skillset at the intersection of AI and humanity in sales.

[02:35] How sales orgs first used AI as a copy / research tool—and what’s changed.

[04:45] Embedding AI in meetings and tools vs building AI features in-house.

[06:11] The “spray and pray” LinkedIn problem and AI’s role in the trust recession.

[08:53] Being “AI forward” instead of “AI first.”

[10:39] Why humans remain safe: discernment, judgment, spidey senses, and taste.

[11:39] Arianna Huffington, Thrive, and using AI to free time for human development.

[13:19] The Big Leap and using AI to move into your zone of genius.

[17:01] Tech history, job loss, and why we’re in the messy middle of another big shift.

[19:34] What scale really means: more impact with less time and effort.

[20:33] Why AI can’t fix a lack of clarity—and how it can accidentally add work.

[23:32] “AI will scale the chaos” if you skip documentation and SOPs.

[25:08] Salespeople as executors, not ops designers, and the power of pairing them with systems people.

[27:47] Branding, buyer clarity, and why AI can’t replace the hard work of positioning.

[31:00] Identity-level shifts for leaders: adopting “I am…” statements.

[35:21] AI and burnout: from productivity for productivity’s sake to outcome-focused leadership.

[37:25] Newtonian vs Einstein time and rethinking how we use the time AI frees.

[39:59] “Outcome over output” as a leadership mantra in the age of AI.

[40:38] Kirsten’s invitation: a Sales Leader Power Hour to work on your mindset and identity.

If you’re leading a sales team - or are the sales team - and you’re feeling the tension between AI, scale, and leadership start here:

1. Pick one sales process and document it end-to-end.

2. Identify one step where AI could genuinely reduce effort or time.

3. Ask, “Who do I need to be as a leader of an AI-forward sales org?” and let that identity shape your next move.

Connect with Susan Diaz on LinkedIn to get a conversation started.

 

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To go deeper on mindset and identity shifts, connect with Kirsten Schmidtke on LinkedIn and book a Sales Leader Power Hour here: https://www.kirstenschmidtke.com/sales-leader-power-hour