How Can Addicts Overcome Triggers and Embrace Recovery? With Tony Castellano

In this podcast episode, Chris has on Tony Castellano and they discuss his upcoming vacation to the Bahamas and his plans to enter the real estate industry. The conversation shifts to managing triggers and the importance of patience and faith in the recovery process from addiction. Tony reflects on the tragic loss of individuals to addiction and the importance of a supportive network that respects his sobriety. 

 

Tony candidly shares his past struggles with alcohol, his experience with a 12-step program, and the significance of discipline in personal growth. The episode also touches on the societal normalization of drinking, the medical use of cannabis, and the challenges of peer pressure. Tony and the unidentified speaker emphasize the need for self-compassion and the positive effects of seeking help in recovery.

 

Follow Chris HERE! IG - @ChrisTarta 

 

 

Chris (00:00:10) - How are you doing?

**Chris ** (00:00:12) - Two weeks. Um. I've been really, really good, you know, getting ready for this trip. And you're going on vacation, just so everybody knows, you know, recovery life. I keep telling you guys, it's a it's an unbelievable thing. Narcotics anonymous says, uh, giving me one promise and many gifts. And, you know, I'm going on another vacation, going to the Bahamas, and it's going to be good. You know, work is good, work is busy. And, you know, my next venture obviously is is after this when I come back is to go get real estate done, you know, get my license, go, go to go to school. I need to get a side hustle. So what do we do? That's exciting man, I can't wait. I know we spoke about it, man. Need help with, uh, real estate? You can be able to call Tony in about a month, probably get his license done and be ready to go.

**Chris ** (00:00:54) - Yep. Um, I think that's really exciting, man. And like you just said, you know, I think we spoke about this off camera last time, but, you know, going to Bahamas was a far fetched idea for you a couple of years ago, man. And I, and I understand that couldn't go to the Jersey shore. Yeah. For a day. That's it. Literally for a day I couldn't go. I'm scared. The anxiety went overtake you. You wouldn't want to leave. You wouldn't want to go anywhere. I'd make myself get sick. Yeah. You know, um, it's crazy real quick, you know, health is wealth. Everybody. This right here. Juices will natural Carlos's bagel shop in Hawthorn. They make them. They'll juice them fresh for you. You will not be disappointed. Carlos is awesome. I grew up a house away from Carlos. It was called Andy's then, and she did. I've been to Carlos a bunch and they really kind of upped their game there, so that's that's awesome.

**Chris ** (00:01:48) - So yeah, they did support local. Yes. So what you got to do what you're doing and um, forgive me, I'm trying to figure out how to share this to my, uh, to my other page here, but let's see here. Um. All right, so we when I posted yesterday about if anybody had questions for us, the first one that came up was from Stephen Copp. I don't know if he's on yet or if he's here, but he wanted to talk about triggers, which I think is a big thing for an addict, you know, and he specifically said not people's people, places and things triggers. Other than that, um, we can touch on that, but I think we can touch on all of it first, because as you're going through your day, I know for me, um, I get pissed off, I get angry. Today I woke up with a bad mindset, and for about 30 minutes I had a had to meditate and to get myself out of it.

**Chris ** (00:02:38) - I read a little bit. I got down to being a little bit more present, realize that there's opportunities everywhere, and got my head in there. But I don't know, you know, I just woke up that way today and lack mindset and that happens to me a lot. It always has. But you got to fight your way through it. But like you said, you showed up here, parking lot was full. Yeah. You know, I, I, we, we, we have this thing, you know, this saying don't have any expectations because you're going to set yourself up for failure. So I've been here a few times and the parking lots pretty dead at this time. And I pull in today and it's loaded packed. And I'm like, damn, I can't park. And obviously I get a little road rage for a second, right? But obviously it's something I can't control. It's no big deal. Is it that big of a trigger? No. But is it considered a trigger? Yeah, 110%.

**Chris ** (00:03:25) - And what do you do? Um, what do I do? I have to I have to think about what? My sponsor. And what my fiancé would tell me. I don't own the parking lot. I don't own the road. I can't, you know, like, whatever it is, what it is parked farther down and take the walk. Because if not, I'll sit and wait and I'll just. I'll stewing it. I didn't like it. Like like an idiot. Right myself and let my mind run. And the crazy thing is, it's a fucking 32nd walk. I have less than maybe three seconds from where I parked last night. That's that gut. That's that natural reaction that we get, where it's that. That fucking mentality or that like, like a like a baby. Almost like it didn't go my way and I want to have a tantrum, you know. Well, we're we're coming from where we come from. We've became real self-entitled. Yeah, exactly. Which is huge problem.

**Chris ** (00:04:19) - What do you. Well, listen, I know you were spoiled like I was. Yeah. So self entitlement is something that was basically bred for us. It was it was you know, we were we were given that for some reason. And again I don't blame anybody. They did what they thought was right. We all do that. But it made us something different. Yeah. You know it. They didn't know that we were going to have this little disease inside of us. Nobody knew until it showed its face. So when our disease took Ahold of that, it went crazy. Right? So self entitlement, you know, selfishness, self-centeredness all about me is fucking huge. Yep. And the ungrateful one. That's one of the things that disease got me out of. It's thinking that way. Yeah. You know, and like you said before we went live and, um, you know, you get that point where it's like you think about me, me, me, me, me, but you don't understand.

**Chris ** (00:05:18) - Actually giving gets you more, way more. The more you give, the more you, the more you actually receive 100%. Not only with this message. I applied in business, I applied, I tried to apply it in life. It gets that's even tougher, you know, to, to to to have that in your personal life and your personal relationships to keep continue giving and giving and giving. But it works. It's that level of reciprocation. When you give out, you get yes. And when it's positivity and when it's a good energy, you can walk in and change the energy in the whole room. But we have to remember we don't get it on our time. Uh, patience, right? Yes. This is the thing, you know, everybody wants to believe and have faith in the you know, I'll I'll receive again. The problem is, is we don't receive on our time, right. It doesn't work that way. It's received when whatever you want to call it. God, the universe seems fit for us to have.

**Chris ** (00:06:16) - What we're supposed to get from it. That that brings faith in, which is hard for a lot of people to understand. It was hard for me to understand for a long time, because faith is something that you don't know is real, but you believe it anyway. You know, that's the easiest way I could explain it. And to have faith. It's it's natural to doubt it. It's natural to not understand that this is not real. This isn't going to happen. You know what? If it doesn't, this isn't that. And to have that faith that you know and you're completely confident that it's going to exist, you just don't know when and you're willing to wait for it. That's the test. Yeah. I mean, the test is, is is a tough one. You know, we look at things, we look at life. There's stuff that has happened to all sort of things that we've put ourselves through. And we always are like, wow, bro, God's tested me. You know? That's what we saw.

**Chris ** (00:07:06) - Why are you doing this to me? Doesn't test us, right? Tests our faith. How faithful are we going to be and believe that it's going to pass? The feeling is going to pass the trigger aggravation is going to pass. Um, that want for what we want at that moment will pass because we will sit back. Like you said this morning, you sat back, you meditated for a moment, you got your head right. And we realize what I want is not really always what I need at that moment. Right. You know, and and it's tough because again, coming from a using background, we want what we want. You know, I'm going to call the dealer a hundred thousand times until he picks up the phone. Right. I can't call CVS Walgreens for my prescription until they tell me it's ready. How many times am I going to call? It's a business. They've got thousands and thousands and thousands of other customers that they're helping. They're not. I'm not the only customer you think you are.

**Chris ** (00:08:05) - You feel like it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we think we are. I can remember waiting for a prescriptions that I got pissed off, bro. Pissed off, you know, waiting and waiting and waiting. You know, I had to be somewhere. I'm like, how could this not be, you know, throwing fits and, you know. Multiple different pharmacies. And, you know, it's a little different for shopping. It was ugly hopping and shopping. Yeah. And that's what it is that immediate gratification. I want it I want it now. And that's that's the end of the story. I'm going to figure out a way to get it. Why my body for instant gratification. Went berserk the moment that you couldn't, um, shop between multiple pharmacies the moment they put the house. Yeah, man. When the moment they put the hologram on, on the prescription is when my brain went on fire. Because I can only get one prescription from one place. And you have to wait the 30 fucking days.

**Chris ** (00:09:05) - Yeah. Now, at that moment. You know, it's crazy. I'm going to tell you why. It's crazy because, yes, it was a good thing, but it was also a bad thing because that at that moment turned a lot of people to go something like heroin. Yeah. It became easier to get cheaper, to get faster, to get faster to get and, uh, you know, people die from that. Oh, look at it now, man. Look at the fact. No problem. Now, I got a I got a young kid that that just passed away. And my Wednesday meeting, uh, we found out about it last Wednesday. Young kid, 2728. You know, really good dude bro. Little wacky. You know, uh, we keep our anonymity. I don't need to name names. Little wacky, though, but a good kid, good heart. You know, like something sat inside me. Something resonated from when we had talks, you know? And he took my number.

**Chris ** (00:09:54) - You know, I put it on the list, and. And he would call me on a regular basis, you know, and I would always give him suggestion and I would give him suggestion and I would give him suggestion and people, places and things all the time. Okay. This is what took him down. And it's okay because there's nothing you should do about it now. But. I told him, if you don't make this change, whatever the changes. You're not going to make it. You know, he ended up overdosing and he ended up being on life support for a few days. And then they had to pull the plug and it. And when I heard it, I was shocked for a moment. And then I was hurt. Like I kept telling my girl bro for like two, three days. I was like, this one fucking hurt me. But I was like, I actually had something inside. That I liked about him. It was just something that I saw. When you saw the demise, too.

**Chris ** (00:10:45) - Yeah, man, it probably hurt more because you were right. Uh, you know, I hate to say it that way. I don't I don't want to say that I'm right. I don't want to take it like that. I want to say that the readings that I read from Anna, that we end up in jails, institutions, or death was right. In that moment, right? You know, and it's crazy, bro. Young kid with his life ahead of him and. God. God. And that's what this disease does. That's what it wants. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Chases you, man. Yeah. Um. The guy that got me really got in my mind. Really put me. That last push over. Died 8 or 9 months ago. Wow. Not maybe ten months ago. He was sober for a long time, and he kind of watched me get sober from the outside. And he always was supportive. And, uh, he's the one that got me to actually take the last step and commit to full sobriety, because, again, I said I was going to be sober except for the weed, you know? Yeah, sure.

**Chris ** (00:11:50) - So, yeah, that's a lot of people's move. Right? But, um, you know. Yeah. He had a he. He had a nasty divorce. Uh, I don't want to say too much. So people don't know who he is? No, no. Sure. Like. And then he went through some other troubles, and he got remarried, but he fell back into the game. He was gone. Yeah, he got married and he died like. Well, he was gone because like they say you, you pick up right where you left off. Yeah. And that's dangerous now. Now it is. Yeah. And it doesn't matter, you know. Now now it is. You know, it's it's triggers or you know, let's go back to triggers for for Steve. Yeah. You know, triggers are everywhere. You know, if I get up in the morning and. I can't get to the gym on time. I'm triggered because I broke my fucking routine. And the crazy part is, is that I have to really realize it's life on life's terms.

**Chris ** (00:12:40) - And sometimes it's going to happen. You know, I can breathe a little easier if, like, I tweak my back and I can't go. It's one thing, you know, I get a little aggravated or whatever, but whatever. But if I can't make it for some reason or like, you know, um, when I used to do pool tables with my cousins, 18 pool tables, Billy love you remember he used to post that all the time. I didn't know what you were doing with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, my cousin Billy's got a pool table, a pool table company, uh, 18 pool tables. They're out of Bergen County. They do everywhere in New York, new Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland. They don't give a fuck. He'll go anywhere. Dude. It's crazy. So, you know, you have a pool table, and this guy over here is trying to buy it, so he'll call. You'll negotiate the price, he'll call us, we'll go, come to you, dismantle it.

**Chris ** (00:13:18) - Boom. Bring it over there. We put it back together. You want Neufeld? Whatever. We'll do it, you know. So I remember every day we'd have to go to Long Island. And me and my cousin sound like, you know, he likes to leave early, get over the bridge early, and I wouldn't be able to go to the gym that day, and I'd be fucking eating it. Yeah, because, you know, and it's crazy because we would go get the job done, do another one on the way back, and I'd still be home by like one sometimes. Yeah. You got the whole day and I would still be able to go to the gym, but because I couldn't do my routine my way, it would fucking trigger me, bro. And I would have, like, a shit push the whole drive until finally, like, the sun would be coming up and we'd be on that long stretch. What is that 27 going to like Montauk area? And yeah, I think it's like a one road in, one road out fucking two lanes.

**Chris ** (00:14:00) - It sucks. But the sun would be coming up and then. I'd start feeling different. I'd start feeling better. I'd start seeing light. I'd start, you know. My cousin Sal always loves listening to 95.5. It's a Christian station, which I have no problem with, right? You know, when certain songs would come in and it was just like your meditation, you know, just that. Sit back for a minute and just say bad. This ain't so bad. It ain't so bad, right? You know? Right. We're over thinkers a lot. That's that's our that that's this is going to be everyone's trigger. I don't care what nobody says. We are our biggest trigger. Just our mind running and projecting what's going to happen when we have no fucking clue what's going to happen, right? It's anxiety, right? I mean, it's a sense of anxiety. It's about worrying about the future when you know, you can only control what you can control your thoughts, yourself, your thoughts, your actions, your intentions.

**Chris ** (00:14:57) - And that's the end of the story. Like, um, you know, um, trying to trying to grasp that as a problem. I mean, I had my, my mother was she lost jobs because of anxiety. I watched her suffer for years, man. And she was she was crippled by it. And she used, you know, the doctors prescribed it, you know, and so it seemed legit. But, yeah, you know, you think you think it's the right thing. You think it's okay. She was a drinker, but anxiety and depression, those things took her out. Um, you know, and to get a it's challenging to get control of that. But I think everybody has it to a sense, you know, like we all have. I think we all have it to a sense. I just feel we all deal with it differently. Some people can, some people can't. Some people can't stop the, the, the, the mind rush. Some people can't stop the race of the brain, you know? Um.

**Chris ** (00:15:49) - I'm not a I'm medicated for so long for what I thought was recreation. But I realized was that, yeah, I was masking everything, you know, masking who I thought I was, who I everything. So, you know, I'm not a big fan of the medication portion of it, but listen, if somebody truly feels they need it. Hey, who am I to fucking judge, right? I'm nobody's. I feel the same way, though. I mean, those things will take you out. Those things. The doctor prescribes them. And you get. You become addicted. Yes. You know, you become addicted and it does. It's not a helpful thing in the end, you know? I mean, I guess for some people they manage it or they do better with it, but it's just a symptom. Solution. It's not a problem. Solution? Well, this is the thing, the problem solution. So it's funny because my girl is going to laugh right now. I love you, Jack, but she's going to laugh at me right now because I started na after doing church and I lived the steps, right? I lived the steps.

**Chris ** (00:16:49) - I read the Bible like all the steps that you do to 12 steps. It's a step ladder to God. They say he got closer. I've been living these things so I would always be like, I don't need to work these, I live these. I read a book that fucking 2500 years old, 3000 years old, right? And you know, but obviously my triggers set me. Sometimes I say shit, do shit, freak out, whatever the case is. So if I want to be a better person, I need to get to the problem, right? 100%. I can't medicate, I can't just read that book and keep myself closed. If I'm going to be in an open, honest and willing program. Right? So I've had it in a sponsor because I just really, really relate to this. Dude, I love you, Pete Z. Um, pizza. You gotta come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're gonna get pizza up here 100%. You guys are gonna love him.

**Chris ** (00:17:35) - I'm telling you, he's straight out of Goodfellas. It's unbelievable. Well, you know, I called him. He said, hell yeah. Yeah. I said, Pete, listen, I love you, bro. I said, I think it's I think it's time for me to start working steps. You know, start reading them. Start doing it. You know, I think I need to become a better person, you know? And he was like, oh my God, I'd be honored. Whatever. So, you know, I did my first step the other day. He loved it. He, you know, we did it. It was great. It was awesome. And we again have breakfast at Carlos, which is so funny. But these steps, these steps are going to help me with the true problem. You know, delving in 100%. That's what they're built for, you know? And it's crazy because people say they don't do them just one time. They keep doing it because as life goes and we grow, we have to keep digging and digging and digging, you know, like the onion, right? You know, you have to keep peeling to get to that root.

**Chris ** (00:18:24) - It takes you to a spot where you realize something. You're like, oh, man, now there's this to face, that obstacle to face. And I think that's the thing about recovery and sobriety or any type of personal development, whether it's not even recovery, is that you uncover reasons for certain behavior and then you're like, all right, I have to take that now. And you're like, all right. If you if you're still on that quest to become better, you find another thing and you find another thing, it'll never end. Death is inevitable, right? Right. So everybody's family's getting older. You had to deal with yours a lot. Younger. Yeah, obviously. What did you do? You got high. That was my. That was my way out. That was my cope. Right? Yeah. Okay, so I go to these rooms, I talk to these people, I listen to these people, and I talk about shit purposely so they can tell me how they did it and stay fucking clean.

**Chris ** (00:19:13) - You know, so I don't have to run, so I don't have to pick up my first thought. And that trigger, right sets in. I run for it. I cause when I run for brother, you got to run. Who? Ain't nobody fucking stopping, you know I'll sniff my girl's BMW. It'll be gone. She'll fucking hate me, you know, like it's the truth. Like I have to be self awareness and honest about this. So I have to figure out a better way. There is a better way, you know? That's the thing. There is a better one. Yes. Clarity and tension, honesty and all these things that you hide from. Yes. You know, I know that, um, I couldn't look in a mirror at myself when I was, when I was getting high or even before that. You know, it's a self-esteem thing. It's it's you look in the mirror, you're like, man, you know the truth. You see the truth then and you're like, fuck, dude.

**Chris ** (00:20:00) - In the beginning of Act of Addiction, before it became unmanageable. Yeah, I was looking in the mirror. Why? Because the narcissism sets in. So when a narcissism sets in, it's really, really strong. You know? Like you love who you see. Like you're trying to, like, what were the cases? Girls work. Uh, however you're trying to fucking ski, right? Whatever way. But then went on. The man went on manageability sense. And the insidious portion of the disease starts to set in. You know, I said this this morning, I said this this morning, and I said it yesterday. You know, they called it cunning, baffling and insidious. The insidious part of it is, is. You don't like looking at yourself, but your disease is like, come on, bro, it's okay, let's go get. All right. Okay. To go get hockey. It's okay. Do this to get high, you have to do what you have to do to not be sick.

**Chris ** (00:20:55) - So you do whatever it is, right or wrong, it's all okay. Next thing you know, you come back, you get it. You use. And the insidious part of the disease now looks at you in the mirror and says, you are such a fucking piece of shit. You just go for that money so you can get fucking high. Whoa! You just told me to go get high, and I could. That's why I can't look at myself when I'm in crazy, unmanageable addiction. It's really that ugly. You become that ugly of a person to yourself. You lie to yourself and the truth shows up, and you lie to yourself to avoid that truth. And it never ends again. Now you're down the rabbit hole. Yeah. You're hanging out with Alice in Wonderland. You're ignoring the real. The real feelings was that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's crazy because, you know. I love that little. You know, when I first got into those rooms, I was like these fucking saying that these losers have, you know, but being almost four years clean now, I enjoy them.

**Chris ** (00:21:51) - You know, the good thing about recovery in an A is you get your feelings back, right? The fucking bad thing about recovery. And the thing is, you get your fucking feelings back. Your feelings will be a huge trigger. Yeah. If you if you associate with those old feelings, you know or. No, actually, those are the feelings that were there the whole time. Yes. We just didn't know how to cope. Exactly. You can't manage it. That's the problem. You can't manage it and you need to avoid it. Yes. Well, we we we we learn to avoid it. Um. But we have to learn how to face it. You got to face the trigger, too. You got to learn how to how to how to let shit slide, which I fall short daily for it. I do, and I have to admit that, but at least I know it. And I will try. I will have to try as much as I can. Right.

**Chris ** (00:22:42) - That's the thing. You'll probably get better every day. You know, I mean, even if it's a thumbnails worth, it's still something. Progress is progress. And admitting it and knowing it and just just accepting that you're sure your shortcomings and your shortfalls, that's a huge part of it. Because you're getting, uh, you're getting real with yourself, and you're saying, no, man, like this is where you fall short, and then you got to talk it and speak it out and understand it, and then you can accept it and try to learn from it some level. Getting another saying that they use I love. You got to get comfortable being uncomfortable the moment you get comfortable. Being uncomfortable is the moment that we truly lose all insecurity, and at that moment is when we can truly just say whatever and be open and honest and it not even affect us, right? You know, and it's a huge, huge power to take back from addiction. It's a huge power to take back from, you know, from the world in the sense of security.

**Chris ** (00:23:42) - I don't care what nobody thinks, right? I don't care if I'm a little overweight, which I do, and I work on it. But I mean, it's not that I care, I just, I if you feel a way about it, we feel a certain way in clothes and it's okay. But to get that power back is huge, right? Take so long to get. People are so scared to do what you have to do to get it. And it's really not that hard to get. It's just the steps you have to take, the work you got to put in for yourself to get the power back. I think that's compounded effort, man. If you're doing a little bit every day and you're making a disciplined schedule and you actually stick to it day after day after day, no matter if it's a ten minute walk and then the ten minutes of reading and then ten minutes of meditation, you know, 30 minutes a day of the same shit, that same discipline. But you're eating the promises.

**Chris ** (00:24:25) - Yeah. Eating cleaner. Eating. Yeah. Eating cleaner. Uh, drinking water instead of soda. Uh, whatever the case is, you know, one less piece of bread. You know, one less steak in the week instead of four days a week. You know, three, two people just don't do it. People. Yeah, it's crazy, but you know what? We talk about it like it's easy. You know what I mean? For, for for 30 years of my life, none of that shit was easy, you know? And and I was okay with failing daily at it. I was okay every day. I was like, yeah, so tomorrow will be better than tomorrow. Wouldn't be better. And, uh, it's the right man next week, you know? Yeah. The rest of my life. Well that that's that mean that I see it's either one day I'll get clean, one day I'll die. One day I'll go to the gym or it's fucking day one, right? We know he's never here.

**Chris ** (00:25:11) - And when the pain is great enough, they say right? When the pain is great enough will make the change. Whatever it is in life, we'll make the change right? The question is, is why in the hell do we have to allow the pain to become so great? Why am I going to be forced to have my fucking doctor? Say your aunt, bro. You're diabetic. Borderline. Now you have to do this. It's the pressure, man. You wait for the pressure. It's unfortunate. Right? Unbelievable, right. Unbelievable. Procrastination. Um. Huge, huge character defect. Used to be for a long time. For a lot of things. You know, for me, um, justifications, like, you know, making a justification. I mean, I still do it all the time now. I'm like, listen, my friends like to make fun of me all the time at the deli, bro. And I don't care because it's who I am, and I accept what they say.

**Chris ** (00:26:06) - Well, that's big too, is I do that I have no, I have no choice. I have no choice but to accept what they say because they're not saying it out of ill will. My disease will want to tell me to tell them literally go fuck themselves, because my disease doesn't want to hear the truth. But. My friends in all reality are telling me this out of straight love. Like, bro, chill, you know, and we have to. We have to learn how to accept that and embrace that. You know, um, nobody's always coming at you, you know, when somebody's being malicious and you know, when somebody's not right. You know what I mean? Yeah, you could feel that. You know, I go to, I go to I go to dinner with these guys and real friends. We go to dinner, we happen to go to, uh, to La cabeza. Uh, bring your own. And nobody says he tome. It's been almost four years, but I'll have a drink.

**Chris ** (00:27:03) - Yeah, my real friends. Yeah. Some of them don't even drink. Some of them sit across from me and won't drink, because maybe they want to go to the gym the next day or whatever the case is. But nobody's ever said, Tony. Here, have a drink. No, it's been four years. Come on. They won't. So I know guys like that or not saying shit and bringing it to my attention to be a dick, right? They're truly saying that at a at a betterment for me. And care when we become secure is when we can listen to that. And whether it takes a day or two for yeah, it resonates. We identify, we put it into application, we apply it to the life. That's the other thing is actually executing on shit like that. Applications. You sure anybody can say yes. Anybody can say I understand. Anybody can say no. You're right, no you're right. And not do it. Yeah. I've done it a million times.

**Chris ** (00:27:55) - It's the same thing. I go out and eat my. I mean, I mean, friends of mine out. We'll go. We'll go wherever the brick house, whatever. I'll meet them in that. That fucking cancer cigar room in the basement. And, um, they're all drinking. Nobody asked me nothing. I get a club soda, I put my money in and split it just like they do. And at the end of the story, you know, they say, no, don't worry about it. Whatever. But like. They just know. And I'm no different. I'm no, I'm not unfollow. I'm not looking around. I don't even feel like how the ordinary no I don't. Oh well, this is the crazy thing about alcohol right. Is I think we spoke about it last time. It's the only thing you got to explain why you don't do it. Oh, yeah. You go out for lunch, you go out for business lunch, this and that as. It's just it's so normal or it's so normalized.

**Chris ** (00:28:38) - Yeah. In the world, you don't drink. Why don't you. Why don't you drink? What? Why why do you think I don't drink? Not many people don't drink unless they had a problem with it. You know, more and more people are stopping drinking just out of this, just out of society and realizing that it's probably not that good. Last time I really, truly drank like that, I ended up in handcuffs. Yeah. Oh, drinking was the worst for me, dude. Literally in handcuffs. Yeah, I'll. It was. I was so insanely belligerent. The cop wanted my ID, I didn't do nothing wrong. And I told them, I'm not giving you my ID. I didn't do anything wrong. I just because I just wanted to be belligerent. And they ended up, you know, we started I started freaking out like crazy. And he ended up thanking me for, for for being drunk in public. Right. Which is fine. He sat for the night.

**Chris ** (00:29:22) - See you later. Have a nice day. But it's just the fact that. Are you kidding me right now? It's like. That's what I do. I choose not to drink, right. It won't lead me to go to my drug of choice. Which is fine, right? But it will lead me to change, to be somebody else. Oh, yeah, for sure, man. So there's no need for it. There's no need for it, you know. And the old need would be triggered by walking into a place. That the music's going. Midland brewhouse, you know, everybody's eating dinner. You know, um, the old me would be triggered by. By what I see and hear to maybe want to have a drink. You know what I've worked on that I don't. I don't need that. I don't have that. I don't feel that any longer. It's amazing. Right? I can sit down and have a have a meal, have great laughs and walk out the door.

**Chris ** (00:30:16) - I will. Keep an eye out, though. For the drinker. That's acting a little like I used to act. Uh, but you could pick them out, like, no problem. Oh, yeah. You seen an hour before? They're too drunk. And. Yeah, you can pick it out. I have to, I have to I had to leave a place early. My my my my my my my beautiful partner in crime was like, okay, time to go. She was like, let's go. He came off the elevator, he came off and we were out at somebody's dinner. Birthday dinner. He comes off the elevator and he was loud and rowdy, and she was sitting there and as he walked by, he kind of like, pointed and stretched his arm out and it came like nearer. And I was like. And I looked and I didn't say no and whatever. And and as the night went on, I was just focused on him and I was listening. And he was progressively getting worse and louder and drunker and louder and, and I was watching him and all I kept thinking of was like, Holy shit, that's fucking me.

**Chris ** (00:31:10) - I was just going to say, is that, is that you? That's because that's how I was. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm watching him. And now he's making his way to table to table and talking to people. And I see him go to the table behind us, and I see him talking to them and the girl, etc., and her partner, the guy who husband, boyfriend, she's like, who the fuck is that? And I looked and I said, if he comes here and says one word, I said, you have no idea what's going to happen. She stood up and she goes, time to go. But I need her to do that because I will sit there and wait purposely for that to happen, which I don't want to happen. So because I have, I've been blessed with a partner that's strong where I'm weak and vice versa. She's like, I'm time to go, gotta go guys. Have a nice day. Love you. Yeah, 100% man.

**Chris ** (00:31:54) - It's and having that support there somebody that could recognize that shit in you and for you to be able to hear it. There's a lot of times you don't want to hear it. Yeah. Well, because our first thought is not our it's not our fault for who we were, but if we don't talk about it, we will act on it. Right? So that's why I said what I said. And she said, oh, really? Let's go nice and easy. Yeah. We don't need those problems. No, not at all. That's a trigger. The place, knowing that you know you're going to. I'm going to go somewhere where they're way too rowdy. And not that you can't have a good meal. It's just, you know, listen, they're drinking and. You know, their mood and mind altered. They're not thinking. They don't see how clear it is like we do. I love that shit, man. I love pointing shit out to my wife usually. Or other people, like, watch this guy.

**Chris ** (00:32:52) - Oh, yeah. Look at that guy. Yeah, look at this right here. You've been in the bathroom every 20 minutes for for the last two hours. So that was me. Yeah, that was me, ladies and gentlemen. That was me. You know, like, you know, and I guess you really call them the normals or whatever you want to call them, but, like, they don't even a lot of people don't recognize that. No, they don't see it the way I, I mean, look, everywhere I go, I'll go to the city with my family. People still ask me, you need something you want. Like they they could pick me off the same way they know, like, yeah. And that and my wife's like, was it ever going to stop? I said, it's never going to start going to stop. It's never going to stop, man. There's an energy. There's a feeling. Well I drive through Patterson, man. I drive through Patterson today, people, you know, how about this? This is the crazy thing.

**Chris ** (00:33:32) - I say this a lot, too. Um. People, places and things. Triggers, right? Just because I'm clean. You know I'm not going to drive. I'll go through Patterson for a certain specific reason. I go. If I have to go to the sober house, I'll go. If I've got to go to the good Shepherd mission, I'll go. Um, once in a while, I want to have a after a meeting. I feel like having fucking chicken rings and French fries from White Castle. So I'll go with my girl. You know, we've managed to do that, and we'll go through. I'll go check, but. Oh, yeah. Checkers do check or fine. I'll fucking go to, like, fucking kidding me right now. But I'm clean now, dude. I'm not going to drive by the the cop spots I used to go to and be like, yo, what's good bro? Look how clean I am. But then motherfuckers weren't giving me drugs when I was dope sick.

**Chris ** (00:34:18) - You think I'm gonna fucking want them to give me free drugs now to get me back? Like people, places and things like I don't need to pass by. And if I'm with my girl, it's one thing. If I'm with my brother, you know, we're driving through. My cousin still lives here. Once in a while, I try to drive through. I try to see if he's outside, try to have a little trouble. I try to have a little convo with him and tell him I love you. You know you don't go, but you know, I listen. I'm not going to push it now. Nobody. So we're we're we're fucking adults here. But I'm not going to, you know, for a purpose. That's it. And you're right. They can't call like crazy broad daylight. It's fucking 10:00 in the morning. 10:00 at night. It don't matter. Yo, man, I'm like, bro. They don't. You know it. They I don't know. Is it because I'm not going to say it's always because we're white, obviously.

**Chris ** (00:35:03) - But they have a sense of knowing by the way we walk and the way we move, that we've moved through these streets before and have. It's. It's a it's a it's a breed like you. Like you. It's the pack. Like, you know, you know each other. Yes. You know, you know each other. And it's wild because. They want nothing more to see you again than they want. They want nothing more to see you running down the street and, you know, looking for them. That's that's their goal. That's that's another customer. We stay faithful. We don't pay attention. Right. You know, we we we stay faithful to our recovery. We chase our recovery like we chased our drugs. My boy Bart love you Bart. Shout out kid. He will tell you how crazy it is. We'll bring him as a guest one day. My man was taking mass transit to and from work. Clean living in a sober house, just clean months. He looks down.

**Chris ** (00:35:58) - There's a fucking bundle of dope right next to him. He's like, what the fuck? Yeah, well, he's like, when I was getting high, this was never happening. My man. Kick that shit off to the side. You tell me temptation ain't tough. Right next to him on the floor. Kicked it off to the side. Gift, dude, dude. Smoking weed, vapes and all sorts of shit on the bus. And he's like and weaves actually, his true first drug choice. Yeah, he'll tell you, you know what I mean. And that will lead him the other way. But he's like, damn, bro, now it's all legal and shit, but he knows all legal shit or not, he knows where it'll send him. What do you think about that? Well, we'd be in legal.

Speaker 3 (00:36:32) - Uh.

**Chris ** (00:36:33) - Truthful answer. I think it's the worst decision our country has ever made. I'm going to tell you the truth. And and you know. And listen, you know me.

**Chris ** (00:36:41) - We used to smoke a lot of me. You, my kids, mother Madrid. Like, you know, we smoked a lot of pot, bro. Um, I think it's the worst decision they ever made. They did it for a business decision. And I feel like. You're opening. You're opening the door. I'm not. You know, a lot of people want to say that we used a gateway drug, right? Okay. That's fine. If you guys want to say that, say that I feel that we were born a certain way and we were born. No. You know, but. You're going to make it that much easier for people to find out. That they have that disease in them. You know, you could hold somebody off for a while. You know, somebody doesn't smoke weed until they're 30, right? You know, or all they did is drink at 21. Yeah. Maybe they would have stopped it because, you know, they flunked out of school and they stopped drinking or something.

**Chris ** (00:37:35) - You know what I mean? Right. But. You letting fucking a dispensary open up and you can just go into with a medical card or not even. No no no no. Just go buy weed, bro. You seen those lines? Oh, the line for fucking ascend is ridiculous. It's crazy. They were out there fucking with boxes of donuts for people. How is the fuck am I looking at, bro? Here, come by our fucking legal weed here. We're going to give you a dollar. You're giving me a donut so I can smoke weed and fucking munch more? Yeah, bro. How great of an idea. Yeah, it's like they had a lemonade stand at the at the corner and said, while you're waiting for that. It's wild. I mean, I don't think it's a good decision. Who am I? What do I know? I mean, I tortured myself for fucking 12 years. Yeah. What do I know? Right? I just know where I was, and I know what I see, and I don't foresee it as a good thing.

**Chris ** (00:38:28) - I foresee you making it needed medically. You know, I know it, dude. It works medically for things. Yeah, I know a guy I was in the county with and his son had autism, and they used to actually extract the oil out of the weed and cook his son's food in it. And he was very calm because he wasn't so self beating. Yeah. Medically sure. Yeah. Literally true. Medically. Oh, I got it. I got a guy that I'm going to have on, uh, Jordan. We call him Jaybird, and he's. He's got quite a story, and he has a, he has a documentary on it, and he opened a cannabis or CBD company, Cross Country Wellness, and, um. That he started because of a like a kind of a tragedy in his family, people addicted to opiates. And he'll tell the story. I don't want to tell the story, but yeah, okay. You know, so I know that it has effects on them.

**Chris ** (00:39:23) - It's not good for the addict for sure. Um, but it does have positive things. I do think it's too liberal right now. Like I walked through the city. When I go to the city, it's not that often, especially with the family. And my kids are like, what's that everywhere? Yeah, what's everywhere is this and why is this okay? And like, you don't even smell cigarettes anymore. You know, you can't even, you know, you know, you don't even people don't even smoke cigarettes, but they walk around smoking weed and it's completely legal. So more power to them, their choice. I got to deal with it on my terms. Right. That's how it is. Yeah. Of course. Well, we have to accept it again. Powerless over it. Um, I mean, is it the most natural? Yeah, of course. I mean, it just grows. All you do is you try it and you try it and that's it. It's not like cocaine or anything else where you have to do work to get to it, you know what I mean? But, you know, again, we're a fucking overeating society, dude.

**Chris ** (00:40:14) - Do you not think we're going to be an overweight smoking society and an over drinking society? And look, the alcohol is legal, man. It's. I think that was the worst night of them all. Chris, I think it's the I think it's the biggest cause for domestic violence. I think something like that. I don't know if you look it up, but I believe it, that it will rot you from the inside out. Take a bite at the store. Yeah. You can walk down a block and get it. Pretty crazy. The wild thing is to when you go around in different neighborhoods, you have to. Patterson is a liquor store, 2 or 3 on every block, on every block, every block, man and white cop. I think there was or two. Hawthorne's got what? Uh, 2 or 3. They got three. That's it? Yeah. You go to the hood. They're everywhere. Everywhere.

Speaker 4 (00:41:06) - Yeah.

**Chris ** (00:41:07) - I mean, listen. At the end of the day.

**Chris ** (00:41:11) - Free will. Right? Yeah. Free will. Sometimes our free will is misguided. Because we were misinformed by the misinformed in our life, in our life, our predecessors before us, family, uncles, whatever the case is, you know, cousins, whatever for whatever however you want to look at it. My biggest instance of peer pressure after sobriety was my grandfather. Wow, this is huge Italian. He. I explained to him I don't drink anymore. Where I was, I was on vacation with them. Why I said it's not for me. I had I had a problem with it. You know, I'm not. I'm not a drinker. No, no, no. That's bullshit. It's no problem. Have a drink with us. Have a drink. This was Easter. I'll never forget it, bro. I'm like, I don't drink, pop. I don't, I'm not drinking. Yeah, he. I almost offended him. Oh, yeah, I probably did, actually. Oh, no, you definitely did.

**Chris ** (00:42:11) - But, you know, it'll be explained to him multiple times. I have a similar story, actually. Um, I'm living in a sober house, and my grandmother, I love my grandmother, by the way. She's like, you know, my grandmother raised me, dude. Like, I love my grandmother. Um, she's like my mother as much as my mother is, you know what I mean? And she doesn't know any better. She's an immigrant. She's from the third world country at that time, and she's fucking a mountain goat, you know? So. So I'm living in a sober house, and I come to my grandmother's to eat some breakfast one day, and I bring one of the roommates with us. His name is Lou love him. He's in prison again. He couldn't keep himself clean. Whatever. Love you, kid. But. So I go, and I come to take a shower and hang out. I go to take a shower. And as I come out of the shower, bro, I smell coffee, which is great, but from the fucking bathroom, I smell Sambuca.

**Chris ** (00:43:06) - Now my grandmother is a gangster. She will fucking drink Sambuca, you know, 9 a.m. she don't care. That's the sugar and the sugar. Yeah, exactly. So my first instinct at that second was, oh, grams having a little sambuca. And I said, oh shit, losing the kitchen. I fucking run out into the kitchen and there's a cup in front of him and a cup in front of her, and I'm freaking Grammy can't drink that. And I'm like, Lou, what the fuck are you doing? I didn't even get peer pressure because she knows I will flip shit, right? She went to my friend Lou. I'm like, Lou. What the fuck are you doing? He's like, bro, you know, I can't say no. He's like, I said no. Yeah, yeah. I said, so what happened? He goes. And then she looked at me. She goes just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I said gram, he can't drink that bro.

**Chris ** (00:43:58) - And she's like why? I'm like I'm like, no, I'm a drug addict. We're in a home because we are drug addicts. Alcoholics. We can't drink, we can't do drugs. She's like, oh yeah. Like literally baffled look on her face. Oh yeah. Well, that's the thing is like I felt like. In my situation, I was like, this guy is ashamed that there's weakness in his family, you know? That's how he sees it, you know? And that's how kind of like the old fashioned people see it like that's. And it's for me, that's the Italian. It's cultural. You know, you don't show that. You don't. You don't let that feeling out, you know, or that's the. Generations before me. Thought before you can really say, no, man, I got a problem with this shit. That's the thing. See, they're misinformed and they misinformed us. Their weakness, they don't understand is their insecurity. Yeah, at the end of the day, their weakness or what they think is don't show your weakness to these people is their fucking insecurity, dude, 100%.

**Chris ** (00:45:06) - They'll never understand that what makes us strong is being able to be open. And be able to stand our ground. If you want to call it right and be honest about it. That's the thing. Yes. We got some questions. Please answer a question up. Do you ever have a drug dream? How do you feel about drug dreams? Um, I haven't had one in a while. But I have had them before. Um, my fiance has definitely had them. We talk about it all the time, but, um, how do I feel about them? I feel that we've done a lot of, you know, uh, things to ourselves, to our brains, to our bodies. And I feel a dream is just a dream. You know? It's it's not. Anything special. You know, you take it with a grain of salt. You wake up, you talk about it, don't fucking hold it in. Because if you hold it in, your dream may turn into a reservation.

**Chris ** (00:46:04) - And if it turns into a reservation and we don't talk about it, we may end up fulfilling the dream. But if we talk about the dream, get it out, laugh about it, talk about how real it felt. You know, with someone that. Hopefully he has the same issue we have because that's who's going to understand this best. Um, they'll laugh. They'll be like, oh yeah, who cares? You know what I mean? No big deal. You blow it off. You know, but jug dreams. Yeah, a lot of people have them, right? I mean, I hear a lot of people in meetings talk about them all the time. I had a dream once that I had fallen off the wagon a couple of years ago after, whatever, 13, 12 years of sobriety. And I woke up and I was like, I can't do it. Yeah, yeah, I've done it. I was scared to death. Oh, I couldn't believe it. Woke up right on the bed.

**Chris ** (00:46:49) - It's happened. What do I do? And I'm like, wait a minute. What the fuck? Yeah, I look around, I've woken her up. She's like, are you all right? I'm like, what the fuck? I'm like, Holy shit. Like I'm home, I'm in my bed. But that it felt real, real, real feels real. Well, it felt it felt real because we lived it for so long that. We still at this moment cannot believe the things we allowed that it got us to do right? Not that. I mean, we allowed ourselves to do it. Of course, we consciously made the decision to get high, but we didn't know that we were going to be doing the things that we were doing. So the things that our disease got us to do, that we are like, Holy shit, that's like fucking crazy. Oh yeah, I think so. That's why, you know, when we wake up from that drug dream, we're like, yeah, you know, like, whoa.

**Chris ** (00:47:34) - It's not me. No. Not me anymore? No. You know, I hope that answers your question, you know? But, yeah. It's crazy. That's crazy, man. It's crazy. Yeah. Man. Thanks. We got some comments today. We got some I appreciate that I figured out how to use this. Oh there we go. This thing man. Look at that. Not only does he sell real estate, ladies and gentlemen, but you don't have to look at the comments. Really, bro? We had some help today, man, I can barely. I can barely fucking read these things to tell you that, um. Uh, I forgot about. I gotta run to get my keys. We got about five minutes left, and I'm. Any any, uh, any advice you want to talk about? I mean, there's probably people out there who struggle. Or they could share this with somebody who's struggling, maybe scared to get sober or scared to make that move.

**Chris ** (00:48:17) - Don't be so hard on yourself, bro. Oh, yeah, that's a good one, man. Don't be so hard on yourself. Guilt and shame will ride us and make us beat ourselves up. But at the end of the day, it goes away. When you decide to take the first step and surrender your will. The anxiety that you brought upon yourself goes away. The guilt and shame gets real quiet. Don't get me wrong, I'm going to be for years, God willing. March 16th. Rocky, I love you and your anniversary date of your death. You know? Um. But. It will quiet itself down and it'll come back up again. But you realize that. Look how far I've come. I don't have to beat myself up about that no more. I've made amends for it. Whatever the thing is, or whoever you are or, you know, whatever. You know I can't. I can't. There's I can't fucking change it. Right? I can't beat myself up for yesterday, dude.

**Chris ** (00:49:26) - I can only look at it and get better from it. The past can be poison, man, if you dwell on it. You know, we make mistakes. Is even for, you know, people, not recovery. You know what I mean? Like it's okay. Take it as a lesson. Learn from it. Even for you. Real estate sales. You know somebody. Oh, I should have bought that fucking house, and I didn't. And now. And now. Yeah. Now I'm in something that I don't like, you know? Well, whatever. Like. No, it's okay. Shit happens for a reason. Don't beat ourselves up. It's okay. Right. We didn't do anything that bad. We didn't kill nobody. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it's okay. We don't have to beat ourselves up. Don't be so hard on yourself, right? Give yourself a break, man. And I'm telling everybody out there 110%. If you have the thought that you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, there is a way out.

**Chris ** (00:50:23) - All you got to do is ask the. I work for a company in Bergen County called the Center of Alcohol and Drug Resources. I'm in the Bergen County Jail. Every day during recovery, support for inmates coming in and leaving. You know, we've got family support there. We've got the Star program there. Like, this is what I do. Like God has blessed me to do this. There is help for anybody out there that wants this. You find the people that you help in jail, continue to look for help when they leave, or a percentage of them or some of them feel doomed, knows, uh, the ones that are doing well, they continue to look for help. They still go to meetings. One goes to church continuously. You know, his life has gotten better. I told him, keep doing the next right thing, right? Keep doing the next right thing, and everything is going to happen the way it should happen. And we will talk all the time. My client and he's like, oh, I'm stressing a little and I've got caught for this, this, this and this.

**Chris ** (00:51:18) - And I talked to him today and he's like, yo, could you believe bro? He's like, they dropped this charge. They dropped that charge. They only gave me a fine for the drug charge. Only because the judge saw all the hoops that I've been jumping through, taking the vivitrol shot through you, dealing with you as a recovery specialist. And he's giving me another chance. Like doing the next right thing is fucking huge. Take it in small steps. Small steps, you know? Have you listen one foot in front of the other. You're not getting that. You're not getting to the 10th floor from going to the first floor to the sixth floor and then the 10th floor. You got to go step by step and floor by floor. It's just that simple. One foot in front of the other. It's really just that simple. We will want to start skipping steps and run up the stairs. But me and you were going to get winded. And the guy that's walking the steps slowly is going to get there before we fall down, bro.

**Chris ** (00:52:05) - We fall down the stairs. There you go. Yeah, there you go. So the help is out there for you guys. Don't be shy. Don't be bashful. Don't be fucking scared. It's okay. Just be a little bit vulnerable. You'll be all right. That's it. You'll be all right. And other than that, that's it for today, bro. Wish Tony a happy vacation, man. He's headed to the Bahamas. You'll see. Follow him on Facebook. You'll see some beautiful pictures. Oh, yeah. Sunrises and sunsets. Yes you will. Yes you will. The hope and courage and and experience and strength. I was an addict. I thought I was doomed to die as an addict. And I no longer am an addict. An active addiction, right? I am an addict who is in recovery and living a great life of recovery. God bless you. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thanks, guys.