516: The Man Who Was Fired Five Times

The Man Who Was Fired Five Times

How Letting Go of Blame Can Transform Your Life

Hosts:
Kevin Cornelius, LMFT
Dr. David Burns

What if the biggest obstacle to your happiness isn't your depression, your anxiety, or even the difficult people around you?

What if it's the belief that everyone else needs to change first?

In this powerful episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, discuss one of David's favorite therapy stories from his recent Psychology Today article, "The Man Who Was Fired Five Times." What begins as the story of a brilliant computer programmer who can't keep a job becomes an unforgettable lesson in overcoming resistance, building meaningful relationships, and discovering the extraordinary power of humility.

This episode is packed with practical TEAM-CBT techniques, fascinating therapy demonstrations, and one of the most inspiring recovery stories you'll ever hear.

In This Episode

A Brilliant Man Who Couldn't Keep a Job

David introduces us to "Bhagwant" (a pseudonym), an exceptionally gifted computer programmer who sought treatment after being fired five times in just two years.

Although he initially came to therapy complaining of low self-esteem, David quickly noticed something much deeper.

Bhagwant believed:

• His coworkers were conspiring against him.
• His bosses failed to appreciate his intelligence.
• Other people were the source of nearly all his suffering.

Despite his obvious brilliance, his habit of blaming others had become the greatest obstacle to both his career and his happiness.

Why David Didn't Try to Help Him...At First

Instead of immediately offering therapy techniques, David did something surprising.

He told Bhagwant that perhaps they shouldn't work together.

Why?

Because therapy would require Bhagwant—not his coworkers—to do all of the changing.

Rather than arguing with Bhagwant or trying to convince him he was wrong, David used one of the most powerful TEAM-CBT methods:

Dangling the Carrot

By joining Bhagwant's resistance instead of fighting it, David completely changed the emotional dynamic.

Instead of saying:

"You're the problem."

He essentially said:

"You're right—it seems terribly unfair that you'd have to do all the work when everyone else is causing the problem."

That paradoxical response immediately dissolved Bhagwant's resistance.

Moments later, he admitted something he had hidden from David:

He hadn't merely been placed on probation.

He had already been fired—for the fifth time.

Why Specificity Matters

One of the central themes of the episode is David's insistence on working with specific moments instead of vague labels.

Rather than treating "low self-esteem" as the problem, David asks:

• What happened?
• Where were you?
• What time was it?
• What exactly were you thinking?

This "fractal" approach allows therapy to target the real thoughts creating emotional suffering instead of treating abstract diagnostic labels.

As David explains, problems can only be solved when they're connected to a real moment in time.

Recovery Begins with Practice

Once Bhagwant committed fully to treatment, he became an extraordinarily dedicated student of TEAM-CBT.

He learned to:

• Identify cognitive distortions
• Challenge negative thoughts using Externalization of Voices
• Master the Five Secrets of Effective Communication
• Replace defensiveness with curiosity and empathy

At one point, David actually had to limit Bhagwant's therapy homework because he was spending six to eight hours a day practicing.

The Job Interview That Changed Everything

Eventually Bhagwant received a job offer from a company in Florida.

David gave him one final piece of surprising advice:

Ask your new employer to agree to criticize you every single week.

Specifically, David suggested requesting regular meetings where supervisors would openly point out mistakes so Bhagwant could practice using the Five Secrets and the Disarming Technique.

The company agreed.

The results were astonishing.

Within weeks:

• He had developed excellent relationships with coworkers.
• He won Employee of the Month.
• He received multiple promotions.
• His salary doubled.

Years later, David received a Christmas card that brought tears to his eyes.

Bhagwant had become CEO of the very company that hired him.

The Disarming Technique

Much of the second half of the episode explores one of the most challenging—and most transformative—TEAM-CBT skills.

What Is Disarming?

Disarming means sincerely finding the truth in criticism, even when the criticism seems exaggerated or unfair.

David explains what he calls the Law of Opposites:

• Defending yourself often convinces others the criticism is true.
• Agreeing sincerely with whatever truth exists often causes the criticism to lose its power.

This simple paradox can dramatically transform difficult conversations.

Live Role-Playing

Kevin and David demonstrate the Disarming Technique through several live role plays.

David criticizes Kevin as being:

• Fake
• Inexperienced
• Pretending to know more than he really does

Kevin practices agreeing with the truth in the criticism instead of defending himself.

David then coaches Kevin to go even deeper—not by problem-solving or trying to improve himself immediately, but by becoming genuinely curious about the other person's experience.

Later, the roles reverse, and Kevin criticizes David for being:

• Cranky
• Impatient
• Insensitive

David demonstrates how quickly criticism melts away when someone responds with humility, openness, and genuine curiosity.

These demonstrations beautifully illustrate why the Disarming Technique is often one of the hardest TEAM-CBT skills to master—and one of the most powerful.

Why Resistance Matters

Throughout the episode, David explains that resistance is not an obstacle to therapy.

It's the doorway into effective therapy.

Rather than pushing people toward change, TEAM-CBT first helps people understand why changing feels difficult.

Once resistance melts away, motivation naturally appears.

Enlightenment and the "Death of the Self"

The conversation concludes with a reflection on one of David's favorite philosophical themes.

Drawing from Buddhist psychology, David discusses how learning to accept criticism requires what he calls "the death of the self"—letting go of pride, defensiveness, and the constant need to protect one's ego.

Rather than seeing criticism as an attack, we can learn to experience it as an opportunity for connection, growth, and deeper understanding.

Resource Mentioned

• Dr. David Burns' Psychology Today article: "The Man Who Was Fired Five Times"

Memorable Takeaways

• The biggest obstacle to change is often our resistance—not our symptoms.
• Therapy becomes far more effective when it focuses on one specific moment instead of broad labels.
• Defending yourself usually strengthens criticism; finding the truth in it often dissolves conflict.
• Humility builds stronger relationships than winning arguments.
• Learning to respond differently to criticism can transform not only your mood, but your career, your relationships, and your entire life.

Whether you're a therapist, a parent, a leader, or simply someone who wants healthier relationships, this episode offers practical tools and inspiring hope that lasting change is possible—even after years of frustration and failure.

Listener Survey

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Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling.

Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast!

Contact Information

Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [e-mail] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me.

You can reach Dr. Burns at [e-mail].

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