Narcissist vs. Abuser: When the Dynamics Mirror Each Other and does the Difference Matter? with Licensed Psychotherapist, Chelsey Brooke Cole
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
Release Date: 02/03/2026
Narcissist vs. Abuser: When the Dynamics Mirror Each Other and does the Difference Matter? with Licensed Psychotherapist, Chelsey Brooke Cole
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
When you’re in a high-conflict divorce, the behaviors often feel indistinguishable. Gaslighting. Manipulation. Control. Chaos. Emotional whiplash. It’s why so many people fixate on one question: Is my spouse a narcissist? In this episode, I’m joined by licensed psychotherapist and narcissistic abuse expert Chelsey Brooke Cole to explore a deeper truth—when the impact on you feels the same, does the label actually matter? We unpack what narcissistic abuse truly is, how it overlaps with other forms of emotional and psychological abuse, and why abusers and narcissists often behave in...
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What It’s Really Like to Grow Up Between Two Homes: A Conversation with Bella Duncan
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
What is it truly like for children growing up in divorced families? In this episode, I sit down with Bella Duncan, creator of A Kid With Two Homes, who gives us a rare and honest perspective on divorce from the child’s point of view. Now an adult, Bella reflects on her own experiences and sheds light on the challenges kids often navigate silently when moving between two households. We dive into the real, everyday experiences children face, including why birthdays and holidays can feel complicated, the pressure of loyalty conflicts, adjusting to different rules and routines, and how...
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Ditch Your New Year’s Resolution - Do This Instead for 2026
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
As we close the chapter on 2025, I want to offer you something different than the usual New Year’s resolutions. Not another list you’ll abandon by February, but a blueprint. One that gently, intentionally reshapes who you’re becoming. This year changed me. I was deeply impacted by Hal Elrod’s Miracle Morning, Mike Drinkhahn’s unwavering optimism, Gay Hendricks’ transformational work in The Big Leap, and Ryan Holiday’s timeless reminder that obstacles aren’t detours. They’re the way forward. Together, these ideas helped me make simple shifts that led to my most aligned year...
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Top Episode of the Year: Lundy Bancroft Reveals How Abusers Win in Family Court
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
🔥 Our Most-Viewed Episode of the Year! Lundy Bancroft Exposes Abuse in Family Court ⚖️🧨 As we close out this year, we’re bringing back the conversation that struck the deepest chord with our audience — the episode that sparked hundreds of messages from listeners who finally felt seen. In this powerful, eye-opening discussion, Lundy Bancroft — internationally recognized authority on narcissism, coercive control, and the family court system — reveals how abusive partners continue their dominance long after the relationship ends. With three decades of working directly with...
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5 Holiday Fears That Surface When You’re Close to Choosing Divorce with Andrea Vacca, Esq.
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
In this episode of the Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast, Karen McMahon sits down with divorce attorney Andrea Vacca, Esq. to explore the unique pressures of the holiday season when you’re considering divorce. This is the stage where uncertainty weighs heavily, information is still being gathered, and you may not be ready—or safe—to share your plans with anyone. Family gatherings, traditions, and expectations continue around you, even as you quietly wonder what the new year will bring. Karen and Andrea bring compassionate clarity to this “secret season,” discussing how to stay grounded,...
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The Hidden Trap in High-Conflict Divorce: When a Man Reacts Instead of Leads, with Holistic Health Practitioner Specializing in Integral Masculine Self-Development, Michael Holt
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
In this episode of the Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast, I’m speaking directly to the men who are walking through the intensity of high conflict divorce — the pressure, the triggers, the confusion, and the deep internal unraveling that often comes with it. Men in high conflict divorce are asked to hold an extraordinary amount: to respond instead of react, to stay grounded when provoked, and to lead even when everything around them feels uncertain. And while I coach men through these challenges every single day, I also know that some truths land more powerfully when they come from another man...
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Finding Strength and Confidence Post-Divorce
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
In this episode of the Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast, we dive deep with Cheryl, a mother of two, whose post-divorce journey reflects the emotional complexity so many women face when rebuilding their lives. Cheryl holds nothing back, discussing the early fears she carried—from concerns around safety and childhood wounds resurfacing, to the sheer uncertainty of starting over. Listen as she reveals the pivotal moment she discovered the power of listening to her body, trusting her intuition, and honoring her core values. We explore the critical role of boundaries in creating emotional...
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How Do I Know If It’s Time to Divorce? The Brutal Truth No One Talks About
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
In this episode, I’m inviting you into one of the most tender and complicated questions you may ever face: How Do I Know If It’s Time to Divorce? If you’ve been living in a cycle of uncertainty, replaying conversations, second-guessing yourself, or worrying about the impact on your children, this conversation is designed to bring you clarity, calm, and a grounded sense of direction. I explore the fears and confusion that naturally arise when you’re considering divorce, and I help you distinguish between conflict that can be healed and patterns that may be too damaging or...
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Divorce Disaster Waiting to Happen: The Cost of Not Building a Strategic Team Early
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
In this episode of the Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast, we explore one of the most important strategies for navigating divorce: building a collaborative team from the start. I talk with Andrea Vacca, a leading collaborative divorce attorney, about how legal, financial, and emotional professionals working together can reduce stress, protect your long-term goals, and create smoother outcomes. We discuss why early planning, intentional team alignment, and choosing the right divorce process—whether mediation, collaborative law, or litigation—are critical for managing high-conflict situations....
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The Costly Mistake Most People Make in Divorce: Ignoring the Money Trail
Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast
Are you worried your spouse is hiding money or manipulating finances during your divorce? In high-conflict divorces, it’s all too common for funds to be moved, concealed, or dissipated, leaving one partner in the dark and anxious about their financial future. In this episode of the Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast, I dive into the high-stakes world of divorce forensics and financial investigations, exploring what you need to know to protect yourself and your assets. I’m joined by seasoned forensic accounting expert Ilan Hirschfeld, who shares decades of experience uncovering hidden...
info_outlineWhen you’re in a high-conflict divorce, the behaviors often feel indistinguishable. Gaslighting. Manipulation. Control. Chaos. Emotional whiplash. It’s why so many people fixate on one question: Is my spouse a narcissist?
In this episode, I’m joined by licensed psychotherapist and narcissistic abuse expert Chelsey Brooke Cole to explore a deeper truth—when the impact on you feels the same, does the label actually matter?
We unpack what narcissistic abuse truly is, how it overlaps with other forms of emotional and psychological abuse, and why abusers and narcissists often behave in nearly identical ways during divorce. Especially when they’re losing control. Especially when the legal process becomes another tool for domination, punishment, and destabilization.
This conversation is not about diagnosing your ex. It’s about understanding patterns so you can stop internalizing blame, stop doubting your reality, and stop negotiating from fear. We talk about the internal experience of these dynamics—the fog, the shame, the fragmentation, the nervous system overload—and how those symptoms affect your ability to think clearly, make decisions, and advocate for yourself and your children.
Most importantly, we focus on what actually helps. How to protect yourself emotionally and strategically during a high-conflict divorce. How to anticipate predictable escalations. How to step out of reactivity and into steadiness. And how to begin rebuilding your sense of identity, self-worth, and agency after prolonged psychological control.
If you’re divorcing someone who feels impossible, unpredictable, or emotionally dangerous, this episode offers clarity, validation, and a path forward rooted in reality—not labels.
Chelsey Brooke Cole is a licensed psychotherapist, certified partner trauma therapist, bestselling author of If Only I’d Known!, and a nationally recognized expert in narcissistic abuse and complex trauma. She has been featured in USA Today, Psychology Today, HuffPost, WKRN News 2, and FOX 26 Houston, and supports thousands of survivors through her clinical work, education, and trauma-informed programs.
This episode is for anyone navigating a high-conflict divorce who needs to understand what’s happening, why it’s so destabilizing, and how to move forward without losing themselves in the process.
Connect with Chelsey:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chelseybrookecole
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chelseybrookecole
- Website: https://www.chelseybrookecole.com/
- Free ebook version of bestselling book, If Only I'd Known! How to Outsmart Narcissists, Set Guilt-Free Boundaries, and Create Unshakeable Self-Worth: https://us14.list-manage.com/survey?u=b1c7f3139f2ce732f0176d8e5&id=5e960f8627&attribution=false
Resources Mentioned in this Episode:
- Follow JBD on Instagram: @journey_beyond_divorce
- Book a Free Rapid Relief Call: http://rapidreliefcall.com
- Free Divorce Support Network Gift: https://divorcesupportnetwork.com/jbdpod