From the Big Sky to Big Wins: Montana’s VR Story (Final Episode)”

In the final episode of Manager Minute, host Carol Pankow closes out the series with a powerful conversation featuring Chanda Hermanson, Director of Montana Combined Vocational Rehabilitation (VR). Chanda’s lifelong passion for the field—shaped by family connections and early volunteering—has guided Montana’s innovative approach to serving people with disabilities across a vast and rural state. Together, they reflect on Montana’s recent breakthroughs, including legislative support for counselors, expanded telecommunications access, and the funding of a Blind Adjustment program. They also discuss the tough but necessary decision to enter Order of Selection, and how aligning with state priorities in behavioral health and foster care strengthens VR’s impact. This inspiring finale reminds VR leaders nationwide to stay mission-focused, innovative, and unwavering in their commitment to meaningful employment opportunities for all.

 

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Full Transcript:

 

{Music}

 

Chanda: What are their priorities? The people that are making these decisions. Who's the chair of the committee? What do they want? Right. And really figuring out what the governor's office priorities are. These types of things. And then figuring out how to get ourselves into those conversations. Listen, listen, listen and then infiltrate.

 

Carol: I know you don't have a crystal ball, but if you did, what do you have for some thoughts on what VR leaders need to pay attention to and what's on the horizon for VR?

 

Chanda: That's tough. I wish I had a crystal ball. I think all of our crystal balls are broken right now.

 

^{Intro Voice: Manager Minute brought to you by the VRTAC for Quality Management, Conversations powered by VR, one manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host Carol Pankow.}

 

Carol: Welcome to the manager minute. Joining me in the studio today is Chanda Hermanson, director of Montana Combined. So, Chanda, how are things going in Montana.

 

Chanda: It's good, busy, busy work and lots going on, but going good overall.

 

Carol: Well, it's so great to have you back on the podcast. I looked back through the archives. Saw you were last with me November of 2021 and we were talking about, "Is Your Fiscal Management Managed Building a Solid Foundation for Fiscal Fitness". And you've done and you continue to do so, an outstanding job assembling a stellar team to support the fiscal side of the House. And of course, Anna Montana is one of our very favorite people. So for our listeners, I had the opportunity to reconnect with Chanda during the region eight meeting in South Dakota, and 45 incredible staff from the region came together for training, connection and sharing and it was a really fun two days. Eric, director of South Dakota General, was leading a portion of the meeting and folks were going around sharing about challenges and opportunities when it got to Chanda. She shared some truly inspiring things happening in Montana. And I thought right then and there. That is what I want to talk about on my last podcast. Over the last five years, we've covered so many meaningful topics, and we need to go out on a high note. This is our 54th and final episode of The Manager Minute. So together we started conversations, started a movement of rapid and meaningful engagement, tackled tough topics like order selection and finance work to bridge the gap between the DSA and the DSU highlighted so many innovative Diff grants and exciting initiatives from across the country. I truly believe we've helped plant seeds of change nationwide, so let's dig in. So, Chanda, for those who may not know you, can you remind our listeners about your background and how you got into VR?

 

Chanda: Sure. I have been in the field about 20 years formerly, but I was in the field volunteering and doing other things previous to the formal employment with Voc rehab. My parents both worked in the field, so I was lucky enough to grow up in a household where this was our daily dinner conversations, and my parents and my siblings are recipients of Voc Rehab services, so the program's near and dear to me. When I was 19, the Montana started the Youth Leadership Forum. That was my mom's program at the time, and I was able and told that I she needed volunteers to work this summer program for youth with disabilities. And I came home and helped through that and fell in love with the work more directly than I did growing up. So since then, I tried other things along the way. But this is definitely where I'm meant to be and I'm so lucky to be here. I love it.

 

Carol: That is super cool. I didn't remember that about you, I love it. My mom, she had been volunteer coordinator at our state hospital back in Faribault, Minnesota when I was growing up, so I remember very well going with her and helping, and I would volunteer for things and ended up working there before it closed and kind of just gotten into the whole field of disabilities. So our parents definitely can help us, like lead the way. That is just cool.

 

Chanda: I didn't realize you had also.

 

Carol: Tell us about Montana Combined, how many staff and consumers do you serve? And kind of what's your budget?

 

Chanda: Like our budget's about $19 million a year annually, give or take, where things are going on. We have about 100 staff supporting the rehab program in our blind and low vision service programs, too. So that's the number of staff we have on board. We also have separate things out differently. So we have Pre-ETS in there. They're their own bureau. We have blind and low vision. They're their own bureau. And then we function together as a combined voc rehab program. Though we are serving about 5000 people under voc rehab and 3000 students in Pre-ETS.

 

Carol: Wow. So you're not small. Sometimes people are thinking, oh, maybe you're from a small state. You're not a smallish program, you're more a mid-size.

 

Chanda: And people are very far apart here. The numbers maybe don't look that much, but when you need to get to everybody in every corner of Montana, it's a trek.

 

Carol: Yeah, and travel is rough. Like, it's not an easy haul.

 

Chanda: No.

 

Carol: So let's talk about your good news. What exciting developments do you have to share?

 

Chanda: Yeah. So we just ended our 2025 legislative session in May. Our legislative body meets every other year for 90 days. So it is a fast and furious process. But we survived. That's always the first thing we did get through it. But we did get out pretty successfully compared to a lot of our peers in public health and human services and a lot of other programs just statewide. We went into the session asking, well, just start this off to we are lucky enough to traditionally get our state match without a problem. It's always just part of what they, it's our start of our base budget so that we are fortunate for that. Where we struggle is our staffing levels and getting the appropriation to get the FTE, we need to really provide a quality service to people more than managing those cases. We don't have autonomy over the number of employees we can hire, so that's always our struggle. So we went in asking for four FTE to support the individualized placement and supported employment model, and serving the serious, disabling mental illness population for counselors for that project and then one FTE to work in the state hospital. We are in and out of the state hospital, constantly taking applications and helping people prepare for work before discharge. We just thought that it would behoove us to actually just have a staff member in the hospital setting, rather than being disruptive going in and out.

We also, outside of Oak Ridge, have asked for some more appropriation to support our telecommunication access work and two more FTE there, just given the high increase in need and work. And then we also requested funding and an FTE to create a Blind Adjustment program to meet the gap in services that we created when the homemaker was no longer allowed as an employment goal. So those were our asks. We didn't get everything we asked for, but we did come out with two new counselors for the STMI-IPS work and our telecommunication money into FTE. So while that's not directly related to VR, it does help our voc rehab program and help those participants in gaining access to equipment and services to make sure their communication needs are met. And then we also did get the funding for the Blind Adjustment program. So that was really exciting. It's been hard for us to turn away people that are going through the onset of vision loss, and if they're not really wanting to talk about work, it's under the age of 55. That's definitely been an area of opportunity. So we're excited to get to serve those folks now in a different way.

 

Carol: That is super amazing, because it's almost like unheard of lately where people have kind of good news where you went in, you asked for these things and you got stuff.

 

Chanda: That some of it not all, but some of it. And I also we didn't ask for it. It wasn't part of our decision package request. But our providers did a great job lobbying this year and they got themselves a couple of provider rate increases, so it amounts to about a 17% provider rate increase. And so that comes along with more state general funds. So that's going to give us more ability to draw down some realignment that maybe we wouldn't have been able to if those guys didn't lobby for those provider rate increases.

 

Carol: So good on you. That is pretty incredible. I know IPS is a really popular program across the country and successful. It's wanted and very foundational. It's got good statistics about what has happened with that. Your telecommunications project. You talk a little more about that, what it all does.

 

Chanda: Yeah. Our telecommunication access program provides phone equipment and maybe cell phones or some of your old big button phones and different speaker system type of things that we also cover the relay system in Montana, and we provide for transcription on zoom and public meetings and various groups around the state. So with the increased need for people to access broadband and internet. Type of activities we are seeing. Not only is the need increasing, but the cost of all of it's increasing too. So we're really happy to get to support that.

 

Carol: Yeah, that is very cool. I know broadband was a big issue in Minnesota for a long time. When I was working at the Department of Employment and Economic Development, we had a broadband initiative because I wondered if yours had a little to do with that, because we have super rural areas. I mean, you definitely we have the Twin Cities, you know, metro area, but you get out state. It's tough. And people are talking about, you know, if you wanted to be self-employed or different things you can do via internet. Well, yeah, only if you can access that. If there's no connectivity, you're done. Like you don't even have that option out there. So I really get to pay attention firsthand at how important access to communication is for everybody.

 

Chanda: So important. And we already are experiencing, you know, in the disability community, isolation issues just in general. So this is really a great solution to get to people if they're out in a very frontier part of Montana. This can help really get them a sense of community in other ways.

 

Carol: Yeah, that's just direct boots on the ground. Wonderful access for folks, I love that. So I'm sure you had to do some background stuff. You didn't just waltz in and go, hey, I want this stuff. Give it to me. They're not likely. They're like, yeah, we like you, Shannon, but not that much. We need something. What kind of things did you pull together, like, data wise, to support your request?

 

Chanda: Sure. Well, first, it's just paying attention to what elected officials priorities are. That's the first kind of anecdotal data to be gathering. So really listening to the governor's initiatives and what his priorities are, along with, again, these elected officials that are on our committee subcommittee making the decisions about are the first decisions about our budget, which is the most important decision as it works our way through the entire session. So through that, we really observed that there's strong emphasis on behavioral health systems change in Montana in foster care, too, and we realize we are part of that system, not in the way that everybody was talking about it or thinking about it. I'm a lot more of what they're having to talk about, right? As case management and housing and all the other things. And employment doesn't even rise to the surface when you're hearing those things, because it's just different mindset. And so we took that and leveraged it to start joining those conversations and talk about how employment is a social determinants of health for the population, and all the benefits of employment that augments and assists all the things that they are talking about. It helps with treatment and recovery and provide stability can help with the housing issues. It gives people a sense of purpose. All of this prevents relapse and homelessness. And so just really getting to take the opportunity to join the conversation and talk about it in a different way to just educate folks on how employment can support all of this other work they're doing. A lot of people tend to lean into safety, safety, safety, when they're making these decisions, not realizing that employment is part of that safety. And I think a lot of times people really get linear thinking like, okay, you need x, y, and Z, and then you're going to be ready for employment, not realizing that employment can come in any step of the way and really change the trajectory of all those other things you're providing them. So through that, we dug into the data. What are our caseloads look like? What is the general population for people needing behavioral health services in Montana? And we found that 34% of Montana's caseload are individuals with behavioral health disabilities. So that equates to about 1500 people on our caseload right now. And when you look at the general census in Montana, there's about 163,000 people with health disability. So we are only serving a sliver. And we know that typically through our research that two thirds of people with behavior, health disabilities typically want to go to work. So through combining all of that data and telling a story and telling stories of people successfully navigating this in their communities. I do believe that that's what helped us get across the finish line, to make sure that we can really do more work, and we're excited. It is important to us.

 

Carol: Yeah, you were really smart. I mean, you were listening. I can hear you. You were listening to what people were talking about. And how could you leverage and be part of that conversation, which takes time. I'm sure you didn't do this in a day. I mean, this takes years. Like building relationships and getting invited to those meetings and being able to discuss those ideas. I think that is brilliant. What would you say to your fellow colleagues across the country who might be wanting to consider something similar in their state? Like, what would you suggest to them on how to start or how to get kind of involved or part of those conversations?

 

Chanda: I'm just going to reiterate again. Listen, listen, listen. It's the beat of our drum. The last 2 or 3 years of the leadership team here in Montana has been listen. Listen, listen and then infiltrate. So what are people talking about? What are their priorities? The people that are making these decisions. Who's the chair of the committee? What do they want? Right. And really figuring out what the governor's office priorities are, these types of things, and then figuring out how to get ourselves into those conversations. And we're really lucky in rehab because we touch everything, whether it's manufacturing coming into the state or behavioral health issues, or what can we do to improve foster care systems in Montana, you name it. Many of the things that the legislators are worried about and are making decisions about, we touch so we can get ourselves at the table and talk about how we can influence what they're talking about and how we're already making an impact. It's so cool what we do.

 

Carol: It is cool because we have such variety. It makes the job super creative, like you can really do a variety of things that are amazing and wonderful and impact people's lives in such a big way. Like you say, with employment, you know that trajectory. Sometimes people think you need all these things first? But boy, you get that job, which also helps in with your housing and all the other things that are going on. You can intersect at any point. I love that, I think that's really good. I know you don't have a crystal ball, but if you did, what do you have for some thoughts on what VR leaders need to pay attention to and what's on the horizon for VR?

 

Chanda: That's tough. I wish I had a crystal ball. I think all of our crystal balls are broken right now. I don't have a thought of what is on the horizon, but I do know that we just need to stay focused on our mission and values and the vision of what we have and don't falter. We have and work for one of the coolest programs out there and get to be innovative and creative and like we were just referring to, we can pivot and message around so many things that make what we do compelling to different decision makers. I think that's pretty unique, and I think there's ways to take advantage of that to make sure that we survive and thrive regardless of what happens, because we do have so much impact across the board. So but if we don't, we need to stay focused on our mission and values to make sure we're successful and don't get lose sight of that along the way.

 

Carol: I agree with that 100%. I think living into our mission and doing it well and not drifting kind of all over the place. If we get people disabilities into employment and good employment, not just food, filth and flowers, but real employment, that's what it's all about. And when we get distracted by other stuff, or maybe our performance doesn't look as good and all of that, we got to stay focused early, head down. Here's what we're trying to do, because that's the whole reason this wonderful program has existed for over 100 years. So head down, do the thing.

 

Chanda: Yes.

 

Carol: 100%. That is awesome. Well, this actually wraps up our final episode of The Manager Minute. Now, I know you have some other news. Probably. Do you want to talk about it today? Because you are going an Order of Selection, and I know states are facing that as well. We've talked to a couple states lately about that, talked with Indiana, talked with Cora in Kentucky. And while we have all this wonderful work going forward, we still have this lever that Congress lets us pull when we don't have all the resources to serve every single person coming at the door. And for you, this is a really live situation that's happening as we speak.

 

Chanda: Correct. We actually went into Order Selection today. We closed categories two and three. So it's been a long process working with RSA since February. But we're happy. It's bittersweet. I mean, we're not happy to get order of selection, but for the health of the program and to make sure that we can continue to provide high quality services and to not dilute client services, it's what needed to happen. Our caseloads are unmanageable. We're looking at caseloads that are about 170, on top of just the general cost of services continuing to increase. Our fiscal forecasting was clear we needed to get into order sooner than later so we could manage the best we can.

 

Carol: It's a good way to look at it, because you don't want the services to dilute, because it ends up where staff are kind of applying an order without the order being in play. You get a lot of people getting a little bits of stuff instead of people really getting what they need. And so it does provide a more organized way in which to structure and to handle all of this. And I like that about it. I think Congress wouldn’t put it into place. If we weren't allowed to pull the lever and make that happen, it does make it organize it. It helps your staff to be able to do the work that they want to do and to help people to get into employment. So I think that is very good. Do you have any thoughts for your colleagues on that too? Because I've had several calls, even in the last week. Again, people are like, I think we're looking at this. Any tips for people out there?

 

Chanda: The one thing I would say is relook at your CSNA, get familiar with your data that's out there. That's going to be important as you look at amending your state plan and contact RSA sooner than later. I had received that advice from a colleague and that was I wouldn't, I don't think have naturally contacted RSA that soon in the process and I'm glad I did.

 

Carol: Yeah, that's 100% smart advice. Definitely talking to your team sooner than later. They can help you along the way, for sure, with that. Well, I wish you good luck with all that implementing. I know it's tough. I mean, it is tough in the messaging, but I know also you have built back from even when we talked in 21 that financial solid group. And so your fiscal forecasting is on Anna is on it. You have really good people and they are doing really good stuff with making sure you have the data for making good decisions. I just think your team has been very amazing and that has been an a lot credit to you in helping to build that foundation.

 

Chanda: Well thank you. We have an awesome team and I truly can't believe that that podcast was four years ago. That was definitely a different time. And we have improved and built infrastructure now, sound methods and internal controls. So it's good to know that the decisions that we're making are dead driven, inaccurate, and that is what we need to do to stay healthy.

 

Carol: It's a whole different world. It really is. And it is funny. It's been four years, but I sure appreciate you being on today. And so this does wrap up my final episode of The Manager Minute, and I want to say thanks to every listener, guest, and colleague who's been part of this journey. Keep leading with purpose and passion because what you do changes lives every single day. And Jeff, you get the honor of hitting the lights. We're `out.

 

^{Music}

 

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