Reimagining VR: How the NVRTAC is Transforming Technical Assistance Nationwide

In this episode of Manager Minute, host Carol Pankow welcomes Dr. Chaz Compton and Dr. Meera Adya, co-directors of the new National Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center (NVRTAC). They discuss how the Center builds on decades of innovation in vocational rehabilitation (VR) to unify training, evaluation, and technology that strengthen state VR agencies across the nation.

Partnering with The George Washington University, the National Disability Institute, CSAVR, YesLMS, Case Review Solutions, SaraWorks, and Intellitech, the NVRTAC delivers comprehensive technical assistance to enhance performance, fiscal management, and employment outcomes for individuals with disabilities.

Key initiatives include AI-driven tools such as SaraWorks and Case Amplify, designed to reduce administrative burdens and capture real-world impact. The team is also launching leadership and fiscal talent development programs, expanding recruitment and retention efforts, and embedding continuous evaluation across all initiatives.

Their goal is to achieve measurable outcomes, real change, and a stronger, more efficient VR system serving individuals with disabilities.

 

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Full Transcript:

 

{Music}

Chaz: Right now, not ten years from now, but right today, we have the capacity to. Turn our administrative burden into an AI driven function that alleviates that burden.

 

Meera: Input is getting provided at the beginning and the middle at the end all over again. It really is that measurable and real change and ongoing calibration towards that is our North star.

 

Chaz: And having actual measurable outcome improvements. So simple as that.

 

Carol: That sounds good. How about you? What do you think?

 

Meera: Nothing to add. Measurable outcomes. Real change. Drop the mic.

 

Carol: Boom! I love it.

 

{Music}

Intro Voice: Manager Minute, brought to you by the Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center. Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time, one minute at a time. Here is your host, Carol Pankow.

 

Carol: Well, welcome to the Manager Minute. Joining me in the studio today are my close colleagues, doctor Chaz Compton and Doctor Meera Adya, Co-project directors of the new National Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Center, or VRTAC for short. So woohoo you guys! I'm so excited to have you here. How are things going Chaz?

 

Chaz: Wonderful. Very busy and very happy to be here. Thank you.

 

Carol: Excellent. How about you, Meera? How's it going?

 

Meera: Pretty good.

 

Carol: Awesome. Well, glad to have you both. I just want to give a little bit of history for our listeners. The Vocational Rehabilitation Technical Assistance Centers have a long and rich history rooted in the Rehabilitation Act itself. And from the very beginning, the act recognized that helping individuals with disabilities achieve meaningful employment requires more than just funding. It requires a system of continuous learning, innovation and improvement. And that's why the Rehabilitation Services Administration has long invested in national technical assistance centers to strengthen state VR agencies, build staff capacity and ensure programs stay aligned with evolving regulations, Relations, research and best practices, and over the years, these centers from the early TACE centers to WINTAC and the QM and QE and AIVR TAC and all the things, and now the new NBR tech have become the backbone of progress in our field, helping translate policy into practice and ensuring that the promise of the Rehabilitation Act remains strong for the next generation. So let's dig in. Gang, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourselves and your journey into VR? And, Chaz, I'm going to kick it to you first.

 

Chaz: Okay. Gosh, it's been 40 years now. Hard to believe. I started with a community rehab program 40 years ago this year.

 

Carol: Wow.

 

Chaz: A few years later, I moved into the public VR program in California. I was a counselor, a supervisor, and then a district administrator and got my doctorate degree at San Diego State University and moved over and directed the TA Center 15 years ago, and then the WINTAC and then the VRTAC-QM and now the what we call the VR TAC, the national VRTAC.

 

Carol: That is awesome. I did not realize it was 40 whole years. Chaz, I think we're pretty close in age to each other.

 

Chaz: It's been a while.

 

Carol: Meera, how about you? How'd you get your journey into this world?

 

Meera: Well, my work has always been at the intersection of empiricism and law and policy. So I'm a researcher and evaluator. I've done projects looking at how people with disabilities can be successful in workplaces and communities, thinking about inter work and the VR system. More specifically, I became engaged first as a partner, leading the program evaluation for Interworks Wintech centre. And then Chaz convinced me to come to Interworks continue doing what I was doing by taking the lead on the program evaluation for the VR, QM, and then our portfolio at Interworks has grown. Now there are several disability innovation grants and customized employment projects in addition to the TAC that we are leading the evaluation on. And Chaz then offered me the opportunity to continue growing my work, and here I am as the co-director of the center as a whole, and I'm honored and thrilled to support Chaz and our team. Take the work with VR and its partners forward to improve outcomes for people with disabilities.

 

Carol: I love it Meera, and you're a good addition, and we're really happy to have you as the Co-project director, too. So what is the overarching purpose of our new VR TAC?

 

Chaz: It is to provide technical assistance and training that will help VR agencies and their partners improve service delivery and increase the quantity and quality of employment outcomes for individuals with disabilities being served by VR program and their partners. Our major focus areas include helping agencies effectively manage the program, the performance of the program, the fiscal side of the program and their resources, and helping them identify and implement effective employment strategies and practices that accomplish the overarching goal of helping improve outcomes and service delivery. That's the big picture.

 

Carol: It is cool because it's like soup to nuts. I think sometimes, you know, the previous TAC, you know, they had very kind of more specific focus. And then with the QM and like QE too, you know, it expanded. But now we've got the whole shebang in one place.

 

Chaz: Mhm.

 

Carol: Very fun. Meera do you have anything you wanted to add to that?

 

Meera: Sure. I was just thinking about all the work that Chaz has been doing, the messages he sends us and how we've come together and so far trying to put it into an encapsulation. I've been coming up with one team or his words, but I think just such a good representation and you'll see that now in our messaging going forward, but also a yes. And we don't say no. We find a way to work together and is so what, what is the measurable change that's going to result from the work we do? I think you're going to see that over the next five years constantly coming up.

 

Carol: Yeah, I like that, Meera. You got to keep us grounded in that. About the so what? So what we can do lots of activities. But so what about them? And I see, Chaz, you're smiling at me because, you know, I'm an activity person. And it's like, but what's the benefit from what we did? So how does the new TAC build on the work in the lessons that were learned from all the previous work?

 

Chaz: Well, to say we've learned some lessons along the way, especially in the last ten years, would be an understatement. There have been the implementation of WIOA and all of the requirements associated with that, living through all of the implementation with agencies, helping them respond to that effectively, looking at the demographic shift in the field to youth, where now the majority of the people we serve are 24 years of age or younger. Looking at going into and out of Covid and how that changed service delivery, how the fiscal landscape of the program changed accordingly, how we have seen the pendulum shift fiscally from one side to the other and now back again. All of that has helped inform, I think, the development of our technical assistance and the training and the way we go into this new center. So we have just a bunch of lived experience, if you will, along with agencies. So what they have gone through, we have gone through with them, and I think we can help them successfully navigate the future. And while at the same time responding to the challenges that they face right now. So all of that, I think, really has laid an important foundation for the VRTAC and the work we're going to be doing with agencies.

 

Carol: I think you hit the nail with that. I think about all the last five years, even the work I've done and our team has done and how deep we got in with agencies like it felt like we were part. I often talk when I'm in at agency, I talk about we like I'm part of them because you're enmeshed in everything they're doing and their systems and their people and their meetings and all of their things. You become so ingrained with them. It really helped you to get such a clear picture of what was happening and helps really get maybe at the root of some of the issues and to develop that work fundamentally so that the seeds we laid could really grow and germinate and keep going forever and keep growing and growing and growing. So it isn't just a one shot. We did a little quick training and we're out of there. It really became such a deep lesson. Meera, how about for you with that lessons learned? I'm sure evaluation wise there are things you were thinking about as well.

 

Meera: Oh, absolutely. We have all of our past evaluation reports and findings, and we can keep looking at those. And I certainly keep bringing them up whenever it strikes me that there's a relevant point that comes forward again. And you can see with the way that Chaz has put together these innovative partners and projects, a continuation of the successful approaches and partnerships as well, and just a laser focus on measurable change that evolution and improvement and lessons learned is just baked into the center. As a research and evaluator, I know firsthand how the knowledge translation pipeline takes time, but it can take less time when you work directly with stakeholders from the beginning, and that's what's happening with us. Chaz has always taken evaluation seriously, woven it into the very fabric of the work. Stakeholders are the partners. They hold us accountable. We continuously are learning what's working. Pivot when needs must.

 

Carol: Well said Meera. Thank you for that. What current challenges do you guys see in the VR system that make a unified national TA center so important right now?

 

Chaz: To say that efficiency, accountability and improved outcomes are important would be an understatement. And this is not a new focus, of course. I mean, you have to go back to the movement of the Rehabilitation Act under the Workforce Investment Act of 1988, which was really an attempt to improve efficiency and refrain from duplication of services and improve outcomes and all that stuff. And that focus has just grown and grown,

 

Carol: right.

 

Chaz: and so a unified center is I mean, it really is helpful to ensure that everything is administrated under one center that we're focused on, you know, whether it's focused on improving performance, like on the performance measures, like improving an agency's ability to manage their fiscal resources or implement employment strategies like, say, customized employment, a unified center can address all of these aspects together, holistically, understand how they interact with each other and an agency. Instead of having 2 or 3 different entities trying to work together with a VR program differently, with different ways of doing business, ways of interacting all that. So it just is a very efficient, I hope. Anyway, an enhanced holistic way of working with an agency. Ultimately, I believe that will contribute to increasing the likelihood of positive outcomes.

 

Carol: I like the part with the employment being in with us now. Not that employment wasn't in our mind, but it was distant because we'd always put it like we, you know, we're referring folks over to the Q2E, but now with it all integrated, it really does kind of front and center. You're thinking about the fiscal things that my group is working at and how our impact is helping the program, maybe for stability or whatever may be going on, does impact the employment outcomes in the end, and the funds that are available and whether people go on an order or not, you know, all those kind of things. So I like that having it all together, it's a little closer, at least in my head. Meera, did you have any thoughts about that one as well?

 

Meera: I echo everything you both have said. The unified voice. Central voice. This center has always been a supportive voice. It is always on, always available, and that continues to be really needed. That is something we've heard in the evaluation interviews and feedback that we've received is that folks really appreciate being able to just call, get someone on the other end, get an answer right away, send an email, hear back right away. The responsiveness and the targeted information that they need has been phenomenal. And so looking forward to that continuing. And now across the whole range and spectrum of what technical assistance is needed. As you both have said, It's a time of, you know, as was said, significant change requirements may be shifting again, a laser focus on efficiency and effectiveness of work, which is right. And, you know, in the broader context, we're seeing significant disruption in the work world. And the future of work has been talked about. The future of work is here today. It's the today of how we work. And agencies need help navigating all of that with their customers. There's a lot for our stakeholders and our partners to navigate. I think we've seen from the evaluation feedback, this is where our team under Chaz really excels. It just brings together the many. It brings together the a lot. It goes to the heart of it and meets it on the grant.

 

Carol: Yeah. You lead into my next question about the partners on the grant because we have a deep bench. I mean, I felt like we had really phenomenal folks on the QM grant. But when I look at the partners you all have brought together for this, and we're on our first meetings and you've got, you know, 30 people in the Hollywood Squares instead of a dozen or so. It's a cool bunch, and people with such interesting expertise. So Chaz, who are the partners on our grant?

 

Chaz: Our biggest and primary partner is the George Washington University. We've been partners with them for really since national centers were funded. They were part of the WINTAC, part of the QM, and now we'll be a obviously a critical part of the VR TAC Every single one of them is a doer. Their hands are have their hands have gotten dirty and providing like literally in the trenches to just like our own staff at work Institute at San Diego State. We just have been, practically speaking, teammates for a very long time. We know each other well, we work together well, and we're very confident in each other's work. GW a big, huge partner of ours. Then there's the National Disability Institute, which is also a longtime partner of ours. They'll be helping with the employment strategies component of things and just are a very well respected, nationally known institute that is really has some super interesting and helpful information and resources and knowledge along with the rest of the team. Of course, many of our listeners will know. Yes LMS, we're working with Linda and her team this time around, expanding our available training resources to users out there. CSAVR of course, is another long time partner. Everybody knows them. Sara Works is a partner of ours as well. Sara Works has been a partner again since the WINTAC days and, you know, has done all kinds of work with us in terms of developing Sara, the AI program to help act as an assistant to VR programs, communication tool and so on. Then we have Case Review Solutions. It's just a new partner of ours this time around focused on quality assurance, case reviews, contract monitoring. So another use of software and technology to basically provide solutions to VR programs. And another new partner this time around in Intellitech, which has created a program called Case Amplify, which is an AI driven system, which we'll talk about here in a few minutes, but we're really excited about this one as well, because it provides an opportunity for agencies to see how things could potentially be different and more effective into the future. So those are our primary partners, yeah.

 

Carol: yeah. It's exciting. It's a cool group of people I really was thrilled to see in the very secret proposal that you would not share with us before we went in, and then you see what all the things are that are going to happen. You are always known, though, Chaz, for being the guy. You have those little fun projects that become part of the grant that you know, live on and people are able to carry out and they've created really cool things. This proposal with the exciting AI initiatives, can you share what tools like Case, Amplify and Sara Works are going to mean for state VR agencies?

 

Chaz: Absolutely. And I think it's important for folks to understand the why. Right. Like, why are these it's not just because they're fun and they are super fun. You're right. But there really is a reason behind developing these projects. And the primary reason is as agencies have implemented Wioa and this kind of goes back to lessons learned, right? We know that the data elements for, for instance, for the 911 and just the recording processes and all of the administrative responsibilities associated with being in compliance with the law and the regulations is a burden. It's a struggle, and especially in a period of time where recruitment and retention has been a challenge across the country. You know, when you lose people and they're the ones responsible for gathering and reporting this data, IT becomes a real challenge on everybody else. And I honestly, in my heart of hearts, believe that embracing advanced technology is the way out of this. It's the way to effectively respond to it. It's not by hiring more people to do administrative stuff, although that would be wonderful. But, you know, we're in this situation for a reason. And now we have right now, not ten years from now, but right today we have the capacity to turn our administrative burden into an AI driven function that alleviates that burden from VR staff. And that's what the why is behind this? Why are we doing this? Because we want agencies to see and participate. If you know, if they're able and willing in these projects to see what the impact could be. Now, of course, we don't know, for instance, what the impact will fully be. We have a vision for it.

But part of what this is is an experiment, right? It's a pilot, if you will, to make sure that we can see how it works. So the idea is that and I'll take Sara because Sara's been around for a while now. A lot of agencies know Sara. They know what's possible. Several of them use the program. Now, in our case, like under the VR tech, we're going to be using Sara to do something for pre-employment transition services that we haven't done yet. Now we're ten years. 11 years. Well, I guess ten years really post implementation 2016 was the full implementation. So we're approaching the ten year mark. And while we focused on implementing projects and tracking and reporting and down to the individual consumer level and all that good stuff. Making sure costs are allowable, that people are spending their 15%, all that good stuff. What we haven't done a very good job of yet is evaluating the impact of those services on individuals themselves. Like how has it impacted them? What does it mean in terms of their future employability or future involvement in post-secondary Ed or whatever it is we're trying to determine? And so using Sara specifically to communicate and gather information with students or former students on the impact of periods, and then analyzing that data and showing the impact, that's really where we're zeroed in on this project for Sara Works. Case Amplify, well let me go to CRS. So Case Review Solutions is a new software program developed by two of our former colleagues in the WINTAC and the QM, Rachel Anderson and Brittany McIvor. So they know right? Like what is it about the review system, the case review process, the process, the quality assurance process that is lacking the internal control process, right? How do we fix that or help fix it anyway? Or help states analyze where the deficiencies are and then give them information real time quickly along multiple levels to help them address it so that it's not a consistent finding and monitoring reviews so that they're on top of the changes that they need to make. So again, it's another technology solution to a challenge facing agencies. And they're also developing a contract monitoring tool that's going to be available later on in the project. That will help states monitor another big one. Right. We hear all the time is we're not sure like whether those contracts are doing what they should be doing and the quality of service delivery and all that stuff. So that's going to help with that.

Case Amplify is a AI program that Intellitech has developed. It's so exciting to talk about how this could potentially change. And I mean really change the way that VR staff are gathering and populating information into the case through case management system. Ultimately, it has the capacity ultimately to make the process hands free. That is, you can talk to an individual, and this system is listening and gathering information and populating all over into the CMS important data elements, summarizing meetings. And believe it or not, like if it does what we really want it to do, it's going to actually fill in the 911 data elements automatically based on these conversations at critical points along the pathway.

 

Carol: That's a game changer for people that alone with those what, 400 elements like that is a game changer.

 

Chaz: Yeah, I could not be more excited about this one than I am. I just think it's going to be revolutionary. You know, it's still in its development phase fully. It's still going to be kind of an experiment with agencies and how it integrates into their existing CMS. But that's part of why we call it a pilot, because it's supposed to be a way to kind of see if things work the way we want it to work.

 

Carol: It's so cool. I am really excited. I'm also excited about the whole evaluation part of projects because I long thought, you know, when I was back in Minnesota blind and we were getting all those funds spent on students and I'm like, we're getting at these kids earlier. I just knew in my heart of hearts like, this is going to make such a difference in their trajectory is going forward and employment, they're going to start better. They're going to start better in college because they're going to have all this exposure to things they had not had any exposure to. Finally, the time we get at being able to measure, is that really coming true? I mean, I believe it to be true, but it'll be nice to actually quantify it and go, yeah, this is what's happening for people. And we can see the real difference. And that investment that Congress had said all those years ago, we're going to invest in these kids. And they did it for a reason. And now the proof is going to be in the pudding with the results. I love it. So, Chaz, one of your goals was to strengthen the workforce. So tell us a little bit about the VR Fiscal Talent Accelerator and NRLI, the National Rehabilitation Leadership Institute.

 

Chaz: Yeah. Great. So most people know NRLI. They've heard about it in the past and or even many participated. I remember at one point a few years ago at a conference, Steve Wooderson said, hey, how many people here have gone to NRLI. And I swear, three quarters of the room raised their hand. So it's over 20 years old now, and it's a training program specifically targeted at the executive leadership level, staff of the VR program and preparing them over a year long process where we meet in person for a week, four weeks out of the year, three times in San Diego, one time in Washington, DC. And there's coaching and training contacts that go on throughout the course of the year in a cohort model. So that is supported by the VRTAC this time around. So that's kind of our primary executive leadership training tool. Then we're developing something new this time around. For those of you who are listening, who are familiar with the management concepts training that was part of the QM, that was the VR grants management certificate program that we developed as part of that center. This time around, we are specifically zeroing in on the fiscal folks in VR and preparing a kind of like, nearly like program for them, where we'll use the same cohort model. I'm not certain of all the details yet, but obviously, Carol, you'll be a super important part of that one. And we'll provide an opportunity for fiscal staff in VR agencies who some obviously like every other position turnover at times. And when they do turnover, if they take the knowledge with them and nobody's coming behind them, it can be really challenging. So the Fiscal Talent Accelerator program will be a way to help them understand all of the responsibilities right under fiscal responsibilities in the VR grant, helping them really manage those resources and effectively so that the agency has both not just in compliance, but has the resources available to serve as many folks as possible.

 

Carol: Absolutely. Yeah. I'm super excited about all of these projects. We've got a lot of work ahead. I know also, we had started spending some time under the QM addressing, you know, the recruitment and retention issues and leadership development and such. So how do you see that kind of expanding in the new grant?

 

Chaz: Well, it's definitely expanding. And so we're very excited about that because we know clearly that recruitment and retention especially was a just a real, real issue in the last five years. So we had a recruitment and retention pilot under the QM that worked with four states. And we have some really helpful tools and toolkits developed as a result of that. That's on the QM site now, will be brought forward under the VRTAC, but more importantly will be going into phase two from that process under the VRTAC, looking again at implementing those strategies and practices for recruitment and retention with other agencies, tracking the impact of that over time, and expanding the scope of that. John Walsh was really helpful in leading that effort under the QM, and he'll be doing that again. Also, we're developing onboarding resources for VR programs this time around, helping agencies kind of identify both what to include and giving them actual stuff and resources to include in an onboarding program for VR staff. We're moving beyond just the executive level of training for nearly into mid-level management and supervisory training. Training specifically targeted at those groups, which I think will be really helpful and certainly very needed and engaging in succession planning processes with agencies, both strategic planning and succession planning understanding the two of them are clearly linked, but giving agencies some real strategies and practices on how to develop a succession plan and implement that, so that we're not faced with this sort of mass exodus of institutional knowledge. When people both retire or resign and we're like, oh no, what do we do now? Right. So hopefully we're intending to create resources, training tools to help agencies address that proactively.

 

Carol: And we have some really awesome staff on this grant. This time around too, that can help. Our bench is deeper. You know, even in this area that are going to be able to help do that. So definitely. Meera, you have something you want to throw in there. I didn't forget you.

 

Meera: Oh I don't think so. Chaz covered all the practices and new projects really well.

 

Carol: Okay, Meera, I want you to tackle this one about the evaluation and data driving that ongoing improvement coming forward. Do you have thoughts about that? How's that going to look?

 

Meera: Sure. I think I spoke to this a little bit earlier, but to pick up from that thread, I mean, that is something we are consistently doing. We have multiple channels and approaches that monitor the work and the change that are taking place. We have custom built apps and tools that our IT group has created, so we can make sure that we're setting up plans and staying on track with the agencies and the work that we're doing with them. And we have stakeholders, partners, customers, all of whom can provide feedback in different ways. We meet regularly to discuss what we are hearing and what we are seeing. Formally speaking, we have two reports that are compiled and shared broadly, internally and with stakeholders. We hold meetings, review the findings, and consider recommendations by taking that report apart and into little bite, but continuously throughout the year. We're not waiting for those big report moments. Evaluation Group has been woven into the work we do. They are a part of all the regular meetings that are taking place for the center, and input is getting provided at the beginning and the middle at the end, all over again. It really is that measurable and real change and ongoing calibration towards that is our North star. That will continue to be so.

 

Carol: Led by the awesome you, which will be great.

 

Chaz: Exactly.

 

Carol: My final question to you too what will success look like for the VRTAC over the next five years. And Chaz, I'll ask you first.

 

Chaz: Well, it will be demonstrably changing for the better outcomes in the VR program and service delivery. It will be serving individuals with the kind of commitment to meeting their individual needs and wants and desires and employment factors, and agencies operating efficiently and effectively and having actual measurable outcome improvements. So simple as that.

 

Carol: That sounds good. Meera, how about you? What do you think?

 

Meera: Nothing to add. He stole it right there at the end. Measurable outcomes. Real change. Drop the mic.

 

Carol: Boom! I love it. So, how do people find you?

 

Chaz: Our website will be VRTAC or just VRTAC.org. We have the site kind of really in its shell form right now. We're developing it. Give us a couple of months to get it fully going, but if you need to reach us, you can certainly contact any of us through the channels that you would normally reach us through the VRTAC-QM. Can send an email to me or to you or anybody else on the team. And at this point, I think most agencies are able to reach us in whatever way they want. But soon the website will be up and running and they can get us there or any number of ways.

 

Carol: Awesome. Well, I sure appreciate both joining me this morning. It was super cool. And we can check back in in a couple years too and go like, woo, where are things now? It'll be fun to report on some more successes. So thank you both. Have a great day.

 

Chaz: Thanks, Carol. Appreciate you having us.

 

Meera: Thank you.

 

Outro Voice: Conversations powered by VR. One manager at a time. One minute at a time. Brought to you by the VRTAC. Catch all of our podcast episodes by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening.