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How to Talk to People Who Disagree With You (Julie Rose)

Phoenix and Flame Podcast

Release Date: 07/28/2024

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Fifteen years into a career built entirely on asking hard questions, my guest today lost the ability to want to ask them. Julie Rose spent two decades as a national radio journalist, hosting a daily interview show on SiriusXM, and then a few years ago she realized she could no longer stomach engaging with the news, even though that was literally her job. She'd built an entire on-air identity around being fearless enough to ask what everyone else was thinking, and yet in her own personal life she wasn't having those conversations at all. Not even with her own mom, whose politics she couldn't figure out how to talk about without the conversation going nowhere good.

That crisis became Julie's whole second act: figuring out how to talk to people who disagree with you without either avoiding them or turning every exchange into a fight. Her answer, in one word, is curiosity, and she walks me through how she rebuilt that muscle, starting with reading the opinion piece she disagrees with most before she ever opens her mouth in real life. We get into the two hidden beliefs that wreck most hard conversations (that the point is to win, and that listening means agreeing), and a real-time example: a friend's provocative text about "cultural appropriation" that could have ended a 20-year friendship, and instead deepened it.

If you've ever gone quiet rather than risk a fight, or you're avoiding a conversation with someone you love because you're sure it'll go sideways, Julie's method is one of the most practical things you'll hear all year.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGAdmd8sR4g

In this episode

  • Why a veteran news journalist stopped being able to stomach the news, and what that crisis taught her about fear
  • The two hidden beliefs that make hard conversations go badly: that the point is to win, and that listening means agreeing
  • A simple way to practice curiosity before you ever open your mouth: reading the opinion you disagree with most, on purpose
  • Dana's "duologue" concept, and how to tell if you're actually listening or just waiting for your turn to talk
  • A real-time text-message case study in staying curious with someone who's trying to pick a fight
  • Why seeing "the toddler someone once was" changes how you argue with them, for good

Timestamps

  • (00:01) Welcome and guest intro: meet Julie Rose, 20-year NPR journalist and host of Top of Mind
  • (02:03) The moment she lost the desire to engage with the news that was her job
  • (05:16) The identity crisis of a self-described "avoider of conflict" who became a journalist
  • (07:58) Curiosity as the antidote to fear-driven news consumption
  • (15:40) Why most of us were trained to treat conversations as something to win, not learn from
  • (24:13) Dana's "duologue": when you're just waiting for your turn to talk, not actually listening
  • (25:23) The practice exercise: reading the opinion you disagree with most, on purpose
  • (28:49) The real-time test: a friend's provocative text about "cultural appropriation"
  • (35:38) The moment empathy cracks open: seeing "the toddler they once were" in someone you disagree with
  • (40:44) Where to find Julie: "Top of Mind" and her new podcast, "Uncomfy"

About Julie Rose

Julie Rose has been a radio journalist for 20 years, reporting for NPR, local stations, and network shows like Morning Edition and All Things Considered. She's a Gracie Award winner and multiple Edward R. Murrow Award recipient. In 2015 she began hosting the nationally syndicated interview show "Top of Mind with Julie Rose" on SiriusXM 143, and she recently launched a second podcast, "Uncomfy," about staying with moments that challenge us.

Find her at Top of Mind with Julie Rose, on Instagram, Facebook, or LinkedIn.

Favorite quotes

"I discovered the power of curiosity, genuine curiosity." —Julie Rose
"Once you have seen in their eyes the toddler that they once were... it's so much harder to just paint them as that scary other." —Julie Rose
"When people have strong feelings about issues, most of the time it's not just out of the blue... it's because they've had lived experience that has shaped and affected them." —Julie Rose

Resources mentioned

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