What Was DEI Actually Meant to Do—and Why Did It Go Off Track?
Everyday Conversations on Race
Release Date: 01/14/2026
What Was DEI Actually Meant to Do—and Why Did It Go Off Track?
Everyday Conversations on Race
A Conversation with Joe Santana; a DEI original Would you agree that most conversations about DEI today sound loud, polarized, and disconnected from the work itself? In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, I talk with Joe Santana—advisor, author, and long-time DEI consultant—about where Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion actually came from and how it was originally practiced inside organizations. What really is DEI, (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion)? Joe and I have both spent decades doing this work. We’ve watched DEI evolve, get renamed, repackaged, misunderstood, and in some...
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Curiosity, Not Cancellation: Real Talk with Dr. Julie Pham
Everyday Conversations on Race
What happens when curiosity replaces fear? In this powerful and honest conversation, Simma Lieberman and Dr. Julie Pham, author of "7 Forms of Respect: A Guide to Transforming Your Communication and Relationships at Work", explore how curiosity helps us talk about race, identity, and respect without shame or defensiveness. They remind us that inclusion begins with wonder—and that respect isn’t fixed, it’s alive. Simma and Dr. Julie Pham dive into the idea of curiosity as a practice—a mindset we can bring to every interaction. They discuss how we each hold multiple identities, why...
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Voices of Triumph: Stories of African Women Immigrants in America
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Join Simma, the Inclusionist, as she hosts an illuminating conversation with Dr. Nneka and Dr. Angela, two Nigerian-born, U.S.-based doctors and authors. They discuss their empowering book, '' which chronicles challenges and triumphs faced by African women immigrants. Delve into personal anecdotes of overcoming adversity, the significance of community, cultural impact, and the importance of recognizing self-worth. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in bridging cultural divides and celebrating resilience. 00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview 01:09 Meet the Guests:...
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Black Health Matters: Community, Data, and the Journey to Wellness with Kwame Terra
Everyday Conversations on Race
How do we close the health gap in Black communities? In this episode, Simma Lieberman (“The Inclusionist”) talks with bEHR Health founder Kwame Terra about the urgent need for health equity, the power of community, and the real stories behind the statistics. From breaking world records to building a movement, this conversation will challenge, inspire, and empower you. Timestamps & Key Segments:00:00 – Introduction: Why Black Health Matters 02:15 – Meet Kwame Terra: From Runner to Health Equity Leader 07:30 – The Shocking Truth About Health Disparities 15:00 – bEHR Health:...
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What Might Be: Friendship, Race, and Transforming Power
Everyday Conversations on Race
How Two Legal Changemakers Are Redefining Leadership, Collaboration, and Racial Justice in a Divided World In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, Simma Lieberman is joined by Professor Susan Sturm of Columbia Law School, and community change agent Richard Gray of the Center for Collaborative Education. These longtime collaborators talk candidly about their friendship across race, the evolution of their leadership work, and how confronting racism means more than just talking about it. They explore how white people can genuinely show up in racial justice work, the difference between...
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Global DEI: Apartheid to Equity
Everyday Conversations on Race
In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, is joined by two incredible global Diversity, Equity and Inclusion experts: Michaël Stuber, the European DEI Engineer, and Nene Molefi, founder of Mandate Molefi HR Consultants in South Africa. While the focus of this episode is on the global Diversity, Equity and Inclusion landscape, it’s also a deeply personal conversation about their journeys, the challenges they’ve faced, and how their backgrounds have shaped their approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion. As we explore how Diversity, Equity...
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Navigating Race, Mental Health and Well-being in Corporate America
Everyday Conversations on Race
How can Black professionals address the mental, physical and emotional toll of success in corporate America? Join Simma Lieberman, the Inclusionist, in this insightful episode of Everyday Conversations on Race with guests Shaniqua McClendon and Justin Grant. Shaniqua, VP of Politics at Crooked Media, and Justin, an executive at JP Morgan Chase, share their personal stories and experiences about the significance of discussing race in society and corporate environments. They also delve into the intricacies of mental, physical and emotional health, especially for Black individuals in corporate...
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How Racist Competency Checks Prevent Merit-Based Hiring
Everyday Conversations on Race
Have you ever felt challenged or questioned because of your race? In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, Simma Lieberman welcomes Shari Dunn, author of Qualified: How Competency Checking and Race Collide at Work. Explore how race affects perceptions of competence and the real-world impacts of systemic racism in the workplace. You'll understand how racist competency checks can impede merit-based hiring. With personal anecdotes and historical insights, Shari Dunn sheds light on how people of color, especially Black women, face unfair scrutiny and bias in their...
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Can Descendants of the Enslaved Reconcile with the Enslavers?
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Magic Mind Bundle: Get 45% off the Magic Mind bundle with Simma's exclusive link: (Support mental health services for the homeless and low-income communities) Are you ready to explore the challenging topics of race and reconciliation? In this episode of 'Everyday Conversations on Race,' hosted by Simma Lieberman, we dive deep into the initiatives of the Descendants Truth and Reconciliation Foundation. Guests Monique Trusclair Maddox and Fr. Tim Kesicki, SJ, share their compelling stories and the foundation's mission to address the historical injustices of Jesuit-owned...
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Can Individuals Really End Racism?
Everyday Conversations on Race
Summary: In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, Simma Lieberman is joined by Dr. Joe-Joe McManus and Juan Lopez, two individuals who share their experiences and insights into anti-racism and building true, meaningful interracial relationships. The conversation focuses on the importance of talking about race, the difference between being "non-racist" and "anti-racist," and how everyone can take small actions to fight racism. The episode highlights the need for intentional relationships across cultures and races, the significance of sharing personal stories, and the long-term process...
info_outlineA Conversation with Joe Santana; a DEI original
Would you agree that most conversations about DEI today sound loud, polarized, and disconnected from the work itself?
In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, I talk with Joe Santana—advisor, author, and long-time DEI consultant—about where Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion actually came from and how it was originally practiced inside organizations.
What really is DEI, (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion)?
Joe and I have both spent decades doing this work. We’ve watched DEI evolve, get renamed, repackaged, misunderstood, and in some cases quietly dismantled. What often gets lost is that DEI didn’t start as a political position. It started as a business conversation—about how organizations function, how people are evaluated, and how talent is either used or ignored.
What is the business case for DEI? Why are people still talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion?
The early thinking behind DEI and why it mattered to organizational performance
How good intentions gave way to vague language and inconsistent practice
What happens when leaders avoid difference instead of learning how to work with it
Why “treating everyone the same” sounds fair but rarely works
How Employee and Business Resource Groups can either matter—or miss the point entirely
This is a grounded conversation between two practitioners reflecting on what we’ve learned, what we got wrong, and what still holds value—especially for leaders trying to make sense of the current moment.
You’ll learn more about the challenges, and strategic importance of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in organizations. From the historical context provided by pioneers like Roosevelt Thomas to practical advice on optimizing business outcomes, Joe shares a wealth of knowledge on how DEI can drive both social good and financial success in companies. The episode also covers the vital role of Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) and what organizations can do to leverage them effectively. You’ll gain valuable insights on turning DEI initiatives into strategic business tools.
If you’re looking for clarity instead of slogans, and experience instead of soundbites, you'll find it in this episode.
Guest Bio
Joseph (Joe) Santana is a business strategy coach and futurist specializing in developing CDOs, ERG/BRG leaders, and Executive Sponsors who drive measurable business impact. He is an author, keynote speaker, and member of the Forbes Business Council and the Fast Company Executive Board and a frequent contributor to articles in both organizations’ magazines. His insights and ideas have been shared globally in interviews with media outlets such as ABC, PIX, Fox, Ticker News, and The Black List, a streaming business interview show. His two most recent books, “The New DEI and ERG Frontier” and “SuperCharge Your ERGs,” are available on Amazon, offering invaluable guidance to those ready to embark on the journey toward 21st-century business-impacting success. As CEO of Joseph Santana, LLC, an Inc Verified company, he leads multiple brands focused on equipping CDOs and ERG/BRG Chairs in national and global enterprises with the skills and strategies needed to enhance organizational performance. Below is a graphic depiction of the brands owned by Joseph Santana, LLC.
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Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker, and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, Everyday Conversations on Race.
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her as a speaker for your next event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences.
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)
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