Dion Lim: The Anti-Asian Hate Story America Forgot
Everyday Conversations on Race
Release Date: 06/08/2026
What Happens When You Don’t Belong
Everyday Conversations on Race
Episode Summary , sociologist, conflict mediator, restorative justice practitioner, and author, joins Simma for a thoughtful conversation about identity, belonging, and communicating across differences. Growing up biracial (half Black, half white) as the youngest of 13 siblings, Angela learned firsthand what it means to feel like an outsider. Those experiences shaped her work in diversity, equity, inclusion, restorative justice, and creating genuine belonging. Together they discuss why belonging is the missing piece in DEI, how microaggressions can become harassment, why calling people in is...
info_outline
The 29% Problem: Steve Phillips on Race and Power
Everyday Conversations on Race
In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, Simma Lieberman sits down with Steve Phillips — national political leader, three-time author, Guardian and New York Times contributor, and founder of Democracy in Color. His latest book is Are White Men Smarter Than Everybody Else? Playing Offense in the Fight for Racial Justice in America (his latest) Key concepts discussed: SWAMP — Straight White American Male Preference: a framework to reframe the equality debate and expose overrepresentation of white men (29% of the population, yet dominant in every power structure) SWAMP...
info_outline
Dion Lim: The Anti-Asian Hate Story America Forgot
Everyday Conversations on Race
In this powerful episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, host Simma the Inclusionist sits down with Emmy award-winning journalist and author Dion Lim to confront a question too many are avoiding: "Why has the conversation about anti-Asian hate gone silent"? Dion takes us behind the headline-making DM that changed her career — an anonymous video of an elderly Asian man being brutally beaten in San Francisco — and reveals what it took to bring stories like his to light when her own newsroom resisted. From the murder of Vincent Chin to COVID-era scapegoating, she traces the deep...
info_outline
Frank Carbajal on Latino Leadership: From Migrant Farmworker Son to Silicon Valley Voice
Everyday Conversations on Race
Frank Carbajal grew up the son of Mexican migrant farmworkers in California's Imperial Valley, where summer temperatures hit 115 degrees and his mother worked the fields through her third trimester. Today he's the founder and president of Es Tiempo LLC, a co-author of three books on Latino leadership, founder of the Silicon Valley Latino Leadership Summit at Stanford University, and a former keynote speaker in Ken Blanchard's network. In this conversation with Simma, Frank talks about what it actually means to be Latino in America today — and why that word doesn't fit everyone who could...
info_outline
Dr. Gina Paige on African Ancestry: How DNA Reconnects Black Americans to Their African Roots
Everyday Conversations on Race
For most Black Americans, the family tree stops at a wall built by slavery. Dr. Gina Paige co-founded African Ancestry to tear down that wall. In this episode, she explains how her company uses DNA to trace Black people back to specific African countries and ethnic groups — not vague regions, not percentages, but actual present-day nations and peoples. Gina walks Simma through the science in plain language, explains why African Ancestry gets results other DNA companies can't, and talks about what happens inside people when they finally know where they come from. She also addresses the...
info_outline
From Black Panther to Corporate America: Elmer Dixon on Race, Revolution, and Why DEI Is Not Dead
Everyday Conversations on Race
Simma Lieberman and Elmer Dixon go back over 50 years — she was in the Young Patriots, he was co-founding the first Black Panther Party chapter outside California. In this conversation, they cut through the lies, revisionist history, and current attacks on DEI to talk about what the Black Panther Party actually stood for, why erasing Black history will never work, and what it takes to stay courageous when the political winds turn ugly. Elmer shares what it was like to transition from revolutionary to corporate diversity consultant, corrects the record on the myths about the Panthers, and...
info_outline
Why We Can't Stop Talking About Race: A Conversation with Carole Copeland Thomas
Everyday Conversations on Race
Carole Copeland Thomas has been black all her life — and she's spent decades making sure that means something in every room she walks into. Born in a Black hospital in Detroit during segregation, raised in a middle-class family where college was expected and Black excellence was the air she breathed. Carole became a Certified Speaking Professional (CSP) who helps organizations turn complex challenges into real action. In this conversation, Carole and Simma go deep — on race, history, identity, the current political moment, and what all of us need to do right now. They talk about why...
info_outline
What Happens When a White Neighbor Writes a Black Woman’s Story?
Everyday Conversations on Race
What happens when two neighbors—one Black, one white—move beyond small talk and start sharing their real stories? In this episode, Simma talks with Sandra Eggleston and Bill Byrne, whose unlikely friendship led to the book MLK to Brother Ray: A Woman’s Adventure of Social Transformation, Political Revolution, and Personal Affirmation. Sandra spent four decades as a United Airlines flight attendant during a time when the U.S. was being reshaped by the Civil Rights Movement and the Women’s Movement. Along the way she met cultural icons, witnessed historic events, and navigated racism...
info_outline
Do We Still Need to Talk About Race?
Everyday Conversations on Race
In this episode of , host Simma Lieberman welcomes Verna Williams, CEO of , former law professor, and former dean, for a powerful conversation about race, justice, and access to legal representation in America. Verna explains why race remains a necessary topic—not to assign personal blame, but to understand how systems shaped by slavery and segregation continue to influence opportunity and social hierarchy today. She reflects on growing up in the Washington, DC and Maryland area, attending both predominantly white and predominantly Black schools. Those experiences sharpened her awareness of...
info_outline
Can Women of Color and White Women Be Friends?
Everyday Conversations on Race
From Fear to Friendship: The 30-Year Journey of an Interracial Women's Circle What does it really take for women across race, identity, and experience to move from awkward conversations to real friendship? In this episode, I talk with two people I deeply respect—Julie O’Mara and Dr. Sid Reel—about a women’s circle I’m part of that’s been meeting for nearly 30 years. What started as a conference breakout session turned into something far more rare: a space where white women and women of color stayed in relationship through grief, anger, mistakes, growth, and joy. We talk...
info_outlineIn this powerful episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, host Simma the Inclusionist sits down with Emmy award-winning journalist and author Dion Lim to confront a question too many are avoiding: "Why has the conversation about anti-Asian hate gone silent"?
Dion takes us behind the headline-making DM that changed her career — an anonymous video of an elderly Asian man being brutally beaten in San Francisco — and reveals what it took to bring stories like his to light when her own newsroom resisted.
From the murder of Vincent Chin to COVID-era scapegoating, she traces the deep historical roots of anti-Asian racism in America. She explains why the silence after the peak of BLM and Stop AAPI Hate is not just disappointing — it's dangerous.
Topics in This Episode:
- Why anti-Asian hate is "as old as the Gold Rush" — and why we're erasing that history
- The cultural shame that keeps Asian American victims from speaking out
- The death threats and hit pieces Dion faced for reporting the truth
- How DEI rollbacks are affecting communities right now
- What Black-Asian solidarity actually looks like on the ground
- The role food, music, and pop culture play in bridging racial divides
- Dion's new book Amplify: My Fight for Asian America (foreword by Olivia Munn)
You’ll hear:
- The anonymous 12-second DM that changed everything — a video of an elderly Asian man being attacked while collecting cans in San Francisco's Bayview neighborhood
- Why Asian American victims often don't come forward: cultural conditioning, family shame, distrust of media, and generational silence
- Anti-Asian hate isn't new — from the Gold Rush to Vincent Chin to Yik Oi Huang and Vishal Ratanapakdee
- How COVID gave people permission to blame Asians — and how "kung flu" and "China virus" language fueled violenc
- The backlash Dion faced: a Washington Post hit piece orchestrated by a former DA's team, death threats from people who denied anti-Asian hate was real
- Why the Asian American community isn't monolithic — income inequality, cultural differences, and the "model minority" myth
- The connection between Black and Asian communities — shared history, manufactured division, and what solidarity actually looks like on the ground
- Grassroots response: patrol groups, the Blue Angels in Oakland, and the role of everyday people showing up for each other
- Simma's own history with the original Rainbow Coalition — The Young Patriots, the Black Panthers, the Young Lords, and Asian groups working together in the late '60s and '70s
- The immigrant parent dynamic: silence as survival, pride as a long time coming, and what it meant when Dion's father finally expressed pride after her 20/20 appearance
- What Dion wants for the next generation: be loud, find your community, take care of your mental health, and don't be afraid to take up space
- TV recommendation: Warrior — the series about the rise of the Tongs and how Chinese workers were treated in California
- The ask: get Amplify on the New York Times bestseller list — and why it matters beyond sales
Key Learnings:
- Silence is not safety. When institutions stop talking about race, hate doesn't disappear — it goes underground and grows. The rollback of DEI programs and race coverage in newsrooms makes communities more vulnerable, not more comfortable.
- Anti-Asian hate has deep American roots. This isn't a COVID story. It goes back to the Gold Rush, the Chinese Exclusion Act, and the murder of Vincent Chin. Understanding that history is the first step to not repeating it.
- Cultural conditioning keeps people quiet. Many Asian Americans are raised to not cause a fuss, not draw attention, not inconvenience others. That silence protects no one — it protects the people doing harm.
- Division between communities is often manufactured. The tension between Black and Asian communities didn't come from nowhere. It was seeded deliberately, and it dissolves quickly when people actually get to know each other.
- You don't have to share someone's experience to show up for them. The people who moved Dion most weren't Asian — they were people from every background who said "I didn't know, and now I do."
Timestamps:
- 1:08 – Who is Dion Lim and why she's fighting for Asian America
- 2:51 – "It feels like crickets" — DEI rollbacks and the dangerous silence
- 4:05 – The 12-second video that changed Dion's career forever
- 5:50 – Anti-Asian hate didn't start with COVID — it goes back to the Gold Rush
- 8:43 – From fluff pieces to death threats: how Dion's journalism transformed
- 10:15 – The shameful cultural silence keeping Asian victims from speaking out
- 13:58 – The Washington Post hit piece, orchestrated by a DA's team
- 16:15 – Why people deny anti-Asian hate even exists
- 21:25 – "It was okay to blame Asians for COVID" — how a pandemic became a weapon
- 24:14 – Dion's own mother told her to stop reporting. Here's why.
- 27:42 – Are newsrooms giving up on covering race?
- 31:00 – The "model minority" myth that erases Asian poverty
- 39:22 – What real Black-Asian solidarity actually looks like
- 46:01 – The history America buried: forced labor, exclusion laws & the show Warrior
- 51:01 – Dion's call to action + her book Amplify
Guest Bio:
Dion is a beloved Emmy Award-winning journalist, two-time author, and international keynote speaker. For over 20 years, she has transformed complex, high-stakes issues into clear, compelling stories that resonate with millions. A trusted expert in media presence, Dion now helps executives and changemakers communicate with the same clarity, confidence, and impact. Her work amplifying underrepresented voices has built bridges across diverse communities and sparked lasting change.
Connect with Dion Lim:
Get the book: Amplify: My Fight for Asian America — available now!
If this episode moved you, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Subscribe, leave a review, and help us get these conversations heard across the globe.
Click here to DONATE and support our podcast
All donations are tax deductible through Fractured Atlas.
Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist, helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker, and facilitator. Simma is the creator and host of the podcast, Everyday Conversations on Race.
Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com to get more information, book her as a speaker for your next event, help you become a more inclusive leader, or facilitate dialogues across differences.
Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information
Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)
Connect with me:
Instagram
Facebook
YouTube
Twitter
LinkedIn
Tiktok
Website
Previous Episodes