S10E1: How to Say Goodbye Well

Over the last four years, we've written podcast episodes about the sex education the church didn't want you to have. 

One of the most threatening things for a high-control religious system is a goodbye, which results in actual transitions away from these groups that are secretive, forced, and avoidant.

In this episode, we describe an intentional, proper goodbye, from the perspective of how we structure intentional final sessions with our clients. 

Also, this is the last official episode of Sexvangelicals. We ask these six common questions to help us reflect on our Sexvangelicals journey:

1. Where did we start and why?

2. What did we learn?

3. How have we grown?

4. What did we do well?

5. What do we wish we had done differently?

6. What is the unfinished work?

Specifically, we talk about: 

• Transitions (2:30): Jeremiah kicks us off, “ Relationships are full of transitions, big and small, and these transitions almost always include some sort of goodbye.”

• Opportunity to Say Goodbye (2:50): Julia adds, “ Even the more mundane transitions like a schedule change or rearranging division of household labor include some sort of goodbye. You are doing something or something was a part of your life and now it's not, or it's different … give yourself and your relationship the opportunity to say goodbye.”

• Who You Were Before the Goodbye (13:00): Julia notes, “ As you are considering your own goodbye right now, take a mindfulness practice and go right back to the beginning of it. Think about what was happening in your personal, professional, and relational lives. Think about the broader community and social context. Consider who you were at the time, which is, or was probably different than you are right now.”

• Be Kinder to Yourself (14:00): Jeremiah follows up:  “Being able to give hugs to that younger version of ourselves, Being easier on the younger versions of ourselves I think is a really helpful part of the process.”

• The Beginning of the Podcast (19:00): Jeremiah shares: “ the podcast also happened in the first two years of our relationship. The first two years of a relationship is about bonding. Discovering interests and ethics that you have in common … I think Sexvangelicals became a way for us to come together and discuss a first draft of what happened to us. We trauma bonded with people other than us.”

• Reflection (24:00): Julia shares: “ Probably in this transition process, in this goodbye process, you are probably reflecting on what you learned in the context of your partnership or some other relationship, right? … I learned a lot about working together with you.”

• Growing & The “Fuck You” Phase (28:00): Julia discusses, “ The fuck you transition of deconstruction isn't as relationally helpful.  We primarily decided to take off the first 50 episodes because we wanted this to have a more cohesive, professional structure, and we recognized that those episodes didn't actually reflect the maturity that we gained in the years following. And I think that talking about this is actually the most vulnerable area of growth for me to name. We weren't ready emotionally and we weren't ready practically. And that's a hard pill to swallow when that occurs in a public context.”

• Hustle Culture (35:00): Jeremiah says, “ As an entrepreneur, there's no way of fully escaping hustle culture. But I think I fell into the trap of believing that in order to be taken seriously as an entrepreneur than 21st century, you have to develop a lot of content and produce it in a particular consistent manner, as opposed to saying it takes a few years for a business owner or owners to figure out what specifically it is that they're offering, and then to develop procedural practices and then create and market specific products for the public.”

• Ms. Frizzle (40:00): Julia shares some beloved words: “ Quote, one of my favorite fictional characters. Take chances, make mistakes, get messy.”

• Taking Chances (43:00): Julia adds: “ What I can say about what we did well is that we took a chance and yeah, we did something scary and we did something new. And while there is so much that I wish we had done differently, I think it's important to note for so many of your goodbye transitions.”

• Highlight of the Work (45:00): Jeremiah notes, “ This might sound a little narcissistic as well, but I don't think that there are many people in the religious trauma or post evangelical space who are asking some of the questions that we are.”

• Check In with Each Other (54:00): Julia says, “ When building something new, create structures in which you can check in with your partner or partners throughout the process and be open to the feedback from your partner?”