375: Hiring Staff for What Matters Most
Getting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Release Date: 08/12/2025
Getting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Guest Hurley Winkler is a writer and editor from Jacksonville, FL. Her newsletter, “Lonely Victories,” is among the top Substack publications in the Literature category. She teaches creative writing at Flagler College. Summary In this episode, I speak with writer and teacher Hurley Winkler about journaling, creative practice, and building a sustainable writing life. Hurley traces her path to writing back to childhood anxiety and early journaling inspired by Harriet the Spy, and describes how writing eventually became her preferred independent art form after early interests in...
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Guest Heather Lende is the author of four books centered on her life in Haines, Alaska: If You Lived Here, I’d Know Your Name, Take Good Care of the Garden and the Dogs, Find the Good: Life Lessons from a Small-town Obituary Writer, and, most recently, Of Bears and Ballots, about her adventures in local politics. Heather served as Alaska Writer Laureate from 2021-2023, has an honorary Ph.D in Humane Letters from the University of Alaska, Anchorage, and is the recipient of the Middlebury College Alumni Award. Summary In this, my 400th episode, I sit down with writer Heather Lende...
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Guest Adam Bronstein grew up exploring the Adirondack Mountains of upstate New York and knew from a young age that he wanted to work to protect wild places. He received a BS from SUNY College of Environmental Science & Forestry in Environmental Studies and Geographic Information Technologies. Adam first joined the Western Watershed Project staff in 2020. Outside his capacity at WWP, Adam hosts and produces Our Public Lands podcast, advocates for Wilderness, and is a dedicated public lands hunter and angler—always looking for that elusive cow-free habitat. Summary In...
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Guest April Obersteller is a people-centered leader, operator, and founder of And Not Or, a community and leadership platform built around the belief that we don’t have to choose. She has led customer and employee experience across iconic consumer brands, including YETI and woom, and now leads community and experience at Recess. April also hosts The AND Podcast, where she shares real conversations about leadership, growth, and humanity. Summary In this episode, Jeff talks with April Obersteller, co-founder and CEO of And, about what it really takes to build companies that succeed by...
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Guest Hal Herring is a long-time contributing editor and writer at Field and Stream magazine and has covered conservation and the environment for national and international publications for almost thirty years. His work was featured in the Patagonia documentary Public Trust in 2020, and he is at work on a book about the American public lands. Summary In this episode of Getting Unstuck: Cultivating Curiosity, Jeff speaks with writer and public-lands advocate Hal H. about renewed political efforts to weaken protections for America’s public lands. The conversation centers on three major...
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Summary In this episode, Cultivating Curiosity host Jeff Ikler reflects on his love of year-end “Best Books” lists and why reading sits at the heart of his podcast and personal life. He welcomes lists from institutions like The New York Times and the New York Public Library, seeing them as both a defense against book banning and a source of discovery, connection, and generosity. For Ikler, books spark curiosity, deepen empathy, and create bonds—whether through gifting or thoughtful conversation with authors. He also underscores podcast hosts' responsibility to read their guests’ work...
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Guests Why are school children more anxious, aggressive, and shut down than ever before? We first heard answers from educators Tamara Neufeld Strijack and Hannah Beach in April 2020. Hannah takes us up to the present in this update episode. Tamara is the academic dean of the Neufeld Institute, where she develops and delivers courses and workshops that support parents, teachers, and helping professionals around the world in making sense of children through developmental science. Tamara works as a registered clinical counsellor, parent consultant, and sessional instructor for several...
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Update: If you listened to last week’s podcast, you know that today’s episode about the historic Apollo 8 mission to the moon in late December 1968 was one of my most popular of 2024. The lessons from that mission, which I discussed in episode 344, are just as important, if not more so, today in episode 394. An artist’s rendering of Apollo 8 as it photographs “Earthrise.” Summary In this episode, I reflect on the Apollo 8 mission to the moon in late December 1968 and the turbulent year that preceded it. The episode highlights enduring lessons on inequality,...
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Summary This coming February, will start its eighth year. My goal with this podcast is to host guests who will make us think, “I didn’t know anything about that,” or “That’s something I hadn’t considered,” or “I might be able to apply that to some aspect of my life.” In each case, “that” refers to the topic being discussed. And the topics will vary widely. Unlike other shows that focus on a single topic, such as politics, entertainment, or leadership, Getting Untuck’s focus is eclectic. This year, I offered episodes about how to inspire student curiosity, the healing...
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Guest Leah Ellis is a mom of four, writer, wedding officiant, Girl Scout leader, and founder of The Society of Child Entrepreneurs. Her life blends family, creativity, and leadership, from giggling over business plans at the breakfast table to mentoring kids through hands-on entrepreneurship. With her children as her compass, Leah is reminded daily that growth is messy, love is work, and compassion changes everything. Through SoCE, Nerdy Nuptials ICT, and Girl Scouts, she creates spaces where kids, couples, and communities are empowered to lead with authenticity. Leah believes in making room...
info_outlineToday on Getting Unstuck—Cultivating Curiosity
One of the many problems that plague U.S. businesses, not-for-profits, and our U.S. education system is when and how to change. For many institutions, the process can look like fruit-of-the-month club: they try “this” until a new “this” comes along. A new something – process, way of thinking, way of leading etc. – is seen as the answer to all organizational ills . . . until a new, shinier something takes its place. As a result, employees are whipped-sawed by an unending stream of changes, and sustained results are rarely achieved.
One who wrote at length about this problem was Jim Collins in his landmark book, Good to Great. There he looked at what great performing organizations do that good performing organizations typically don’t do. One of the habits that great organizations instinctively employ is something Collins called “the flywheel” – a process involving 4-6 elements with each element impacting / driving the next. The thinking went: “If we do “A,” then “B” will happen, which will cause “C” to happen, which will cause “D” and so on. Each element is a consequence of the element that came before it. As Collins wrote:
“Pushing with great effort, you get the flywheel to inch forward. You keep pushing, and with persistent effort, you get the flywheel to complete on entire turn. You don’t stop. You keep pushing. The flywheel moves a bit fast. Then as some point —breakthrough! The flywheel flies forward with almost unstoppable momentum.”
Guest
The book was written about U.S. business, but the question was quickly asked, “Would this thinking work for not-for-profits and specifically, education?” One educator who was immediately intrigued is Dr. Deb Gustafson. Now retired, at the time of this interview, Deb was the Executive Director of Student Services for the Geary County Unified School District 475 based in Junction City, KS. She is the former principal of Ware Elementary School, and that’s where she started turning a flywheel that still turns today.
Listen for
• What the situation like at Ware Elementary when Deb became principal.
• What it was about Collins’ book that most impacted Deb.
• Why the first practice Deb installed as part of her flywheel – see the illustration – was “select teachers infused with passion.”
• What Deb saw as the ultimate goal – the why, the purpose, the cause – behind what they we’re trying to accomplish at Ware.
• The distinction we draw in the interview around “urgency.” There was “urgency” in needing to do something to resolve the pain that students and teachers are experiencing, but it wasn’t an urgency of pace or timing; it was an urgency around the imperative to take the right action where none had been taken before.
• How Deb saw it as critical to “align, apply and enhance” any new initiatives and practices to the existing ones.
• The impact the flywheel experience had as Deb trained new administrators.
For reflection
At one point in the interview, Deb noted “You just have to get to the root causes of what you need in your environment to sustain performance.” How often does your current organization actually identify root causes or the real problem to be solved?
For more information
Turning the Flywheel by Jim Collins