406: "Attack!" How Do the Complexities of Character and Context Converge to Shape History?
Getting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Release Date: 03/17/2026
Getting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Today on Getting Unstuck Hi, I’m Jeff Ikler, host of the Cultivating Curiosity podcast. This summer, I’m periodically releasing mini-episodes of “Cultivating Curiosity.” In about 10 minutes, I’ll dive deeper into a key point from a previously broadcast evergreen episode. The content in these mini-episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. Summary This mini-episode revisits Jeff Ikler's conversation with Dr. Christian Busch, author of Connect the Dots: The Art and Science of Creating Good Luck, to explore why serendipity is far more than simple luck. Dr....
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Guest Dr. Melissa Hughes is a keynote speaker, author, and Human Potential Alchemist who helps people understand how the brain works so they can work, lead, and live better. With a doctorate in Curriculum & Instruction and decades of experience translating neuroscience into practical strategies, Melissa has become a trusted voice for organizations looking to improve leadership, communication, performance, and culture. She is the creator of the Cognitive Blueprint™, a neuroscience-based assessment that reveals how your brain naturally processes information, makes decisions, solves...
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The story behind this episode The story I relate in this episode emerged when, in September 2019, I walked some of the World War I battlefields in Belgium and France with my guide, Iain McHenry. As we walked along where a trench had existed during the war, Iain told me the story of an archaeological dig that recovered and eventually identified the remains of a British soldier who was killed there in November 1914 in a German mortar attack. The story has stayed with me because of how the soldier, Richard Lancaster, was finally identified and because there are literally thousands of other...
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Today on Getting Unstuck Hi, I’m Jeff Ikler, host of the Cultivating Curiosity podcast. This summer, I’m periodically releasing mini-episodes of “Cultivating Curiosity.” In about 10 minutes, I’ll dive deeper into a key point from a previously broadcast evergreen episode. The content in these mini-episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. At some point during the summer of 2019, I was walking in our nearby forest preserve, listening to a podcast with Tim Ferriss in conversation with Seth Godin. Tim Ferriss always asks his guests during the wrap-up what...
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Guest JoAnne Duncan has had a varied career, from Alaskan fly-fishing guide to elementary teacher and principal, always focused on valuing the strengths of every student and staff member. Though she’s stepped away from her career in public education, she continues to learn, grow, and inspire others. A lifelong learner, she finds joy and insight outdoors, exploring nature and discovering new ideas, always growing, always learning, and always curious. Summary In Part 1 of this episode, JoAnne reflected on her unconventional path into education, her transition into school...
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Guest Elizabeth Weingarten is a journalist and applied behavioral scientist who works at the intersection of science and storytelling. A graduate of Northwestern University’s Medill School of Journalism, she has worked on the editorial staffs of The Atlantic, Slate, and Qatar Today, and was Managing Editor of Behavioral Scientist. Her writing has appeared in publications including The Atlantic, Slate, CNN, The Financial Times, Quartz, Harvard Business Review, and Time. She has led research programs at the think tank New America, the consultancy ideas42, and at tech companies Torch and...
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Hi, I’m Jeff Ikler, host of the Cultivating Curiosity podcast. This summer, I’m periodically releasing mini-episodes of “Cultivating Curiosity.” In about 10 minutes, I’ll dive deeper into a key point from a previously broadcast evergreen episode. The content in these mini-episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. This week’s mini-episode comes from a May 2023 interview with Dr. Alan Stern. Today, Dr. Stern is an aerospace executive and remains a planetary scientist. In 2015, he was the Principal Investigator on the historic New Horizons mission to Pluto....
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Hi, I’m Jeff Ikler, host of the Getting Unstuck - Cultivating Curiosity podcast. This summer, I’m periodically releasing mini-episodes that, in under 10 minutes, dive into an evergreen idea from a previously broadcast episode. The content in these mini episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. This week’s episode was inspired by a conversation with educator Dr. Deb Gustafson in December 2019, when she explained how, as a principal, she had applied Jim Collins’ flywheel principle from Good to Great in her elementary school. The idea The flywheel is an...
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Guest Rich Gassen has worked at UW-Madison for over 15 years as Production Manager and, more recently, as Director at Digital Publishing and Printing Services. He focuses on empowerment, autonomy, and process improvements with his team. His work mantra has always been “Show Up and Participate,” which continues to guide him in his lifelong learning. He also leads a community of practice for supervisors at UW-Madison, focusing on training and development. Summary In this episode, Rich discusses his leadership journey and the principles that guide his work. Drawing on more than 35 years in...
info_outlineGetting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity
Hi, I’m Jeff Ikler, host of the Cultivating Curiosity podcast. It’s summer, and our thoughts naturally turn to making the most of longer days and warmer weather. We’re desperate to be outside. With that in mind, I’m periodically releasing mini episodes of “Cultivating Curiosity.” In about 10 minutes, I’ll dive deeper into a key point from a previously broadcast evergreen episode. The content in these mini episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. The idea This week’s mini episode was inspired by a July 2021 interview with Dr. Melissa “Missie”...
info_outlineGuest
Bill Whiteside abandoned a 30-year career in software sales to devote his time to a story that he started researching to keep his mind engaged during his business travels. Intrigued by a little-known incident from early in Winston Churchill’s first term as Britain’s Prime Minister, this diversion evolved into an obsession as he dug into the story of a controversial and catastrophic clash between the British and French Navies from multiple angles. The more he learned, the more it became a book he just had to write. That book, Operation Catapult: Winston Churchill and the British Attack on the French Navy at Mers-el-Kébir, was published by the U.S. Naval Institute Press in March 2026.
Summary
In this episode, Jeff talks with author Bill Whiteside about his new book, Operation Catapult, which describes a little-known but dramatic episode early in World War II. Whiteside explains that after France fell to Germany in May 1940, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill feared that the powerful French fleet might fall into Nazi hands. Determined to prevent this strategic disaster, Churchill ordered the British Navy to confront the French fleet anchored at Mers-el-Kébir in Algeria. When negotiations failed, British ships opened fire on their former allies, killing nearly 1,300 French sailors.
Whiteside describes how the story captivated him because it reveals the moral complexity and human drama behind major historical decisions. Rather than presenting events as simple or inevitable, his research shows how Churchill agonized over the decision, how British officers struggled with the prospect of attacking friends, and how individual personalities shaped the outcome. Whiteside emphasizes that history becomes compelling when readers see historical figures as people—leaders balancing duty, fear, loyalty, and uncertainty in moments of crisis.
The conversation also explores Whiteside’s research process as a non-professional historian. Drawing on archives in the U.K. and California, original letters, and memoirs, he reconstructed the perspectives of both British and French participants. Influenced by narrative historians like Laura Hillenbrand and Rick Atkinson, Whiteside has crafted a fast-moving, character-driven account.
Ultimately, the book explores leadership under extreme pressure and invites readers to reconsider a controversial decision that may have helped ensure Britain’s survival during one of the war’s most vulnerable moments.
The Essential Point
Whiteside argues that history becomes truly meaningful when we move beyond headlines and dates to understand the human decisions, personalities, and moral dilemmas that shape events.
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Operation Catapult: Winston Churchill and the British Attack on the French Navy at Mers-el-Kébir