Do Salespeople Need FBI Hostage Negotiation Skills?
Sales Today
In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by Sebastian Hidalgo, co-founder of DURINDAL and creator of the SWAT method - a sales framework influenced by hostage negotiation principles. Fred admits he’s often sceptical when crisis negotiation gets blended with commercial sales, so this becomes a lively, grounded conversation: what genuinely transfers, what doesn’t, and how to use “hostage” techniques ethically to improve trust, discovery, and positioning. What you’ll hear in this episode Sebastian’s unusual origin story: becoming...
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Surprisingly simple ways to use AI in sales
Sales Today
In this episode, Fred is joined by Tom Ridley, an AI sales coach, for a refreshingly grounded conversation about AI in sales. Instead of racing through a list of tools, Tom makes a different point: AI isn’t the story - being human is. The real value of generative AI (ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude) is that it removes the admin-heavy work salespeople hate and frees them up to do what matters most: have better conversations, build stronger relationships, and help customers make sense of complex decisions. They explore how to use AI to research accounts, focus on the right...
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Ethical marketing meets ethical selling
Sales Today
In this episode, Fred is joined by Chelsea Burns - marketing psychologist, brand ethicist, and non-manipulative marketer to explore where ethical marketing and ethical selling overlap… and where they can go wrong. Chelsea introduces a practical way to draw the line between persuasion and manipulation: Agency - a person’s genuine ability to choose. From there, the conversation goes deep into real-world examples of questionable tactics, why “FOMO” can backfire, and how the brain evaluates purchases immediately after the transaction. Chelsea also shares her four...
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The secret to faster training and coaching result
Sales Today
In this episode, Fred is joined by John Richardson, Co-Founder and Director of Coaching at My Sales Coach, to explore a key question: how do you get faster, more meaningful results from training and coaching? Their answer is simple but powerful: start with the right assessment. They unpack why great coaches are always assessing (without judging), how the right diagnostics can shorten the path to meaningful improvement, and why revenue alone isn’t a useful starting point for development. John explains how My Sales Coach uses assessments to build coaching plans with focus,...
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Is 'good enough' good enough?
Sales Today
In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by sales thought leader, author, and one of the kindest people in the profession, David Brock. Together, they explore David’s new book “Is Good Enough, Good Enough?” and why it’s not another “do this, do that” sales methodology book. Instead, it focuses on the mindsets and behaviours that separate high performers from those who are simply checking the boxes. With win rates often accepted at 15–20% in many SaaS environments, David challenges the idea that “making the number” should...
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The secret to faster training and coaching result
Sales Today
In this episode, Fred is joined by John Richardson, Co-Founder and Director of Coaching at My Sales Coach, to explore a key question: how do you get faster, more meaningful results from training and coaching? Their answer is simple but powerful: start with the right assessment. They unpack why great coaches are always assessing (without judging), how the right diagnostics can shorten the path to meaningful improvement, and why revenue alone isn’t a useful starting point for development. John explains how My Sales Coach uses assessments to build coaching plans with focus,...
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How to avoid AI killing your communication skills
Sales Today
In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake is joined by communications and speech coach Susie Ashfield, author of Just F**king Say It and a third-time guest on the show. This is an “emergency podcast” sparked by a moment on LinkedIn: Susie posted a video where she stumbled and left it in. No polishing. No AI. No pretending. Because as AI-generated content gets smoother, faster, and more convincing, the thing that makes us stand out is increasingly simple:- being human. Together, Fred and Susie explore what we risk losing when we outsource too...
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What is Selling? (And Has It Changed?)
Sales Today
In the final episode of the Sales Today mini-series, Fred Copestake and James Michael step back to answer a deceptively simple question: Has selling really changed? The answer is both yes - and no. This closing conversation brings together the themes explored across the series and reframes selling not as persuasion or pressure, but as something far more human, thoughtful, and aligned with how buyers actually make decisions today. In this episode, they explore: What has stayed the same in selling - and what has genuinely evolved Why selling has always been about understanding...
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CEMMT vs SaaS and an Ethical Approach
Sales Today
In Episode 4 of the Sales Today mini series, Fred Copestake and James Michael tackle a growing tension in modern selling: the contrast between SaaS-led sales thinking and the realities of selling in CEMMT industries - construction, engineering, manufacturing, mining, and transport. At the heart of the discussion is Fred’s work on Ethical Selling and why ethics isn’t an abstract concept, but a practical, tactical necessity - particularly in complex, long-term, high-consequence sales environments. This episode challenges hype-driven sales narratives and asks a bigger...
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Why Great Sales Conversations Are Built on Process, Not Personality
Sales Today
In Episode 3 in this five part mini series of Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake and James Michael explore a question that challenges another long-held belief in sales: do great sales conversations succeed because of personality - or because of process? This episode looks at how the most effective salespeople consciously select their mode during conversations, switching between listening, questioning, sharing insight, and guiding the discussion - always with the buyer’s outcome in mind. Rather than restricting creativity, process and structure create the space for better thinking,...
info_outlineYou nailed the first step and got the meeting - now what? Most salespeople squander this critical opportunity by running a tired "Discovery Meeting" that serves only them.
Sales differentiation expert and contrarian, Lee Salz, is back as a guest for a third time to expose why the old ways are fundamentally broken and reveal the Consultation Mindset that must replace them.
Based on his new book, The First Meeting Differentiator, Lee shares a hard-hitting, practical framework for success.
Inside this episode, you will learn to kill your ego-centric "discovery" script, understand and actively combat the "Forgetting Curve," and leverage "Empathetic Expertise" to engage emotion (not just logic) in order to drive action.
Lee details the single most important question you must ask at the very end of the meeting to lock in the next steps. If you’re tired of sending information only to be ghosted, this episode is the essential blueprint for creating genuine meaningful value that makes prospects want to partner with you.
In This Episode, We Discuss:
The conversation kicks off with a look at The Necessary Death of Discovery Meetings, revealing exactly why the typical focus on "what I need to ask" and "what I need to tell them" is an egocentric, value-less approach for the prospect.
This leads directly into The Doctor Analogy, showing how shifting to a Consultation Mindset ensures the client gains meaningful value - making the entire interaction worth their time, regardless of whether they ultimately buy your product.
Lee then delivers his Sales Contrarian Manifesto, arguing that "Sales is a numbers game" is the worst advice ever and explaining precisely why you should limit your prospecting to ensure you can personalise every interaction, valuing quality over quantity.
Following this, we look at how to Stop Suffering from the Sales EKG Effect, identifying the danger of believing "you're only as good as your last sale" and outlining the forward-looking focus you must have instead.
Next, Lee dives into the critical strategy of engaging both the Head & Heart through Empathetic Expertise, revealing how even the legal system uses emotion to drive decisions, and sharing a simple method for arousing your client's feelings to ensure the deal doesn't "fizzle out."
This emotional engagement is key to combatting The Forgetting Curve, as Lee explains how to use powerful stories, rather than boring features and benefits, to ensure your client remembers more than six minutes of your hour-long meeting.
As the conversation wraps up, Lee discusses The ONLY acceptable ending to a first meeting, detailing how to confidently close the consultation by asking the partner-focused question: "How did we do today?" and then immediately scheduling the next interaction.
The episode concludes by highlighting the crucial mental shift between the Sales Process vs. Buying Process, an insight that will make your entire career easier and more effective.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Sales Differentiation
02:56 The Importance of the First Meeting
06:05 Challenging Traditional Sales Mindsets
08:53 The Consultation Mindset vs. Discovery Meetings
11:59 Understanding Value in Sales
15:00 Empathetic Expertise in Sales
18:14 The Power of Storytelling in Sales
20:58 Closing the Meeting Effectively
23:59 The Buying Process vs. Sales Process
Links and Resources
Download Chapter 1 (Free!): Get Lee's first chapter of The First Meeting Differentiator: www.firstmeetingbook.com
Download the Tip Sheet (Free!): Grab the guide on 10 Ways to Provide Meaningful Value in your first meeting: www.meaningfulvalue.com
Lee's Website: Learn more about Lee and his work: https://salesarchitects.com
The Book: The First Meeting Differentiator by Lee Salz is available wherever you purchase your books.
Connect with Lee
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leesalz/
Connect with Fred
LinkedIn: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake
Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://bit.ly/SalesTodayPodcast
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