CEMMT vs SaaS and an Ethical Approach
Sales Today
In Episode 4 of the Sales Today mini series, Fred Copestake and James Michael tackle a growing tension in modern selling: the contrast between SaaS-led sales thinking and the realities of selling in CEMMT industries - construction, engineering, manufacturing, mining, and transport. At the heart of the discussion is Fred’s work on Ethical Selling and why ethics isn’t an abstract concept, but a practical, tactical necessity - particularly in complex, long-term, high-consequence sales environments. This episode challenges hype-driven sales narratives and asks a bigger...
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Why Great Sales Conversations Are Built on Process, Not Personality
Sales Today
In Episode 3 in this five part mini series of Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake and James Michael explore a question that challenges another long-held belief in sales: do great sales conversations succeed because of personality - or because of process? This episode looks at how the most effective salespeople consciously select their mode during conversations, switching between listening, questioning, sharing insight, and guiding the discussion - always with the buyer’s outcome in mind. Rather than restricting creativity, process and structure create the space for better thinking,...
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Why “The Gift of the Gab” Is a Myth in Modern Sales
Sales Today
In Episode 2 of the CEMMT Sales Series, Fred Copestake and James Michael challenge one of the most persistent stereotypes in sales: that success comes from being loud, charismatic, and constantly talking. Focusing on technical and specialist industries such as construction, engineering, manufacturing, and logistics, this episode explores why many highly capable professionals feel uncomfortable with selling — and why that discomfort is often rooted in outdated assumptions about what sales really is. In this episode, we explore: Where the “gift of the gab”...
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Why Old Sales Tactics Don’t Work Anymore (And What Does)
Sales Today
In this opening episode of a 5 part mini series of Sales Today, we do things a little differently. Instead of the usual host-led interview, Fred Copestake is in the hot seat as James Michael turns the tables and leads the conversation. Chatting from opposite sides of the world – Fred in the UK and James in Australia – the discussion reflects a wider theme of this episode: sales has been turned upside down. Together, they explore how selling has evolved from persuasion, pressure, and performance theatre into something far more human, ethical, and buyer-led. ...
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Live Review: 2026 State of Sales Coaching
Sales Today
In this solo episode, host Fred Copestake conducts a live, first-reaction review of the My Sales Coach “State of Sales Coaching in 2026” Report. Fred reads the executive summary, explores the data, and offers unfiltered commentary on what the findings mean for sales leaders, salespeople, and the future of coaching - human and AI. He dives into coaching frequency, quality, barriers, performance impact, the role of AI, who salespeople trust as coaches, and why tenured sellers may be the most underserved group of all. If you want to deepen your coaching culture,...
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The Unnatural Acts of Selling: How Top Performers Do What Others Won’t
Sales Today
In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast I am joined by Gerry Hill - widely regarded as a “pipeline savant” to unpack the uncomfortable truths behind pipeline health, buyer-centricity, conversational skills, and what truly separates top performers from everyone else. Together we explore why good intentions often crumble under commercial pressure, how weak pipelines drive unethical behaviour, and why modern sellers struggle with basic conversational competence. Gerry also shares practical guidance for sellers stuck in a “crushing low,” as well as his thoughts on...
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Ethical Selling: A Practical Framework in 10 Minutes
Sales Today
Is it possible to make every sales interaction a win for all parties involved? On today’s solo episode of Sales Today I address the conventional sales dynamic with a bold exploration of ethical selling. Discover how a win-win-win scenario not only benefits the customer and the company but also leaves the salesperson’s conscience clear. The conversation tackles the intriguing Goldilocks dilemma in sales - striking the perfect balance between being too aggressive or too passive. I break down the ETHICAL framework, offering tactical approaches such as...
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From Texting to Talking Sales Training for Gen Z
Sales Today
What if the reluctance to pick up the phone is the key to unlocking a new sales strategy? In this weeks episode we address communication preferences of Gen Z sales professionals, highlighting the need for empathy and understanding from seasoned sales managers. With insights from Janet Efero, an award-winning sales trainer, we explore the generational shift in communication styles and its impact on sales. This episode is packed with strategies to bridge the gap between traditional sales skills and modern digital communication tools, equipping young...
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Non-commission sales is the future!
Sales Today
What if transforming your sales approach could turn prospects into loyal clients without the pressure of chasing commissions? Discover the groundbreaking sales philosophy at Esri, where Jay Hoffman, Key Account Manager, unveils a refreshing model that prioritises relationship-building and genuine problem-solving. Forget the transactional mindset; we explore how adopting a consultative approach can turn sales professionals into trusted advisors who not only enhance customer relationships but also foster long-term trust. Learn how Esri's mapping solutions...
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Anatomy of a sales conversation - Procurement Special
Sales Today
This live recording of Sales Today: Procurement Special goes back to fundamentals as Fred Copestake breaks down the anatomy of a great sales conversation so procurement professionals can spot the good ones, steer the wobbly ones, and borrow the best bits for their own internal selling. With 25+ years in the field, three books (including Ethical Selling), and over 10,000 salespeople trained across 38 countries, Fred shares a practical, step-by-step structure you can use immediately - whether you’re evaluating a supplier’s approach or building support for your own initiatives. In this...
info_outlineIn Episode 4 of the Sales Today mini series, Fred Copestake and James Michael tackle a growing tension in modern selling: the contrast between SaaS-led sales thinking and the realities of selling in CEMMT industries - construction, engineering, manufacturing, mining, and transport.
At the heart of the discussion is Fred’s work on Ethical Selling and why ethics isn’t an abstract concept, but a practical, tactical necessity - particularly in complex, long-term, high-consequence sales environments.
This episode challenges hype-driven sales narratives and asks a bigger question: are we optimising sales processes for speed and scale, or for trust and outcomes?
In this episode, they explore:
- Why Fred felt compelled to write Ethical Selling - and why the timing mattered
- How ethics fits alongside existing sales frameworks rather than replacing them
- Why values, alignment, and conscience directly affect sales performance
- The difference between selling software and selling solutions that must last decades
- Where SaaS sales thinking adds value - and where it can fall short
- The rise of SDRs, AEs, and sales jargon - and how it lands in traditional industries
- Why ethical selling must be practical, tactical, and usable tomorrow
- The importance of ownership, continuity, and trust in CEMMT sales cycles
Key insight
Ethical selling isn’t about being “nice”.
And it isn’t about abstract principles.
It’s about being aligned, acting with intent, and selling in a way that creates value for the buyer, the business, and the salesperson.
When ethics are practical and embedded into how sales is done, trust increases — and performance follows.
Why this matters in CEMMT sales
In CEMMT environments, sales decisions often involve:
- Long time horizons
- Multiple stakeholders
- Real-world consequences
- Assets that must perform for decades
In these contexts, fast, fragmented, or overly mechanised sales approaches can undermine trust.
Ethical, end-to-end ownership of the sales process isn’t old-fashioned.
It’s essential.
About the guests
Fred Copestake
Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches.
James Michael
Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability.
Connect with James
· LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/
· Website: www.justifiedtalent.com
Part of the Sales Today - CEMMT Sales Series
This is Episode 4 of a 5-part Sales Today mini-series, exploring how sales must evolve to reflect buyer behaviour, ethical expectations, and industry realities.
Subscribe to Sales Today to catch the final episode in the series.
Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1or4nrGzOOs
Watch Fred’s FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers
Useful resources
- Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free
Check how well your sales approach fits today’s buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/