Why Great Sales Conversations Are Built on Process, Not Personality
Release Date: 12/30/2025
CEMMT vs SaaS and an Ethical Approach
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In Episode 4 of the Sales Today mini series, Fred Copestake and James Michael tackle a growing tension in modern selling: the contrast between SaaS-led sales thinking and the realities of selling in CEMMT industries - construction, engineering, manufacturing, mining, and transport. At the heart of the discussion is Fred’s work on Ethical Selling and why ethics isn’t an abstract concept, but a practical, tactical necessity - particularly in complex, long-term, high-consequence sales environments. This episode challenges hype-driven sales narratives and asks a bigger...
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Why Great Sales Conversations Are Built on Process, Not Personality
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In Episode 3 in this five part mini series of Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake and James Michael explore a question that challenges another long-held belief in sales: do great sales conversations succeed because of personality - or because of process? This episode looks at how the most effective salespeople consciously select their mode during conversations, switching between listening, questioning, sharing insight, and guiding the discussion - always with the buyer’s outcome in mind. Rather than restricting creativity, process and structure create the space for better thinking,...
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Why “The Gift of the Gab” Is a Myth in Modern Sales
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In Episode 2 of the CEMMT Sales Series, Fred Copestake and James Michael challenge one of the most persistent stereotypes in sales: that success comes from being loud, charismatic, and constantly talking. Focusing on technical and specialist industries such as construction, engineering, manufacturing, and logistics, this episode explores why many highly capable professionals feel uncomfortable with selling — and why that discomfort is often rooted in outdated assumptions about what sales really is. In this episode, we explore: Where the “gift of the gab”...
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In this opening episode of a 5 part mini series of Sales Today, we do things a little differently. Instead of the usual host-led interview, Fred Copestake is in the hot seat as James Michael turns the tables and leads the conversation. Chatting from opposite sides of the world – Fred in the UK and James in Australia – the discussion reflects a wider theme of this episode: sales has been turned upside down. Together, they explore how selling has evolved from persuasion, pressure, and performance theatre into something far more human, ethical, and buyer-led. ...
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Live Review: 2026 State of Sales Coaching
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In this solo episode, host Fred Copestake conducts a live, first-reaction review of the My Sales Coach “State of Sales Coaching in 2026” Report. Fred reads the executive summary, explores the data, and offers unfiltered commentary on what the findings mean for sales leaders, salespeople, and the future of coaching - human and AI. He dives into coaching frequency, quality, barriers, performance impact, the role of AI, who salespeople trust as coaches, and why tenured sellers may be the most underserved group of all. If you want to deepen your coaching culture,...
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In this episode of The Sales Today Podcast I am joined by Gerry Hill - widely regarded as a “pipeline savant” to unpack the uncomfortable truths behind pipeline health, buyer-centricity, conversational skills, and what truly separates top performers from everyone else. Together we explore why good intentions often crumble under commercial pressure, how weak pipelines drive unethical behaviour, and why modern sellers struggle with basic conversational competence. Gerry also shares practical guidance for sellers stuck in a “crushing low,” as well as his thoughts on...
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Ethical Selling: A Practical Framework in 10 Minutes
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Is it possible to make every sales interaction a win for all parties involved? On today’s solo episode of Sales Today I address the conventional sales dynamic with a bold exploration of ethical selling. Discover how a win-win-win scenario not only benefits the customer and the company but also leaves the salesperson’s conscience clear. The conversation tackles the intriguing Goldilocks dilemma in sales - striking the perfect balance between being too aggressive or too passive. I break down the ETHICAL framework, offering tactical approaches such as...
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From Texting to Talking Sales Training for Gen Z
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What if the reluctance to pick up the phone is the key to unlocking a new sales strategy? In this weeks episode we address communication preferences of Gen Z sales professionals, highlighting the need for empathy and understanding from seasoned sales managers. With insights from Janet Efero, an award-winning sales trainer, we explore the generational shift in communication styles and its impact on sales. This episode is packed with strategies to bridge the gap between traditional sales skills and modern digital communication tools, equipping young...
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Anatomy of a sales conversation - Procurement Special
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This live recording of Sales Today: Procurement Special goes back to fundamentals as Fred Copestake breaks down the anatomy of a great sales conversation so procurement professionals can spot the good ones, steer the wobbly ones, and borrow the best bits for their own internal selling. With 25+ years in the field, three books (including Ethical Selling), and over 10,000 salespeople trained across 38 countries, Fred shares a practical, step-by-step structure you can use immediately - whether you’re evaluating a supplier’s approach or building support for your own initiatives. In this...
info_outlineIn Episode 3 in this five part mini series of Sales Today Podcast, Fred Copestake and James Michael explore a question that challenges another long-held belief in sales: do great sales conversations succeed because of personality - or because of process?
This episode looks at how the most effective salespeople consciously select their mode during conversations, switching between listening, questioning, sharing insight, and guiding the discussion - always with the buyer’s outcome in mind.
Rather than restricting creativity, process and structure create the space for better thinking, deeper understanding, and more human conversations.
In this episode, they explore:
- Why the ability to “select the mode” matters more than personal style
- The principle of seek first to understand, then to be understood — and why it’s more relevant than ever
- How process gives permission to listen before presenting
- Why modern sales conversations must earn the right to ask questions
- The role of hypotheses and insight in opening meaningful dialogue
- How frameworks reduce cognitive load and free salespeople to focus on the buyer
- The balance between structure and creativity in complex B2B sales
Key insight
Great sales conversations aren’t improvised.
They are guided by process, supported by structure, and brought to life through human judgement.
Process doesn’t turn salespeople into robots.
It removes uncertainty, so attention can stay where it belongs — on the customer.
Why this matters today
Buyers are busy, informed, and often sceptical of traditional sales behaviour.
Structure helps salespeople:
- Know when to listen and when to speak
- Lead with insight rather than interrogation
- Create clarity instead of adding noise
In complex sales environments, process isn’t a constraint.
It’s a competitive advantage.
About the guests
Fred Copestake
Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches.
James Michael
Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability.
Connect with James
· LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/
· Website: www.justifiedtalent.com
Part of the Sales Today - CEMMT Sales Series
This is Episode 3 of a 5-part series exploring how selling must evolve to reflect how buyers think, decide, and behave today.
Subscribe to Sales Today to continue the journey.
Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake
Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/5F3NyWR1tEI
Watch Fred’s FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers
Useful resources
- Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free
Check how well your sales approach fits today’s buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/