Redemptive Living Radio

Looking for hope and redemption after sexual betrayal? Then this is the podcast for you! We’re Shelley and Jason Martinkus, authors of four books, including Worthy of Her Trust and we’ve been there. We’re nearly two decades into our own recovery work, and have dedicated our lives to helping other men, wives and marriages on the journey toward wholeness. With candor, vulnerability and authenticity we want to walk with you, too! Tune in as we address the highs and lows, the hard questions and the challenges couples face as they pursue redemptive living.

#98: The 90/10 Principle 05/09/2025

#98: The 90/10 Principle The 90/10 principle simply means that 90% of the work of relational rebuilding is a husband’s responsibility post betrayal (+ 100% of a husband’s personal work). That 90% means going first, leading the process, holding the weight of the brokenness in the relationship, engaging, initiating, following through, amending, living forgivable and working on being trustworthy. The 10% that is a wife’s work in the beginning is simply showing up and being a willing participant in the process, grieving, watching, waiting, navigating boundaries and needs, and finding a sense of security. That she has 10% isn’t suggesting that she’s got it easy; quite the opposite, her 10% is really hard. Where things get wonky (especially in the early work) is when we move beyond focusing on a hubands personal work and relational rebuilding work, and shine the spotlight on a wife’s personal work. Shelley acknowledges that we all have work to do to grow and change, but the focus should not be on a wife’s personal work in the post-betrayal dynamic. Ideally that happens later, after a husband has paved the way. Myth: There’s infidelity in that relationship, so that relationship must be broken. Truth: There’s infidelity in that relationship, so there must be a broken person in that relationship. A broken relationship has ZERO bearing on infidelity. Bottom line for Jason: God’s not calling me to call you to your work. Masterclasses for men for June include and . Follow the links to sign up! We will be planning the next RLW Retreat soon. if you want to be the first to know the dates and location for the next one (hopefully for this Fall!). We are hoping to do the next Empowered Boundary class for women this summer. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/36514950

#97: His Processing - Personal Not Private 05/03/2025

#97: His Processing - Personal Not Private As I listen to the first part of this episode, I am so thankful we aren’t where we were five months ago with our little puppy. I will say - we are still considering getting rid of him because while he is much easier for us than he was five months ago, he is still a LOT. I was giggling with how I was pronouncing words like diarrhea and nope. Don’t mind me! In this episode, we wanted to talk about this concept that his recovery, and more specifically his processing is personal but not private. Jason talks about some men are told that certain things shouldn’t be shared - whether it’s what he is processing in between sessions, what he shared in groups, with his therapist, etc. Since the acting out was in private, if we also do our recoveries in private - then we are perpetuating one of the issues that got him here in the first place: living life in a container. Here are some suggestions for men that are doing some decent recovery work: - Let her have a choice as to if she wants to hear what he is processing. - She can’t be the container he always dumps into - there is a balance between dumping and working toward vulnerable intimacy. It’s something we learn as we go and Jason speaks to this in the episode. - Awareness of “for” versus “at” when it comes to her emotions after he shares - if he is mad at her, it might show his deeper motivation was not from a place of being fully known (versus from a place of well, she told me she wanted to know what I was processing…). - Awareness of data versus experience when it comes to what he shares - we are looking for intimacy and vulnerability and his experience of himself in what he shares, not just the logistics of the day. - Awareness that when he comes to her to share - it’s a LOT for her - take it from me. So tenderness is critical. For those men that insist on needing privacy - Jason, being who Jason is and seeing the gray says - "okay, great, if you need this for a season". I then say: I think it needs to be less than a season. More like here and there but always with the goal of coming back to being fully known and without containment. Bottom line: His demand for privacy is a barrier to the relational recovery. The end. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Masterclasses for men for June include and . Follow the links to sign up! We will be planning the next RLW Retreat soon. if you want to be the first to know the dates and location for the next one (hopefully for this Fall!). The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April. if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. We are hoping to do the next Empowered Boundary class for women this summer. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/36416970

#96: Lying - Part 2 04/25/2025

#96: Lying - Part 2 We are back with part 2 of the lying episode. We jump in to talking about what helped Jason stop lying: #1 - Brute force effort to be honest as well as brute force effort to fight the addictive voice inside of him. (Jason said he would argue internally with the man he was fighting to become versus the old, addictive self pulling him back.) #2 - He came to a place of determination that he could handle the fall out. Out of this shift came one of Jason’s core recovery mantra’s: I’d rather lose you than lie to you. I chime in (and possibly take the convo in a different direction) and I talk about how when we lie - we are chipping away at our sense of selves. We become fragmented and disintegrated. Radical honesty is one of the ways we move toward integration and wholeness. Jason’s suggestions for men that are in the thick of recovery and need to stop lying: Document what the voices in your head tell you (about why you shouldn’t tell the truth) so that you know what you will be brute force fight against. Being accountable with others for telling the truth. Honesty amends work which will help him come to terms with the gravity of how he has lived. Identity work. We then talk about what she should expect - and I start by saying: we should expect him to NOT lie. You will hear me grappling with: should I have been a bit more gracious in the beginning? (Because I truly thought: what in the world is WRONG with him and please just STOP.) Expect him to not lie. Expect speedy self-regulation on his part and try to see the progress in him (if there indeed is progress). Expect that there is a journey that he will have to go through in order to see ALL the ways he has lied. We land the plane talking about polygraphs - which probably (really) needs to be a whole episode in and of itself. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May. if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women’s Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April. if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/36316220

#95: Lying - Part 1 04/18/2025

#95: Lying - Part 1 We are starting to come to the final bend in the road for Season #7, before we take a break. In this episode - we talk about lying - something that comes up a lot with the gals I connect with on Instagram as well as one of the things that was posted more than once in the question box on IG when I asked for podcast suggestions. What I always say is: women are willing to do the excruciating work of healing from betrayal - but the lying is what becomes an impasse. Here is what we are going to walk through: 1 - What lying looked like for Jason growing up. 2 - Why we lie. 3 - What should she expect. 4 - Suggestions for men. As Jason spoke about what lying looked like growing up - he made a fascinating statement: "I valued honesty but deceived myself when dishonesty served me.” Essentially - he was lying to himself which is such a big problem that liars deal with. He also said - “The more deeply entrenched he was in his lying, the more he had to justify it in real life.” Listening back to this episode gave me a deep feeling of unease with how sinister lying really is and how it corrupts us. So why do we lie? Bottom line: it’s self-protective in an unhealthy way and its intimacy aversion at its finest. Jason also mentions that some of the why behind his lying was to protect me. I didn’t say this in the episode but as I listen to the replay - I don’t love what Jason is saying here - I realize he said: this isn’t a "feather in the cap" sort of thing - which I appreciate - but goodness, I just can’t get behind him lying to protect me… We will be back next week with part 2 of lying. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May. if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women’s Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April. if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/36222765

#94: A Story of Fortitude - Part Two 04/11/2025

#94: A Story of Fortitude - Part Two Hey Guys - We are so grateful for Emma’s willingness to share her story. This is part 2. SO much richness in this episode - from Thomas’s brokenness and guttural crying to Emma’s vulnerability to the 2nd disclosure and Emma’s awareness of having to move the wall around her heart accordingly. To Thomas’s ultimate willingness and of course - as mentioned in the last show notes: Emma’s fortitude and not accepting less. Emma references a verse that Jason shared with her from Isaiah - hope to the hopeless. She is referring to where it says - “but those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength.” Emma then shares this: Thomas is the biggest miracle I have EVER seen. And I truly believe THIS is what we need to see post-betrayal. This illuminates the wholesale change that each of us needs to see in him. And that IS possible, as their story reflects. My hope for each of you listening is that you will see that God is STILL in the business of doing miracles. While we can NOT force anyone to change - what we CAN do is be clear about what we are okay with and not okay with. We can stand strong and keep the bar high. And keep our expectations high. Toward the end of the episode, Jason mentions a humble and contrite husband and is referring to - “a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.” Emma’s email is: incase you have any questions or comments for her. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Click here for Thomas’s side of the story: God where are you? and The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May. if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women’s Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April. if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/36097765

#93: A Story of Fortitude - Part One 04/04/2025

#92: Doing the Work Out of the Wounds 03/28/2025

#92: Doing the Work Out of the Wounds On this episode, we wanted to unpack what it looks like for men to do recovery out of the wounds (versus living recovery and not making everything about the wounds). Jason starts with explaining a bit more as to what he means by this: in the addiction (or integrity issue) - men are operating out of the wounds. In other words - the acting out mitigates the pain of the wounds. The same can happen in recovery - the recovery work mitigates (or is driven by) the wounds. I asked Jason to give an example from his own life (from early recovery). For instance - him wanting to be seen (to feel significant) for not acting out today. Bottom line - it’s important for men to ask themselves: are you doing recovery in a way that recovery becomes the thing that mitigates the pain of the wounds VERSUS doing the right thing because it is the right thing. Common symptoms: a wife feels confused him being motivated by feedback a husband finds himself saying things like: why won’t you just see me doing this work? self righteous indignance shrouded in false humility (and isn’t that a mouthful!) ALL that said - what do we do about it? We have to decide we don’t want to live this way anymore (which means we have to acknowledge it as a problem and then also own it as our fault, not anyone else’s). Surrender the demand of the wound. When we surrender / let go - we shift from holding onto who we have been TO leaning against our identity in Jesus. Watch for yourself living out of the wound - we do this by practicing awareness and then asking ourselves (as an example): why am I so defined by if people see my progress or not? What Jason says to men when sharing with them that they can lean on their identity in Jesus (see Psalm 139): You are dearly loved and infinitely valuable. Simply by nature of the fact that the God of the universe imagined you before time. He knit you together in your mother’s womb. And counted every hair on your head. And then decided on a specific day in human history that he would breathe life into you. And by that, you can know that you are not a mistake. We ARE going to drop an infographic into the podcast freebies folder in the next week or so to include what Jason says above about our identity in Jesus. I’ll make sure and post it on IG once it is ready and we can also send out an email if you are a subscriber to the podcast freebies alerting you that it’s ready. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The Spring RLW Retreat is SOLD OUT for May. if you want to be the first to know about the next RLW Women’s Retreat. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April. if you want to be the first to know about the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35911410

#91: Sure Signs of Progress 03/21/2025

#91: Sure Signs of Progress On the heels of talking about some of the markers that may point toward him not living with integrity (while in recovery) - we wanted to talk about three things that show sure signs of progress: The easiest one to see with our eyes is: humility. This can look like fast acknowledgements and apologies for doing something wrong as well as fast acknowledgment of continued hurtful habits. Bonus: moving from the things I AM guilty for to what I am LIKELY guilty for. Second - personal accountability to include: radical ownership for lack of follow-through, fewer excuses, choice versus universe. (What I heard in this was the internal versus the external locus of control - which I think is HUGE.). Jason then added movement from self-righteous indignation to honest self-reflection and curiosity. Third - pursuit of intimacy to include: desire not dread when it comes to talking about things as well as moving toward connections versus transactions (as in - more integrated). Ultimately this all culminates in him leading which is what we as women need to see from him. Not just that but him leading paves the way for us as wives to follow. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Applications are OPEN for but will be closing March 28th. Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April. Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know for the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35812595

#90: Signs He May Be Acting Out 03/14/2025

#90: Signs He May Be Acting Out In this episode, we are talking about signs that he may be acting out. I have a lot of women that wonder (post discovery) - how will I know if he is acting out? What if I miss the signs? This episode is for you - AND - we have one bit of caution: we are NOT trying to insert unnecessary doubt into your mind. What we share here are potential indicators. A collection of things that we have seen as red flags prior to confirmation of his acting out. In addition, you want to look at these as a whole. Okay, here we go - signs he may be acting out: 1 - A man that is only motivated by her and not motivated by himself. 2 - Insisting he will never act out again. 3 - Hiding - not engaging in conversations, evading, avoiding. 4 - Acting In increasing. 5 - Pressuring her to have sex with him. 6 - No interest in her in totality (not just disinterest in sex). 7 - Him straddling the fence / lukewarm. 8 - Lack of wholistic integrity. 9 - Talking about going back to normal. 10 - Reconnecting to your intuition - if you sense something I off, something I off. It may not mean he has relapsed but it does mean something is off. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. See Episodes #25 and #26 - and for more on Acting In. Applications are OPEN for but will be closing soon. Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. The WOHT workshop for men is SOLD OUT for April. Jump on the interest list here if you want to be the first to know for the next WOHT workshop. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35682845

#89: Staying with Dignity 03/07/2025

#89: Staying with Dignity We go back to a listener question, this one from IG where a woman asked: how do I stay with dignity when the acting out was so extensive. I’ll be honest - as I listen to this episode, I think there is SO much more we could have shared and we didn’t. I’m making the choice to push it out but read these show notes for some of my additional thoughts that weren’t included in the audio. Where my mind goes initially is to work at untangling any “judgments” (and I don’t say that word in a negative way, think: opinion) or preconceived notions you have about women (or men) that are betrayed. Jason also mentioned that it’s important to create space between where you land and where others in your life land on leaving versus staying. Oftentimes the opinions we have about things, especially before they are apart of our lives, can influence us more than we realize when we are walking a road we never thought would be ours to walk. Second - for myself, I felt confident in giving Jason a second chance. This also helped me stay with dignity. I mentioned a book by Tim Keller, Forgive, where he really opened my eyes to how important it is to pursuing reconciliation if at all possible. Obviously, it isn’t always possible and there are even some situations where it is okay to not pursue reconciliation. I found what Tim said in his book reassuring of what God hopes for us within relationships which is quite different than the world view of relationships where we just move right on to the next. Both of the things above (the opinions I was holding onto that I needed to release + choosing to give Jason a second chance) were things outside the relationship that I needed to sort through to stay with dignity and peace. That said, I pivot to biblical times and robes and Joseph and honestly, I think I get a little lost so I understand if you do, too. We are essentially grappling with - is dignity dependent on how others treat us? Can it be stripped from us like it was for Joseph way back in Genesis based on others choices? Or is dignity apart of who we are as God’s children (inherent dignity)? Could it be both? Where we landed is here: it’s both/ and. The stripping of dignity happens in relationship and thus building it back up also happens in relationship. AND - there is inherent dignity that we can confidently stand in. Both are important! So a couple of questions for you as you consider if you can stay with dignity (dependent on the relationship): - do you feel you are being honored in the relationship today? - what are you not okay with and is he still doing these things? - do you hold a high bar for how others treat you? - has there been restitution? (And while I didn’t say this on the podcast - I think restitution is huge for women in restoring dignity.) I hope this episode, at a minimum, gets your mind turning as you consider what it looks like to stay with dignity. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Tim Keller’s book entitled Forgive is linked . Registration for the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. . Applications are OPEN for but will be closing soon. Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35571685

#88: Listener Questions 02/28/2025

#88: Listener Questions Hi y’all, you get the B team for the show notes on this episode! Jason here, trying to take up the slack, so these notes will be from my perspective not Shelley’s this time. Listener Question #1 : How do I help my wife be close to me again? With this question, we first have to remember that she may not be ready to be close again. If that’s the case, our efforts to draw her close will feel manipulative and selfish. Second, we have to challenge our motives and scrutinize if this is a) about sex, and b) about us. Once we’ve established that she does in fact want to figure out how to be close again, and that we aren’t focused on sexual and physical intimacy, and we’re not making it about us, here are a few things we have to ask ourselves as husbands: - “am I intentionally creating safety?” - “am I creating intimacy (especially outside of sexual)?” - “how can I communicate with my words what I want to communicate with my body?" Listener Question #2 - 28:15 - What tips do we have for men who can’t see the need for help? This is a painful question. My hunch is it’s from a wife, whose husband refuses help. If you’re in that boat, I’m sorry. We talk about how this is both a spiritual/faith issue, as well as an arrogance and pride issue. A short bible study here...We reference the following verse: Matthew 5:48 - "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” The word perfect in this verse is the greek word, teleios, which means "of mind and character, one who has reached the proper height of virtue”. It is often misquoted to mean sinless perfection, which for me (Jason) meant a feeling of perpetual failure. Blah. I love what Charles Spurgeon (an English pastor in the mid-late 1800s) says of this: "Rise out of ordinary manhood. Get beyond what others might expect of you. Have a high standard. Stretch towards the highest conceivable standard, and be not satisfied till you reach it." We have to be careful that we don’t become tangled up in the barbed wire of our own ego! Here are the key takeaways for both husband and wife: Takeaway for a husband: ask 3 people in your life if they see anything you could work on as a man, a leader, a christian, a husband, etc. and prepare your heart to receive it. Takeaway for her: is him getting help in this specific area an absolute non-negotiable for her? If so, you’ll need to confront the issue head-on. We reference Matthew 18:15-16 - If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ Nothing about this is pleasant or easy. Husbands, please see that if she is backed into this corner it only serves to add insult to the betrayal injury. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Registration for the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. About half the spots are already taken! Don’t miss your spot. . Applications open today for . Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT as of last week. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter +announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35486520

#87: Do you want to be with me? 02/21/2025

#87: Do you want to be with me? In light of some of the episodes we have produced this season - the deeper pain points, the why work episodes - there is a looming question I have wanted to address with Jason, on behalf of all women. And here is the question: Why did you marry me? And what makes me think you want to be with me today? Maybe better put - convince me that you want to be with me. And in all fairness - she also has to answer the same question: do I want to be with him? Jason shared some of the ways he thinks he can show her that he wants to be with her and here they are: 1 - Protecting her from him. (Jason gave the example of his selfishness or his ADD.) 2 - Sacrifice and surrender for her behalf - “I will surrender for her sake.” 3 - Pursuit of and commitment to holistic intimacy. 4 - Surrendering physical intimacy. 5 - Honoring her needs / boundaries. 6 - Saying it: I want to be with you. 7 - Fidelity. 8 - Restitution - considering the question: in what ways am I making your life better? Jason mentioned the quote from John Bowlby - “Security is knowing you exist in someone else’s mind.” I also shared what it looked like for me to get to a place of peace regarding this question. I spoke about having an expectant hope / wait that this would get resolved, and to hold this conundrum out in front of me. I had to decide if I wanted to be with Jason and I also had to watch to see if Jason showed (behaviorally) if he wanted to be with me, even when I was at my worst. Ultimately - it’s so important for her to know and experience the peace of mind that comes with knowing where he is at on this topic. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. Registration for the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. . Applications open today for . Would love for you to consider joining me and my team there. Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT as of last week. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35380700

#86: “Why” Work Part 3 - What Now? 02/14/2025

#86: “Why” Work Part 3 - What Now? In this episode, we talk about the interplay between the “why” work and the “what now” work. The why work is heavy in the beginning of the process, and continues to “hum” in the background - but the "what now" begins to take more and more precedence, or at least that is what we hope for. This wasn’t said in the episode but I want to say - I think the why work oftentimes takes a lot of intentionality (which means time) to take shape. I don’t want to give the impression that the why work is easy - Jason continues to have revelations about his why two decades in! Let’s make sure we understand the difference between the two: the why is the awareness and insight work v the what now is the character work. And that is JUST as important. Jason said early in this episode: the what now work is a new conscious way of living in light of the why. Love. Jason reviews a couple of cautions: "what now" should not be “fix it” oriented. the “why" shouldn’t be a license to not look at the "what now" - and the opposite also applies - the "what now" shouldn’t be a license to not look at the “why”. {And I realize - I am using double negatives here - please ignore!} the "what now" work can veer toward self-sufficiency and we have to remember that we do some of the work and God does the work in us as well. And a point of encouragement - doing the what now work can be empowering! As for practical next steps: consider: where are you stuck in the why? what are the character qualities that you DO want to live into? Bottom line - we don’t want to get so stuck in the why to the point where we aren’t able to move forward into the “what do I do now”. And in that - the “what now” can be empowering to lean into - sometimes, like Jason shared in the final story - it takes a reframe. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. so that you are the first to know about the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - . More details coming soon! Empowered Boundaries is SOLD OUT as of yesterday. to be the first to know when the class opens again for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35281905

#85: His Needs Vs Her Needs 02/07/2025

#85: His Needs Vs Her Needs In today's episode - I wanted to talk to Jason about his needs and her needs in the recovery process in a more informal way (as in - we didn’t do a ton of prep work before hitting the record button). I started off by sharing that I believe her needs are more important in the recovery process due to the covenant bond being broken (so in other words - one of the natural consequences of the sin of betrayal). Jason then chimed in and I really like what he said: his needs aren’t less valid - it’s just that her needs take precedence until there is trust and security restored in the relationship. Again, it’s NOT that his needs aren’t valid at all. It’s that they have to be met in a different way (through community / other safe men) until the security and trust has been restored. Other things we discussed: - His needs being super-sized causes the level of expectation for them to be met to be super-sized which then means the level of disappointment that he has will be super-sized. - Character is built when our needs aren’t being met and yet we are being the best version of ourselves, sitting in unmet needs. - Jason says - men have to scrutinize their needs that they are bringing to the table. This is because in the past his needs were born out of his wounded-ness. (And with that, n faulty expectation that she will be the one to make up for his wounds / needs from childhood.) - Her owning what she needs is an important part of her process - it’s connected to boundaries and will help her move forward in her process and get clarity. - I mentioned that women oftentimes are seen as “needy” in the recovery process and Jason said the inverse applies as well - he also can appear to be “needy” in the recovery process. We explain some of the reasons for this. - I mention the importance of the dynamic where he allows her the space to have needs - and how this is integral in moving the coupleship forward. And yet - how does he do this when he is also walking around with a lot of needs that he *was* meeting in an illegitimate way and now having to sit with unmet needs. So messy. Jason said three things that motivated him: - to meet my need was an opportunity for him to rebuild trust. - My needs were an indication that I was still invested in the relationship. - My needs were an opportunity for him to be less focused on himself. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. so that you are the first to know about the next WOHT workshop for men coming April 4-6, 2025 outside Austin, TX. Empowered Boundaries is coming back SOON. to be the first to know when the class opens for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - . More details coming soon! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35187640

#84: Resentment 01/31/2025

#84: Resentment This week we are talking resentment, iced tea, hand towels and dealing with Shelley’s mic situation. I promise that is going to go away in future episodes - I didn’t realize that I am touching the mic so much!!! I didn’t realize until about a year ago that resentment is a HUGE part of what he struggles with and has to untangle in his recovery process. Specifically resentment toward her. Literally - I had NO clue. Our working definition of resentment: demands equanimity and justice, used as a weapon, rooted in vows unfulfilled - and finally - projected at another person. Ultimately - there is an urge (when feeling resentment) for the other person to make it right. I really appreciated when Jason said: “Resentment is largely connected to our core wounds. The things I resent you most for is most closely tied to the ‘I' that is biggest for me.” If the core wound is powerlessness - there will be resentment where it feels like there is loss of control, if the core wound is insignificance - there will be resentment where he feels unseen, rejected or misunderstood. We divided resentment into two types for our conversation: false resentment and valid resentment. False resentment - a projection of resentment onto her, essentially blaming her for the resentment (or deep disappointment) he is feeling. Three types of false resentment: - I resent me and project it onto you. - I’ve violated one of my vows and I’m projecting resentment onto you. - I’m bargaining and projecting the resentment bubbling up onto you. Valid resentment - legitimate hurt that is not tended to that eventually turns to bitterness and resentment. What’s important is to pause anytime resentment is experienced - and consider what is at the root of it - if it’s valid resentment - we work toward grieving and forgiveness. If it’s false resentment we work toward naming what is under the resentment, holding off on not blaming her, and rather dealing with what is at the root of the false resentment. False resentment perpetuates the powerlessness, insignificance and incompetence that he is experiencing. See how we are now chasing our tails?! Thus - the false resentment is so important to watch for and name. (I feel like we could also call it toxic resentment.) At the very end of the episode - I ask Jason - is resentment typically used as an excuse for the acting out? And Jason said yes. I feel like we opened up another can of worms at the very end. And to bring these show notes full circle - I just want to go organize my hand towels and wonder why in the world it took me 21 years to see how much his resentment plays into the process. Learning with you, every step of the way. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The WOHT workshop for men just outside San Antonio, TX is sold out for January. so that you are the first to know about the next workshop this year. Empowered Boundaries is coming back SOON. to be the first to know when the class opens for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - . More details coming soon! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/35093545

#83: "Why" Work - Part 2 01/24/2025

#83: "Why" Work - Part 2 In this episode we are continuing to talk about his “why”. It will be helpful for you to understand the four different categories that we are talking about as you listen to this episode and download the pdf which will be in the podcast freebie email (see link below). Here are the four categories that go into the why: Life Situations or Contextual Realities - noteworthy life events from your life between the ages of 6-16 (or beyond). Impact or Wounding - the impact based on the life situation - as Jason spoke about the impacts, he used feeling words, the 3I’s, and how he saw himself. Operating Principles / Character Brokenness - The mantras, vows and concepts we develop about how we will do life based on the life situations and the impact / wound. These can be subconscious or conscious. Acting Out - The behaviors done sexually to mitigate pain and shame. All four of these components culminate in the why. A couple of important things to remember: - When doing why work - oftentimes, the third piece - the operating principle is the missing component. This step is really where the why will start to come together. - It’s a process - part Holy Spirit work, part internal work, part feedback from others we trust as we share our story with them. - Ultimately, getting to the why will help her make sense of the senselessness and will help him make sense of the things he has done, in order to live differently from here on out. - None of the why was about her - none of it. Just to be clear - when I said this - what I meant is: none of this was her fault, at all. She is not the why. The end. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The WOHT workshop for men just outside San Antonio, TX is sold out for January. so that you are the first to know about the next workshop later this year. Empowered Boundaries is coming back SOON. to be the first to know when the class opens for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - . More details coming soon! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/34990125

#82: "Why" Work - Part 1 01/17/2025

#82: "Why" Work - Part 1 Alright everyone - here we go - we are officially jumping into Season #7 and we aren’t turning back. We are SO excited to be with you guys - and we are hoping we can be here for a while - we will see how long we can last! We are going to be talking about “Why” work in this episode as well as the next one. This episode is more so laying the foundation for episode #83 where we unpack the roadmap for getting to the why. Jason states several things out of the gate that I think are important: If you don’t understand your why - you are at a substantially higher risk of relapsing. Understanding the why radically changes how your conceptualize what you did and who you are. Sometimes it’s hard to get to the why in certain cases. So it’s not always an easy process. There is also a balance between focusing on the why and doing recovery work. Focusing too much on the why to the point where the recovery work is neglected is not the point here. And now for the foundational things to be aware of and also name for yourself (him) when working toward the why: We start by unpacking the markers or risk factors that we see in men with sexual integrity issues: Abandonment, Shame (difficulty naming it and working through it), Corruption of the Arousal Template, Enmeshment, Abuse. Here are the other things mentioned that it’s important to have an understanding of / appreciation for: #1 - The Three I’s (Shame based self-concepts). #2 - Sexuality becomes THE vehicle that delivers love. #3 - Correlation between his acting out and his core wounds. #4 - The acting out is both an expression and an offset to the shame. #5 - Acting out is about meeting legitimate needs in an illegitimate way. #6 - It comes down to being an intimacy issue - the pursuit of intimacy in a false way versus pursuing intimacy in a God-designed way - mind, heart, body soul. And a word from me (Shelley) - notice that NONE of this has to do with her. NONE of it. The end. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. The WOHT workshop for men just outside San Antonio, TX is sold out for January. so that you are the first to know about the next workshop later this year. Empowered Boundaries is coming back SOON. to be the first to know when the class opens for registration. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - . More details coming soon! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/34891475

#81: The Deeper Pain Points 12/27/2024

#81: The Deeper Pain Points Welcome to the official first episode of Season #7! In this episode we wanted to talk to all of you about how to handle the deeper pain points (of hers) that feel like they will never ever go away. How can he help her handle those deeper pain points and how can she handle those deeper pain points. Jason’s tips for husbands: First - we can’t judge and don’t have a right to judge how deep the well of grief is. When he judges what is in the well, this just further adds to the sludge in the bottom of the well. Second - and point in case - husbands have to remember that they throw things back into the well when they (for example): sigh, don’t give her space to grieve, ask how much longer until she will get past the grief and pain, etc. Third - initiative is key. When he takes initiative and brings it up - he is scooping with a bigger bucket which will only help. Next steps for women pertaining to the deeper pain points: First - make a list of your pain points (the things that keep bubbling up in your heart and mind). Keep in mind, you may need to take a chunk of time to really know what these pain points are - they are usually the thoughts or images that come to mind that make your heart ache over and over and over again. So give yourself a week or two and keep coming back to your journal to jot them down. Then - go back and mark the ones that are the deeper of the pain points, the ones that take your breath away. Most women have a handful of these. Second - use these journal prompts to continue to pump the well and bring clarity to the deeper pain points: #1 - What hurts the most about this particular pain point? (The reason this hurts so much is because…) #2 - Name something you have lost because of this particular hurt. Third - take yourself through the Self Compassion Exercise for each of the deeper pain points - see for that particular exercise. Please note - the goal isn’t to get rid of these pain points but rather to pump the well and to be faithful to honor them, name them, experience them and ultimately move through them. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #7. “Name it to tame it” comes from Dr. Daniel Siegel, the author of Mindsight. He talks about how the limbic system actually Would love for you to join Jason and his team at for men just outside San Antonio, TX from January 24-26, 2025. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Spring 2025 Women's Retreat - . More details coming soon! For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/34628380

Re-release #65: Navigating the Holidays 12/20/2024

Re-release #65: Navigating the Holidays Hey Guys! We wanted to re-release an episode from the past pertaining to navigating the holidays well. The holidays can be really challenging - no matter what - and then throw in Family Systems (see below) + recovery and it’s a LOT. The happy holidays can feel like the not so happy holidays. The back drop of this conversation we are having is rooted in Family Systems Theory by Murray Bowen. Bottom line is in every family - there are unspoken agreements and roles within the family system. For instance, you might be the clown of the family, the peace keeper, the hero… the list goes on and on. When we merge family systems (by going to the in-laws for Thanksgiving, for instance) there will absolutely be an impact to the “system”. We cover five key points to ponder as you consider how Family Systems impacts your holiday experience: 1. Name the role you played in your family of origin as well as who you are now relative to the earlier role you played. 2. Acknowledge your wife’s needs when navigating holiday interactions. 3. When emotions are high, use discernment on what to share and say in front of extended family, AND honor yourself and your boundaries / limits. 4. Front Loading conversations between him and her prior to the holiday gatherings. 5. Daily Downloads, initiated by him, for the two of you every day you are with extended family. 6. And Bonus: for women - identifying anchors (activities you can do to keep yourself grounded) on the daily while with extended family. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us and we are excited to be with you for one more episode this year (fresh and new) and then we will be back in January for Season #7. Click just outside San Antonio, TX from January 24-26, 2025. Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. Subscribe here to the . /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/34556435

Welcome to Season #7 of Redemptive Living Radio! 12/14/2024

#80: The Shame She Experiences 04/19/2024

#80: The Shame She Experiences So here we are! The final episode of Season #6. We start with me needing to loop back to something we discussed in the last episode where Jason said he received feedback from someone saying that sometimes when Jason mentions the past / the timeline, that he is shaming me. While I don’t think he is trying to shame me - I DO experience shame when certain parts of our story is mentioned. I wanted to share a point of clarification that didn’t come to me until after we had stopped recording last week. I’ve wanted to talk about the shame women carry for a while and I thought this would be a good time to dig into it. We start with a working definition of shame - because in some ways, it’s really hard to conceptualize. What I think is important is for us to remember that shame is an indictment on our being. It’s more than a feeling - shame becomes a sense of self. We then talk about permanent shame (thanks to Christa - one of our podcast producers - this is more rightly named chronic shame) versus acute shame. So for those of you that read the show notes - think of this as a bonus! We switch gears and dig into the different facets of recovery and how shame bubbles up in each of these areas and slowly chips away / erodes at our sense of self as women. We talk emotionally, financially, physically, sexually… The conversation continues and we talk about several things including how his acting out isn’t an indictment on her being (although it FEELS that way), naming the shame, recognizing that the antidote to shame is the starting point, bringing it to community (which includes having others dismantle the shame), and ultimately working at putting ourselves back together. I was so grateful for Jason to bring up the reality that her shame necessitates compassion from him. We discussed this before we started recording and I’m so glad Jason looped back to this - it’s so important for men to be WITH her in her shame and pain not separate from it. It will make the biggest of differences. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6, we will be back in the Fall for Season #7! Shelley mentions which might be helpful to review as we pick up the topic of shame again in this podcast episode. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Please join my team at the first ever - in Denver THIS summer. I would so love to meet you at this event! Jason is hosting another Recovery 2.0 workshop for men in Texas in June. You can get all the details . Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . The Spring Boundary Class is FULL. However, we are considering adding an early summer class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/30897308

#79: Holding Her Hostage 04/12/2024

#79: Holding Her Hostage In this episode - we talk about how he can hold her hostage in the recovery process. We discuss this concept, of him holding her hostage, two different ways (or avenues or angles or well, you get the point). The first avenue is how Jason interprets “holding her hostage” which essentially is him holding her hostage for his past wounds and holding her accountable and responsible to heal his past wounds. This certainly was a dynamic that Jason and I dealt with while we were dating as well as while we were married. We end up moving into a conversation about Jason going first in the recovery process and him relinquishing the expectation of me “healing” his wounds and I qualified that by saying it’s not “fully” my responsibility. This takes us down a whole other trail where I mention Genesis 2:21 where Eve was taken from Adam’s rib - close to his heart and under his arm as well as Genesis 2:18 and the word "helper" meaning one who provides what is lacking in another. Clearly I am grappling with this and Jason gives a helpful analogy. The second avenue that we quite quickly look at because we were running out of time is when he holds her hostage by not being open to allowing her to express her pain and giving her a soft space to land as she grieves. A lot packed into this episode - some tears, a lot of laughter and hopefully a lot to think about. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . The Spring Boundary Class is FULL. However, we are considering adding an early summer class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/30795713

Regrouping + Resources 04/05/2024

#78: Going Into Public with Confidence 03/29/2024

#78: Going Into Public with Confidence As we dig into the content of this particular episode - please keep in mind that these situations are SO nuanced. So please take what we are sharing and consider how it applies to you. What we share will not work for everyone in every situation. #1 - Clearly End the Affair - Our first suggestion for regaining confidence and to be able to go back out into the community with your head high is to consider utilizing a technique from I Don’t Love You Anymore (link below). In the book, Dr. Clarke suggests that the betrayer (with his wife on the line) calls the affair partner to verbally and officially end things. This is something Jason and I did with several of his AP’s and it was incredibly validating and honoring for me and it also gave me confidence as I went back out into the world. #2 - Make a Choice + Take Back Your Power - Next, we talk about making a choice + taking back our power. Specifically, we think it’s important for you to make a choice about who needs to know about this and who doesn’t need to know about it. And once that choice is made - remind yourself that NONE of these people (whether they know or don’t know) have power over you. Jason makes a great point - once those people know, we can start to relinquish control of the narrative. We have made the decision and we can surrender the rest. Head held high. (And remind yourself that what others think is nothing for you to be concerned with.) Reputation is something we have very little to no control over but our character is what we want to focus on and what we can control. So again, surrendering our reputation and surrendering control of the narrative. We talk briefly about shame and this is probably something we need to dive into a bit more here on the podcast - how shame impacts her (we covered shame for him in episode #7, see link below). For now, practice an awareness of the role that shame plays and how it impacts your confidence when you go out in public. Keep in mind the antidote to shame is intimacy so naming it and then talking about it are key. #3 - Have a Plan - Something that helped me years ago was to imagine this happening (a run in) and having a plan for what I would or would not say. I also had to lean into what was going to be an incredibly awkward situation and let it be awkward (as much as we don’t want things to be awkward). #4 - Embrace this as an Invitation for Greater Healing - Give yourself permission to take baby steps. Start by going to your mailbox and celebrate that win. Go through a drive through and give yourself a ton of compassion. Build off of those baby steps and keep stretching yourself. And all the while, know that this, too, will cultivate character and growth in YOU. Jason then shares two things that he wants men to know: if you bump into the AP - RUN. Literally. As he said so well - you can’t leave any space for questions. And as quickly as you leave, you quickly tell your wife. Don’t not say anything and definitely don’t think you are protecting her by not saying anything. Not true. You are protecting you when you choose not to say anything. The end. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. We mention episode #54 - Fearing Attractive Women at the top of the episode. A book we reference a ton and did again in this episode - . If you haven’t read this book, and especially if you lack confidence to say to your husband - this is not okay - I highly encourage you give this book a read. For the episode on Biblical Shame - . Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/30592433

#77: Making Friends with the Work 03/22/2024

#77: Making Friends with the Work As Jason said early on in this episode - recovery work is painful. It hurts, it’s scary and no wonder we resist it. Jason talks about how he went from resisting the recovery work to accepting that there was work to do. It’s in this process that we make friends with the work. As Thomas Berry, a coach on our team, says - we go from “got to TO get to”. How we make friends with the work: 1 - When recovery calls, we answer the call. 2 - Embrace that it's going to hurt. 3 - We make time. 4 - It brings us closer to God. 5 - We learn from the work. 6 - We help others make friends with their work. What stops us from making friends with the work: 1 - Cost: time, money, ego, our job, our status, our reputation. Ultimately, it comes down to what we value. 2 - Fear: of change, what we will find out about ourselves, etc. 3 - The injustice of it. 4 - Lack of guaranteed outcomes and a lot of unknowns. 5 - Bad theology Jason then left me underwhelmed when he said: The place to start is by starting. (As you will hear, I was ready for the next step and he looked at me and said - that’s it. Just start.) Okay then. So we dedicate time daily to the recovery work. And if doing the work isn’t getting you anywhere - consider the practice of implementation (Jason asks some great questions geared toward looking at implementation and if it’s happening) as well as consider if the work you are doing is actually not the right work and needs to be revamped. We segue into a conversation about recovery plans and relapses and I really appreciate what Jason shares about recovery plans being the means to the end and not the end. “The plan isn’t the issue, the person is the issue." We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. Jason mentions episode #68 - What Exactly IS Good Work? Jason mentions the Identity Masterclass - . Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/30491413

#76: The Duality of Hope 03/15/2024

#76: The Duality of Hope Basically, I try to take over during the first five minutes of the episode as I talk about hope. Then I pass the mic over to Jason and you will probably actually like what he says much more. I just try to sprinkle in anecdotal comments as I can, you’re welcome. Hope is a handhold for wives in the following ways… 1 - it gives women a sense of security in the middle of what is a very chaotic experience. 2 - it can reconcile staying. 3 - it can be a reprieve from the chaos that she is experiencing with him. 4 - it can be something that can help her feel sane. 5 - it gives her a way to reconcile that all the years weren’t lost. Then I chime in with: hope is a key ingredient that we have to have. It doesn’t just help with a semblance of security - it IS security. And yet…at the same time, hope can be a handcuff (holding her back) in the following ways... 1 - because everything orbits around recovery. 2 - because it betrays her intuition and better judgment. 3 - because it can cause her to question her faith. 4 - because she is signing up to stay in a revolving door of pain. 5 - because it forces her to decide between herself and the kids. 6 - because if she doesn’t hope - she will be the bad guy. 7 - because it feels like life is defined by betrayal. We then have a couple of side discussions - initially, I am honestly just trying to figure out where to place this guy (that Jason is speaking of) that betrays his wife, does all this recovery work and then says he is going to just let her go. We make no progress in this conversation and move to... We then talk about how in mid-recovery, we in some ways had to sit in a place of figuring out how to like each other again, be roommates again, be husband and wife again, etc. Honestly, I think both Jason and I wondered - after all that hard early work - if what we salvaged was really worth it. The good news is: it was a season and it did pass. So my encouragement to each of you is to keep going. We then go BACK to this guy that is just going to let his wife go (after betrayal, discovery, disclosure, and years of work:!). I clearly can’t let this go and ultimately have some opinions, that I will leave to the recording. And the final side conversation has to do with deferred hope and how we can get stuck in this place. Naming it is powerful and so I hope having these words (if they apply) will help you, too! We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. "Hope anchors the soul" is from . “Hope deferred makes the heart sick but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life” is from . Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/30384958

#75: Where Empathy Develops 03/08/2024

#75: Where Empathy Develops Get out your thinking caps - this episode is heady and I had to rewind many many times to re-listen while I was working on these show notes. We are talking empathy (and intimacy and conviction) today. I believe that empathy is one of the key ingredients that will help her heart heal within the context of the couple-ship. So developing empathy is KEY. We talk neuroanatomy: prefrontal cortex, mirror neurons, cortical hypofrontality and modeling of empathy from others. We also talk biblical anthropology: the holy spirit interacting with our spirit and in that there can be a cultivation of conviction, humility, a sense of our own brokenness, love, and repentance. It’s the interplay between the two of these - the neuranatomy + the biblical anthropology that help cultivate empathy. Both - And. Action Items for men that are struggling to find conviction or have more of a self-depricating conviction (which can lead to empathy): Write your story or revisit your written story and where the wounds are from childhood. Two book recommendations (see below) Reflect on: what am I afraid of when coming to terms with the depths of my depravity? Be aware of your “depravity floor” - and come to terms with the fact that we can all do bad things on really good days and thus need ALL of God’s grace. We end by sharing a list of things that can help with developing empathy: Doing a formal disclosure well Modeling from other men that are empathic (accountability group, coach, therapist, etc.) Story work / root work Living with sobriety / integrity (acting out AND acting in) Gratitude Tilling the soil of your heart (for her) Ultimately - empathy and intimacy go hand in hand. As Jason said - intimacy is the antidote, at every turn. We hope this is helpful for you guys! We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. The two books that Jason recommended: by Brendan Manning and by Skye Jethani Episode #6 is one you can also refer to for more on empathy - . Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/30285753

#74: Intimacy Pays Dividends 03/01/2024

#73: The Value of Full Disclosure 02/23/2024

#73: The Value of Full Disclosure In this episode, we talk about the value of the full disclosure and some of the reasons that doing a full disclosure (for both him and for her) is incredibly beneficial. Here are some of those reasons: - for men: integration of the story and the acting out - as in, making sense of and connecting dots in his story as a whole which informs the recovery and healing process - for men: writing out our stories has been shown via research to help with the healing process at a cellular level - for women: knowing the truth of our lives helps facilitate the process of forgiving (not to mention it restores honor to know the truth) - for women: knowing the truth of his life can eventually help us tap into empathy for him, which in turn helps aid in forgiveness - for men: to help uncover the “why” of the acting out (the roots) - for men: an opportunity for rebuilding trust - for women: helps her get unstuck and sets her on a course to truly grieve what has happened - for both: a marker / foundation for them to build upon - for women: the ability to integrate the truth of her life into her story (just like he does) - for women: witnessing him cultivating ownership (such an important character trait we need to see in him) - for men: it’s Biblical We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. is the researcher out of UT Austin that has shown the impact of writing out our stories to significantly help our bodies heal. - confess you sins so that you may be healed. - the truth will set you free. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop. to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/30076788

#72: Frontloading For Her 02/16/2024

#72: Frontloading For Her In this episode, we piggyback off of the last episode on Frontloading and discuss how women can leverage this technique in order to feel safe having certain conversations with him. This technique is essentially giving him a heads up that a difficult conversation needs to be had + insuring he is in an open space to have said conversation well in advance of it starting. I love this technique because it serves as an insurance policy to help protect her from additional hurt and pain. (And can also be considered a gift for him because he isn’t being put on the spot and can prepare his heart for the conversation.) Jason suggests the following when she approaches him asking for a difficult convo: shush the negative thoughts, control the narrative, and finally - pivot to empathy (this is all happening in the space between the frontload and the actual convo). For women - this is applicable when you are wanting to share your heart (whether you feel hurt, fear, anxious, unsettled, etc.), needing to express a need and/or when you are seeking clarity. This technique is not applicable if you are experiencing immediate triggers and pain or as an “prescriptive edict” (where she demands versus where she expresses what she needs). It can be super helpful to get in touch with what you are feeling and START with that when you sit down to have the conversation. For husbands - focus first on the feelings expressed, meet her there; not solving the problem SO that she doesn’t have those feelings. This will help you hear her heart around the request. Bigger picture, keep in mind: When she front loads, her desire is for you to accept what she is bringing to the table; and less about her trying to accommodate you (by front loading). We hope this tool helps her bring up the harder conversations and helps him meet her heart with tenderness and empathy. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - . Would also love for you to join me in the 2Q Boundary Class - . For more information on RL Academy, click . Join the community on Instagram - . We offer 1:1 coaching, couples recovery coaching, support groups, MasterClasses and on-line courses - check out our websites: and for the full scoop! to subscribe to Shelley’s {almost} monthly letter + announcements. to subscribe to Jason’s list. Questions for the Podcast? us with the subject line: Podcast. /episode/index/show/redemptiveliving/id/29981053

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