The Wholesome Fertility Podcast
The Wholesome Fertility podcast provides information to empower women on their fertility journeys. Combining science, spirituality, and ancient wisdom, fertility acupuncturist Michelle Oravitz speaks solo on a variety of topics as well as with fertility experts worldwide. The information shared on this podcast looks at how fertility can be addressed from multiple perspectives and why it's important to explore the fertility journey from different viewpoints. Topics discussed include infertility, Egg Quality, Menstrual Cycle Optimization, PCOS, IVF, Endometriosis, Nutrition, Chinese Medicine, Naturopathic Medicine, Functional Medicine, Meditation, Spirituality and more!
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Ep 333 The Ancient Wisdom of Ayurveda and How It Supports Fertility
04/22/2025
Ep 333 The Ancient Wisdom of Ayurveda and How It Supports Fertility
On today’s solo episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I’m sharing one of my greatest passions Ayurveda, and how this ancient healing system can deeply support your fertility journey. Ayurveda, which translates to “the study of life,” is a holistic approach that brings harmony to the body, mind, and spirit. In this episode, I’ll walk you through the three doshas Vata, Pitta, and Kapha, and how understanding your unique body type can empower you to make daily choices that support reproductive health and overall well-being. You’ll learn how to identify your dominant dosha, how to nourish and balance it with specific foods, yoga practices, and self-care rituals, and why Ayurveda is such a powerful and intuitive tool for restoring balance. Whether you’re new to Ayurveda or looking to integrate it more fully into your life, this episode is filled with practical guidance to help you feel more connected, grounded, and supported on your path to fertility. Key Takeaways: Ayurveda is a holistic science that balances the body, mind, and spirit to promote fertility and overall health. There are three primary doshas Vata (air & ether), Pitta (fire & water), and Kapha (earth & water) each with unique physical, emotional, and energetic characteristics. Understanding your dosha helps you make personalized lifestyle and nutrition choices that support hormonal balance and reproductive health. Vata types benefit from warmth, grounding, and healthy fats; Pitta types thrive on cooling, anti-inflammatory foods; and Kapha types need stimulation, lighter foods, and movement. Daily practices like dry brushing, self-massage, and tailored yoga routines can deeply support nervous system regulation and fertility. Ayurveda provides intuitive and practical tools you can apply daily to feel more balanced, energised, and connected to your body. For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: ----- Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care.
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Ep 332 Why Symptoms Are Your Body’s Messages with Katie Beecher
04/15/2025
Ep 332 Why Symptoms Are Your Body’s Messages with Katie Beecher
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined once again by Katie Beecher , a licensed professional counselor and medical and emotional intuitive. With over 35 years of experience, Katie has a unique ability to create detailed physical, emotional, and spiritual reports and even symbolic paintings using just a person’s name and age. In this powerful conversation, we dive into how fertility challenges are deeply tied to the body’s messages, unresolved trauma, and even spiritual guidance. Katie shares insight into Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome as a hidden factor in infertility, the emotional layers of miscarriage and loss, and the importance of connecting with spirit babies. We also explore how symptoms are not something to fear—but invitations to tune in and heal. Whether you're on a fertility journey or simply seeking a deeper connection to your body and intuition, this episode is filled with wisdom and compassion. Key Takeaways: Symptoms are not your enemy they are messages from your body and spirit. Anxiety, trauma, and stress disconnect us from our bodies, blocking healing and fertility. Spirit babies often communicate with future parents and may arrive through various paths—including adoption or donor eggs. Conditions like Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome can go undiagnosed but play a significant role in reproductive health. Empowering your intuition and setting boundaries are crucial for emotional and spiritual readiness for parenthood. Healing is not about control—it’s about partnership with your body, your spirit, and the wisdom within. Guest Bio: Katie Beecher is a licensed professional counselor and renowned medical and emotional intuitive with over 35 years of experience. Known for her unique ability to create detailed wellness reports and symbolic paintings using just a person’s name and age, Katie has been featured in over 200 media outlets including Goop, Poosh, and Kora Organics. She is also the author of Heal from Within: An Intuitive Guide to Wellness, a practical guide that teaches readers how to access their own intuition, cultivate self-love, and heal holistically. Katie’s work is deeply informed by her personal healing journey from bulimia, Lyme disease, and depression—an experience that began when she courageously sought help as a teenager and has since inspired her life’s mission. Websites/Social Media Links: —------------- For more information about Michelle, visit To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care. Transcript: # TWF: Katie Beecher (audio) [00:00:00] Episode number 3 32 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. My guest today is Katie Beecher. Katie is a licensed professional counselor and medical and emotional intuitive. With over 35 years of experience, Katie is featured in over 200 media outlets including Goop, Courtney Kardashian's website and Miranda Kerr's Gora Organics blog and has taught a week long workshop. At the Omega Institute, she has a unique way of working with clients, creating a detailed, individualized, physical, emotional, and spiritual report and symbolic painting before ever seeing them, talking with them, or seeing a photograph using only their name and age. Katie's first book. Heal from within. An intuitive guide to wellness uses practical tools and techniques Katie uses in her own medical and spiritual intuitive readings. The book teaches you to be your own medical intuitive, using [00:01:00] Katie's revolutionary step-by-step process for connecting to intuition and spirit, finding self-love and empowerment as well as to heal physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Heal from within is filled with remarkable stories of healing from her years of experience, as well as her own healing from bulimia, Lyme disease and emotional illness at the age of 16, without telling anyone, including her parents, Katie contacted her pediatrician and began therapy for a severe eating disorder and suicidal depression. She has been healed for over 35 years. Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm Michelle, a fertility acupuncturist here to provide you with resources on how to create a wholesome approach to your fertility [00:02:00] journey. **Michelle Oravitz:** Welcome back to the podcast, Katie. I'm so happy to have you back. **Katie Beecher:** This is a really great topic and I work with it a lot, so it's nice to, uh, podcast. **Michelle Oravitz:** So good. So I remember our first podcast episode. We talked about how about your gift really, and how you also incorporate art, which I thought was so cool. **Katie Beecher:** Yes. **Michelle Oravitz:** and so now since then you've started to see a lot of people. With fertility, like specifically fertility people are coming to you like about loss miscarriage and also spirit babies, like future babies and babies who have, yeah. **Katie Beecher:** I mean, I've, I always worked with a little bit but yeah, lately, like the past six months or so, I've really been getting a lot of fertility people. And, and I really, really, my heart goes out to them. **Michelle Oravitz:** Yeah, for sure. And I feel like it's kind of like you're being called, you're being summoned. **Katie Beecher:** Yes. **Michelle Oravitz:** it's like a need, it's like a need in that world to really [00:03:00] become a messenger in that space. I wanted to get your thoughts, like, why do you feel like we're living at this time right now? Like this time it seems to be more needed than ever. Like the, the fertility space, like there a lot more people are experiencing that. There's a lot more of that happening now, and I wanted to get, get your take on it. **Katie Beecher:** Yeah, I mean, I think some of it gets down to just lifestyle changes and people having children getting married later, having children later, you know, decide to do that. And that's kind of. Age isn't necessarily a fertility block as we know, but it definitely can complicate things, you know? So I think that's a piece of it. I don't know if there's more stress than in the past. It feels like it, **Michelle Oravitz:** Yeah **Katie Beecher:** for sure. So, and we all know that stress plays a big part in it with the cortisol and the, you know, effects on the immune system and, and all those kind of things. So I think that's also it. And [00:04:00] I feel like people have more of a need to communicate with spirit in terms of their own personal relationship with their intuition. Their body and a lot of people for various reasons are kind of out of body and, **Michelle Oravitz:** Right. It's true. **Katie Beecher:** it's really hard to know what your body needs for fertility or anything else if you are not in it or if you feel like it's your enemy or you can't listen to the signals it gives you in terms of self care, for example. You know, so. **Michelle Oravitz:** Yeah, I agree. I also like noticed, I remember I read your book and it's, I feel like with you, it's what's cool. What I really like is that. You not only are connected to spirit, which I think that most people who don't really understand it think it's kind of like somewhere up in the clouds or it's not like real, or I not, it's hard to like kind of, look at because it's not something that could be looked at. It's something that's more experienced. But what I find that's interesting about you is that you [00:05:00] really pull it into the body **Katie Beecher:** Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. **Michelle Oravitz:** you kind of like the intelligence in your body. It's almost like the, the messages that your body's giving to you. And that could be considered Yeah. Like intuitive, but that's actually like something we all have. **Katie Beecher:** Yeah, no, it's true. I try to, you know, make it not woo woo because it's really not, and we all have medical intuition. We use it all the time. Like, you know, if you get a stomach ache, it's, you immediately start thinking. and problem solving. Like, was it something I just ate? Do I need to have crackers? Do I need to get some seltzer? Do I, you know, have to, aol, do I need to lay down? Do I need to go to the hospital? So whether it's you or your kids, right? Because we're, we do it for our family members also. so I think it's something that naturally happens. My abilities take it to the, you know, nth degree, which is different, but it doesn't mean that people don't have medical intuitive abilities who don't do what I do. **Michelle Oravitz:** 100%. I think so too. It's, [00:06:00] not I think it's something that we've all been given because we need to have it. We need to know what's going on with our body and we can have it too. It's not something, and I think that sometimes we also give the power away. I. To other people to dictate kind of what we should do with our own bodies, and we also overlook our own intuition on what our bodies are telling us because we don't trust that. I mean, it really kind of goes on and on. **Katie Beecher:** It, it really does. And I think people, if you have trauma or illness or something, the thought is that these, these feelings in your body, are scary or that there are enemies or we have to fix them and obsess about them. And a, I think a more practical way of looking at it is what is my body telling me? What is my intuition telling me? You know, if my chest is tight, that may be my intuition yelling at me that I need to do something different or whatever. Even like anxiety [00:07:00] is so big and I look at anxiety as number one. It's very natural. It's a survival mechanism, right? We've always had it. We've always needed it. And it's letting, it's letting you know that something isn't right. So it may be danger or it may be that you're letting people take advantage of you, or not setting boundaries, or that you're not doing self-care or you're doing something against yourself, or it just means something's wrong that we need to take a look at. And the more you push it down, the stronger it gets. So then it becomes this big thing in and of itself, you know? **Michelle Oravitz:** But it's actually just trying to guide you. It's kind of trying to get your attention and that's why I always say like symptoms, it's so funny 'cause we get really annoyed with symptoms. But symptoms are our best friends. They're the best things that we could have. It's such a, a, genius design of our bodies is to let us know what's going on and to guide us. It's when we fight with the symptoms, they grow bigger and bigger and then they become like really hard to manage. **Katie Beecher:** And then what happens [00:08:00] is the more we ignore, the worse they get and the more that they need to interfere with our help, our happiness, and our help, and, and it's not even necessarily our faults because. We have a culture of just, you know, grin and bear it, kind of get through it, you know, just don't even, you know, and, and there's something to be said for that as well, but like, you can't ignore what your body is telling you. And then also expect to be healthy and happy because you, you're either here or you're out here. And if you're out here. It's impossible to be present. Most of us live in between, like I, I live out there too, so, but I be here, you know, in order to function and and help people too. **Michelle Oravitz:** Yeah. And then so talk to me about some of the cases that you've seen of late. You know, 'cause you've been talking to more people. I know we were talking before [00:09:00] about a lot of loss, and I think that that's a really important topic because it's so confusing, it's heartbreaking. It's just really hard for people, especially because not a lot of attention goes on that type of loss. Like pregnancy loss. It's not given a ceremony. It's not unless the couple decides to do it. So I think that, and then the community, sometimes couples go through it alone, so I think that it's a very unique type of loss in that way. It could be really, really difficult because of that. **Katie Beecher:** like I said, I really feel for people and a lot of it is, things that some, if you haven't been through it, like a miscarriage or, or whatever, or a fertility journey. Right. If you haven't been through that, just like if you haven't been through anything, it can be hard to understand what a person's going through. But I was working with somebody recently and she been trying to get pregnant for. I guess like five years now. And she's in her forties. And she's gotten pregnant through [00:10:00] various means, but they were all chemical pregnancies, so they only lasted about a week or so. And then even with the egg retrieval all of her embryos have seemed to have some abnormality, so. There's nothing that she can do, you know, in terms of, of fixing that. And then the, the question is like, does that mean that every time I try to get pregnant, there's gonna be something wrong with the baby? And is there something wrong with me and is there something wrong with my body? And just like, and this person, I really feel for her 'cause she's doing it alone. She doesn't have a partner, you know, and so there's not even anybody to help. Kind of support you and pick up that slack, you know? And that, that loss just then turns, I think, to sheer terror of, ah, and then **Michelle Oravitz:** right. Every single time you have to go through it, you're, you're not gonna be able to feel safe. **Katie Beecher:** and there's A-P-T-S-D [00:11:00] component to it of, do I get my hopes up? What if I get hurt again? What if I, and, and all of those feelings of grief and loss and everything come back every time you even think about doing it again. You know, **Michelle Oravitz:** Right. **Katie Beecher:** and I just, like you said, it's not, and I think things like your show and other things have helped people be able to talk about it more. You know, but it is a foreign concept to a lot of people. **Michelle Oravitz:** For sure. And so what do you see, do you see like a spiritual component to it? Is there some message or something that they need to like address that they feel um, at least to get through it, you know, to get them stronger? Mm-hmm. **Katie Beecher:** so it's, I I pick up a really mixed bag of things. It's not uncommon for me to pick up. Physical or emotional issues that need to be addressed before a healthy pregnancy can take place. And so, things [00:12:00] like Lyme, because Lyme can get passed on, you know, to your kids. And if you have that, there's a lot of reasons why you need to heal as much as possible, you know, before you can have healthy pregnancy. What I pick up on a lot is something called ER Danlos syndrome. Have you heard of that before? **Michelle Oravitz:** No. **Katie Beecher:** So Ler Danlos, the, one of the most prominent symptoms of it is hypermobility. So being ultra flexible, but even that can, can be different in every person. But it's a connective tissue disorder and it's collagen and elastin that are always inflamed in your body. So you have this ongoing inflammation, but EDS impacts virtually every area of the body. **Michelle Oravitz:** Wow. **Katie Beecher:** It's really, really crazy. I have it, my daughter have it has it also. So I feel like a Guinea pig, you know, having, and then I can help a lot more other people, which is. Is good. And then I end up helping a lot of families 'cause it's genetic. So people are like, oh, I didn't know I had it. That [00:13:00] sounds like my mom, but that sounds like my sister. Or, you know. But the thing about it is that because your organs can be lax because there's inflammation, because all sorts of things and it screws up your hormones. It a million things that can be a real, a hidden cause of infertility. **Michelle Oravitz:** Wow, that's crazy. 'cause I've never heard about. **Katie Beecher:** Yeah, it's not uncommon. It used to be considered a rare disease and there's 13 different types, so all except the most common type are pretty rare. But the most common type is not rare at all. I pick it up all the time and it's been getting more media attention, which is good. Because doctors are really bad at diagnosing it. 'cause there's all these symptoms and so when you go to a doctor, usually all insurance allows them to pay for, is that one symptom? Like, which is crazy because you need to look at the whole body to **Michelle Oravitz:** Wow, that's so crazy. And what could you do about it? **Katie Beecher:** So, you can't [00:14:00] cure it, but there's a lot you can do. And so a lot of it is like testing for histamine sensitivities, for example, histamines come into it. They do all sorts of different, you know, testing for autoimmune things and just that kind of thing is, is valuable. But what was the most helpful to me in my treatment was getting to work with physical therapists who were specialists in EDS. And I was able to see like which parts of my body were really stiff. 'cause you can be stiff, not just flexible, right? It all, it moves around your body all the time. 'cause your tendon ligaments are going like this. And so what was tight? What was loose? What was weak? Was strong. Different sides of the body are different. It ex like it can show if you have a, a loose area, other areas get tight to overcompensate for it. So, I've been able to like do things like before I do my pole dancing and aerial arts and stuff like [00:15:00] that. There's certain exercises and things that I need to do in order to not injure myself again. And even things like, it makes you more susceptible to bone density issues, right? Because it does, it can't, you can't hold up your muscles and bones with loose ligaments. So there's a lot of things. And in terms of pregnancy, right? People with EDS are more prone to things like placenta previa and all sorts of different complications, even like miscarriages and stuff. Implantation issues, just all kinds of things. Endometriosis, so many things. But during pregnancy, as you probably know, our ligaments and our hips loosen up anyway, right. So if the doctor knows that you have EDS, there's things that they can do, exercises they can give you, things that they can do to, you know, watch for. And also like maybe if things are really loose, you might need a a cesarean, you know, before another person would, or [00:16:00] even like. Anesthesia, for example. People with EDS, sometimes anesthesia works, sometimes it doesn't work, sometimes it works too much. So it's, you know, those kind of things that you can kind of prepare for knowing what conditions people **Michelle Oravitz:** Could it impact like an incompetent cervix? That's, uh, so that's another one. You'd get a cerclage to keep it closed. **Katie Beecher:** Exactly, exactly. Yeah. It affects the whole body, 'cause connected tissues everywhere, including the brain. **Michelle Oravitz:** crazy. **Katie Beecher:** It is, it's really, and it's, it's so gratifying to work with people with it who have been told they have everything else, like fibromyalgia. Don't even get me started on that diagnosis. But, you know, that's what comes back a lot because they don't know right, what the root causes are. And even like, like pots you know, like I said, histamine sensitivities, like there's so many side. Side things that are basically created when we have inflammation and when our organs aren't doing what they **Michelle Oravitz:** It can impact your gut. I mean, it...
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Ep 331 Unlocking Conscious Fertility: The Mind-Body Connection with Lorne Brown
04/08/2025
Ep 331 Unlocking Conscious Fertility: The Mind-Body Connection with Lorne Brown
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined by fertility expert, acupuncturist, and conscious work practitioner, Lorne Brown @. Originally a CPA, Lorne’s personal health journey led him to discover the transformative power of Chinese medicine, ultimately changing his career path. Now, as a leader in integrative fertility care and the host of The Conscious Fertility Podcast, Lorne bridges the gap between science and spirituality to help individuals optimize their fertility and overall well-being. In this episode, Lorne shares how conscious work plays a powerful role in fertility, explaining how subconscious beliefs and emotional resistance can impact reproductive health. He discusses the mind-body connection, the importance of inner healing, and how shifting from stress to flow can create profound changes. Whether you’re on a fertility journey or simply looking to align with your highest self, this conversation is packed with insights on conscious transformation, holistic healing, and the power of perception. Key Takeaways: Lorne’s personal journey from accountant to acupuncturist and fertility expert. How Chinese medicine and holistic healing transformed his health and career. The mind-body connection and how stress impacts fertility. How subconscious beliefs shape our reality and can either block or support conception. The power of inner work and emotional healing in reproductive health. How shifting from resistance to receptivity can improve fertility outcomes. The role of consciousness in creating meaningful change in health and life. Insights from The Conscious Fertility Podcast and how Lorne helps patients find balance through a holistic and energetic approach. Guest Bio: Dr. Lorne Brown @ is a leader in integrative fertility care, blending Chinese medicine, mind-body healing, and cutting-edge therapies. A former Chartered Professional Accountant (CPA), his personal health journey led him to acupuncture, herbal medicine, and holistic fertility support. As the founder of Acubalance Wellness Centre, he introduced low-level laser therapy (LLLT) for fertility and pioneered IVF acupuncture in Vancouver. He also created Healthy Seminars, an online education platform, and hosts The Conscious Fertility Podcast, where he explores the intersection of science, consciousness, and reproductive health. Websites/Social Media Links: For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility -------- Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care. ----- Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility [00:01:00] Podcast. I'm Michelle, a fertility acupuncturist here to provide you with resources on how to create a wholesome approach to your fertility journey. **Michelle Oravitz:** Welcome to the podcast, Lauren. **Lorne Brown:** Hey, Michelle, glad to be together with you over whatever we call this technology. I think yours is the Riverside. Yeah, I had a good time interviewing you for my Conscious Fertility podcast, so I'm looking forward to having more conversations with you because that was a lot of fun for me. **Michelle Oravitz:** It was a lot of fun for me too. And I actually it was really, really nice. And to see that we have very similar views just on reality and health and fertility, **Lorne Brown:** Yeah. **Michelle Oravitz:** it was a lot of fun. And so last week actually for everybody's listening, that was the first time we actually officially met via zoom. **Lorne Brown:** Yeah. But we know each other. We're part of the, the ABORM, right? The Acupuncture TCM Reproductive Board of Medicine but yeah, [00:02:00] like the first time you and I had real conversation rather than chat conversation. **Michelle Oravitz:** Which is awesome. I **Lorne Brown:** Yeah. **Michelle Oravitz:** it. And I think that we're so aligned in so many ways. I think that we both love the whole bridging of science and spirituality. We're kind of nerds in that department. **Lorne Brown:** Yeah. **Michelle Oravitz:** for people listening, I would love if you can introduce yourself. I know we also have, we started out with very different backgrounds. And went into acupuncture, you have like kind of a similar cause you started in accounting, right? **Lorne Brown:** Yeah, so, I am a CPA, so a Certified Professional Accountant back in the day they were called Chartered Accountants in Canada and because of health issues and having such a a response to Chinese medicine in particular eventually I, I was the, one of the controllers and tax guys at this time with ocean spray growers here in B. C. and I left that position so I could go back to school and study Chinese medicine as my second career. So that's kind of a little bit about my background. And then eventually **Michelle Oravitz:** [00:03:00] Like what made you think about doing Chinese medicine? **Lorne Brown:** I was ill. I had um, you know, back in the day, this is in the eighties and early nineties. So this Chinese medicine wasn't as available. This was before websites, right? Where you could really see what other people were doing and learning. And so I had severe gut issues, you know, diagnosis IBS, chronic fatigue, candida and you know, I got scoped through all each end and eventually and I tried different Western approaches and eventually it was the herb, Chinese herbal medicine actually that dramatically changed it so much. So, I mean, I have some memories. I did a bachelor of science first in math. That was my first thing. Then I went and did accounting in McGill. And and then I went and became a CPA, back then CA. They changed the letters for the designation. And I remember when I was at McGill I was already seeing alternative medicine doctors, in particular Chinese medicine. And I remember [00:04:00] s for the first time, how much clarity, because I had, I didn't realize how much brain fog I had. And so the clarity I had, I was in the classroom, I just realized how easy things were going in, and I was just remembering things, and I just felt like things were almost in slow motion in a good way, like a professional athlete when they can see the court. And physically, I just felt I had so much endurance, so much energy. I was just I felt great. And you know, when you've been feeling poorly for so long, That I thought that was normal. And then I got, you know, the illness was so bad while I was early days in my accounting studies at McGill. it interfered with my, my studies. It interfered my life. I almost couldn't get outta bed sometimes with the fatigue and the brain fog. And so I had an I had an aunt who was into this stuff. , I was, wasn't right. Remember, it came from Bachelor's Science Math in Duke County. I was, I think I was always open-minded. Look what I'm doing, but it wasn't kind of on my radar. And she's the one that suggested I see her Chinese herbalist. And you know, I was desperate. I was living in Montreal, Canada. She was living in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. So [00:05:00] I, I got on a plane and flew to see her person because I wouldn't know who to go see right back then. And you know, through dietary changes and herbal medicine. It, it transformed my life and funny story because, you know, I do acupuncture like you do. I always had a fear of needles, right? I never was a big fan of needles. So the first time I was getting acupuncture, the acupuncturist who treated me, I have everybody lying down, but he had me sitting up on the table. Right on the treatment table. I was sitting and he's putting these needles in me and he's like, are you okay? I guess he could see I was going a little green and I'm trying to be, you know, tough guy. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm fine. Next thing I know flop, I passed out on the table. **Michelle Oravitz:** do. **Lorne Brown:** So. Yeah. So now I receive it. I love it. Now I give it. But I did. It's a mind over matter, right? I did have that fear of needles, which is why I started with the herbal medicine. Most people like, Oh, I'll do acupuncture, but they maybe have an aversion to the herbs or the taste of the herbs. I was the other way [00:06:00] around. I got introduced to Chinese medicine through the herbal medicine. And then I was like, Oh, I'll try the acupuncture too. and, you know, I stuck with it, obviously. And, and eventually went back to school and now I can I receive it and I can give it and I have so much compassion for those who have a fear of needles, but usually if they come in and try it, they realize it doesn't feel like needles that you're getting. And now with technology, I have low level laser systems as well. So I can do laser acupuncture for those people that just cannot. Experience acupuncture because it's so stressful for them. **Michelle Oravitz:** Yeah, for sure. So that's that's one of the things or sometimes starting them out with baby needles because the baby needles are really, really, really super thin. You can barely feel it. **Lorne Brown:** Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, I just give them the acupuncture for the first time and, and they're nervous. But, you know, they let me put in one needle, then another, then a third. And that's all I'll do for the first visit for people who have a big phobia. But like you and I know, and those that have received it, it's not like getting a [00:07:00] needle at the doctor when you get a shot or blood drawn. And so you really, you know, once they're in, it takes like a minute to put them in. Then you go and tell a beautiful rest, la la land for 30 to 45 minutes on the table. So all worth it for most. **Michelle Oravitz:** totally worth it. For sure. So talk about why you got into fertility specifically. **Lorne Brown:** Yeah, and I'll keep it short, but it was, it was never my intention. My intention was to treat gut issues, digestive issues, because that's what brought me to the medicine. So I thought I'd be, and that's what I set out to do, IBS, irritable bowel syndrome, Crohn's, colitis, severe bloating, constipation, diarrhea, that kind of stuff is what I thought I would be seeing. and I did see a lot of that, and in our medicine, when we treat, we do a very Detailed history and we treat holistically so we can't just focus on the gut health just like for fertility We don't just focus on the women's ovaries, right? We focus holistically and so most people that come to health professionals back then And [00:08:00] I started in 2000 and now still are female And so I'd always do a menstrual history and the the menstrual history is such a great guide for health, right? We can get so much information. That's why I prefer treating women over men. I treat both women who are menstruating. Help me diagnose them from a Chinese medicine perspective because I get so much information from their cycle history. And so as I was treating their bloating in their IBS, or they're alternating between, you know, constipation and diarrhea, or even colitis and Crohn's symptoms. They noticed their PMS went away, they noticed their menstrual pain went away, their irregular bleeding, the spotting, all those things changed. So I became popular. with women's health in general. So I was just doing women's health. So I was seeing people with perimenopause and menopausal symptoms and with painful periods. That was what I was seeing. And back then, again, the web wasn't a popular thing. I was advertising a magazine with a focus in women's health. And this woman who found me was going through an IVF and she was [00:09:00] going to see one of our colleagues, Randine Lewis, in Houston. So I'm in Vancouver and she flew to Houston to see Randine because this was before Zoom. And she, Randine told her she needs regular acupuncture at least once a week so she's going to enter herbal medicine. So she has to find somebody local because it wasn't reasonable or cost effective for her to fly weekly to Houston from Vancouver, right? Nobody was focusing on fertility, but she found me women's health. So she came to my clinic and told me her story and asked if I'd be willing to follow Randine's acupuncture prescriptions and her herbal suggestions and do that for her in Vancouver. And I kind of said cheek cheekily, but in a funny way, in a cute way, as a non aggressive way. So basically you want me to be like a monkey. And put the points where Randine tells you, tells me, and prescribe the herbs where Randine how Randine tells me. She goes, yeah. And I'm like, I'm in. That sounds great. I get to learn from somebody. Because what our audience doesn't know, [00:10:00] Randine was already focusing with fertility. And she had already had this draft book, which came out shortly after, called The Infertility Cure. First of many of her books. So, I thought it was a great opportunity to be able to learn from somebody with more experience and, and not have responsibility to the outcome. And so, and then women who are going through IVF and struggling with fertility, they talk and By 2004, I only would take reproductive health issues. That was all I would take because I was too busy, and I started hiring associates and training them because I couldn't handle the load myself. Now, here we are recording this in 2025 I have multiple associates in our clinic. And that do focus on fertility and myself personally, I still see a lot of reproductive health. But I'm so into the conscious work now. Cause I have low level laser therapy that we use for fertility, but I use that for so many other things. Brain health pain, pain injury. And I do a lot with pure menopausal symptoms. So, I would say, and half my practice, when I look at my [00:11:00] schedule is conscious work. Right? Is that mind body work? Half my practice is that. They still get acupuncture and low level laser therapy as part of the treatment but they're coming in with, I'm wanting belief change work. and I do see a lot of reproductive health, but I see everything now. So it's, it's kind of gone full circle. Because of the conscious work, because conscious work is my passion. And so whoever comes in the door that's looking for change, they may want a relationship change or want a relationship, job changes, finances. They want a baby, they want a healing. Basically, they want to be happy and they realize they can't get it from the outside. So they're looking for help on the inside to have that transformation. And that's why we use it for fertility because it's such a powerful tool when you can heal the mind, the body follows really well. **Michelle Oravitz:** Yeah. No doubt. So talk about the conscious work, specifically. What does it entail? Mm-hmm **Lorne Brown:** Yeah, well, I'm trained also as a clinical hypnotherapist, and I've done a lot of what they call energy psychology modalities. So I'm trained in [00:12:00] Psyche, emotional freedom technique, Bankstein healing method, you know, energy type medicine. But from the clinical hypnotherapy perspective and what I would call conscious work, it's inner work. It's waking up to your true nature. It's waking up to what some people would call higher self, what they would call consciousness witness consciousness. You'd have to be open and appreciate that there's more to this world than meets the eyes. And so we have a Newtonian science world, what's considered a materialistic world, and those are things that we can kind of measure. And then there's the science, the new science called quantum physics. Which understands there's so much more to this reality than what we see and when you have these shifts inside it has your your perception to the world You see it differently and you can think of it as if you live in a building Let's say your your life is a building, you know On the first floor if that's where you live, you're going to have a certain perspective of what your neighborhood is And it's going to be very limited because you can only see from the first floor. And as you move up, if the 20 store [00:13:00] building, if you live above 10 and you start to live on the 15th floor, you have a different perspective of what is in your neighborhood than the person who lives on the first floor. And so conscious work is about kind of getting to a different perspective. I we know, you know, through so much more research now that we perceive the world. Through the lenses of our subconscious programming, you know, and so how we see the world is through the lens of our subconscious and that subconscious programming is is inherited and imprinted on us inherited like literally few generations before we know this through um, research on Holocaust survivors and their children and grandchildren. And we know this through the study, the cherry blossom study on mice were stressed and traumatized and it got passed down to their grand pups. I won't go into the study because it's **Michelle Oravitz:** and DNA. **Lorne Brown:** Yeah, it gets tagged. It's not a genetic mutation, it's a tag. So it can, one generation get tagged, and one generation you can heal it. So, you see the world through the lens of your subconscious, and that lens is based on your history. And [00:14:00] so, I heard a teacher of consciousness once say, Reality's white snow, let's pretend that. And then you have red glasses. I have orange glasses. Some of the listeners have blue, green, white, yellow. We're all seeing white snow, but we're all experiencing it, perceiving it differently because of our lens. And if we want to have a different experience to see that reality, we got to change our lens. **Michelle Oravitz:** Yes. **Lorne Brown:** You know, or we're both fans of Joe Dispenza, right? We both run retreats, and **Michelle Oravitz:** we're Joe Dispenza groupies. **Lorne Brown:** yeah, I like, I like his work. I like his retreats and his books. And in his book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, I think it's where he said it. I've read all of his books and been to many retreats, but I really liked how he said your personal reality is based on your personality. And you can't have, how do you expect to have a different reality if you bring your current personality into your future? You're gonna get the same thing. Right. And so this is about having that shift because, you know, we're going kind of into a rabbit hole here, but if you're open for it, **Michelle Oravitz:** No, I'm totally open for it. And my, my listeners are used [00:15:00] to it, **Lorne Brown:** okay, you know, God, I see they're allowed to, or Gandhi, I've seen this quote attributed to both, but it kind of goes like your beliefs lead to your thoughts, which lead to your feelings, which lead to your actions and behaviors, which lead to your habits. which leads to your destiny. Basically they're saying is your behaviors are always congruent with your beliefs. And when they conflict the program, the belief is going to win. And if you do a behavior long enough, it becomes your habit. So it becomes a reality. So we often want to go and work on the outside world. We often want to go work on a behavior, but the behavior stems from a belief or a program often unconscious. And so we'll self sabotage ourselves, even though we really want to lose that weight. We go and we diet, we exercise, but that's a behavior. But if you have a program that, you know, I'm not beautiful, right, or I'm not thin enough, then the subconscious wants congruency, and it will find a way to sabotage that. [00:16:00] Consciously or...
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Ep 330 Why Your Nervous System May Hold the Key to Conception
04/01/2025
Ep 330 Why Your Nervous System May Hold the Key to Conception
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I dive into why your nervous system may hold the key to conception. We all know how stress can impact fertility, but did you know that your nervous system plays a direct role in reproductive function? I’ll break down how chronic stress and nervous system dysregulation affect hormone balance, digestion, and overall well-being. In this episode, I’ll also explore the yin and yang dynamics of the nervous system through the lens of Traditional Chinese Medicine and share practical strategies to restore balance, enhance relaxation, and support your fertility naturally. Key Takeaways: Chronic stress can put the body into survival mode, diverting energy away from reproduction. A harmonious balance between action (yang) and rest (yin) is essential for optimal fertility and overall well-being. Stress impacts digestion, which in turn affects fertility. The vagus nerve plays a key role in restoring balance. Proper sleep helps regulate hormones, maintain circadian rhythms, and support menstrual health. Practices like yoga, qigong, breathwork, grounding, and acupuncture help shift the body into a restorative state conducive to conception. The heart-uterus connection in Traditional Chinese Medicine highlights the role of oxytocin in conception and reproductive health. ---- For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: -------- Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care. Transcript: [00:00:00] [00:01:00] Michelle Oravitz: Welcome back to the wholesome fertility podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orobitz. And today I'm going to be talking about something absolutely crucial for fertility. And you may have not guessed this, but it's your nervous system. We all know how stress can impact fertility, but did you know that your nervous system plays a direct role in reproductive function for both men and women? Today, we'll cover how nervous system dysregulation affects fertility, why stress hormones like cortisol disrupt reproductive balance, and how to regulate your nervous system to boost your fertility. And because I love blending Western science and traditional Chinese medicine, we'll [00:02:00] also explore the yin and yang dynamics of the nervous system and how keeping these energies in balance is key for optimal fertility. So let's dive in. So first I'm going to talk about the autonomic nervous system, and it is basically what is hidden in the background, taking care of your body at all times, whether you're conscious of it or not. So for short, we can call it ANS. So the ANS controls involuntary functions like heart rate, digestion, and reproductive function. It has two main branches. One is called the sympathetic nervous system, and you may have heard this referred to as the fight or flight. And the other is the parasympathetic nervous system, and that is considered the rest and digest. So if you want to think of this as the yin and yang, the yang is more active and it would be more of the fight or flight. Which isn't a bad thing 'cause you know, everything that we have in our [00:03:00] bodies are there for a reason. And the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the rest and digest, would be considered more of a yin, which is more in its potential and it's more calm and inert. So when these two systems are in balance, everything works really well, and ultimately we need both in order to survive. And that is why it's there in the first place. But when stress takes over and the body shifts into survival mode, then this is considered more chronic stress. It's something that happens all the time. So we're not meant to have this So fight or flight mode happen chronically, we're meant to have it to take us out of danger, but we're not always in danger and we'll still feel it because of our stressful thoughts or stressful situations in our life will cause us to feel like we need to survive. So when this happens chronically, it creates a sympathetic nervous system in overdrive and this can directly [00:04:00] impact fertility. So just to recap on the yin and yang, if you haven't heard about this before, the yin is a more feminine, quiet, calm state. And it's more receptive. It's cooling. It is considered the moon, whereas the yang is the sun. It's more active. It moves a lot. It moves quickly. It is more the fight or flight. It has a yang energy and the yang could be more heating. So like I said, it was, more representative of the sun and mobilizes energy for action. Generally, although fight or flight and rest and digest are just one examples that have yin and yang qualities, we have yin and yang aspects of our bodies really for everything. And in order for our bodies to thrive in general, the yin and yang have to have a harmonious state. So they need to work together as a couple. And when that happens in a harmonious balanced [00:05:00] state, that is when we thrive. And you can think about it as homeostasis. The body likes homeostasis and homeostasis is really vital in order for our bodies to thrive. So we can also look at actions that we're doing. If we're doing things that are too young, too active, like type A personality type of thing, where we have to get everything done, everything on the checklist has to get done, and we're not really taking time out for the rest and digest, or for time to just get more. restorative, restorative sleep, restorative rest, or do things that are less action oriented. When we don't have that balance, then we go into a more overdrive aspect of the young, and that can burn us out. And it's important to know that when we get into a survival mode, our bodies and our minds are not focused on any kind of creativity whatsoever because we have to survive and the body's always going to favor survival over [00:06:00] reproduction. So if reproductive energy needs energy, then it's going to basically tap. It's kind of like our savings account. And the body, if it's really depleted, it's going to tap into the savings account and use that for survival, which means that it's taking energy away from reproduction. And when energy is being taken away from reproduction, then it's not going to reproduce because that is not priority. The priority is survival. So, Having this chronically can really, really wreck havoc on your hormone balance and really impact so many different systems. It can impact how you sleep. When people feel really stressed. Then they're going to have a really hard time falling asleep because their nervous system is constantly wired and ready. You know, when we're in a survival mode, we're not going to want to sleep too deeply because look at our ancestors. If they knew that they were in danger. [00:07:00] They were going to be a lot more awake. You see a lot of cats with their ears open. Their nervous system is very receptive to any kind of noise. So small noises can wake us up and we're not going to be in a state where we can just let go and feel safe. And ultimately being in the rest and digest mode really means feeling more safe. Another thing to consider is the fact that our rest and digest mode, I mean, based on the actual description of that means that it's restorative, the rest, but it also helps digestion. So we know that high stress that is chronic can lead to issues with digestion. So Our digestive health is incredibly important when it comes to fertility health. In Chinese medicine, we look at the spleen and the stomach as a pair. And those organs are actually, even though the spleen in Western medicine is more something that works on our immune system, which the spleen and stomach do to some extent, [00:08:00] because when our digestive health is really healthy, our bodies have enough energy to fight off any outside impacts. any disease, really. So it gives us the energy that we need. So we need our digestive system to work properly in order to nourish our bodies so that our bodies are able to get energy. Plus it also, with a healthy digestive system, you have less inflammation and a lot of imbalances with the digestive system or even our gut microbiome can impact. autoimmune conditions or our immunity and have it a little more hyperactive because there's chronic low grade inflammation at all times. So those are things that are actually really, really important. And as we know, chronic stress can impact our digestive system. So we have a relationship really between the brain and the gut is absolutely real And it is mediated by something called the vagus nerve. And that is a cranial nerve that is in [00:09:00] charge and actually having it stimulated can impact your heart rate and it can impact your digestive system. SoSo it has a direct communication between the brain and it has a direct communication to the enteric nervous system. Michelle Oravitz: So the enteric nervous system is basically our digestive nervous system. it runs from your mouth all the way down to your anus. So it's basically your whole digestive system has its own nervous system. And this is called the enteric nervous system. So your thoughts and your emotions and your emotional state can indirectly impact your nervous system of your gut through the vagus nerve. So your thoughts and emotional state and stress levels can impact your gut health through the nervous system. And of course, if your sleep is impacted, this is going to cause your hormones to get impacted because sleep helps restoration. It also helps deplete excess hormones and balance [00:10:00] hormones altogether. It also impacts our circadian rhythm. And for women, this is really important when it comes to their menstrual cycle, because our circadian rhythm, which is our 24 hour clock also impacts our infradian rhythm, which is the 28 to 29 day cycle, which is our menstrual cycle. And when it comes to Chinese medicine, our heart health or heart state is really, really important when it comes to fertility health, it has a direct line of communication. And a really,a direct vessel to the uterus, which through something called the bow my channel. And this is really important for conception. So many times when our hearts are not in the right place, then it can impact really how our uterus and our womb reacts. So it is one of the really most important things is really connecting to that heart center. And also we know that the love hormone oxytocin increases around ovulation and it increases [00:11:00] after intercourse. So we know that there is something to that. It has to be there for a reason if it has a role to play in conception. Although this aspect has not really been studied as much in depth. We know that it wouldn't be there unless it had played a role. And Most of the studies done on oxytocin really are geared towards labor and the body going into labor. So we know that if that's the case, and in Chinese medicine, the heart opens the uterus, that's its role. Then perhaps the heart opening the uterus opens it in labor, but perhaps it also opens it in receiving new life. Because as we can see, the levels increase around time. which is optimal time of conception around ovulation. And after a woman has an orgasm, it also increases for men as well. But in this case, I'm talking more about women because it has a role on the womb. So in cases of men, [00:12:00] their sperm health can get impacted by a dysregulated nervous system. So it's important for men to also have The proper rest and proper nervous system balance. So we also know that with men it is important to have the Yin and Yang balance as well. When it comes to overall, you know, Yang is more of a male energy and they do have a lot of that heat. But also the sperm is really surrounded by Yin fluids. So it is very Yin also in nature, even though it's very quick swimming. So it's important for both to be in balance for men as well. So again, going back to the nervous system, we're thinking about something that's active, but something that is also restorative and having those two opposites in balance. So a couple of things that you can do to balance the nervous system, and this can be done for both the men and the women, is to do things like yoga or qigong, because [00:13:00] with moving the body, you're able to really restore a state of balance. safety in the body and where the body feels safe, it has more energy for its creativity. So the body's creativity is fertility, but the same thing happens with the mind. When the mind is in chronic stress, the last thing it thinks about is creating and innovating. And usually when the mind feels safe, it will be more open we'll have more energy to create. So another thing that can be done is grounding. Grounding is incredibly calming and it also calms the nervous system because most of the time it's done outside. Although you can get a grounding mat if need be, which is something that you can purchase online, and you can use indoors. Grounding has an impact to regulate your circadian rhythm. It also helps you sleep really well at night. And it also has an impact on lowering inflammation on the body. This is scientifically proven and there's research on [00:14:00] this and there's studies about this and it's pretty amazing. It also decreases the time for wound healing, which means that it heals the body really quickly. Native Americans have always talked about why it is so important and actually that the body can become sick if it doesn't ground. So grounding is incredibly important and one of the things that is often missed these days because we have rubber soles and our feet don't really have many opportunities to ground into the earth. And what grounding really means is having your feet touch the earth, whether it's sand, dirt, or grass. An opportunity where it's able to touch the earth directly. And by doing so, It actually impacts your body's electromagnetic frequency. Another thing that can be done besides yoga and qigong is also breath work. Breath work also has a direct impact on the mind. When your mind is nervous or stressed out, you typically will have that [00:15:00] reflect in your breath by being short what happens is when we're more relaxed, we actually breathe slower and deeper. So by breathing slower and deeper, you're actually able to impact the body. and create and induce a more calming effect immediately. And also by using belly breath, you can use the diaphragm. So it's diaphragmatic breathing, which can also impact your nervous system and calm it down. Something else you can do is humming. And by humming, you're creating a certain vibration that can impact your vagus nerve. So it basically stimulates the vagus nerve which can also have a very calming effect on your nervous system. You can also listen to music. So the sound vibration in certain types of music, not all music can have a very calming effect on your nervous system. And examples for that are solfeggio frequencies [00:16:00] and even sound bowls and even classical music. So those are sounds that can create more coherence and order in your mind and your body. Something else that you can do is also do some heart math exercises. Heart math institute is something that I would definitely suggest looking into. And what they study is the connection between the heart and the brain. And when your nervous system is more calm, it shows. And when your heart brain coherence has increased, there's more coherence and order and that induces a state of more calm and a more restorative state in your body. And of course I am very biased, but, I am very big on acupuncture, which is really how I got into it. I started out as a patient myself and acupuncture, the practice of acupuncture and getting treatments for acupuncture can be incredibly beneficial for your nervous system. It is so powerful isbecause it gets you into a state of deep relaxation. [00:17:00] And when you're able to deeply relax, your body is able to restore itself and regenerate and repair. So on that topic, one of the ways that it does that is using ear points, but you can actually use your fingers and massage your own ears because your whole body is reflected in your ears. You could do the same thing for your feet as well. And I would suggest also starting out a really nice sleep hygiene routine, which means lowering lights about an hour to two hours before you go to sleep. That is going to help restore your sleep. The more sleep you get, the more calm and at ease your nervous system is going to be. So those are my tips for calming and restoring your nervous system. So that concludes my tips on balancing your nervous system. and I hope that this episode shed some light on how intertwined our nervous system is with our fertility health And why it's so important to [00:18:00] nurture a balanced nervous system state. If you have any questions and have any ideas for future episodes. Feel free to reach out to me on instagram and my handle is at the wholesome lotus fertility I'm very active on instagram. So that is the best way to find me so thank you so much for tuning in today. Have a beautiful day. [00:19:00]
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Ep 329 Unlocking Fertility Through Yoga with Kerry Hinds
03/25/2025
Ep 329 Unlocking Fertility Through Yoga with Kerry Hinds
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Kerry Hinds , founder of Fertile Body Yoga, who shares her inspiring fertility journey and how yoga became an essential part of her path to motherhood. Kerry opens up about her struggles with infertility, navigating IVF abroad, and ultimately conceiving naturally after stepping away from treatments. She also discusses the benefits of fertility yoga for calming the nervous system, enhancing blood flow, and creating a supportive environment for conception. In this episode, you’ll learn how yoga can help balance your nervous system, why feeling safe is essential for fertility, and practical ways to integrate fertility yoga into your daily routine. This heartfelt conversation is filled with wisdom, hope, and practical tips for anyone on their fertility journey. Key Takeaways: Kerry’s personal fertility journey and challenges with IVF The pivotal moment when she conceived naturally after stepping away from treatments How fertility yoga supports the nervous system and reproductive health The importance of feeling safe and creating space within the body Practical tips on incorporating breathwork, movement, and mindfulness for fertility Guest Bio: Kerry Hinds is a certified E-RYT, RPYT, Relax and Renew® teacher, fertility yoga instructor, and Reiki practitioner. She founded Fertile Body Yoga to support individuals on their fertility journeys. Drawing from her personal experiences with fertility challenges, including undergoing treatments and experiencing pregnancy loss, Kerry offers compassionate guidance to her students. She leads weekly fertility yoga classes and provides various mind-body support programs through the Fertile Body Yoga Virtual Studio. Kerry is also the host of the "Fringe Fertility" podcast, where she explores holistic and alternative approaches to enhancing fertility. Websites/Social Media Links: Listen to her podcast: For more information about Michelle, visit www.michelleoravitz.com To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: https://www.michelleoravitz.com/thewayoffertility The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/2149554308396504/ Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: -------- Disclaimer: The information shared on this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Please consult with your healthcare provider before making any changes to your health or fertility care. Transcript: # TWF: Kerry Hinds [00:00:00] Episode number 329 of the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. My guest today is Carrie Hines. Carrie is the owner and founder of Fertile Body Yoga, a virtual yoga studio that is dedicated to supporting women navigating their fertility journey. She offers both live stream and on demand fertility yoga classes. and small group programs that embrace the complete journey physically, mentally, emotionally, energetically, spiritually, and socially. Carrie has been teaching yoga for over 20 years and has been specializing, teaching, and training almost solely fertility yoga for eight years. Her classes and offerings are informed by her own experiences with pregnancy loss, years of IVF, and eventually completing her family with two children. Carrie has supported thousands of women on their fertility journey so far and is on a mission to help women conceive and birth with yoga and community. Carrie also [00:01:00] hosts Fringe Fertility, a podcast that highlights supportive fertility practices beyond the doctor's office. **Michelle:** Welcome to the podcast. Carrie. I'm so happy to have you. **Kerry:** Thanks for having me, Michelle. I'm so happy to be here and spend some time with you today. **Michelle:** Yes. I would love for you to share your story first of all I love fertility yoga. I always suggest for my patients and my clients to do it It's something that I've personally myself have been really transformed by yoga in general. Many different types of yoga, a huge believer in it. And I also think that it's a, I call it an intelligent exercise. It's something that's been around for thousands of years and [00:02:00] really is a medicine in its own. So I would love for you to share your story and how you personally went through your own journey, but also how you combine fertility with yoga. **Kerry:** Okay. Yeah. I'll try and be a little bit concise cause I could go on and on for the, for a long time about this topic. But you know, as many listeners out there, you know, I didn't really start thinking about having kids till I was in my mid thirties. I took me a while to find the person I wanted to share my DNA with. Right. So when I did, we got married we moved to Germany and We went to Germany with the intention of this would be a good time for me to have kids. He's going to do his PhD. Germany has so many great social supports for families and so on. So we're like, Oh, it's just skim the cream off the top of that social system. And so when we got there, as often [00:03:00] happens, things don't go as planned when it comes to fertility. So we rolled into IUI. So we tried for six months, we found a clinic and. You know, we lived in old Eastern Germany, so it was hard to find English speaking doctors. So it was a very interesting time of my life. Not only was it just stressful in general dealing with what's going on and is this ever going to happen to living in another culture, another country? I didn't have a ton of support around, but then trying to navigate a new language that I was not fluent in. at all. So, I, you know, had one amazing friend there who spoke fluent, fluent German, American woman. And she's like,I will help you. And she went into those appointments with me, **Michelle:** oh **Kerry:** did all the **Michelle:** What a great friend **Kerry:** I know, I know. It was so amazing because I was so [00:04:00] lost at that time trying to figure out, like, just what's going on, but then how to say it in a different language or understand it in a different language. So for anybody who's doing this, fertility journey overseas or is here in North America It's not your mother tongue English, and you're trying to figure it out, I see you, I understand how this can add an extra level of stress to it. So we. You know, during that time, I actually went and did a yoga teacher training cause I was like, this isn't working. I want to do something for myself. So let's go get a yoga teacher training. I'd actually been teaching yoga for years before this was, so I've been teaching yoga for 20 years far before, This, you know, all these 200 hour yoga teacher trainings that, you know, you can sign up for one. No problem now. But back then it was your teacher [00:05:00] tapped you on the shoulder and said, Hey, do you want to be like, let's do this. And so that's kind of how I started yoga. But then when I was in Germany, I was like, okay, I need to, let's make this legit, right? Let's go get the training. I love it. I was teaching in Germany and so on. So that was sort of the, the main integration of the yoga into the fertility journey was just taking that bigger step to get the certification. And then, yeah, we went, we did IUIs. The first IUI was successful in that I got pregnant and, you know, 10 week ultrasound, there was no heartbeat. So we lost that baby. Yeah, and it was again, different culture, different bedside manners, different, it was just so stark. That's the word I could use for it. Shocking. It was just like, okay. The baby has no heartbeat. We're booking you in tomorrow for a DNC. Be there at 6 a. m. [00:06:00] You know, there was no time to, to, to absorb what was, to breathe, to figure out what I wanted. it was just like this snowball that was just like, okay, this has happened. You're going to do this. You're going to be better than you're going to start again. And you're going to keep trying and trying. So that's a whole other rabbit hole we could go down. But yeah, it was, it was a lot. It was a lot. And so we ended up going to do IVF, and this was, you know, 15 years ago. So things were maybe a little different than they are now. LikeICSI was just sort of a, more of a thing, right? It's Ooh, we're going to do this new cool thing. ICSI. I was like, okay. And they're like, and then there's embryo glue and we'll glue your embryo to your uterus. And it was all cutting edge at this time. And We did it. We did many cycles frozen cycles fresh cycles. Yeah, so many cycles and [00:07:00] nothing stuck, right? We had been doing IVF for two years and we kind of just paused and said, Is this, do we want to keep doing this?is this how we envision our life to be? And we wanted kids for sure, but we also wanted to start living our lives again. So that was a very pivotal moment in our journey is when we stepped away from IVF. We said, okay, we're done. I had gained weight. I wasn't feeling like myself. My body was weirdly puffy in different places and just, I was unhappy and I was emotional and I was just like, let's. Let's, let's walk away. And I remember my fertility doctor at the time, he said, you know, your chances of getting pregnant naturally are like one in a hundred million. Like you shouldn't be walking away from IVF. And I was like, you know, I'm okay. Like [00:08:00] I just, I need a break. And I walked away and a month and a half later I was pregnant. **Michelle:** Wow **Kerry:** intervention. And then nine months postpartum, I also was pregnant again by accident because we thought we had our miracle baby, right? So we were like, okay, whatever. And then I was pregnant again and through the whole journey, I was using yoga for my body, but more so for my energetic health, my mental, emotional health. So when we ended up coming back to the U S and moving to Boston, that was one of the first things I did. I did a prenatal yoga teacher training and I said, Hey, can we do fertility yoga? And she's like,I don't, I'm sure. I have no idea what it is. Tell me what it is. I'm like, either do I, but I'll get back to you. And that's sort of how the fertility yoga started. And [00:09:00] nobody was really doing it eight years ago. It was, **Michelle:** It's true **Kerry:** Like, there was nothing. There was a few people, there was a couple books out on it but I really spent a lot of time explaining. what it was that we were trying to do when we were doing like a fertility focused yoga practice. So that's kind of the story. That's the evolution. **Michelle:** Well, I love the story. I don't love that you went through the suffering through the story But I love the fact that you can it Prove with your story that when people tell you when you hear from doctors that you have one in a million chance or whatever that is, that is not necessarily the truth. That is their opinion. They say it very factually, and I think that that's where it gets very confusing for people. They say it very factually, and I'm not dismissing what doctors say because a lot of times it could be very accurate or they can, but I, I, what I don't love is Is when things are predicted because the body can be [00:10:00] so unpredictable. And it can also show so many signs that defy what it's going to do. So that's where, you know, I say just have an open mind or getting a second opinion is great. So, but I do love hearing those stories because I think when people who are going through that now and are probably listening to fertility podcasts because they want to get. Answers and hear other people's stories and when they hear stories like that it sparks some hope in their hearts So I think that that's really important **Kerry:** Yeah, I often get Students they'll ask me well what was it like right because this is what we want This is people don't want to do IVF if they don't have to and they're like, what was it? what happened and I was like, I cannot tell you I can't tell you a hundred percent that it was the yoga that I was doing or you know All the other lifestyle changes I was doing but something came [00:11:00] together You magically all together at the right time and this baby happened and if I had to choose one word for it, it would be exhale because there was this feeling that my body was no longer having to perform like it felt safe because I wasn't going in for you know, all these procedures and like they're. You know, minimally invasive, but you're still like vaginal ultrasounds and people poking around down there and all the operations that come with it. Anesthesia, all those sorts of things. And yeah, it's, it's a lot. So my body was like, whew, thank you. Thank you. Let me just be. And I think the mental piece was just like that. I wasn't going to go back to it. At least anytime soon. So my, my body was actually believing [00:12:00] me, right? And I don't think it's It's something that you can fake. It's not a time, like I had to go through those two years of IVF and pregnancy loss to get to that point. I don't think that there's we can't just kind of skip over it and be like, Oh, I'm just going to think this now and I'm going to get pregnant naturally. So it's a process. That's it. you know, everybody's journey is different and we just need to give ourselves a little bit of space sometimes to integrate what's going on and give our bodies that exhale, which is so important. Mm. **Michelle:** I love that you say that because actually exhaling longer can simulate your, parasympathetic nervous system, which is the rest and digest mode, which many times the majority of us in response to life are in the fight or flight mode. And especially when we feel unsafe. And I love that you use the word safe because when we feel unsafe, Then [00:13:00] we're really not in a creative mode. We don't create even like mentally when we're not feeling safe. **Kerry:** Yeah. **Michelle:** When we feel safe, we're able to create, we're able to let go and our body's able to create, and that's a, it's a state of growth. So I love that you talk about that. And I think that one of the commonalities between yoga and acupuncture, which actually they're related in many ways. And because it's really about moving the energy because yoga is connected to Ayurveda. Ayurveda has Marma points and yoga is actually a branch of Ayurveda. it's part of the medicine of the physicality of the body and moving the energy. **Kerry:** Yep. **Michelle:** Qigong is sort of the yoga of Chinese medicine. So it's very related. And I think one of the biggest commonalities or one of the ways I think it really works is it's all about the nervous system. **Kerry:** 100 percent it, the nervous system. Like when I, [00:14:00] even these days I, when I'm talking to somebody, I'm like, I'm talking to a person. Yes. But I'm interacting with a nervous system. So with the words that I'm saying my body language or how I look at them, right? Like it, it all is interacting with third nervous system. So how are we working with nervous systems? And when we show up, in fertility world supporting people. For me, the huge part of fertility yoga is how do we harness this parasympathetic, I call it rest, digest and reproduce. That's what I call it, just **Michelle:** Yeah. I love that. Yes. **Kerry:** Because what it is, it **Michelle:** Yup. **Kerry:** It's what yoga is so good at, sadly, right? Like our Western culture view of yoga has been a little focused almost exclusively on exercise and gymnastic style yoga. But [00:15:00] really traditionally, like you said, it was about the marma. It was about the energetic lines running through you and wherever you find that imbalance, you can work with the energetic field to create balance again. And as you know, the Marma points and acupuncture and pressure points are like following very similar lines and it's powerful. But it's subtle, right? **Michelle:** Right. it's **Kerry:** explain. Yeah, like it's hard to explain exactly what's happening but it is, it's so powerful and it can really be transformative for how we, how we navigate the journey as embracing that, the quiet side, the quiet side of things. **Michelle:** Yes. And I think that the way we connect with it is through feeling. Right. Because that is ultimately how we do it, but we can't feel or pay attention to what we're feeling when we're distracted all the time by the noise of the world. So we're constantly disrupted by the [00:16:00] noise. It's very disrupting actually for our nervous system. We don't realize it because we're so used to it. You could be used to things that are really not healthy for you and listen, you know, hearing the outside noise. And the loud noises of construction, you know, the normal life, if you're living in the city, the constant sirens and honking, and, you know, those things are actually very taxing on the nervous system. And they put us in a fight or flight mode because our bodies don't really recognize them isn't in the natural world. So it stimulates a more fight and flight response. So having that counter balance with practices like yoga. In calming the nervous system. And what I love about yoga is that it includes breath, all the things that really stimulate the vagus nerve mantra sound. So you're able to tune your vibration and breath. Which is also very calming because if you exhale longer, like there's certain controlled breath [00:17:00] where you're able to control your brain through breath and even movement, somatic energy work and emotions that we can at least much more easily, like that control, but manage with our bodies. **Kerry:** Yeah. I couldn't say it better myself, Michelle. That was perfect. I think one thing, right, like we, we, we know that the fertility journey is stressful. We know that life is stressful. We know that we're probably living in a heightened state in our sympathetic more than we, we would like to. And yeah, the yoga piece can just. hit so many things. And one thing we need to remember is that we are created like evolutionarily are, you know, we are more attuned to the stresses, right? For survival. So the loud, the loud noises, it [00:18:00] alerts us to look around and see, Oh, is there something coming for me? Or the bright lights and things like that. Like we're just constantly Like our bodies are looking out to keep us safe all the time. And we're tuned to that, right, that our bodies are naturally tuned to go in that direction. And there's way more stimuli that will take us that way. And then with the other side, the parasympathetic, we have to work harder and more intentionally to go there. And I think that is one of the things that is the hardest is you actually need to train the system to be more fluid. It's not the stress isn't going to go away. Stress isn't going to go away, but if you are training your nervous system to float more evenly back and forth between the two and taking the time to go parasympathetic as best that you can, whether it's with the breath or [00:19:00] with yoga or going for a walk in nature or anything like that You're rebalancing, but we have to make more effort that is just the way we're, we're built. And yeah, like things that will help us be calmer are like dim lights, quietude, support. So like lying down flat. So our body doesn't have to be alert, like even sitting, we have to be alert. So we might not fall over weight. Unless you're claustrophobic, of course so yeah, there's lots of things that we can add, and yoga does that. Restorative yoga, which is a huge piece of how I teach fertility yoga it, that is what it does. those are the things that we're embracing when we do restorative yoga. **Michelle:** I love restorative yoga. **Kerry:** Me too. **Michelle:** Oh, it feels so good. It really just feels so good. And you know what? I love to. I...
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Ep 328 How Glutathione Supports Fertility, Detoxification, and Overall Health with Dr. Nayan Patel
03/18/2025
Ep 328 How Glutathione Supports Fertility, Detoxification, and Overall Health with Dr. Nayan Patel
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined by Dr. Nayan Patel , a pharmacist, researcher, and glutathione expert, to explore the critical role glutathione plays in fertility and overall health. Dr. Patel shares his journey from traditional pharmacy to developing a breakthrough delivery system for glutathione through the skin, and why this antioxidant is essential for protecting egg and sperm quality. In this episode, you’ll learn how oxidative stress impacts fertility, why diet alone might not be enough, and how his innovative technology can support the body’s natural detoxification process. Be sure to tune in for this fascinating conversation packed with practical advice and insights for anyone on the fertility journey! Key Takeaways: Glutathione is the body’s most abundant and powerful antioxidant. It plays a vital role in protecting reproductive health by reducing oxidative stress. Most oral supplements don’t get absorbed effectively, making Dr. Patel's skin-delivery innovation a game-changer. A healthy lifestyle and cysteine-rich foods are essential for maintaining glutathione levels. Guest Bio: Dr. Nayan Patel is a highly sought-after pharmacist, wellness expert, and thought leader in his industry. Since 1999, he has collaborated with physicians to custom-develop medications and design patient-specific drug and nutrition regimens. As the pharmacist of choice for celebrities, CEOs, and physicians alike, Dr. Patel is recognized for his innovative approach to health and wellness. He is the author of The Glutathione Revolution: Fight Disease, Slow Aging & Increase Energy, which distills over a decade of clinical research on the master antioxidant, glutathione. His patented technology for delivering glutathione topically has revolutionized how the body absorbs this essential molecule. From this breakthrough, he also created the Auro GSH Antioxidant Delivery System, a skincare line designed to deliver antioxidants more efficiently and effectively than ever before. Websites/Social Media Links: For more information about Michelle, visit To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: Facebook: ------------------------------- Transcript: # TWF: Dr. Nayan Patel [00:00:00] [00:01:00] **Michelle Oravitz:** So welcome to the podcast, Dr. Patel. **Dr. Nayan Patel:** Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate the time today. **Michelle Oravitz:** Yes, I'm very excited to talk about what we are going to discuss, which is glutathione. But before we get to that, I would love to get your backstory and how you got into the work that you're doing today. **Dr. Nayan Patel:** Oh my god, absolutely. So start off as a pharmacist, as a career as a pharmacist, and after graduation [00:02:00] from pharmacy school. In Southern California, we were, we were trained to take care of the patient's needs and medications. And very quickly I realized that the medications we have at that time were actually not solving any problem. They were just maintaining people's problems. And very, very early on, you know, you have an aha moment in your life. That oh my god, what what did I just do right? Oh, I'm just not solving any problems So I had to turn my career to a completely different angle no former educations in in making medications or doing compounding or customizing medications that dive into the that practice and 25 years later here we are today and looking back at that and said, what a journey, what a turning point I had, because it shaped me for who I am today. I had the privilege of making medications and design treatment plans and drug plans for so many individuals helping them in their health and wellness journey. And then all [00:03:00] roads led to me to a discovery of a novel technology that can deliver glutathione. And it all started because I was just curious to find out how we can help people solve their own problems instead of trying to figure out medications to solve the problems. Right? Even though glutathione is not a, it's, it's something that body produces internally we're using it as a supplement today, but. And overall my goal was not to do anything and just enhance the body's own ability to to defend itself. And so here we are today it's a very interesting career for me for sure. **Michelle Oravitz:** For sure. And first of all, just for people listening that don't really know much about glutathione, I'd love for you to share really what it is and also why it could be so challenging to supplement with. **Dr. Nayan Patel:** Absolutely. so the glutathione in a nutshell Is three amino acids coming together in a single chain. It's a one of the smallest form of peptides we have You two amino acid chains, three amino [00:04:00] acid chains, four, five, 30, 40, 50, and thousands of the chains as well. The simplest form, of course, is glutathione, which is about three amino acids coming together. It's by far the most abundant molecule produced in the human body. And if that's produced so much, we ought to know what it's supposed to do for us. And so that's what my research came back for 140 years that we have known about glutathione. Nobody's ever figured out how to actually get inside your body. And so, 60 years ago, 70 years ago, we had a medication approved by FDA to enhance glutathione level. And as of today, that is the only medication that has been approved ever. In the whole, in the whole world, which is N acetylcysteine, which is one of the amino acids that's been used to produce chlorothione. And that's the only thing that has been available for the last 60, 70 years. **Michelle Oravitz:** So let's talk about what so we definitely, that's one of the things that um, I've been doing for egg health and also sperm [00:05:00] quality, cause it's such a high potent antioxidant. And one of the things that I have always suggested is N acetylcysteine because that's the precursor and we knew that that was like the one way that the body was able to produce it. Okay. Thank you. But then there were some supplements that still supplement with glutathione, liposomal, like different ways, which I know are not really shelf stable. So there's always been challenges with that, but before we continue on with that, I'd love for people to hear, like, what glutathione can benefit, how it can benefit the body. **Dr. Nayan Patel:** So, I understand your audience is interested more in the fertility side of the whole thing. So, you're dealing with rather younger individuals overall which is a good sign because younger patients have, everything at their disposal for the body to respond to even the smallest amount of nutrients that they receive. If the same amount of nutrients is given to an 85 year old person, they're not [00:06:00] going to feel anything, right? But if 20 year old person gets a small amount of good nutrition, they respond very, very well. And so I want to make sure that people understand that **Michelle Oravitz:** And also just to kind of mention um, sometimes we have 40 year olds too, that are trying to conceive or like trying to do IVF. So just kind of like, yeah, the whole, **Dr. Nayan Patel:** They're still spring chicken to **Michelle Oravitz:** okay. Okay. It's good for them to hear that. **Dr. Nayan Patel:** I mean, I've helped people in the very, I mean, in the late forties to get babies as well. So it's not something that's not doable. It's just gets incredibly hard after the age of 40. So it's, not that easy to do so, but the glutathione has multiple properties and understanding what glutathione does is, monument in over. in our therapies because with the two things that we do know is it's the ability for glutathione as an antioxidant to detoxify, neutralize all the free radicals in your body. But the second component is also help you detoxify by conjugating [00:07:00] inside your liver with metabolites and chemicals binding to them. So we can basically get rid of it from from your body. So the two functions that we do know That exists today. There's a lot more research still existing that we need to do. So we, we still are urging researchers to go back and use this new technology product and see if we can find out more things that glutathione can do for us. So one two the sperm or the egg quality is dependent on how your body is able to neutralize those free radicals. Those free radicals are actually toxic to all the embryonic membranes and embryos itself and the quality of the sperm and the egg itself. And neutralizing those free radical of body, there's three ways to do that part. One, you take outside products like vitamin C, and vitamin E, and CoQ10, and and C60s, and I mean, methylene blues, I mean, there's a slew of products that says, oh, we are so called antioxidants, right? So that's [00:08:00] category one. The category two of the products are produced endogenously inside your body are enzymes like catalase, supra oxide, puase, SOD, for short glutathione peroxidase, or GPX for short. So these are the enzymes that the body produces to deal with the oxidative stress or the free radicals. Okay, so those are the category one are the category two. The third category is only one product, which is glutathione. And if you look at it, the body produces so much of glutathione, and the effects of glutathione is so powerful, that if you combine the category one, which is all the antioxidants from outside sources, and the enzymes that your body produces, those two combine, Glutathione can surpass the antioxidant properties. And so I want listeners to understand very carefully is that the glutathione needs to be a basic cornerstone in everybody's arsenal. Every medicine chest in the world should have a [00:09:00] bottle says glutathione And in that bottle either you have a product or it have a note saying that eat healthy food to Let your body produce its own glutathione Either way that note has to be there on every medicine chest out there and you're right There's so much noise out there I want to cut to the noise today because if you just put your favorite search engine or your ai robot is going to tell you hey glirathion, there are a thousand different products out there. Choose one You Right. And as a consumer it's very hard to find out what to choose correctly and people hide behind a great technologies that that exists in the world and said, Oh, my, my product uses this technology. So it's the best one in the world. And you mentioned liposome technology, by the way, I just will let, you know, we were one of the very first few people that actually use liposome to produce the first liposomal glutathione. This was 25 plus years ago, right? And we made the liposome because at that time that was the [00:10:00] best technology that existed in the pharmaceutical world. And the doctor that owned the patents for those came to me and said, Hey, we've been very successful in making this for medications. Can you help me make nutraceuticals with it? Like vitamin C and CoQ10 and PQQ and S Xanthine and Glutathione and so on and so forth. And so we made the products for that doctor. And then a couple of years later. Some work, some did not work. Gluten was one of the products that did not work. So I go back and says, why is that working on everybody? The question I always ask is, hey, it helped my girlfriend. How come it's not helping me? Or it helped my sister. Why, how come it's not helping me? What, what, what am I, how am I different than the other human beings? and in reality, only your face is different. Internally, we are identical. A body has the same heart, the same organs, everything is the same, right? So we have not changed for the last 40, 000 plus years, [00:11:00] how to expect that I'm different than my sister, or I'm different than my girlfriend, or whatever, right? Maybe your genomic mixture is different, but your overall organs and organ systems are identical. And so to me, I said, okay, if it works in one person, it should work on everybody. If I get absorption in one person, I guess you should get absorption in everybody. What's the rate limiting factor? Why is it not happening? And so I didn't have answers at that time. I did not know what to do. So next story is that, okay, you know what? I'll make the intravenous form of glutathione. Hey, if I inject him into the bloodstream, my job's done. Again, took me a few months to figure that portion out how to make that part. And yes, This is long story short, we were Well, again, we were one of the first company pharmacy early on in 2001 to make the injectable form of glutathione. Now, very quickly, we realized that the effects of this glutathione was very short, right? And then I looked back in the research and said, there was a study done in 1991 [00:12:00] saying that if once you inject glutathione, it only stays in the body for between four It takes five to 15 minutes and everything gets destroyed or gets, get, get, it gets into the urine and you pee it out, but an hour and a half later, there was an increase of cysteine, which is one of the amino acids that went up in the blood. And so the researchers concluded that the body was breaking down this glutathione and cysteine was getting reabsorbed by the body and cysteine is being used for your body to produce its own glutathione. I said, okay, I don't care how the body makes it. As long as the body has a gluten, I don't care. But the results were very short lived. And I don't know if you know this thing, but back in early 2000s, one of the doctors came to me. I said, Hey, if it's short lived, that's okay. Let me take you to Vegas because when people drink, they deplete their glutathione levels. If it only stays for 15 minutes, I can revive somebody who's passed out drunk of their minds and I can get them. So. He literally took this product to Vegas and [00:13:00] start helping patients. I read scripts for those kinds of things. And again, I have nothing to do with it. I, unfortunately, I was just the supplier and I was just the maker of the product, but we saved so many lives. We helped so many people, but we were, we learned one thing that the action was not long term. And if I want the long term benefits, because if it's one of your patient, if it's one of your listener, who's, who's trying to get pregnant she, or he has to plan for A 30 day cycle, not a 15 minute. Give me some push right now and I'll be done. No, it's a 30 day cycle. You have to plan everything methodically, right? What am I supposed to do from day one to day seven and from day seven to day 14. And after ovulation, what do I do? And after post ovulation, if there's an embryo implantation, what do I do? And so on and so forth. It's a, it's a whole process and your body needs to be clean this whole time. And none of the products were actually getting the results I was looking for. Later on, I found out, this was 2011 [00:14:00] University of Texas in Austin did a study on the liposome technology product of glirathione. And what they found out was same thing that they saw in intravenous form. The body actually breaks down the glirathione, never absorbs a single molecule of it. Absorbs the cysteine and cysteine is later used to produce his own glutathione. And the end story is, it still works. It still works. But people need to understand, just because it works, it does not mean your body absorbed it. And there's a there's a difference between that one and maybe some people may not appreciate that part But I do appreciate that part because in my case i'm dealing with thousands of patients across the country across the globe now And I want to make sure that I want to give assurance to everybody that hey if I give you a glutathione product No matter what it is going to get inside your body [00:15:00] and absorb it And so the liposome technology product was great until now People got a lot of people got results for almost 80 got results from it but not because it absorbs it because the body was able to Conjugate or take the cysteine and make its own glirathione today Today the things have changed now. Why? because 15 20 years ago We started doing gene testing gene snips You Right at that time it was nobody can afford it. I was fifteen twenty thousand dollars for a blood test Oh gosh, no, nobody can afford that today Same test is 200 bucks 300 bucks, **Michelle Oravitz:** Right. **Dr. Nayan Patel:** right? So now what's happened is that now everybody's doing these gene testings And finally got hey, do I have gene mutation where my body cannot produce gluothione if the answer is yes Then I don't care how much product you take from outside sources, the body is not [00:16:00] able to effectively produce glutathione correctly all the time. And so that to me is one more proof, one more proof that we need a product that your body can actually accept it, incorporate into their own DNA and use it when it needs to. Anyways, I just went off too many tangents no, Thanks very much, interesting. I want you to continue. So how did you find out and, and like how did you discover the product that you have now and what kind of technology does it use and how does it really impact the body? Absolutely. Those **Michelle Oravitz:** nerd in me wants to know **Dr. Nayan Patel:** Yeah. All great, great questions. And I want to, I really want to be an open book. I don't want to hide any information from anybody so that I'll be more than happy to open it up and let everybody know. So earlier when I first started the book. So we had a, we had a couple of barriers. One, what we knew was the body's not going to take any peptides, any amino acid chains to get it to and incorporate it into their own DNA. [00:17:00] What we, what I found out was the body has to make 100 percent of all peptides in the body, the body has to make it. Right. So we knew that I knew that part very early on. So I said, okay, there is no way on earth I'll be able to make a product that your body can use it up. Okay, so now I had to figure out Okay, how do I get this simple tripeptide three amino acid chain peptides into the body? So I first of all, I want to do, I want to create a stable molecule because if I have a stable molecule in my lab, I can work with it. If it's unstable, I don't have time to really experiment on it, right? So my first goal was to make a stable molecule. So that we achieved pretty fast. It took us a couple of years when we got the stable molecule. We took it by mouth. Again what we saw was Sistine went up, so it was not working really, it was getting broken down. We scored into the nose, I said, and if the nose was burning, I said, oh, nobody's going to use this on a daily basis. Of course not, right? It's not a, it's not a fun thing to do. I knew the [00:18:00] injectables was a little bit of an uphill battle because it requires FD approval and all those things. I said, you know what? The only route that was remaining was skin route. And of course, skin is a physical barrier, right? So it's a physical barrier that I have to overcome. And the physical barrier is, is a particle size barrier. So I had to reduce the particle size so small, It can get through the cracks or the pores of your skin and get inside your body. So that was the first challenge I had, which we were able to crack the code in about a couple of years. We had to take this peptides, twist it in such a form that doesn't get broken apart and gets a small, you know, like when you twist the towel, you know how it gets smaller and smaller and smaller, but you twist enough, it can get really small. And so that's what we did with this molecule. It forces microscopically, and we were able to reduce the particle size to much smaller. We got to the skin. The bigger challenge is...
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Ep 327 Why Unexplained Infertility Is a Symptom, Not the Problem— with Gabriela Rosa
03/11/2025
Ep 327 Why Unexplained Infertility Is a Symptom, Not the Problem— with Gabriela Rosa
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined by world-renowned fertility specialist and Harvard-awarded scholar, Gabriela Rosa , founder of The Rosa Institute. Gabriela has dedicated her career to helping couples overcome infertility, miscarriage, and failed treatments to create healthy families. With over 20 years of experience, her Fertility Breakthrough Program™ boasts a remarkable 78.8% success rate, even for couples who had previously faced long-standing fertility challenges. In this episode, Gabriela explains why infertility is a symptom of deeper health issues and shares how addressing these root causes not only improves fertility but also enhances overall health. She also delves into her innovative, evidence-based approach that combines modern science and natural medicine to deliver transformative results. Be sure to tune in for this enlightening conversation packed with practical advice and hope for anyone navigating the fertility journey! Key Takeaways: Infertility, miscarriage, and failed treatments are symptoms of deeper health imbalances. Gabriela’s Fertility Breakthrough Program™ has helped thousands of couples worldwide overcome complex fertility challenges. Addressing the root causes of infertility leads to better reproductive outcomes and long-term health benefits. Low AMH does not mean no baby—natural conception is possible with the right interventions. Fertility challenges are clues pointing to underlying health issues that need attention. Thorough testing and a personalized approach are key to addressing unexplained infertility. Integrating natural and modern medicine optimizes fertility outcomes and overall health. Ignoring infertility as a symptom can increase the risk of chronic illnesses like diabetes and cardiovascular disease. Fertility is a whole-body process—issues with egg or sperm quality often stem from broader health concerns. Community and support are essential for navigating the emotional challenges of infertility. Guest Bio: Gabriela Rosa is a world-renowned fertility specialist, author, and Harvard-awarded scholar. She is the founder of The Rosa Institute and creator of the Fertility Breakthrough Program™, which has transformed the lives of over 140,000 couples in 110+ countries. Gabriela’s work focuses on addressing the root causes of infertility using an evidence-based approach that combines modern science with natural medicine. With extensive training in reproductive health, naturopathy, and public health, Gabriela is passionate about empowering couples to achieve their dream of parenthood while improving their long-term health and well-being. Websites/Social Media Links: Website: Facebook: Instagram: Fertility Breakthourgh Instagram: Fertility Breakthourgh Facebook: For more information about Michelle, visit To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: The Wholesome Fertility facebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: Facebook: Transcript: [00:00:00] [00:00:04] [00:01:00] [00:01:47] [00:01:47] **Michelle Oravitz:** Welcome to the podcast, Gabriela. [00:01:55] **Gabriela Rosa:** Thank you so much, Michelle. It's so lovely to be here. [00:01:58] **Michelle Oravitz:** So lovely meeting you. We just [00:02:00] had a really nice pre chat and I would love for you. I always like to hear an origin story. I would love to get your background and how you got into the work that you're doing right now. [00:02:11] **Gabriela Rosa:** And sure. Look, I think if for me, I've been doing this work since 2001. So it feels like a very long time, probably because it is. when I start seeing my patience, babies graduating from university. I'm [00:02:23] **Michelle Oravitz:** Oh my God. That is crazy. Cause you look so young. [00:02:27] **Gabriela Rosa:** Oh, thank you. It must be all those herbs and nutrients, you know, but, it's funny because like, that's exactly last two years ago, I had this experience of like seeing, literally seeing one of my babies graduating from university and thinking, Oh my God, where did the time go? [00:02:44] You know, like, that's just crazy, but, but it's, it's been wonderful. It's been a wonderful journey. don't know that I have. In a way, I think that, you know, we, as, Steve Jobs says, you can't, or said, you can't join the [00:03:00] dots in advance. You know, sometimes you can only join the dots in retrospect. And as I look back, I think, you know, I don't know that I planned to be where I am, but in a way I plan to be exactly where I am, if you know what I mean. [00:03:14] It's a very strange kind of [00:03:17] **Michelle Oravitz:** It found you. [00:03:19] **Gabriela Rosa:** certainly found me, that's for sure. and it was really through my experiences with patients that That it shaped the specific area that we focus on because we really only treat couples who typically have been experiencing infertility, miscarriage, failed treatments, and really have, you know, have tried everything and nothing has worked like that's who we treat. [00:03:41] And it certainly didn't start out that way. My, passion when I first started doing what I do was that I wanted to make sure We had a contribution to making the world a better place, one healthier baby at a time. And I really had in my young mind that I wanted to help as many people who wanted to have a baby to [00:04:00] prepare, to do preconception preparation, to be the healthiest version of themselves because we know epigenetics matters. [00:04:06] We know that the way in which, you know, prospective parents go into a conception attempt and certainly conception in general will. either increase or improve the health of a child or, decrease it, you know, there is no zero net some kind of effect. There's only ever always positive or negative effects. [00:04:26] Neutral effects are generally kind of weighed down to negative effects. So for me, and I'll talk more about that if you want to, but, you know, for me, it was that whole idea that I wanted to ensure That we were making that contribution. And it was interesting because although some people were really interested in being the healthiest that they could be, most people were not, most people are like, Oh, this is just too much work. [00:04:50] Let's just start trying. And if we have a problem, then we can do something about it. And that was never really my attitude towards it because the way that I see certainly the [00:05:00] work that we do. There is another layer to it, which is not so much about the physical and the functional. Although, of course, we address that our program has a 78. [00:05:09] 8 percent success rate for people who previously, you know, were infertile, lots of failed treatments and all of those things. And we validated those results through my masters in public health at Harvard. So we know that, you know, what we're doing certainly makes a difference. But. It really, for me, the undercurrent and the underlayer of why I wanted to do this work was actually for self actualization of the patients who came to us, you know, it was for really being able to reach one's full potential in terms of health and how that impacted other areas their life. [00:05:43] And that's how I wanted to work. And the people who were coming in for preparation really were not into that kind of work. And so I started to see that the people who are more in alignment with the work that I wanted to do and the legacy that I wanted to leave in the world were the people who [00:06:00] were having difficulty. [00:06:01] And so I started to kind of focus more and gravitate more towards, you know, those, challenging experiences and how to help people overcome them and, Transition and almost kind of transmute what they were going through. And about five or six years into it all, I had a patient who really changed the trajectory of my whole career. [00:06:25] And she had been referred to me by a friend who thought that she should have a conversation with me. She had been infertile for 10 years. She had done multiple failed IVF cycles at the time. And even though now I talk about that case and it's kind of like, Every day in the office for me at the time, it was the first time that I was seeing that. [00:06:44] And so I was like, Ooh, I don't know that we can help that kind of sit or that I can help that kind of situation. You know, I don't know that there's much that I can do, but she was really insistent and quite adamant. I actually talked to her the other day and told her this story because she didn't even know. [00:06:57] Yeah. And she was like, Oh my God, that's so [00:07:00] amazing to know. But you know, it's, what I ended up happening was that because she was so insistent at doing something, she said to me, she said, look, it's going to be my last try. I'm not going to do any more treatment after this. You know, I'm getting older. I don't want to continue this. [00:07:15] It's been long enough. So I said, look, that's fine. Let's do what we need to do and we'll see what kind of result we get. And Three months later, after years of nothing working, she was actually, it was about four months later, she was pregnant and I was like, Oh, okay. So there's, there's something here, you know, but then at the same time, I thought, Oh, that's, that's strange. [00:07:33] I actually doubted my own, my own results, you know, I was like, Ooh, I don't know, I don't really know if this is just one of those. Luke situations, you know, one of those kind of like random occurrences. But then there was another patient who came to me not long after her, who was infertile for 19 years and yeah, and then I was really like going, [00:07:54] **Michelle Oravitz:** Wow. [00:07:55] **Gabriela Rosa:** I really don't think that I can do anything for you. [00:07:57] She was 44 by the time she came to me. I [00:08:00] had a conversation with her. I said, look, it's not usually, obviously what walks through my door is not 19 years of infertility, but just recently I had a lady who had been trying for 10 years. We can give it a go and see what happens. And we did that. About five or six months later, she was pregnant. [00:08:15] And so I was like, okay, now to, you know, randomness can occur, but to is a bit like a lot. and so I started to, after we had that, success, so I had that kind of experience. I started to then really decide that, okay, you know what, I'm only going to treat people who have been. Trying for more than two years and nothing has worked. [00:08:37] And I did that for many, many years. And when I finally went to do our study for the for the fertility breakthrough program and its results when I was doing my masters at Harvard, we realized that Yes, we had a 78. 8 percent live birth rate for people who had been infertile for almost four years on average, plus or minus almost [00:09:00] three years. [00:09:00] So it really helped me to realize that, okay, this definitely makes it, you know, what we do and the methodology that we use, and that obviously I've developed over the years. really does make a difference to address these really difficult, complex cases of couples who, and individuals as well, you know, sometimes we do get solo reproduction patients who come to us who have been experiencing FALD, or egg cycle, or IVF cycle, but mostly couples who know that there is more that they kind of intrinsically know there's more they can do, but they don't know what. [00:09:34] And they also are very unclear typically about why it's not working. You know, they have these unexplained diagnosis of either infertility or failed treatment or miscarriage, and they keep being told, Oh, everything is normal. Just keep trying. And we know that clearly, What is normal is that you have sex, you get pregnant, you hold your baby, that's normal. [00:09:59] A [00:10:00] deviation from that tells me that, okay, there's more that we need to ask in terms of what's going on here and certainly more that we need to answer if we're going to get somewhere. So that's how it all started. And I guess that's how it's going, you know, [00:10:13] **Michelle Oravitz:** That's awesome. I mean, those stories are pretty amazing. I mean, really, really like shockingly amazing. And a couple of things came to mind as you were talking about it. And I love the fact that you were saying about really approaching a person that To make them more vital, like to really improve their overall wellbeing. [00:10:33] And rather than just focusing on disease, you're really focusing on their health and seeing them in almost a positive light. And it is actually, we don't really notice this, but it is actually a perspective. of many healthcare professionals or like older types of healthcare, like not older, I guess more like conventional. [00:10:53] Sometimes they'll focus more on the symptoms and we always say like root cause versus symptoms rather than just [00:11:00] focusing on treating disease. It's like treating health and really kind of a more positive way to approach the journey. [00:11:08] **Gabriela Rosa:** You know, what's interesting is that we see these days that fertility, and I say fertility rather than infertility. Fertility is highly medicalized, right? So it's, it's about finding the problem and treating a problem as if The ovaries and the testicles, i. e. the egg and the sperm, were the only parts that make this process happen. [00:11:36] And we know that it's not. And, you know, what's interesting about it, and I think that, you know, to speak to what you're talking about, the issues here are so much greater than where we find ourselves, because it's a, it's a healthcare system problem. The reality of it is that when it comes to prevention, typically public health is focused on [00:12:00] prevention and the healthcare system is focused on the treatment of disease. [00:12:03] And we see that when it comes to fertility a lot and what ends up happening as a result of it is that It really is just focusing on like, it's almost like, you know, you've got a sore finger. Okay, let's chop that off and fix that problem. Hopefully you don't get to chop it off, but you know, that's typically how it, how it's approached. [00:12:24] And so what ends up happening is that the entire context of the human being that is meant to produce the result of, which really fertility is a, is an outcome. But it's also a retrospective outcome. You know that it's you're holding a baby once you are, like whatever happens before that moment happens is essentially a part of what is going to lead to whatever outcome you have. [00:12:51] And so I always talk about it from this perspective. If you are experiencing Challenges in terms of getting pregnant, keeping a healthy pregnancy to term, [00:13:00] these are end results of many biochemical chain reactions that start all the way, you know, way before the result is meant to occur. What IVF tries to do is immediately work from like the immediate part that you can see, i. [00:13:15] e. egg and sperm. But the reality of it is that there's only so much leverage when it's not very much that you can get from only trying to address those cells, as opposed to all of the biochemical pathways that are leading to the creation of the cells in the way that they are. And that's part of why IVF its own, often fails, because one, it's not looking and addressing What are the reasons as to why we need IVF to begin with? [00:13:41] And what is it that we need to do to improve the chances of conception occurring, whether it's via natural conception or via IVF? I also want to really kind of underline and highlight the point that whether we're talking about any kind of reproductive challenge, whether we're talking about [00:14:00] infertility or miscarriage or failed IVF treatments, It's almost like those are clues. [00:14:05] They're not results. They're not the outcome because the outcome of reproduction is a baby. So if we're having failures in that process that are leading us to not hold our baby, it tells us that, okay, the clues that we have are the symptoms that we're experiencing. Infertility, miscarriage, failed treatments. [00:14:26] Those are symptoms. Right, really to a large extent. And what that means is that we need to treat them as such, because if we don't address the red flags that are infertility on its own, miscarriages on its own, and failed treatments on its own, because failed treatments is relevant here, because the that you have an egg and a sperm together, you have an embryo. You have a baby right in that moment. You have a baby when you transfer an embryo for treatment, [00:15:00] you are pregnant at the time of transfer. No matter what you are pregnant. So if you don't see a positive pregnancy test. That tells us that implantation has failed and that tells us that, okay, there's something there that we need to address. [00:15:14] Why is it failing? Most doctors, most providers don't care about it. They literally just say, oh, you know, it's a like, it's a numbers game. It's the luck of the draw. Just keep trying. Everything is normal. Just keep trying. When I hear that, literally, this is why I have so much gray hair. Because when [00:15:30] **Michelle Oravitz:** But you have beautiful skin. [00:15:34] **Gabriela Rosa:** when I hear that, I just go, Oh my God, like, how can we keep believing this lie that everything is normal, just keep trying whilst we're having very clear symptoms, infertility, miscarriage, failed treatment, that things aren't quite right. [00:15:49] What we also know about these symptoms, and I like to call them symptoms because really, That is what they are. They're telling us that there is some imbalance within the system that [00:16:00] often left unaddressed will lead. It's not may lead. It is will lead to other health conditions being developed in the long term. [00:16:09] And we know that being studies about this that show that. For people who have an infertility diagnosis and just bypass it with any other kind of treatment rather than addressing IVF etc, rather than addressing the issue, what happens is that the risk and the rate of all cause mortality in the future is higher. [00:16:35] So people who are diagnosed with infertility who don't treat it. actually die from all other causes, cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, at a higher rate than people who actually address their problems. And this was demonstrated to happen and be true for females and for males. So literally, if you're not addressing infertility as a symptom, [00:17:00] you are digging yourself a hole sooner and at a younger age than you otherwise would want to. [00:17:07] Now, I know that this is unpopular and most people are going to feel very confronted by hearing something like this, but the reality is that, sure, you can go and bypass infertility and the symptoms of infertility and go into IVF and get a baby. But are you going to have the quality of life and the ability to be here to raise that child in the long term? [00:17:29] That's a very important question that people need to ask themselves before they simply just jump onto, you know, overcoming the issue with a band aid and just fixing it as opposed to actually truly addressing the root cause of the problem and finding what is the problem. You know, because there are things, for example, if you have antiphospholipid syndrome, which increases the risk of miscarriage, that's also a marker for cardiovascular disease in the long term. [00:17:59] So you're [00:18:00] literally like, if you are ignoring it for, and just take heparin, take whatever to be able to actually take home a baby and not really addressing the underlying concerns that your body is telling you than a present. Well, You are certainly increasing your risk of...
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Ep 326 How Stress Impacts Fertility and What You Can Do About It
03/04/2025
Ep 326 How Stress Impacts Fertility and What You Can Do About It
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I am joined by the incredible , a pioneer in the field of mind-body medicine and a leader in reproductive health psychology. Dr. Domar shares insights from her decades of research and work with patients experiencing infertility, diving deep into the emotional and physical toll of fertility challenges and how stress can impact reproductive outcomes. We discuss the groundbreaking research that links stress reduction to increased fertility success rates, the importance of patient-centered care, and how mind-body practices can transform the fertility journey. Dr. Domar also shares her thoughts on spirituality, the power of connection, and how fostering a sense of belonging can help patients navigate the emotional rollercoaster of infertility. This episode is packed with valuable insights and hope for anyone on the fertility journey. Be sure to tune in as you won’t want to miss this eye-opening and inspiring conversation! Key takeaways: Stress significantly impacts reproductive outcomes, and reducing stress can improve success rates in fertility treatments. Research shows infertility patients often experience anxiety and depression levels similar to those with major illnesses like cancer or heart disease. The brain and body are constantly connected, and managing stress through mind-body strategies can positively influence fertility. Connecting with spirituality or a higher power can help individuals cope with the emotional challenges of infertility. Isolation is common for those facing infertility, but connecting with support groups or programs can provide invaluable relief and healing. Cutting-edge research using physiological devices to measure stress in real-time may revolutionize how stress is addressed during fertility treatments. Empathy, connection, and compassionate care are essential for improving the patient experience and outcomes. Guest Bio: is a pioneer in mind-body medicine, focusing on the relationship between stress, medical conditions, and lifestyle habits. She is Chief Compassion Officer at Inception Fertility, part-time associate professor at Harvard Medical School, and senior staff psychologist at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. Dr. Domar is the author of Conquering Infertility and Finding Calm for the Expectant Mom and serves on advisory boards for Parents Magazine, Resolve, and Easy Eats. Her work has been featured in Redbook, Health, and BeWell.com. Websites/Social Media Links:
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EP 325 The Role of Intuition, Energy, and Neutrality in Fertility Wellness | Lindsay Goodwin
02/25/2025
EP 325 The Role of Intuition, Energy, and Neutrality in Fertility Wellness | Lindsay Goodwin
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Michelle and Lindsay Goodwin @fertilefrequencies explore the intersection of spirituality and fertility, discussing Lindsay's journey as an intuitive medium and healer. They delve into the concept of spirit babies, the emotional and subconscious factors affecting fertility, and the importance of surrendering to the process. The discussion emphasizes the integration of mind-body techniques and the role of emotions in manifesting desires, particularly in the context of fertility. Lindsay shares insights from her new podcast,'Fertile Frequencies,' aimed at providing support and guidance for those on their fertility journey. Guest Bio: Lindsay Goodwin is a fertility support and reproductive medicine pioneer who uniquely blends spiritual and energy healing techniques with scientific approaches for a truly holistic experience. With credentials as a certified master life coach for self-mastery, a certified NLP therapist, a hypnotherapist, a licensed acupuncturist, and a board-certified herbalist, Lindsay brings a unique comprehensive approach to health, personal growth, and awakening the power within. As a certified fellow on ABORM and a spiritual fertility medium, Lindsay uniquely empowers clients to overcome health, emotional, and mindset challenges. She achieves this through a blend of evidence-based practices and energy tools, helping individuals overwhelmed by stress, life demands, and fertility obstacles to conquer anxieties, setbacks, and past traumas. Her work fosters new patterns that usher in joy, fulfillment, freedom, and the renewed energy to hope. Lindsay's profound personal transformation further enriches her expertise. A near-death experience prompted her awakening to the divine power within us all, leading her to integrate science, consciousness, and the unseen energies for healing and abundance. Her leadership in higher consciousness, mindset, and physical health has guided countless individuals to reclaim their lives and achieve a state of harmony, growth, and fulfillment, and to know that they are so much more than just their physical bodies! IG: @fertilefrequencies YouTube: Podcast: Website: Free Gift - Fertile Affirmations & Spirit Baby Connection: For more information about Michelle, visit: Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome back to the podcast Lindsay. Lindsay Goodwin (00:03) Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here, Michelle. Michelle (00:06) Well, I love having you. We just had a whole long pre-talk. We just always connected. I always connected with you like from day one. So, and I love just seeing how you're progressing as a practitioner. And also as I was reading her bio, I mean, I really feel very aligned with how you see your healing, how you approach things, how you are staying in your truth with the connection that you feel to spirit and also acknowledging how important that is in the healing process. And I think that, and we talked about this, there's this whole science versus this, it could be both. And I think that now we are moving into a place where we're actually bridging a lot of what has been shown that is sort of, it's being revealed almost like all the things that the ancients have been talking about for thousands of years. is now starting to become revealed through science. And it's kind of interesting how that is happening right now in this time that we're living. We're starting to see a lot of things, even that the heart houses the mind through heart math, those kinds of things about coherence and how our heart is the the creative center and all of these different things, which I'm sure you're also very into. So I would love for you to just a quick I mean, you've been on here before, but just a quick like background on you and how you got into this work and how you also in your own spirit, your own journey, connected with spirit and realized the importance of that when it comes to healing. Lindsay Goodwin (01:51) Yeah, well, Michelle, thank you so much. And absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more. We are definitely so aligned and I absolutely love the work that you're doing as well. And it's absolutely wonderful to meet other practitioners, healers, providers that are on the same path and are here to really help so many people that need it. So thank you so much. So really about how I got started. Well, I'm actually born intuitive medium. So as a child, I... was very in tune almost as if I could hear people's thoughts. I just knew things that were much greater than what a three year old child because I remember about back when I was about three should know at that age and I also would see energy orbs. I just would know things about people know a lot about their emotions just was very intuitive. And so then as a child I grew up I run the age of seven is generally when we start to be conditioned and that's really when The subconscious mind really starts to form is around the age of seven So that's when I kind of lost it and I started to try to fit into society like most of us And then when I was going through a divorce in my late 30s, I had a spiritual awakening I was actually robbed at gunpoint and during that experience I had an out-of-body experience and I met what I refer to as God or universal energy, source energy, whatever you prefer to call it. And I was wrapped in gold light. It was almost like time had stopped. And the energy that was in the room, I do remember that it was radiating from behind the gunman that had the gun to my back. So the universe was also protecting them. So it was not only protecting me, but everyone because we are all connected. We're not separate. And so It was really interesting to me. And there's also that saying, know, the universe. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty crazy. The universe always has your back. So, you know, I see things very I see things symbolically, but also that was very literal, like that saying the universe always has your back. I had a gun in my back, but there was this energy that was protecting me and the gunman. So during that time, I was not thinking about what you normally would think you would think about when you're going to lose your life. Michelle (03:45) That's interesting. Lindsay Goodwin (04:10) I wasn't thinking about my family. I wasn't thinking about my dog that I had at the time. I was only thinking about what I was seeing and I was seeing angels as well as this energy that I am speaking of this gold light. And I saw one of my spirit guides, his name is Bill. He was there and he had just transitioned out of his body back into spirit about six weeks before this had happened. And I saw my grandparents. And so I was told at this time, that you need to wake up, you need to do what you're supposed to be doing, and you're gonna go back and you're gonna do this work. And so I remembered that, wow, I remember all these things, what I would experience as a child. It was like this beautiful kind of bittersweet sort of experience that happened because it woke me up. So after that, I really just all the intuitive stuff started coming in. I started taking a really strong interest in numerology. consciousness and it just has opened up. And then I started getting a lot of messages from the babies. So I was a acupuncturist at the time. was and I still am an acupuncturist. And I was getting a lot of messages from babies and whether they would be in the aura of the person that I was treating, or they would actually be in the womb space and I would get messages from them. I have regular dreams from what I call spirit baby guides that will come and share information with me about how to help people as well as people that I am working with. And so it's been very apparent and made very apparent to me what my job is. And I do not only treat fertility, I work with people on a just a very helping people across the board with helping them really understand themselves. But fertility is a big part of my job. probably about 50%. Michelle (06:08) Amazing. so spirit babies have always really intrigued me. And what is it that you feel orbs or what exactly do you feel when you see those spirit babies attached to your patients? Lindsay Goodwin (06:25) Yeah, absolutely. So they can be sparkles. I see a lot of sparkles. The orbs of colors that I generally see will be blue, white, gold, sometimes purple, sometimes I will see pink. There have been times I have seen green. But the colors are specific. I haven't quite figured out why I only see certain colors. Michelle (06:47) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Goodwin (06:48) but they're very beautiful. They're like, if someone is sitting in my office or if I'm doing a virtual session because I work with people globally, that I can actually see these sparkles that will actually start to just come off of them or around them. And that could be a spirit baby. It could also be a passed on loved one that is guiding that particular person on their journey. Michelle (07:03) Mm. Lindsay Goodwin (07:11) But we're talking about spirit babies today. So definitely just the spirit in general could have that sort of sparkly sort of energy that I'll see in the person's energy field, which could also be known as biofield, which would be more of a scientific term if we're talking about auras. And then I just, see a lot in my third eye. So your third eye is right between your eyebrows. If people know about chakras, I know that you do, Michelle. And so I get these thought forms. Sometimes they'll actually be words that will come across. Other times they'll be visuals like I will see the baby. I actually will see what they look like as well as their gender. They will show me different artifacts or objects that relate to the person that I'm reading so that that person will know that I'm actually telling them something that they can link up to and I'm not just making it up. So that's one thing I've realized over the years with the spirit babies and just the spirit world in general is that things will come through that will resonate with you to confirm with you that you're not alone. Michelle (08:18) Right. That's amazing. And what do you find or what are the messages that you get for people who are struggling to conceive yet they have a spirit baby around them? Like what is the holdup for the spirit baby coming through? Lindsay Goodwin (08:33) Well, that's a very common question and there could be a bazillion different things, but I'll tell you some common areas that I see. There could be, you know, it could be that maybe subconsciously, this is where the subconscious mind comes in, which is really powerful. You're into that as well as also a certified hypnotherapist that our subconscious mind will create energy blocks and will make it so that we're thinking things under the radar. Michelle (09:02) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Goodwin (09:02) that could be patterns about, maybe I won't be a good mom, maybe I won't be a good dad, maybe I won't be a good parent. And it could relate to some sort of traumatic event that happened. Maybe you had a mother that was emotionally unavailable. You couldn't speak your truth. You know, not necessarily saying that your parents were bad. It could be that maybe they just were dealing with their own things that were going on. And so you could be carrying around that trauma and not even realize that you're carrying it around. So... Michelle (09:08) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Goodwin (09:32) People often ask me, why is it so easy for some people to get pregnant, but it's difficult for me? Why have I had so much loss? Or maybe I have never even had a pregnancy or maybe I have secondary infertility. And the answer that I often get is that I remind people and letting them know that everybody's journey is different. And when we sign up to have these human experiences, we're coming in and we're creating different experiences. Michelle (09:51) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Goodwin (09:58) based on what our soul wants to learn in this physical 3D reality. And so if we're comparing our lives to other people and that, well, this person over here got pregnant really easily. Why is this person getting pregnant that doesn't even want the baby? Is this because everyone's journey is different as well as your spirit baby's journey is different. And so it could be a good example would be is that maybe you're someone that wanted to have a lot more wisdom before you became a parent. Maybe you're someone that didn't want to be like your mother with your child. Maybe there was a lot of healing that needed to happen before your child actually would show up physically because you wanted to be in the best version of yourself to be able to give this child the life that maybe you didn't have. Michelle (10:30) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, there's the thing that I find is that, and I've gotten these ideas and downloads through meditation, through even going to Joe Dispenza events, because you're so immersed that you get these downloads, is that we are just simply not aware of the big picture. And we try to make conclusions based on parts and those parts of our life. so it's very hard to make a very big picture conclusion when we don't have the big picture in front of us. And so part of that is really trusting that there's something else that does see the big picture that we're connected to and being able to surrender that. And that's another thing too that I've noticed is the surrender part. I think we're so conditioned to go after it that sometimes I like to kind of like think about, you know, the Chinese, Lindsay Goodwin (11:26) Yeah. Yeah. Michelle (11:49) handcuffs or the finger cuffs or whatever. The faster you pull, the more you pull tightly and forcefully, the more you get stuck. Creating that kind of flow in your life will allow you to get the lesson faster, I feel like, and then you move faster. That's what I've noticed. Have you picked up on that? Lindsay Goodwin (12:14) yeah, absolutely. I mean, I have a client that I've been seeing since August and we've got some really good news yesterday. Her AMH went from a 0.44 or something like that to over 1.1 something. Yeah. And it's amazing. I just, it's yes, yes, absolutely. And she's in her forties. And I just, told her, what I tell my clients is you did that. Michelle (12:31) Wow, that's amazing. That's great to hear for people to hear. Lindsay Goodwin (12:44) You did that. mean, of course, supplements help acupuncture, but you did that because you have learned to let go of things that are no longer serving you. You're starting to really trust yourself. Your body is saying, yes, yes, yes, because your mind is saying, hey, I know my worthiness. I know that I deserve to be a mom because if I didn't deserve to be a mom, I wouldn't desire it. Michelle (12:45) Yes. Right. Lindsay Goodwin (13:10) Okay, and so she is really now believing that this is truly happening for her. It's a knowing now rather than it just, I'm looking for hope, I'm looking for encouragement, will this happen? She's actually knowing that it's happening and her body is responding to it because of her mind power. So I, you know, to get back to what you were talking about, you know, with surrendering, I often tell people with manifesting, whether it's a baby, because babies are manifestations. Michelle (13:10) Mm-hmm, right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lindsay Goodwin (13:40) It's a partner, it's a business, it's a new house, whatever it is, it's better health. What we do, and this is challenging because we're not taught this, but as little kids, we know this. We put out into the universe that, okay, I'm gonna manifest this. You have to almost take it and put it up on the shelf and leave it there. You have to be unattached. Yes, exactly, you have to be unattached. Michelle (13:40) Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You almost have to forget about it. Yeah. Lindsay Goodwin (14:10) to the how, the when, what it's gonna look like. And you're living your life and you're enjoying your magic and your light and your family and all the things that make you happy. I mean, when our perspective shifts, our whole world shifts. You can look at something one way or you can look at it another way. If you're looking at things and that things are abundant or you're looking at things of what I don't have, Michelle (14:13) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. True. Lindsay Goodwin (14:38) That's a very different feeling. And we know that the universe is responding to how we feel. Michelle (14:44) yes. Yeah. It's the feelings. Yeah. The feelings really make a huge difference. And that's what they found actually in the research that Joe Dispenza does is because the researchers come up and talk and they say the two things that they saw, you know, the combination is thought emotions and emotional state. So that's one of the reasons why he focuses a lot on the heart and also this joy and the love. Because when you feel those emotions, you can feel those emotions in very challenging times, yet you still can be very elevated. And I can tell you this, I I went through the loss of my father and it was a very challenging time to see him go through the transition. I knew he was gonna transition. I knew that I was witnessing to that. At the same time, I was able to get into a state of such love. Lindsay Goodwin (15:38) Yeah. Michelle (15:39) that I felt more alive than like ever before. It felt like such a pivotal and sacred time, even though it could be judged as like this bad, dark time. And yes, it had very difficult, painful aspects to it, but the way I'm describing it now is it's a more neutral way. So you could look at something and acknowledge the pain in a more neutral perspective. rather than looking at it and saying, this is good, this is bad. Because ultimately by doing that, or saying something's bad, you're limiting yourself. We were talking about that before. You're limiting yourself to that aspect of it. And that will impact your energy and how you're able to really show up in your life. And the energy impact can for sure impact the AMH. So all of these things that suck our energy throughout our life, and mentally in the background are going to definitely impact the energy that can go into procreation. So it's this whole big picture. Lindsay Goodwin (16:46) It really is. And you know, I love what you're saying. It's about giving meaning to things. know, once we give meaning to things, then it takes on its own energy. neutral is a very powerful way of explaining it. And I know that that can be challenging as a human being because we're encoded with emotions. It's part of the experience. But when you can learn, like the Buddha says, and I'm not Buddhist, but just, know, I love Michelle (17:07) Mm-hmm. Lindsay Goodwin (17:16) history and there's a lot of philosophies that are great, is that when you can live in that middle place, you know, rather than being too up here or too down here, you're just neutral. That's really when the manifestation happens. That's really when the happiness,...
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EP 324 Unlocking the Gut-Brain-Fertility Connection
02/18/2025
EP 324 Unlocking the Gut-Brain-Fertility Connection
On this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I dive deep into a fascinating and vital topic—how stress impacts the gut-brain connection and, in turn, your fertility health. We’ll explore how chronic stress affects your nervous system, gut microbiome, and hormonal balance, and I'll share actionable tips to regulate your nervous system, support gut health, and optimize fertility. Tune in to learn how to empower your mind and body for a thriving fertility journey! Takeaways The gut and brain are connected via the vagus nerve, creating a two-way communication system that influences stress and digestion. Chronic stress diverts blood flow away from vital organs, impacting digestion, hormone balance, and fertility. Practices like diaphragmatic breathing, meditation, and ear massage can activate the vagus nerve, promoting a"rest and digest" state. A diverse and healthy gut microbiome supports hormonal health, reduces inflammation, and enhances fertility. Emotional stress drains the body’s reserves and can lead to hormonal imbalances like lowered progesterone levels. Mindful eating habits, such as chewing food thoroughly and avoiding distractions, improve digestion and gut health. Acupuncture and other TCM techniques help regulate the nervous system and support overall fertility wellness. For more information about Michelle, visit: Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. On today's episode, I'm going to be talking about a topic that I've talked about before, but it's a little different. And I am going to be discussing stress and its impact on fertility. Now, I've spoken about stress before, we've had many, many different episodes talking about how stress can impact fertility, and I know a lot of people say, Oh, does it really impact fertility? Yes. When it gets broken down, absolutely, and indirectly in some ways. So today I'm actually going to be talking about the gut brain connection, how stress can impact the gut and how the gut. is super important for fertility health. So stay tuned. So I find this topic actually really, really fascinating because the [00:01:00] gut is super smart. Actually, it has its own nervous system and it's really fascinating just how it runs. And I tend to be really fascinated by the nervous system as it is. And I think that the nervous system is one of the things that We don't really pay that much attention to, but it really does make a difference on so many factors and so many things in our body. And really, it makes such a difference and influence on how we feel in our life and how we perceive the world as well. And if you really think about the influence of stress on the nervous system, then you can see how it really is a Such a direct relationship. Stress is really how our nervous system reacts and responds to the life around us. Now, I always say this, I've said this before, and I'm going to say this today again, is that it's not about [00:02:00]eliminating stress or eradicating stress. As a matter of fact, stress can actually make us stronger. So having moments of stress, I mean, if you think about going to the gym and building muscle, One of the reasons why we get stronger is because of the stress and stress can also impact the bones and help the bones. So having that extra stress actually strengthens the bones. So stress can actually be something that can be alchemize to help our bodies to help our life like if you have difficulties or challenges in your life, you'll find that it actually makes you stronger and it makes you smarter and it gets you to think about things differently than you would have normally. And if you don't have that element of stress, then you don't really have that opportunity of growth. So stress is incredibly advantageous when it is not chronic when it's not all the time and we as humans and this is really like even how we learn about the body through Chinese medicine [00:03:00] is that A lot of things in our bodies and a lot of things in nature run in pulses, it runs in rhythms. So when you have something all the time without that break, that's when it can lead to imbalance. So when you have like pulses of stress or things that come and go, That is when the body is able to have the pulse and then it goes back into a more yin phase. I've spoken about the yin and the yang, which are really two opposing opposites that need each other in order to create harmony and balance. And that harmony and balance is something that conventional medicine will say or call homeostasis. And homeostasis is basically a state that the body always strives for in order to thrive. And that is the ultimate. So homeostasis is that balance that keeps us in check. It keeps the hormones in check. It keeps everything in check. Now, in order to have that, we [00:04:00] can't have too much yang or too much yin. We need the two. And this is how we have a pulse. A pulse is something that goes back and forth. and that back and forth is what keeps things in balance. So it can go back and forth, but then eventually grow into strength. So having that stress, but then having that recovery and that combination of the two is what actually gets us stronger. However, many cases our nervous system is hyper stimulated, hyper meaning over. So overstimulated by electronics, by sound, by things that are typically not occurring in nature if we were to be living really in accordance with nature and what we used to do in the past when we didn't have all these man made things like light at night or really loud noises from the garbage truck things that are [00:05:00]really not Something that you find in nature sounds that you don't really hear in nature, bright lights that you don't see in nature, things that are not typical to what our bodies are actually programmed to be used to, and also to understand the process. So when we have that extreme hyper stimulation all the time, and now I'm not even talking about the emotional stress. I'm just talking about. So I'm going to talk about the stressors that we are exposed to day in and day out that also stimulate our nervous system. And by stimulating it all the time, it actually weakens it. It makes you more tired. So in Chinese medicine, we talk about excess and deficiency, and that's kind of like the yin and the yang. And when we have too much excess, it can lead to deficiency because the body has to process that excess. And when there's just too much coming at it at once, it can make it more deficient. Just think [00:06:00] about a computer. If you're throwing in so many different software and really loading it up over time, it's going to get slower and it's going to get in the way of its ability to process signals and it takes a little longer to do things. So now that we covered that aspect of stress, there's also emotional stress, and if you notice, emotions actually take a lot of energy in the body, and so having that stress chronically of emotions, that drains the body of reserves, and it can also impact it. how we feel and impact the state of our brains. And it also has been shown to create a more incoherent state of brain waves. And that's been studied and observed in HeartMath Institute where they study the heart brain coherence. And it's really, really fascinating work because they're actually seeing that there's a relationship between the heart and the brain and the heart has [00:07:00] always been in Chinese medicine said to house the brain, which is interesting because nobody really understood from a conventional medicine perspective, what that really meant. Or it was kind of like, okay, well that's, I guess their perspective on it or their theory. But now science is actually showing that that is really in fact true. And as a matter of fact, the heart acts as a brain and it can really pick up on things before the brain even picks up on them. So your heart is in a sense even more powerful than the brain itself. Now when it comes to the brain and stressors and impacts of the stressors on the brain, that can impact a fight and flight. response from your body. So we know one thing that's really fascinating is that there's a bi directional relationship between the brain and your gut. So your gut has its [00:08:00] own nervous system and it's called the enteric nervous system. And your brain is connected to the central nervous system and that central nervous system gets information from the brain and it also receives information from the body. So how that is connected to the gut is through the vagus nerve. So the vagus nerve is kind of like playing operator and it has a bidirectional communication pathway from the enteric nervous system, which is our gut nervous system. And that basically runs from your mouth to your anus. So basically it runs throughout the whole thing and it has hundreds of thousands of neurons and that is pretty fascinating. But the fascinating thing is that it is connected via the vagus nerve to your brain and your brain connects with your gut. So when you have stressors that are impacting the integrity of the way your brain is [00:09:00]functioning, when there are too many Difficulties and coherences and dysfunctional stressors that can impact your nervous system and also impact you to be more in a fight or flight situation. state, then that can impact your gut health as well. So when the vagus nerve is activated, the vagus nerve can get you into a more rest and digest state. And that rest and digest state is optimal for your digestive system. And that is what you want. You want your body to be in a state of where fluids can flow freely, because you'll find that if you are in a fight or flight State your mouth gets really dry. It's like the fluids get like dried up and what happens is in those situations where your body perceives a danger, it knows that it can't focus on anything else, but the ability to run or to fight if you can't run. So what [00:10:00] happens is your body automatically will start to send it. blood to the arms and to the legs and away from your organs. So that, where does that move away from? It moves away from your heart. It moves away from your liver. It moves away from all your internal organs, moves away from your digestion. It moves away from your uterus and your ovaries. And to have yourself be in a state that is chronically like that, it's going to impact how your body is going to nourish itself and regenerate. And that of course is going to impact your fertility health. So yes, stress can really, really impact fertility health. But a very big reason for why is also because it impacts your gut health. And your gut health is central to your fertility health. It can impact how your body is able to process nutrients, how your body is [00:11:00] able to get energy, how your body deals with inflammation, and how your body's immune system operates. All things that contribute greatly to your fertility. fertility health. And it also impacts your body's microbiome, not just the gut microbiome, but it can also influence your vaginal microbiome and your uterine microbiome. So it can impact so many things and it's such a trickle effect. And that's the thing with a body that is so amazing, but also can be challenging for, you know, Sometimes conventional medicine to approach, because if you take pieces of the body or parts of the body and just focus on that part, you're just not going to get the full picture. And this is why I love Chinese medicine is because it looks at the full circle, the full picture and how all the different parts work together. And it's like a big, huge web that [00:12:00] intercommunicates with each other. So when you start to realize that. You don't need to really figure it out all together, and that's a thing that I do want to stress in this. Um, no pun intended, but I do want to mention that ultimately all the things that I'm telling you is really to give you a big picture about it, but you don't have to figure out exactly how it works. It's really more an understanding. of really what stress can do to your gut. The reason I say this is because your body's actually really intelligent and your body knows what to do. So when you get it to a state where you regulate your nervous system, and I'm going to be sharing things and to do's towards the end of this. So you can keep listening to find out. But when you do get yourself to that state, Then your body knows exactly what it needs to do. You don't have to figure it out and you don't even have to tell the body what to do. The body already knows what to do. All it needs is an environment that feels [00:13:00] safe for it to do so. Another thing to note is that the brain. not only impacts the gut, but the gut can also impact the brain. So the gut can also impact our ability to produce serotonin, which is a neurotransmitter that impacts your mood and overall wellbeing. So if you have any kind of issues with your gut, it can also impact the brain and that can create more stress. So it's bi directional. And that is what is so fascinating about this is that you can really impact your gut through your brain and you can impact your brain through your gut. So besides stress impacting your gut, I also want to mention that it can also elevate cortisol levels, which cortisol is a hormone and again, cortisol has a lot of benefits for the body as well, but you don't want it to be chronic. When it's chronic, it can suppress ovulation. It can also Lower progesterone levels. So that's one of the [00:14:00] reasons why somebody can have lowered progesterone is from high stress. And progesterone is really important. It's important for fertility, obviously, but it's really, really important for pregnancy. So to, in order to sustain a pregnancy, you need good, healthy amounts of progesterone. So, I wanted to mention a couple of really interesting studies and one of them was the study on Tibetan monks and what they did was they actually looked at the gut microbiome of those Tibetan monks and also neighbors and so basically what they found was that, um, the microbiome of the meditators and the microbiome of the neighbors. And they both ate similar foods. They were exposed to the same water. They lived in the same area. The only difference really was that the meditators meditated all day. And what they found was that the gut microbiome and the meditators was a lot more enriched and a lot more [00:15:00] diverse than the ones of the neighbors. And that's pretty fascinating because What that shows you is that there are types of microbiome and what it looked like for the meditators is associated with a lot less risk of inflammation and risk of heart disease and lots of different. autoimmune conditions. So it protected them basically by having that enriched gut microbiome. It protected their bodies, but it also shows us that their meditations have something to do with the gut microbiome. Something else that I want to note Is if you've been listening to me, you probably are sick of hearing me talk about Dr. Joe Dispenza, because I absolutely have been so influenced by his work. And when I went to his retreat, they basically studied the participants blood and their gut microbiome is one of the things that they study in brain waves and amongst many other things. And what they [00:16:00] found was that when they take the stool samples of the participants from the beginning before they actually start the week long meditation retreat, they check their stools before and then they check it afterwards and they find that it's drastically different and it has way more diversity in their microbiome and it's associated with much better health. Okay. And so that's pretty fascinating. And that's something that I directly had experience to watching. So it seems like basically that through meditation and through mindfulness practices Or any kind of practices that lower stress that that can impact the gut microbiome, which is fascinating because then it gives us a lot of power. It gives us a feeling of empowerment that you really can make a difference in your gut just through your mind alone. Another really fascinating study that I found was that they [00:17:00] had correlations between certain types of mental disorders and some of them were even mild depression or mild anxiety all the way leading to bipolar and other types that were more severe. And what they found was that there was an interesting pattern of the microbiome and it was a similar type of microbiome pattern where it showed some microbiome dysbiosis that related to the mental condition. that the person had. So depending on what it was, there seemed to be a pattern in their gut microbiome, which is another incredibly fascinating thing. And something that I also heard about was fecal implants, I don't necessarily suggest it. I think it's still an experimental phase, something that you might want to ask your doctor about if you really have gone through a lot, but. Definitely do your [00:18:00] research because I know that it's not something that I think that it's not something without any risks at all. But what they found, which was fascinating about this, is that when they did the fecal transplant, the person would basically take a transplant of poop, it's kind of gross, from somebody who has a really good enriched microbiome. And they basically transplanted that poop from that person to the other person, who'd take the poop and put it back. into the person who had dysbiosis or issues with their gut. And what they found was that it influenced their gut health because what happened was that microbiome would start to populate and grow in numbers for the person that needed it. And they found that not only did it help in many cases with gut conditions, but it also helped with mental conditions. Um, it helped with ADHD and many other types of mental diagnoses. So it was [00:19:00] really, really, really fascinating that that can really make such a difference, but it can. So it is kind of cool to know this because then you realize that yes, I can approach this through the gut itself. Which a lot of people do, but many times people get so focused sort of on like the physical body that they ignore the mental body. And I find that I meet a lot of people, whether it's my clients or in person or online. where they have spoken to functional doctors, they know pretty much what supplements to take, what to eat, and they figured it all out and almost to a point where it caused them a lot of mental stress. But the focus was so much just on the physical that the mental was ignored. And it is something that is easy to ignore because. It's something that we don't really see, we can't touch, it's something that kind of operates behind the [00:20:00] scenes, and most of the time, our eyes, when they're open, are focused on the world around us, so it's easier for us to focus on that. and not close our eyes and go within, which is what a lot of these mindfulness practices teach us. And this is actually something that I cover a lot in my book, the way of fertility, because I thought it was so important. What I found just really in working in this field is that That is the most ignored aspect of our being and it's because it can be actually really frustrating to deal with. It's frustrating to do something and work with something and focus on something that...
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EP 323 From Nike to Nutrition: A Fertility Journey | Ronit Menashe & Vida Delrahim
02/11/2025
EP 323 From Nike to Nutrition: A Fertility Journey | Ronit Menashe & Vida Delrahim
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Vida Delrahim and Ronit Menashe share their personal journeys from corporate careers to founding WeNatal, a company focused on improving fertility through better prenatal supplements. They discuss the importance of addressing both male and female health in the preconception phase, the science behind their product formulations, and the need for education and resources for couples trying to conceive. Their mission is to empower individuals with knowledge and high-quality supplements to enhance fertility outcomes. Takeaways Ronit and Vida met at Nike and became best friends. Ronit's experience in functional medicine changed their trajectory. Miscarriages led them to explore fertility solutions more deeply. Men contribute to 50% of miscarriages due to sperm quality. WeNatal was created to support both partners in fertility. Their prenatal supplements are designed for bioavailability and effectiveness. They focus on simplifying the supplement process for women. Education is key in supporting couples on their fertility journey. Their blog offers valuable resources for those trying to conceive. They emphasize the importance of quality ingredients in supplements. Guest Bio: Ronit Menashe and Vida Delrahim are the founders of WeNatal, a prenatal supplement company that is transforming the fertility space with the first prenatal supplement optimized for her AND him. WeNatal’s mission to change the narrative surrounding fertility and reproductive health is personal; after suffering miscarriages a week apart, Ronit and Vida were given little direction on what to do differently. More importantly, the health of Ronit and Vida’s partners(including the health of their sperm) was completely missing from their fertility dialogue with their doctors… something had to change. That is why WeNatal was born, to shift the fertility journey from "me" to "we.” WeNatal is revolutionizing the prenatal space and backed by industry leading Functional Medicine doctors, nutritionists, and fertility experts, including Dr. Mark Hyman and Kelly LeVeque. With 24 key clean, bioavailable nutrients, WeNatal steps up where other supplements fall short for all things preconception to postpartum for both parents and baby. Websites/Links: Free Preconception Guide: For more information about Michelle, visit: Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast for Neat and Vita. Vida Delrahim (00:02) Thanks for having us. We're so excited to be here. Ronit Menashe (00:04) So happy to be here. Michelle (00:06) Yes, so happy to have you guys. And I know that you guys have such an interesting story, first of all, on how you met and also the experience you guys went through together. So without giving anything away, I would love for you guys to share your stories, your personal stories and how that eventually led you to doing your passion project. Vida Delrahim (00:26) Yeah, I'd love to. So it's fun story because we never envisioned to be in the supplement space. And in fact, Ronit and I met in our corporate careers at Nike close to 18 years ago and became best friends and really just kind of embarked in life together. Ronit went on to work in the functional medicine space and we should all thank our lucky stars that she did because it kind of completely changed our trajectory. So. I had a miscarriage right when she was having her first daughter. And of course the answers we were given were very dismissive. They were typically like very common, keep trying, you're lucky you even got pregnant, could be the stress, could be a slew of things. They just kind of shove you along as part of the process. And I didn't know any better, of course, having my first and Ronit was actually in the functional med space, immersed and kind of taught me things like, have you checked your thyroid? Have you done this? Have you done that? Lo and behold, I had Hashimoto's, I didn't even know about it. Just that simple act of fixing my thyroid with medication and visiting an endocrinologist allowed me to have a healthy baby girl. And then fast forward to 2020, I had another miscarriage. And a week after, Ronit had one. And I think this was, it happened a week apart. This was a little bit shocking because... Like I kind of just accepted that this stuff happens, but Ronit working alongside Dr. Mark Hyman, who's very amazing functional practitioner, she was all about the root cause. She was all about the answers and the questions and the answers she was given was very similar, but she wasn't willing to accept that. Like, you know, there's nothing you can do as an answer. Michelle (02:02) Mm-hmm. Ronit Menashe (02:03) And I think for me, Michelle, the reason why it was so shocking was because I was a huge fan of functional medicine for so many years and I already was doing all of the things, or at least I thought I was. I had already cleaned out my house from plastics. I had already, you know, was eating organic food. I was focusing on movement. I was taking pretty good supplements. or at least what I thought was good supplements. And I was shocked. And when I started to dive into the root of what was happening, because it didn't make sense to me that my doctor said, there is nothing you could do to improve your fertility, literally. It is just common, just keep trying. I thought that makes zero sense. And I'm gonna learn about how to improve my egg quality. I thought. Michelle (02:48) Mm hmm. Ronit Menashe (03:01) It was a net quality issue. was 41 at the time. That's what made sense to me. And my biggest aha was when I learned that 50 % of miscarriages happen because of sperm quality. And that was when I called Vida and I said, Vida, did you know that men contribute to 50 % of miscarriages and that 50 that that sperm quality is easily improved using antioxidants like CoQ10 and AC. In fact, studies after studies show that when men take an antioxidant blend in high dose bioavailable forms, they can quadruple their chances of their partner getting pregnant and having a live birth. So, That was our big light bulb moment when we thought like, my God, we need to create a prenatal for men. And we need to scream this from the rooftops that men have a huge role, huge role in improving fertility outcomes and pregnancy outcomes for their families. And that was where we started our journey. Michelle (04:13) It is so important. can't even like tell you. It's so crazy because I have people that go to their doctors and so many times they don't even check the men. And also the DNA fragmentation, which is a whole other thing. Cause like, yeah, you can have perfect sperm numbers and motility and morphology. But if the DNA is off and that can get really impacted by the antioxidants, then that can make a big difference on so many things on IVF, is so expensive too. So I love that you guys bring this up. It's so important. Vida Delrahim (04:50) It's so important and how is it that we're so far in like medicine and women's rights, but like yet the burden of fertility still solely is falling so Ronit and I knew that was like the beginning of our mission that one, women and men deserve better products because we can talk about how once we uncover the fertility and the supplement space, we learn so much, but also that they both need to be leveling up their health. They both need to be part of the conversation. And WeNatal was really born to really level up both partners and bring them together during this journey and give them the best tools and the best nutrition to level up their health in this crucial timeframe, which is preconception. Michelle (05:32) For sure, and we're neat. So you had a different background and you changed your career like me. Ronit Menashe (05:38) Well, my background was in marketing. That's where Vida and I met at Nike. And I fell in love with functional medicine when I got into CrossFit and I learned about the Paleo diet. And then I learned about functional medicine. And then I started to do, you know, become, I became a functional medicine patient myself. And this was a year before, you know, we need years before we natal. And I just fell in love with this idea of medicine of the root cause. And once you learn it, you can't unlearn it. Like that's how you think about everything. It's like, even when, you know, your child has a tantrum nowadays, you're like, okay, like it's not them. Is it there? Is it that they're tired? Is it that they're hungry? Is it that they had sugar? You know, you, you Michelle (06:27) you Bye. Ronit Menashe (06:35) learn about root cause medicine, you realize it, you know, that just everything is connected. And so for me, that was, you know, a big change in my career because I was focused more on marketing. And then I wanted to get into the functional medicine space. I took Chris Kresser's adapt course and, know, kind of started to learn about becoming a practitioner, but it ended up serving me very well when I met Dr. Mark Hyman and I worked on his private practice and worked on his private practice more from like operations. And then I worked with him on his book launches. So still kind of like in the business side of things, marketing side of things, but more focused on this space that I love so much, which is functional integrative medicine. Michelle (07:26) That's amazing. so I'm sure with that background, and also realizing that there is a need for this. It really inspired you to do, to have this supplement company. Ronit Menashe (07:38) 100%. We spoke to Dr. Hyman when we first came up with the idea and he said, I always treat the man when a woman comes to me with infertility. And so what we wanted to do with WeNatal is be able to give everybody access to this kind of functional medicine approach, which essentially means optimizing male fertility and female fertility before trying to conceive. what it looks like is nourishing your body and kind of, creating that optimal soil for conception. And, know, we always say when you improve your health, you're improving your fertility. And when you're improving your fertility, you're improving your health. And we hear from so many customers that, you know, let's say men, for instance, they're taking we natal for him. And all of a sudden they have a libido all of a sudden. They have energy, they focus, their hair is growing. So that's kind of the side effects and the byproduct of working on improving your sperm and egg quality is you actually also feel good when you're nourished. You feel good when you're depleted from nutrients. Of course, you're going to be tired. And so many people just accept this notion of like, I'm getting older so I should be tired or I'm getting older I should be losing my hair or I'm postpartum I should be Michelle (09:06) Like it's normal, normal versus common. Vida Delrahim (09:08) Exactly. Exactly. Ronit Menashe (09:09) Exactly. Exactly. So yes, these things are common, but they're not normal. And Vida and I just, you know, had this like life circumstance where we realized like it's our mission now to educate people on the importance of preconception, that there is so much you could do as a couple. He needs to be part of the equation. And when we started WeNatal, we didn't know if the men would be into it, but we're happy to say Our we-natal men are amazing. We have so many incredible couples that are doing this together from day one. And we're always saying like, they're gonna be the best dads. If they are participating in fertility so early, they are amazing parents already. Michelle (09:56) So yeah, for sure. And talk about like the different ingredients or the and what they do when it comes to both egg and sperm quality. And you can take your time on this Ronit Menashe (10:08) for sure. Well, you know, here's the thing. We didn't think that the world needed another prenatal for women because there are so many prenatals out there, thousands. know, and. But when we started to dive into it and particularly for us, we were taking these packets made out of plastic that had seven pills in them. And we just thought women deserve better. Why do they need to take seven pills? Why do they need to throw out plastic every day? Like we care about creating these healthy little humans. What about the environment? there was that. Then when we looked at the lower level prenatals, we noticed that a lot of the ingredients were not bioavailable. So what does that mean? not everybody could utilize the nutrients that are part of those prenatals. So let's use folic acid as an example. When a prenatal has folic acid, that is the synthetic form of folate, which a lot of prenatals on the market, like if you go to a CVS or a Target, they have folic acid. And if somebody has the MTHFR genetic mutation, They cannot utilize that folic acid. And so that nutrient is actually harmful to them. So for we natal, all of our nutrients are bioavailable. They're all in the methylated B form. like methyl folate or 5MTHF. So first of all, we have bioavailability. Second of all, comprehensiveness. A lot of the prenatals on the market have 12-ish ingredients. We have 24 nutrients and we wouldn't leave one nutrient out. And it's very important because each and every one of our nutrients that are in our prenatal serves a very specific purpose for mom and baby and health of the pregnancy. And then you have... dosages because even if something has 24 key ingredients like we natal the Dosages make a big difference. So using choline as an example choline We natal has 400 milligrams choline is crucial for baby brain development and the research shows that a pregnant woman needs 450 milligrams and a lactating woman needs 550 milligrams the average Choline intake in the American diet, which you get choline from egg yolks is around 180. So we natal has 400 to be able to support that postpartum mom and obviously the pregnant mom, but there are prenatals on the market that have 50 milligrams. Now this is crucial for cognition of baby, brain mass, baby brain development. Michelle (13:15) Mm-hmm. Ronit Menashe (13:22) And so we were like, we have to create a prenatal for us because what we were doing is we were taking that base prenatal. We were adding choline. We were adding vitamin D. We were adding folate. We were adding iron. And most women are not going to do that. Most women are not going to, you know, take 10 plus pills a day and spend all that money on all of these nutrients. We were doing it because we were immersed in the research and we saw how important these nutrients were. But we wanted to create a product that made it simple and easy for women and men to take their prenatal. Our packaging is beautiful and the reason is, well, first of all, we love nice things, but also, Michelle (14:15) Thank Ronit Menashe (14:16) We wanted it to be part of people's home, people's life. So they're not hiding their prenatals in their, you know, cabinets that they can take it every day because consistency, like everything in health and wellness, consistency is what's going to make the biggest difference. And so that's kind of from a high level. And then, you know, you asked me what's in the prenatal and we can geek out a little bit more on the nutrients and what they do. But what's not in the prenatal is also a big, big key because a lot of supplements on the market have a ton of additional ingredients and those ingredients are harmful for fertility and just overall health. And so it's important. We always say it's important to look at the nutrition facts. but also look underneath the nutrition facts like what else is in there that shouldn't be in there and we natal doesn't have any additional fillers. And we do that because we manufacture in smaller dosages. We're not manufacturing in mass. Our shelf life is only two years where it's not like some prenatals that their shelf life is forever. which, you know, for us, we're fine. We're doing things in smaller batches. And, you know, from a business perspective, it complicates things, definitely complicates Vida's life because she's on the operation side of things, but we're doing the right thing for the consumer. And that's what matters to us the most. Michelle (15:43) . So I know that like for my patients, for example, I'll give them certain supplements, preparing, including a prenatal, but then I'll also add more supplements that I don't necessarily have them continue taking after they're pregnant. So some that are more like to beef up the quality of the eggs. Do you guys have different ones or is it like certain? Yeah. Vida Delrahim (16:13) Mm-hmm. Ronit Menashe (16:16) Yes. Yes. So we have our foundation support, which is the prenatal for him and for her. That is the multivitamin for men slash sperm support. And for women, it's the prenatal that has key nutrients for before, during, and after. But for those who want to beef up their egg quality, and we could talk about the scenarios in which you would need this product or not. Michelle (16:35) Mm-hmm. Ronit Menashe (16:44) We have a product that we launched this year called Egg Quality Plus, and it's five nutrients in one. So it's the five nutrients that we were taking after our miscarriage, CoQ10, NAC, PQQ, alpha lipoic acid, and L-carnitine. And what these nutrients do is they help improve egg quality. How do they do it? Michelle (16:49) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ronit Menashe (17:12) These nutrients are very specific nutrients that help improve mitochondria. We know that the three months before you ovulate, the egg that you ovulate with is going through all these processes that are very complex that require very strong mitochondria. So your mitochondria is like the battery of the cell. And if the battery is low, that process is not gonna go well and you're gonna end up with chromosomal abnormalities. So it's important to quote unquote charge the battery before you start trying so that when that process does take place, it happens with no or limited errors, if that makes sense. So we recommend for women who are either older or maybe had recurrent miscarriages or Michelle (18:00) Yeah. Ronit Menashe (18:09) Just wanna know that they did everything possible in the preconception timeframe to take Egg Quality Plus with our prenatal, which the prenatal also includes nutrients that help improve egg quality like folate, vitamin D. By the way, 4,000 I use a vitamin D. I don't think any prenatals on the market have that. And then, you you talked about in the postpartum phase, like for us, what was very important to include in our prenatal is iron because in the postpartum phase and in third trimester, a lot of women are very depleted from nutrients because you require more iron in that timeframe and just to help with postpartum recovery and all of those things. So our prenatal has iron in it as well. So what we wanted to do with the prenatal is be able to simplify people's lives and give them a tool that they can use...
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EP 322 Why Positive Thinking Can be a Trap When It Comes to Fertility
02/04/2025
EP 322 Why Positive Thinking Can be a Trap When It Comes to Fertility
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I dive into the nuances of positive thinking and why it can sometimes be counterproductive during the fertility journey. While positive thinking is often praised, it can sometimes invalidate our true feelings, create shame, and hinder emotional flow. I share insights from both personal experiences and the principles of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM), emphasizing the importance of emotional authenticity and achieving a state of neutrality to support fertility and overall well-being. Takeaways: Toxic positivity can be harmful. It may invalidate genuine emotions and create shame or pressure to feel a certain way. Neutrality is key. Balancing yin and yang allows for emotional flow and supports both mental and physical well-being. Emotions are energy. Observing and processing emotions without judgment promotes natural healing and balance. Practical tools: Meditation, mindfulness, journaling, and therapies like acupuncture can help create flow and harmony. Limit external pressures. Set boundaries and curate your environment to avoid triggers, allowing for peace and authenticity. For more information about Michelle, visit: To learn more about ancient wisdom and fertility, you can get Michelle’s book at: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Today I am going to be talking about why positive thinking isn't always so positive, especially when it comes to the fertility journey and why it could sometimes be a trap. So stay tuned. So today I want to discuss the hidden pitfalls of positive thinking when it comes to your fertility journey and why it is not always as positive as we intend for it to be. So there's a good reason why positive thinking or the movement of positive thinking has made such a huge impact on a lot of people. And you'll hear a lot about it. When it comes to so many different things when it comes to work when it comes to your body when it comes to like so many things and The reason why I think it is so impactful is the aspect of it of really guiding our minds [00:01:00] to the possibilities of things happening and There's definitely benefits to that However, it could be a trap. It could be a trap to think positively and I'll explain why, especially when it comes to the fertility journey. Sometimes it can actually make things worse. So, you may have heard of the term or the phrase, Toxic positivity. So yes, anything can become and turn into something unhealthy, even positivity. You may have been in a situation where you were trying to explain how you were feeling to somebody you really care about, and you just needed to get A load of emotions off your chest. And as soon as you do that, the person says, well, you know, maybe it's this, maybe it's that, or trying to sort of shift the way you're looking at things. And then you find yourself feeling worse. The likelihood of why you were feeling [00:02:00] so bad is because in so doing in, you know, the good intention of your friend or your family member to try to get you to just stay positive or, another example is going to a dinner party and being told, Oh, you know, people sometimes at the last minute when they start to feel relaxed, that's when they start to get pregnant. So you get stories like that over and over again, but the reason why it could be so detrimental and it can actually have an impact that's the opposite is because you start to feel invalidated for your feelings and you're not feeling like whatever it is that you're experiencing is valid and you shouldn't feel that way. And there's almost an element that sometimes can turn into a level of shame you. In feeling that you can't just feel how you're feeling without, I guess, a positive judgment. So positivity, just like [00:03:00]negativity, it could be a judgment on something. And it can also get you into a state where you don't really feel authentic. You're feeling like you have to be a certain way and that doesn't come from where you're truly feeling. It doesn't really align with how your current state is. So when you're constantly going against yourself, then it can cause you to feel worse. So ultimately the reason why you would even implement anything as positive thinking is to feel better. So when you're trying to implement something that you don't really feel aligned with, then it can add an extra added pressure to your already pressure filled journey trying to conceive. So then on top of all of that, you feel shame or bad or guilt for feeling negative emotions. And these negative emotions are actually very normal emotions to have. And sometimes you start to beat yourself up because you think to [00:04:00] yourself, well, is it because I wasn't being positive that I'm not conceiving? Am I not being positive enough to make my fertility work? And then it gets you onto this whole other rabbit hole of thoughts and ideas that again, only make you feel worse. So let's just look into why those things make you feel worse. It's because you are feeling your truth of emotions and regardless of it feeling, I guess, negative, but again, that's a judgment. By denying that, by saying, by putting that judgment of this is a negative feeling and I have to feel much better, then there's pressure and there's also resistance that's being created. In regards to what is for you in this present moment. So rather than putting judgments on anything that you're going through emotionally, and rather than looking at emotions as inherently good or bad, allow them just to be what they[00:05:00] are. And this is one of the things that is so powerful about a mindfulness practice is that we're not trying to suppress anything. You're just allowing things to be. And so emotions can be like energy. And this is one of the reasons why Chinese medicine, the way we focus on the body and the thing that actually heals the body. Is creating a sense of flow. So when you're taking something and you're either constricting and you're not really aligning, you're resisting or you're attaching too much, then you're not allowing a state of flow and you're not allowing this state of yin and yang balance. So suppressing or denying emotions positivity can actually create an emotional backlog and it can lead to increased stress and even physical symptoms. that the fertility journey can often come with grief. It can come with anger. It can come with frustration. It can come with fear. All these feelings deserve to be acknowledged and processed just like anything in [00:06:00] life. So if those things are suppressed, that is not true positivity. On the other hand, allowing yourself to feel the feelings and go through the motions and allowing them to move as their normal progression is naturally that can allow a spontaneous feeling of joy from that release of emotions. So there's a difference between trying to force joy and trying to force positivity than to be in a natural spontaneous state of joy. by allowing yourself that space and that freedom of allowing yourself to really just truly freely express yourself. Now that doesn't mean to express yourself by hurting other people. You know, there's, everything's in a balance. So you use your expression in a way that doesn't really harm other people or doesn't impact other [00:07:00] people other than allowing them to be part of your journey or being there as a support but really processing emotions in a healthy way. Sometimes this means going and seeking therapy from a qualified professional and ideally somebody who really understands your specific needs. So it could be , somebody who specializes in fertility, wellness, so it's important to have somebody who's really trained in that specific specialty. And I also want to note that processing emotions is very distinct from staying in those emotions. So there's a difference between allowing emotions to move through because naturally if you really allow emotions to go freely they're gonna come and go and they're not gonna stay stagnant. When you find yourself almost persisting in those states of emotions all the time, that too is not a natural state. [00:08:00] That's actually forcing yourself to stay in it because either we feel shame or we feel we deserve to feel that way or that we don't personally allow ourselves to move through it until we get that object of desire, in the case of fertility, it's conceiving. And what happens is even if you do get conception and conception occurs, you'll realize that through that stagnation of emotions, that once you do get what you desire, those emotions don't necessarily go away. And that actually takes a lot of people by surprise as well. Processing emotions definitely requires us to be accepting of our state, accepting of what is in this moment, accepting how we feel in this moment, and really truly like giving ourselves that self compassion and that full acceptance of us. in our state, how we are in this moment, and when we do so, we're allowing the process to happen and unfold as it needs to naturally. But it is [00:09:00] important to either get proper support if need be, depending on how extreme those emotions are and depending on if we don't feel like we can get through it by ourselves. And it's very important not to have shame around that and to be able to ask for help when we need it. So taking this to ancient Chinese philosophy and really the Tao, which is what Chinese medicine is based on. If you haven't heard the earlier podcasts that I've had where I talk about the Dow and I talk about how it really translates as the way and allows life to flow best in the state of balance and not extremes. So those are things that are really important. So being too positive is actually considered an extreme. Having something where it's not natural for us and we're kind of forcing a smile is considered an extreme. It's not considered a state of balance If you look at it from a [00:10:00] Chinese medicine perspective and ultimately it's really realizing that there is no good or bad when it comes to emotions and there is no good or bad when it comes to states. The best possible harmonious state that you can be in is allowing both the yin and the yang, which are complete opposing forces to harmonize and work to balance each other together in complementaries. And really understanding that yin represents stillness, receptivity, coolness, it's more inert, and yang represents . activity, action and heat. And so many times through the fertility journey, we can be very proactive. We want to do a lot and sometimes we're feeling the feelings that we have. We can go into a yin state and allow ourselves to process that and to be in stillness and to be giving ourselves that space to process whatever it is [00:11:00] that we need to go through, knowing that this harmony, there is no good and bad, and that really ultimately it's about listening to our hearts and allowing what is in its full entirety with no judgment. So you may be asking, where do I go from now? I don't want to feel horrible. I don't want to feel like this difficulty. And I want to think positively because thinking positive can help. Improve physicality and it can help improve a lot of things. And yes, there is truth to that. Absolutely. But it's important to keep it in balance. And ultimately what a lot of the ancients say in a lot of ancient traditions is really neutrality is key to flow. So neutrality is the ultimate state. of yin and yang balance. So when you have both opposites harmonizing, you create a neutrality and that neutrality, that homeostasis is the key to flow [00:12:00] and that allows the flow of your divine intelligence in your mind and your body. And when I say your mind, those are the things that really connects you with your intuition, where it allows you to have the clarity of mind so that you are able to create consciously. And yes, absolutely. You can create consciously in your life. However, if you're creating from a state of stress, then that will taint and underlying the intention of where you're coming from in your creation. So yeah, 100 percent we are creators and 100% thinking in a way that is positive can really impact your journey. So I'm not negating that at all. However, doing so from a place of neutrality so that there's no major attachment and no major resistance to what you don't want or attachment to what you do want. Having a state of neutrality where you're coasting through that, first of [00:13:00] all, is a possibility on the fertility journey. I work with so many people and it is a possibility in the fertility journey. I think one of the biggest misconceptions is that is not possible for me until I have the baby. And that is a misconception because I've seen the possibility of it and I can guarantee you, you can get to the state of neutrality through that. And by doing so, you're actually creating more space in your life in doing so. Now that doesn't mean negating how you feel. And part of getting to that state of neutrality is allowing yourself that space to be in your own authenticity, whatever that may look like at the moment. So I want to make a couple of really key points here is that neutrality, when I talk about neutrality, neutrality is not indifference. So it's not meaning I don't care about anything. I'm just going to be completely numb because that's actually going all [00:14:00] the way to the yin and then trying to be too . positive could be trying too hard and going all the way to the young. It's actually going in the middle. So neutrality is not being indifferent. Neutrality doesn't mean you're not doing anything. It's creating a state of equilibrium and flow where your emotions can rise and fall without pulling you out of alignment. And you can imagine it like a river flowing smoothly. So knowing that obstacles come and go, but the water continues to flow in So when it comes to Chinese medicine perspective, flow is bi directional. It impacts the mind and it impacts the body. If you create flow in the body through Chinese medicine, through herbs and acupuncture, And even Qigong or yoga. So this isn't just for acupuncture. You can create flow in the body many different ways. It will create and reflect as flow in your mind. And if you [00:15:00] create flow in your mind by doing things like meditation and calming your mind, or even chanting or humming, which I guess is also physical, then that will create coherence and flow in your body. So ultimately, when you have flow and coherence in your body and your mind, it will impact your fertility. And that is how I approach my own treatments towards my patients. And also the course that I do when I work with people online, it's all about creating this flow because when you do get this flow, That is the optimal state for your body to conceive. So for example, emotions are very much linked to our organs and you may have heard me talk about this before, but like things like worry or thinking too much can actually impact your digestive system and having, , An imbalanced digestive system will actually cause you to worry more. So sometimes[00:16:00] you'll feel certain emotions that are very much linked to the state of your organs. And anger can disrupt the liver chi or stress can disrupt the liver chi by constricting because the liver is in charge of creating free flow in your body. And so the liver is basically your best friend when it comes to flow, if it is in the right balance. Similarly, if the liver is not optimal, it is going to feel more disrupted when we have other things going on in our life. So it can cause us to feel more stress. So all of these things are bidirectional and fear , is tied to the kidneys, which are really incredibly important when it comes to reproductive vitality and health. So one of the best things that I can mention is if you look at emotions as you would energy, basically, where you look at it from an objective perspective, and a sense of neutrality where you're looking at the emotions as energy or even getting into your body state [00:17:00] when you're going through the emotions and saying, where do I feel this? When you start to look at your body and not think about the ideas and the stories that are connected to the emotions, you'll be able to create a sense of separation because you're observing when you're observing, you can separate. So a couple of practical steps to creating this neutrality is through your acknowledgement of how you're feeling. And you could do this, like I said, through your body or even through journaling. So you can write down certain things, how it makes you feel, and also talking to a friend or a family member or a therapist, depending on how much you feel you need and what you're able to process alone. Another technique that can help us really become more neutral is things like meditation, mindfulness, even yoga, , Tai Chi, moving your body, able to really feel and process your emotions somatically through your [00:18:00] body can help. And then meditations really through your mind, but observing of your body. You can do that, or you can think about your observation of your emotions or your thoughts and watching them, observing them so that you're over time training your mind to separate from that and not get pulled in to those emotions and not get pulled into the ideas or the judgments of them. And you're just able to see it from an objective perspective. Another thing I am personally biased to is acupuncture and herbal support, and those things can definitely help through the physical body and through certain points to, to, balance the nervous system and also create a sense of peace. So that can help a lot with processing emotions. And that is one of the ways you can actually get extra help if you feel like sometimes those emotions can be very overwhelming.[00:19:00] Acupuncture helps tremendously in allowing yourself to process those emotions. I have a lot of people release a lot of emotions while they're doing acupuncture and it could be very, very supportive. There's a lot of. herbal formulas that can support your mind. They can support even the sleep, which in during the sleep, you're actually processing a lot as well. So sleep is really important in processing emotions and processing stress as well. And then also adopting a both and mindset, which gives you permission to feel both hope and frustration, joy and sadness at the same time, allowing yourself to be okay with having opposing emotions for the same exact thing. So then it gives you the space to also feel joy at times and also feel sadness and not giving yourself all or nothing in this whole process. And I think that doing that takes out [00:20:00] the extra added pressure or the guilt that you feel when you do have moments of joy after grieving a loss, really just allowing yourself the space and the freedom to just be however you want to show up. And lastly, limit external pressures. If you find that people are adding more pressure or giving you that toxic positivity, then yes, feel free to set those boundaries. Sometimes it can be just not even mentioning specifics, but just really setting the boundaries and creating space between you and certain people that you feel are adding too much pressure to you. You could also limit external pressures by...
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EP 321 One Woman’s Story of Hope After Nearly Four Years of Unexplained Infertility
01/28/2025
EP 321 One Woman’s Story of Hope After Nearly Four Years of Unexplained Infertility
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Sarah, a woman I worked with, shares her deeply personal fertility journey that was close to four years. She shares her struggles, the various treatments she explored, and the spiritual practices that helped her find hope and healing. She emphasizes the importance of perseverance, the role of alternative therapies like acupuncture, and the significance of finding the right medical support. Sarah's story is one of resilience, faith, and the power of belief in oneself and a higher purpose. Takeaways Sarah struggled with unexplained infertility for three and a half years before seeking treatment. She explored various treatments, including acupuncture and IVF. Visualization and spiritual practices played a crucial role in her journey. Finding the right medical support made a significant difference. Sarah emphasizes the importance of not giving up on the journey. She believes in the power of intuition and listening to one's body. Connecting with nature helped her find peace and clarity. Nutrition and blood flow are essential for fertility. Sarah's experience highlights the importance of sharing stories for hope. She encourages others to start their journey sooner rather than later. For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) I'm so excited to have you on today, Sarah, to share your story. Thank you so much for being willing to open up and inspire others with your journey. I'd love for you to introduce yourself and share a bit about your experience. Sarah (00:20) Thanks for inviting me, Michelle. My name is Sarah, and I struggled with unexplained infertility for three and a half years. I had multiple tests and examinations, visited several doctors, and went through all the standard procedures, but no one could pinpoint the issue. During my research, I discovered that acupuncture could be helpful for infertility, as it promotes relaxation and balance. Along with acupuncture, I learned about the importance of the right supplements. That’s when I found you, Michelle, through your amazing reviews online. I reached out, explained my situation, and shared how I’d been following everything the doctors recommended, eating healthy, but still had no success. What struck me immediately when I met you was your energy and positivity. You weren’t just an acupuncturist; you were like a life coach, guiding me step by step. During our first visit, you assessed my needs, recommended supplements, and started a treatment plan. After just one session, I felt significantly more relaxed. I also started practicing the visualization techniques you suggested, spending time at the beach, watching the sunrise, and focusing on restoring my energy. After five treatments, I was able to get pregnant naturally. It was an incredible moment, and I can’t thank you enough for your guidance and support. Michelle (03:17) I appreciate your kind words, Sarah, but I want to highlight the effort you put into this journey. You took initiative, embraced the practices, and made significant changes—that’s a big deal. Sarah (03:28) Thank you. It was a challenging road, but your support made all the difference. To give some context, I had tried naturally for three and a half years. Then, I underwent four IUIs, but none were successful. During one of those cycles, I worked with another acupuncturist, but it didn’t help. Eventually, I decided to move on to IVF. My first IVF attempt wasn’t successful. The clinic retrieved a few eggs, but only two made it to embryos, and the fresh embryo transfer didn’t work. That experience was emotionally draining. The clinic’s lack of support left me feeling alone and uncertain. That’s when I turned to you. We started acupuncture and supplements, and your guidance helped me approach the process differently. I switched to a new clinic, which was much more supportive. They recommended combining acupuncture with IVF, and this time, everything felt more aligned. Michelle (06:01) It’s amazing how much the right environment and support can make a difference. Sarah (06:22) Absolutely. The second clinic was so thorough and caring. They retrieved more mature eggs, and six of them made it to embryos. We planned a frozen embryo transfer but decided to wait a few months to let my body recover. Meanwhile, I continued with acupuncture and the protocol you recommended. Then, something unexpected happened. Before the transfer, I got pregnant naturally. It was a complete surprise. I couldn’t believe it after everything I had been through. Michelle (08:27) That’s incredible! Your story is so inspiring because you had every reason to feel defeated, yet you never gave up. What kept you going? Sarah (10:00) I’d say it was a combination of faith and determination. I also had a dream after my first failed IVF that really stuck with me. In the dream, a man in brown clothing with a beard stood over me and placed his hands out, giving me energy. It felt like a message not to give up. Michelle (12:14) That’s so powerful. Dreams can be deeply meaningful, especially during such emotional journeys. Sarah (13:32) It was. That dream, combined with my spiritual practices, gave me strength. I started focusing on connecting with God and nature, walking barefoot in the sand, and appreciating the present moment. I also began meditating and visualizing my body healing and preparing for pregnancy. Those practices made a huge difference. Michelle (17:22) It’s amazing how those connections to faith and nature can create such profound shifts. And I remember when you first came in, your hands were very cold, which indicated poor blood flow. Improving circulation was a key part of the treatment. Sarah (18:45) Exactly. My hands aren’t cold anymore, and I feel so much healthier overall. The blood flow improvements and supplements were game-changers. Michelle (19:58) Blood flow is essential for nourishing the body and supporting fertility. In Chinese medicine, when the blood isn’t circulating well, it can cause stress and other issues. Supporting the body holistically allows it to do what it’s meant to do naturally. Sarah (22:33) I agree. Another big takeaway for me was learning that not all clinics or protocols are the same. Switching to a more supportive clinic and waiting for my body to recover before the frozen embryo transfer were critical steps. Patience and intuition played huge roles. Michelle (23:44) Your intuition and persistence were key. And I’ll admit, when I first met you, I had a feeling you’d be successful. But I always try to stay neutral because I never want to give false hope. It’s about supporting the process and trusting your body. Sarah (24:26) Thank you for believing in me. That belief made such a difference, along with everything I learned about visualization and spirituality. I’ve come to realize how powerful those tools are. Michelle (29:23) It’s true. Visualization and faith are incredibly powerful. Thank you so much for sharing your story, Sarah. Your journey will inspire so many others who are navigating similar challenges. Sarah (30:02) Thank you for having me, Michelle. I’m so grateful for the opportunity to share my story and hopefully give hope to others. Never give up—the results are worth it. Michelle (30:30) Absolutely. Thank you again for opening your heart and inspiring others.
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EP 320 Are Cold Plunges good or bad for fertility?
01/21/2025
EP 320 Are Cold Plunges good or bad for fertility?
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I dive into the fascinating world of cold plunges—a trending wellness practice that seems to be everywhere lately. I explore the science behind cold exposure, its incredible health benefits like boosting mood, metabolism, and reducing inflammation, and how it impacts fertility for both men and women. Drawing on both scientific insights and Traditional Chinese Medicine perspectives, I share practical tips on how to use cold plunges mindfully and discuss when and how they might be most beneficial. Whether you’re curious about trying a cold plunge or wondering how it fits into your fertility journey, this episode offers a balanced and intuitive approach to this powerful practice. Takeaways Cold plunges boost mood, energy, and metabolism by activating the sympathetic nervous system. Brown fat activation improves metabolic health and insulin sensitivity. Helps regulate testicular temperature for male fertility but may lower testosterone levels. Reduces inflammation, improves circulation, and supports metabolic health for female fertility. Best done during the follicular phase, not during menstruation. Alternating cold and hot exposure stimulates yin and yang balance. Limit to once a month to avoid creating a "cold" pattern or energy depletion. Pay attention to how your body feels; avoid if it feels draining. May benefit those with PCOS or insulin resistance. Pair with heat exposure for a balanced effect. Avoid overdoing extreme temperature practices for fertility balance. Research on cold plunges: For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I'm your host, Michelle Orbitz, and today we're going to be talking about a hot topic, but it's not so hot. We are talking about cold plunges and you may have heard about the benefits. It seems to be, again, a hot topic, something that you see many people talking about. You see lots of influencers getting to cold plunges. You see them popping up in all kinds of spas. So I wanted to talk about the benefits and not just the benefits, but if they are good for fertility, I often get the question asked by my patients and my fertility clients. So let's dive in. So, let's talk about the science behind cold plunges, really what they do to the body and what they really are. So cold plunges is really going into very, [00:01:00] very cold water, like ice water for a short amount of time. So it could be 30 seconds, it could be up to a few minutes, which honestly I could never do a few minutes of it, but it's really just immersing the body in very cold water and then coming out. Obviously you don't want to stay too long because that's not healthy either. And what that does is it actually activates your sympathetic nervous system, which is the fight or flight response. And when that happens, it actually like stimulates the body and a surge of beta endorphins and noradrenaline occur, and that can impact your energy, it can impact your mood, it also activates brown fat tissue and increasing metabolism, so many different health benefits can occur, and that includes increasing metabolic rates, so It can force the body to work harder to maintain its core temperature, and then what it also does is it forces [00:02:00] the blood to go inwards so that the heat is protected and the blood goes towards your organs. It's also shown to help with insulin sensitivity, so it can improve your response to insulin. And since it helps with metabolism, it can also help with weight management. I personally have done cold plunges in the past, and I will say that it has a very relaxing impact on my body. , not relaxing when you're doing it. Absolutely not. It's very, very stressful actually. And you can feel stressed when you're doing it. And it also causes you to breathe really fast. and it causes, you could definitely feel the stress. So when you're going through that, you're obviously going through some stress cause your body's not used to taking that temperature. But then after you get out, you start to feel the endorphins and you start to feel really relaxed. When I have done it, I've done it in a spa setting where you can [00:03:00] do the cold plunges and then you can go into a warm environment and then go back and forth a couple of times. So what that could do is it actually from a Chinese medicine perspective, what I see it as is that you are forcing yin and yang. mechanism in your body by doing that, it actually wakes up that yin and yang response in the body. And it forces you to go from really cold to really hot to really cool to really hot. And what that can do is when you're forcing that dial, that your body's going to start to regulate itself. It almost instigates or It prompts the body to regulate itself and create balance. There have been a lot of studies that have been published, and it has been found to show lots of health benefits, including health and mood, cardiovascular health. So it definitely seems to be beneficial overall for the health. Now, when it comes to male fertility, the idea is, is[00:04:00] that temperature is really important and it plays a very, very important role when it comes to the testicles. And sperm production requires a temperature of about 3. 6 to 7. 2 degrees Fahrenheit lower than the core body temperature. And this is why the testicles are located outside of the body. So you may have often heard that for male fertility, it's important that they don't heat up the testicle area. So many times people will say not to go into spas or saunas or steam rooms and to avoid hot tubs. And that is the reason why is because having that high temperature is going to cause issues with the sperm production. But it also is the reason why a varicose cell impacts sperm health is because the varicose cell is basically a varicose vein, a vein that's [00:05:00] expanded in the testicular region. for your attention. And where there's blood, there's heat. So because it's expanded, there's more blood volume and that blood volume creates more heat around that area, which impacts sperm production. So the thought is, is that , cold plunges can also maintain the optimal temperature for sperm production by lowering the temperature of the body. However, what's been shown in some cases is that cold stimulation actually decreases testosterone levels by sometimes up to 10%. Is something to definitely consider. So the question is, should you as a male start to do cold plunges or should you just avoid heat and that is. definitely something to consider. So When it comes to female fertility, we know that other benefits are reduced [00:06:00] inflammation for cold plunges, stress reduction, improved circulation, metabolic health. So these are all things that can definitely benefit female fertility. , Now, my thing is, is that I would not suggest to do this all the time if you were to do it. I think that doing it once in a while, maybe once a month, and then also including some, heat exposure for women back and forth, just once in a while to reset the system of the body probably won't hurt. And if anything, it might activate the body and create a more calm response in the body. And as I always say, it's really important to listen to your body. Ultimately, when you feel good, you feel good. it is your body speaking to you and communicating that whatever you're doing makes it feel good. So it is important to follow that. However, if you feel more fatigue, more drained, then your body's telling you maybe don't do it too much. I [00:07:00] personally think because it is an extreme type of stimulation, it might be best to Do this more of a once in a while thing, so no more than once a month, and it might be beneficial to do it once a month because you are stimulating , the yin and yang response for a female body, and you're also possibly lowering inflammation for both male and female. However, doing it more, could also impact having too much cold in the system and I often talk about this in general, that with female fertility specifically, it's important to keep a warm womb and to also not put your feet on cold tile. I always talk about drawing up cold. Now that is also a chronic thing. So doing this all the time. Is a different story than to do it really quickly and then you're right out and then your body has enough time to [00:08:00] regulate so that you're not really doing this chronically and you're not creating like a cold pattern from this quick exposure. So there's a difference between doing something habitually and chronically versus doing something for a quick exposure. It also might help for specific conditions. So my thought would be based on the fact that it lowers inflammation, And of course, again, there's not a lot of studies on this. So this is just really my perspective on it. The fact that it lowers inflammation and the fact that it can increase metabolism and increase insulin sensitivity, I would say it may benefit anybody who's a little more overweight or has PCOS with insulin sensitivity or insulin resistance. So I would say why not try it out, try it once and then don't do it like too many times, too much[00:09:00] repetition. I would definitely try it like about once a month just to get things stimulated. I would also say that I would avoid doing this during the menstrual cycle. I would do this only in the follicular phase after the bleed before ovulation. That would be the only time that I would suggest doing this for women. I would also listen to your body and not overdo it, not stay too long inside the cold plunge especially if it's your first time and you're not used to it. So, test it out. But again, isn't something that I suggest doing on a regular basis. And similarly, I would say the same thing with hot yoga. Hot yoga is great once in a while in moderation, especially if you tend to be something called yin deficiency, you find that your fluids are low, you tend to be more dry, your skin is dry, and you're thirsty a lot. I would definitely suggest,[00:10:00] not to do hot yoga all the time. And I would say I would only suggest it once in a while. If you have a strong constitution that is able to withstand the heat and not get fully, fully depleted for those individuals, I would definitely say once in a while to do hot yoga if it really relaxes you, that's okay. My concern is not to get too depleted by extreme heat or extreme cold. And so it's important to really consider that when you're trying to conceive, you don't want to overdo anything and cause too much stress on the body. A little stress is okay. That's actually normal and it actually helps your body to get stronger. But you just don't want to overdo it. So it really, a lot of this is intuitive. A lot of it is common sense. A lot of it is really paying attention to your body and your body sensations and what your body's telling you. So that is my two cents on the cold plunges. I know this [00:11:00] is a little shorter of an episode compared to what I usually do, but , I felt like it was an important thing to address because it does seem to be a topic that comes up a lot as of late so Those are my thoughts on it. I definitely think it can Stimulate that yin and yang balance by forcing the body. Sometimes that's okay, but you just don't want to do this all the time. So I hope that helped you answer your questions if that was on your mind. And I want to say thank you so much for tuning in today, and I hope you have a beautiful day.
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EP 319 A Story of Resilience, Heartbreak, and Hope on the Journey to Parenthood
01/14/2025
EP 319 A Story of Resilience, Heartbreak, and Hope on the Journey to Parenthood
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I speak to author of “Carry On” @carryonthebook Shea Bart Andreone @shea_andreone . Shea shares her deeply personal journey through fertility challenges, pregnancy struggles, and the emotional rollercoaster of loss and hope. She discusses her desire to become a parent, the difficulties she faced with hyperemesis gravidarum, and the heartbreak of losing a pregnancy. Ultimately, Shea emphasizes the importance of resilience and the joy of welcoming her children into the world. In this heartfelt conversation, Shea Bart Andreone shares her journey through the challenges of parenthood, including loss, the search for control, and the importance of community support. She discusses her book 'Carry On', which compiles true stories of individuals navigating the complexities of starting a family. The conversation emphasizes the significance of hope and resilience in the face of adversity, and the need for emotional support in healing. Be sure to tune in as you won’t want to miss our deeply touching and hope filled conversation! Takeaways Shea always wanted to be a parent and started her journey with high hopes. Fertility struggles are common and can be emotionally taxing. Hyperemesis gravidarum is a severe form of morning sickness that can lead to significant health challenges. Shea experienced extreme nausea and weight loss during her pregnancy. The emotional toll of pregnancy loss is profound and can lead to feelings of guilt and despair. Shea's journey highlights the unpredictability of pregnancy and the importance of being adaptable. The desire to have children can drive individuals to persevere through immense challenges. Finding peace is possible, even amidst uncertainty. Loss can lead to discovering new activities that provide control. Writing can be a powerful outlet for processing experiences. Community support is crucial for those facing fertility challenges. The journey of parenthood can be isolating without connection. Stories of others can provide comfort and understanding. It's important to seek out community and support during difficult times. Guest Bio: Shea Bart Andreone was raised in Queens, New York, but moved west and loves California. She is a writer of numerous plays, essays, and maintains a blog called Twig Hugger. Shea has written multiple articles for mom and parent-oriented platforms (The Next Family, Motherfigure, LA Parent, Your Teen Magazine, and Chicken Soup For The Soul). Carry On is her first book and she hopes that it can provide hope and comfort to those who are on the fertility journey. Websites: Instagram: @carryonthebook @shea_andreone X: X.comCarryOnTheBook For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Shea Bart Andreone (00:01) Thank you. Thanks for having me. Michelle (00:04) Yeah, it's a pleasure having you and I would love for you to share your story and what got you inspired to write your book Carry On. would love for you to share that with the listeners. Shea Bart Andreone (00:17) I would love to. So I always loved kids. I always wanted a younger sibling. I wanted to babysit when my parents decided they were never gonna have another child. I'm the youngest with a big age gap. So I took on all things that could keep me around. Michelle (00:36) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (00:45) kids so that I felt like I could be a big sister or a babysat. And I taught kids and ran day camps and stuff like that. I always knew that I wanted to be a parent and start a family. So when I did finally find the person to do that with, I thought, okay, well, when we get to that moment, it's just gonna be easy peasy and you know, that's so exciting. We make the decision and we go. And of course, like every listener of your podcast and many, many more people around the world, it doesn't always work that way. So it took me quite a bit of time to figure out what to do. You you're instructed pretty quickly to try for longer and I just, think I knew something was going to stop me unless I got help, but I, I did see my regular OB at the time and she suggested that we do an HSG, where they flush the iodine up your fallopian tubes. And she discovered that, I, I, you can really feel that. Michelle (02:04) Not a fun test. Yeah, it's crazy, but I hear so many things, so many stories, and I just wish doctors would just let people know like what's coming. Shea Bart Andreone (02:19) Yeah, like exactly what you're gonna feel. Yeah, no, we have to experience it for ourselves. So that resulted in finding out that I had a fibroid right at the opening of my uterus. So I had scheduled the surgery to get it removed and somehow in... Michelle (02:21) Yeah. Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (02:48) that, well, not somehow. We know how making babies can work. I guess my husband and I were continuing to try and because of the HSG, it pushed the fibroid a little bit out of the way and I was able to actually conceive. But the fibroid and the pregnancy, they were fighting for the blood supply. Michelle (03:16) So just backing up, were you about to do surgery for it, but then you stopped because you got pregnant? Shea Bart Andreone (03:22) Yeah, so I scheduled a surgery and then ended up in crazy, crazy pain. like pain I'd never experienced before, like just shocking, like sharp, sharp pain. And I ended up calling the doctor and she said, go to the emergency room. And it was in the emergency room that I found out I was actually pregnant. Michelle (03:30) Mm. wow. Shea Bart Andreone (03:52) And I was told basically, you gotta just kind of deal with this because they didn't know which one would win out. So I waited and I took whatever I could for pain, but not a lot, because I was like, well, I think I had a feeling like, no, no, no, I'm pregnant. Like, this is amazing. Michelle (04:06) Got it. wow, you felt it before they confirmed it? Shea Bart Andreone (04:22) No, no, no. I definitely didn't know when I went in, but once I was, I was very protective. I was like, no, I don't, you can tell me all you want that like, there's a chance this won't stick, but I'm going to protect this. So I was very, very careful. And then in the end, that doctor was really not helpful. And I had like, Michelle (04:25) Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. For sure. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (04:51) crazy pain on the following Monday and ended up like my sister-in-law said, just go to my doctor, just go to my doctor. So I went to her doctor and I had a very like strong clear line in the sand that I would not go to a male doctor. And I felt like at that point I was like, okay, like we all have things on this journey that we think we're not gonna do. And we think we're gonna like, Michelle (05:09) Mm-hmm. Yes. Shea Bart Andreone (05:19) okay, I'm never gonna do IVF or I'm never gonna do IUI and I'm not gonna, and then like, you're like, well, I'm gonna change that. So I started with him and I really do think that because of that situation, I ended up in the right hands. So luckily for me, like that pregnancy ended up sticking. Michelle (05:22) It's true. that's great. Shea Bart Andreone (05:49) and that fibroid eventually just sort of died off. However, within, I think I felt good for like two weeks and then I started feeling symptoms of hyperemesis gravidarum, which is, yeah, a few weeks in, I started feeling severely nauseous and, Michelle (06:06) Mm-hmm. You mean early in the pregnancy. Mm-hmm. Right. Shea Bart Andreone (06:18) I thought, okay, well, this will pass. This is what they tell people, like, know, morning sickness, but it's not morning sickness. Hyperamesis Gravidarum is like, if I threw up eight times in a day, that was a really good day. And I broke all the blood vessels in my face daily from the pressure of vomiting. And the blood vessels in my eyes were... Michelle (06:35) Wow, yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (06:48) Like my, I had bloodshot eyes and just could not remember a time that I liked food. Like it was so awful to me. Like the idea of it, sipping water, anything. And originally, like... Michelle (07:04) Yeah, that's that's a big thing, too, because people get dehydrated. Shea Bart Andreone (07:08) Yeah, yeah, and I tried everything. tried like, you know, motion sickness bands and you know, there were lollipops that were supposed to help and ice pops and nothing, nothing, nothing. And I just didn't want anything. And that, you know, began the insane journey of my pregnancy because that led me to lose about 15 pounds. Michelle (07:18) Mm-hmm. Wow. Shea Bart Andreone (07:37) And my doctor didn't quite realize how bad it was. And when he did, he was like, I am giving you medication that is going to stop the, you know, the vomiting for a few days and you have to eat. If you do not gain weight by Monday or stay the same, I have to admit you for a feeding tube. So we took the weekend. Michelle (07:54) Yeah. Wow. Shea Bart Andreone (08:06) And my husband was like, can you think of anything, any food you ever liked? And I was like, pizza. Michelle (08:18) Ha ha ha ha! Shea Bart Andreone (08:21) For like kid food, I went to growing up, had, I think was, had Elio's frozen pizza and tater tots. And I was like, I don't even know where that came from, but okay, let's try that. And the medication was so intense that you basically like, you could eat and then you'd fall asleep. And so that started on a Friday and Saturday midday, I woke up and I felt like, Michelle (08:23) Yeah. The simple things. Shea Bart Andreone (08:51) I couldn't stop moving. Like I was very restless. And I felt like this must be what restless leg syndrome is like, but it feels like this for my whole body. And that was crazy because I'd never experienced a situation like that before where you feel like it's out of control. Like you can't say kind of wreaks havoc on your mind because you don't want to keep moving, but you are. Michelle (08:53) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. wow. Shea Bart Andreone (09:21) Yeah. Michelle (09:21) Yeah, yeah. Is that from, was that from the medication side effect? my God, you poor thing. You got tortured. Shea Bart Andreone (09:25) Yeah. It's the yeah, it got worse too. Then I got jaw lock. Michelle (09:31) no. no. Shea Bart Andreone (09:37) So like my entire jaw just locked to one side. And once that started, it didn't let go for 16 hours. Michelle (09:42) no. my God. Shea Bart Andreone (09:51) And the only thing that would help is sometimes I could put all my upper body weight over my husband's shoulder and it would like kind of fall. And at one point in that time it moved to the other side, but it was so uncomfortable and so painful. And I remember walking to use the bathroom at some point and looking at the toilet and thinking, I'd actually rather throw up than this. Like, I'm like. Michelle (10:01) Mm-hmm. Mm. poor thing. my gosh. And was that also from the medication? Wow. Shea Bart Andreone (10:24) Yeah. And it's interesting how your brain can only focus on one thing at a time, because in the back of my mind, I was like, how could I remain pregnant through all of this? my body is going through so much trauma right now. I don't know how. And Michelle (10:34) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (10:49) I knew that my husband was thinking the same thing, but we weren't discussing it because I was so distracted by the pain and the discomfort. But I knew that he was calling the doctor and trying to find out like, would this baby be okay? And fortunately he got the answer that like, this, guess what you eat doesn't. Michelle (11:08) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (11:18) always and what you what medicine doesn't always go fully like you do filter those things out to a degree. And I remember the next, you know, that was over the weekend and I went back and I, I was able to maintain my weight. So he did not have to send me to the hospital. But I remember, like waiting with bated breath to see that ultrasound on Monday morning. And Michelle (11:46) Yeah. Shea Bart Andreone (11:46) there was the baby inside with its legs crossed and an arm back and like yeah I've been fine in here. Michelle (11:55) lounging. That's amazing. Shea Bart Andreone (12:00) Like, I know you've been in hell, but I'm having a vacation. Michelle (12:03) I'm sure you tell the story. It's interesting because my mom actually reminded me again. You have stories that you just keep hearing over and over and over again. But truthfully, mean, suffered secondary infertility to conceive me. So I'm kind of a product of secondary infertility. And she's tried and tried and tried. She said every time I get my period, I cry. Shea Bart Andreone (12:06) Yeah. Michelle (12:28) And it was really the stories of the people that I treat. It's so crazy how that comes full circle. And I'm kind of like the proof that a woman can go through all of this and still have a baby. And she also had the same thing. I don't know how severe it was, but to the point where she lost so much weight, she was under a hundred pounds and her doctor said, listen, we got to abort this child. You're not going to survive. And she's like, no way. You know, and it was, it's pretty crazy. You know, you go through this journey and then you advice that you're like, no, no, no, no, no, this is not happening. Shea Bart Andreone (13:04) Yeah, you get advice and then also like you try again and willingly enter something this crazy because the power and the, you know, the need and the, yeah. Yeah. That desire to have children is, is pretty huge. pretty, it's, it's, it's quite magical and Michelle (13:10) Mm-hmm. The belief really, right? The belief in that desire. Shea Bart Andreone (13:34) wondrous, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Michelle (13:37) I agree. I think it's meant to be there. Like, I don't think that it's a random thing. People feel that really strong calling and I don't think it's random. It's not just something that was kind of planted there for no reason. I think it's because you're meant to find the baby in one way the other. Like you were saying before about how maybe you don't expect it to be IVF, but maybe it is, and then you can kind of go back and forth. But even with... egg donor or embryo donor or even adoption. I've had people talk about that and they said I was meant to have that baby. Like it was that calling. just that I was trying to control how it was going to show up. Shea Bart Andreone (14:17) Yeah, yeah, it's really wild. mean, the things when you listen to other people's stories, sometimes you're like, why didn't you stop? And like, mean, or how did you keep going? How did you persevere? like, I follow someone online who is pregnant right now. And this is the first positive pregnancy test that she's gotten in over eight, like in eight years of trying. While you wait. Michelle (14:28) Mm-hmm. I think I saw that one. Yes. It was amazing. It was really, my God, I got the chills with the video that she showed. was like, that was amazing. Shea Bart Andreone (14:47) Yes, it was amazing! Yeah, like to see that double line. yeah, that's a long time. And people go through a lot. And it is not something for anyone on the outside to judge or decide or advise on because that desire, like you said, it's pretty wild. Yeah, yeah. Michelle (14:57) Yeah, after eight years. Yeah. It's real. Shea Bart Andreone (15:22) So in the end, I did get a very healthy baby and a baby girl. did not find out the gender and in the middle of a contraction, my husband, we had names for both a boy and a girl and in the middle of a contraction, my husband goes, I gotta tell you something. I don't like the boy's name. And I was like, I can't talk to you right now. Michelle (15:45) That's funny. That is so funny. Shea Bart Andreone (15:52) So for that sake, we were very happy to have a girl. Like we were happy to have a girl anyway. think we admitted to each other we really wanted a girl, but like, obviously we would have been over the moon for anything except that I don't know what we would have named that boy. So, you know, when she was about... Michelle (15:59) Yeah. Yeah, that's so funny. Shea Bart Andreone (16:17) close to three. I wanted some time. I was really, really enjoying just like feeling healthy and raising a baby and not rushed to have another one. And so I thought, okay, well, when she like goes into preschool, then I can try to do this again. And this time I did get pregnant right away. And was pretty sick right away as well. And my doctor found this team that like sends an IV, like teaches you guys, like a couple to do their own IVs. And I was set up to give myself, to put a port into my belly every morning with an IV that I wore as a pack. Michelle (17:01) Mm. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (17:16) that was to help me to stop throwing up. And unfortunately, I feel like, you know, anything I deal with, like there's research that comes out like a year or two later that like, that could have helped me in that situation, but unfortunately it didn't. But the medicine that was given to me at the time is no longer on the market for pregnancies because it can stop the heart from beating. So in... Michelle (17:33) wow. Uh-huh. my gosh, wow. Shea Bart Andreone (17:55) you know, at our 12 week ultrasound, which I was hoping to celebrate, was, and talk about like power and instinct. That morning, I felt like something was wrong. And I don't know where that feeling came from, because it's too soon at that point to really feel anything, you know. Michelle (18:15) my gosh. Shea Bart Andreone (18:24) moving around, but I just felt like something was wrong. And I remember looking at the sky and it was like this perfect blue and telling myself that no matter what happens today, that sky is still going to be blue. And just to hold on to like, not everything is lost. And I don't, I really don't even know why I felt this like foreboding, foreshadowing feeling. but Michelle (18:43) Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (18:54) know, the doctor was, we were waiting in the room for the doctor and my husband was joking around and I said, I don't know, I don't feel like joking around. you know, when the doctor came in all friendly right away, I said, don't feel, I feel like some, I was very straightforward in a way that I don't think I usually am. And I was right, there was no heartbeat. Michelle (19:03) Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. Shea Bart Andreone (19:21) and I was too far along to like have anything done in the office. So I had to get checked into the hospital and yeah, it was really, really rough and awful because I felt like... I tried so hard to do the right thing and to...
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EP 318 The Mystical Journey of Conception | Kelly Meehan
01/07/2025
EP 318 The Mystical Journey of Conception | Kelly Meehan
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Kelly Meehan of @spiritbabymedium discusses her new book,'Notes from a Spirit Baby Medium,' and explores the themes of intuition, spirit baby communication, and the importance of community in the healing process. She emphasizes the connection between past experiences and intuition, the mystical journey of conception, and how babies communicate with their parents. The discussion highlights the significance of understanding one's own energy and the role of community in fostering healing and connection. In this conversation, we explore the profound connection between emotions, consciousness, and the external world. We discuss the importance of self-awareness, the journey of awakening, and the challenges of navigating personal healing while supporting others. Our conversation also delves into the complexities of grief and loss, particularly in the context of miscarriage, and highlights the significance of spirit baby communication as a resource for healing. Takeaways Kelly's new book focuses on spirit baby communication. Intuition is a natural instinct that everyone possesses. Past experiences can hinder one's ability to trust intuition. Community plays a vital role in healing and connection. Babies are evolving and communicate with their parents. Frequency affects conception and the energy of babies. Meditation helps in understanding and connecting with intuition. Awareness of one's own energy is crucial for personal growth. Our consciousness can impact the world we perceive. Awakening can happen suddenly, like a light switch. Navigating personal healing requires setting boundaries. Grief and loss are unique experiences for everyone. Self-compassion is crucial during times of loss. Presence and connection are vital in supporting others. Emotions dictate much of our health and well-being. Meditation can aid in processing grief and loss. Spirit baby communication offers a unique healing perspective. Guest Bio: Kelly Meehan is a healing visionary, author of Notes From A Spirit Baby Medium - Everything you need to know about spirit baby communication, a birth advocate, and a holistic mother to her sons Rain and Forest. Her loving support and teachings focus on spirit baby communication in conception, energetic fertility wellness, intuitive health with medical intuition, pre-birth pregnancy communication, and sacred grief support in all areas of birth loss(miscarriage, stillbirth, termination & newborn to toddler). Kelly understands how to listen to the unseen and deeply felt world of spirit baby and conscious parenting. Kelly shares her newest published book *Notes from A Spirit Baby Medium- Everything you need to know about spirit baby communication*This insightful book explores Spirit Baby Communication 101, testimonials and real messages from spirit baby, and how to bring intuition & psychic self awareness into your conception, pregnancy, and or healing birth loss. Available for purchase NOW! Amazon & Ingram Spark. Kelly is the creator and host of podcast with over 200 episodes by the end of 2024. She has been in the media on birth related and spiritual podcasts and radio shows as a guest expert, being invited and attending over 40 online global summits with topics such as: fertility, pregnancy, grief, and spirituality. She has been featured in Blogs and magazines, and articles. She has been on a TV Show (Nighttime Prime) Nick MOMS sharing her work. Websites: Social Media: Instagram: Facebook: Facebook: SPIRIT BABIES: Conscious Conception, Intuitive Pregnancy, & Motherhood Facebook: Twitter: YouTube: For more information about Michelle, visit: Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome back to the podcast, Kelly. Kelly (00:03) Thank you for having me again. Michelle (00:05) I'm so excited to have you back. first of all, congratulations on your new book. Kelly (00:12) Yay, thank you. Do want me to tell you the title? Yes. Michelle (00:15) Yes. Tell us the title and tell us all about it. You've been on the podcast before. If you want to give us kind of like a brief background for people who are hearing you for the first time and haven't heard the podcast before, I would love for you to share your background and then also talk about your new book. Kelly (00:26) Yes. Yeah, thank you. As always, I love Michelle and her work and yay. And I remember when you were writing your book, I was like, it was motivating me. was like, we're kind of like near each other, but then yours came out and it was awesome. And then I'm like, wait, where's my book? And so I'm Kelly. I go by Spirit Baby Media, medical intuitive and mentor. And I support that conception and pregnancy, birth loss in many different psychic energetic ways. Michelle (00:37) I love Kelly! you Kelly (01:03) And my new book is called Notes from a Spirit Baby Medium, Everything You Need to Know About Spirit Baby Communication. And yeah, what else are we sharing? What do you want to know? Michelle (01:15) Okay, let's talk about it all. Let's talk about first of all, what intuition is how you connect with it and how you've kind of like, figured out that you have that. Kelly (01:27) Yeah, I love it. I actually I'm not going to divulge too much of this. I share a story in the beginning of the book on what brought me into the work. And it is a really fun story. And was like, Whoa, it's there. And so really, basically, I've always had extra sensory perception. I was born very different. Not only was it traumatic. I know we all have very traumatic, but sometimes in the trauma, you know, you work harder as the infant to be in the world. And sometimes it does open up other levels of perceptions and abilities. And I didn't really fully discover that until I was a teenager. I feel like puberty is a very big time of expression. Puberty, you know, we can even go into like moon paws, I call it menopause, like these big, you know, shifts in our physiology, but also into our consciousness. And I just had feeling, perceptions, and it was nonstop after that until today. And I brought it. my energetic psychological background, brought it into the energy of children and babies and supporting, again, the psychic, the energetic, the spiritual in therapeutic and loving ways. And the book has been written over a decade of my heart in the work. It's like, what have I seen? What have I known? And spirit baby communication is a term, but also, There's not a lot of books now more after 2020. I feel like there's way more information. But before that, there really wasn't a lot about the before life. And I thought I've been writing the book for a long time and I go into the really the great mysteries because it's not like here is the here's the secrets of the before life, right? It's just like the afterlife of death. There's things that we feel and know because I do feel like it is inside us. There's a wisdom inside us that Michelle (03:10) Mm-hmm. Kelly (03:19) we are always in relationship with. my mission is to share that. And you just talk about intuition, it's all connected to that because we are naturally instinctually intuitive beings. And we can bring that in any part of our lives, whether in conception, outside of conception. And it's very valuable because we're all born too. We're all, my often joke is you were once a spirit baby being too. we don't, right? Michelle (03:42) Mm-hmm. I love that. That's great. It's true. Kelly (03:49) Nobody thinks about that, but like, you know, let's say someone's on a fertility journey and they're struggling. Have you ever looked at your own birth into the world? Most people would say no. I don't know. My mom says it's good or she didn't like it or I wasn't breathing or she had birth loss before me or after and like, whoa, those are big things to the foundational formation of your reality and the consciousness of your parents in those times. Michelle (03:59) Right. Kelly (04:18) through loss, through struggle, through whatever, and they seep through, right? And so, yeah, remembering we were once all spirit baby beings and we come into this world and many of us, you know, looking to deepen that connection, like where are my children? I'm ready for that next level. And then I feel like then, know, Michelle, then the lessons begin. You know, there's, I don't think it's ever easy. Michelle (04:35) Mm-hmm. Yes. Kelly (04:45) You know, like some people say, I guess it's all your perception of ease, right? Because having children is a huge heart commitment. It's not, you know, just, I don't think it's nonchalant. I think it's something powerful in in-between worlds that we bring life into this world. And that's something to reflect with too. It's incredible. And sometimes it takes longer for some people. And some people are still working towards it, you know? Michelle (05:12) For sure. And I was thinking while you were talking, there's just so much we're not conscious of. I think about that, like when it comes to intuition, it's just that we all have it. It's built in. It's kind of part of our working. it's part of what made us. It's that connection to why we're here. but we're so not conscious of so many things and we're not conscious of things that can actually provide us empowerment. Kelly (05:43) No, and I blame culture, society, and subconscious programming. I have to laugh. We have to laugh sometimes because it could be very serious and there's a lot of fear. But I know me and Michelle, talked before, we're very optimistic, and even beyond that for the future that... Michelle (05:51) Yeah. Kelly (06:03) people will be intact with trusting their intuition more and more. And it's a really beautiful thing because your intuition is your own. It's not my intuition. Right? It's like, and that's the beautiful intelligence of just being alive and having a body is that we get to use our energy and connection with it in different ways. And sometimes we need to really slow down and be in the quiet, right? Michelle (06:13) Yeah. Kelly (06:27) through different practices to find our way, right? Especially when it's noisy, noisy life, noisy town, or maybe noisy city, noisy even upbringing, or maybe there's old energies that are noisy as well. But intuition is, to me, is a basic instinct. It's just like, yeah, like there, and you... We do all use it all the time. Even if people feel like, I don't know if I use it. I'm like, you can distrust it and ignore it, but it's still there, right? Michelle (06:57) Yeah, for sure. Without a doubt. I feel like we all remember a time where we didn't listen to it and it was something important. We all remember those times. We're like, I knew it. I knew it and I didn't listen. And of course we remember it it was such a strong lesson. We felt it and we're like, my God. Kelly (07:07) Yes. Yes. I think those are good when they happen. You know why? Because then it goes, you go, my gosh, like, see, like I told you so. And then you get to go, I feel like we get to stop and pause and have that awareness. And awareness is everything. And then almost to me is like creating a map of it, like a design. Like, that's that connection and let's see what happens. And then you may be playing around with fear and intuition for a little bit to find the differences, which is very natural. But once we get really clear on ourselves, which is really through embodiment practices, through really healing our old traumas and our wounds, especially with parents, mother and father energies are so big because we get from that and we're like sifting through and finding where we are. And in that, you know, Michelle (07:55) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kelly (08:02) I pride myself in my intuition and I say that with such my own reverence because I do feel like I'm very intuitive and there's no shame in that. And I feel like are there times where I'm unintuitive? There are times where I'm fearful, but not unintuitive. I'm always intuitive, but the fear, if I know, I know myself very well that when fear comes up and there's sometimes, you know, I've managed it where it's fleeing these days. Michelle (08:18) Mm-hmm. Kelly (08:32) But sometimes big things will come in and I'm like, that sucks. I have to say it. I'm going, ooh, that's an unwinding. was like, ooh, this is big. And sometimes it has a lot to do with our, actually all the time it has to do with our past. Because present time, there's nothing wrong in the present time. And so, you know, it's like, learning the difference. And I do talk about that in my book, On a Conception Journey, Pregnancy Journey. Michelle (08:36) Yeah. Yeah, right. Kelly (08:59) healing through lost journey, but I just think basic human nature journey, you're born, you're in a body, you were a baby being, it's like, you know, we're coming into re-remembrance more than anything with it. And that's great. And again, like you were saying, like, yeah, like, I've had times growing up where I could have been in bad situations, you know, when you're like in your 20s, like. let's go party or do this. then something always shifted me and then something weird would happen. And I was like, whoa, what is that? So it also is very automatic pilot too. Sometimes we're not getting that like loud sound. it's, when that happens, I go, wow, okay. I was like, wow, I'm an automatic intuitive pilot sometimes. And I love that because it just means I'm just connecting with nature and just being, right? That feels important. Michelle (09:54) Yeah, for sure. And also talk about connecting with your own intuition as a person who may not be used to doing that. Kelly (10:03) So the biggest obstacle to trusting intuition is going to be your past, right? And the environment that you're in creation with. just like, you know, because think about it when we were little children, we were so pure and intuitive and everything was connected. But then we become a part of the world in a way where we take on our families loads and lessons and it can even go further back. And we do sometimes have to find our way back to it and move into what was always there. Michelle (10:08) Mm-hmm. Like the memory. Mm-hmm. Kelly (10:33) Right? So I think if somebody's saying, well, I'm not intuitive and I don't know what I'm doing, I'd say, are you grounded in your body even? And where is your body? Like, what is this vessel? And where is your own heart energy? Right? There's so many different ways we can take it. And then I think that hanging out with other people of like heart, like mind is infectious. And it will change our frequency and vibration to be in those spaces. Michelle (10:41) Mm-hmm. Kelly (11:00) So communities, this is the future forward energy is all about community. Even I just presented on an energy lecture for fertility community and the women were just amazing because it's like they have that synergistic connection and they were more connected than they probably realize, right? Because that's what we do. We may not even realize it. And I love that because it makes life more spontaneous and but also we're relational. We want connection. Michelle (11:02) Yeah, this is true, 100%. Mm-hmm. Right. It's true. it, I feel like when you combine energies, just multiplies the vibe. Kelly (11:38) Yes. Yes. Michelle (11:40) And when you are going through, you know, I'm going to give you an example. have one of my patients and it happens sometimes where it takes a really long time for them to conceive and they struggle and they go through IVF and then that doesn't work. And I had one actually recently who after finally, after a year and then some of coming to me, she finally spontaneously got pregnant. but she had connected with her spirit baby because she got these crazy signs that were insane. I'm going to eventually have her on the podcast once she gives birth because I want her to get through it and then have her come on so she could tell the story. but so I have people going through that, but like before you even get to that point, It could be so daunting. And then you're just wondering why is this not happening? So I know for every individual, it's very unique, but I wanted to get your thoughts on that. Like why sometimes it gets derailed. It eventually happens, but why it can get derailed for so long. And is that something that connects with the spirit of baby's timing or what are your thoughts on that? Kelly (12:52) There's probably a lot of different answers for that one, right? Because everybody has their own connection and journey. And it is quite baffling when you're like, deepening and working and then all of a sudden, wow, what just happened? And I think it's pretty even more profound that she actually received communication and that she listened. Yeah, you gotta tell me when this episode comes because I'm so curious. Michelle (12:55) Yeah. She got crazy communication. Some of the stuff was so insanely, it was crazy. She'd get bottle of wine. It was a name that she just knew that it was going to be the name and then she saw the name on TV and then she'd get a bottle of wine with that name and it's not a typical average name. Kelly (13:29) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michelle (13:34) And it was a girl's name and she knew it was going to be a girl based on that. And even when she got pregnant, she was like, I know it's going to be a girl. She told even the doctors like, whatever, I know it's going to be a girl. And it was a girl. It was just so insane and like really amazing. she kept seeing that before she even conceived. And she kept seeing that also when she had her failed retrievals and she was going to do another retrieval. And that's when she conceived naturally, just spontaneously. But it's Kelly (13:41) Bye. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Michelle (14:03) know, it kind of defies the odds because you're like, well, I don't have any proof right now. And I can base it on my history and say, how's, how's this possible? How would this happen? But then it does. Kelly (14:17) This is where I'd say, yeah, this is where I'd say some things live in the realms of mysticism, right? Especially with baby. And I know I've seen stuff like this happen before where it's like the struggle, the struggle, the struggle, and then pushing with intervention and all of a sudden baby comes naturally. And I've seen this with a few different women over the years. And it's like, it blows them away and they're so confused and everything comes down to frequency. Michelle (14:44) Mm-hmm. Kelly (14:44) And when I use the term frequency, every single person is set in tone to a certain frequency. And we can even look at it as though we have a sound to us. And you know this because think about people that you meet and you're like, do not get along with them or they don't even see you because your frequencies are different radio stations. And there's nothing wrong with...
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EP 317 Navigating Sensitivity on the Fertility Journey | Dr. Amelia Kelley
12/31/2024
EP 317 Navigating Sensitivity on the Fertility Journey | Dr. Amelia Kelley
In this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Dr. Amelia Kelley @drameliakelley , a trauma-informed therapist, discusses her journey and insights into high sensitivity, coping mechanisms, and the impact of trauma on mental health. She explores the differences between empathy and compassion, the importance of understanding one's nervous system, and shares her personal fertility journey, highlighting the integration of holistic approaches such as acupuncture and herbal medicine. In this conversation, Dr. Amelia Kelley and Michelle explore the complexities of pregnancy loss, trauma, and the role of the nervous system in fertility. They discuss the importance of letting go of control and embracing spirituality, as well as the dynamics of being a highly sensitive person (HSP). The conversation delves into the benefits of body awareness and how it can aid in healing, while also addressing the challenges HSPs face in relationships and daily life. Ultimately, they highlight the adaptive nature of high sensitivity and its prevalence in the population, encouraging listeners to embrace their sensitivity as a gift rather than a burden. Takeaways Coping skills should be viewed as a lifestyle. High sensitivity is a genetic trait, not a flaw. Empathy can have negative health effects. Highly sensitive people require more alone time for regulation. Generational trauma can impact reproductive health. Understanding one's nervous system is crucial for coping. Holistic approaches can aid in fertility journeys. Stress and nervous system balance are crucial for fertility. Highly sensitive people (HSPs) experience the world differently. Body awareness can enhance healing processes. HSPs often respond more positively to therapeutic interventions. High sensitivity is an adaptive trait found in many individuals. Embracing sensitivity can lead to greater self-awareness and compassion. Guest Bio: Dr. Amelia Kelley is a trauma-informed therapist, author, co-host of The Sensitivity Doctor's Podcast, researcher, and certified meditation and yoga instructor. Her specialties include art therapy, internal family systems (IFS), EMDR, and brainspotting. Her work focuses on women’s issues, empowering survivors of abuse and relationship trauma, highly sensitive persons, motivation, healthy living, and adult ADHD. She is currently a psychology professor at Yorkville University and a nationally recognized relationship expert featured on SiriusXM Doctor Radio’s The Psychiatry Show as well as NPR’s The Measure of Everyday Life. Her private practice is part of the Traumatic Stress Research Consortium at the Kinsey Institute. She is the author of Powered by ADHD: Strategies and Exercises for Women to Harness their Untapped Gifts (whichhas a corresponding online support group!), Gaslighting Recovery for Women: The Complete Guide to Recognizing Manipulation and Achieving Freedom from Emotional Abuse, coauthor of What I Wish I Knew: Surviving and Thriving After an Abusive Relationship, as well as Surviving Suicidal Ideation: From Therapy to Spirituality and the Lived Experience, and a contributing author for Psychology Today, ADDitude Magazine, as well as Highly Sensitive Refuge, the world’s largest blog for HSPs. Her work has been featured in Teen Vogue, Yahoo News, Lifehacker, Well + Good and Insider. You can find out more about her work at https://www.ameliakelley.com. Follow her on Instagram @drameliakelley For more information about Michelle, visit: Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast Amelia. Dr. Amelia Kelley (00:02) Thank you for having me. It's good to see you again. Michelle (00:04) It's so good to see you. So Amelia's had me on her podcast, the sensitivity doctors in the past, and I would love for you to share your background. I am really interested and very intrigued by what you do because it's something that we spoke about. I totally relate to. I love the fact that you've authored so many books and have such an interesting background. So I would love to have the. Dr. Amelia Kelley (00:26) Hehehe Michelle (00:30) audience hear you. Dr. Amelia Kelley (00:32) Sure. Well, I'm currently in my office. So I'm a trauma informed therapist, professor, and podcaster, which is how you and I met. And I've been in the field for 20 years now. I primarily work with trauma of various forms, but a lot of it is interpersonal trauma, relationship trauma, some issues with sexual abuse, some instances where I also work with per... a lot of first responders, so cops, doctors, and also folks from the military. So I'd say that my work is kind of an intersection. I sometimes call myself an integrative therapist because just before our session, I was doing a yoga therapy session. I do everything from EMDR, brain spotting, yoga therapy, art therapy is actually my background, sand play therapy. Michelle (01:02) Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:27) I'm so into the brain too. I mean, I'm not, I would not say that my practice is comprehensive in neurofeedback. We do some minor interventions, but I love referring my clients to practitioners in the area to make sure that their brain health is on par too. And I also love referring to Carolina Clinic of Natural Medicine is my favorite in the area, but they do things like acupuncture and. Michelle (01:40) Hmm. Mm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (01:54) kind of holistic health, which I know really aligns with what you do. So, yeah. Michelle (01:59) it's interesting because as you start to do anything, you start to find out how many different layers and different ways and methodologies that certain people respond to better than others. there's just so many different methods. And I think that some people just respond better to some. Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:10) Right. Right. yeah. I think that's a great thing about coping skills. First and foremost, I love the idea of obliterating this idea that a coping skill is like work or that it's something that you only do when you're struggling. I think it's more of a lifestyle. And everyone is going to respond differently. Like I know I personally... Michelle (02:35) Yes. Dr. Amelia Kelley (02:41) water is very big for me. Like if I'm really stressed or I'm dysregulated, getting in hot water or cold water is very regulating for my nervous system. Whereas I have clients who the last thing they want to do when they're stressed or dysregulated is shower or get in water. It's actually one of the first things that they stop wanting to do. Michelle (02:51) Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:04) So it's so interesting seeing how we all respond differently, I think, in our own unique nervous system when we're under stress. Michelle (03:11) Yeah, definitely. I find that also with my patients. mean, some people, be much more open to like things like meditation, other people, there's other ways to self soothing, which I call it, because ultimately, that's really what it is. So yeah, it definitely isn't work. sounds like work. Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:20) Mm Mm-hmm. Right. Michelle (03:30) but it's not work. think the biggest work is really the strategy and kind of figuring it out. But ultimately it's really there to soothe you at times that you feel overwhelmed. Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:35) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Michelle (03:44) So let's talk about the sensitive person because I've always felt that that was something that I can describe myself as when I was younger. It was something that I felt I found myself more overwhelmed by noises, by certain people's energy than other people. And people would just be like, you're too sensitive or you focus on things too much. And Dr. Amelia Kelley (03:52) Mm Okay. Michelle (04:08) It was something that I realized, as I met other people like me. I was like, wait, this is kind of a thing. And then when I learned about it, that it really is a thing, I found it really interesting. And it also, I found it very comforting. So it's like, okay, I'm like, I'm not abnormal. Like this isn't crazy. Yeah. So I would love for you to talk about that. So I feel like a lot of people can relate. Dr. Amelia Kelley (04:14) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, Mm-hmm. Definitely, and I know my aha moment was a big deal to me. It was years ago now. I stumbled upon Dr. Elaine Aaron, who is kind of the pioneer of some of the modern research on high sensitivity on her documentary, Sensitive, the Untold Story. And it was one of those light bulb aha moments that made so much of my life make sense. Interestingly though, when I dug a little deeper, she was not the of the originator of this. It was actually research done in the 80s on babies and their responses to different stimuli. Things like they had... Michelle (04:59) you Mm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (05:17) auditory stimulation with like a creepy face making sound. had light stimulation, physical stimulation. And what they found was that the babies who were more reactive, they were calling high reactive babies, you know, which down the road became high sensitivity. But the really interesting thing is that the researchers went and followed up with these babies who are now in their midlife, you know, they're in their I'd say probably 40s at this point, 30s and 40s. And they're finding that those high reactive babies still are more reactive adults. And so this doesn't mean someone who's highly emotional or can't control their temper when we think of reactivity. It's more, what is your reaction to sensory input? And certain brains, it is genetic. Michelle (06:07) Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:10) So it's a predisposition. It is a genetic trait. It is not a diagnosis. It is not something to fix. It is rather something to learn from and grow with and manage and live life in that way. And so it's highly genetic. And for that reason, I'm not surprised I have kids who are definitely highly sensitive. And high sensitivity can express in so many different ways. It can look like Michelle (06:10) you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (06:39) hypersensitivity to medication, sensitivity to light, to sound, to being rushed to other people's emotions. That's a big part. The empathy piece is very strong. I think it's really important to understand the difference between empathy and compassion when we consider highly sensitive people. you, like when I say that, does that make sense to you? Do you want me to unpack that? Michelle (06:52) Mm-hmm. It does. mean, so what I'm perceiving in that is that empathy is kind of like almost giving more of your own personal energy to something versus just feeling compassion and understanding that another person's emotions or perspectives without almost taking it on. I'm not sure if I'm on or not. Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:08) Mm-hmm. Well, mean, I think that's we can all define it differently, but I guess if I was going to scientifically define compassion and empathy. So empathy is our ability to feel what someone else is feeling. We all tend to know that definition. However, the interesting thing is that empathy has a negative impact on your immune health and it increases inflammation. Right. And so when we consider the fact that highly sensitive people Michelle (07:34) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, that's interesting. Dr. Amelia Kelley (07:56) have more active mirror neurons, which means the areas of their brain designed to plan social interactions, problem solving around social interactions, and even something as simple as, as a highly sensitive person, one of my ways to decompress is to watch like trashy reality TV at night. And so I will find myself as I'm watching these dating shows, smiling with the contestants. Michelle (08:15) Yeah Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:23) or frowning with them. Sometimes I kind of laugh when I catch myself doing it. As a highly sensitive person, those areas of the brain are so much more active. And so it does make us have higher levels of empathy. But when you consider the fact that that can negatively impact your body, if you don't have enough boundaries around them, empathy is pro-social. It helps us get along, but also too much can be draining. Michelle (08:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (08:50) And so compassion is actually kind of the anecdote to empathy because compassion is centered around the desire to act or help. And so this, when we think of self-compassion, the act of speaking to yourself kindly is an act. So you empathize for yourself, I feel bad today because I made a mistake. Just thinking of an example. The compassion is, Michelle (08:50) Right. Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:18) I'm going to choose to speak to myself kindly and with love because that will be curative for me. Whereas if you stay in an empathy response, you just continue to feel bad about whatever mistake you made, right? And so for highly sensitive people, it's exponentially important to lean into compassion and we can't all go out and save the world all the time. So sometimes this looks like well-wishing meditation. Michelle (09:24) Done it. Got it. Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (09:46) processing with other like-minded people, those can be ways to express compassion that doesn't all have to be going out. And I remember, do you remember the movie Free Willy? Michelle (09:58) yeah, but I don't remember if I saw it or I don't remember the actual movie. wait, though. It was the one with the whale, right? Yes. Yeah. Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:06) Right, it was fiction, obviously, but as an HSP or an HSC at the time, a highly sensitive child, when that movie was over, I was destroyed at the thought of all these whales in the world who need help. And so my gracious parents who encouraged my sensitivity helped me find an organization where could adopt a whale. So it's like, and I mean, who knows what's happening. We probably paid $20 and... Michelle (10:29) that's cute. Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:34) I've adopted a whale, who knows, but it was the act of taking my empathy response and putting it into action with compassion that was curative for my little highly sensitive child heart. Michelle (10:34) Yeah. Hmm. That's beautiful. actually really love that. And it also makes you feel like there's more purpose in the feelings that you're having. You're kind of taking the feelings and creating purpose with it. Dr. Amelia Kelley (10:57) Absolutely. That's such a way of putting it. Michelle (11:01) And one thing too, that I was thinking about when you were talking about being highly sensitive, which I could tell you right now, I 100 % am self-diagnosed. The nervous system, I think to myself about the nervous system and possibly that having something to do with it, just having a more heightened sensitive nervous system. Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:09) Mm-hmm Mm-hmm. Michelle (11:22) Besides obviously the antidote and kind of like using or acting or doing, to translate the empathy, but as one part of regulating the nervous system, learning to manage the nervous system, doing things like you said, like when you get home, take a shower, do something that really connects with your nervous system, I feel like is a really great tool. And figuring out what that is, is that something that you often look into? Dr. Amelia Kelley (11:49) Absolutely. Because if you think about just a handful of the questions that I was posing that help you identify if you're highly sensitive, a lot of them have to do with nervous system response. highly sensitives are more responsive to caffeine, drugs and alcohol, pain tolerance, hunger cues even, are more, you know, felt more intensely. So with HSPs, the nervous system, specifically the limbic system is more active. And this is something that can be seen on actual scans of HSP brains. It is. It's wild. so I was having a really interesting conversation with Michael Allison, who is one of the instructors for the Polyvagal Institute. And he was talking about, I don't think if he really fully bought into the HSP thing, I think he sees everything through the Polyvagal world. Michelle (12:20) Mm-hmm. That's so interesting. Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (12:48) And which I totally appreciate. There's different ways to look at our nervous systems. But he said something when we were talking about highly sensitive that really struck a chord to your point about the nervous system. He was saying when our nervous system alerts danger and for him that means the vagal break is off and the vagus nerve is overactive, the heart rate is up, fight flight. When we're not feeling safe. It's usually because we're attending to something we think we need to attend to because it's out of sorts. And so the highly sensitive person, a look on your face could alert danger to me. Like someone seeming off or upset or concerned could signal that. And so for the highly sensitive person, Michelle (13:23) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Amelia Kelley (13:42) They need more time and research has shown up to two hours of unstructured alone time per day is most quote prescribed for highly sensitive. And so the reason being is that our baseline is higher all the time. And so we need more things to regulate the nervous system so that sounds and things and emotions aren't pulling us out of our safety zone so quickly. Michelle (13:49) Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. my God, that makes sense on so many levels. I always felt like I needed, I need alone time. Like after a while, I just need to be by myself. need quiet. I need peace. And I totally understand what you're saying. And then also what's interesting is I remember when I was younger, always being afraid, like if somebody was mad at me or like, I would kind of feel a tone of like, my God, are they mad at me? And I get like really upset. And now I had to like learn to Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:19) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Michelle (14:42) just be like, okay, it's not that big of a deal. Maybe they were having a bad day, you know, sort of speak to myself on that, but that makes sense. And then I noticed that with my daughter, if sometimes I'll be busy and I won't respond with like a, you know, a full response, I'll be like, okay, okay, we'll talk later or whatever. Are you mad at me? And I always tell her, believe me, I would tell you I'm pretty clear about like what I'm happy about and not happy, you know. Dr. Amelia Kelley (14:52) Mmm. Hmm. Right. Michelle (15:07) And, but it's interesting. She'll kind of read between the lines with me. And she's like me, she just took after me. So it's kind of, yeah, so she's 19. Dr. Amelia Kelley (15:12) Mm How old is she, I ask? OK, so she's older. I was going to say, I know a great workbook, but it's for younger kids. yeah, she definitely,...
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EP 316 A Fertility Story of Loss and Hope | Samantha Bonizzi
12/17/2024
EP 316 A Fertility Story of Loss and Hope | Samantha Bonizzi
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Samantha Bonizzi shares her deeply personal journey through pregnancy loss, the challenges of trying to conceive, and the emotional rollercoaster of navigating IVF. She emphasizes the importance of community, support, and mental health resources during such a difficult time. Samantha also discusses her motivation for co-authoring a book that shares stories of fertility loss and hope, aiming to help others feel less alone in their experiences. Samantha highlights the significance of self-care, therapy, and trusting one's intuition throughout the journey to motherhood. About Samantha: Samantha is a writer with a background in public relations and communications. She spent her early career working in PR for lifestyle brands and has since transitioned to a corporate internal communications role at a tech company. She grew up in New Jersey, where she’s lived most of her life (besides a brief stint in New York City), and now resides just outside Montclair with her husband and mini bernedoodle. She loves the area and has written several stories about things to do and places to go for a local lifestyle website, The Montclair Girl. She also loves reading, working out and doing yoga, hiking and being outdoors, and traveling. Samantha has always had a passion for wellness and women’s health, which has taken center stage in her life since experiencing pregnancy loss and fertility challenges. Now, she wants to pay what she's learned forward and is on a mission to help women who find themselves on similar paths. IG: @sam.bonizzi IG: @thelosseswekeep Website: For more information about Michelle, visit: Be sure to check out our Fertility Empowerment Holiday Bundle here before it’s gone! Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Samantha. Samantha Bonizzi (00:02) Thank you so much for having me. Excited to chat with you today. Michelle (00:05) Me too. So excited to chat with you and I've worked with you before and I'm excited to have you on and super excited that you co-authored this book. And I would love for the listeners to hear your journey and really what inspired you to share your story with others. Samantha Bonizzi (00:26) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So just to take a bunch of steps back and kind of share what led me to this point, I guess to start, know, we, my husband and I wanted to start a family. And so like most of our generation, you know, I was on birth control for 12 years and in talking to my doctor about, you know, starting to try. It was as simple as, know, get off birth control, start trying and see what happens. It should happen pretty quickly if you're lucky. So that's exactly what we did. Sure enough, we were pregnant within a few months of trying, which we were, you know, very excited about, of course, and, you know, just thought we were lucky in that it happened to us so quickly. We You know, initially, I've kept the news to ourselves for the first eight or nine weeks. And at that point, things had been going well when we went in for our first initial appointments. You know, we saw the heartbeat. The doctor said everything was looking good. The first big milestone, of course, is that 12, 13 week appointment when you go in for the genetic testing. And, you know, Like I said, up until this point, we at first were being pretty discreet with the news, but we did start to share with close family and friends. We weren't shouting it from the rooftops yet, but we definitely, you know, we were excited. And so we started to tell some of our immediate circle. and so we went in for that appointment, pretty naive. think, we, I had, of course, as a woman, you're familiar with the fact that miscarriages can happen. My mom had even had two miscarriages during her, after she had me before my brother. But it wasn't something that we really talked about. And it wasn't anything even in my immediate circle in terms of friends or close family members, anything that they had gone through. So I was pretty naive going in. I think we went into that appointment. excited to just be in an ultrasound and see the baby. It had been five weeks, I think, since I had been in for an appointment. So we were just, you know, excited to see the baby. And even when the nurse was doing the initial ultrasound, the baby came up on the screen. We were like, we didn't notice anything was wrong. We were just like very excited. And then all of sudden we did notice that the technician went quiet. You know, Michelle (03:07) Mm. Samantha Bonizzi (03:16) she was kind of dynamic with us in the beginning when we first came in and then all of a sudden her her demeanor changed right away. And then at that point she left to go get the doctor. The doctor came in and simply told us that we didn't have a viable pregnancy. And it was it wasn't our doctor because it was like this genetic doctor that was doing this particular scan for us. So luckily our doctor was in Michelle (03:42) Mm-hmm. Samantha Bonizzi (03:45) the same building. So we're able to be like ushered into see the doctor right away and kind of walk through what our next steps would be. But we were just very shocked. We were not expecting that to happen, especially, you know, getting up until that 13 week mark is where we were at. So we kind of felt like and I think also I didn't understand the concept of a missed miscarriage, which is what happened to us. Michelle (03:51) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Samantha Bonizzi (04:14) When I thought of a miscarriage before, assumed it was something that happened where you started to bleed and it happened at home and you know clearly like you are having a miscarriage. So when I went in there and they told me we didn't have a viable pregnancy, I didn't know what that meant, how that happened, why that happened. So it was all very shocking, I would say. So it was at that point, we talked to our doctor, he recommended having a DNC. Michelle (04:23) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Samantha Bonizzi (04:42) which is what we did a few days later and you know, you go into the hospital and that was my first time in that hospital where I thought we would be delivering our baby and then you have to go in there and remove the baby. so that was really, I guess, a surreal moment. and you know, to be frank, like the DNC procedure is pretty quick and painless and you wake up and you're just, the baby's gone. It's not. Michelle (04:53) Wow, yeah. Samantha Bonizzi (05:10) inside of you anymore. And you're just kind of left unsure of what to do next. They don't really provide you with any resources. They just send you on your way. And in talking with my doctor, he was like, you know, we'll follow up with the results. Like that's part of the reason we did the DNC so that they could test the tissue to kind of confirm because they had he had projected it was likely a chromosome issue. But they wanted to make sure of that. So said they would follow up in a few weeks. And in terms of like getting pregnant again, it was really like, you could start trying as soon as you get your next period. It's up to you in terms of when you're emotionally ready. Like, well, how am going to know if I'm emotionally ready? Like, this is such a shock to the system. So, you know, I think at that point I was shook for sure. And like I said, I didn't have anybody in my Michelle (05:54) Yeah. Yeah. Samantha Bonizzi (06:06) immediate circle who had been through anything like that. So I kind of didn't know where to turn. At the same time, I didn't really go out and seek a lot of resources because I felt like, you know, the way the doctor described it, it was something that could happen to anybody. It was a spontaneous thing. You know, it's not an indication of there being a problem with you being able to hold on to a pregnancy. So just try again. And so I think I was just determined, you know, I'm a very, I have a very, I think, know, type a personality where I'm like, okay, let's just like get it done. Let's keep trying. We can do this. And so I was sad, of course, but I was also at the same time, like so determined to just make it work the next time. And so we did really jump into trying again right away. And I think we were pregnant three months later. Michelle (06:44) Hmm. Samantha Bonizzi (07:05) and you know, I think when you deal with a pregnancy after loss, you're robbed of a lot of things. there's no longer like an immediate joy of a positive pregnancy test because it's like quickly followed with fear and anxiety. It's the same thing can happen to you, you know, going, going into an ultrasound is scary because especially if that's where you found out about your miscarriage, there's a sphere that you're going to receive the same news. Michelle (07:29) Bye. Samantha Bonizzi (07:34) And, you know, all those things were definitely building up in my head when we found out we were pregnant. At the same time, I just felt like surely it wouldn't happen to us again. You know, I was sure that we had paid our dues and like this was something that just randomly happened to us the first time and that we would be okay. And even as the doctor, you know, he had flagged a few concerns, things like the fetal heart rate and the size of the sac and those types of things. And he of just had us continue to come back every two weeks to kind of check on those markers. But I still was like, no, this is gonna work. And so when he told us eight weeks that it would again wasn't a viable pregnancy, I think I was even almost more shocked. Michelle (08:13) you Well. Samantha Bonizzi (08:28) than the first time and you would think that, okay, you've been through this, you know how to deal. It wasn't like that because after the second one, it was almost worse because the realization set in that this wasn't just a spontaneous thing that happened to us. Like to have these miscarriages back to back, I felt like, okay, something must be wrong. Either I've done something to deserve this and I'm being punished or something is wrong with us where this isn't working. Michelle (08:32) Right. Samantha Bonizzi (08:55) I think especially being in that short time window too. And when you see everyone around you, like I had all my friends were having babies at that time and it worked for them. Why isn't it working for us? So it was again a shock. I think at that point I told myself we need to slow down. We need to kind of understand if there is an underlying issue we need to kind of reassess before we just jump into trying again. And I don't know if that's, I don't know exactly what led from the first to the second. And if we did try too soon, I'll never know how those answers, but I just felt like we had to slow down and just reassess what was happening. So at that point, I, you know, I started to go to a fertility clinic, started to have all the testing. that they recommend for recurring pregnancy loss. And that took a few months. And through all of that, they said everything seems to be fine. It's likely due to poor egg quality or bad luck that this happened, which is on one hand reassuring because when there's not a glaring issue, you at least know, okay, well, this is, you know, there's not something, you know, glaring that's preventing this from happening. But on the other hand, it's like, if it's bad luck, then why is this happening? And that's actually the title of my chapter is, if nothing is wrong, then how do we fix it? Which is how I felt. You're telling me nothing's wrong, well then what is our path forward? And really it was left unclear. It was, you could do IVF and potentially reduce your risk of miscarriage because you could do things like, Michelle (10:30) Right. Yeah. Samantha Bonizzi (10:46) you know, the genetic testing and everything where you have more of a chance of having a healthy embryo. But that's not a guarantee. Or if you feel more comfortable trying it naturally, you can do that. And so there was this sort of leaning recommendation towards IVF. But then you're like, well, this is a fertility clinic. Do they just want me to do the IVF? Is this really what's best for us? So Michelle (10:53) Right. Right. Samantha Bonizzi (11:11) In hearing all that, you you kind of go through, at least for me, I went through sort of a spiral of guilt around, again, why was this happening? If there isn't a, if there isn't a medical reason, what is the reason, you know, kind of searching for answers in all of it? So you, you know, I definitely went through spirals of why me. And I think what helped at that point was just like hearing other people's stories. And it really took a lot of effort for me to find those people to connect with on the topic who had been through it. Like I said, I didn't have anybody I knew personally who had been through it, at least on a close knit level. So it was like taking to social media and being connected through friends to other women who had been through something similar and who came out on the other side. Michelle (11:50) Hmm. Samantha Bonizzi (12:09) And I think that was what was most helpful. I did support groups as well. And I think that was also helpful in just having those regular touch points with people who are going through the same thing that you're going through and just got it. So I think between those two things, that, that really helps with those negative spirals of emotion that I was feeling. you know, in considering IVF, which was a big decision, Michelle (12:09) Mm-hmm. Samantha Bonizzi (12:38) It was talking to people who had done IVF and really understanding the process from them that sort of gave me the push to give it a shot. think ultimately it came down to just what I thought best in my gut for us, like in talking to my husband about it. And we felt like it was the right call for us. But again, it was a very hard decision. Michelle (12:55) Yeah. Samantha Bonizzi (13:09) I think, yeah, it was tough, but we ultimately decided to go through with the IVF. And I'm very grateful that we did because we were lucky enough where we had a successful retrieval and a successful transfer. And I'm currently nine months pregnant. So that's kind of where I'm at in a nutshell. And what led me to the book, Michelle (13:30) Yeah. Samantha Bonizzi (13:37) I had been connected, the lead author, her name is Jamie Christ. She was somebody I was connected to through my cousin who actually lives in Miami. And when I was in Miami visiting her, my cousin, that's when I wanted to see you and I was going through the fertility treatment. But my cousin connected me with Jamie as one of those women who had been through something similar to what I was going through to kind of talk through different. Michelle (13:47) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Samantha Bonizzi (14:04) aspects of the journey and resources and things of that nature. And so we kind of just kept in touch and then she was looking for authors to join her on this anthology project that she was working on. And I decided at the time I hadn't found out I was pregnant. I didn't even find out I was pregnant yet. I was just about to transfer when I decided to do it. But it was something, you know, during my journey Michelle (14:28) Mm-hmm. Samantha Bonizzi (14:34) I had been journaling a lot and kind of writing about my experience and I always thought, you know, it would be great to share this one day. And so this felt like the right opportunity to do that and to start talking about it and sharing my story. So I joined Jamie and eight other authors, including myself on this book called The Losses We Keep, Our Journey of Fertility, Loss and Neverending Hope. And it's just a compilation of our stories. So we each have a chapter and we share, you know, what we went through and every story is unique and different. So there's really something for everybody who's either going through, going through it or know somebody who's going through it. So it's really beautiful how it all came together and yeah, kind of what led me there. Michelle (15:26) I that's so beautiful that first of all, I think there's something therapeutic about sharing your story and getting your story out there. Plus, that is going to help others And it's kind of interesting when you were talking about your experience with a doctor and it was kind of like you went and then they're like, okay, you know, well, it's good luck next time. And then you're off. with no guidance whatsoever. I hear that story time and time again. I hear it so much that I'm don't they create some kind of like the mental health aspect? Why don't they create some kind of support for people? Because I feel like that's part of the whole process. I feel like it should be part of it. When you're going through a loss like that, and it's often your first loss and you don't know who to talk to and you might not have a community. Some people don't have anybody like at all. So I just don't understand why I feel like it should be protocol for people going through it. And so that's why I love the fact that you actually wrote the story because I feel like when people hear other people's stories, I think the biggest thing and tell me if this is accurate, it's just knowing that you're not alone, that you're not like alone in this experience. Samantha Bonizzi (16:24) Yep. Yeah. It says that's exactly right. And that was a big part of my why too. was partly being therapeutic and kind of being able to get all of this out there and get it on the page and share it. But it was also being able to help other women feel less alone because that was something I so needed when I was going through it was to have that sense of community or just. hearing people who had been through the journey and who ended up on the other side. And that's a lot of what Jamie talks about too and why she started this project was because when she was going through it, like, yes, there were resources that you can find in books and things, but at times could feel sort of negative. And she just needed the optimism. And this is really, you know, it's meant to be a beacon of hope for women who are going through it. Yeah. Michelle (17:25) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. It's just, it's something that is so needed. because I think when you're going through that, you really don't have any guarantee. you just don't know how tomorrow is going to be and like how it's going to work out. And it's always kind of like having faith. Okay, well, you know, my past has been disappointment and loss and hurt and pain. And so is my future going to look like that too? Samantha Bonizzi (17:46) Yeah. Michelle (17:58) And then what I also thought was really interesting, and I think it's great that you bring up is that when you talked about IVF and you considered it and all the different thoughts that you have, all these things that you think in the back of your head, like, well, are they trying to sell this on me? These are those little thoughts that we all...
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EP 315 What to Focus on if You’re Trying to Conceive After 40 | Dr. Marc Sklar
12/10/2024
EP 315 What to Focus on if You’re Trying to Conceive After 40 | Dr. Marc Sklar
In this episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I sit down with Dr. Marc Sklar to delve into evolving perspectives on fertility, especially for women over 40. We discuss the need to shift our focus from quantity to quality in fertility treatments, and the empowering impact this has on women navigating their fertility journeys. We cover the realities of IVF, the importance of patience, self-advocacy, and creating space for personal growth and healing. Marc and I also explore complex factors such as genetics, autoimmune issues, and male-related factors in recurrent pregnancy loss. This conversation is full of valuable insights for anyone on their fertility journey, promoting a holistic approach to healing and growth. Takeaways A shift in mindset is crucial for couples seeking fertility care after 40. Quality of eggs and embryos becomes more important than quantity as women age. Understanding hormones is important, but shouldn't be the sole focus. Regular ovulation is a key indicator of fertility, regardless of age. Real-life success stories provide hope and perspective for those trying to conceive. Patients should feel empowered to advocate for themselves in medical settings. IVF is not a guaranteed solution and should not be the first option considered. Donor eggs can be a valuable option, but should not be the first recommendation based solely on age. The energetics of fertility are crucial for healing. Recurrent pregnancy loss can stem from various factors, including genetics and autoimmune issues. Male factors contribute to 50% of miscarriages, often overlooked. The importance of the uterine environment in fertility cannot be ignored. Quick fixes are a societal conditioning that impacts health decisions. Understanding the microbiome can enhance fertility treatments. Emotional states can significantly affect physical health and fertility. Be sure to check out our Fertility Empowerment Holiday Bundle here before it’s gone! Guest Bio: Dr. Marc Sklar — a.k.a The Fertility Expert — is a natural fertility specialist helping couples get pregnant for 21 years. He’s mission is to help you feel HOPEFUL and CONFIDENT about your fertility journey again. In addition to his Doctor of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, Dr. Sklar trained at the Harvard Medical School, Mind/Body Medical Institute. He is the creator of Fertility TV, MarcSklar.com and ReproductiveWellness.com, and a Fellow of the American Board of Oriental Reproductive Medicine and Medical Advisor for Symphony Natural Health. As well as his online program, he also supports his community via his highly popular YouTube channel: FertilityTV where he shares information packed videos to educate his followers on all things fertility. The Fertility Expert lives in San Diego, with his wife and two sons, where he has his clinic Reproductive Wellness. He also works with couples all over the world through his fertility online coaching - the Hope Fertility Program. FERTILITY TV WEEKLY EPISODE - FACEBOOK - INSTAGRAM - For more information about Michelle, visit: Be sure to check out our Fertility Empowerment Holiday Bundle here before it’s gone! Click here to get free access to the first chapter in The Way of Fertility Book! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome back to the podcast, Dr. Scalari. Marc Sklar (00:03) Welcome, well, thank you for having me. It's automatic. But no, it's awesome to reconnect. It's been a while and I'm excited to have a conversation that we both are passionate about, which is everything fertility. Michelle (00:07) I know it's automatic. Yes. For sure. We're like, you could say we're a little obsessed, right? With fertility. It's like, live it, we breathe it, So awesome. actually today we're going to talk about a couple of different topics, but I wanted to talk to you about pregnancy after 40. Cause I know that a lot of what we hear out there, even about, Marc Sklar (00:25) 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Michelle (00:46) how even after 35, it's considered a geriatric pregnancy, which I don't know about you. just don't love that term at all. It's icky. yeah, because I'm sure you see most people like closer to the age of 40 and doing really well. So I'd love for you to talk about it, your experience with that, and also some really cool examples of how it can work despite all of the naysayers. Marc Sklar (00:55) Yeah, not a fan of it. Mm-hmm Yeah, so I think, I so many things I want to talk about when you say this that I need to prioritize it in a good way. here's a couple of things that I think are really important. One is, I think our perspective about fertility, and when I say our, not ours as practitioners and doctors and providers, but more like ours as in like, the couple who is seeking care during this time and wanting to get pregnant in their 40s, I think a mind shift has to happen. And I think that they need to think about their fertility in a slightly different way. If we are thinking about our fertility and reading everything that is really focused on couples that are 30 or 35 or whatever age in their 30s, then we're going to be skewed differently about our own fertility and our approach needs to be different. And so I say that in the sense that, you know, we have to have a different reality of what is okay and what we're trying to achieve. A woman who's in her 30s is trying to get as many eggs as possible. Michelle (02:43) Mm-hmm. Marc Sklar (02:43) So they have as many options when they have their embryos created and they are, you know, it's usually more about in general and this is a making a generalization, but it's more about quantity versus quality. We're like, let's have as many as we have so that we can choose the best quality of those and then we can move forward, you know, with our pregnancy. And... the approach may or may not be in those situations about egg quality, because there might be other variables that are impacting their ability to conceive. Whereas I think when we are 40 and older, my approach really shifts. I don't care about quantity. I'm really, really focused on quality. And I think that mindset has to be different as a couple. because then we were not as disappointed like, I didn't get that many follicles and they didn't retrieve as many eggs as I would have hoped. But because that's all we hear about. We hear about, look, we need all these eggs, we need all these embryos. But the reality is, is when we get older, I don't need 20 eggs or 20 embryos, I need a couple good ones. That's really what I'm looking for is a couple good embryos. to work with and to transfer. So I think really a mind shift needs to happen and our perspective on fertility needs to change. And so for reading and understanding things as if we were 30 versus 40 or older, then we're gonna have, I believe, skewed perspective on our fertility journey. So that to me is number one. Number two is we do all get caught up in our hormones and some of that is appropriate and some of that is not appropriate. Is it appropriate to understand where our hormones are at when we're at any age? 100%. Is it important to understand what our estrogen is doing and what our progesterone and FSH are doing? Absolutely. Is it important to know what our AMH is? Yes. Should we get caught up in AMH and make our whole focus about AMH? No. The research doesn't promote, doesn't support these variables. Even FSH, AMH are not good indicators for a couple's ability to conceive and have a healthy pregnancy. Are they important for us to just have a baseline and understand? Yes. Will they potentially or can they potentially influence your IVF protocol? Yes. But that doesn't mean we as couples need to get wrapped up in those numbers and make our fertility all about that because it shouldn't be. My rule of thumb is are you having a regular cycle? Check. Are you ovulating regularly? Check. Is your bleed healthy? Check. You can conceive. Michelle (05:40) Mm-hmm. Marc Sklar (06:00) Do we have to look at these other variables? Do we need to check your thyroid? Do we need to work on your adrenal glands and stress? Do we need to make sure your gut is healthy? Do we need to make sure all the systems are functioning properly? Seem analysis is good. Fallopian tubes are open. All of those things are still important. But the main thing that as long as you're ovulating, you can get. And I think that's a really important piece. Now, we're not talking about IVF or not IVF right now. It's just like conception at 40, right? And or older. And so I think if we just focus on the right things and don't get bogged down by these little details of someone who might approach things a little differently if they were 30, then our approach will be better. It will be healthier. Michelle (06:37) Mm-hmm. Marc Sklar (06:57) you'll be more grounded in your approach. And we could focus on the areas that really need attention and support. And so I think that piece is really important as we are in our 40s, approaching fertility, still wanting to conceive. If we're always comparing ourselves to other women and other circumstances, we're gonna lose sight of what we need to do and always be trying to like catch up or do what they're doing. And I think that is... That can really push us down the wrong road. I say this because truly I work with so many women who are over 40. And I see this time and time again. So it's coming from a lot of experience working with women over 40. And I have a wonderful story to share of a woman who is, and everyone will gasp when they hear, okay, when she conceived she was 48. Michelle (07:55) That's awesome. I love that. Marc Sklar (07:55) She is, I just spoke to her two days ago. When she delivers, she will be 49. Okay? And I'm not saying she didn't have a long journey. Michelle (08:08) Was this natural or was it IVF? Marc Sklar (08:11) This time was natural, but I'm not saying she didn't have a long journey. She did. I'm not saying it was easy. It was not. It was a long journey. It was difficult. Miscarriages, conceiving naturally, conceiving through IVF, long IVF protocols, multiple clinics, like all these things. So it wasn't easy. It was long, but she's 32 weeks pregnant right now. Michelle (08:40) Wow, amazing. Marc Sklar (08:41) And I say that because it's possible. It can happen. And these are the sorts of things we see on a regular basis. I'm not saying it's easy at 48, not at all. But I say that for some perspective on the process. Okay. And I think that, you know, do I think everyone could last for seven plus years trying? No, I don't think that's for everybody. She was never going to give up. Michelle (08:51) Mm-hmm. Marc Sklar (09:11) Like regardless, like she was never going to stop and never give up until she was pregnant. And that's what she told me. She's like, I'm not going to stop and I'm determined. I was like, okay, I'll support you. Right. That, that, that process is not for everybody. Some people will be on it for a year or just have one or two IVF transfers. And they're like, this is too much. I'm done. I'm going to move on. And I respect everybody's path in that process, but Michelle (09:21) Wow, amazing. Yeah. Right. Marc Sklar (09:39) I want everyone to know it's possible and that's why I share that story. I think it's possible regardless of age with the right support and the right process and the right focus of our attention. Michelle (09:51) I love that. I really do. And I love the stories because I think that there's so many people that can benefit and you have that sign hope in the background. And it's true. Like those are, but stories, real life stories, there's nothing like real life stories to provide real hope. Cause you can hear, you know, there's a chance of this or a chance of that. But when you actually see an example of somebody going through those challenges that you are and having a successful pregnancy, Marc Sklar (10:00) Yeah. Michelle (10:21) I think that there's nothing that compares to that. Marc Sklar (10:24) Yeah, absolutely. And I love to bring in stories wherever possible. And she was just at top of mind because I just booked her two days ago. So yeah. Michelle (10:33) That's awesome. You know what I find really cool is the Guinness Book of World Records, the oldest pregnancy is 58 and it was natural. And it was a woman in England who, you know, in England, they don't have a lot of sunlight and, know, and vitamin D access naturally. So I thought that was really cool. But it's, it could be done. It's possible. Just like you said, and I love that you said Marc Sklar (10:45) Wow. No. Michelle (10:58) as long as you're ovulating, there is a possibility that you can get pregnant. Marc Sklar (11:02) Yeah, yeah, we see this, we do see this all the time. Look, as soon as you hit 35 and 38 and certainly 40 and older, you're going to read things and hear things that say, you can't, it's not possible, you won't, you need donor, you need IVF, whatever it is that you're gonna hear, you're gonna hear it all. I think the hardest time is when you hear it from the person on the other side of the desk in a white coat that says to you, your only option is donor, just give up. And we all hear variations of those words, whether it's not possible, just use donor, whatever variation of that, of what I just said, when you go into an office, whether that's your OB, Michelle (11:46) True. Marc Sklar (12:01) or your REI or whoever it might be, and you're sitting down talking to them and they see your age, they assume certain things and they make certain judgments. And they express those verbally to you. And you hear that and that registers in your brain that embeds into your brain. And you start to believe it. Well, yeah, right. Michelle (12:22) It's nocebo. True. Marc Sklar (12:28) I've never heard it, say it. really like that phrase. Yeah. Michelle (12:31) You're never going to be able to get it out of your head now. Every time a woman comes in and tells you the story. Marc Sklar (12:36) Yeah. And so look, they said this to you, it and our our brains are really strong and we imprint with these negative things very easily. It's much harder to imprint with all the positive, it takes more effort. And so it imprints into our brain. And now we start to believe it. Well, Dr. So and so said, it's not possible, I'm not going to do it, I can't. And then we repeat that to ourselves so often that Michelle (12:49) Right. It's true. Marc Sklar (13:05) Now our body and our brains believe that to be true. so if someone says something negative to you, you have to work double or triple as hard on yourself to get that out. And you need to express to them, I didn't come here to hear negativity. I didn't come here for you to tell me that I can't. I'm determined to get pregnant. Michelle (13:09) 100%. Marc Sklar (13:33) And it's fine if you're not able or willing to help me, I'll go someplace else, but I don't need you to tell me that I can't do it, because I know that I can. And you have to do it in that moment. You have to say that in that moment to them, because what you're saying to them is repeating it back to yourself to retrain yourself and get rid very quickly, get rid of that negative comment so it doesn't embed into your brain, into your conscious. Michelle (13:52) Yeah. Marc Sklar (14:00) But it also allows them, they need to be woken up. One, they need to be told this is not okay. And two, you have to have the power and the strength to verbalize that truth to them. Okay. You might not be getting pregnant in the conventional way that you thought or they thought. You might not get pregnant in the way that they would like you to. It doesn't mean that you cannot get pregnant. It means that it might take longer. It might be a different path. It might be... whatever. And so I think it's really important in those moments to stand up for yourself and verbalize that and let them know they might not like it. It's okay. Yeah, you didn't like what they said to you. So it's fine. Michelle (14:41) Yeah, exactly. Totally, totally. And that's like really taking your power back regardless, ultimately it's your journey. You're not there to make the doctor feel better. Marc Sklar (14:53) Right, listen, I think that's such an important piece. Unlike most other medical visits and specialties, you are a consumer buying their service. Just because they're wearing a white coat and they have MD after their name does not mean that they get the say in everything. It's your journey, it's your process. You're paying them a lot of money for their service. And even if you have insurance coverage, by the way, it's still insurance coverage that can go someplace else to pay for somebody else. So it doesn't have to go to them. And so... You have the power, like they make it feel like they have the power and they control the situation. I want you to know you have the power. You control the situation and your outcome. It's your dollars that you're spending. You are and should be an equal participant in this process with them. And they don't have to dictate everything. Now, I'm not saying, you you're telling them the protocols to use all the time, but It needs to be a joint effort in this process. It's totally different than going into a different medical environment and a different provider for different services. They're not charging you $20,000, those other people, for a service that's elective. So stand up for yourself. Have that empowerment to do so. Michelle (16:34) Yeah. Right. Yeah. And another point that I want to make is, you know, when you're working with a doctor, it doesn't matter how qualified, like, I feel like they should believe in your outcome. If they're doubting your outcome, find another person. Marc Sklar (16:57) Yeah, right now, 100%, 100%. Look, I am not opposed to donor egg. I think that donor egg is something that is super valuable and has its place. What I don't like is that just because of your age, someone is telling you, need to use donor egg. What they're really saying, And there is certainly a place for donor egg. have lots of women that I work with that use donor egg very successfully and I'm a big proponent of it. But what, why they are telling you just based on your age to use donor egg is because their success rates are impacted by your age and the challenge, the potential challenge of getting pregnant at your age. Michelle (17:51) Right. Marc Sklar (17:55) And so for them and their success rates, they have higher chances with using donor egg and they would just prefer, it's an easier process, they would prefer that you use donor egg for that purpose. Okay, now again, does it mean that it's not the right decision for some? It just means that I think if they're just making that decision based on age, I think there's a lot of other pieces that need to be looked at before that decision is made. Michelle (18:24) What you just said is so important because it's the reality. Really...
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EP 314 Does This Innovative Treatment Offer Hope for Fertility? | Dr. Jeff Gross
12/03/2024
EP 314 Does This Innovative Treatment Offer Hope for Fertility? | Dr. Jeff Gross
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I speak to Dr. Jeff Gross, a top Neurosurgeon who has a background specializing in athletic injuries and spine procedures. Dr. Jeff shares his journey from spinal neurosurgery to the forefront of regenerative medicine, focusing on the transformative potential of stem cells and exosomes. He explains the science behind stem cells, their applications in treating joint degeneration, and their role in anti-aging and fertility. Dr. Jeff also discusses the regulatory landscape, the cost of treatments, and the exciting future of stem cell research, including innovative approaches to enhance mitochondrial function which has a lot of promise when it comes to egg and sperm health. Takeaways Stem cells can be used to treat various conditions, including inflammation. Accumulation of inflammation is a key factor in aging and conception challenges. Exosomes may play a significant role in the benefits of stem cell therapy. Regenerative medicine is evolving rapidly, with new research emerging. The cost of stem cell treatments can vary but is becoming more accessible. Stem cells are sourced from well-regulated donor programs in the US. Direct injection of stem cells may yield higher doses than IV administration. Future research may explore the use of exosomes in fertility treatments. Dr. Jeff emphasizes the importance of personalized treatment plans. Guest Bio: Dr. Jeffrey Gross graduated from the University of California, Berkeley with a degree in biochemistry and molecular cell biology. He earned his Doctor of Medicine in 1992 from the George Washington University School of Medicine. He contributed to virology research during his studies. After graduating, he undertook a residency in neurological surgery at the University of California, Irvine Medical Center until 1997. He then pursued a Fellowship and Chief Residency in Spinal Biomechanics at the University of New Mexico until 1999. Licensed in California and Nevada, Dr. Gross has SPINE practices in Orange County and Henderson, Nevada. A trained neurological surgeon, he specializes in athletic injuries and spine procedures, and offers longevity and biohacking consultations. He achieved board certification by the American Board of Neurological Surgery and is a member of several prestigious medical societies. He has written textbooks and articles in his area of expertise and is a peer-reviewer for the state of California and a scientific journal. Since 2020, Top Doctor recognized Dr. Gross as a leading Neurological Surgeon. He also received HealthTap’s 2022 Top Doctor Award as a top Neurological Surgeon in the U.S. Dr. Gross founded ReCELLebrate, focusing on anti-aging and regenerative medicine. The mission for ReCELLebrate emphasizes offering modern biochemical treatments and considering surgery as a last resort. Websites: For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Jeff. Dr. Jeff (00:03) Thank you so much for having me. Nice to see you. Michelle (00:06) Nice to see you as well. So you definitely have a very long, impressive background. So I'd love for you to share your story on how you got to really to the anti-aging stem cells work that you do, So I'd love to just get a quick background so the listeners can hear. Dr. Jeff (00:26) Sure, thank you for that. It was by accident of sorts, maybe directed accident because I was practicing as a spinal neurosurgeon, taking care mainly of neck and back trouble, some other neurological issues, nerve problems, things like that. But my practice was highly consultative, a lot of opinions, second opinions. I was seeing patients who had neck and back problems that were perhaps... mistreated or not fully treated elsewhere. And I was kind of, I was kind of a catchall for that. But my patients came to me one at a time. And these are patients that had tried different things and they just didn't work adequately. Like physical therapy, like anti-inflammatories, like rest, like, you know, chiropractic, acupuncture, maybe spinal epidural injections or things like that. And they'd come in and say, well, you know, help for a minute, but just wasn't enough. I'm still having a lot of trouble with my neck or back or pinch nerve or whatever. And I say, well, the next thing on the menu is to talk about surgical options. And they'd say, well, I'm not that bad. So wait a minute. Okay, good. Cause I was hoping you would say you're not ready for that. Cause I really didn't want to offer that to you. Cause I've always been on the slow to operate side of things. So, a lot of them would say, well, how about lasers or how about. Michelle (01:37) Mm-hmm, yeah. Dr. Jeff (01:52) herbs or how about cannabis or how about stem cells? And I heard the stem cell one more than once and chance favors the prepared mind. So my undergraduate background is in molecular cell biology, which is kind of the stem cell, know, root of stem cell biology. And, you know, when you get whisked off from undergraduate to med school and residency and practice, you don't really get to apply that cool science. So the nerd part of me took over and said, I wonder what's happened in all these years since I went to undergraduate, you know? So instead of going to the Stodgy Neurosurgeon Convention every year, or more than one, where the same people pat themselves on the back for saying the same things for decades, I decided I'm going to open my mind and start going to stem cell and regenerative medicine meetings. Michelle (02:46) Mm-hmm. Dr. Jeff (02:46) So I can offer this to my spine patients. So I did that and I not only brought back a new tool to offer them, but it blossomed into so much more. You can't get access to regenerative medicine, stem cell medicine, and I'm using those phrases sort of interchangeably here, and not say, I'll help your knee or your ankle or your shoulder or your... autoimmune issues or other hyper inflamed states. Or, you you read more and you see accumulation of inflammation is really the aging process. And if you can fight against inflammation accumulating, you're fighting against aging. So the whole anti-aging umbrella opened up and here I am, you know, six years later where spinal medicine is only a small percentage of my practice and I love it. Michelle (03:33) Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's great. So, so for people listening, some people might be like, okay, I kind of heard about stem cells, but what exactly are they? So just for people listening for the first time, we're really not understanding that aspect of like what they are. Cause we hear about it a lot. And over the years, like you said, stem cell research has really drastically changed and has gone into so many different things. Sometimes we hear about like Dr. Jeff (03:45) So. Yeah. Michelle (04:12) you know, back in the day about them growing a liver, like, you know, the possibility of growing organs through stem cells. for people who are really new to this, I would love for you to break it down. Dr. Jeff (04:15) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. sure, let's do stem cell 101. That's great. and being a fertility podcast, this is relevant probably more than any other area of medicine because fertility and creating an embryo is, you know, creating a group of stem cells that divide and grow into a fetus who's made of all stem cells, right? And then, Michelle (04:28) Hahaha Right. Dr. Jeff (04:54) then that fetus is born and it's a baby and the baby grows for 18, 20, 25 years, whatever. And that growth requires stem cells. And then after that, an adult has to maintain, has to replace, has to restore, has to regenerate and that requires stem cells. So what are these? They are cells from which other cells arise, from which other cells stem from. Okay? So, and they are... Michelle (05:20) Mm. Dr. Jeff (05:24) They are powerful because there are different types, right? We throw out the phrase stem cells, but when you're a one cell or a two cell or a four cell embryo, you have these omnipotent cells. They can form any part of your body. They are amazingly powerful. As those divide and differentiate, meaning take on some specific characteristics, they become less powerful and more directed, and those are called pluripotent. And a pluripotent might be able to regrow a limb. And as you, as you, and many of your listeners probably know, there are certain species that can still do that. Like a starfish, you cut off a leg of a starfish, it can regrow it. Or a tail of a lizard or a limb of an axolotl, which is a strain iguana like creature from Mexico. So there are many examples in biology where these pluripotent stem cells can be called upon. And you mentioned maybe regrowing a liver someday. that will probably require some knowledge of pluripotent stem cells, which are being looked at. However, after these stem cells sort of retain, we bank them in our body as adults, those are called multipotent. So they can't regrow a limb, they can't regrow an organ per se, although they can replace some organ cells and regenerate. And you were always replacing cells, we're replacing skin cells and you know, hair follicles and all kinds of things that require stem cells. If you have an injury and you cut yourself, you, require stem cells to help come repair that. and you know, we make new blood cells all the time that requires stem cells in our bone marrow. So we are using our stem cells. This is not new. We just know more about it now. And the whole move in regenerative medicine is, is to take Michelle (07:03) Mm. Dr. Jeff (07:19) a lesson from that biology and use it strategically to help somebody do something they need. Michelle (07:27) So interesting. So give us a couple of examples on how it works in the body. Like for somebody who needs it, for example, whereas like a therapy. Dr. Jeff (07:34) Well, the- Right. So the low hanging fruit as an example, are joint degeneration. Also called arthritis or osteoarthritis vaguely, or some people it's called bone on bone if it's bad enough. Right. And these are your painful joints. It could be from an old injury, an old arthroscopic surgery. It could be from just, you know, accumulated wear and tear. And this is a problem with the joints where the cartilage is, you know, down and the joint is painful. You can't use it as well stiffness, et cetera. And it slows people down. And when you slow people down, particularly in their older years, they're less mobile and then they can't maintain their bones, their bone density, AKA, you know, the one way to fight osteoporosis is weight bearing exercise. So if you can't, if your joints hurt, you're not going to do it. And muscle mass, cause both bone density and muscle mass are correlated with longevity. So if you keep moving. You maintain your muscles and bones, you'll live longer statistically. So in any event, we want to preserve joints. And that's kind of why I got into this field. I'm a structural guy of the spine and it easily extrapolates to the other joints. And most of the research, the well-published research comes from knees and other joints. And just parenthetically, most of the good published research that we follow, because we're not just shooting from the hip here. We do shoot some hips, but it comes from Asia and Europe. The United States is behind, although we can do these things. And, you know, we can talk about that later, but the short of it is we have a really good track record of helping people with degenerated joints in reducing pain and improving function. And we do have some examples with where we've done some MRIs. Michelle (09:09) Ha ha ha! Dr. Jeff (09:37) before and after and the after MRIs have shown some regrowth of like knee cartilage, for example, and things like that. you know, we're not allowed to make any claims because we're not yet approved for marketing claims, but I can show examples and I have to say like you invest in stocks, know, past performance does not guarantee future results or something like that, but in medicine, never, yeah, yeah. Michelle (10:01) Right, and each person is different and unique. Yeah. Dr. Jeff (10:05) But anyway, it's better, listen, if you want to try to avoid a joint replacement surgery, it's worth looking into. So whether it's spine or joints, so that's the easy stuff. Low hanging fruit, I call it. The other stuff is anything with an inflammatory problem in your body can potentially have benefits from regenerative medicine on its face being a natural anti-inflammatory. So for example, autoimmune problems with hyperinflammation. You know, like rheumatoid arthritis, thyroiditis, inflammatory bowel syndromes, MS, things that have an inflammatory component. Also, most diseases of aging are diseases of inflammation. So coronary artery disease, Alzheimer's, things like this, all have an inflammatory component. And this allows me to overlap into your area is there are some causes of fertility. issues that have an inflammatory component, whether it's a uterine issue or ovarian failure. And sometimes fighting that inflammation, whether it's through lifestyle changes, diet, exercise, mindfulness, sleep, reducing mental stress, all those things can help reduce the inflammation and help potentially lead to successful pregnancy. The same can go for use of regenerative biologics like stem cells, and they're not the only thing we use. And there are wonderful publications. And before we got on this, I refreshed my knowledge by doing a little homework. And there are even newer publications on use of these things to improve fertility. Now, most of these are from China because they are way ahead of us. But that doesn't mean they can't be applied here outside of China. Michelle (12:01) Interesting. So interesting. So how do they get these stem cells? Dr. Jeff (12:07) So stem cells and other related biologic material in the US comes from a well-regulated donor program. Typically the donors are women who are planning to have a C-section. Some of the labs even recruit the donors in the first trimester, make sure they're having a healthy pregnancy, they're not using substances they shouldn't be using, they take their prenatal vitamins, they're not in any high-risk behaviors. And at the time of the C-section, they simply, and once the mother is congratulated with her new baby, they take the amniotic fluid, they take the umbilical cord, they take the placenta and they put them on ice in a sterile fashion and they go to an FDA compliant certified lab that can test and screen the materials, make sure there's nothing in there, no diseases, no problems, and then make it available to clinics and end users like myself. So there are myths that all kinds of crazy stuff are happening out there, but not here in the US. We use highly regulated donor processes. Michelle (13:19) When you have the stem cells from donors, can they be multiplied or is it just like a finite amount? Whatever is there is there. Dr. Jeff (13:28) They can be, there are labs that put them in culture, would let them grow and divide and that's one thing that can be done. Now, just like anything, a copy of a copy of a copy tends to lose its vitality. So, things like telomere length, which is an aging marker, that changes with each division of a cell. So I don't like to use a divided material. Michelle (13:50) Mm-hmm. Dr. Jeff (13:58) I use just fresh first pass stuff. Maybe your listeners are a little young for this, but there's a really funny movie called Multiplicity, where Michael Keaton clones himself, and each clone is a little bit wonkier than the original. if you want a good laugh, yeah, check out that movie. But in short, I prefer the actual native original self. Michelle (14:15) Comedy used to be so much better. Right. Got it. Is this similar to cord blood, you know, when they, when the baby's born and they say, do you, you know, you can opt to do that and then store Dr. Jeff (14:27) When we do self, Yeah, let's tap into that for just a second and unpack it if it's okay. know, historically you would be offered to donate or not donate, but store your umbilical cord. And the purpose of that was, God forbid your child gets leukemia in seven years, you have a matched set of cells that they culture, they do divide. Michelle (15:01) Mm-hmm. Right. Dr. Jeff (15:02) and replace the child's bone marrow, you don't have to worry about a donor or a match. Now you can do that and you can also use, in some labs we'll use those umbilical cord cells as a source for any other future purpose, whether it's a joint problem or what have you, they're now doing that. In fact, you can use that for family members as well. So the reasons for a bank in your umbilical cord, and they probably won't tell you in the pamphlet, because it's not yet approved for marketing claims. Michelle (15:19) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Jeff (15:31) is much more than just, you know, just in case there's a case of leukemia, you need a full bone marrow replacement. Michelle (15:39) So interesting. how, when you do have the stem cells, first of all, it must cost a fortune, it sounds like, it's limited. It's not something that you, because you're depending on donors. Dr. Jeff (15:52) No, well, there's a little bit more to it. And that, and I keep using the phrase stem cells and other biologics. Let's, let's talk about other biologics for a minute because some of these other biologics are less expensive and here in the U S it's, it's affordable. You don't have to necessarily leave the country and go to go to central America or, you know, Hong Kong to get this or Europe. A lot of the professional athletes historically went to Europe, but they're, they're getting it here, here in the U S too. Michelle (15:59) Okay. Mm-hmm. that's good. Dr. Jeff (16:22) But we found out that if we gave you stem cells, let's say you came over and I hooked up an IV and we gave you stem cells, in 10 to 14 days, those would be out of your system. However, the benefits would go on for weeks or months or even some of the benefits would be prolonged. So why is that? If the stem cells are gone, what's going on? Well, it turns out the stem cells aren't really doing all the work. The stem cells are delivering cell to cell communicating and influential Michelle (16:31) Mm-hmm. Dr. Jeff (16:52) biomolecules, peptides, growth factors, small RNAs from cell, from the stem cells to your cells, reinvigorating and activating your cells to do that work. And those, those communication packets are called extracellular vesicles or for short exosomes. And you may have seen this, a lot of estheticians use them. You know, they can do the atom to your microneedle facial. Michelle (17:11) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Dr. Jeff (17:20) It's sort of an advanced vampire facial with these exosomes. So the exosomes are probably doing most of the work that the stem cells were doing. And there are advantages. They penetrate tissue better. They're easier to store and handle. They'll cross the blood...
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EP 313 Is Your Immune System Getting in the Way of Conceiving Your Baby? Caryn Johnson
11/26/2024
EP 313 Is Your Immune System Getting in the Way of Conceiving Your Baby? Caryn Johnson
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Caryn Johnson of @_bondlife shares her personal journey through infertility, detailing her struggles with unexplained infertility and the eventual discovery of autoimmune issues affecting her reproductive health. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the immune system's role in fertility and the impact of lifestyle factors such as diet, stress, and environmental toxins. Caryn advocates for women to take charge of their health by educating themselves and seeking out supportive healthcare practitioners. She also discusses her supplement line, Bond, which aims to address these issues holistically. Takeaways Caryn's journey began with unexplained infertility. She experienced multiple failed IVF attempts. The immune system plays a crucial role in fertility. Many women with unexplained infertility have underlying immune issues. Stress and lifestyle factors significantly impact reproductive health. Gut health is linked to fertility and autoimmune conditions. Caryn's research led her to create a supplement line, Bond. Advocacy and education are essential for women facing infertility. Environmental toxins can affect fertility outcomes. Women should empower themselves with knowledge about their health. Guest Bio: Caryn Johnson is the Co-Founder and CEO of BOND, an innovative line of supplements reimagining hormone and reproductive health, inspired by her experience with infertility. The former Vital Proteins Chief Marketing Officer launched BOND in the Fall of 2023, fusing her professional expertise with her passion to help women take a more proactive and empowered approach to caring for their cycle and reproductive health. In 2017, when trying to start a family, Caryn learned she was autoimmune infertile. What she discovered was a stark reality - the lack of open conversations and support for women facing similar struggles. The doctor's office often left much unsaid, and the information available was surprisingly scarce. Shocked by the limited support system in place, Caryn recognized the need for a change. She leaned on her industry knowledge and contacts to advocate for herself and uncover invaluable resources. Her personal journey became a catalyst for a larger mission to make her learnings accessible to women everywhere. It was this experience that led her to create BOND. A natural born innovator, Caryn is disrupting the marketplace with this new line of products that offers women the opportunity to take control of their reproductive health before it’s too late. BOND’s proprietary formulations, designed to preserve fertility potential and lay the foundation for a healthier body, feature science-backed ingredients that work together to balance hormones, protect egg health, and provide cycle support. With BOND, Caryn aims to address women’s health more holistically and encourage a more proactive conversation around reproductive wellness. Caryn’s career began in marketing and public relations where she worked with many notable beauty brands and PR firms before being recruited as the fifth employee at then startup, Vital Proteins. She was the first marketing hire at the organization and ultimately, became the company’s Chief Marketing Officer leading the team through the brand’s acquisition by Nestle Health Sciences. Following her tenure at Vital Proteins, Caryn took on the challenge of leading Owlet, a baby monitor company focused on preventing SIDS, where she served as Chief Marketing Officer and successfully guided the company through its initial public offering. Caryn lives in Chicago with her husband and two children Elijah and Ruthie. You can use coupon code THEWHOLESOME for 20% off all products. For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Check out Michelle’s Latest Book: The Way of Fertility! Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Karin. Caryn Johnson (00:02) Thank you. Thank you for having me. Michelle (00:05) It's so nice to meet you. And I know that you do a lot of amazing work helping women I also know that you have your own story that you can share. And I would love to hear your story and really what got you inspired to do the work that you're doing. Caryn Johnson (00:21) Yeah, absolutely. So I'm here to share really the start of how I got to where I am today. And that really is rooted in finding out that I couldn't get pregnant. So we can start there and then we can get into all of the details together. But my husband and I met when I was young, early 20s. And by the time we got married many years later, we were already most right away to start having a family. There was a piece of me inside that knew that I was gonna have some sort of issue. I don't know, you already mentioned that you do visualizations to me before we started. So, you know, like I just had this feeling whether I manifested it for myself or not. I, you know, we did the full year of trying to get pregnant to no success and then went back to our doctor. Michelle (01:03) Yeah, yeah. Caryn Johnson (01:18) my typical OB-GYN and started the path of IUIs, did four IUIs, had beautiful eggs, each IUI, and reacted to the medicine quite well, but never got a positive from any of those. So we were recommended to move towards IVF. found a reproductive endocrinologist in Chicago, which is where I was located at the time. started the path to IVF and went through the process of an egg retrieval. Ended up seeing similar to what we saw in the IUIs, which was that my reproductive system performed quite well. And I was able, they were able to retrieve just about 30 eggs from one retrieval, which is quite high, borderline too high, but. just shows like the reaction to the medicine and the overall viability of my reproductive system. Of that, I had really normal odds and was able to bank close to 14, I believe, quality grade embryos. So I was really excited to move into implantation because at that point, I just really thought like whatever was unexplained is just kind of, you know, over to the side now. you know, all these things are just working out in my favor. So this is gonna be, you know, it for me, which a lot of women I feel like go into IVF feeling like the IVF center is like the place where you get your baby, which isn't always true. So. I started doing implantations and I started losing babies. Prior to that point, I had never even tested positive in any sort of like regard for a pregnancy test. And I wasn't one of those that, you know, jumped right off birth control, you know, to move into conception. I hadn't been on birth control for many, many, many, many years, you know, prior to this point. But the implantations started failing and My doctor said, this embryo was only attached for two hours, maybe a couple of hours is what they said. I just thought, how on earth, like why on earth would something attach for just a couple of hours and then that be the situation where It just doesn't work out from there. Like what is happening? And you know, got immediately, the immediate response was bad odds. You know, this happens, miscarriage happens. Just keep going. You know, one in four, in eight, you you get all the stats and there's definitely a piece of that when you're not working with really good quality embryos. But you know, I was, I knew that everything was genetically great. knew. and had no reason to believe that my body wasn't in working order to, you know, produce a pregnancy. So I just started pushing harder and getting a little bit more more fearful of continuing down the path of losing babies because I just, it hit me so hard. Even the loss of two hours, I mean, I just like, I've never felt sorrow like that. And I didn't, I just didn't feel like myself or really anyone should have to like continue down that path for like the sake of odds. So I started doing my own research and I was at the time experiencing some issues in my digestive system. I also now looking back had a definite cortisol issue. which relates into the picture, but I was a CMO at Vital Proteins at the time, which is that blue tub collagen company. And so I had a high stress level and I knew that something was going on in my digestive system. This was, you know, 2016, 2015, 2016, 2017. So. Michelle (05:39) yeah. Caryn Johnson (05:58) almost prior to when we really started, you know, as a world, as a community talking about the microbiome and gut health. But I sought out a naturopath who ended up doing a blood panel on me and told me that I had, you know, hundreds of food sensitivities, which is a a classic sign of gut dysbiosis, but at the time it wasn't translated back to like an issue in the microbiome. It was treated as like, yes, you have all of these, you have all of these issues with, you know, different foods, just avoid them. And that will be the solve versus, why do you have like, you know, why do you have a hundred things that you can't eat? Michelle (06:42) Hmm. Caryn Johnson (06:46) like watermelon seeds up to your typical gluten, et cetera. So I just started doing my own research online and I found a book called, Is My Body Baby Friendly? It's written by Dr. Alan Beer, who is now deceased, but it's over 700 pages of the science of how the immune system works with your reproductive system, your hormones, et cetera. in order to effectively procreate or in order for conception and implantation to occur. And that's when I realized there was something greater going on in my body outside again of just my reproductive system that we just hadn't figured out yet. So I read the book Front to Back. It's a very science heavy book. So I had to do a lot of like thinking about new terms and figuring and trying to remember what I was learning. At the end of the book, there was a recommendation at the time, there are more doctors now, but at the time for three doctors that practice this type of medicine, which is the field of reproductive immunology. And so, Michelle (08:01) Mm-hmm. Caryn Johnson (08:03) One of those doctors, Dr. Joanne Kwok-Kam of Rosalind Franklin ended up being in my backyard essentially 45 minutes away in the Chicago area. So I took that as a sign that I needed to call and get additional help above and beyond my RE who was doing the IVF. And I called over there and was immediately put on a six month wait list. So proceeded with the next round of IVF because I was already on some hormones. So I was already going through the round. I had at that point only done my own research. So I wasn't really sure what was going on in my body or if I could believe what I had read because my doctors that were helping me with the IVF weren't really like saying that They believed in the immunology side of things. They hadn't seen enough research, et cetera. So I wasn't really getting support on what I was researching. So it was around the holidays, October-ish, when I ended up calling into the clinic and I ended up getting a call right around Thanksgiving that they had a cancellation and I got moved up on the wait list. So I ended up getting into the reproductive immunology clinic many months before they said I would two weeks before my next IVF transfer and that was just an awesome Hail Mary. They did a full ultrasound. So tip to toe thyroid, you know, your whole stomach area inside and outside. And then they do the craziest blood panel that I've ever done. don't know how you can even draw that much blood, but vials and vials of blood to look at immune markers in addition to hormone markers, vitamin markers, and your typical blood panel. And they called me back 48 hours later and said, need to cancel this implantation. You have the highest level of antibodies that we've ever seen. not that we've ever seen, but that we're able to track. So you're past like where the chart goes essentially. So if you proceed with your implantation, it's almost definitely gonna end in a miscarriage because your body is gonna fight it off. And at that point I was terrified because that was like the first real something's actually wrong with you that I had heard. Michelle (10:21) wow. Wow. Caryn Johnson (10:50) Everything else was just unexplained, unexplained, unexplained. And I just went into shock. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know who to believe. You know, I had two sets of doctors saying different things. So I proceeded with the implantation and I ended up implanting both a boy and a girl embryo. And then started treatment right away on my immune system through the reproductive immunologist. So what they did was they put me on a series of pretty intense medications to quiet my immune system. And then I did what is called IVIG, which are blood transfusions or infusions that essentially look to wash your blood of the antibodies that are over protecting the immune system. So I went into this protocol and I ended up getting pregnant. It was positive right away. we saw, so the clinic ended up treating me one to three times a week with this IVIG infusion, which they're about two to three hours long based on, they're based on body weight. Michelle (11:50) Mm-hmm. Caryn Johnson (12:14) I was in their office, you know, at least one to two times a week, also for an ultrasound. So I knew by five weeks that both embryos had attached. you know, at that point, my immune markers were even more all over the place. We couldn't get my immune system to a stable level by any means. And I ended up losing the girl embryo at seven weeks. her heartbeat slowed and then ultimately it stopped, which is one of the symptoms or issues when you have an autoimmune issue going into a pregnancy. So, you know, that was so sad and devastating and she was higher up in the womb than the boy embryo. So at that point, It was pretty much 50-50 odds of if she was going to end up coming out and bringing him with her or if she was going to be what's called a vanishing twin, which is when your body reabsorbs the pregnancy for the sake of the other pregnancy, which is really the best case scenario because then you don't lose the other baby. Michelle (13:18) my gosh. Caryn Johnson (13:36) I was put on bed rest. This was the start of my bed rest between six and seven weeks, which continued until I gave birth, basically. I was able to go to work, but that was pretty much it. And I lived in fear that we were going to lose a little boy, but I ended up reabsorbing the girl embryo. So she never came out and we just really aggressively treated my immune system. which held on until 34 weeks when I went into basically how the immune system works during the pregnancy is during the first trimester, there is more inflammation that can be in the body and then it has to subside for the second trimester to continue successfully and then your inflammation increases and that's eventually causes or is part of why you go into labor. But my inflammation and my immune system increased really fast. my water broke early and I ended up having him, you know, early but he was healthy because some of the immune medications included steroids. So he was a little bit bigger than, you know, your typical 34, 35 weaker. But I was able to carry my son and that really started my story of what the heck happened and why is autoimmunity so under researched when it comes to your reproduction and your fertility chances and how can I actually do more now that I have my children here. Michelle (15:06) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caryn Johnson (15:33) to support other women so they don't have to go through this amount of trauma, right? But also this amount of like research and advocacy for themselves because at the end of the day, like we just can't expect that from everyone and we shouldn't. We should be able to support. Yeah, so I'll take a breath there. Michelle (15:40) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow, that's incredible story. And I mean, it's it's mind boggling, you know, that, nobody really talks about something that is so prevalent. And I do see that a lot, actually. And it could be the reason why you have unexplained infertility or why transfers don't work. And I speak to Amy Ralph, Amy Ralph, she's a Caryn Johnson (16:19) Yeah. Michelle (16:20) she does the same thing, Chinese medicine. And she talks about this a lot. She says, if you miscarry or you have repeated transfer failures with a good embryo and your doctor doesn't look into like what your lining is doing and how your immune system is working, then go to a different doctor because it's so important to look into that because you could spend so much time. and you can spend so much money and just so many precious years going through so much loss for something that could be treated but can also be prevented. So I'd love to actually get your input on what you've discovered and how the gut relates to it but maybe other things that you've noticed or learned for the listeners. Caryn Johnson (16:59) Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I think what you're saying is just incredibly important. Like the immune system, I feel like is the secret starting point to a lot of issues. And what's happening in medicine right now is a lot of women are walking away with an unexplained infertility diagnosis, but they're accepting that as a diagnosis, right? When it's not, it's just, it's not an answer. And if you look underneath kind of that answer, you see a lot of crazy statistics, such as over 65 % of women who have unexplained infertility actually have an issue in their immune system. And then similarly over 60 % have an issue in their metabolic system. So blood sugar, insulin, know, early signs of PCOS, et cetera. And then. Michelle (18:05) You Caryn Johnson (18:10) When you look, you see that there are deep, deep nutrient deficiencies happening in this group of women as well. So you're looking at vitamin D deficiencies, vitamin B deficiencies, magnesium, omegas. All of these start with modulations that occur in the immune system as well. So when you think about it on a deeper level and from the research that I've done, Michelle (18:23) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, yeah. Caryn Johnson (18:39) you're looking at something that's happened to you before it's affecting your hormones and triggering one of these other issues in your reproductive system. So like for instance, not only do I have, you know, autoimmune infertility, I do carry PCOS and adenomyosis as well. And for me, and based on the research that I've done, those are secondary factors. to my immune system modulating and creating an overly inflammatory environment in my body, which then produced those issues. So we're not going up far enough in the chain of our bodies as to understanding our full systems. And again, it kind of goes back to like what's happening in medicine, which is that our doctors are Classically trained in our reproductive organs, right? So they know our uterus they know our ovaries they understand how those work, but we need to get into you know, a new phase where we have Practitioners that understand how all of the systems are working together in our body Including our immune system and our endocrine system because they do...
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EP 312 A Holistic Approach to Fertility | Sonia Ribas
11/19/2024
EP 312 A Holistic Approach to Fertility | Sonia Ribas
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, Sonia Ribas @soniaribascoach shares her journey from a marketing executive to a fertility coach, emphasizing the importance of holistic approaches to fertility. She discusses common challenges faced by individuals trying to conceive, the often unnecessary reliance on IVF, and the critical role of personalized treatment plans. Sonia highlights the impact of oxidative stress on fertility and the significance of mindfulness and community support in the fertility journey. Her insights aim to empower individuals and couples navigating the complexities of fertility. Takeaways: Sonia transitioned from a marketing executive to a fertility coach after discovering her passion for holistic health. Many individuals seek help too late in their fertility journey, often after failed IVF attempts. Statistically, 50% of IVF cases may not be necessary, highlighting the need for proper preparation. A holistic approach to fertility considers physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual factors. Oxidative stress negatively impacts egg and sperm quality, making lifestyle changes essential. Personalization in treatment is crucial; what works for one person may not work for another. Mindfulness practices can help manage stress, which can be harmful to fertility health. Community support is vital; many women feel isolated in their fertility struggles. Education and actionable steps are key components of effective fertility coaching. Guest Bio: Sonia Ribas, MBA, HHC, RYT Sonia is a sought-after LA based Fertility Coach and a Mom of 3. In her last 15+ years, she has successfully coached thousands of couples struggling to conceive. Her highly personalized, transformational and integrative lifestyle-based approach, which covers everything from nutrition to wellbeing, makes her an expert guide in her clients’ path towards Parenthood. She helps couples 1on1, in groups and in collaboration with Fertility Clinics around the world, in order to help patients boost their fertility from every possible angle and maximize their chance of conceiving, both naturally and via IVF. Besides helping couples conceive healthy babies, she is a wellness educator and extremely passionate about inspiring people around the world to lead healthy lifestyles. She constantly collaborates with International lifestyle media outlets and companies as a consultant, speaker, educator and expert Health Coach. You can find her at soniaribas.com and on Social Media @soniaribascoach. For more information about Michelle, visit: Check out Michelle’s latest book here: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Sonia. Sonia Ribas (00:02) Thank you so much, Michelle. Michelle (00:04) Yes, I would love for you to share your story of how you got into this work that you do. Sonia Ribas (00:11) Okay. Yeah, let's go for it. So I always say, sometimes you find things in life. Sometimes things find you. In my case, fertility found me. So in my previous life, as I like to call it, I was marketing executive and director for multinationals. And then I found yoga and I fell in love with hot yoga at the time to the point that I left my job and I went travel the world. and I created one of the first online yoga studios in the world. And as I was doing that, yeah. And I was, was doing that occasionally. I was also teaching private sessions and, I was living in Boston at that time and I had a client who was originally from India and she was my yoga student and she was great. And then she was relocated back to India. And then she called me and she said, Michelle (00:45) cool. Sonia Ribas (01:06) Hey, my OBGYN says I'm not going to be able to have children and I'm devastated. And I was like, wow. And she said, you're the only person I trust. And I was like, well, wait a second. Like I'm not a fertility person, you know? Like I'm into healthy lifestyle. I'm a yoga instructor. I know a thing or two about these things because I follow it, but not fertility. And she said, Sonia, you're the only person I trust. So. Michelle (01:32) Wow. Sonia Ribas (01:33) This is 15 years ago. So I teamed up with my mother, who's a traditional Chinese doctor in Spain. And we teamed up together and we put together a holistic program. That was the very, very first version of what I do today. And, you know, we created meditation videos, yoga videos, lots of herbs, supplements, diet, lots of mindset tools and things like that. Things that we were coming up with. And I did a lot of research as well. to understand, you know, I'm a research nerd, so to understand what works, what's proven, et cetera. So we created the first version for her and her labs improved a lot and she got pregnant naturally. So her OBGYN in India started referring people my way. Michelle (02:16) All right. Sonia Ribas (02:22) So yeah, the rest is history. So I started informally doing fertility coaching without being certified. My mom was helping me, but at some point my mom said, you know, I have a full practice in Spain. I think it's time for you to go on your own. So this was 15 years ago. So obviously fast forward, I got certified. I became a health coach and I got a lot of certificates in medicine and women's health and a lot more. And then I started practicing fertility coaching 15 years ago, then I had three kids of my own. So I perfected my method with obviously my own experience. And yeah, by now we've helped make more than a thousand babies. Michelle (03:08) Amazing, that's incredible. So cool. So what are some of the common things that you see when people come to you for fertility? Like some of the common stories that people share on their journey I know that's a big question, but whatever comes first. Sonia Ribas (03:27) Totally. So what I wish I would see, first I'm going to tell you what I wish and then the reality is, because sometimes it helps understand what I wish I would see is I wish I would see more people come earlier. So I always use the analogy of a wedding, know, the same way as you prepare for a wedding. And if you think I'm going to get married, you don't just show up in your sweatpants at your wedding, right? You prepare, you get a dress, you prepare a set, you know, you get the whole thing going. Michelle (03:41) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sonia Ribas (03:57) I wish it would be the same for having a baby because there's a lot of things that we would prepare in advance. There wouldn't be so many headaches and so many heartaches. Now, the reality is that I see people when they're on the desperate side, when they've been trying for a while and it has the journeys longer than they anticipated or when they've been told IBF is their only option. Michelle (04:14) Mm-hmm. Sonia Ribas (04:23) or even worse when they've tried IVF or IUI and it didn't work and then they come to me as a better alternative, more empowered version to get pregnant. Michelle (04:35) And you say you had mentioned that you think that many times in many cases, people don't really need IVF. What has your experience been with that? Sonia Ribas (04:46) So statistically, 50 % of IVF cases are not needed. So that right there tells you what happens, right? So a lot of people are thrown into IVF because that's the nature of the Western medical approach to fertility. In some cases, it works. In many cases, it doesn't work. And when it doesn't work, most of the times it's because the person was unprepared or the couple was unprepared or because it was not needed. So I always say, I always use the analogy of a car. So if your car doesn't work, what do you do? You take it to the mechanic and the mechanic tries to jumpstart the battery. So that's IVF. IVF is jumpstarting your system. You might or might not be ready for it. It might or it might not work, but the process is very expensive, very invasive, and it has side effects potentially for the rest of your life. So it's not something to take lightly. Michelle (05:19) Mm-hmm. Sonia Ribas (05:42) It's not like, hey, I'm going to get my whatever. It's not like I'm going to get my teeth cleaned. No, it's an invasive thing. So what I say is going back to the analogy of the car, if your car doesn't work, you can take it to the mechanic, you can open the motor and have a look. Clean whatever needs to be cleaned, repair whatever needs to be repaired so that when you try to switch it on, it will switch on without being jump-started. It will switch on natural. So this is what we do here. And I always say to people, hey, if down the line, it hasn't happened naturally and you want to continue trying IVF, by that time you'll be ready. Look, I always go back to statistics. IVF without preparation is about a 20 % success rate. IVF with the proper preparation and optimizing your system is an 85 % success rate. So if you're going to throw yourself into this process, At least prepare yourself so you can optimize your chances of success. Michelle (06:46) And what are some of the things that you see that people need when they come to you? Like, What are some of the more common things that you see? Sonia Ribas (06:56) So we here, we leave no stone unturned because everybody needs a combination of factors and everybody is really different. So for some people, it's more the physical side. For other people, it's more the mental, the past traumas, the blockages, the limiting beliefs energetically. So we leave no stone unturned. We cover everything from the physical layer, the mental, the emotional, the energetic, and the spiritual layer. So we have a holistic approach. to fertility, which I love your podcast is wholesome because we use that word all the time as well. Michelle (07:31) Yes, for sure. mean, there's so many different layers. Some of the things that I personally see is a lot of people are given diagnosis and I guess in the journey, it's very easy to get a lot of limiting labels thrown at you. And I really say thrown at you. mean, I was one of them. had my own issues with my menstrual cycle. growing up, but not realizing that I had other option. And I think that a lot of times is that people don't realize that they have options and they don't realize or aren't really told along the way, unless they find the right person, that there are alternatives and things that they could do to improve their state. I think that that was, that's the biggest hurdle is just really not even knowing anything else exists. Sonia Ribas (08:25) Absolutely. Yeah, so a lot of the things we do is education because people obviously you don't know and people go to Dr. Google, which is probably the last thing you should be doing because it's nerve-wracking. So we do a lot of education, but we step a lot into action. We're very, very action and results oriented. I always say to my clients, we are here for transformation. And if we are here for transformation, we need to combine information, plus action. So everything we offer here is very, very action oriented, whether it's on the diet side and we roll up our sleeves and we create personalized diets for our clients. But also, for example, on the movement side, we give them a lot of tools. Like it's not just, go move and go exercise, but we give them a lot of exercise videos, yoga videos, strength training, like all the tools they can actually go and implement with real actionables. Michelle (09:24) And when you talked about percentage of improvement for IVF, if you're prepared versus not prepared, is that anything specific to your work or something that you've seen? How do you base that? Sonia Ribas (09:38) No. Yeah. So that's kind of like statistics that we draw in our practice. mean, the fact that IVF is around a 20 % success rate is known. That's not something that I've decided. That's something that's published. Obviously, it depends on the age brackets and all that, but we can call it an average. And then what I see is I have a lot of people who've tried IVF, and they come my way after a number of failed rounds of IVF. Michelle (09:43) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sonia Ribas (10:06) And then we can draw statistics of like, from these people, how many people then have a successful IVF after? And it's about 85%. Michelle (10:13) Yeah, that's awesome. it's good to know. I'm curious because I'm a little bit of a numbers nerd myself and I like to kind of get like data and I hearing just things even with like studies and so kind of jogged my curiosity. That's awesome and I agree. I do Chinese medicine. I also do fertility coaching, but ultimately, Sonia Ribas (10:19) Me too. Michelle (10:35) when you do make these changes in your lifestyle, you really can optimize a lot of your wellbeing, but it's almost like you're the way I see it is you're triggering an anti-aging because that's really what fertility is. It's kind of like anti-aging treatment. If you think about it, it's the same thing. It's just really optimizing your health, optimizing your mitochondria and your body's energy so that it's able to Sonia Ribas (10:52) Right? Yes. Michelle (11:02) produce, reproduce, but that's ultimately like turning back the clock, which we can actually do. something that you can actually do with lifestyle, which is why I find it so empowering in general. I find that a lot of people also feel that it's not just empowering for conceiving, but it's empowering as they get older as well. Sonia Ribas (11:12) Yes. Yes, yes, exactly. So what we do here is reverse the effects of oxidative stress. So as you say, it's kind of like the anti-aging version of fertility. Michelle (11:36) And what are some of the things that you find or some of the ways you approach that just for people listening that are curious, like, cause some people know, you know, that that can impact equality as we age, oxidative stress gets higher, but some people might not, you know, it might be like new terms if they're just listening to this now and they're first starting this journey. so let's kind of break it down for the listeners if they're hearing this and why it's so impactful for not just egg quality, but for sperm quality as well. Sonia Ribas (12:09) Yes, there's a massive difference though. obviously as you age, oxidative stress happens. It's the byproduct of being alive. It's funny because my dad always said, you know, when my dad drinks or something and I say, hey, dad, this kills you. He says, you know what? Living kills me. Being alive means that you are subject to the process of oxidative stress. Everybody's subject to that. Now there's a difference between egg and sperm. Eggs, Michelle (12:27) Mm-hmm. Sonia Ribas (12:38) You are born with your set of eggs. I cannot take out your eggs and replace them. They are there. We can do a lot of things to optimize their functioning, optimize their quality. As you said, optimize the mitochondria and make them fitter and stronger and better working, but they're the same. Now, sperm on the other side is regenerated all the time. The sperm that's ejaculated today is not the sperm that will be ejaculated tomorrow or in three weeks. That's why it's a lot easier. In my experience, it's a lot easier to improve sperm quality than egg quality. But we can work on both and we definitely have great success on both. But every time that I get a couple that have a combination of factors, I always look at the male and I say, okay, you're on the lucky side. If you do this program, I can guarantee for sure that your sperm will improve no matter what. Michelle (13:39) So let's talk about the egg quality and how oxidative stress impacts the egg quality and like what people can do, generally speaking to improve their quality of eggs. Sonia Ribas (13:44) Okay, yeah. Okay, great. So how it impacts egg quality is, well, it's in a number of ways, but primarily two very strong ways. One of them is genetically. It affects the DNA structure of your cells, including the DNA structure of your eggs. So when your eggs produce embryos, it might be that the embryos are genetically not normal. So that's when we see genetic things happen, even not viable. So that's one thing that happened. The other thing that is very visible that happens is that the mitochondria, which is the energy factories of the cells, get affected. So they're not as strong. This is why we recommend supplements like CoQ10, for example, to boost the functioning of the mitochondria. Now, what do we do holistically in this program to optimize that quality? It's one of my favorite topics in the world. Thanks for asking me that. So it's a holistic approach. We boost fertility, we boost equality from every possible angle, everything lifestyle-based and everything is research-based here. So everything we offer here has been proven at some point by research papers. So we work on 15 factors. So my program is 15 modules plus a bonus module, that's male factor. So for 15 modules, we deep dive into 15 areas of your lifestyle. that need to be optimized because they're strictly related to fertility. So if you optimize those areas of your lifestyle, you are boosting your fertility and your egg quality no matter what. And those are, there's a physical layer, there's a mental layer, emotional layer, energetic layer, and spiritual layer. So we combine things like diet, hydration, supplements, weight management, movement. We talk about inner dialogue, emotions. cortisol, stress, everything that happens related to your stress hormones, sleep patterns, circadian rhythms, your relationships, your toxic relationships, your conflict, your libido, your sex drive, your relationship, your connection to your partner, environmental toxins, empowerment, your connection to your inner power, limiting beliefs, empowering self-affirmations, meditations, cycle syncing. also do sit cycling, and then connecting to your group. So I think it's very important. And that's something we never talk about, which is like, can throw a lot of things at you. But if we don't find your version of what I'm talking about, it's not going to work. So that's why it's very important, the concept of bio-individuality, which means a person's food is another person's poison. Right? Michelle (16:34) Yeah, it's true. 100%. Sonia Ribas (16:45) Everything needs to be personalized to you because we are here to deliver results for you, not for your neighbor. So what works for your neighbor and your cousin might be very different. Some people have night shifts. Some people have preferences on food. Some people have cravings. Some people turn to different things to deal with emotions. Some people have past trauma, most of us. Like all of this is very, very personal. So what I'm very fascinated about and obsessed about is Michelle (16:53) my god, so true. Sonia Ribas (17:15) How do we go in the trenches with our clients? How do we help them land all the recommendations into their real life so that we can truly move the needle for them? Michelle (17:28) Yeah, I love that. It's so true because that is something that I often see is, especially when they first come to us because they're like, you know, my...
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EP 311 Could This One Thing be Harming Your Chances of Conception?
11/12/2024
EP 311 Could This One Thing be Harming Your Chances of Conception?
Welcome to The Wholesome Fertility Podcast! Today, I'm addressing an important topic that has come up frequently in my office: fertility-friendly lubricants. Many people don’t realize that certain lubricants can negatively affect sperm movement and reduce the chances of conception. In this episode, I discuss the common issue of vaginal dryness, especially when using fertility medications like Clomid or Letrozole, and how this can be an added challenge for those trying to conceive. I also explore natural ways to boost cervical mucus production, including staying hydrated and making dietary adjustments to improve moisture levels in the body. Additionally, I’ll be highlighting fertility-friendly lubricant brands such as and , and why choosing products that mimic natural cervical mucus is so crucial. If you’re trying to conceive, this information will help you optimize your chances and ensure you’re not unknowingly using something that could hinder your fertility. Takeaways: Avoid harmful lubricants: Most standard lubricants can be toxic to sperm or slow their movement, which can impact conception. Natural cervical mucus is ideal: Keeping hydrated and consuming foods rich in omega-3s and antioxidants like vitamin C can help increase your body’s natural moisture levels. Fertility-friendly lubricants to consider: Products like , , and are formulated to be sperm-friendly and closely mimic natural cervical mucus. Vaginal dryness and medications: Fertility medications such as Clomid and Letrozole may cause dryness, making it important to find safe solutions that support sperm health. Check out Michelle’s latest book here: For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. Today I'm going to be talking about something that I have not talked about yet, but it is an important topic because I've had a lot of people in my office come in and ask me about the specific topic. And a lot of times it is very important when it comes to fertility because People often don't realize that there are certain things that can actually be harming your fertility. So stay tuned because you're not going to want to miss this. So today I'm going to be talking about lubricants. This is actually a very common thing that people use lubricants and they don't realize that the majority of lubricants are actually not great for sperm. They're either toxic for sperm or they can impact how the sperm travels and slow down the traveling and fertilization of the egg. [00:01:00] So when it comes to fertility. It's a completely different ballgame, and it's really important to choose lubricants, if necessary, that are sperm friendly. So today I will be talking all about that. So first of all, I wanted to start out by saying, talking about why women can be dry, and sometimes it really is a cervical mucus thing, and And where it comes to cervical mucus, there are definitely things that you can do to impact cervical mucus naturally, but not just cervical mucus. It's also when taking certain fertility medications such as Clomid or Letrozole, those two medications can impact vaginal dryness as well. And this can be extremely frustrating when people are trying to conceive and women are having to have the difficulty and discomfort of vaginal dryness. And at the same time also timed [00:02:00] intercourse. So it kind of puts a whole other challenge to the whole challenging situation to begin with. So according to fertility and sterility, Vaginal dryness has actually been reported in about at least 46 percent of all reproductive aged women, which is actually really high considering. So this is really important because when it comes to baby making, it's really important that a woman feels comfortable because if a woman is dry, it can cause more irritation. It can even cause bleeding. And we don't want that because when that's the case, then you're feeling more stress in really trying to conceive. So many times people will want to find lubricants and they'll find things that are over the counter or certain products that they don't realize are actually harming the sperm. So they're using this and I've had people come in and say that they've dealt with it. the discomforts of vaginal dryness[00:03:00] and didn't really realize, but for the whole time they've been trying and sometimes it's close to a year they've been using lubricants that are not necessarily great for the sperm and didn't even realize it. So this is why I find it so important in the podcast and in general to give information to people because many times nobody really tells you this stuff. You really think that, okay, what's the big deal? It shouldn't make a difference, but it really does. And the same thing also with figuring out the fertile window. All of these things are typically not things that you learn, not in school and oftentimes not even at the doctor's office. So it is really important to understand your body and understand really like how to optimize your fertile window and how to optimize your chances of conceiving and what those certain things are that can impact. that process. So like mentioned before, [00:04:00] a lot of these lubricants can impact sperm movement and impact how sperm is able to fertilize. And this can obviously be an issue because the sperm needs something that's similar to the cervical mucus, which is why the cervical mucus is so important because it It protects the sperm, but it also is created in a beautiful way to allow the sperm to move as fast as possible and most efficiently so that it is able to get to the egg and fertilize for conception. Another thing that you want to look at is pH levels and if there's any chemicals in the lubricants that are harmful to sperm. So, ideally, you really want your own body's natural lubricant, which is cervical mucus. And there are a couple of things that you can do to improve that. And then I'll go over some other alternatives if that is not [00:05:00] working. But really what you want to do is increase your, in Chinese medicine speak, yin. Estrogen is a really important hormone in that process during the follicular phase that leads up to ovulation because estrogen is a very yin hormone. Yin is an aspect of the yin and yang that is more moist, more cooling, more feminine. So we want to bring in more moisture and we want to make sure that the body holds in that moisture. So there are definitely things that you can do to improve that and the first thing and it's the most obvious thing and I've seen it be the single handedly like the easiest way for people to improve cervical mucus is hydration. You would be shocked At how important it is to just hydrate because cervical mucus is majority is water. It really consists of water. And so if somebody is dehydrated and I've had a lot of people in the healthcare industry[00:06:00] that come in as patients, they just say they don't have time to drink. And I really push them on this because eventually they can actually shift that. It's just easier not to drink. So it's not that you can't drink. It's just that it. Tends to be easier and then it becomes a bad habit. So a lot of these people that are nurses, a lot of people that are dentists that are in the healthcare field don't really feel like they have an option. I work with them on that and they do change that. So it is possible. Anything's possible. It's just a matter of putting a little more effort to get in the habit. We're just have water with you to just ensure that you're having it and also having water in the morning. , listen, you know, it might be a little inconvenient to have to go to the bathroom a couple of times extra, but it is really important and it really can impact your cervical mucus in a huge way. I've had people that have noticed vaginal dryness and that they've also had many times where [00:07:00]they were not seeing the same kind of cervical mucus that they used to see when they were younger. And all they did was increase the hydration. and that within a couple of months really shifted things and they started to see it. They actually saw when they wiped that they had more cervical mucus and more like egg white consistency on the peak days. So that is actually a very easy way to do this. And as a rule of thumb, you want to take whatever your weight is in pounds, take that number, divide that in half, and that amount in ounces is what you want you know, to drink every day. So say you're 120 pounds. So divide that by half, that's 60. So you take 60 ounces per day is the rule of thumb of water. And ideally you have that in containers that are not plastic. So either glass or stainless steel. And then also make sure to filter that [00:08:00] water. So you know, just kind of a side note, I always talk about that with my patients. So that's really, really important is to increase hydration and part of hydration also is not just water is from time to time to make sure that you're getting electrolytes as well. You also want healthy carbohydrates. So carbohydrates can also help and carbs can help the yin aspect of our body. So it helps your body absorb and , keep itself hydrated. So that you're able to retain a little bit more water because that water is important to retain in order to hydrate your body in many different ways, including cervical mucus. Another really important vitamin that impacts cervical mucus is actually vitamin C. And you can also increase citrus fruits in your diet. This is something that has been shown to improve. cervical mucus. So these are things that you want to do naturally. Ideally, if you could do things naturally, then you're using your own body's [00:09:00] natural lubricant, which is optimized for sperm health and to protect sperm and to help the chances of conception. So ideally you want to try to get it where your body's doing this. Another important antioxidant is vitamin E as well. And that can help regulate estrogen in your body. You also want to get foods that are rich in omega 3s. Omega 3 fatty acids are really great for cervical mucus. And if you think about it, just oils in general, healthy oils. So, things like coconut oil that you're taking internally. I know some people use it physically, like as lubricant. I'm not a huge fan, but, Take things oils internally because when you're increasing those oils, which are very Yin substances, you're also improving your own body's ability to moisten itself. And you can also get, , those oils through nuts and [00:10:00] seeds, which are very rich in what we call in Chinese medicine, Jing. Jing is really fertile essence. It's really essence of the body. Okay. And if you think about seeds or nuts, they're basically seeds ready to sprout, which is ultimately like what egg and sperm are. So they're fertile, they're fertile by nature, and they have everything that they need and all the resources within it's the seed in order to fertilize and become fertile. So you want things in nature to borrow from so that it improves your own ability to fertilize as well, which of course is conception. So, here are things to consider if you were to buy fertility friendly lubricants. So, you want to find something that's water based so that it doesn't decrease sperm motility because that would be the most similar consistency to natural cervical mucus. You also want lubricants that are free[00:11:00] from parabens, fragrances, or any kind of chemicals, and ultimately to be the closest mimicking of natural cervical mucus. And here are some brands that are the most fertility friendly. And the first one is precede fertility lubricant. You'll see that very often it's available on Amazon, many different places. And then also good clean love biogenesis fertility lubricant. Another one is conceived plus fertility lubricant. And there's also Nautilus, the lube lubricant. And there are many different ones that you'll see. You'll also see Lola, fertility friendly lube, penchant organic. So these are things that you want to definitely look up and make sure that it says fertility friendly. And I always recommend just do your own research and really look into it. Look at the [00:12:00] reviews and find what you think is best for you but ultimately, like I said before, the best thing that you can do is try to get your own natural lubricants going, especially during the fertile window. If you have that a little bit more than, And I also recommend having sex outside of the fertile window. I often recommend that. And in that case, you don't have to worry quite as much. I still would use natural ones though, personally, because also when your body receives the sperm outside of the fertile window, then it will, lower its immunity so that you are able to receive the sperm because it's considered like an invader through the body. So you're able to really lower the immune system, which typically would happen in the second part of the menstrual cycle, which is the luteal phase that you're able to receive the sperm. So the more access your body has, or the more interaction it has with a [00:13:00] sperm, even if it's outside of the fertile window into the luteal phase, the more it becomes open to receiving it. And another plus for that is just really being able to connect outside of the fertile windows so that there's no timing on it. And it really is something that you can put towards your relationship with your partner so you can have that connection. And ultimately that is such an important part of the whole process because I know so many people tell me. And express how difficult it is to have to. put the pressure of timing and when they could do it. And when you open it up to more of a larger window outside of it, there's less added pressure and there's more time for connection. And as I mentioned this in my book, the way of fertility, which I highly recommend you check out because a lot of the things that I talk about are [00:14:00] all bundled up in there described perfectly because I repeat myself a lot. And this is one of the reasons I wrote the book is because I wanted to put all of my ideas and thoughts and all of my findings and lots of the information that I got from, , ancient wisdom and really the basis of Chinese medicine into a book where you can find it with exercises. But I talk about the connection between the partners and really having that connection because when you do have that connection and you really feel turned on, you will naturally also produce more natural lubricant. So those are natural processes of the body, but it all starts with the mind. So a lot of it really starts psychologically and it's It's about connecting, opening the heart. So I talk a lot about that in the book. You can look at the episode notes to find out more on how to get that. And I will also list these fertility friendly lubricants that I mentioned in the episode[00:15:00] notes. And you can always reach out to me. on Instagram. I'm always there and my handle is at the wholesome Lotus fertility. If you have any questions you want to reach out, you can find me there. So thank you so much for tuning in today and I hope you have a beautiful day.
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EP 310 Spirit Babies and the Circle of Life & Death | Ylette Luis
11/05/2024
EP 310 Spirit Babies and the Circle of Life & Death | Ylette Luis
In our conversation, Ylette shares her unique journey through motherhood, her connection with spirit babies, and the importance of intuition in the process of conception. She discusses her experiences with pregnancy, loss, and healing, emphasizing that these moments can also offer sacred element. Ylette also highlights the significance of community and support for women navigating their own journeys, encouraging them to trust their intuition and embrace their power. Takeaways Intuition plays a crucial role in understanding and connecting with spirit babies. Healing from past trauma is essential for creating a nurturing environment for new life. The experience of loss can be both painful and sacred, offering profound lessons. Surrendering to the process of conception can lead to unexpected outcomes. Building a supportive community is vital for women on their fertility journey. Trusting one's intuition is key to navigating the complexities of trying to conceive. Healing is a layered process that requires ongoing self-reflection and care. Nurturing oneself is essential for preparing to nurture a child. Guest Bio: Ylette is the visionary behind Xio by Ylette, a jewelry business that draws inspiration from her Latin roots and the enchanting magic of the cosmos. As an intuitive guide, she empowers women to reclaim their voices and rediscover their inner magic, allowing their light to shine brightly and illuminate the world. Ylette holds a heartfelt belief that when we do what sets our soul on fire & let that light sparkle, we inspire the entire world to glow in harmony. Passionate about motherhood, Ylette is devoted to helping mothers become their best selves, fostering love and nurturing for their children who will become the shining legacy of the future. Through her Mystic Mama Collective membership, Ylette holds space for mothers and women committed to walking the path, emphasizing the importance of balancing our human and soul aspects. This balance, she believes, helps us find the magic in the mundane and better navigate the journey with purpose. Through her whimsical approach and profound wisdom, Ylette weaves a tapestry of light, love, and magic, touching the lives of women and children alike. Social Media: Instagram: @ylette_ Check out Michelle’s latest book here: For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Ylette Ylette (00:02) Hi, hello, I am so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me and having me on. Michelle (00:07) Yes. So I have, we follow each other on Instagram. I watch your Instagram and I really love it. I loved your energy. And I was like, I really liked this girl. Like I got to have her come on. And you also, I knew that you were like working with spirit babies and I was like, my gosh, I really, really jive with her energy. So I'm so happy to have you on here. And I would love for you to introduce yourself and give us a little bit of a background and how you got inspired to do the work that you do. Ylette (00:37) Hi, so my name is Ile I got pregnant at 24 years old, had my daughter at 24, then turned 25. And I want to talk a little bit about that story because it is a big part of what shaped me into who I am today and connecting with spirit babies along the way. But I currently channel spirit babies. I am an intuitive. I study astrology, something that came very easy to me. I feel like when I went to school, I was that kid that barely retained anything. I mean, I could memorize something and throw it on a paper. So I always had good grades. but I feel like none of it really made sense to me and I didn't retain much. I did get a master's in psychology. I am currently by day a school counselor. And then I say a school counselor by day, I read the stars and connect with the cosmic energies by night and juggling mom life. But it wasn't until I found astrology that I felt like, whoa, I am home because it came so easy to me. And it was so intuitive that the chart, I just opened it up and I feel like I was being led. So I always say that I open someone's chart and the chart speaks to me. I don't do, your son is in this, your rising is in that. I'm like, we're gonna open up. We're gonna go wherever the chart leads me because I feel like astrology is so vast that if you start with just the surface level things, you can be there for hours. So I'm like, we're gonna go deep, Mercury and Scorpio, Scorpio, and we're gonna go deep right away. So that astrology really opens me up and strengthen my intuitive gifts. Michelle (01:36) That's cool. Mm -hmm. Ylette (02:05) So that's what I'm doing now. I'm kind of like balancing both being a school and connecting with spirit babies and doing astrology readings on the side. But what started this whole journey is when I was 24 I got pregnant with my first daughter, Sophia, really young. I mean, I think young for me. And while I was pregnant with her, I had had before, because I did suffer when I was younger, some sexual trauma and abuse, and you know, the body holds on to all of that. And so I had, I remember I had gone in for a pap smear maybe like two years before I conceived my daughter, and I had some cancerous cells on my cervix. Michelle (02:33) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Ylette (02:44) So I had the procedure to get a leap and do and have, you know, a piece of my cervix removed and all of that. And so when I told the doctor, when I had gotten pregnant with Sophia, that I had that procedure, they were like, now all of a sudden he was a new doctor. You're high risk. We have to do a bunch of ultrasounds just to make sure that your cervix is okay and it's not opening. And so I was having a lot of ultrasounds. And when I went in for my, I believe 16 week ultrasound, there was a tech that measured the cervix and I was having different techs measure it and What I found out later is that when different techs measure the cervix, they can get different numbers, so it's not really super accurate. So the tech was like, your cervix is super sure, and the doctor came in and he's all concerned, he's like, we're gonna have to do a cerclodge. So I imagine I was 24 years old at the time, I was so nervous, I wasn't confident, not in my power, I'm like, okay, you're the doctor, you know best. Michelle (03:33) So for people who aren't hearing this, when the cervix is really short, it could be considered like an which can cause miscarriage. And a cerclage is a way to keep it in place Ylette (03:43) Yes. Right. So the stitching. So I was like, okay, let's do this. And even my mom had freaked me out because she's like, that happened to your grandma in Cuba. She lost a bunch of pregnancies because her cervix would open and they had to end up sewing her up. And that's how she had me. And then, you know, my brother and I was like, okay, well, I guess this is it. And my partner at that time was like, are you sure you don't want to think about this? And I was like, no, the doctor knows best. So let's just go. So I went in for the procedure. I had it done the minute that I got out of surgery. I felt they had given me Tylenol coating. Now I know that it makes me throw up. So I don't take that anymore. But they had given it to me and I threw up. And when I threw up, guess I from the epidural, I urinated on myself and they thought that my water broke. So they were like, I was 18 weeks and they're like, your water, your water broke. We're going to do the like I think it's called the Fern test. They do to check if there's amniotic fluid. Michelle (04:41) Hmm? Ylette (04:44) until they did the test and it came back positive and they're like, for sure your water broke. Later I found out those can get false positives. So they were like, your water broke, we're gonna have to take the baby out right now. And I was like, what? And they're like, yeah, I'm so sorry. Like they didn't even hold me, they didn't allow any space for me to grieve or have all of these feelings. And I'm 24 years old just sitting there in the recovery room. My mom is next to me. Michelle (05:00) Wow, that's so crazy. Ylette (05:10) We get the news we're both freaked out. My mom instantly pulls out her Bible. She starts the up praying and I'm freaking out, but I was like, well, I mean, I guess, I guess if you're telling me that this is what's going to happen, this is what's going to happen. So they take me upstairs. They start that same day. They removed the sirclage that they had just put in. So talk about trauma. It went back in there. I was raw and just, and they removed it. And then they started putting servadil. Michelle (05:31) my God. Ylette (05:39) to start trying to soften my cervix. like, well, you you have no water, you're gonna keep leaking. Baby can't grow without amniotic fluid. So we're just gonna have to remove the baby. And the whole time I was freaking out, they put the cerclage, nothing was working. I think they put it three, I mean the cervidil, they put three different rounds of cervidil. Nothing was working, my cervix was tight. And all the while I could feel my baby moving. It's like whenever a doctor would come in, my baby was like, boom, Sophia, like, mom, pay attention. Michelle (06:02) my god. wow. Ylette (06:09) elbow me, she would move around and I would tell my mom, I'm like, mom, I feel her moving. I feel her kicking. It's almost like she's trying to tell me something. So this is where it gets really crazy. And I'm just like, wow, divine intervention. So we have a nurse come in and my daughter, my due date with my daughter Sophia was July 10th, 2010. And the nurse comes in and I see that she's wearing, because I'm big into jewelry. I didn't mention I also have like a jewelry company named after my grandmother, which I do a lot of Zodiac jewelry. So the nurse comes in and the first thing that I notice, of course, is that she's wearing a necklace and she has a cancer Zodiac on it. And I go to her, my God, my daughter was supposed to be a cancer. She's supposed to be born July 10th. And the nurse was like, what? My birthday is July 10th. Michelle (06:47) Hmm. Wow. Ylette (06:59) And I was like, my God, like what a coincidence her name was Gloria. And at the time I was going to name my daughter Sophia Bella. And I was like, wow. And the nurse, she did like the little doctor. She's like, listen, honey, I hear the baby moving around in there. There's water in there. You don't continue to leak. You need to get up out of this hospital and go because your baby is fine. And if you continue to stay here, they're going to end up doing something that is going to cause you to abort this child. And I feel like she's fine. in came another nurse right after her name Sophia. And she was like, the same thing happened to me. I had a little tear in my sack and it kind of sealed over. I was on bed rest and my son is here, born healthy. And I was like, you know what? I talked to my mom, was like, we need to go. When the doctor found out that I needed, that I was going to get up and go and like sign myself out, they came in, a specialist came in and was like, your baby can be born with this and this and this and it's not going to develop. Michelle (07:42) Yeah. Ylette (07:54) all of these things to scare me. And in that moment, I just felt so confident and so secure after talking to Gloria and that, you know, her coming in, which I feel like she was my earth angel with the little cancer zodiac necklace. I was like, no, I'm going to get up and I'm going to go and my baby keeps kicking me. And I trust that this is the right decision. I ended up leaving, found another doctor. The doctor's like, your cervix is fine. There's no issue with your cervix. Michelle (08:20) my God. Ylette (08:22) You don't even have to be on bed rest. Like, get up, do whatever you need to do. And my daughter Sophia was born July 10th, 2010, and I named her Sophia Gloria after the nurse. Michelle (08:32) my God, that is crazy. Yes, that is insane. just, my God, you have to listen to your intuition. think that that's like the, the of the story. Ylette (08:34) Isn't that insane? Yep. Yep. And it's so hard to do, with all of the fear and they just instill so much fear. And if you don't do this and if you don't do that, and it took so much within me to be like, you know what? I'm not, I'm going to go. And I remember my mom and I went to church every Sunday and we would pray and I was like, it makes sense that my daughter's name is Sophia. Sophia Christ consciousness, divine wisdom. And even in her astrology chart, she has so much old soul energy. She's a cancer rising cancer son, almost a cancer moon in the 12 house in Gemini. And I was like, this is just you came in to really activate me and really put me in touch with my intuition. And ever since then, I completely changed. can ask anyone and they will tell you pre Sophia and post Sophia, you were a completely different person. And I had a friend who, she actually went on a fertility journey and she was having a lot of miscarriages and she heard, I think she went to a fertility specialist and they gave her the book. What's that book called? The Spirit Baby book by Walter. Yeah. And. Michelle (09:53) Spirit Baby? Yeah. Ylette (09:58) She gave it to me and I was just so interested in it I started reading it and that book activated me. It was almost like a remembering. So when I started reading that book and I was like, wait a minute, it makes so much sense that we can connect to the souls of the babies that are going to come in because we are souls. And at 18 years old, I had read many lives, many masters. And when I learned about past lives, I was like, it was another like remembering. was like, I knew it. I know I've lived many lives. So when I read spirit babies, I'm like, Michelle (10:18) Hmm? Ylette (10:27) course, this makes so much sense. So I started connecting. I started doing the meditations in the book and I started connecting with my before I got pregnant, actually this happened. Now that I'm remembering reminding what, cause my husband and I wanted her and I was like, okay, if you're listening to me, if you're close, send me yellow butterflies. Every time that I would go out, three little yellow butterflies would flow around me. Michelle (10:44) Mm -hmm. wow. Ylette (10:50) Even my husband would play golf and he'd send me a picture. said, look, a yellow butterfly would land on his golf ball. And I was like, this is so legit. I ended up getting pregnant and it was the most connected that I have felt to any I would call in the guides. I would call in my ancestors. It was just such a spiritual experience. So fast forward, I think a lot of us went through a lot in 2020 and it's almost like if our world got turned upside down. I know for us, even like with our business, we went through these highs, these lows and a lot of transformation. And so fast forward, we moved from Miami to Orlando. And so fast forward to this year in March, I started seeing some yellow butterflies Like I was just seeing them randomly. was like, well, maybe, you know, I'm just seeing yellow butterflies because we live in a very lush neighborhood. We have a lot of trees. Okay. Yellow butterflies. The eclipse hits. Surprise. I ended up finding out that I'm pregnant. We weren't expecting it. but I feel like this is the thing the one that kind of transformed me because Prior to that I had channeled. I think it was in 2021 a message about mothers needing to really Cleanse and clear any trauma that is held in the womb to be able to hold the vibration of the new children So a lot of things that I've been channeling is that these new babies that are coming in, they're really high vibe. Like their vibration is different. Even the way that we are experiencing karma, their experiencing karma is going to be different because these new souls really come to anchor the light. These are awakened souls. These are, you know, children from the stars. And I started channeling that information, but I didn't fully understand it. And I kept channeling things about the mother wound and Michelle (12:28) Okay. Ylette (12:41) clearing the womb and how much trauma we may be holding in our womb. But again, I was like, I've kind of dealt with that. I I went through my trauma. had the whole thing with the sirclage, but I've dealt with that. But healing is very layered. And when we think that we've healed something, another thing kind of comes up for clearing and healing. Exactly. We're peeling back the onion. And so I thought, okay, well, you know, I've healed all of that. So Michelle (12:54) Mm Mm Yeah. It's like an onion. Mm Ylette (13:11) When I got pregnant this last time, it ended in a miscarriage. And I almost knew because I had been living so, you know, when you get into a stage where you just feel like numb and you're disconnected and I felt very disconnected from my creativity, very disconnected from my heart, just kind of going through the motions of, you know, work And I didn't feel like myself. I didn't have any passion. And so when I went to the doctor, I remember I was like eight weeks pregnant and I went to the doctor and they couldn't find a heartbeat. It's almost like I knew I was like, I'm disconnected from my heart. And the most powerful, I will say now experience that I have had has been experiencing a miscarriage. Michelle (13:49) Mm Ylette (13:58) because I was able to hold the pain and the joy and almost like life inside me, but then a death as well. And when I passed the baby, I passed the baby And I woke up and I was in my kitchen. And I felt this one big contraction and I thought, the baby's coming. And I passed the baby and when I look, it was like the full baby in the sack, in the water. Yeah, I even have, I mean, it's kind of intense graphic, but I do have a picture of it because I wanted to keep that. And it was, I remember just looking down and holding her because I think it was a girl. And in that moment, Michelle (14:26) wow. Ylette (14:44) I looked down and I was like, wow, this, this little tiny thing in the water, just perfect, this little embryo. And I cried. And I, at that moment, I held both joy and sadness. It was like they both coexisted at the same time for me. And it's almost like this peace, the sense of peace washed over me. And I felt like this this clearing, this cleansing, almost as if this soul, this baby, this experience came to me to help me release all of that trauma that still lingered in my womb, anything that I still hadn't dealt with, anything that was still stored in there. And it was just so beautiful and so magical. I just, I took her and I buried her. have this huge grandmother oak tree in the front and I did a whole little ritual and I just felt like this purity come over me, like this cleansing. And I finally understood what I had channeled in that message of cleansing and clearing the womb. And sometimes it's through our grief that we learn the biggest lessons and we can hold, like if we really surrender to it, because I remember coming back from the hospital and asking God, I was...
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EP 309 What You’re Not Being Told About Gut Health and it’s Impact on Fertility | Josh Dech
10/29/2024
EP 309 What You’re Not Being Told About Gut Health and it’s Impact on Fertility | Josh Dech
In today’s episode, I interview Josh Dech. In our conversation, Josh discusses the critical role of gut health in overall well-being, emphasizing that gut health impacts not just digestion but various aspects of health, including fertility. He shares his journey from being a paramedic to a holistic health practitioner, highlighting the importance of understanding inflammation, dysbiosis, and the gut microbiome. Josh challenges conventional medical perspectives on chronic diseases and discusses the significance of dietary choices, the role of probiotics, and the hidden threats posed by parasites. He advocates for a comprehensive approach to gut health, including the five Rs of gut health, and stresses the importance of working with health professionals for optimal results. Be sure to tune in! Takeaways Gut health impacts everything, not just digestion. Inflammation is a sign of the body wanting to heal. Dysbiosis is an imbalance in gut bacteria. Symptoms can indicate underlying issues. Diet plays a crucial role in gut health. Conventional medicine often overlooks root causes. All diseases have a root cause. Probiotics can be beneficial but vary in effectiveness. Parasites can significantly affect gut health. Working with a professional is essential for healing. Guest Bio: Josh is a Holistic Nutritionist specializing in Crohn’s and Colitis, and other related gut issues. After reversing over 250 cases of bowel disease, previously thought to be impossible to fix, he’s been connected to some of the world’s most renowned doctors. He’s since been recruited to the Priority Health Academy as a medical lecturer, helping educate doctors on the holistic approach to gut health, and inflammatory bowel disease; and has launched a top 2.5% globally ranked podcast. For more information about Michelle, visit: Click here to get free access to the first chapter in The Way of Fertility Book! The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Josh. Josh Dech - CHN (00:02) A pleasure to be here, Michelle. Thanks for having me on board. Michelle (00:05) Yeah, I'm very excited to pick your brain. We just had a little pre -talk. I'm excited to really get into all the details of the gut nowadays we're starting to see just how impactful it is, but not just for digestion, which is like most of the time when you hear about gut, you think, okay, how's my digestion? It's about everything. It's kind of like the center of everything. It impacts fertility. But before we get into that, I'd love for you to share how you got into this work. Josh Dech - CHN (00:36) I'd love to. Sure. You know, I think my entire career, I often like to describe it as a series of accidents just pushing me into one direction or another. And I used to be a paramedic and I loved it. You know, I love being in healthcare, but it wasn't very long until I realized it was actually sick care. It wasn't what I wanted to actually be doing. You know, I picked the same people up for the same things. Maybe 20 % of your calls were actually trauma, like car accidents and stuff like that. The other 80 plus percent was medical. So we're talking people coming in for the same issues, heart issues, diabetic issues, strokes, very preventable things. Almost 99 % of them would be preventable through just simple lifestyle, nutrition and basic changes. And, you know, I ended up leaving that career after a short little stint and got into personal training in my early twenties. And that was more what I wanted to do. And I was a woman who came to see me at age 57, right at the beginning. And this is, this story is just, it'll knock your socks off because it really shows you what's possible. So she's 57 years old. She came to see me. She was on 17 pills and a shot of insulin for breakfast. She had nine more pills and insulin for bedtime. So we're talking 26 pills a day, two shots of insulin. She had CPAP machine to sleep. She had high blood pressure. She was on disability at work as well on the list. So 27 floors up, but there was a fire. She had to stand there and wait for someone to come get her because she couldn't physically take the stairs. And that was the state of her health at 57. And so here we are two years later, she's 59 years old now. Michelle (01:54) my God, wow. Josh Dech - CHN (02:02) She's off all but two medications, no longer needs CPAP. She's no longer on disability, high blood pressure gone, it's totally normalized. Even her eyesight improved. She got her glasses prescription downgraded. And now he or she is 59 years old, Michelle, it gets even better. I told you, knock your socks off. We entered into her first weightlifting competition and she broke a world record in the raw power lifting federation in Canada at 59 from previously being on disability. And this is the power. Michelle (02:14) Wow. Yeah Josh Dech - CHN (02:30) really truly the human body to go from 26 pills and insulin and disability to breaking world records right till she was in her mid 60s 62 63 when she retired from weightlifting but that's what the body can do it's consistently all the time it is working to heal you to improve you to rebuild you to build you stronger yet somehow we find ourselves continually going back the other way i'm getting it must be because i'm older it must be because you know i'm just getting sick it must be just genetic it must be this must be that She was told all of her shit was genetic. None of it was. Her body was trying to heal her but it wasn't given the tools conditions and circumstances to do so until it was and then it did. And this is the power of we'll say holistic health is a super broad overarching spectrum but dealing with basics of nutrition and gut health and wellness at its root we can see that the body is so capable of healing itself and it's the most important thing you could ever do is give your body what it needs. Michelle (03:01) Yeah. Josh Dech - CHN (03:29) That's sort of how we got here. Michelle (03:29) That is so powerful. Yeah, I that's so powerful because I, well, I think that the big thing that really gets in the way is kind of how we view our bodies or how we're taught to view our bodies. I want to say that we're conditioned to view our bodies because I think on an innate level, we do know that we can heal ourselves. There's definitely like an innate knowing that you have and intelligence that you connect with with your body. But most people do not know based on how we're educated that their body can heal itself and that there is a choice outside of the 26 pills. Josh Dech - CHN (04:02) Yes. Yeah, right now you've been told there's nothing you can do right now you've been told your issues are genetic right now you've been told your only hope is medications to manage the symptoms there's nothing that can be done. But we need to understand as I learned throughout my career going back to school now specializing in gut diseases. Our guts really are at the epicenter of most of these things. And once you understand how it works, how it's connected, and how it's responsible for every aspect of your well being. I argue sometimes that it well may be more important than our DNA. And once we can understand this concept, then we can start to look outside of what we think we already know, what we've been told. It unlocks a whole new, a whole new world for you. I'm singing a lot of it in my head now, a whole new world, but it opens all this stuff up for you. And then everything is possible. Everything you've been told becomes something of the past. Your whole paradigm begins to shift. And finally, you can look at yourself and go, wait a minute. Michelle (04:37) You Josh Dech - CHN (05:03) wait a minute, there, I don't have to be on these medications. I don't have to just deal with this. I don't have to just live with this because my body is trying to heal me. What is it trying to heal me from? And then you start unraveling. That's the thread that pulls apart the whole sweater. Michelle (05:17) Yeah. And also inflammation is kind of at the heart of this because I know that it can impact so many things. know for fertility, it can impact your uterine lining. It can impact egg quality. it's very much linked with things like endometriosis. I mean, there's so many things and it just goes on and on and on. So let's talk about inflammation because that's really at the heart of all of this. Like when you address the gut health, actually addressing inflammation. So talk about that. Talk about the Western approach to that and how you see inflammation occurring in the body. Josh Dech - CHN (05:55) Yeah. Inflammation is always a reaction. Your body is healing you from something. And in the Westernized world, here's what I'll say. Imagine you're out going for a walk and you step on a nail and the nail goes right through your foot and you go into your doctor. The doctor looks at that nail and goes, wow, it is really swollen, really inflamed, but it's kind of just part of your body. Now there's nothing we can do about it. So what we're going to do is give you numbing cream for the pain. And if it gets infected, we can manage that as things get worse. In worst case scenario, we'll just cut your foot off. That's absurd. may, you'd lose it. You slap the doctor, but here we are, we're going in and you got say a gut disease where I specialize like Crohn's, colitis and other gut disease. You go into your doctor, they go, wow, that inflammation is really bad. It's just genetic. It's part of your body. There's nothing we can do. We're going to manage it with quote numbing cream. So medication, anti -inflammatories. And when you get infected, we'll treat it as it comes up. And if worst case scenario, we'll just cut the organ out. You should be slapping your doctor just like you would if it were your foot because it makes no sense. Inflammation, the very fundamentals of it is your body healing you from something. So let's apply this to Crohn's and colitis, right? Where I specialize is Crohn's, colitis and severe IBS. People are told it's genetic, it's autoimmune, there's nothing you can do. It is what it is. well, it will manage it or hopefully not cut out your bowels. Looking at this, it's not just genetic. It's not just autoimmune. It's not just unknown. And I can break those down in about two minutes there, Michelle, really for you to basically, those are the three legs that Western medicine stands on to say you have to medicate it. I can break those with their own data and say it doesn't make any sense. But the idea being these inflammatory conditions we're told we're stuck with, yet we can reverse them 99 % of the time to full healing. Inflammation is your body healing you. We have to ask what is it healing you from? So in the case of your intestines, they will, it's autoimmune and genetic, it's attacking your own body. Well, what if, what if your body is attacking something like your microbiome and your own tissues are caught in the crossfire, right? You get a nail in your foot, your body's not attacking your foot. That's not why you're inflamed. It's creating white blood cells or immune activity in response to attack the nail that's in your foot. Michelle (07:50) Mm Mmm. Josh Dech - CHN (08:13) We don't question that. go, obviously it's infected. There's something that's wrong. When we get a condition like Crohn's or colitis or some other inflammatory condition, we go, it's attacking me. That doesn't make any sense at all. Michelle (08:13) Mm That's so interesting. So how do you see that specifically Crohn's is it the gut microbiome imbalance that's causing all of this? I think it's fascinating that you're saying this because I always talk about like symptoms being your friend. And it's actually just one of the intelligent aspects of your body to give you the alarm, to give you a heads up. Hey, pay attention. Josh Dech - CHN (08:36) Yeah. Mm Michelle (08:52) So it is really fascinating to look at it that way rather than a nuisance. Josh Dech - CHN (08:52) Yeah. Yeah, I see it cascading down as a few different things. So number one, we all have dysbiosis now. Dysbiosis just means an imbalance in bacteria. But we know through the work of someone like Justin Sonnenberg that we can see what's called inherited dysbiosis. Our microbiomes are passed down from our mothers and her grandmother and her great, great grandmother before that. We get these dysbiotic states handed down and the more toxic our world gets them, the the dysbiosis becomes. Michelle (09:06) Mm Josh Dech - CHN (09:26) So think of it this way, Michelle, great, great grandmother, we'll just round number just to visualize easier. Say they have a thousand microbes. Great grandmother gives birth to your great grandmother, who's given 800, who gives birth to your grandmother, who gets six, to your mother, who gets 400, to you, who gets 200 microbes. You now have inherited dysbiosis. Of course your gut's getting worse, which explains the rise of gut disease we've seen over the last... 50 to 75 years, we've seen these numbers compounding gut disease getting worse in the 1950s, Crohn's and colitis. There was about, I think it was maybe five or 10 in 100 ,000 people had this disease. To the 1970s, you're now 25 to 40 in 100 ,000 who have the disease. 1990s, you're about 150. And now today, it's 456. Almost 5 % of people now have bowel disease in North America. And so what we're seeing now is this continual growth from like whatever it was, 0 .0005 % to 5 % growth in bowel disease is because great great grandmother had a thousand, now you've got 200. This is inherited dysbiosis. And there's a direct correlation to the amount of pesticides we use, to the chemicals we put on our food, to everything. And now what happens, this dysbiosis, this is the moat around the castle. This keeps the bad guys out. Michelle (10:39) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Josh Dech - CHN (10:49) This is your defense mechanism. 90 % of your immune system is made there, or 70 to 90%, I should say, up to 90 % of your neurotransmitters, what your brain needs, all these leaks that happen in the gut when we're inflamed, it opens up the door for toxins to travel anywhere in the body through your lymphatic system or your bloodstream. And so we have our defenses lowered from 1 ,000 to 200, say. We don't have the same robustness to our body. Michelle (10:54) Mm Josh Dech - CHN (11:16) which means other invaders, mode is empty, invaders can enter the castle. So now we've got three big issues that really are the roots of bowel disease. Number one is going to be microbial imbalances. So this is that dysbiosis we inherited, which lets in overgrowth of fungus, which should be in our gut, but in smaller levels it overgrows. We see overgrowth of E. coli, a big one I see. Michelle has parasites. I'm talking three, four foot worms coming out of people, which yeah, which. Michelle (11:20) Hmm. Mm God. Josh Dech - CHN (11:45) has never been detected and will never be seen on your blood work from your doctor. So we see microbial imbalances. We also see toxins which contribute to this number of 200. So pesticides in 1990, right, we had let's go back to the 50s. We talked about say five or 10 in 100 ,000 to 1990 where it was about 150 to today where it's almost 456 per hundred thousand people with bowel disease. In the 1950s there was a handful of pesticides for use. 1990s it was 700 to 900, today it's 18 to 20 ,000 different pesticides approved for use in North America. And so this is a direct correlation, also looking at processed foods and packaged foods and seed oil consumption, the decrease in natural foods like eggs and animal fats, the increase in these artificial foods that we're now taking in. I'm not even arguing are animal fats good or bad for your heart, what I'm saying is we've eaten less of them than ever before and have more diseases than ever before. Michelle (12:39) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Josh Dech - CHN (12:41) And so we have to look at these correlations and go, wait a minute, something is up. Now I'm a big fan of red meat and fatty tissues. I eat a lot of fat and a lot of meat and my body's amazing, my blood is great, right? But this is what we see, microbial imbalances, toxicity from foods, from the environment, from other places. And then we have again, a dietary nutrient deficiency. So diets, 60 to 80 % of the standard American diet is processed, refined. comes from a bag, a freezer, a box or a drive -through. We have nutrients in our soil. Back in 2008, there was a study from the University of Texas who estimated you need eight oranges today to get the same level of nutrition that your great great grandmother would have out of one single orange due to tilling of the soil, the pesticides, right? Modern farming. So we have dysbiosis, which leads to toxins coming out or your toxins contribute to this as well. We have nutrient deficiencies because our food is more fake. Michelle (13:22) Yeah, crazy. Josh Dech - CHN (13:36) And then we have microbial imbalances overgrowing. No wonder your body's throwing a fit. Because since the beginning of time, whether you believe it was 5 ,000 years or 500 billion years, since the beginning of time, we've never had these issues. In fact, still today, the further away you go from the Western world, where we're eating all this food and covered in these toxins and these chemicals, the further away you go, the less disease you see. There's a direct correlation to living back naturally. Hunter gatherer tribes, they're like, what is infertility? What do mean back pain? what are arthritis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, kidney disease, liver disease, diabetes. What are those? They don't skin issues, acne. These are things we call normal. They've never seen it before. And this is why this is how we get disease. Yeah. Michelle (14:16) Yeah. That is so crazy. I mean, it's really crazy. It's crazy to think about and it's crazy that this is acceptable and that there's no regulation and nobody's really protecting the health of the people. mean, enough is enough. Like it's just so frustrating because we, because people know that it's bad. They know it and they do it anyway. And, and in many countries, many of these pesticides are banned and they know that it can impact fertility. Now they're linking a lot of them. Josh Dech - CHN (14:33) I hear you. Michelle (14:50) So it's so frustrating. It's so frustrating for me to see my patients having to climb an uphill battle just so that they can protect their reproductive health. Like it's just crazy. And also it's interesting that you were talking about how the dysbiosis has passed on from situations or conditions such as Crohn's disease. Josh Dech - CHN (15:03) Yeah. Michelle (15:15) And it's interesting because like people would say, it's inherited, it's DNA. You would think that it's kind of the DNA, but it's actually, you're saying that it's the dysbiosis that's being passed on. I'm sure there's some level of DNA, like susceptibility as well, but that's kind of an interesting take or an understanding of it...
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EP 308 Can This Natural Compound be the Key to Reversing Your Reproductive Age? Leslie Kenny
10/22/2024
EP 308 Can This Natural Compound be the Key to Reversing Your Reproductive Age? Leslie Kenny
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I speak to longevity expert Leslie Kenny. @lesliesnewprime Leslie shares her personal journey of overcoming autoimmune diseases and infertility through patient empowerment and alternative therapies. She emphasizes the importance of partnering with doctors and exploring alternative treatments that resonate with individuals. Leslie's story highlights the power of lifestyle changes, such as an anti-inflammatory diet and the use of anti-aging molecules like spermidine in improving health and reversing the aging process. Our conversation covers the topic of spermidine and its role in healthy aging. Spermidine is a compound found in our diet and produced by our gut biome. It is correlated with healthy lifespan and can be obtained from plants and fermented foods. Our conversation also touches on gluten-free options for spermidine, the importance of fiber in the diet, and the potential benefits of systemic enzymes. Leslie also shared her personal experience with hypothyroidism and the importance of finding a doctor who will help you uncover solutions for your reproductive health. Podcast Takeaways: Partnering with doctors and exploring alternative treatments can empower patients to take control of their health. Lifestyle changes, such as an anti-inflammatory diet, can have a significant impact on autoimmune diseases and overall health. Anti-aging molecules like spermidine and rapamycin have the potential to slow down the aging process and improve fertility. Maintaining a balanced hormonal system is crucial for reproductive health and overall well-being. Spermidine can promote cell renewal and recycling. Spermidine is correlated with healthy lifespan and can be obtained from plants and fermented foods. Fiber is important for the gut biome to produce spermidine. Finding a doctor who believes in you and is willing to explore your symptoms is crucial. Guest Bio: Leslie is a longevity expert, and co-founder of the prestigious Oxford Longevity Project, a non-profit that brings scientists together to discuss breakthroughs around the science of ageing and autophagy, which is our body's natural cell recycling system. - Use coupon code WHOLESOMELOTUS for 15% off all items! Learn more about my new book “The Way of Fertility” here: For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast Leslie. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (00:02) Thanks so much for having me, Michelle. It's a pleasure. Michelle (00:05) So I would love for you to share your story of how you got into the work that you do today. And I know that you're very passionate. We just had a little pre -talk and I'm very excited to get started. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (00:14) You Well, my story is one of patient empowerment, just like you. And it started, as it can with many women, with a fertility quest. So in my mid to late 30s, I really wanted to have a baby and found that I was having problems. So started with IUI, did three of those, didn't work, and then moved on to IVF. And it was as I was doing my fifth IVF round with donor eggs, I might add, and being mixed race, I'll tell you, it's not easy to find a donor, you know? And it was a high stakes game, as it were. And right before embryo transfer, I began to notice pain in my hands. I was having trouble. Michelle (00:54) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (01:08) using scissors, turning doorknobs, turning faucets. And I just thought, strange, I think this is probably what arthritis feels like. I better just have it checked out since obviously I want this IVF with donor eggs to go perfectly. And I went to the doctor, she ran some tests. I thought, you know, they'd say, you know, it's something, have steroids do something that I'd heard of before. And instead she called me and asked me to have a meeting with her in her office. Michelle (01:17) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (01:38) and always a bad sign, right? If they can't explain it to you over the phone, and if it's not the nurse telling you, there's nothing to worry about. So I went and talked to her and she said, you do have arthritis, it's rheumatoid arthritis. This is where your body is attacking your joints. And here are some pre -filled syringes that you can inject into your belly, they're immune suppressants to basically Michelle (01:40) Yeah. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (02:08) halt your immune system from attacking your body. And, and I immediately said, Hmm, don't I want my immune system to be strong? Like, don't I need that? And she said, well, normally you would, but in this case, it looks like your body is fighting cancer, except you're trying to destroy your own tissues. So I thought, okay, well, fine. Got the drugs. these are tiny diabetic needles. It'll be okay. And then she said, but you also have something else. You have lupus. And that I'd never heard of. It was almost as if she'd said, you you have funny tree disease or something. It just made no sense to me. I didn't know what it was, had never heard of it. And I said, what's that? And she said, another autoimmune disease. And I said, okay, so what's the prescription for that? And she said, unfortunately, there isn't a prescription for that. There's really nothing that we have right now to treat it. And you will slowly and progressively get worse. And I said, this is really not a good time for me to have this happen because I'm doing my fifth IVF with donor eggs. I'm waiting for embryo transfer. This is a terrible time. Can't we do something? something else, anything else? Is there anything I can do? No, there's nothing you can do. Like, could I do my diet, my sleep? No, there's nothing you can do. Well, but what about this round? You know, I've done a lot to tee this up and a lot of money has gone into this. As you probably know, I've put in over a hundred thousand US dollars at this point in time into all of these treatments. And she said, I wouldn't do it. Don't do it. you have a good five years left. And I thought, okay, well, that's a big statement to make. And I was so gobsmacked by it. Michelle (04:08) That's crazy. Wait, wait, She was saying you have five years left to live? Is that what she was saying? Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (04:16) That's how I interpreted it. That's how I interpreted that if I, if this was successful, if this round was successful, I would only be able to parent this child for five years or four years, I guess, as it were. And I, it was a lot to process. you know, if you're a patient and you're told you have one thing that's a lot to take on, you know, and then you're thinking about. the treatment protocol and the things you have to do. And I think already, if it's not a tablet to swallow, but you're injecting yourself, that's another big thing to take on board. Then an illness that you've never heard of before where they say there's no treatment, there's no cure, and then she says five years left. I'm thinking in the back of my mind, thinking, have this, I want to become a mother. I have this. cycle I have to go through, we're going to embryo transfer. My uterus has to be in good shape. What are you doing? What are you saying? How does this impact that? Because I've got acupunctures lined up for embryo transfer, right, before and after. And so I did have at least the presence of mind to say to her, can I, well, could this be a false positive? She said, no, we've done multiple types of tests. Michelle (05:11) Yeah. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (05:35) and they all come back consistently indicating that you have these diseases. So then I said, can I test again? And she said, she shrugged her shoulders and said, sure, it's your insurance. So I vowed then and there that I would test again. And in the meantime, I would do everything possible. didn't matter what it was, whether it was my in uterine massage, which I did, or visualization, which I did. Michelle (06:00) Mm -hmm. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (06:05) or trauma work, which I did, or, you know, new therapy, intravenous immunoglobulin transfusions, which I did, an anti-inflammatory diet. I was gonna do it all. I was gonna throw the kitchen sink at it. And any woman who is trying to get pregnant knows exactly where I was and that feeling of, I've gotta make this happen. And I will just pull out all the stops. We're doing a full court press, right? And... And so I did all those things and I came back within six months for a regular sort of review with your doctor. She opened the folder and she clearly not looked at the results ahead of time. And she said, well, look at that. You, don't have lupus and you don't have RA. And I said, would you like to know what I did? And she said, no, that's okay. Michelle (06:54) What? Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (07:04) And I said, well, that is, you know, that's pretty, that's pretty groundbreaking, right? Michelle (07:11) Yeah, Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (07:12) so in any event, I was so, I was so shocked by all of this and, really for me, the penny dropped that doctors don't know everything that we treat them as if they must, that they are the Oracle and that they are the, the guide to whom we can outsource our health problems. Michelle (07:23) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (07:35) But in fact, we have to work in partnership with them. And sometimes they're not willing for insurance or liability reasons to talk about or consider alternative therapies that might work. But we patients have the opportunity to explore those things that resonate with us that might have a meaningful impact. so my journey has really begun Michelle (07:38) Yes. Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (08:04) as a patient advocate, really telling other women, you have more power than you think to move the needle on your health. And as a matter of fact, the things that you do might even be more important than what happens when you go to your acute care doctor, right? When you go into the doctor's office or into a hospital. And it has then... taken me on a journey all the way to Oxford, England, where I ended up meeting a wonderful group of scientists here, a number of whom I helped fundraise for their companies for, all in the regenerative medicine space, and some of whom I've worked on longevity, healthy longevity advocacy. other scientists whom I've worked on to bring an interesting anti -aging molecule called spermidine to market. So those are the... Michelle (09:04) Yes. Is that, that's, that comes from Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (09:10) We can get it from wheat germ. We can get it from mushrooms. can get it from a huge variety of foods that are all plants. Essentially, if you want spermidine, it's almost exclusively in plants. only animal source is chicken liver, which is ironic because, of course, I remember my mother saying, you have to eat chicken liver. So moms do know, right? They've got a wisdom. Michelle (09:19) Mm Mm -hmm. Yes. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (09:36) But it comes from plant sources. We also make it in our tissues. We moms make it in our breast milk. When we give it to our babies, it's there to help them grow. Men, of course, make it in their seminal fluid. is in there because DNA wraps itself around spermidine. And it's very tightly wound. Michelle (10:00) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (10:04) Normally DNA is wrapped around something called histone bond. It's too big to really fit into semen. And it's also there in semen as an anti -inflammatory because it turns out that when men make sperm, it's a high reactive oxygen species event. Women and men can both make it in our gut biome as well. so those would be the main, the three sources would be from our tissue production. Michelle (10:27) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (10:33) And that falls, that declines dramatically similar to the decline in production of estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, melatonin as we get older. And then the second area is the microbiome and then third is from our food. Michelle (10:51) So interesting. So let's go back and talk about what, what do you think it was specifically that changed? Like, what do you think happened with your body? Because you came into the doctor and you had all the signs that showed that you had two different autoimmune diseases that she could pick up. And then you changed your diet, you changed your lifestyle. You really went through so much. and of course it's hard sometimes to figure out exactly what specifically, but now that you know what you know, and this is Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (11:03) Yeah. Yum, yum. Michelle (11:21) the work that you're doing. What are some of the things that come to mind? Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (11:22) Hmm. I went on an anti -inflammatory diet. So one of the first things I did was I researched a lot about both of these illnesses and I could see that inflammation was part of the root cause. And I'd heard about a diet called the Zone Anti -inflammatory Diet. This was popular in the early 2000s. And so I did that and that had a high emphasis on omega -3fatty acids. on extra virgin olive oil. These are anti -inflammatories. It had a high emphasis on plants. And so my diet changed dramatically from more meat and charcuterie, sort of salami, these types of things over to plants. I also eliminated things which were known to be inflammatory triggers for me. So I had an allergy test done. I could see that dairy was a problem, gluten was a problem, eggs happened to be a problem, which was a shame because I loved eggs. But we can't eat them every day and think the body won't notice. We have to kind of mix it up and have a diverse diet. So I essentially removed the inflammatory triggers to the immune system. I added in things that were naturally anti -inflammatory, like the omega -3s. And at the same time, when I did the intravenous immunoglobulin, Michelle (12:44) you Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (12:50) I reset my immune system and there were studies in, there were small groups of patients with both rheumatoid arthritis and lupus who had done IVIG already in 2004 when I was diagnosed and I could see it work for them and I sort of felt like I have nothing to lose. It's kind of this or I wait for the inevitable. And I did have people tell me, don't do the IVIG, because this was the time of mad cow disease. And people were quite concerned about prions, these proteins in blood plasma. And they were worried that you might be able to get that or hepatitis C. These were things that had been transmitted through transfusion products previously. But I still felt that, what, five years? Michelle (13:25) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (13:49) I have nothing to lose. So I'm so glad that I did do that. know that everyone has to weigh up the risk -benefit analysis of any new treatment and their own situation. But for me, that was a decision that I made, and I'm so glad I did, because I spent 20, my insurance company spent $24 ,000 US on two transfusions, eight hours in total. And I have Michelle (13:52) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (14:19) Going into remission meant that I have foregone over a million US dollars worth of immune suppressing drugs or chemo drugs because often we autoimmune patients get moved on to methotrexate, which is a chemo drug. I've not had to do any of those over these 20 years. And of course, I also don't live in pain and I don't. Michelle (14:29) Mm Right. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (14:45) live in fear of because I'm suppressing my immune system, I have to avoid social situations where people might have a cold and give it to me and compromise my immune system. So it was a fantastic outcome for me. It's not one I think a lot of people hear about, but I think they should. Michelle (15:06) for sure. I mean, it's good to hear everything. And I agree with you that everybody has to really assess their own personal situation. I think, I believe in the innate intuition that's kind of like our body's intelligence speaking to us, just like it does when we have an allergy or we feel some things off when we eat something. So I think that that is a really important component to that. And it's the thing that spoke to you when you were at your doctor's office, because it, Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (15:20) Yeah, agreed. Yeah. Michelle (15:36) You could have just said, okay, I'm going to completely bypass any questions that I have and fully just accept everything that I'm given. But something inside of you said, wait, hold up. Let me just do this again. Let me look at this. me think about this. So I really believe in that. think that is so important and important for people to hear because so often we do that. We bypass our own internal judgment and knowing. You said something important is partnering up with your provider so that it's not an all or nothing. Of course you're going to utilize and you did, you got benefit from getting those tests because that woke you up to doing so many new and amazing things in your own life and implementing a better diet and so on. As far as Omega -3 goes, this is just something that I've been hearing of late. that some of the supplements go rancid and that it makes it worse. it, have you heard about that? Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (16:36) Yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, and apparently what you need to do is take this supplement and put it into the freezer. And if it gets cloudy, that is what I've heard is that then that's not good. It's supposed to remain clear throughout. I'm not an omega -3 fatty acid expert. I have lived for a number of years, very nearby one here in Oxford, Professor John Stein. Michelle (16:45) Mm Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (17:05) who's done a lot of the research on mental health issues and omega -3s and how important they are for brain health. But yeah, I think, you know, get it from your diet first and foremost. Fatty fish is a great source, right? Yeah. Salmon, if we, you haven't already eaten all of it. Yeah. Michelle (17:18) Right. Good fish. Yeah. Wild caught, yeah. Yeah, I know. It's so crazy. Well, also just the mercury in some of the salmon, you know, the chemicals, but wild caught, I always say just. Leslie Kenny Oxford Healthspan (17:33) Yeah, wild caught. Yeah. And also anchovies, mackerel, sardines, right? The small fish are a really good source of omega -3 fatty acids. And those tend not to have the mercury. Obviously, if we're trying to get pregnant, mercury, definitely not your friend. So yeah. Michelle (17:38) Sardines, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I always say, you know, if you're not going to have it when you're pregnant and if you don't have it when you're trying to get pregnant because tuna, for example, they always caution not to have that because of the high mercury, but you don't want that in your system if you're trying to conceive. So for I...
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EP 307 Trying to Conceive After 40 | Michelle Oravitz
10/15/2024
EP 307 Trying to Conceive After 40 | Michelle Oravitz
In this episode of *The Wholesome Fertility Podcast*, I dive into the journey of trying to conceive in your 40s, focusing on how to balance realism with optimism. I debunk common myths around age and fertility, offering a comprehensive look at how aging affects reproductive health from both Western and Traditional Chinese Medicine perspectives. I’ll share practical strategies to enhance fertility naturally, including dietary adjustments, lifestyle changes, key supplements, and the power of the mind-body connection. We’ll also discuss how to navigate medical interventions like IVF, with a focus on protocols that prioritize egg quality over quantity. Whether you're just starting your fertility journey or looking to improve your chances of conceiving later in life, this episode is packed with insights, encouragement, and actionable advice to help you take control of your reproductive health. Learn more about my new book “The Way of Fertility” here: For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wholesome Fertility Podcast. I am your host, Michelle Oravitz. And today, I am going to talk about a topic that I think is so, so important. And I'm sure so many people out there are listening to this and wanting to know more. So today I'm going to talk about all things getting pregnant in your 40s. So, typically, what drives me absolutely crazy is hearing that you're considered a geriatric pregnancy once you're pregnant after age 35. So, I think that's absolutely ridiculous. And working in this field, I work with so many people either approaching 40s or after 40s and I just recently had a patient at 46 who is pregnant and thriving. So, there are so many stories out there that will definitely contradict. all of the fear and all of the questioning and the[00:01:00] doubts in women getting pregnant in their 40s. So I feel really passionate about this. If you are in your 40s and you're trying to conceive, I highly recommend you listen to this episode. So I'm going to be realistic and optimistic at the same time when it comes to getting pregnant after 40. So the realistic aspect of is, the more time you're like living and elements of the earth, you are going to have natural wear and tear. You're going to also have a natural decline in certain factors of your body. And That could be, I guess, the realistic news. However, the optimistic news is that we can actually do a lot to improve whatever it is to slow down the aging process. And we can do a lot also to improve the quality of our cells and, , Our cellular regeneration and also the energy overall chi [00:02:00] overall blood and really support our body and our body is forgiving. It has been designed to be very forgiving. It's also been designed to reproduce. So if you give it the resources. Yeah. Then it will start to heal itself, , it will replenish itself, and it'll produce better outcome when it comes to reproductive health. So as far as the realistic part, let's talk about really what happens as women age. And when it comes down to really being in your forties. Now I will kind of bust a myth here because a lot of times they say women are the only ones that have biological clocks and men don't. And that is a myth. It's absolutely not true. And as a matter of fact, nowadays, unfortunately, there's a lot going on that's also impacting sperm health, even for men in their reproductive age. So it does definitely impact, and get lower with age for men as well. So typically the things that will decline with age, [00:03:00] from a TCM perspective, traditional Chinese medicine perspective, women will definitely overall, their kidney chi, the kidneys in Chinese medicine are really, in charge of reproduction and they have very important roles from the moment the woman goes into puberty until afterwards towards the end they start to decline. So the reproductive health of the kidneys, there are two aspects of it. I've talked about this before you get pre heaven chi and post heaven chi. And so you can get The pre heaven chi is basically like genetics. It's what you're born with. It's essence that you're given really at birth. And you could look at like all the eggs that a baby has. If it's a female, it already is born with the eggs. And so all of that is there once a woman becomes more ripe, which is towards reproductive age When that aspect of her body starts to activate, some people are [00:04:00] born with a much better inheritance of qi and others have a little less. However, we also have what's called post heaven qi and post heaven qi is something that a lot of times the spleen and stomach are really in charge of and the spleen and stomach are in charge of digestion. So the things we eat, how we choose to live. The amount of stress we have in our life, because stress can really deplete a lot of the qi, the energy. , qi, by the way, is life force vitality. So, all of those things come in and play a factor on how a person's overall health and overall reproductive health is impacted. The good news, again, is that you can actually reverse your biological age. And this can depend on many different factors. And I'll talk about that as we continue. But some of the things to keep in mind is that, yes, as people age, [00:05:00] their overall ATP in the cells, which is really energy units in the cells, in the mitochondria, they lower with time. So that actually decreases. And when ATP decreases in cells, it actually decreases also the quality of the cells. And since egg cells are the largest cell in a woman's body, it's really important that they are robust with healthy mitochondria so that they can create a lot more ATP energy units because it takes a lot of energy to conceive. It takes a lot of energy for the egg to fertilize with the sperm to create a healthy embryo because it's a lot of force. And if you look at any seeds, really any seeds anywhere, and this is why eating seeds is actually so beneficial because seeds have a lot of what we call Jing. [00:06:00] Jing is essence. And so that essence is basically very similar to conception. Because seeds have everything they need, all the nutrients kind of sitting there and their potential is there for growth. So they're primed and ready with the right environment to grow and sprout. So that is why one of the things we often suggest is to is to eat lots of seeds and people use seed cycling and I say either seed cycling or just eating seeds, either way you are going to get that essence and that jing through food. So your digestive health is really important as far as taking that quality and translating them into your eggs and translating them into your cells, essentially. And also over time as the egg quality declines, that impacts how much the follicles will grow, and it can impact the follicular [00:07:00] phase of the menstrual cycle, which is the first phase of the menstrual cycle from the time a woman gets her period. up until the time she ovulates and little by little that time can decrease and that can also be a reflection of how the follicles are growing and if they're maturing enough and it typically can decline with age. Another thing that can decline is also the progesterone. So from either not ovulating or also from just the quality of the eggs because the outside of the follicle is the corpus luteum. So when the egg comes out of the follicle, what's left over is the corpus luteum, which is where the progesterone comes from earlier on. And if a woman gets pregnant, that progesterone will last for a few months until the placenta starts to provide the progesterone. If a woman is low in progesterone, she may need to get excess. [00:08:00]progesterone extra from her doctor, or sometimes people try to do it bioidentical. So there are definitely many things that a woman can try and many interventions that she can try in order to help her conceive if she's at a later maternal age. However, I've seen people conceive naturally at a later maternal age after 40 by implementing many lifestyle changes, including which really is at the heart of everything is supplements and diet, but died even more than supplements. And so if you have, say food sensitivities or you're, experiencing digestive discomfort or digestive issues that's going to impact the supplement absorption. So it doesn't really matter if you don't take care of your gut health. It doesn't even matter what kind of supplements you have. And yes, maybe it's going to make a little bit of a dent, but it's not going to be as effective as if you get your digestive [00:09:00] system in order. So what are things that can impact egg quality? So My suggestions here are multifold. I mean, there's so many different things that I can suggest, but I'm going to suggest the big ones that I think are the most crucial. And omega 3 fatty acids and antioxidants are really, really, really crucial. When it comes to egg quality, getting those healthy fats and healthy fats, like really, really good healthy fats, omega 3 fatty acids less omega 6, which are pro inflammatory, you want anti inflammatory, you want antioxidants, and really, an anti inflammatory diet would be the best bet when it comes to egg quality. So you want a lower inflammation because higher inflammation can decrease egg quality. You want to remove things like sugar, processed foods. All of those things can impact [00:10:00] inflammation, but it also can impact your gut and you want a good healthy microbiome so that you're able to really translate what's in the food, even if you're eating right into the nourished energy and the chi and the life force and the blood that will support egg quality. You also want a healthy exercise routine. So you want like a good opportunity for your body to get oxygen because oxygen plays a really important role when it comes to increasing the ATP and the energy units in the body and exercise as well. So if you over exercise, so here's the key over exercising, you're going to deplete your energy under exercising, you're going to deplete your energy being in a healthy BMI, a healthy weight. is the most ideal. So the ideal BMI for getting pregnant is between 18. 5 and 24. 9. It's known as the healthy range. Anything lower or anything higher can contribute to a more [00:11:00] deficient state, believe it or not, even having excess and having a higher weight can be deficient because your body's carrying the weight and it's not using the energy properly. Sunlight also impacts melatonin in your cells. So believe it or not, even though melatonin is something that many people take and it's used at night or it's Considered something that impacts sleep. It also impacts the cells and works as an antioxidant and One of the ways to do it is by taking supplements But I would definitely suggest getting sunlight early in the morning, because if you get sunlight early in the morning, your cells will start to make cellular melatonin, and that can impact your egg quality as well. Another thing that we know can really act as an anti ager is meditation. By meditating, you can actually slow down and reverse your biological age. There many studies that show. that there's so [00:12:00]many physiological improvements that can happen from meditation, but not just meditating things like yoga as well. Things that really calm the nervous system, like even chanting has been shown to have many beneficial aspects, but it also. Can increase nitric oxide chanting does. So there are a lot of things that you can do that are free and really are so minimal. Like it doesn't even take that much time out of your day that can improve and reverse your biological age. Meditation has been shown to help people live longer, it increases well being, and it also works on your emotions. And believe it or not, emotions are actually pretty high maintenance, especially difficult emotions. If you think about it, it really uses up a lot of energy, so it's not a energy efficient aspect of us. Now, it does happen from time to time and it's normal to have those emotions, no doubt, but[00:13:00] if you have it chronically, it can really, really deplete the energy of the body. Think about times where you've had a very heightened sense of emotion or a difficult day and you've really, really, it got the best of you. Think about how depleting it was and how depleted you felt. Sometimes people need to sleep just to kind of overcome all of the emotions and all of the drain that it's given them so emotions can be really, really taxing, but then on the other hand, elevated emotions can actually provide more energy. So things like laughter are really healthy. I oftentimes tell people to do that, especially before transfers, because if you are getting a transfer, it's been shown to help the transfer stick. So laughter therapy, if it helps with transfers. It really helps with everything else. It was just one study on that, but laughter is healthy in general. So watching [00:14:00] things like comedies will take the edge off of the fertility journey, just to have a little break mentally because we know that it can be really, really taxing and difficult as it is. So I always say, if you're going to have those things happen or things that are challenging that you're dealing with, you obviously can't take that away because it's just part of life and it's part of the process. But what you can do is counteract it with other tools and other things that you can least bounce out or alleviate or take the load off. And I highly suggest laughter therapy. That's huge. But also exercise and yoga, things that really calm the nervous system, because it helps you sleep. And sleep is another really, really important factor that can also help with age related fertility conditions. So getting sleep is incredibly nurturing. It also helps your body organize and balance hormones. It's so important to get your [00:15:00] overall chi increased, which think ATP, think about your mitochondria, your cells, rejuvenation. Sleep is incredibly important. The key with sleep is not to have too much sleep and not to have too little. So about eight to nine hours or seven to nine hours, ideally eight would be great. Supplements you might want to consider are a good prenatal supplement, omega 3s, vitamin C and E, because they're high in antioxidants, but sometimes the prenatals have a good amount. Glutathione is really important, NAC and please don't take this as medical advice. Definitely speak to somebody about, you know, Taking this because it's not for everybody, not all supplements are for everybody. It really is dependent on your unique circumstance and you can also get your DHEA. tested to see if it's low because many women after 40 can [00:16:00] benefit from taking DHEA depending on their condition. For some people, it can have an adverse effect if it's too high. So it's important to really look at it because it is a hormone. If you are considering IVF, My suggestion is to inquire about a lower dosage protocol because from what I've learned from speaking to other practitioners and also speaking to my patients and seeing people doing a lot better, women who have a lower reserve may do better with lower medication protocols because it works more on the quality than the quantity. Because if you try to work on the quantity, then the quantity is already low. So it's better for fewer eggs to take in the medication and grow. And from what I've seen. People have done better with that. if they have [00:17:00] lower reserve. But again, this is a question for your doctor. You want to make sure that they're on board. You may want to get multiple opinions and see what everybody thinks, because you'll find different opinions on everything when it comes to fertility and when it comes to doctors. And lastly, you want to also track your cycle. And I wouldn't just do it with LH sticks because LH sticks are just going to show your brain wants to get your body to ovulate, but it doesn't really confirm ovulation. I highly recommend trying BBT charting for at least two months. I have a couple of episodes on that. If you want to look into different methods that you can choose to track your fertile window, you could check out episode number 299. I cover many different ways to track it, how to track it and ways that are a little more convenient than just doing the BBT, which I do highly still recommend to at least to do it for two [00:18:00] months. The important thing is really to understand it and to understand your fertile window and really understand what is happening and when you are most fertile. It could help you also in understanding whether you need to address the follicular phase or the luteal phase or what's happening because if your luteal phase is short or the temperature is too low, that could be possibly significant in showing that you have low progesterone and something that you might want to mention to your doctor or your natural health practitioner. So those are all things that you want to know. If you do have any questions, I am very active on Instagram. You can DM me and my handle is at the wholesome Lotus fertility. Thank you so much for tuning in today and I hope that you found this information helpful. If you have any other ideas or topics, again, feel free to DM me on Instagram and thank you so much for tuning in. I hope you have a [00:19:00] beautiful day.
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EP 306 The Profound Power of Movement and How it can Support Conception | Desiree Bartlett
10/08/2024
EP 306 The Profound Power of Movement and How it can Support Conception | Desiree Bartlett
On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Desi Barlett! Desi shares her background and how she got into supporting women through life's transitions. She explains kinesiology and its connection to yoga and the body's movements. Desi discusses the importance of releasing emotions stored in the body and the three common areas where tension is held: hips, shoulders, and jaw. She also highlights the significance of starting the day with intention and meditation. Episode Takeaways Kinesiology is the study of the human body and its movements, and it can be used to support women through various life transitions. Emotions are often stored in the body, particularly in the hips, shoulders, and jaw. Releasing tension in these areas can lead to emotional and physical well-being. Meditation and breathwork are powerful tools for maintaining and cleansing the mind and body. They can help release emotional weight and provide clarity and focus. Starting the day with intention and proactive decision-making can set the tone for a successful and fulfilling day. Starting the day with a morning ritual and setting intentions can lead to success in all areas of life. Traumatic events can lead to finding one's calling and purpose in life. Connecting with the heart and the uterus is important for fertility and conception. Listening and being heard are essential for healing and creating a supportive environment. Desi offers resources and support for women on their fertility journey. Guest Bio: Desi Bartlett MS, CPT E-RYT, is passionate about sharing the joy of movement. With over 25 years of experience in health and wellness, she holds a bachelor’s degree in kinesiology, a master’s degree in corporate fitness, and is currently pursuing a doctoral degree in exercise science. Originally from Chicago, Desi is also a proud mother of two and an internationally published author. Desi is currently launching an innovative subscription platform, Desibodymind.com, offering a holistic approach to health and wellness through meditation, yoga, and fitness. At the heart of her philosophy is the belief in the interconnectedness of mind and body. As a women’s health expert with advanced certifications in yoga, personal training, prenatal and postnatal fitness, and group fitness, Desi has garnered a roster of private clients that includes household names like Ashley Tisdale, Adam Levine, Kate Hudson, and many more. Her expertise has been showcased on major networks such as ABC, NBC, FOX, Univision, Hallmark, and Lifetime. Desi's influence extends beyond her client base through multiple online classes including DailyOM, Beachbody, and iFit. She is also the author of Your Strong, Sexy Pregnancy: a Yoga and Fitness Guide, a comprehensive guide and co-author of Total Body Beautiful: Secrets to Looking and Feeling Your Best After Age 35. Now, Desi brings her wealth of knowledge and experience to Desibodymind.com, where individuals can access transformative content designed to strengthen both their physical bodies and mental well-being. Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or new to the world of holistic health, Desi's platform offers something for everyone. Join Desi, who lives on the picturesque island of Oahu, on a journey to cultivate strength from the inside out. www. desibodymind.com Instagram is @mothersintolivingfit and @desibodymind For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Desi. Desi (00:03) Thank you so much. Aloha from Hawaii. This is a beautiful morning over here on the island and I'm so happy to connect with you. Michelle (00:11) I absolutely love Hawaii, by the way. Been there, it's so magical. I have to say, I really miss it now. We've been there like two years ago and I can't wait to come back. So I'd love to hear your background. What got you started in this work that you do? Desi (00:29) So my mother was a hippie and she was a disciple of Goswami Kriyananda at the Temple of Kriya Yoga in Chicago. So I grew up with meditation and yoga since the time I was six years old. When I was in college, I got really deep into fitness and I pursued two degrees. I've got my degree in kinesiology and my master's in corporate fitness. And actually I'm on the brink of getting my PhD right now. I'm also in kinesiology. And so I've just been Michelle (00:37) Love that. Awesome. Desi (00:58) extremely passionate about helping women through all transitions of life for many years. I have two children and I know that pregnancy and fertility especially can be such a journey. So it's my pleasure, my privilege, my honor to really support women through all of life's changes. Michelle (01:18) Amazing. First of all, I actually took a little and found it to be fascinating. So I'd love to actually start there for people who have never heard of it. would love for you to share it for somebody who's like never heard of it before and Desi (01:33) kinesiology is all about the study of the human body. And what we look at is biomechanics and you know, like what muscle is specifically working when you're moving your arm, let's say zero to 45 degrees and then 45 to 90 degrees, et cetera. And so what I've learned is not only anatomy and physiology and really understanding the body from the inside out, Michelle (01:47) you Desi (01:57) but how the body moves. So when you layer that on with yoga and all of the esoteric teachings, it's so fascinating to me because what I'm seeing now is that what the yogis have been teaching quite literally for millennia is what we're discovering today. So for example, when we talk about something like yoga nidra, which is yogic sleep, when we go into progressive relaxation, Michelle (02:17) Yes. Desi (02:26) So for example, some of your listeners might've enjoyed a meditation where you close your eyes, slow your breath down, relax your feet, let that feeling of relaxation move to your ankles, and you go through the entire body. What we know now is that there are specific physiological processes that are happening inside of your body that promote this relaxation and restoration on a cellular level. So on the one hand, I'm full blown science nerd, and on the other hand, I'm like super duper hippie. And when I can prove one with the other, it lights me up. Michelle (03:04) I totally get it. Say no more. Because I feel the same way. And you know what's really cool? The more I'm doing this, the more I have guests on the podcast, the more I'm realizing, wow, we're actually at a place that we've wanted to go for so long. And people always thought that science had to be completely different from spirituality, that the two could not connect. But I'm seeing more and more that they're actually connecting in a beautiful way. Desi (03:33) Absolutely. And I think that really also speaks to what you do and what you offer women so beautifully as well in terms of acupuncture. And know, when we're starting to understand like in yoga, we call them natties, the energy lines, we're starting to understand that there's a reason that people have been talking about this for so many years and it's because it really works. Michelle (03:49) Mm Desi (03:57) So when we're able to bring this knowledge and education to women, especially on a fertility journey, I think it can be such a gift because it's not woo woo, know, there's actual science that's involved. And so if I'm asking you like, hey, let's take this step together and let me support you. I'm doing so from a place of feeling like I can actually help empower you. This isn't just us wishing. Michelle (03:57) Mm Love that. That's beautiful. I really love that. So talk to me about kinesiology, like what got you into it and how can you bridge that or like use that in your teachings and your practices? Desi (04:37) I went to ASU and I was originally a broadcasting major and I had a dance class and I noticed that my knee hurt all of the time. And so I went to the university doctor and he said to me, he's like, no problem, you are not injured. You just need to strengthen your quads. And I said, what's a quad? And so he explained to me and his fate would have it that very evening I met second place Miss Olympia on campus. And I was telling her what was going on. And she's like, all good, girl. I've got you. I'm going to take you to the gym. She introduced me to the leg extension. And I fell in love with fitness. And my joke is that that evening I walked into the gym and I never left. So what I've learned is that you can strengthen your muscles, your joints, your connective tissue. But while you're in the gym or on a yoga mat, we're also strengthening our minds. In order to push through that next rep or to lift the heavier weight, something is happening in our minds as well. We're making a decision to commit to the next level. And I truly believe that that's all applicable to our daily lives. When we feel stronger and our bodies and our minds, we can take that strength, that power into everything that we do with a sense of confidence. Like if I can lift that 200 pound whatever, of course I can take this conference call. We're good. Michelle (06:02) totally. I always say that. I mean, the challenges and sometimes I'll take a course or an exercise class and, and I'm like, my God, I'm dying. like, I love taking the class because I feel so much more motivated when I have a teacher and the teacher's like, I know this is hard, but get through it, go to your breath, you know, and then it gets me to my breath. And I'm like, okay, focus on my breath. And it makes you strong. internally, like you learn to deal with things that are not easy. So I 100 % agree with what you just said. I totally feel that way myself. not just that, I am so fascinated by connecting with the body. somatic therapy, where it really, you connect with your body in order to process emotions and to process Desi (06:45) Yes. Michelle (06:50) your internal state. I mean, there's so much more to that than what I'm explaining because that's not specifically my specialty, but it's really fascinating to me because I've learned more and more as I'm doing this. And even with what I do that we process emotions physically a lot more than we think. We think it's all up here in our minds, but it really so much of it is in our bodies. And actually when we do get into our bodies, That is how we're able to manage them more easily. And it doesn't feel as overwhelming as when we're thinking about them or just staying in that mindset. Desi (07:31) Amen. So somatic therapy, remember reading about it the first time probably about, my goodness, 30 years ago, there's a wonderful book by Barbara Brennan. If I remember correctly, I think it's called Hands of Light. And she was a nurse, if I remember correctly, and working with people, and noticed that when she would touch certain parts of their body, it would trigger a memory. It would trigger an emotional response in many cases. Michelle (07:43) Mm Desi (07:56) Way back when, when I was like a little baby fitness teacher, I remember working as a personal trainer in Chicago. This is like 1996. And I would, I would touch people to stretch them, you know, like just relax your trapezius or let me help you with your hamstring stretch. And I felt and experienced and saw the same thing. When you're that close to someone's energy body. you can almost feel or I can feel the memory. And I'm like, whoa, what was that? But I didn't have the tools at that time to say, know, enjoy a very deep breath. Let's let it go. And let's let that experience be sort of like a cloud and just let it move on by. We don't have to attach to it. In yoga, we have a technique called neti, neti, neti. I am not this thought. I am not this body. I am not this experience. Michelle (08:30) Interesting. Desi (08:52) You're the one who's all the way behind all that, right? So now I have the tools to help women especially and empower them. So when there's been trauma, we can talk about it when necessary, especially if I'm working with your body. The body is such a sacred space and it's our temple. So if I have the privilege and the honor of helping to guide your body, of course I'm going to approach it with a deep sense of reverence. Michelle (08:56) Right. Desi (09:19) And any feeling or emotion that's popping up, we'll say hello to it. We'll see where it comes from, if it needs to be explored more. But let's also start to focus on what is the intention? What do you want to feel today? So if you're waking up with a feeling of like chaos and my gosh, and I'm not sure what the next move is, and I've got this whole to -do list, and I've got this and that, and on and on and on, and the mind is spinning. Well, where do we want to go? Is the intention perhaps? grounding and then I can help you start to ground and breathe and feel your lower body and so when things come up we can absolutely talk about that and move through it but let's also be really really focused on where we're going so we're not getting lost in a constant loop of what was. Michelle (10:08) Mm And do you see that a lot with the people that you're working with where they have like a real release or something old comes out when they're stretching in a certain way or they're a lot of times in the hips I hear that a lot of people hold a lot of tension in their hips and emotions there as well. Desi (10:27) Yes. So three places in the body that tend to store a lot. Number one, as you said, in the hips, specifically the psoas, the hip flexors tend to hold a lot of old tension around fight or flight. So I know you and I have spoken before about fight or flight. Think about it, Michelle, if you're if you're getting ready to like either dig in and fight or just hightail it out of there, what activates the hip flexors? Because that's what activates what you're going to run. or when you're going to stay and squat and push. So it's totally normal to. Michelle (10:56) Right. Desi (11:01) the body or for the body to tell us rather, hey, I need to release all this because I didn't even use it. You know, I realized I was only on the 405 freeway. I didn't need to fight or flee. It was just my body spinning out because there was so much stress. So that's where something like yoga comes in and deep hip openers and release. And we can let all of that go. But getting back to my original Michelle (11:09) Bye. Right. Desi (11:28) point, the other two places in the body where we tend to store particular emotions, and this isn't one size fits all, you you might experience one thing somewhere else in the body, totally normal. But generally speaking as human beings, the second place where we tend to store it is in the shoulders. And so especially in our modern day like tech neck kind of world, you kind of notice that the voice goes up and the shoulders go up when we get stressed. Michelle (11:46) Mm Desi (11:55) And that also has to do with like fear and anxiety. So we're carrying quite literally the weight of the world on our shoulders. So we can start to release that and relax the trapezius and breathe into that. And then the third and final common place for us to store a lot of muscular tension is in the jaw. And pound for pound, this is like the strongest part of the body, which is crazy. Michelle (12:17) Mm Desi (12:23) That's why when we grind our teeth, can quite literally take bone through bone because it's so strong. So this is usually related to words left unspoken, needing to speak your truth, let it out. And how many times in this lifetime have we been told like, just it won't serve you to tell your boss off or that kind of thing. Yes, that's true. But when and where do we actually get to release it? Michelle (12:24) That is pretty crazy. Desi (12:52) Have you gone for a walk this morning and just, just let it all go with a great big exhale? It can help. I'm of Mexican ancestry, I'm Mexican and Russian. And I remember when I lived in Mexico, I learned the expression, ay un dicho, caerita te ves mas bonita. It means when you're quiet, you look prettier. And so there's this messaging around like, it in. And so I'm here to tell you like, Michelle (12:55) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, get it out. It's true. It's true. I've been a meditator for a while and I think that I think everybody should at least try it because there's so much benefit to going internally because it really connects you to listening to your body and listening to what's going on. And of course too many meditators will understand this. think if they hear this, Desi (13:20) Let it out. Michelle (13:43) is that you get a lot of downloads. actually allows for an opportunity for a lot of intuitive downloads. And unless you really allow yourself that space, you may not realize that. But I think a lot of people who everybody that I've talked to that meditates is like, my God, that happens to me. So, so therefore my conclusion is that when you sit and meditate, you do get intuitive hits and downloads. And so one of the things that came to me Desi (14:01) Definitely. Michelle (14:12) is it's like maintaining and cleansing. It's like you need to maintain your mind and your body by cleansing and releasing often just like you do anything else, even in your household, even the oil in your car, everything, even your body when you're releasing waste. I you need to release energetically. And I think that's something that is so often ignored. And people could just get in a habit of holding and holding and holding. And it's almost like emotional constipation. Like you literally are holding it in. I know I'm really great with analogies, but you really like literally are holding it in. And so, they say kind of like you're holding so much weight and holding onto so much of the past or things that are holding you back, it's true. Like there's really truth in that. And so sometimes when I get quiet, that's when I start to feel, I'm holding a lot. I wasn't even aware of that. And I think that that's what is so beautiful specifically with yoga, because yoga is movement and meditation and mindfulness at the same time and breath work, which is a whole other thing, because in the breath work, you can release so much as well. Desi (15:27) Amen, yes. So meditation is sort of like brushing your teeth. It's something that we can do daily and it's a cleanse as you were saying. And so if we can simply take the time to connect, I like to share with folks that you can do it first thing in the morning. So when you first wake up in the morning, before you even open your eyes, slow the breath down and perhaps you even go back into the dream state and just ask yourself, your higher self, show me, show me, show me. What am I meant to do today? What is the dream of my life and how can I take the next step? What is the right next step? And let it reveal itself to you. So in the same way that we have this muscular body and all of the beautiful processes that are happening every day, obviously, of course, we have the vital organs. And it's so interesting to me because the yogis...
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EP 305 Is Inflammation Getting in the Way of Your Fertility? | Sarah Wilson
10/01/2024
EP 305 Is Inflammation Getting in the Way of Your Fertility? | Sarah Wilson
On tomorrow’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Dr. Sarah Wilson of @drsarah_nd. Dr. Sarah Wilson shares her personal journey with reproductive health and how she overcame challenges with her period and fertility. She emphasizes the importance of understanding one's own body and advocating for oneself in the medical system. Dr. Wilson discusses the role of the immune system and gut health in reproductive health, highlighting the connection between inflammation, gut bacteria, and hormonal balance. She explains how basic blood work can provide valuable insights into one's health and offers practical tips for addressing gut health issues. Dr. Sarah Wilson discusses the importance of gut health and its impact on overall well-being. She explains how the gut microbiome plays a crucial role in maintaining a healthy immune system and how imbalances in the microbiome can lead to various health issues. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the need to create a hospitable environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive and shares insights on the use of probiotics and spore-based organisms. Dr. Wilson provides practical tips for improving gut health, such as eating whole foods, avoiding processed foods, and managing stress. Guest Bio: On today’s episode of The Wholesome Fertility Podcast, I welcome Dr. Sarah Wilson, ND. Dr. Sarah Wilson discusses the importance of gut health and its impact on overall well-being. She explains how the gut microbiome plays a crucial role in maintaining a healthy immune system and how imbalances in the microbiome can lead to various health issues. Dr. Wilson emphasizes the need to create a hospitable environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive and shares insights on the use of probiotics and spore-based organisms. Dr. Wilson provides practical tips for improving gut health, such as eating whole foods, avoiding processed foods, and managing stress. Takeaways: Advocate for yourself and seek answers when faced with reproductive health challenges. Understanding the role of the immune system and gut health is crucial for reproductive health. Basic blood work can provide valuable insights into one's health and help identify patterns and tendencies. Addressing gut health issues, such as inflammation and imbalances in gut bacteria, can positively impact reproductive health. Maintaining a healthy gut microbiome is essential for overall well-being and a strong immune system. Creating a hospitable environment for beneficial bacteria to thrive is crucial for gut health. The gut-brain connection and the enteric nervous system play a significant role in gut health. Managing stress, eating whole foods, and avoiding processed foods are important for improving gut health. Dr. Sarah Wilson, ND, is the visionary founder of Advanced Women's Health, leading a healthcare revolution across Canada with clinics in Ontario and British Columbia. Overcoming her own health challenges, Sarah is dedicated to empowering women to reclaim their vitality naturally, merging research-backed expertise with her passion for Naturopathic Medicine. Beyond her professional pursuits, she is the Mom to two latino boys under 5 and is a self-proclaimed personal development and mindset fanatic. www.advancedwomenshealth.ca Instagram: @drsarah_nd @advancedwomenshealthclinics For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Wilson. Sarah Wilson (00:02) Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited. I just really can't get enough of sharing all of the information that women need about reproductive health and empowerment. So thank you for having me. Michelle (00:14) Love it. So I'd love for you to share your background and how you got into the work with reproductive health. Sarah Wilson (00:21) It's such a huge conversation, I think such an important one because for so many of us, we get into it because we needed the medicine, right? And we explored that. So my story I always say is a really winding one. I was in and out of hospital my whole life until I was 18 and I was diagnosed with celiac disease, but I didn't fit the bill. And it was a naturopathic doctor that really pushed for that initial diagnosis. And so then, as we all do, Michelle (00:28) Mm -hmm, yeah. Mm -hmm. Sarah Wilson (00:49) I avoided my calling and was trying to figure out how to recover and how to work within this and lost my period for almost five years. And so during this time, I was a researcher and I was seeing different naturopathic doctors. I was seeing different conventional doctors and specialists and people just kept saying they didn't know what was going on and they couldn't figure out why I was, like I wasn't exceptionally lean during much of that period of time. Like they just couldn't piece it together. Michelle (00:58) wow. Sarah Wilson (01:18) I had a doctor, think it was 21, 22, that was like, you might never have kids on your own. If you wanna get pregnant, come back to me, I'll give you a pill, we'll wish you the best. Michelle (01:28) So nonchalant. Sarah Wilson (01:31) And I just, I always say there's a few breakdown to breakthrough moments in my life and that was a big one where I was just like, absolutely not. I have the world available to me. I have all of this research. There must be something I can figure out. So that proceeded to really get me to push to work and find the research and piece things together. And I did bring back my period. And then when it came back, it was exceptionally painful. I was passing out. I had been on birth control. Michelle (01:37) Mm -hmm. Yeah, good. Mm -hmm. Sarah Wilson (02:00) since I was 13 because of the amount of pain and heaviness. And so that's what it was like, okay, now we have to navigate this world of endometriosis and what that means. so yeah, now fast all the way forward, I became an astrophysicist doctor. I have two babies with two tries. I do not live in chronic pain and I'm just so passionate about taking all that research. I had to figure out myself and... Michelle (02:09) Mm Mm Mm Sarah Wilson (02:26) had to bring into practice and navigate how to bring into practice to now be able to give that to patients across advanced women's health clinics in Canada. it's just, it's a very empowering end to a really challenging journey, which I think so many people listening have. Michelle (02:44) Yeah, for sure. What I love about what you were saying is that knowing that inner knowing you're like, no, absolutely not. Like you knew it in your heart. Because a lot of people hear that. And then they're like, okay, I guess that's just my fate. And I love, you know, I love when people are like, no, I'm gonna take no for an answer. I'm gonna figure it out. and it's also an intuition. It's like your own intelligence within you telling you, no, there's more to look into. I had a similar thing a little different, but similar. so what was it, let's kind of go back just because people might be in similar situations with their period, listening to this. What was it that really caused the five years without period? was it being on a pill for a long time? What was it that caused that? Sarah Wilson (03:29) So I was actually, my presentation of celiac disease was very different. I was 100 pounds heavier than I am now. I perfectly, I exercised and I was obese. And so what, the brain is such a beautiful thing. And what I believe happened is that being obese, going through puberty programmed my brain for what body fatness, quote unquote, I needed to have in order to be safe to have a baby. Michelle (03:36) Mm Mm Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Sarah Wilson (03:59) And so for most people, they lose their periods around 16, 18 % body fat. I tend to hover around 23, 24. If I dip below that, then my period starts to go as long, it goes wonky. It's much better now, but the research suggests that when you have inflammation interacting with your brain, when you have cortisol interacting with your brain, what happens is we actually change how sensitive we are to the signals between the brain and the ovaries. Michelle (04:08) Mm Mm Sarah Wilson (04:28) And so I think that in combination with all these set point theories, there's so many things happening now in the world of set points, that combination is what it was. So for me, getting my inflammation under control, which we'll talk about, getting an understanding that I had stress, but it was physiological stress. I had nutrient deficiencies, I had bacterial overgrows, I had inflammation, like I had all of those pieces. that were interacting with my brain and my hormones. And so I just needed to go through step by step. I needed to work on my gut microbiome. I needed to work on the nervous system component. But fundamentally, I needed to understand that my body, the way it works and its sensitivity is set at a slightly different point than other people's. Michelle (05:18) Yeah, well, for sure. I mean, I think that that's really at the crux of everything is that everybody has their own different set point and different like, you know, responses, their bodies respond to different foods, different environments, different stress factors, just so many things. And I think that that's the key. I often see a lot of people sometimes come in to see me and they're well, I'm taking this kind of like, combination herbs that I saw online or, you know, so, that's, that's one of the things that I really try to stress to people is that everybody's so different. And so when you were going through that, you were uncovering it. Obviously you had a natural path that you were working with. Yeah, multiple. So they, you had a team. Sarah Wilson (05:58) And multiple. Yeah, absolutely. And I think I always say I'm the most energetic scientist you'll ever meet in your whole life. Like data informs every single decision. And then you sit in front of the person in front of you and you say, OK, what's their energy? Right. Like what? How do you need to to build those things together? And so, yeah, I had a team I had. Michelle (06:09) Mm Mm right. Totally. Sarah Wilson (06:23) And I had multiple naturopathic doctors try to work their way through it. I had OB -GYNs and my family healthcare team trying to help navigate it. And it was just, I was in the typical situation. I was in the situation that 90 % of my patients are in. Everyone's like, you're fine. It's fine. Your blood work is fine. Right? And that's, think, even for me doing research, one of the projects I was on was we were studying metabolically healthy people, metabolically unhealthy people. Michelle (06:41) Right, exactly. Yeah. Sarah Wilson (06:52) We were studying them in lean and obese categories. And so the labs going through and they're pulling all this data. And it was the first time that I'm sitting there going, huh, okay. So we can have people that are metabolically very healthy and overweight. And we can have people that are very lean and extremely metabolically unhealthy. And this was, it was such a formative experience because I remember sitting there going. Michelle (06:55) Mm Mm -hmm, right. Sarah Wilson (07:20) The blood work, the way we're reading it right now means nothing. Right? Like we need to be rude. Michelle (07:25) There's so much more. It's just a snapshot. It's like a small, it's a small little slice. And I think that's something that I often see too, is that we make such generalized assumptions based on such a small little snapshot. And while that snapshot is very important, it's, it's kind of a piece to the puzzle. It's not the end all be all it's part of the whole picture. Sarah Wilson (07:28) Exactly. Exactly, and if we use a conventional reference range that's defined based on disease, like I think in North America, we've really lost the understanding that there's a line between health and disease. Like you don't just jump from one to the other like long jump, right? It's not like I'm healthy today and tomorrow I have a disease. Like there's this spectrum of dis -ease as we make our way to a condition. And I think identifying patterns in labs. and identifying tendencies is arguably more important than the snapshot itself, you're 100 % correct. And so we have to look at that data holistically and say, how is that changing? How is that modifying over time? But also I think there's so much research now where we can give people back the keys to the castle with that basic blood work, right? Even for example, everyone has had what we call a complete blood count. We've had multiple of them. So that's... A complete blood count is when we're looking at your red blood cells and your white blood cells. We're looking at the breakdown of those things. It's the thing you get when you walk into the doctor's office, when you get when you walk into the hospital, et cetera. They're always just saying, what's your white blood cells? What's your red blood cells doing, et cetera. And there's two white blood cells called neutrophils and lymphocytes. They are just representing two aspects of our immune system that are fighting bacteria and viruses and they're helping to support the system. But there is a ton of research coming out to show that the ratio between neutrophil and lymphocytes can tell us about the inflammatory status of the body. So if your NLR, as we call it, neutrophil to lymphocyte ratio, is higher than 2 .5 or 3, chances are you've got an immunological underpinning to what's going on. And so for me with endometriosis, I was in the hospital a while ago now, and I was having a flare, and I was worried about ovarian torsion, because at one point I had had a 10 centimeter endometrial. Michelle (09:30) Mm -hmm. Sarah Wilson (09:40) like it was very, very large and it's not there now, but I just wanted to go in and make sure that there wasn't something happening because it felt different. And my NLR was six, but outside of that, it was one or two. So this is something I always say to patients, you can even empower yourself just looking at that number and being like, if that number is jumping high and it's correlating with my symptoms, if I have worse menstrual pain or worse mood challenges or Michelle (09:42) Mm -hmm. Mm Mm Mm -hmm. Sarah Wilson (10:08) I get pregnant and these things jump and then I have a loss, what could that be telling you about your immune system? And I think there's such simple things. Of course, we can run super comprehensive panels of labs and get all of the autoimmune tests. And like I've heard you talk about them on the podcast before, right? You can get really comprehensive panels and that's wonderful. And I love that as a doctor and a researcher, I love data. But what I love even more is saying, let's look at the past two or three years. Michelle (10:26) Mm Mm Right. Sarah Wilson (10:37) What are these basic blood markers telling us about your tendencies and how much we need to dig into different components of health, like your immune system, your blood sugar, those types of things? Michelle (10:48) So you could see this basically on just general blood work. Sarah Wilson (10:53) Exactly. And so that's where I think for me. Michelle (10:55) And do people often look like, do doctors even know to look for that specific thing? So it's kind of one of those things that people don't really look for, but you can kind of dig up your own stuff and just look at the ratio yourself. Sarah Wilson (11:07) Exactly. Exactly. And that's why I think I come on these podcasts and I do these things because not everyone has access to a naturopathic doctor. Not everyone can be a researcher. Exactly. So to be able to look at that and start to question, even when I was in the hospital, I was like, are you concerned about that? And they're like, maybe you have a bacterial infection. It's not a big deal. Okay. Okay. Right? But it's... Michelle (11:16) Yeah, that's very empowering. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Sarah Wilson (11:30) It's those things that I want people to be able to grab onto and access for themselves because what I know to be true in my practice, seeing so many people, is when you give women access to information about their bodies, they change communities, households, everything. Like it is the most empowering thing for me to come on a podcast and talk about something and then... Michelle (11:46) Mm Yeah. Sarah Wilson (11:57) get someone message me and be like, my friend of a friend of a friend told me to look at this and now I'm concerned about it. And I'm like, yeah, you should probably get that investigated. And then it's ovarian cancer. You know what I mean? Like this is how powerful just these conversations are. Michelle (12:08) my God, yeah. Yeah, it's very powerful. mean, obviously when you do see that something's off, it'll get you at least to take the next steps or to investigate it more because you can't really make, you know that something's going on, but you have to like really move further and see what it is. But at least it's going to be an alarm to let you know something's going on. Sarah Wilson (12:35) Mmm. And a direction, right? I, every day, pretty much at this point, I'm talking to someone who's like, everything I was told was unexplained, right? And in the fertility world, if you're unexplained infertility, you either have a baby or you don't, right? So there's clarity in that, no one's saying, your infertility is in your head. But in every other aspect, there's not those clear end points. And so, Michelle (12:40) Mm Mm -hmm. Mm Sarah Wilson (13:07) if someone's dealing with chronic pain and they aren't getting investigated for endometriosis or some other condition, they can be told it's all in their head. So even if they can see on basic blood work, one or two things that are off, it's like, there, go there, let's do this. And I think that's what's so exciting to me. Michelle (13:24) Mm -hmm. Right, right. Yeah, definitely huge. So talk about the immune system. this is one of the things that you can look at, I know that there is a lot of a connection with autoimmune conditions and the gut health and, high inflammation and leaky gut. So talk about that, how people can look into it and how they can address it. Sarah Wilson (13:53) Absolutely. So I actually also was a microbiome researcher at one point in my profession. It's so important. And even now, like post pandemic, we've seen it so much more important because historically, what do we always say? Is 60 to 80 % of your immune system lives in your gut. Okay. So there is within your gut, there is, it's so interesting. Picture a PVC pipe, right? On the inside, if there's Play -Doh. Michelle (13:59) awesome. Amazing, though, but it's so important. Mm Mm Sarah Wilson (14:23) that's where the bacteria live, right? But that's actually outside of your body. And so that play -doh is either poop, in those of us who are lovingly chronically constipated, or it's the...
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EP 304 The Power of an Integrative Care Approach to Women's Health Dispelling Fertility Myths | Dr. Laurena White
09/24/2024
EP 304 The Power of an Integrative Care Approach to Women's Health Dispelling Fertility Myths | Dr. Laurena White
On today’s episode, Dr. Laurena White and Michelle discuss the importance of preparing the body for pregnancy, especially for women who have irregular menstrual cycles or reproductive health issues. Dr. White emphasizes the need for a holistic approach that combines traditional and Western medicine. She shares stories of women who were told they had premature ovarian failure but were able to conceive naturally with the right support. Dr. White also discusses the misconception of a 'geriatric pregnancy' at age 35 and the importance of making lifestyle changes to create a healthy environment for conception. Episode Takeaways: Integrative care and a holistic approach to healthcare are essential for providing comprehensive and effective treatment. Unexplained infertility requires thorough examinations and consideration of both male and female factors. Birth control can have long-lasting effects on the body and may require time for restoration before attempting to conceive. Preconception care is crucial for optimizing fertility and should include lifestyle changes and seeking the right practitioners. Finding the right practitioner who listens and takes a personalized approach is key to a successful fertility journey. Preparing the body for pregnancy is crucial, especially for women with irregular menstrual cycles or reproductive health issues. A holistic approach that combines traditional and Western medicine can be beneficial in optimizing fertility. Making lifestyle changes, such as improving sleep, nutrition, and stress management, can create a healthy environment for conception. Guest Bio: Dr. White is obsessed with health, wellness, and most importantly...healing. In 2018, when she embarked on an entrepreneurial journey and centered her firm around an integrative womanist ethic of care, she had a vision that bonafide healing of chronic, complex health conditions ought to be more attainable, inclusive, and (yes)enjoyable. Within a few years of launch, she had grown a profitable, bootstrapped firm with a full-time team of one to a 15-person team in two additional locations in the Washington, DC metro area. With over 20 years of service and experience in the field of women's health ranging from labor support doula to obstetrics/gynecology and reproductive endocrinology/infertility including acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, she is a positive disruptor. As the Chief Operations Officer of The Eudaimonia Center, an integrative reproductive medicine and women’s health firm, she leads a team that facilitates the health, wellness, and healing of complex women’s health challenges including but not limited to uterine fibroids, endometriosis, polycystic ovarian syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, and fertility challenges without the use of unnecessary pharmaceutical drugs (including synthetic hormones and painkillers) and fruitlessly invasive surgical interventions. In a country whose healthcare system falls woefully short of addressing the comprehensive needs of “the least of these”, namely Black women and their children, she aims to revolutionize the industry one healing experience at a time by being fertile ground in a barren land. While building a firm may have looked effortless from the outside, starting a business with no resources or funding quickly forced her to realize that early-stage entrepreneurship was anything but transparent. She began documenting her experiences and learnings while focusing on helping more women learn about integrative health, the womanist ethic of care, and the true meaning of healing. She has reimagined what comprehensive women’s healthcare could and should be. As a result, she integrated her firm by forming a synergistic flow between conventional medicine and traditional medicine modalities, so the care women receive is not only transformative, but it’s also restorative. Social media Facebook - The Eudaimonia Center Instagram - @theeudaimoniacenter LinkedIn - Laurena White, MD, MPH, DiplAc Twitter - @eu_daimonism Website link - Podcast: For more information about Michelle, visit: The Wholesome FertilityFacebook group is where you can find free resources and support: Instagram: @thewholesomelotusfertility Facebook: Transcript: Michelle (00:00) Welcome to the podcast, Dr. White. I'm so excited to have you today. Laurena White (00:03) Thank you so much, Michelle. glad to be Michelle (00:06) So Lorena and I spoke on her podcast. She had me on her podcast, Women's Health, Wisdom and Wine. She loves wine and I do too. And she actually just came back from Paris. So I'm sure you've had some good wine there. And Lorena, if I may call you Lorena, Dr. Lorena, I feel like you're a friend, so I'm calling you Lorena. Yeah, so she's incredible. She has such an incredible story. when Laurena White (00:20) Definitely. Of course, yes. Yes, we're colleagues, yes. Michelle (00:34) talked to her, met her the first time. I actually, before even meeting her, I took her class on fibroids and it was such a great class and I remember recognizing her and your story is so amazing. And I would love for you to share your story because I think it's fascinating. What I love about your story specifically is first of all, you've been to Cuba, which is freaking awesome. But then also the fact that you have Laurena White (00:56) Yes. Michelle (01:00) like a foot in both worlds of Western and Eastern medicine and really integrate those two. And also what I love about you is that have a different approach. You really look at people as a whole and really spend time to get to know them and listen to them. It's just, I if I can clone you, like, it would be awesome. Laurena White (01:04) Yes. Trust me, I'm working on it. I am trying to clothe myself because I really do feel like how we practice and how our firm works is how I feel and this isn't with no hubris, but how medicine should be. And I honestly believe that we are better together. And so often it's us versus them. And that's not just in medicine, but it's almost in everything. There's just these power dynamics that are not serving. Michelle (01:31) Yes. Laurena White (01:46) the people or the population that we desire to serve, they're trying to serve others' egos. And that's one of the things that frustrate me. That's why I integrated our firm, because I truly do believe in an integrative approach to care. And we have added a womanist ethic of care to that component that takes it even a notch further. And so the original question was kind of telling how I got started or how I got from there to here. Michelle (01:51) Mm You have to tell your story because it's so cool. Laurena White (02:12) I'm gonna try to summarize it as quickly as possible. I always knew I wanted to be a physician. I thought I wanted to be a pediatrician. But once I got to my Peds rotation, I realized I love the children, but I could not stand their parents. And that wasn't going to end up with a good career for anybody nor happy families. And I didn't think I was interested in... women's health from the OB -GYN perspective, just because I thought who wants to look at vaginas all day? Like that's just not seemed like something that I wanted to do. However, when I got to that rotation, I started with OB and life changed. Literally my life changed because from even before I helped deliver a baby, it was about, I had been exposed to women's health. had been involved with women's circles in my own family. through vaginal steaming, I had been a doula, labor support doula, so I had been around that aspect, but I realized there's so much more to conception and childbirth, and that 10 months in between, there's so many things that can go wrong, and we don't even talk about those aspects. And so really being able to bear witness to that miracle of birth, I realized that the word miracle is exactly what that is, because we only see those perfect endings. when we're on the outside, don't see the everything that goes on in between and what a lot of moms have to go through, not just to get pregnant, but to stay pregnant. And so really being able to bear witness to that miracle of birth, it brought tears to my eyes. And I started wearing goggles because my colleagues are like, you cry at every birth, suck it up. And I was like, and I, you know, I tried, I was like, why do I do this? I was like, why do I cry every time? Michelle (03:52) I'd be the same. Laurena White (03:56) But it's, mean, I'm a softy, I'm in love with love, and I think that, you know, mother -child relationship, you know, it's it's overpowering, it's overwhelming in terms of how intensely bonded that can be when it's healthy and when that whole process just unfolds right in front of your eyes from the time someone, you know, tells you, hey, I'm pregnant, or I think I'm pregnant, to the time, like, you're literally holding that baby in your hands, presenting them to their parent. So it was amazing. And so by the time I got to my Gain rotation, I also realized, hey, this is so much deeper than I thought it would be. It's about education. It's about empowerment. It's about making sure people know their body parts. And not just with 12 and 13 year olds, but also with 41 and 42 year olds who have had children and still don't know where babies come from. And so I was like, I can be an educator as well through this process. And it that was also empowering for me because I knew there was still work to be done. So in between those things, I worked for a federally qualified health center, loved my job, but it was burning me out. I was a sister, a friend, a transportation, a social worker, interpreter. The good thing that I do speak more than one language, so that helped. But it was just a lot for what was supposed to be a basically checkup appointment or an annual visit or. you know, something like that, and it turned into a lot of other things. And when you're helping the indigent and the English as a second or fourth language, and those who just are either immigrants or underhoused or unhoused, I mean, it's just, it was just a lot. And as much as I, my personality doesn't have a switch off valve to say, okay, this is outside your lane. it sees a person who needs help and it's like, okay, you're the one here and they're asking for you and they're sitting in front of you now. So do something. But I was quickly getting burnt out because there was just so much every single day that I was getting home just exhausted. Happy that I was able to do the things that I was able to do, but still just really, really exhausted and burnt out because there wasn't enough time for me, my family, or the other things, aspects of my life that were also important. And After that, I was like, I also wanted to get out of Pennsylvania. And so I wound up working for the Surgeon General during the Obama administration. I was a women's health consultant there and one of the sweetest jobs I've ever had in life. That was after though, I came back from Cuba. I lived in Cuba for six years. And then I lived in Haiti for two years. And that's where I realized what kind of physician I wanted to be. So Cuba and Haiti back to Pennsylvania, then DC and... When the administration changed, everything for me changed. I knew I could no longer stay in working in that administration the way that I had been. My job was not secure. Things were changing at a pace that wasn't healthy for me, wasn't healthy for my position, it wasn't healthy for my reputation. And so I realized, hey, it's either gonna, you're gonna either go back and get an MBA or you're going to open up your own firm and figure it out. Going back to school, I'm a nerd and I love studying. I love all those things. So going back to school was not even a big deal for me. I had already gone back to school to become an acupuncture. So going back to school again to get an MBA was just par for the course for me. But I realized I wanted to do this and I knew knew how to take care of my clients, my patients. So I was gonna start there. And that's what I did in 2018. We opened up our own firm. I opened up my firm started with me and three other part -time people and practitioners, and now we're up to 15, plus myself, and we have two locations, working on our third. So yeah, it's been a whirlwind. It's been, it's like all these good things. It didn't necessarily start off that way. Like the first three months when I opened the door, I was like, where are all the people? They say you build it and they'll come. And that is not how it works. Michelle (07:39) It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Laurena White (07:57) You build it and you spend a lot of time looking at the window wondering is the electricity, know, is the phone jack working? You pick it up. Okay, there is a dial tone. So the phone does work The doors bolted shut like what is going on and It just is one of those things like you know building something from the ground up is just not the what you see in the movies There's a lot of heartbreak. There's a lot of other kind of stuff that goes into that but it never has been not rewarding and it definitely built my character in ways that I didn't know I needed building. Patience is not one of my virtues, and so that definitely showed me, know, dig deeper and harder and into making the thing that I wanted to see come to fruition fully become what it is now. And it's growing. Michelle (08:41) Awesome. And also, I mean, really based on your background, I imagine there's not a lot of places like yours. Laurena White (08:48) that I know of. When we started, one of my mentors was in California and she was shutting down her, shuttering her whole office because she's like, it's too much work, know, between trying to do all the integrative aspects of things and then insurance. And it was wild. And so just when I was opening up, we had been talking for maybe three or four months and she's like, I can't do this anymore because it's just too much work. And I was thinking, know, in California where everything is so progressive and everybody is, what I feel is already advanced and she's having issues. What is that going to mean for me? But I realized I believed in what we do, the work we do, how we do it, our approach. And I bet on myself and I still continue betting on myself because I don't believe that we're, you we got this far just for it to be a flop or a failure. I believe we're steadily growing and people are steady realizing that there are other options. Even if it's not us, there's something else out there. And I think part of that is realizing that it doesn't have, you don't have to be stuck in the same Western medicine system, not being valued, not being seen, not being heard. And with us, you've seen, and valued. And I think everyone deserves that. And as people are starting to realize that they're becoming empowered and whether they choose to work with us or somebody else, they're realizing that they have other decisions that they can make and they don't have to be stuck in a rut. with providers and practitioners that aren't taking care of Michelle (10:12) I think that's huge because I think most people don't really think that they have an option or they just think they don't even know that anything else exists. so talk about that. Like what's the ideal way a patient should feel like when they come in, like what are the things that should be looked at? Cause I, from what I hear a lot is that people want to get like certain worked on or more blood worked on, say, you know, their TSH is off and they want to do a full thyroid, there's a lot of pushback from their doctors or, you don't need that. this is fine. And then sometimes even other intuition, they're like, no, I feel like I need something. And then later on, they find out that intuition was right. They had like a hunch and you know, that's it's a real thing intuition, you know, so, so talk to, because I want people hearing this. Laurena White (10:46) Mm Yeah. Right. Yeah. Michelle (11:05) that are really on the journey, they're going through all of this. I want them to know like what they can have, what should be the quality of care that they should be receiving. Laurena White (11:05) huh. Absolutely. And I think that you hit the nail on the head is that, especially as women, we have that thing, whether you call it intuition or a feeling or whatever you want to call it, it's there. And a lot of times we ignore it because it doesn't fall in the parameters of what everyone else is saying or what the doctor told you or what your friends tell you or something else. But you're constantly being told, no, you're normal or you're fine or it's something else other than something that you know. Michelle (11:44) It's like a dismissal. Yeah. Laurena White (11:45) It'd be off. Yes, complete, yes, that's the word, dismissal. And that's where the womanist ethic of care comes into place, is that when you tell us there's something off and I can't pinpoint it based on my diagnostic skills, which I do take pride in, then it's like, okay, then let's figure it out together. What have you tried? What works? What doesn't work? I'm not one for just running a bunch of tests either, just for the sake of running tests, but I also realized that with blood work, physicians primarily get reimbursed on the basic blood work. There are other blood work that is so expensive that is not covered by insurance and it's out of pocket. So they don't run those because they're not going to get reimbursed. Or they're looking at normal ranges. If it's between this and this, it's falling in the normal range, but they're not looking at ratios. And so you're getting your blood work panel back and it says everything's in the normal range, but some of those ranges are not in the normal ratio. So when you're just looking at numbers and everything says normal and they're just saying, okay, everything's normal, but the ratios are off, that's an explanation for potentially some of the conditions or the symptoms that one is experiencing. But also are they even running the right tests? And if they're not running the right tests or the correct tests in order to make the accurate diagnosis, they're going to continue telling you that there's nothing wrong. Everything's fine to the point of even hinting that it's in your head or you're making it up, which is also one of the things that really annoy me because when someone is telling you there's something wrong and it's not the first time and it's not the complaining Janeys, but someone who does the things and they, and you can see that they've been at this for years, months. Now's the time for me to listen because there's something that's clearly not being addressed. Michelle (13:09) Mm Laurena White (13:33) And that's again where the womanist ethic of care comes into place because if I don't have the answer, we're gonna seek and find it together. I do believe I'm a solution finder. I don't call myself a problem solver because who wants to chase problems? I don't. I wanna find solutions. Yes. Yeah. I mean, who wants to, you run away from problems. You don't run to them, but you run to solutions. And so when we're working together, talking about your symptoms, really asking the questions that we...
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