Purpose: Pivoting Careers

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Tammy Alvarez, founder and CEO of Career Winners Circle. Tammy is also an author, professional keynote speaker, inspirational coach, trainer, and epic storyteller. After experiencing firsthand burn out in a corporate career she struck out and intentionally created a work /life balance that resulted in  creating Career Winners Circle, a company offering career coaching, helping individuals figure out what you do that you love and organizations that want to ignite their employees.

They speak about Tammy leaving corporate life in New York, and how to “weather through”  seasonality in your business and your career to come back to your "Why?"

You can find out more about Tammy and her writing at:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammyalvarez

https://careerwinnerscircle.com/

“Escaping the Career Trap: Transform Your Apathy Into Ambition and Never Hate Mondays Again;”

and the book Tammy mentions in this episode: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/scale-or-fail-allison-maslan/1128886160

You can subscribe to Next Act Advisors at https://nextactadvisors.com/product/subscriptions/ and be sure to use the special discount code "sandbox25" for friends of The Founder's Sandbox for 25% off your subscription.

 

transcript: 

00:04
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01:01
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01:20
Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, your host in this monthly podcast. We're now into our third season. The monthly podcast reaches entrepreneurs and business owners who learn about building resilient, purpose-driven and sustainable businesses with great corporate governance. I want to assist entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in building those scalable, well-governed and resilient businesses. And guests to my podcast are founders, business owners,

01:49
themselves who want to use the power of the private enterprise, be it small, medium, or large, to create change for a better world. Through storytelling with each of my guests that are going to touch upon resilience, purpose-driven enterprise, and sustainable growth, my goal is to provide in a fun environment where we can equip one startup founder at a time the skills to build a better world through great corporate governance.

02:20
Today, my guest is Tammy Alvarez. Tammy is joining the podcast as founder and CEO of Career Winners Circle. She also is an author, professional keynote speaker, inspirational coach, trainer, and epic storyteller. So welcome, Tammy, to the Founder's Sandbox. Thank you, Brenda. It is such a pleasure to be here today. I do feel a bit intimidated. You know, you're an epic storyteller, and I thought...

02:49
So we have two storytellers in the sandbox today. Should be good. Excellent. So in prior conversations with you, Tammy, and I did take some time to listen to some other podcasts where you've been featured. You, like me, share a mission. And you're very mission-driven. And you've experienced firsthand burnout in the corporate world. And you intentionally created.

03:18
a work life balance, which we're going to learn about more today that resulted in creating career winners circle. And it's a company that's offering coaching, career coaching, helping individuals figure out what you do that you love. Every guest and I we choose a title for the podcast, our title for this podcast with Tammy Alvarez, CEO of career

03:46
is purpose pivoting careers. So Tammy, you are joining us from Mexico City. I am. But your journey actually started years ago in New York and Wall Street. And then you took a little jaunt over to Belize. And I found some commonalities, my own work.

04:13
is informed by a major life change that I made back over 20, actually 15 years now, I moved back to the US after 25 years in Europe. And I work with companies, not necessarily individuals, to be fit for purpose, poised for growth, and made for resilience. What made you leave the Manhattan, Wall Street life and go offshore before it became fashionable?

04:41
in the post-COVID world? It was an interesting culmination of activities, if you will. I grew up in and around Wall Street. So my whole career was really around financial services and I loved the corporate career. Throughout my corporate career, I made 11 different changes in terms of the jobs that I had, everything from sales to audit and everything in between.

05:09
in five different industries and around Wall Street, because I had this mindset that if you don't like it, change it. And that's kind of how I navigated through my career. And I remember this one day, here I am, top of my career, managing director, the height of my career is managing like over 2000 people in 35 countries, like all these big girl things that are going on. And I remember sitting in a boardroom, we had missed earnings again.

05:39
And we were just waiting for the bloodletting to begin, right? So our boss comes in and every quarter it would turn into a game of hot potato. Of whose fault was it? Like, it's not my fault. It's sales fault. It's operations. It's this, it's that. And it just was actually, you know, became comical. And then we'd all go out for a few beers after the meeting was over. And so this time was particularly brutal in terms of how difficult the analyst call was. And I remember having this.

06:07
out of body experience it felt like in the movies. You know, when you're floating over the table and you're associated to it, but you're not really there. And I didn't realize it at the time, but my career had received its death sentence because I developed this disease that I call I don't give a shititis. And so, you know, six months later, I had found myself, I had cashed out of Wall Street.

06:32
I had moved to a tropical island off the coast of Belize in Central America and started this business, which was by far the most terrifying thing I've ever done. And I just really needed that reset because I had stopped learning. And it felt like I had just seen everything and to go to another company would have been the same, you know, the same thing with a different shade of lipstick. And I needed to reignite my desire to actually learn.

07:00
fail successfully and move my business forward. Say that again, you wanted to reignite. I needed to reignite my desire, my ability to learn, but also how to fail successfully. Okay. And continue to start a new chapter. Right, right. And we did speak about some of your intentional choices. All right, you leave, you had it.

07:28
What would you call that? You had a disease? Oh, yeah. I don't give a shititis, right? So yes. I think a lot of us have that disease, and we just don't realize it's, you know. Right. Well, by speaking your truth, which is what I'm hearing, and my listeners will as well. I was struck, though, Tammy, because you landed in that tropical island, but you really didn't yet know what you were about to do, right? I had no idea.

07:58
you age out of Wall Street, you just do. And so part of my plan, soft plan, the extent of my business plan, Brenda, was I'm gonna coach someday and sit on a few boards and do some academic work. That was the extent of my business plan. So when I pulled the plug, I think I've made every mistake an entrepreneur could possibly make, probably twice, because I'm a slow learner. And so I just fumbled my way through in the dark and just.

08:24
kept trying things and kept failing at things until I finally figured out the secret sauce, but it took several years for me to get to that point. And it was terrifying, right? In terms of feeling like I had lost the skill to learn, I'm like, oh, this is taking a lot longer than it used to because I purposefully stayed at a corporate. I did not wanna have a business to business company because I knew I was still addicted to the work. Yep.

08:51
And if I'd gone right back in, I'd just be in the same rat race under my own flag. And so I purposely sent myself to serve consumers and I didn't know anything about mailing lists or drip campaigns or marketing funnels. I knew none of this stuff. And so that, that journey was absolutely one of the most frustrating and rewarding journeys I think I've had. And, and you know, did you, um, you're six years into

09:17
this almost seven now. Yeah, exactly. auspicious number. Do you really believe that you've removed the golden handcuffs of a corporate life or and you are the best operator to actually be working with people that are leaving corporate life in Wall Street? Yes. And yes. Excellent. You know, since the day I started the firm, I've never worked more than 30 hours a week.

09:45
Right. We would go scuba diving a couple of days a week before work. Just as a way to start our day. What better way than to go play with the fish and get salty. And it was interesting. So I had how to coach when I, when I finally realized that I can't do this on my own. And I probably should actually get some help with somebody who's done this before. I was not looking at the finances in my business the way I was supposed to. And she kept asking me, you know, every time we met, where are we with the numbers? Where are we with the forecast?

10:15
And I would just, I didn't do what I didn't do it. And so she finally asked me, she goes, what are you afraid of? And of course I bristled, cause I'm like, I'm not afraid of anything. And she let it go because she knew she hit a nerve. And so I let that marinate for a little bit. And after a session or two, what it turned out Brenda, is that I was afraid of success. Okay.

10:38
I didn't know it at the time consciously, but I was afraid that I was gonna end up tethered to my desk just like I was in corporate. And so I was abandoning all the good practices and the things that I had learned in corporate because when I cut the cord, I cut everything. I didn't keep the good stuff. And so once I started to realize that some of these routines will actually help me scale without compromising my lifestyle, then that's when things really started to turn around for me.

11:05
Now we've got six coaches. We're serving individuals and businesses worldwide. And I'm still, I don't work on Fridays. And those boundaries are so important to me because I just gave up on those for my entire adult life. You said a few things here, too, that really caught my attention. So you intentionally did set out to want to make a difference in other people's lives. So you started with your own.

11:35
You work no more than 30 hours a week. You've built your work life, your work around the work-life balance. Yes. And you kept the good stuff that matter from that corporate life. I'm curious, is this a type of consulting that you do with the individuals that you coach? Yes, we do. Because a lot of the mid-assessors

12:04
mid to senior level leaders that we coach, start their own businesses. And so we helped them on that journey. And so the business found me initially, because one of the biggest mistakes I made is that I created a bunch of amazing programs that no one would buy. So I was like, okay, this is a terrible idea. Because I was a transformation expert on Wall Street. So we, every time the building was burning, my team and I were running in while everyone else was running out. I loved it.

12:31
But when I was in corporate, I realized that most people suck at this. Okay. And so I'm like, let me teach people how to be really strong transformational leaders, which was a great idea, but that didn't work with a business to consumer model because they wouldn't pay for it because they didn't see that as a gating factor to their success. That's right. And as I was talking to potential clients, it's like, yeah, yeah, I don't care about that, but I want to know how you did what you did. I was like, Oh, you do. And like, you know, cause they.

13:00
Most of our clients when we started were mid to senior level leaders, single career, multiple companies usually, but single career, and now they're miserable and they feel stuck and they know they don't like this, but they don't know what they did like. And there's a lot of shame that comes with that. And so I deconstructed the things that I did naturally over the past 20 years in terms of making all these moves. I'm like, how do I help others do this? And so the business actually found me.

13:29
And that's really how we started. But then as our customers' journeys evolved and they started to go into smaller companies and become C-suite executives for mid-size organizations or start their own firms or begin their own nonprofits, then we continue to serve them on that journey because those are new challenges and new opportunities for them to need a wingman or a win-win-win for. And so now we really work with

13:57
business leaders and individual executives within companies, if you don't wake up and love Monday every Monday, you're doing it wrong. Exactly. It's not a pipe dream. And that's really where we step in and add that value and make that difference. That's a great segue to the title of your book that you recently authored, The First Quarter of 2024. How did you?

14:26
Make the time Tammy, while running your business, attending to your clients, working with building your own team. So for my listeners, Tammy is author of Escaping the Career Trap, Transform Your Apathy into Ambition and Never Hate Mondays Again. So applause. Thank you. So you are an author. How did you find the time?

14:53
um, to write this and how, who was your target audience? Um, and how has that influenced the type of work you're doing today? Yeah, the book, um, has been in the making since I started the company. And I had a really good mentor because that was the first thing I wanted to do was write a book. And so he sat me down. He lived in Belize as well. And so he and I were, you know, having a cocktail on the terrace, looking over the ocean. He's like, Tammy, you don't need a book.

15:23
you need customers. And he's like, without customers, you don't have a business. And so this idea of a book kept going on my vision board year after year after year. And so the timing turned out to be perfect because we were moving from Belize to Mexico City. I had no friends in Mexico City yet, and I didn't speak the language very well. And so this was a really good time for me just to hunker in.

15:52
and really finally get this passion project of mine over the finish line. And obviously it takes a village, right? So I had a great coach and even better editor. You know, I'm a thought leader, I'm not an author by trade. And so there was a lot of heavy lifting in terms of making this readable for our audience. And the book surprised me actually, because originally it was written for the disenfranchised worker. Like if you hate Mondays, you need to read the book. And it's a coaching book.

16:21
where you absolutely know step by step exactly what you need to do. But then what surprised me is that organizations started to pay me to come in and deliver this message to their teens. Oh my gosh. I was like, you do realize I talk in the first two chapters about how messed up everything is. And they're like, yes, but this is the message. Cause in the message, the so what to this is that I think everyone needs to become that CEO.

16:50
of you incorporated. And when you start to treat your career like a business, whether you are a corporate person or whether you actually have your own business, because a lot of us haven't promoted ourselves into that CEO spot yet. But when you start to think about things in terms of running a business and apply those to how you manage your career, everything changes. And it's good for the individual, it's good for the business, it's good for everyone.

17:16
And so, you know, with the book now, we are working with companies who are really struggling with the majority of their employees who also have, I don't give a shit, itis. Okay. And like, how do you wake them up? Because there's this, especially in the middle market space, there's this concept of this, you know, global talent shortage crisis is what they're calling it. And so I'm here with all the layoffs, how can there be a talent shortage crisis anywhere?

17:43
But what I strongly believe, and what we're starting to prove out with our clients now, is that businesses have everything they need right under their nose. They just don't know how to activate it. Right, right. And so we've created a, you know, literally a three month like adrenaline rush process to reactivate the ambition and get people to start to lean in and care about what they do again. And it's made amazing results and differences for our clients.

18:12
So at the end of the day, we're all about loving Mondays in every way possible. And whether that's helping organizations or individuals find their path, there's a way forward for everyone. Right, I love the comment you made around the first three chapters when you were surprised that corporates were asking you to come in and speak is that everyone needs to become a CEO within their business, right? The business line, right?

18:40
Did I quote you correctly? Because I mean, you know, so when you treat your career like a business, yeah, and you become the CEO of you incorporated, then that's when the magic starts to happen.

18:55
I can't wait to read it because I will be honest, I have not read your book, but I loved the catchy title, Escaping the Career Trap. Transform your apathy into ambition and never hate Mondays again. And those golden handcuffs are there, right? Right on the cover. And I think for entrepreneurs and solopreneurs and new business owners, we feel trapped too sometimes and we become a victim of the monster we've created, either a victim of our own success.

19:24
or we're not seeing the growth that we expected and things are harder than we planned for. And so much of what's in the book and also what we coach on really helps you break through that and find your way to the other side. Because I think all of our careers have what I call seasonality, right? And we all know success isn't linear. And so when you start to embrace that seasonality in your business,

19:50
and in your career and realize, okay, how can I show up better for me first? Because when I do that, then the downstream impacts are gonna show up in my business.

20:04
seasonality and how can I show up better? All right. Let's switch gears. Tammy, we've talked about how you from created your business over the last seven years, walk my listeners through a typical is the, is the word engagement. Is it one-on-one? Um, do you consult as well for the executive team of the midsize companies? Walk my listeners through that experience.

20:29
Yeah, absolutely. And so we do work privately and we have group, you know, we have group programs that we use. And then we also do business advisory work. And so a typical engagement in any of those scenarios is really not only getting clear on what good looks like, but why? Oh, because so many times we were like, I want to do this, you know, a business is like we want to expand, you know, an individual is like, I want to get promoted or, you know.

20:57
in group settings, we do a lot of women in leadership type work. You know, it's like, I want whatever. And then the next question is why? Why? And if those answers ring hollow, then it's time to go back and take a look at that to figure out what you really do want. Because so often we're on autopilot, we do something because it's what's expected next.

21:23
We do something because well, that's what all the books and the magazines and the podcasts I'm supposed to do. And all of these things, it's like, no, let's lean back in and figure out what do you want? And I think a really good example is I had this summer, I had a summer of flow is what I called it. And we had hired all these coaches last year. We launched the book in January. We had a great book launch party in New York City in April. And everybody's like, what's next? And I'm like, I'm tired.

21:49
Nothing is next. Right, and so I promised we're gonna run the business, but I was just gonna not make any big decisions or start anything new for the whole summer. Nice. Now the summer flow is led into a raging river, but I needed that time to assess what I wanted. And as I was doing this, I read this book called Scalar Fail. Scalar Fail. And so one of the exercises is that, you know, you put your big hairy goal out there from a revenue perspective and you triple it.

22:17
And so I did that and I'm like, well, this is exciting and all that kind of fun stuff. But then I started to back into what the operational and personal expense would be in terms of lifestyle to do that. I'm like, I don't wanna work that hard. It's not for me. Right? And so I think checking in and asking ourselves why, because if you find that you've achieved something that you wanted and you get there, and suddenly you look around and you're like,

22:46
is this all there is, then you've been running the wrong race. And so we don't check in enough to make sure that the race we're running is going to give us the finish line that is truly where we need to be. So that's the really first part of the engagement, because once that's clear, then from an execution perspective and building that path forward through coaching and through skill building and through advisory work, that stuff becomes a lot easier.

23:14
because when you know Simon Sinek is great with that whole start with why, because when you're really connected to that, that is where you get your resilience. Okay. You know, I have found there's been several times in my life where I want to give up. Okay. And things got too hard. Do I really want this? Like, you know, it was just easier to just play it safe, do nothing, all the things. But when I connected to my, you know, my true why, like.

23:42
what is going on with me personally, then that's where I found my grit to keep going. Like when I was younger in my career, you know, quick story, but long story short, my parents split up when I was a teenager, my mom, my sister and I ended up homeless. And I saw how much she struggled. And I swore that that would never be me. And so for the beginning part of my career, my ambition was fueled by fear. Yes.

24:07
Um, and so, but that's what kept me going. It's like, I don't want this, like, you know, and so, so that was really what allowed me to find that internal fortitude to do the things that just seemed impossible. Now, when I started this business, I started to have second thoughts again. I'm like, this is so irresponsible.

24:25
It's like, you are a grown adult and you've left the job everybody wants. You're living on a tropical island. You have no idea where your first paycheck is coming from, let alone the second and third. It's like, what are you doing? And I was afraid, because at that time, my parents were aging and they had no money separately. And so my sister and I were supporting them financially. And I'm like, I have one daughter. I'm like, I don't want to be a burden on her because I'm off playing around the world. And so when I realized that, okay, now my...

24:54
you know, my big reason for doing what I do and for wanting what I want is so that way I'm never a burden on her, but I can still have the life that I want for me. Then the days where I wake up and I'm like, I'll be like doing this. I still get up and do it anyway. Right. So yeah. Thank you for sharing that personal story. And I feel honored that you shared that here on the Founder Sandbox.

25:24
So I'm good on how my listeners can use your services. So it's either individuals or mid-size companies. Yep, yep. Entrepreneurs, mid-size companies, that kind of stuff. Yes. So at Next Act Advisors, I work a lot with scaling companies. So it's normally the CEO and the founding team. I'm all about building scalable and resilient companies.

25:54
and the management of risk is very important. Can you, and you have a lot of clients that come from the Wall Street world, right? Do you have any specific highlights or experiences with executives who have pivoted their careers while working with you and are actually working in the risk and compliance functions? I mean, I'd love to hear some real life stories. Yeah, when I was in corporate, you know,

26:24
three of those 11 roles that I had, one was operational risk for a client defense, one was internal audit, so the very last stop, and then a major role in compliance, in terms of international banking and during the financial crisis. And so I think having a sales background, which is how I started my career, moving into middle office and operations, and then ultimately leading some risk functions,

26:51
There's a few things that I think if you're sitting in a risk function today, that make a difference between being adequate at your job and being an amazing business partner. And it's so easy to just hide behind the word no. Okay. It's safe. Like you can't do that. Like Dr. No. Right? You can't do that. You can't do this. You can't do these things. Whereas there's a true risk part.

27:18
is going to be able to help guide a business executive on how to get to yes, safe, and in a safe way. And very few, I think, risk partners actually do that. And so knowing I had a quota that I had carried in my life and frontline with clients when they're irritated because it takes so long to get them onboarded, or they have to fill out this form 700 times or whatever it is, it's like as a risk partner, it's your job to help.

27:47
the business safely get to yes and grow. And I think it's just too easy to hide behind the checklist, hide behind that this is what the regulators said. I mean, we need to listen to the regulators. They are there for everyone's safety. But there's so many ways to not have to have that contentious or that myopic relationship. And so I think from a risk partner perspective, really understanding how the business works.

28:15
really understanding where the risks are. So let's face it, you know, if you are going to be completely risk adverse, you would never open up your front door on a rainy day with marble floors. Because the chance of somebody slipping and falling is too high, but we open our doors every day. So there's at some level an assumed acceptance of risk. And like, how do we do this in a way that business people understand? You know, cause you've got your.

28:43
RCS says you've got your risk assessments. You've got all these things. The end of the day, they're just spreadsheets. No one cares about, right? You've got to and so to bring this alive, I'm like, OK, here's what we need to do. Let's find a way to do that. And with the business partners with you hand in hand, it's just an amazing combination to be able to get things done in a good way. I like that. I love how you've really brought it back to how a risk professional could tell their story and a more

29:13
coming CEO of your own career, all right? Let's go to another question related to 2025. So you took the summer off, you were in flow, now we're in a raging river. We are definitely in a raging river now, that's for sure. The team is like, hope you enjoyed the rest. You have something in store for 2025 that is related to your service offering with CEOs and management teams. Tell us a little bit more about that.

29:41
upcoming launch. Yeah, so excited about this. And this is going to be an absolute game changer for so many businesses. And really started with that aha moment I had when companies wanted me to start talking about the messages in the book. And so what we've done is we've cracked the code on how to reignite a workforce that no longer cares. In ways that actually move the dime.

30:11
Okay. And revenue, profitability, quality, customer satisfaction, key talent retention. And so it's called Amplify 360. And what we do is we take this three pronged approach to work with a company for three months. I think most leaders have kind of fallen out of love with a long term culture play.

30:35
Right, you bring consultants in, you bring organizational design people in, you bring in employee engagement surveys, you do all these things and nothing works. So what do you do? And so what we do is we take three months, basically it's an adrenaline shot to get the company started and kind of pivoted onto the right track. But we work with three different constituents. We work with the employees and teach them how to become that CEO of their career. Okay.

31:03
we work with the leadership team to teach them how to not screw that up. Okay. Right? Cause that's a press like, oh, I got a stick. I don't like this. It makes me uncomfortable. And then we work with the executive team and the board to make sure that their policies, their procedures, the things that they're recognizing and moving people forward in terms of behavior are taking the organization in the right direction of travel. Okay.

31:29
Because one of those three pieces, when one of them breaks, the whole thing breaks. Okay. And so we spend the first month doing baseline work and seeing where the company's at. The second month is skill building and training and coaching and those types of things. The third month is operationalizing this so they can be self-sufficient. Wow. And so it is fast, it is high energy. It layers in with,

31:59
You still have to run a business, so we don't have to shut down for three months to do this. And what we've found in some of our preliminary pilots is that the entire dynamic starts to change. And all of a sudden, the people who didn't have much to say are engaged and connected. And one of the biggest core foundational things that we work on is we work on connecting an individual's personal

32:28
um, ambition, you know, they're the things that get them, that get them up at night or aspirations rather. So we take their aspirations and connect them to the company's biggest goals. I love it. See, we don't tap into aspiration because you can't measure it. Right. But there's a reason all of us get out of bed in the morning, regardless of what we do for a living. So what is that? And when you figure out what that is,

32:56
And then you start applying that to the company's, you know, biggest objectives. Now, all of a sudden everyone is winning because typically the things that you have the biggest aspirations about are also the things you're most skilled in. Now you have more people spending time playing to their strengths. They're doing things that they personally care about and the business is winning too. So would you say that your secret sauce in this amplify 360 degree approach

33:26
is aligning the individual's personal aspiration with the corporate goals. Yes, that is absolutely step one, right? And it's something no one's doing, right? Everyone's talking employee engagement. I'm telling you to think about aspirations. Absolutely. Wow. And Tammy, just for clarification, are you focusing this new service offering on

33:56
it's sector agnostic. People are people, right? Our area of strong expertise are middle market companies that are in STEM and in hypergrowth, right? That's really where this has the best opportunity for an ROI fast. But we serve all clients in terms of if you need that kind of support and you're willing to do the things that you need to within your organization. But middle market STEM, that's really our sweet spot. Excellent.

34:26
Well, it's now your time to share with my listeners how to contact you, Tammy Alvarez, or your company. What would you, there'll be show notes for this episode and we'll be providing material to give some some information on how. Absolutely. Yeah. So, so the one thing I love to ask all of our listeners to do is connect with me on LinkedIn and send me a message. Let me know you heard the podcast, what you thought, you know, what you agreed with, what you didn't. I love to hear your stories.

34:55
But you can also reach us at care We are offering a complimentary strategy assessment for companies who might need the Amplify 360 solution, where we can see, are you ready for this and where's your best opportunity? So really between the website and LinkedIn, those are the best ways to get ahold of us right now. Well, thank you, Tammy. We're gonna go back to the founder sandbox and I love to ask each of my guests.

35:24
The meaning of three words, which is the areas of work where I engage with my clients. And it's on building resilient businesses, purpose-driven businesses and scalable growth. What does resilience mean to you? Resilience to me is being able to find joy no matter what life throws at you. Wow.

35:50
What about purpose-driven businesses? From a business perspective, I think having a purpose-driven business is about having that unifying force within your organization that everyone can get behind. Goes much further than a vision, mission, value statement. But again, it's the organizational aspiration. What is the reason we are getting out of bed in the morning, like a career winner circle? Our purpose?

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is to make sure that everyone loves Mondays again, right? And to eradicate the apathetic haze that has taken over in organizations. And that is our purpose. It's big and everyone's behind that. And so that's where I think the value of having a purpose-driven company comes into play. Thank you. Scalable growth. Scalable growth kind of ties to me into resilience, right? In terms of the rate of change that individuals and businesses are experiencing right now is significant.

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And so one of the things, especially through Amplify 360 that we focus on is making sure that the entire organization's ecosystem is future-proofed. And so, you can focus on your own shop, but if all your suppliers, your vendors, or your customers are changing tack and you don't know, then you can do all the things right for all the wrong outcomes. And so it's for me, that scalability, a big piece of that is you look at all the things that are involved

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ecosystem internally and externally and make sure that everything is as feature-proofed as it can possibly be. Like amazing nuggets there. Thank you. Last and final question, Tammy, did you have fun in the sandbox today? I love playing in the sandbox, right? So I did, Britta. Thank you so much for the invite. And hopefully some of the things that we talked about today resonate with the listeners where you can start to take action on some of these things right away. Well, thank you.

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My listeners, if you like this episode with Tammy Alvarez, sign up for the monthly release where founders, business owners, corporate directors, and professional service providers learn about how to build with strong governance, resilience, scalable, and purpose-driven company to make profits for good. Signing off for this month, thank you very much.