Scaling Deep Tech

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Salvador Badillo Rios. Salvador is Founder and CEO of EquiTech Innovate, a strategic consulting and advisory firm aimed at helping underserved and overlooked founders bring innovative and disruptive technologies to market. He is also Senior Associate and Portfolio Manager at National Security Innovation Capital (NSIC), a component of the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU), aimed at accelerating early-stage dual-use deep tech startups toward commercialization

At DIU and NSIC, Salvador supported 21 early-stage dual-use hardware startups across 12 states with ~$50M over three years leading to over $335M in total follow-on private capital (up to 20X funded amount at up to 11X prior to funding valuation).

They speak about Sal’s origin story; how despite being from a disadvantaged background, this has not deterred his purposefulness and positivity to make a difference particularly in underrepresented communities. Listen as Sal shares how he eventually settled on an engineering degree after choosing over music and English literature. What he does today as a senior portfolio manager in the DIU defense innovation unit’s National security innovation capital is a long way from Rancho Cucamonga. 

You can find out more about Sal at:

Linked IN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/salvador-badillo-rios

https://equitechinnovate.com/

 

 

Transcript:

00:04
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01:01
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01:19
Welcome back to the Founders Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, your host to this monthly podcast that reaches entrepreneurs and business owners who learn about building resilient, purpose-driven and scalable businesses with great corporate governance. Guests to this podcast are founders themselves, professional service providers, corporate board directors and investors.

01:47
who like me want to use the power of the enterprise, be it small, medium, and large, to create change for a better world. And I do storytelling with each one of my guests that starts with their origin story. And then we'll get into the contents of the podcast with each of my guests, and we touch upon topics around resilience, scalability, and purpose-driven.

02:15
initiatives or what drives the guest. So thank you for joining me. And I am absolutely delighted this month to have Salvador Badillo Rios, Sal, as my guest. So thank you for joining me, Sal. Thank you, Brenda. I'm very excited to be here. Excellent. So we met not too long ago. I am a member of Angel Capital Association and attended their national

02:44
Summit in Columbus, Ohio. And I'm from Columbus, Ohio. So I kind of killed two birds with one stone. And I was blown away. So I've been a member for three years. And this year they had for the first time a breakout session on deep tech and dual technologies. And Sal, you were one of the panel members. And I myself

03:11
love to work with deep tech companies. So we had a lot of synchronicities. And that's when I asked you to join me eventually here in the podcast. Yeah, yeah, no. Yeah, that's where we met. And I think it was an amazing opportunity to really connect with the angel community. I think oftentimes, you know, there's a lot of focus on VCs, but angels really drive that early start to these companies and to these technologies. And so

03:37
I wanted to make an effort to reach out to the angel community, educate, inform, you know, angels about deep tech and a lot of the DOD opportunities that there are for startups and potential collaborations and synergies. So yeah, I'm happy to have met you. So we're going to touch on a couple of those points because you do have a multifaceted career and background and diverse founder yourself of your own.

04:05
strategic consulting and advisory firm. So you are founder and CEO of Equitech Innovate. And it's really working towards serving underserved and overlooked founders that bring innovative and disruptive technologies to market. So kudos to you. That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you, yeah. And another hat you wear, and I don't know where you find the time in the day. Frankly.

04:33
And this was your speaking capacity when I met you earlier this year, your senior associate and portfolio manager at the national security innovation capital, a component of the defense innovation unit, DIU. So lots of acronyms in our department defense. So INSEC and DIU. And I was fascinated because that particular area, what you're involved in is it's accelerating early stage

05:02
dual use later on, you're going to tell us what dual use is. Yeah. Deep tech startups toward commercial commercialization. So, um, again, thank you, um, for joining me. We're going to talk about deep tech. We're going to get into also your own work that you're doing with, um, underserved founders. And I always like to have a title of our episodes. Um, and this one, I really think we're going to talk about scalable businesses. So what you're doing.

05:31
particularly with NSIC and the DIU is scaling, identifying early stage companies that truly have the promise of scaling. So scalable businesses. And you know, in a short period of time, you have scaled and then we'll get into the questions, but I was also very impressed with the focus of the work at the DIU and NSIC, you've used yourself have supported 21 early stage

06:00
dual use hardware, all right, not software, hardware startups across 12 states with over $50 million over the last three years. And that's led on to lead on it investments of 335 million of private capital and up to 20 times funded amount at up to 11 times prior to fund evaluation. Amazing, amazing, amazing. Thank you, yeah. All right. So can you...

06:30
describe for my, let's get into your origin story. Your PhD aerospace engineering, first generation Latino. LGBT, tell me what would be your tagline if anything. What I mean, this mashup of deep, tell me your origin story. How did you know what you're doing today? Yeah, thank you, yeah.

06:55
I mean, yeah, I mean, I was thinking through the tagline and I was like, well, I think maybe one could be, you know, life through punches, but I turned them into power and purpose. And so I think, you know, everyone, I'm sure has their own set of struggles, right? Everyone has dealt a different set of cards, right, in life. And it's really what you make of that, right? That really defines you. So for me, right, I grew up,

07:24
Here in Southern California. So I grew up in Rancho Cucamonga, about an hour East of LA without traffic. And so yeah, I grew up, my background is Mexican. So my parents are from Mexico. They met here and I'm the oldest of three. So I have two younger siblings. One is a year younger and then the youngest, seven years younger, but he has

07:53
down syndrome pretty severely. So I grew up in a disadvantaged background in a community where really I didn't know anyone that went to a four-year college, no one that went into any STEM field, right? And so, and my parents also, right, had never gone to college. So a lot of it was just learning and figuring things out along the way.

08:20
But I was lucky to have teachers that believed in me, that saw sort of something in me in school. And they would say, oh, yeah, you need to go to college. Or they would say, oh, you're good at math and science, things like that. And so they would reaffirm those things. But even once I got to high school, I really hadn't really planned for the future. I didn't really have thought about what major I wanted to go into or what college I wanted to go.

08:49
And so it was around being around other students that had thought about that a little bit better or had parents who were engineers or doctors that when they started asking me about it, I was like, oh, I don't know, but let me start thinking about it a little bit more. And so, yeah, so in my classroom, one of my teachers said, oh, the UC applications opened up. And so that's how I found out.

09:17
you know, that I should apply to college. There were several interests that I had, write music, English literature, and then STEM, right? And so I decided to go and try engineering and initially started with civil engineering, transitioned into mechanical and then added aerospace, just as, you know, being in college and taking different courses and being involved in different projects and clubs.

09:47
That's sort of how my interest kind of evolved. But even then, right, I didn't know about what a PhD was, or venture capital, or the field that I'm in now. So a lot of it has been a bit of a learning process. And I'm lucky to have had different organizations along the way geared towards underserved communities in STEM.

10:15
you know, PhD or things like that, that help create awareness for me about the different opportunities. My thing is you can't really go after something that you don't even know exists, right? So the more you're aware about different opportunities, the more you can sort of start to pave your path based on your own interests, so yeah. So you're a lifetime learner, although you're very young still.

10:41
Thank you for the interest in that. It's interesting because yesterday I was on a webinar with the National Association of Corporate Directors. It was about AI and workers, right? And interesting enough, the current generation, the largest generation that composes the workforce in the United States are Gen Xers. No, Gen Zers.

11:11
And the average retention, so the average period of time that they're in is 2.4 years. The next generation is the alpha, right? They're like 13, 14. They will have up to 17 careers, is what they're saying. And so the young, yes. You have so many opportunities. And again, I think people in your early

11:39
childhood, your neighborhood, your school, this professors that saw the, the, the ability for you with STEM related topics, they geared you those opportunities. So yeah, it's amazing the future of workforce and opportunities. So you yourself are going to get into in this podcast. Yeah. Some of that so you get out of college and what is your first gig? What'd you do?

12:08
Yeah, well, again, I went all the way to the PhD route. So one thing that was unique and what plugged me into DOD was, you know, going into my PhD, I had the opportunity to go to UCLA, but having a unique opportunity to work with the Department of Defense. And so whereas most students conduct research on campus, in my case, I had the opportunity to, after I take

12:37
a few of my, you know, some of my course requirements go to Edwards Air Force Research Lab, which is called the Rocket Lab, and really conduct research there. And so one, you get a lot more resources, right? Just because you're within DoD. And so you're able to really run, you know, and create projects and do these things that are at a higher level, right? This research is able to conduct at a higher level, and working on also

13:07
important problems to national security, you know, to the DOD that are more applicable than simply something that's just in a lab, right, that may be cool and interesting, but maybe there's not, you know, a huge focus on the application area. And so, yeah, I got to work alongside other military members and other researchers at DOD and really start to look things from a national security perspective.

13:34
And so how is certain technologies, whether more fundamental, more applied, how is that important to DOD and national security in general? As well as, you know, I got to see a lot of also the issues within traditional DOD and obstacles and sort of inefficiencies as well. And so it gave me sort of this unique perspective that

14:03
I would say most PhD students typically don't get, so I was very fortunate to have that. And so while being there, I also got interested in an entrepreneurship program. I was like, I wanted to get myself out of my comfort zone, out of the box and really interact with people from different backgrounds, not just from the STEM background. And...

14:28
And I loved it. I didn't know that I was going to love it. And I just decided to try it one day. And I just really loved speaking with customers. I got to be part of a student led startup. And so speaking to customers and that customer discovery phase, pitching to VCs, brainstorming with people from different backgrounds. I was like, this is where I want to be at. And so I thought I wanted to go into product development.

14:57
at a startup. And so that's what I was gearing towards. And so taking business courses online. And again, this is when the pandemic started to hit. So taking business courses online, learning more about emerging technologies like quantum and AI, that just interested me. And then DoD found me. And so they were like, okay, you have this unique

15:26
you know, technical background, background with DoD and some knowledge, right, regarding DoD and then interest in this startup and business, you know, business world. And so DoD was really starting, wanted to stand up and say National Security Innovation Capital, which, you know, focuses on early stage hardware technology. So as you may know, a lot of funding tends to go.

15:54
towards VC funding tends to go towards software and not enough towards hardware. And often hardware companies will resort to getting foreign capital, which at times may be considered adversarial and may compromise national security. And so DoD wanted to sort of get a hold of this a bit. And so stand up this program. And so, yeah, a few of my team members and I, we basically were hired on board to really stand up this program.

16:24
And this really involved developing the funding thesis, establishing the processes, eventually me running operations. Then because of my background, right? I got to do a lot more and help source these startups, evaluate these startups and help fund them and then support them. So I think naturally I just like wearing a lot of hats. It was very, it's been a very startup culture.

16:52
in a way just because we're a very small but mighty team. And so it's allowed me to do a lot as well as have a seat at the table and really sort of see things from that perspective. I love the that you were in the early stage of standing up the is it pronounced in sick. We usually refer it to as an insect. So what are

17:21
you know, these will be in the show notes, the we have a kind of infographic on NSIC. What are the I think there's seven key areas of investment within the DOD? Yeah. Yeah. So again, we're a component of the Defense Innovation Unit. And so

17:50
companies that are a little bit more mature that have some VC funding, that have commercial product. And the goal there is for them to find sort of the use cases and sort of pair those gaps with and look for specific solutions to address those gaps and transition that technology into DoD.

18:17
Again, we focus on the earlier stage, pre-seat to seat stage companies. And so, however, our technology areas are aligned with DIU's portfolios. So, you know, our technology areas are autonomy. And then sensors is weaved into that now. So advanced sensing would fall into autonomy. Energy technology. So this can involve energy storage. Advanced battery chemistries is a big thing under that one.

18:47
space technology. And so this is satellite stuff, as well as satellite communications, things like that. Telecommunications, so advanced communications technologies. And again, there's a lot of synergies with these different technologies. And then we have an emerging technologies area, which under that we've we've been edge computing hardware.

19:15
electronics, photonics, as well as hypersonics platforms.

19:25
Interesting. It's fascinating. Yeah. And then within that we have sort of funded as well companies that are in the sort of advanced manufacturing, advanced materials, but they usually align with one of the technology areas that I mentioned.

19:43
So for my listeners, I would absolutely love you to define deep tech and dual technologies, all right? Yeah. Because many, you know, I have quite a large audience now and it's a concept that we don't run into. You don't go to the grocery store and buy. Right, yeah. Yeah, I even had a friend, you know, just a close personal friend that is not in this field at all.

20:11
asked me about that too. So yeah, it's constantly educating, right, the audience, just because it is a crucial part of our society nowadays. So yeah, so I would say I would describe deep tech startups as sort of being distinguished by their intensive focus on sort of cutting edge technologies and scientific achievements. So they operate at the frontier of innovation. And so

20:40
I would say they're characterized by sort of novel solutions that are rooted in scientific breakthroughs or, you know, significant technological or scientific breakthroughs. And you know, I think where a lot of technologies, a lot of conventional startups leverage existing technologies to solve market needs, deep tech startups.

21:06
can often create entirely new markets or radically transform existing ones with their disruptive innovations. And so the reason I think there's probably a name for this set of technologies is because they also face unique challenges in commercializing their innovation. So one characteristic thing and challenge is long development cycles.

21:34
So, you know, they often require years, if not even decades, right, for research and development before you even have some viable prototype, right, that may become a product. High R&D costs, right, so, you know, very capital intensive, you know, and securing funding can be challenging, especially in the early stages for these sets of technologies that

22:01
are often unproven or the market potential is not quite fully understood. And so when it comes to going to market, it may be a little bit more challenging because it's not just a matter of finding product market fit, but it's also about educating potential customers about.

22:28
you know, educating the market right about your technology. Right. And the dual purpose? Yeah, so the dual use purpose really involves having both commercial and defense applications. So defense tech, you know, is sort of a focus on these DOD critical needs for national security to enhance military capabilities.

22:55
And so the dual use aspect means really developing a product or technology that can serve both, civilian and military purposes. And so I will say there are challenges with this though, just because the DOD aspect is mission focused, right? And so you have to worry about finding product mission fit in that sense. Whereas on the commercial side, you have to worry about finding

23:25
product market fit. And so, it can be competing at times, right? Where, the startups and VCs are naturally focused on revenue and increasing sort of their investment and DOD may be focused on the mission, right? And so, it's a matter of really finding where you can overlap both of those missions, right? To really make progress in society.

23:54
And then it's also as you're developing a technology, it's a matter of balancing as well, the different requirements and applications. So, yeah. So the startups that you have been involved with, have they come like a spin out as a technology transfer from a university or not? I mean, where did you? Yeah.

24:22
Where did these companies come from? Their original ideas. Yeah. Yeah, so a lot of the companies that we fund, some of the technologies have begun in a university research lab setting. However, they're usually a little bit further along before we see them and we fund them. So we have partnerships with different programs, including National Security Innovation Network, which is a part of DIU.

24:51
that really focuses more on really helping spin out these technologies out of a research setting and finding those DOD use cases. And again, we also look at companies from all over the US. So, our meetings are usually virtual, which makes it easy for companies to reach us. But yeah, they come from all sorts of settings, right? Some of them have spin out from the lab.

25:20
others from another company. But like I mentioned, by the time we see them and we fund them, they've already had some preliminary traction on the DOD side, whether that means some funding spoken to and, you know, DOD users to really develop the requirements, as well as some commercial preliminary traction, like obtaining letters of support and things like that. Yeah.

25:47
So about the time I met you, I'd also been working in deep tech. And I have heard that perhaps private investment VC money had been crowding out the traditional investment of Nandaluda funding that was under either the DOD or SBIR.

26:16
Right. And for like the last 20 years or so. And the Department of Defense, and actually under, I think it was the Obama administration, Ash Carter kind of flipped the model and said that we can actually do dilutive as well as non-dilutive funding in order to attract again, I don't know whether you're losing the game, but to really get back into the pipeline.

26:44
of potential new businesses and new technologies. Is that, and that's kind of what I've, you know, you perceive it. I also saw that SBIR grants, VCs were no longer allowed to participate probably about eight years ago. So what have your observations been on the public versus private investment in the strategic mission-driven

27:13
sectors is, is it true? What I'm saying is that I mean, there's no probably it's not black or white, right? So what is the transition between public and private investment in these strategic sectors evolve? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So the way I would see it is, you know, a while back, there was really a lack of communication between sort of these public and private entities.

27:42
And so there wasn't much of a collaboration going on. And so, for example, with the establishment of DIU, the purpose was to really establish those public and private partnerships to really further innovation and especially deep tech innovation. And so that was just the first goal, right? Let's improve and establish these public and private partnerships and show that we can work together to fund companies.

28:11
that was a little bit rocky and figuring out, okay, how does that work and who does what? But I think over time, right, those relationships have really become established in some way and have been fortified. And now, DIU and NSIC and all these other DOD entities, we have strong relationships with different BCs and accelerators and other types of organizations.

28:41
they are aware of us and are interested in really knowing what our priorities are. And we are trying to always better communicate that to them. And we're going on funding companies together. So I would say that was sort of the first phase over time. Then, you know, I think you focused on, OK, let's let's let's see if we can if this model works, right? If we can fund companies.

29:10
using OTAs, for example, these prototype contracts, and helps to transition some of this technology into DoD. And I would say now where we're at is now we're really hyper-focused on the, you know, because we already proved we can do this, so now it's, okay, let's focus on the most impact for an urgent technologies to DoD, especially given

29:39
the current geopolitical climate. And so now we've sort of shifted into really a focus on these high impact, high, you know, at large scale and in high urgency technologies and startups. So it's a journey, right? It's an evolution. It's been a journey, yeah. And then on the hardware side, right, again, it's been a little bit different, but again, similar where, you know, there wasn't a lot of, I would say,

30:06
VC interests to really fund, especially hardware, early stage technologies. VCs were typically repelled by that, right, in some sense. And naturally so, right? But I think with standing up NSIC and these other organizations, there's been actually several VCs now in this pre-seed to seed stage, funding.

30:35
hardware companies. And so I would say now the hurdle is probably as we funded these companies, now they go on to series A, series B and now they need BCs at that stage, right? To really help them along and further their scaling, right? And so I would say more work is probably needed on that end now. Very exciting times.

31:05
Let's switch gears and let's go back to your consulting firm. Equitech innovate. Again, I don't know where you find the time, but I, you know, so can you showcase here what it is that you do in serving the underrepresented founders that are in these disruptive technologies? What was it that made you go out on your own?

31:32
Yeah, yeah, so just being in the deep tech space that I'm at, and, you know, dual use as well, you know, one thing that I started noticing, and it's something that I've noticed even from just my own background, right, in STEM, right, sort of one, a lack of diversity and representation, right, of, you know, different backgrounds, especially my backgrounds, right, whether it's

32:02
And so again, this is naturally found in a lot of the, deep tech spaces, right? Finding leadership and innovators in that space. And that, that's a whole nother conversation, right? But there's a lot of hurdles, just even for people getting to that space, right? And so naturally you find sort of a lack of talent there.

32:31
And then the other thing is, you know, once, you know, you have underserved communities in deep tech, right, then you have less of them that are aware or become deep tech founders, right? And so then once you are a deep tech founder, right, then you have these VC funding gaps, right, that you find, right, where

32:56
out of all the VC funding, 136 billion, only 1% goes to Black founders or even smaller to Latinx or Indigenous or to women. And especially being in the field that I am in, I would see very few, again, founders from understaffed communities even applying to our program. But then unfortunately, even those that did apply, sometimes the quality was just not up to par.

33:25
Okay. And so it does tear me a bit, you know, in the sense that, you know, I have compassion, but at the same time, there's a level of quality that we need to maintain and things like that. And that is because they often lack some of the resources and guidance, right? And so even to get to where they're at now has been such a huge feat. And so that's where I saw the opportunity

33:55
strategic consulting and advisory firm to really help underserved founders and give them a little bit more guidance and really help them get their technologies to market. Bringing in my DOD expertise, my deep tech expertise, and also in working with underserved communities throughout my career with different nonprofits and whatnot. All right. Yeah.

34:24
Yeah, being that person that looks like them, right? In the room, right? And you also have, you're a mentor for the Stanford Latino Business Action Network. And you're serving on the board of directors for Science is Elementary. And tell me, is that also part of kind of mission-driven? Speak to me a bit about those collaborations. Yeah, yeah, it is, yeah. So...

34:52
Again, just because I'm interested in helping underserved founders, you know, I must have gone, I think to an event at Stanford, and then that's how I got plugged in to that nonprofit organization. Okay. Yeah, so I became a mentor, that this was before starting Ecotech Innovate. And so again, that's where I also just got to focus on helping underserved founders and really guiding them, get them through that process.

35:22
And then in terms of the nonprofits that I'm a board of directors for, yeah, so one of them is Science is Elementary. And so that nonprofit, we focus on really providing inspiring, innovative, high quality science experiences to preschool and elementary school children from underserved communities. And.

35:48
you know, that involves, you know, teaching students, right, training teachers as well, to really build sustainable and quality sort of curriculum, and then engaging as well with different scientists and STEM professionals, and some of them may serve as role models and mentors and things like that. So again, I didn't have any sort of exposure to this. I wish I did when I was, you know, a young kid. But, you know, I think providing that

36:17
for the industry communities is very important because that's where it begins, right? Yes, but you get exposed to it. Yeah, you get exposed, so you learn about opportunities. And so you can dream to be a scientist or things like that. And also you get rid of those fears, right? That may intimidate you from going into STEM, right? Because now there's familiar. And then also it's important to know that

36:43
going to STEM doesn't necessarily mean you need to be a scientist, right? I've transitioned into this role, which is more business, right? But my science background, I'm able to leverage that and it's sort of a value add. So in the show notes, I would like to call out different ways by which my listeners can contact you. Can you speak to...

37:10
what you would like to have in the show notes? Is that your LinkedIn profile? Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah, so yeah, people can reach me on LinkedIn. I'm on there. Also, www.ancik.mil, you can find my LinkedIn there. And also, equi You can find my, you know.

37:37
LinkedIn information there as well as my email, salvador at equi Excellent. So that will be in the show notes as well as the infographic of NSIC. Thank you. So I am gonna move into the part of the podcast that I repeat with every single guest. I have my own consulting firm, NextAct Advisors, and I really work with

38:06
growth stage companies on being purpose driven, scalable and resilient. And I'd like to ask you, I guess, what does purpose driven mean to you? Yeah, I think to me, I've actually always been drawn to purpose driven work. And so for me, it's the so what, right? So there's a lot of cool things you can do, cool technologies. But to me, it's the why, right? And the so what behind it, that really

38:35
pushes me and motivates me to really do the work that I do because I know I'm making a difference in people's lives in one way or another, in a positive way. So whether it's through the nonprofits that I've been involved with, both at a volunteering level and then now on the board leadership or through NSIC and DIU, right? Helping the war fighter and helping with national security.

39:04
or now with my consulting firm and really focusing on helping underserved founders, I think that I'm just drawn to really purpose-driven work that creates a positive impact in people at scale, right? And maybe lead on to your next question, but that does it in a meaningful way. So that moves the needle. I love it. So you've chosen really in alignment with your own

39:33
Origin story. So scalable growth. What does that mean to you? And maybe wearing your INSEC hat or what was scalable? Yeah. So I think, you know, first in terms of like, you know, deep tech startups and going that route, the focus is first on finding product market fit and really getting there. But once you do,

40:02
I think scaling is really about growing, right? Growing not only your team, but expanding your product and really doing it in an impactful way. And I think along with that comes many challenges, right? That you have to make sure your manufacturing processes are in order and that can...

40:28
really accommodate for the volume and speed at which you need to do that. And so I think before scaling needs to come preparedness, right? Being prepared to grow before you do grow because one thing I find often is, you know, sometimes people are focused on growing and then as you're growing, you're really finding all these things that you can't keep up with, right? And then unfortunately, sometimes that's where startups fail, right?

40:55
And so, and it's sad because you've gone so far right along. And so, since you've worked so hard to get there, it's important to just take a beat and really prepare for the growth because I think that will set you up for success. You know, I'm gonna divert a little bit from the third question. I mean, product market fit. Yeah. And software, right?

41:23
Deep tech technologies, it's really about around technology readiness level, TRLs, right? Scaling right to that level where you are scalable, right? Can you for my listeners again, indulge us in technology readiness levels? Yeah. So, yeah. So there are different, you know, technology readiness levels that really describe sort of.

41:52
where your technology is in its development. With NSIC, for example, we have a minimum TRL three. And so that involves at least having sort of analytical and experimental critical function and or characteristic proof of concept. So we don't fund, you know, sort of paper studies or science projects. And so, that's a TRL level that we focus on.

42:21
And as that TRL advances, then you get into the testing phase and in-field environment testing and things like that. So then you can further refine your technology until it's really ready for a proper use case. And then I would say one thing we focus on now is also

42:48
just on the level of advancement in that TRL, right? So, you know, the more you can advance with the funding, the better and so that involves really having a very strong product development plan, right, in place. So that you get more bang for your buck in a way. Right, right. So the product roadmap. Yeah. Thank you. Let's get back to the sandbox and its resilience.

43:17
What does resilience mean to you? Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it's one thing that someone told me, you know, they said, you're very resilient. And I was like, oh, really? Thank you. And so, yeah, reflecting back in my life, right? Again, as I mentioned before, you know, you'll be dealt different cards in life, you know, punches, right? And sometimes that will be things that you have no control over. And sometimes there'll be consequences because, you know, you're human and you're young and you make mistakes. And...

43:46
you're stubborn at times or things like that. And so I think resilience is, for me it involves a few things. One is not allowing that to define you. And so it means getting back up, but it also means getting back up stronger and wiser, at least for me, right? There's, I think something you can learn about yourself.

44:11
and about the situation and about others, right? In whatever circumstance you're in. And so it's really making sure you learn the most you can about that particular situation so that when you do stand up and move forward, you're able to do so in a more intentional and successful way, hopefully. Thank you. So last question, did you have fun in the sandbox today? Oh, I had a lot of fun. Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah.

44:41
It's been a unique experience. And so, I had a great time speaking to you when we first met and so today as well. So thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you, Sal. To my listeners, if you liked this episode with Sal Badiyurios, CEO and founder of Equitech Innovate, as well as advisor with Insic of the DIU, that's the Defense Innovation Unit. Please.

45:11
sign up for the Founder's Sandbox. It's released monthly. And business owners, corporate directors, and professional service providers are my guests and they help us learn about how to build with strong governance, resilient, scalable, and purpose-driven companies to make profits for good. So signing off for this month, thank you. And again, Sal, thank you for joining me. Thank you.