Purpose: Bridging Gaps for Better Governance

On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Dr. Keith Dorsey – Keith is joining to announce the launch of his book on May 6, 2025 “The Boardroom Journey Practical Guidance for Women to Secure a Seat at the Table”.

Dr. Keith D. Dorsey is an internationally recognized governance expert and NACD Directorship 100™ honoree who equips senior leaders with proven strategies to secure and excel in board roles. With over 25 years of corporate leadership experience and active board service spanning private, municipal, university, and nonprofit sectors, he delivers engaging presentations that blend research-based insights with actionable guidance. Dr. Dorsey speaks on corporate governance, board effectiveness, and strategic leadership, helping organizations build stronger boards and executives navigate their path to the boardroom. His book, The Boardroom Journey, offers practical guidance for expanding boardroom impact and success. Read more about Keith’s experience.

You can find out more about Keith and his upcoming book at: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-keith-d-dorsey-798a2681/

https://www.boardroomjourney.com/book

 

 

 

Transcript: 

00:04
Hi, I'm pleased to announce something very special to me, a new subscription-based service through Next Act Advisors that allows members exclusive access to personal industry insights and bespoke

00:32
corporate governance knowledge. This comes in the form of blogs, personal book recommendations, and early access to the founder's sandbox podcast episodes before they released to the public. If you want more white glove information on building your startup with information like what was in today's episode, sign up with the link in the show notes to enjoy being a special member of Next Act Advisors.

01:01
As a thank you to Founders Sandbox listeners, you can use code SANDBOX25 at checkout to enjoy 25 % off your membership costs. Thank you.

01:20
So welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox.  I am Brenda McCabe, your host and this monthly podcast.  We're now in our third season  and my podcast, the Founder's Sandbox, reaches entrepreneurs, business owners with guests. And these guests  teach us about building resilient, scalable and purpose-driven enterprises,  all with great corporate governance. My mission is simple.

01:49
with this podcast as I really want to assist through my content and my guests, those entrepreneurs and business owners and building the scalable, well-governed and resilient businesses.  And  I like to have in my  guests, corporate directors, primarily to speak about their own experience sitting on corporate boards and building with great corporate governance.  I like to think that we can use the

02:16
power of the private enterprise, be it small, medium, or large, to create change for a better world. And we do some of the storytelling in a fictitious sandbox on the founders or the corporate directors' origin story. I am absolutely delighted that this month I have Dr. Keith Dorsey as my guest. So welcome, Keith. It's great to be here. Thank you, Brenda. Thank you so much.

02:45
While you check many boxes, you're joining today because you have authored a book. It has a launch date of May 6, 2025, so just around the corner. And the title of your book is The Boardroom Journey, Practical Guidance for Women to Secure a Seat at the Table. So kudos to you. Thank you. For, wow, you're a busy person. We'll get to that later.

03:13
you know, where did you find the time and the courage to  publish a book, launch it  in today's  environment? And we'll get to those questions later. So for my guest, Dr. Keith  Dorsey and I go back  many years,  actually prior to you being a doctor, right?  You check many boxes  as a guest. You are a seasoned board member, executive advisor,

03:44
informal coach,  and researcher. I love that.  And it was in preparing your doctoral dissertation that you discovered that, I'm going to quote here, I was reading a compelling study on the effects of gender diversity on corporate governance.  And you basically repurposed your original dissertation to provide actionable guidance  on increasing boardroom diversity.

04:14
And when you switched your dissertation, that topic that you had to defend, otherwise you wouldn't be a doctor today, right?  Was the idea for the book that is launching on May 6th. So again, welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining me.  So we chose as a, my guests know, we chose a title because I at Next Act Advisors am about building purpose, purpose driven companies.  The title

04:43
that Keith and I came up with is, you know, bridging gaps for better governance. So Keith,  share with us kind of your origin story. Go back all the way, although I'm gonna encourage my listeners to purchase your book, but go back to your origin story.  You nailed it in like one page in the book, but tell us where your origins and what was your, not only your boardroom journey, but your journey to where you are today.

05:12
Thank you. I often tell people, Brenda, that this is my third chapter. You know, the first chapter was the US military. actually enlisted in the military in between my junior year of high school that summer and my senior year of high school. I knew before I started my first day of my senior year of high school when I was leaving for basic training in the Air Force. so my first

05:38
chapter was the Air Force for a number of years. was stationed  in Florida, the Republic of Panama, and the United Kingdom  for a number of years. And then I got impatient and decided I wanted to get out. I had a successful early career in the Air Force.  And I said, if I can be this successful in the US Air Force, which is like a large corporation,  imagine what I can do  in an actual corporation.

06:05
I set out on this journey to  explore sales. And that led me to my  second chapter, which was corporate America. And I worked for almost 30 years in corporate America,  primarily  as a turnaround specialist in the area of sales. I would take over the toughest sales  organizations within these large companies and really  lift the hood up  and figure out

06:35
were they having a people product or process problem within the organization and then begin to tweak the areas. And I worked for two large companies, Fortune 500 or Fortune 1000 for almost 17 years and then a Fortune 500 for almost 12 years. And I was just a strategic growth expert. I turn around teams and I would also start teams within the organization.

07:04
to  come up with ways for double digit growth and oftentimes triple digit growth.  And so that's what I did for almost 30 years. And then in January of 2019, I entered my third chapter, which was supposed to be  semi-retirement in this portfolio career.  unfortunately, I failed miserably at retirement and what I've been doing for the past six years in this  almost seven years and this

07:33
portfolio environment as executive advisory work. I also  started serving on boards in which today I served on five boards, two private,  one  municipality, one university, and one nonprofit. And then  I  decided to go back to school to get my doctorate. And so I went back to  school at the University of Southern California and

08:01
pursued my doctorate in organizational change and leadership. all my research was in  the,  you know, at this point,  at that point, all my research  was in the lack of gender and ethnic diversity on corporate boards.  And so-  So, and that's fascinating that you chose your doctoral kind of dissertation and then focus around organizational-

08:31
strategy, right? Yes. Was that based at all  on your 30 years of sales strategy? Were there any analogs? I wonder. There was.  Part of what I would do whenever I would take over a situation that required  me to turn it around,  like I said before, was to really look at the organization.  To look at  many components of the organization, people, product, processes.

09:00
artifacts that are going on, the subcultures, the cultures. And  so I've always been fascinated about it.  And I did things innately and I wanted to learn the science behind  many of the things that I innately did.  And after  really diving into research and studies around organizational change and leadership,  I wish I would have known many of those things that I figured out the science behind back when I was.

09:28
and an actual executive doing it. But nevertheless, by  learning it now and using that in my governance roles, I still have the opportunity to put the science  behind  what I'm doing  as a board member.  And I tell people, whether it's as a board member or my researcher or my writing roles that I have today, that I'm bilingual.  I speak business.

09:56
And I speak academia.  And boardroom lingo, right? Which combines a bit of the two.  I like how you use the word science. You know,  we were chatting  before actually  getting on  air today.  We've known each other primarily because we're both members of the National Association of Group Directors, right?  And  I've been a member since, I don't know,  2016.

10:26
I don't know how long you've been a member,  I, your book is truly a kind of a North star. wish I would have had it when  I began my board journey. I actually started my board journey while in Europe and I got onto public board and I went, Holy cow, I better get trained  and went to the local equivalent  of the NACD in Spain called Instituto de Consejeros Administradores, ICA.

10:56
So for my listeners, I do want to do a shout out  if you are intentional and want to learn more about  what the journey is to getting on  first or subsequent boards.  The  book that Keith has authored is launching on the sixth.  And there is a third section.  And specifically, it's around your capital that you need to

11:25
kind of package. It's called commitment capital. It's trademarked. We're going to get into that but it's truly unique because I've read a lot of board books over my 12, 13 years and I have not seen anything as unique as this. So shout out to you. Thank you. Okay. I wanted to also, you know, ask you what made you

11:53
decide to turn that dissertation into a book? What was the, because writing a book is not for the faint of heart. So it was not on my bucket list. So what happened? You know, this is kind of inspirational for me. You know, what made you go, all right, I've got to get a book out there. Well, I, this has been a serendipitous journey, you know, just even going to  get my doctorate was something that I kind of stumbled into.

12:23
I was dealing with a tiny bit of imposter syndrome  and in dealing with that,  I  assigned something to myself to get rid of my  imposter syndrome. And I said, it's hard to get into  a doctorate program. I just want to see what I, if I can even get in. And so in Keith Dorsey fashion, I probably went a little overboard and I applied to seven different universities and eight different doctoral programs.  And

12:53
But I didn't realize in filling out all those applications,  which was crazy,  was that I needed  a lot of former executives that I worked with and other CEOs and,  like I said, other executives to serve as a reference for me. So I collected 15 people that  I would use for all those applications,  two or three at a time.  And they wrote.

13:22
I guess great things about me because I got into all seven universities, all eight programs, but I really just wanted to boost my ego. I didn't really want to go back to get my doctorate. I needed to solve  for my little bit of imposter syndrome that I was dealing with. And, but when I did enough for were 15 accountability partners saying, which one are you getting in?  Which one are you going to choose? I wrote you a great reference. hope you choose the one that I wrote the reference for.

13:52
And I said, oh no, now what? I gotta get in. Now I really have to do it.  have to get my doctorate. So I really didn't have a strong enough why  to do this to begin with.  But what made me, once I got in and  I chose this problem of practice, which was my second problem of practice. My first was  around shareholder primacy on corporate boards.  And  I stumbled into

14:21
this problem of practice, which was around the lack of gender and ethnic diversity on corporate boards. But I ended up going down this path of corporate board diversity. And I just told you this wonderful story and forgot your question. But you know what made you decide to publish a book? So as I was going through this program,

14:50
and right beginning all this research and I really got into my research probably a little too much  and I was sitting with my dissertation chair and she said, Keith, there's something you need to know. I said, what's that? She said, a good dissertation is a done dissertation. And my friend, you have way too much research out there and you've written so much, you have to narrow your focus.

15:19
And I said, give me some examples. She said, you know, pick an industry, pick an ethnicity group, pick a gender, do something. You have to narrow this down.  And I really pushed back a lot. And one of the sayings at the University of Southern California  in this program, organizational change and leadership doctoral program was trust the process. And so she said, Keith, I know you're pushing back. I know you believe in all this research you  uncovered.

15:49
but you have to trust the process. You have to narrow it down.  I said, okay, if I narrow it down, what do I do with all this research over here  and all this research over there? She said, write a book. And that's how I ended up getting to this point where I actually wrote a book  with all this rich research before my dissertation.  And then I successfully completed my dissertation. had all this information.

16:17
And I did something most people wouldn't do immediately after getting my doctorate. I dove into more research studies. You're kidding. interviewed formally and informally  hundreds of women directors  who have made  that career shift into corporate,  into being an independent director.  And I got so much rich, even more information on their barriers, their enablers, their career.

16:47
and how they were  able to make that shift and  successfully get on corporate boards. And many of these women have been on boards for decades.  that's  how I ended up where I am today with this rich data.  And  I would ask you  to describe the four characters  that are in your book.

17:14
and their names and where were they in the career, right? I wanted to share. I wanted to take a unique approach,  know, any books out there and many  board readiness programs out there that will share  a lot of theory with you a lot of information that is rich that we need to know if you're going to be a student of your profession.  As you mentioned before, I highly recommend  everyone interested in being a board director  to

17:43
go to some sort of board readiness organization and get your education  and then get your certification if you can as well.  And so in  really diving into  all the  women that have successfully made this transition and  the hundreds of interviews, informal and both  formal interviews that I conducted,  I started to see themes.

18:12
in their career at certain ages and certain sections of their careers. And I took a lot of that data and I created these four fictitious women that I would use and talk about as a part of a case study and examples so that when you read a chapter and all this theory and all this information, you could then listen to how they took the information from that chapter and executed on it. And so

18:42
The four women that I created, the first one is Lauren. She's 25 and she's a brand new manager in a corporation. She's actually  been with the corporation for three years as a sales executive and got promoted into our very first sales management position, entry level sales management position. That's Lauren.  Then I have Denise, who is a brand new senior manager in a firm.

19:10
And then I have Michelle who, and Denise is 40 and a brand new senior manager. And then I have Michelle who's a 55 year old executive in a fortune 500 corporation. And, and she has said that she wants to retire in the next three to five years. And then lastly, I have Sharon who is a 62 year old CEO of

19:39
her family business and it's a set. She's the second generation of the family business. She's been the CEO for the past 12 years and she's going to turn the business over to her much younger brother and who will take over as the CEO. All four women said at some point they're going to want to serve on a private or a public corporate board. So what should the 25, 40 year old, 55 year old and 62 year old

20:08
do  at this point of their career  to best prepare themselves for board service? How should a 25-year-old really execute her career? And instead of taking, like many of us have done,  a promotion for the sake of a promotion because they want me and because it pays more,  instead of just doing that but really looking at

20:34
beginning with the end in mind. I ultimately want to be an independent director.  So how should I orchestrate my career? How should the 40 year old make a few more tweaks before she  is at that level where she wants to serve as an independent director?  And then this person who is actually thinking about retiring in the next three to five years,  what tweaks?

20:58
Should she make over the next three to five years the be most attractive and most prepared and known  in the industry to be an independent  director? And lastly, someone who has served on her own board as an executive director and CEO for the past 12 years, but never has been an independent director.  What are the things she should be doing right before she turns the business over?

21:27
to  really show up perfectly as an independent director versus an executive director moving forward.  Thank you.  While the characters are women  and the book  has a tagline,  what is that again?  The  guidance?  The guidance for women to secure a seat at the table by no means is this a book that solely can be read by women.

21:56
I think it speaks to the other gender.  And what I found really unique is that you  had characters at different times  and  moments and section moments and their careers and how to really be intentional.  My favorite chapter, I will tell you, is chapter three. Why?  Find your why. That's the name of the chapter.

22:24
Yes. And it is in alignment with the work I do with  business owners and founders. It's like, what is your North Star? Oftentimes they created the business, they're purpose driven, but articulating the why, you know, why did you go out and, you know, work these hours and put your, you know,  re-mortgage your house  to build this business. Finding that chapter, you know, find your why. And then you're probably the research you did with the over a hundred interviews.

22:54
You ideated this, but I'd love to for you to share. And I think it's very important of all your chapters. This is for me. I think if I were an aspiring  director, independent director, this would be the one that most resonates with me. Find your way. Tell me a bit more about that chapter.  It did for me, Brenda, as well for two reasons. One, because of the research that I uncovered and  the qualitative interviews that I conducted.

23:22
I found out that those that were successful  at making that transition from being an executive or a high-powered government official  to  actually being a board member,  they did find their why. And I also,  you know, in this chapter, this third chapter that I'm in,  I became a managing partner and a practice leader of CEO and board services at a global executive search firm.

23:50
And I would have  meetings with many executives who will actually say, Keith, I want to serve on corporate boards. And I will ask them why. And they really couldn't answer.  And I would ask them specific questions about what type of board, private or public.  And  they would say, Keith, I don't care. Just get me on a paid board.  And that's not going to work. And it doesn't work.

24:16
And so I  dedicated a whole chapter to finding your why,  because  as aspiring board members  or board members seeking their second or third board,  and they kind of found their first board because someone tapped them on the shoulders  and said, we want you,  but they don't know how to replicate getting on their next board because no one's tapping them on their shoulders right now.  I found that by  getting people to reflect  on

24:46
Number one, what brings them joy? What brings them joy in this world? Life's too short. And when you're interviewing for a board role, when you're interviewing for something that brings you joy versus the person who is equally as qualified as interviewing against you for that role, when you show up for something that brings you joy, you light up the room.

25:16
And that energy, that person interviewing you picks up on it and you end up having this banter  and they understand that, you know, this seems to be more important to this person versus that executive.  You all are exceptional executives. Your CVs are outstanding, but sometimes just the fact that you're interviewing some for something that brings you joy could be the differentiator. The other thing is the reflect  on

25:44
on your why and when you are successful, understanding why you're successful. When you do fail and you feel miserable, understanding why you failed and why you felt miserable. And by spending that time reflecting on that, you'll begin to figure out your secret sauce. You'll begin to figure out your superpowers.  You'll begin to figure out

26:10
the value that you actually bring to organizations because you uncover  when you are successful, why you're successful, and when you fail, why you fail, and when you feel miserable, why you feel miserable.  Most people don't take the time to reflect. And then as executives, we have conducted  many  of these vision, mission, and value exercises for our companies. We've met them, we've written them.

26:38
And we've done all these things for our companies, but how often do we actually bring that home and transfer those skills to figure out our own personal vision, mission, and values? And when you take the time to do that in this find your why period of time, you can begin  to figure that out and run  every single situation through those funnels. And that will help you  really find your sweet spot.

27:08
And then you're only interviewing in areas where you can truly bring value.  And so that's why I wrote this section. Wow. It sounds like a lot of work. All right. So your book, think, almost it's a guidebook.  So again, we have the four characters. You can pick up the book and read chapters that don't need to be read from the  sequencer order.  Talk to me.

27:36
I think was really unique about  commitment capital. There are five types you've identified.  And I never read or thought of a concept like this  when kind of packaging my board credentials or others. Speak to me about the commitment capital. Thanks. You don't mind, Brenna. I'll touch briefly on the other four, you know, and then I'll spend more time on commitment capital. But

28:01
The two capitals that you typically hear about when you go through any board readiness program,  as  one is human capital and that talks about your education, your expertise,  your experience throughout  your career. That's the human capital side of things. And then you'll, we talk often about the social capital. That's your network, the people you know  that,  and boards are interested in your human capital and your social capital.

28:29
The social capital side,  they want your contacts. They want your connections. They want your help with the M &A  and finding funding and different things like that, finding the right talent.  Your social capital is a big part of it. And your social capital can help you get on a board as well.  But those are the two that you often hear about. The other three that I wrote about,  one is director capital.

28:58
You don't hear much about that one. And that's similar to human capital. All these skills that you accumulated in education, you accumulated throughout your career that helped you along your career. Director capital is more narrow.  And what are the experiences and education like board readiness training that you need specifically to become a director? And so that's director capital.

29:25
Then I dove into cultural capital, which you don't hear much about. And cultural capital really looks at  from the back when you were five years old in  elementary school, middle school, high school, college,  and the experiences and the people you were surrounded by that you mirrored, you emulated, and the obstacles that you innately had to overcome back in those early years.

29:54
that you called upon either innately or on purpose intentionally  throughout your career to get you through some rough times  through your education period and through your career.  People that can  call back and understand their cultural capital can use that to get on boards.  That's cultural capital. And then the fifth capital was the missing link.  And that's about commitment.

30:21
the ability to do the things you need to do in order to get something done  and  call upon that. And I can give you an example.  I have two different groups  of  women  and directors and  executives that  have  very similar outstanding CVs.

30:44
And they  all have gone through a board readiness program and they all have completed some sort of certification. This group found their way on corporate boards. This group have been  really trying to get on boards for up to five years to no avail. But when you look at them on paper, education experience and success wise, they look similar.

31:11
And the missing ingredient that I found via research  was  those who got on boards did something differently than those who didn't. And the majority of the ones who haven't found their way on boards, when they completed their programs, they were proud of themselves. They took copious notes throughout the program. And they said, done. Let those board positions begin to come my direction.

31:39
And those who actually ended up getting on boards,  who also took copious notes, they were  studious throughout the process, but then they went back home and they executed. They started to make trade-offs in their lives and they started to do things differently.  Some of them gave up TV on Wednesday nights and they no longer watch the three Chicago shows.

32:03
You know,  traded that in so they could begin to do things differently and find the time to do that reflection work  and find the time to network differently and find the time. And so they started to hold themselves accountable via their commitment capital to get things done. To this date, I still have people that will say, Keith, I want to get on a private or a public board.

32:32
And I would look at their background and I said, you know what you really need right now? You really need to serve on a nonprofit board to get some human capital experience while surrounding yourself with some incredible social capital that will see you in action. And they said, Keith, I don't have time for a nonprofit board. Now, the NACD says the average board member, independent director, spends 250 hours a year on each board.

33:01
You're telling me you want me  to  help you find a private or public board  and you don't have time to serve on a nonprofit. Let me tell you, you don't have time to be on a for-profit board and you need to find your commitment capital to make the necessary trade-offs so you do have the times to dot your I's and cross your T's. That's what commitment capital is all about. And that was the missing ingredient.  I love it. So you coin it the missing link.

33:31
the analog with business owners and founders is grit. Yes.  Right. Thunder, but I get I get it. So I, I encourage those that are aspiring  for a  first or subsequent board positions to take a look at that. Now, I'm going to ask a question that  potentially has  in the current climate. And again, this is April of

34:01
2025.  There's been  a lot of backlash in our current administration to remove anything  with the acronym DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion,  remove it from  position, hiring, anything that actually is receiving federal funding.  I'm curious, you also have in your book coined  a term called

34:30
optimal diversity. while I think you had this  term  in all the research, right, in your original writing of this book, could optimal diversity be that analog to the downfall of DEI? I think so. And unfortunately, what's going on in today's society,  mostly in the US, but even  several other places in the world,

34:59
is that organizations, in my opinion, have confused the confused.  And they are saying we need to move away from diversity  and move towards meritocracy. And that we need to get away from checking the box  and move to bringing merit back. And the unfortunate part is diversity, equity, and

35:28
has always  had merit  as the  prerequisite.  It's never been about checking the box or just bringing in an unqualified individual  so that we can  look  from an observable diversity standpoint differently.  It's really been about  one, the  prerequisite and the  table stakes.

35:58
is merit.  And then two, to be able to fish in different ponds, to bring in different people.  So ultimately, we can have that cognitive diversity or diversity of thought brought into the room.  And unfortunately, because of this reason for bringing parody  and  make certain that  your boards and your C suites and your companies

36:26
resembled the stakeholders that you were going after for all obvious reasons.  Unfortunately,  the message has gotten lost as to why we want to do this.  And it's really about mitigating risk, disruption,  finding blue oceans,  and you mitigate your risk by having a representation of that diversity of thought to protect your business and to understand all the stakeholders that you're trying to serve.

36:56
And, the prerequisite was always merit. And so I share with people that meritocracy and diversity truly can and does coexist, do coexist.  And so optimal diversity is the combination  of observable or demographic diversity coupled with diversity of thought is optimal diversity. And that applies to every human being.

37:26
when they begin to reflect and to peel back their cultural, human,  social, all those capitals I mentioned before, they can begin to present themselves in such a way that they can  demonstrate their optimal diversity.  As a managing partner  and a practice leader, a CEO in board services, I will spend time with executives one-on-one from all walks of life and coach them.

37:55
And I remember when I typically would sit down with a white male executive during this period of time,  and I would tell them my story and what my background was on  and my research around my doctorate. They will start off because they're now interviewing with  a  search professional that can help them get on boards. And they will start to interview off like this.  And then as I begin to tell them my background and my research,

38:23
they would end up like this and angry. And then I would talk to them about optimal diversity and they would start to loosen up and then they go right back to this. And I remember in one of my conversations with a Fortune 500 executive, a white male, and I talked to him about optimal diversity and he said, wait a second. He said, Keith, I grew up on a farm and I went to this sort of school and he jumped out of the car.

38:53
like that. he said, I do bring diversity to the table. And I said, yes, you do. But I've never had to present myself that way before. And what you just did was you taught me to reach into myself and figure out how I differentiate myself from any other type of executive. And I never had to do that before. And that's optimal diversity.

39:20
Absolutely. So if you heard it here on the founder sandbox, optional diversity refers to ensuring that observable demographic diversity is coupled with diversity of thought. And meritocracy and diversity are not opposing  aims, but instead are symbiotic and share a common goal. So thank you, Keith, for developing the concept of optimal diversity.  And I must read.

39:50
coming out on May 6.  I would like you to have  your time on air to provide my listeners with how they may contact you because not only are you launching your book  on May 6,  the boardroom journey.  I do believe you have one on one coaching  as well as you do  speaking opportunities.

40:19
Keith, how's it best to contact you? Well, you can find me  on my website, is boardroomjourney.com. Okay.  And my email is keith at boardroomjourney.com. You can also find me on LinkedIn under Dr. Keith D. Dorsey. And so  those are,  you know, several different ways you could find me. And when you go to boardroomjourney.com,

40:47
I'm really attacking this  approach  of making certain that we take board governance very seriously  and helping to equip individuals at various stages of their career to be best prepared for board service.  I  want  everyone, as I mentioned before, to go through some sort of board readiness program with the many different type of board readiness programs out there.

41:16
But then once you've done that, I focus on three areas.  One is with, I'm sorry, Brenda, you want to ask me a question? No, that's okay, one.  One is with  the boards themselves. I'm gonna challenge via their consulting offerings,  challenge boards to really take a look at their board members they have today.  And really,  many boards will have skilled matrices.

41:42
Yes. And so they will look at the skills matrix and maybe highlight 12 different functional skills. And then they want to outline their board members and how they rate those different skills. And then they stop there. And I consider the skills matrix to be the top 10 % of a iceberg. OK. And that's the part you can see. The bottom 90 % below the surface is around their competencies.

42:12
And in our consulting,  I challenge boards to actually measure the  competencies  of their board members as well.  And those are the things below the surface, their behavioral traits and things like that, because you wanna have the right mix  of independent directors on your board.  And then  look at where they have a redundancy  of experiences in their  functional areas, skill sets, as well as competencies.

42:41
and think about their strategy moving forward and where do they have gaps?  And so that's one half of what, you know, Boardroom Journey does. The other part  is with individuals.  And what I have uncovered is that many people will go through a program, but they don't execute, as I mentioned before, a commitment capital.  So one of the offerings we have is you get an accountability partner.  And with the...

43:10
the accountability side of things,  the accountability partner will meet up with you and have 30 minute one-on-ones with you,  almost unlimited one-on-ones throughout the year,  the numbers so high. But you cannot get the next meeting with your accountability partner until you have proven you've done the things that we talked about in the prior meeting. And so that's an offering.  And then the other offering,

43:40
is six months  of one-on-one coaching, two times  for one hour each time, twice a month.  And that one-on-one coaching is taking a lot of the principles and action items from the book, The Boardroom Journey.  And instead of doing it in asynchronous sort of fashion, we're going through it together one-on-one  to make certain that you begin to do the things

44:06
differently to get different results. The saying is successful people do what unsuccessful people don't do. And the goal there with the one-on-one coaching is to have you do the things that you need to do in order to get to where you would like to go. And so that's what the boardroom journey as a company and a practice actually does for individuals. Thank you for sharing that. This will be in the show notes, And I'm very excited to.

44:35
provide some exposure and my listeners, particularly those that are considering  your own boardroom journey. I'm going to switch gears back to the founder sandbox. I am  passionate about  resilience,  purpose-driven and scalable growth. And I love to do a round the round with my guests and what does that meaning of resilience mean to you? Each of my guests has a different...

45:04
Yeah. So please. me, resilience comes down to when you truly have a true north and you believe in your true north, having the intestinal fortitude to do things that you need to do in order to get it done  and  not giving up right when you're at that point where things can actually turn around. That's to me what resilience is about. But you first got to know your true north.

45:33
have the intestinal fortitude, encourage  to stick with it until you hit them. Thank you. How about purpose driven? The title of your episode is purpose, Yes.  Bridging gaps for better governance. But beyond that, what is purpose driven? What has made you be so purposeful? That's a great question, Brenda. I would have to say

46:00
right back to that true north, know, finding your why and  really spending the time to think about where are there  unmet needs  in the marketplace.  And, you know, I've worked with some incredible organizations and sometimes we  are too insular and we come up with some great things.

46:25
that we created that we think the market should be interested in.  And the market says, you know what, that was cute, but no. And so  I feel when you start with from the client's perspective and you uncover where there are unmet needs, then and only then can you truly be purposeful  in meeting those unmet needs. And that feels good here  and you're solving something that's needed in the

46:55
I get  it. You heard it here. Q. Dorsey's definition of purposefulness. Scalable. So I think that what you have done here  by publishing what was originally your dissertation and then building  consulting a practice around is actually scalable. What's scalable for you?  You know, something  that can have a process.

47:24
Okay, repeatable process around it.  I've watched businesses  succeed and then fail because they built something  that was needed for in the marketplace, but they allowed themselves  to  get off the beaten track because they're trying to be all things for everybody.  And  for me,

47:52
when a business is truly scalable, they found something, they met an unmet need  and they know their sweet spot and they stay in their sweet spot.  Now, do they disrupt themselves  to stay ahead on the bell shaped curve? Absolutely.  But they build something that has a repeatable process and they can keep their margins down because they're not just being there for everybody. To me, that's what scalable is all about. Find in their sweet spot and execute it.

48:22
Excellent.

48:25
Fantastic. question. Did you have fun in the sandbox today, Keith? I actually did. The problem here, Brenda, is I just enjoy having conversations with you. so  we did that via podcast. We did what we normally do,  but via podcast.  That's  excellent. So I had a blast. Thank you. And what about you? I always have fun.  I love the fact that my guests

48:55
can tell their stories.  They're very authentic. You're very authentic.  You live your purpose.  actually, that's why  my guests come to me, right? And say, is  the podcast right now, a growing channel.  And I do have a large fellowship now. You can also follow me on YouTube.  to my guests, I hope you enjoyed this month's.

49:24
podcast. Actually, this month is a lot I published a lot about corporate governance the month of April. So if you like this episode with Dr. Keith Dorsey, sign up for the monthly release  of this podcast, the founder sandbox where my guests are founders, business owners, corporate board directors, authors.  And you'll learn about how to build strong governance for resilient, scalable and purpose driven companies to make profits for good.

49:54
So thank you for joining me again, Keith. It was a pleasure. Thank you.