Grief Out Loud
Remember the last time you tried to talk about grief and suddenly everyone left the room? Grief Out Loud is opening up this often avoided conversation because grief is hard enough without having to go through it alone. We bring you a mix of personal stories, tips for supporting children, teens, and yourself, and interviews with bereavement professionals. Platitude and cliché-free, we promise! Grief Out Loud is hosted by Jana DeCristofaro and produced by Dougy Center: The National Grief Center Children & Families in Portland, Oregon. www.dougy.org
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Time Keeps Moving, But She Doesn’t: Mackenzie Galloway-Cole On Grief And New Year’s
12/22/2025
Time Keeps Moving, But She Doesn’t: Mackenzie Galloway-Cole On Grief And New Year’s
In the fall of 2023, Mackenzie Galloway-Cole was living out her rom-com-worthy love story with her wife Megan in New York City. Then, on an ordinary night in November, Megan collapsed and died a few hours later from a sudden cardiac event. In the aftermath, Mackenzie had to find her way in this newly shattered world without Megan, her anchor and biggest cheerleader. Mackenzie reflects on the shock of becoming a young widow, the added layers of grief that come with queer partner loss, and the painful realities of navigating death care systems that often default to heteronormative assumptions. Together, Jana and Mackenzie talk about the isolating nature of sudden and unexplained death, the importance of finding people who “get it,” and the ways time itself becomes a particularly painful aspect of grief. Mackenzie also shares why New Year’s can feel like a uniquely brutal grief milestone, how absence accumulates as life continues, and how Megan’s love still shapes the way she takes care of herself today. This conversation holds space for heartbreak, dark humor, love stories, and the not-so-quiet ways grief rewires daily life - especially when the person you most want to turn to is the one who died. In this episode, we discuss: The story of how Megan and Mackenzie met and fell in love Sudden death and the trauma of an ordinary day turning catastrophic The intersection of being a young, gay widow Navigating hospitals, funeral homes, and death administration as a queer spouse Why the small, everyday moments can hurt more than the big ones How the second Christmas can feel even harder than the first New Year’s as a “sneaky” grief holiday How the choices you make in life can reflect and honor your person who died Mackenzie Galloway-Cole writes about grief at on Substack and can also be found on Instagram at
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Brennan Wood On How Grief Is To Feel, Not Fix - Even At The Holidays
12/11/2025
Brennan Wood On How Grief Is To Feel, Not Fix - Even At The Holidays
It’s our annual holiday episode, this time with Dougy Center Executive Director and . Brennan first encountered Dougy Center after her mom, Doris, died of breast cancer three days after Brennan’s 12th birthday. She has since navigated almost four decades of holiday seasons with grief along for the ride. She shares about the early years that were awful; the young-adult years she spent volunteering away from family; and how, as an adult, she’s learned to hold both grief and joy while creating new traditions for her own family. Whether this is your first or 41st holiday season with grief, this conversation offers validation, tangible suggestions, and new ways to think about this time of year. We discuss: How attending a peer grief support group as a teen introduced Brennan to the idea that grief is to feel, not fix. Accepting that not everything has to be bright and shiny, especially during the holidays. Recalling the first Christmas after her mom died and why it felt awful. New traditions she's created as an adult with her own family. Grounding rituals Brennan uses, especially during the holidays. Why it's okay to be mad at holiday traditions you used to love. Need additional tips and suggestions for this time of year? Check out our past episodes and our Watch Brennan's TEDxPortland Talk - Read her A Kid's Book About Grief - Learn more about Brennan -
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Beyond Silence: Kyndal Parks On Honoring Her Grandfather & Advocating For Better Grief Support
12/04/2025
Beyond Silence: Kyndal Parks On Honoring Her Grandfather & Advocating For Better Grief Support
When Kyndal Parks’ grandfather died on Black Friday - the day after Thanksgiving – she lost one of her biggest supporters and confidants. While navigating her grief, Kyndal was also navigating life as a college student where she often felt unseen in her grief by faculty and the wider institution. What began as a class assignment turned into a powerful audio piece about loss, legacy, and the urgent need for grief-informed spaces on college campuses, particularly at HBCUs where collective trauma, silence, and resilience intertwine. In this conversation, Kyndal shares about her grandfather’s extraordinary life - from his childhood in the 1940s, to living with a disability, to his time as a Black Panther, a gardener, a traveler, and the steady source of love that shaped her into the person she is today. She talks about the traditions they built together, how her grief shows up even from 2,000 miles away, and why vulnerability and community care are essential if we want to build environments where students who are grieving feel supported. Kyndal also explores the cultural and historical patterns of grief in Black communities, the pressure to “push through,” and her vision for a world where grief is met with connection, not silence. We discuss: What made Kyndal’s grandfather such an influential figure How his death reshaped her understanding of family, holidays, and identity What grief looked like at her college, and within her family and community Why she created her audio piece and what she hopes listeners take from it The need for vulnerability, community support, and grief-informed care at HBCUs and beyond How her grandfather continues to guide her today Check out , the program that helped connect us with Kyndal and her audio piece.
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Going To College With Grief - Loss In Young Adulthood
11/25/2025
Going To College With Grief - Loss In Young Adulthood
When Hilary was 18, her oldest sister, Kelly, died from a rare cancer called DSRCT (desmoplastic small round cell tumor). In the same year, Hilary left for college and her parents divorced - three life-altering events that reshaped her relationships, sense of stability, and the early years of adulthood. In this episode, we talk about: Growing up as the youngest of three sisters and the creative, nurturing bond she shared with Kelly Navigating Kelly’s diagnosis, treatment, and death while still in high school Trying to appear “fine” in college while carrying immense grief The ways her family dynamics shifted after Kelly’s death and her parents’ divorce How grief continued to evolve across developmental stages, from early adulthood into her mid-30s The unexpected moments - like baking bread or bringing home a new pet – that bring new waves of grief How her experience shaped her work as a therapist supporting others in pain Hilary also shares what she wishes she had known about grief at 18, how exhausting it can be, and how she learned to make space for grief that shows up differently over time.
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The Friends We Make In Grief
11/14/2025
The Friends We Make In Grief
When Cassie arrived at Dougy Center for her first peer grief support group for young adults after her dad died, she sat in the parking lot wondering if she could even walk inside. When she did, she found people her age who understood what it meant to have a parent die - people who would end up shaping her life in ways she never imagined. In this episode, Cassie talks about how grief changed her, what it was like to find community in a peer support group, and how those friendships continue to support her years later. Now, as a volunteer facilitator in a peer grief support group for children, Cassie reflects on what it means to come full circle - turning the care she received into care she now offers others. We Discuss: The early days and weeks after her dad's death How grief can be physically painful Finding connection and laughter in a support group Building lifelong friendships with people who "get it" Learning to make space for grief on purpose The importance of rituals and traditions What it's like to return as a volunteer to support children who are grieving The unexpected gifts of friendship Cassie's discovered in grief Learn more about Dougy Center's and for Young Adults ages 18-40.
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Caring For The Caregivers
11/04/2025
Caring For The Caregivers
When you’re grieving, “Take care of yourself,” might be the last thing you want to hear. So what does self-care actually look like for a parent or caregiver who is grieving? Rebecca Hobbs-Lawrence, MA, who coordinates the Pathways Program at Dougy Center for families facing an advanced serious illness, joins us to share practical tools for caregivers who are trying to balance taking care of others with tending to themselves, along with crucial advice for friends and family who want to provide truly meaningful support. We discuss: The many roles caregivers hold before and after a death Balancing others’ needs while grieving yourself How adults and kids experience grief differently When the surviving parent had a complicated relationship with the person who died Simple, doable self-care for caregivers What real, helpful support looks like from friends and community Learning how to ask for and accept help Rebecca Hobbs-Lawrence, M.A., is the & Grief Services Coordinator at Dougy Center, The National Grief Center for Children & Families.
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Mourning Air - Leena Magdi On Grieving Her Brother And Her Homeland
10/23/2025
Mourning Air - Leena Magdi On Grieving Her Brother And Her Homeland
When Leena Magdi’s younger brother, Hamoodi, was killed, her world shifted entirely. In her debut book , Leena explores how grief reshapes identity, faith, and love. In this conversation, Leena shares what it meant and means to be Hamoodi’s sister, how sibling grief is often dismissed, and how writing helps her navigate the grief. Leena also shares about her family’s forced displacement after war broke out in Sudan less than a year after Hamoodi’s death - and how she’s learning to grieve both her brother and her home. We discuss: What it means to be a sister after a sibling dies The invisibility of sibling grief Finding connection through spirituality and writing Grieving a home and a country - and the additional losses her family experienced in fleeing to Egypt from Sudan after war broke out How Leena stays connected to Hamoodi About Leena Magdi: Leena Magdi is a Sudanese-American writer and poet, author of , and mother of two. She was born in Sudan, raised in California, and currently lives in Egypt. You can find her on Instagram and TikTok @xleenamagdix.
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Grieving A Sudden Or Unexpected Death With Dr. Jennifer Levin
10/15/2025
Grieving A Sudden Or Unexpected Death With Dr. Jennifer Levin
When someone you know dies suddenly, everything changes in an instant. The world you once knew can feel unfamiliar and unsafe, and finding your way back to even the smallest sense of stability can feel impossible. In this episode, we talk with , therapist, educator, podcast host, and author of . Jennifer specializes in supporting people grieving sudden or unexpected deaths that can completely upend how we see the world and shift our sense of safety. We discuss: The differences and overlap between the terms: sudden, unexpected, and traumatic How grief affects the body, mind, and nervous system What it means when the “assumptive world” - our sense of how life should work - is shattered Ways to support yourself when sensory memories of the death are overwhelming How schools and workplaces can better prepare and respond when a community member dies About the Guest: Dr. Jennifer Levin is a grief therapist, educator, and host of the podcast. She’s the founder of and the creator of . Her new book, , is available now from New Harbinger Publications. Resources Mentioned: by Dr. Jennifer Levin by Mary-Frances O’Connor by , Dougy Center resources for supporting children, families, and schools:
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Grief Is Forever, But So Is Love: Tiriq Rashad On Loss & Creativity
10/06/2025
Grief Is Forever, But So Is Love: Tiriq Rashad On Loss & Creativity
When , artist, poet, and performer, sits down to write, he’s not just telling his own story - he’s carrying his daughter, his brother, and his mother with him. In this conversation, Tiriq shares the layered ways grief has shaped who he is: from the death of his first child before she was born, to growing up caring for his brother who lived with cerebral palsy and autism, to the sudden death of his mother. Through it all, Tiriq’s foundation in caregiving, service, and community continues to guide him - both in his personal life and in his art. His new album, Kiss My Art, is woven through with grief, including themes of regret, forgiveness, and deep unwavering love. Each track on Kiss My Art reminds listeners that grief doesn’t end, it evolves and we evolve with it. We talk about: How the death of his daughter shapes his life perspective – and his parenting. How caregiving for his brother as a child set him on the path to social work. The trauma and legacy of his mother’s death in a car accident. Choosing to face grief without leaning on vices. Writing and performing as practices of healing. How the death of a public figure can impact those who never even met them. Connect with Tiriq Rashad: Website: tiriqrashad.com Instagram: Official Music Video
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Now I’m An Adult Orphan: Tyler Feder On Dancing At The Pity Party, Again
09/16/2025
Now I’m An Adult Orphan: Tyler Feder On Dancing At The Pity Party, Again
When was 19, her mom died of cancer, an experience she captured years later in her bestselling graphic memoir . In the years since, Tyler has described herself as a “dead mom person” - reflecting just how much of her life was shaped by the death of her mother. But this past winter, Tyler’s dad also died, adding a new aspect to her identity, this time as an adult orphan. In this episode, we discuss: The contrast between her parents’ personalities – mom (quiet, creative, cat-like), dad (gregarious, emotional, dog-like) - and which of those aspects Tyler carries forward in hers. How writing, art, and community help her process grief. One of Tyler's favorite questions about her parents. Why tangible keepsakes matter so much. The difference having a parent die when you’re still a teenager vs an adult. How her family approached her father’s illness and death compared to her mom’s. Living with worry and fear about her own health and mortality. Follow Tyler’s work on Instagram .
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Rabbit Heart - A Mother's Murder, A Daughter's Story
09/04/2025
Rabbit Heart - A Mother's Murder, A Daughter's Story
In 1986, when was eight years old, her mother was abducted, sexually assaulted, and murdered in Oklahoma. Decades later, Kristine tells her story in , a memoir weaves together her fragmented childhood memories, growing up with grief, and then as an adult, reckoning with the painful details of her mother's death. The course of the book shifts when there is a break in the cold case of her mother's murder, leading to a trial and eventual conviction of Kyle Eckhart, one of the men responsible. In this conversation Kristine reflects on what it means to grieve for her mother and for the violent way she died. She explores the power of imagination in grief, the struggle of piecing together memories shaped by others, and how writing became both an outlet and a way to preserve a connection to her mother. Together, Jana and Kristine talk about: What she remembers about her mother and which of those memories are shaped by what others remember. How Kristine reacted to media portrayals of her mother's life and death. What she remembers about learning her mother was abducted and then the day she found out she was murdered. What it was like to grow up not knowing who killed her mother. The story behind the title of her memoir, Rabbit Heart. The role of imagination and fantasy in both childhood and adult grief. The emotional impact of learning new, violent details about her mother's death, and how this knowledge changed Kristine's relationship with her grief over time. How the publication of Rabbit Heart allowed her to connect with her mother's memory in a new way. Content note: this episode includes details of violence, sexual assault, and murder, along with some adult language. Please listen with care. grew up in a small suburb of Oklahoma City and is now an associate professor at West Chester University, outside Philadelphia. She holds an MFA in Poetry from New York University and a Ph.D. in Creative Writing and Literature, with a focus in nonfiction, from the University of Houston. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in Fourth Genre, Crimereads, Crab Orchard Review, Brevity, Passages North, and Silk Road. Her essay "Cleaving To," was named a notable essay in the Best American Essays 2013. Kristine's debut memoir Rabbit Heart is currently available from Counterpoint Press.
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Relief With Some Grief - When An Abusive Parent Dies
08/27/2025
Relief With Some Grief - When An Abusive Parent Dies
When someone dies, the story is often one of sadness, longing, and loss. But what happens when the person who died was also someone who caused great harm? For Kathy, who was sexually and emotionally abused by her father, his death when she was 11 brought more relief than grief. In this conversation, Kathy shares how her early experiences with grief and trauma shaped her path as a social worker and volunteer, including her current work with teens and tweens who are grieving. We explore: What it was like to have her dad die while carrying the painful secret about his abuse The mixed emotions of grieving someone who caused great harm How volunteering gave Kathy a sense of purpose and visibility at a young age The importance of creating space for young people - and adults - to share the full range of feelings about the person who died, including the hard and complicated ones What Kathy would want her 11-year-old self, and other kids in similar situations, to know Kathy’s story broadens our understanding of grief, reminding us that it’s never one-dimensional, and that sometimes, relief outweighs grief. Note: this episode includes references to childhood sexual and emotional abuse.
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Befriending Grief: Why She's Your Guide, Not Your Enemy – Dr. Jamie Eaddy
08/01/2025
Befriending Grief: Why She's Your Guide, Not Your Enemy – Dr. Jamie Eaddy
How do we move from seeing grief as something to fix or overcome, to understanding it as a lifelong companion and guide? In this conversation with Rev. educator, death doula, founder of , and creative force behind she invites us to reimagine grief as a friend who helps us navigate loss, change, and transition. Drawing from her personal lineage of grief through the deaths of her grandmother, cousin, and uncle, Dr. J. shares how these experiences shaped her work supporting individuals and communities, especially those living at the intersections of marginalization and oppression. We explore: How personal experiences with family deaths shaped Dr. Eaddy's career path Redefining grief beyond death - as our natural response to loss, change, transition, unmet expectations, unrealized dreams, and shattered assumptions The concept of "befriending grief" - viewing grief as a companion and guide rather than something to overcome The Ratchet Grief Project® - creating space for marginalized communities to grieve authentically without conforming to restrictive societal expectations How racism, sexism, and systemic oppression create additional layers of grief for Black communities The harmful expectations of "acceptable" grief Current trends in grief work, including the rise of death doulas and increased awareness of non-death losses Unlearning narratives around strength, silence, and emotional suppression The importance of reclaiming parts of ourselves - like joy - that get left behind in survival To learn more: Follow Dr. J. on IG. Visit Stay tuned for coming Fall, 2025
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One Last Stroller Walk - Navigating Pet Loss
08/01/2025
One Last Stroller Walk - Navigating Pet Loss
Welcome to a special "podcast takeover" episode. This week, , creator of and , steps in to interview Jana. Their conversation centers on Jana's beloved Boston Terrier, Captain, who died in December 2024 at the age of 15. Lindsey understands this heartache well, as her own sweet dog, Birch, died in May 2022. As a skilled interviewer and a thoughtful friend in grief, Lindsey was the perfect person to explore Jana's experience of loving and grieving for Captain. Together, Lindsey and Jana delve into how Captain came into Jana's life, the complexities of caregiving for an aging pet, the difficult decisions surrounding their end-of-life, and the subtle (and not-so-subtle) ways pet grief can be minimized or dismissed, by others and sometimes even by us. This conversation weaves between the personal and professional, touching on: How Captain became a cherished part of Jana's life The physical and behavioral changes Captain experienced in his last two years Navigating personal loss as a grief professional The challenging dynamics of deciding when and how to say goodbye Captain's last day Jana's evolving relationship with Captain's belongings Expressing grief through writing and sharing on Instagram () The struggle of making space for pet grief within a field primarily focused on human loss How grief rituals evolve over time, and the importance of allowing ourselves permission for these changes A quick content note: we’ll be discussing end-of-life caregiving for a pet, including the decision-making process around euthanasia. We know these are tender topics, so please take care as you listen. The resource we mention: , MEd, CT (she/her) is an Emmy award-winning filmmaker, international speaker, and grief educator. In her current role as a senior producer/director and instructional designer at PBS/NPR affiliate WPSU, Lindsey focuses on projects related to grief, trauma, and mental health. She is the creator of and, founder of, and serves on the Board of Directors for the (NACG). She’s also an instructional designer and content creator for the Yale Child Study Center’s . Lindsey earned her bachelor’s degree in Cinema and Digital Arts from Point Park University, her master’s degree in Learning, Design, and Technology from Penn State, and is through the Association for Death Education and Counseling (ADEC). She’s a dog mom, avid reader, and rock climber.
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Grieving The Death Of A Child - Susie And Nick Shaw’s Story
07/11/2025
Grieving The Death Of A Child - Susie And Nick Shaw’s Story
When Susie and Nick Shaw’s nine-year-old son William died in a skiing accident, their world shifted permanently. In the six years since that day, they've found ways to carry their grief and stay connected to William, while continuing to honor the boy who inspired so much good in their lives and in their community. In this deeply moving conversation, Susie and Nick reflect on William’s life—his empathy, his humor, and the motto he created for himself in the year before he died: “Be Yourself.” A simple but powerful phrase that inspired their nonprofit, . Together, we discuss: The day William died and what they’ve come to understand about control, safety, and loss Navigating grief as individuals and as a couple Supporting their son Kai in grieving for his brother Raising Bodhi, their child who was born after William’s death Creating family rituals, including monthly taco nights and birthday celebrations Returning to Big Sky, Montana to visit the spot where William died and reclaim their love of skiing Their new project, The Greenhouse, a house for families who are grieving to take a break from daily life Whether you’re a parent or a caregiver who's grieving, a supporter of one, or someone walking alongside a family coping with heartbreaking grief, this conversation highlights the power of honesty, connection, and intentional grief work. Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of child death, trauma, and detailed descriptions of the day William died. More from Susie & Nick: Susie's writing: Susie on IG: Nick's book: Learn more: Donate or get involved with The Greenhouse Project:
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“We Just Kept Going” - Two Sisters, Twenty Years After Their Mom Was Killed
07/03/2025
“We Just Kept Going” - Two Sisters, Twenty Years After Their Mom Was Killed
Jessie was 21. Molly was 11. Two days after their joint birthdays, their mom, Jill, was murdered by Molly’s father. In the hours, days, and years that followed, there was little room for grief. Jessie and Molly were expected to keep going — and they did. But that forward momentum came at a cost. It’s been nearly 20 years, and only recently have Jessie and Molly begun to revisit what happened and what it’s meant to live with unspoken grief and unacknowledged trauma. As part of that process, they discovered a manila envelope packed away in storage - inside were eight children’s book manuscripts written by their mom in the 1980s. Finding those stories sparked a new chapter of connection with their mom and motivated them to work towards getting them illustrated and published. Note: This conversation includes descriptions of domestic violence, stalking, violent death, and suicide. If you or someone you know needs support, see the list of resources below. In this conversation, Jessie and Molly talk about: What their mom was like and what she meant to each of them Their vastly different experiences of the day she was killed What stood in the way of them naming what they lived through as abuse and trauma How grief became something they held privately, even from each other The impact of finally receiving permission to feel and grieve Their efforts to get their mom’s children’s stories published Follow along and support their project: GoFundMe: . Dougy Center: - 1-800-799-7233 - 988
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It Opened Me Up To Love - Danielle LaRock
06/23/2025
It Opened Me Up To Love - Danielle LaRock
How do you keep your heart open to love after it's been broken apart by grief? was just 19 when her father died of a heart attack. In 2022, her partner Ian died suddenly. Then, in 2024, her beloved dog Blue died, and with Blue went many shared memories of time spent with Ian. The experience of loving and being loved by Ian opened up places in Danielle's heart that had closed down after her father's death. That openness has stayed with her, even as she grieves for both Ian and Blue. That ongoing love and connection have shaped Danielle's grief and the ways she tries to support others who are also grieving. We discuss: How Danielle coped - and didn't - as a college student after her dad's death The isolation of being surrounded by peers who hadn't experienced the death of a parent Meeting Ian as children and reconnecting as adults How Ian's own experience with the death of his dad helped him understand and support her grief Being present for Ian's medical crisis and emergency brain surgery The trauma of witnessing his death and being the person who had to tell his friends and family How experiencing deep love with Ian changed her approach to all relationships Learning to celebrate the milestones of others while grieving the loss of the ones she would have shared with Ian The spiritual awakening Danielle experienced after Ian's death Discovering traditional therapy didn't work for her The value of online support groups, specifically for young widows & widowers Exploring ways to support others in their grief Guest Bio is the co-host of the popular podcast , which explores dark history and tragedy in outdoor spaces. A former veterinary technician from New England, Danielle has become a compassionate voice in the grief community, using her own experiences with loss to help others navigate their journeys. Connect with Danielle on .
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How They Died Matters, A Daughter's Story - Kari Lyons-Price, MSW
06/19/2025
How They Died Matters, A Daughter's Story - Kari Lyons-Price, MSW
Sometimes we can't really begin to understand grief - ours or anyone else's - if we don't have space to talk about the death. The context surrounding how someone died matters and can shape our grief in meaningful ways. This was true for who was a caregiver for her parents, Hal and Sylvia, for many years. They died three years apart, her dad in 2019 and her mom in 2022, and the circumstances of their deaths greatly impacted Kari and her grief. We discuss: How her parents lived - and how they each died Why their death stories matter when it comes to grief The anger and resentment in the immediate aftermath of her father's death What she's done to come to terms with the circumstances of each of their deaths The role advocacy and education in the realm of care facilities played in that process Making decisions about her mother's care in light of how her father died and the pandemic The ongoing, slow nature of grief when someone has a long-term degenerative illness What it's meant to no longer be a caregiver for her parents Overcoming her family's narrative of autonomy and learning to accept support in grief Where Kari finds her foundation now Want to hear more from Kari? Check out her podcast,
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The Longevity Of Grief
06/16/2025
The Longevity Of Grief
In this episode, Camila returns to Grief Out Loud six years after her first appearance to share how grief continues to evolve. What began with the sudden loss of her mother at age 21 has now expanded to include the ongoing grief of caregiving for her father, who is living with dementia and Alzheimer's disease. Camila discusses the unique challenges of long-distance caregiving, the differences between sudden loss and gradual decline, and how these two types of grief intersect in her life. She also discusses navigating major life milestones—including getting married during the pandemic—without her mother's presence. We Discuss: The difference between sudden loss and the "slow grief" of watching a parent decline How grief has shifted in the 15+ years since her mother's unexpected death Losing her father as the co-archivist of her mother's life and their family history Managing long-distance caregiving The failures of the elder care system in the U.S. The role of chosen family and support Wedding planning and the question of how to honor her mother's memory The complexity of being a queer person in traditionally heteronormative grief support spaces Feeling like she no longer has parents, even though her father is still alive The therapeutic value of pets Finding moments of connection and joy with her father despite his condition Using poetry as a processing tool for grief About the Guest: Camila is a poet who has published three books of poetry: (about losing her mother) (about falling in love and healthy relationships) (about caring for her father and how different types of grief intersect) This episode is the third in our 2025 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving. Grief Out Loud is a production of Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families in Portland, Oregon.
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When Death Is Scheduled – Mark Chesnut On Grieving His Sister
06/02/2025
When Death Is Scheduled – Mark Chesnut On Grieving His Sister
In this deeply personal episode, Mark Chesnut returns to Grief Out Loud to share his experience of losing his sister Glynn to ovarian cancer. Glynn chose medical aid in dying after nearly four years of treatment, giving Mark and his family the unusual experience of knowing when death would occur. This conversation explores the complexity of "scheduled death," the challenges of finding appropriate language to discuss medical aid in dying, and how knowing the date changed their family's grieving process. is a journalist, editor, public speaker, and the author of: Mark previously appeared on in October 2022, discussing caring for his mother at the end of her life. Mark lives in New York City with his husband Angel and recently wrote about his sister's experience with medical aid in dying. This episode is the second in our 2025 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving. Grief Out Loud is a production of Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families in Portland, Oregon.
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Closer In Grief - Building A Relationship After Someone Dies
05/15/2025
Closer In Grief - Building A Relationship After Someone Dies
When someone dies, our relationship with them doesn't just disappear. Sometimes the relationship changes in ways we never expected, allowing us to feel closer to them than we did when they were alive. This can leave us learning to grieve not just for what we had, but for what never got the chance to have with them. In this episode we talk with Never Faull about grieving for their father, who died in 2018 from cirrhosis of the liver. Nev shares how their relationship with their father was distant during his life and how they've found ways to create a deeper connection with him after his death. We also discuss what it was like for Nev, who came out as trans six months after their dad dies, to navigate grieving while also celebrating a new unfolding in their identity. Topics we discuss: Navigating grief in complex parent-child relationships The impact of undiagnosed autism on family connections Creating meaning and relationship after death The symbols and rituals that help Nev feel a connection with their dad's presence Queer and trans grief resources Never Faull is a queer and trans, disabled, autistic BIPOC writer, photographer, facilitator, and grief tender based in Portland. they explore the intersections of memory, identity, and mourning in their creative work. their current project, The Dead Dad Camera Club, started with the camera their dad left behind, and has become a way to navigate grief through photos and storytelling. Resources Mentioned by Francis Weller Queer Grief Club run by newsletter Grief Out Loud contact: The Dougy Center website: dougy.org This episode is the first in our 2025 three-part series highlighting the voices of communities who have historically been underrepresented in the grief world. The series is part of an ongoing collaboration between Dougy Center and We are deeply grateful for New York Life Foundation's tireless support and advocacy for children and teens who are grieving.
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The Grief We Bury: Daria Burke on Childhood Loss, Collective Grief, & Estrangement
05/02/2025
The Grief We Bury: Daria Burke on Childhood Loss, Collective Grief, & Estrangement
is an author, executive, and healer-at-heart. She's also a grandchild grieving for her grandmother and a daughter estranged from her parents. In this episode, Daria shares the profound impact of losing her maternal grandmother at age seven and how that early loss reverberated through her life. This loss and grief exist alongside the immense healing she's done around growing up in poverty, childhood trauma, and her parents' absences, addictions, and the eventual estrangement from them. With the recent release of her memoir, , Daria opens up about the moment, decades later, that reawakened the grief for her grandmother - finding a newspaper article about her fatal car accident. That discovery, and ensuing grief, started a new chapter in Daria's healing process. In our conversation, we talk about inherited trauma, the emotional weight of estrangement, the invisible grief of childhood neglect, Daria's healing practices, and how she stays connected to her grandmother through what she calls “love taps.” Key Topics: What role Daria's grandmother played in her early childhood The ongoing impacts of childhood grief and unprocessed trauma How truth-telling is part of healing The collective grief she grew up around in Detroit of the 1980's Uncovering the grief she buried after her grandmother died Grieving for family members who are still alive Grief Practices Daria Shares: Giving herself permission to cry freely Meditative practices to connect with her grandmother Volunteering on holidays and creating new rituals Finding signs from her grandmother in the world around her Daria Burke is an American writer, speaker and award-winning business leader. A marketer by trade and a seeker at heart, Daria is a storyteller and sense-maker, weaving together personal experience and the science of healing and transformation to explore new ways of understanding how we choose who we become. This passion led her to complete Dr. Tara Swart’s Neuroscience for Business course at MIT and Positive Psychology and Well-Being at Stanford, taught by Dr. Daryn Reicherter, an international expert in trauma psychiatry. Her debut memoir, OF MY OWN MAKING (April 2025) explores trauma, neuroplasticity, and Post-Traumatic Growth through the lens of her own healing journey. Kiese Laymon called it “as profound a book about the treacherous experience of befriending ourselves as I’ve read this decade.” Part memoir, part methodology, OF MY OWN MAKING blends personal narrative with scientific insight, Daria inspires readers to reimagine the narratives that define their lives. Connect with Daria: Website: Instagram: Resources & Links: Dougy Center: Email the show: Production Note: Grief Out Loud is produced by Dougy Center: The National Grief Center for Children & Families, and is supported in part by The Chester Stephan Endowment Fund.
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Going Beyond Words: Supporting Children With Autism Who Are Grieving - Jennifer Wiles, M.A., LMHC, BC-DMT, FT
04/25/2025
Going Beyond Words: Supporting Children With Autism Who Are Grieving - Jennifer Wiles, M.A., LMHC, BC-DMT, FT
In this episode, we delve into the grief experiences of children and teens with autism. Our guest, - Director of the HEARTplay Program and a dance movement therapist with decades of experience - joins us to discuss how children with autism process grief and how parents and others in their lives can support them. Drawing on her background in both nonverbal forms of expression and grief support, Jennifer shares compassionate, practical insights rooted in her work with families. This conversation is both timely and essential, especially during , as it highlights the importance of expanding how we understand and support grief beyond more traditional approaches rooted in words. We discuss: The importance of using direct, concrete language when talking about death Common misconceptions about how kids with autism express grief Why behaviors often interpreted as indifference may be expressions of deep emotion How sensory overload and disrupted routines can intensify grief reactions The powerful role of nonverbal communication—movement, gesture, rhythm, and ritual—in grief expression How social stories and structured activities can prepare kids for events like funerals Grief rituals for significant days like anniversaries and birthdays The impact of other losses, including changes in routine, missed milestones, and the death of service animals Resources mentioned: A resource for supporting children of all abilities who are grieving Books: series by Meredith Polsky & Arlen Gaines by Catherine Faherty by Brennan Wood : Free downloadable social stories and grief support Have feedback or a story to share? Email us at Visit for grief support resources, activity sheets, and past episodes.
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When Grief Comes Home - Parenting & Grief
04/17/2025
When Grief Comes Home - Parenting & Grief
Grief often arrives without warning and changes everything we thought we knew about ourselves, our families, and the world around us. In this episode, we talk with Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague about their new book, When Grief Comes Home, a resource created from years of both personal loss and professional experience supporting families who are grieving. Erin, founding Executive Director of in Central California, and Colleen, Program Director, discuss how they came to write this book that blends memoir, practical tools, and reflective questions. We discuss: Erin's personal experience with grief including the death of her husband when their children were just 3 and 5 years old, her mother from suicide, and her son Carter, who died in an accident The unique impact of sudden loss The power of rituals and expressive activities What teens really need when they are grieving Strategies for returning to school and work Activites and discussion starters parents and caregivers can use to connect with their kids Learning to trust yourself in grief Making space for the dark parts of grief while also staying open to moments of light and joy Resources & Mentions: by Erin and Colleen – [available wherever you get your books] Jessica’s House: Dougy Center: 💬 Connect with us: 🎧 If you find this episode meaningful, consider leaving us a rating or review to help more people find Grief Out Loud. Grief Out Loud is produced by Dougy Center: The National Grief Center for Children & Families.
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When You Lose Your Anchor People: Renée Watson & Making Space For Grief
04/04/2025
When You Lose Your Anchor People: Renée Watson & Making Space For Grief
What does it mean to lose your anchor people? In a short period of time, experienced the death of her mother, her mentor Nikki Giovanni, and her childhood friend, Charnetta. Renée shares how these experiences influenced her latest novel for young readers, , which follows 13-year-old Sage as she navigates grief after the death of her best friend. Renée Watson is a #1 New York Times bestselling author whose recent book All the Blues in the Sky explores grief through the eyes of a young person. Her young adult novel, , received a Coretta Scott King Award and Newbery Honor. Her children's picture books and novels for teens have received several awards and international recognition. Many of her books are inspired by her experiences growing up as a Black girl in the Pacific Northwest. We Discuss Experiencing multiple significant losses in a short period of time The impact of losing "anchor people" in one's life How Renée's mentor and friend, Nikki Giovanni, supported her as she grieved for her mother The spectrum of emotions that come with grief Why it’s important to acknowledge grief rather than avoid it What Renée learned about grief from writing her main character, Sage. The comparison of sudden loss versus anticipated loss Finding tangible reminders of love after someone dies Connect with Renée Watson Website: About Dougy Center Grief Out Loud is a production of Dougy Center, the National Grief Center for Children and Families in Portland, Oregon. For more resources, visit or email .
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Fifty-Seven Fridays: Myra Sack On Love, Loss & Grieving Her Daughter
03/28/2025
Fifty-Seven Fridays: Myra Sack On Love, Loss & Grieving Her Daughter
In this deeply moving episode we talked with about the love, loss, and legacy of her daughter, Havi. Diagnosed with Tay-Sachs disease at just 15 months old, Havi's life was brief but profoundly impactful. Myra shares how she and her family navigated the unbearable reality of their daughter's illness and death, including transforming their Shabbat ritual into "Shabbirthdays" held every Friday to celebrate Havi's life. Myra reflects on the arduous medical rollercoaster that led to Havi's Tay-Sachs diagnosis, the challenges of navigating a world that struggles to support the bereaved, and how she and her family find solace in sharing Havi's legacy with others. She also discusses her memoir, , and how she started an organization that harnesses movement, community, and ritual to support those who are grieving. We discuss: The ongoing presence of grief, particularly during milestone moments and everyday life. How Myra and her husband Matt created the Shabbirthday ritual to honor Havi each week. How Havi continues to teach others even after her death. The impact of isolation for grieving families and the struggle of navigating social norms post-diagnosis. Finding ways to stay connected to Havi through rituals, storytelling, and shared memories. Myra's journey into grief education and the founding of E-Motion, which supports people who are grieving through movement and community. The need for more grief-informed communities. Resources & Links: by Myra Sack By Bruce D. Perry & Oprah Winfrey Connect With Us: Have thoughts on this episode? We'd love to hear from you! Email us at or visit our website for more resources and past episodes.
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Living With Incurable Cancer: Caroline Catlin On Time, Grief, & Mortality
03/19/2025
Living With Incurable Cancer: Caroline Catlin On Time, Grief, & Mortality
What does it mean to live with an incurable illness while navigating grief, time, and the complexity of human connection? In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we sit down with —writer, artist, and grief care worker—to explore her experience of living with an incurable brain cancer diagnosis. Caroline shares how her relationship with cancer has evolved over the past six years, from the early days of fighting for a diagnosis to the ongoing reality of regular scans and the uncertainty of what’s next. She speaks candidly about anticipatory grief, the way mortality shapes her daily life, and how her work in end-of-life photography and peer grief support informs her perspective on loss. We also discuss: The impact of a life-altering diagnosis on friendships and relationships How people can better support those living with illness The intersection of living with illness and supporting grieving children The unique grief of knowing time is limited—and learning to live within it Caroline also shares about her grief writing workshops, her creative process, and how gardening has become a grounding practice for her. Connect with Caroline: Website: Instagram: Grief writing workshops: Sliding scale, open to all For more resources and to connect with Grief Out Loud, visit .
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What Now? Carla Fernandez & Renegade Grief
03/07/2025
What Now? Carla Fernandez & Renegade Grief
In this episode of Grief Out Loud, we welcome back , co-founder of , to talk about her new book, , in which she explores the question: "Now what? What are we supposed to do after someone dies?" Carla reflects on the death of her father, the unconventional paths she’s taken to process her grief, and how The Dinner Party came together from a desire to create non-traditional spaces for young adults navigating loss. In this conversation we delve into the dominant narratives around grief — and how the few that do exist may not fit for most of us. From potluck meals to altar building, Carla shares creative ways people can honor their grief and build community at the same time. We discuss: The inspiration behind Renegade Grief and why Carla wished this book existed when her dad died. How traditional grief support spaces often don’t work for young adults. The origin story of The Dinner Party, and how one dinner with friends who “get it” can change everything. Why food, memory, and grief are so deeply intertwined. The myth that grief gets “easier after the first year” — and why year two can be even harder. Grief rituals and care practices for both early grief and the long haul. Creating identity-based grief spaces, like LGBTQ+ and BIPOC tables, and why specificity matters in grief support. Finding joy, creativity, and unexpected connection through grief (without forced positivity). Carla Fernandez is the co-founder of The Dinner Party, a community-driven organization that brings together grieving young adults for potluck dinners and meaningful conversations about life after loss. Her new book, Renegade Grief, is a practical and heartfelt guide to building personal rituals and support networks that meet you where you are — not where society says you should be. Resources Mentioned: (out March 11, 2025) - Peer grief support for 20 to 45 year-olds by Mary-Frances O’Connor by Martín Prechtel - Documentary by Sol Guy Connect With Us: Dougy Center Website: Email the Show: Listen to All Episodes: Follow us on and
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A Tribute To My Dad - Bryan Jung & This Is Why
02/28/2025
A Tribute To My Dad - Bryan Jung & This Is Why
In this episode Bryan Jung talks about the experience of being only nine years old when his father, a prominent lawyer in the Korean community, was tragically shot by another lawyer. Fifteen months later and just nine days before Bryan’s 11th birthday, his father died. Bryan reflects on the impact of his father’s death, the strength of his family, and how he continues to honor his dad’s legacy. He shares how his grief evolved over time, the role of community support, and the lessons he’s carried into his own life. Bryan also discusses founding , an online platform that provides space for individuals who lost a parent as a child or teen to share their stories and find connection. We Discuss: Bryan’s memories of his father and the impact of his death on their family Navigating life after his father’s shooting and the challenges of childhood grief The role of community support and the strength of his mother in keeping the family together How volunteering at Camp Erin deepened his understanding of grief and inspired him to create This Is Why The power of storytelling in grief and his commitment to continuing his father’s legacy Forgiveness and personal growth in the aftermath of tragedy How grief anniversaries and milestones continue to shape his journey Resources & Links: Learn more about This Is Why: Connect with on social media Information on Camp Erin: Dougy Center: Join the Conversation: We’d love to hear from you! If you have thoughts on this episode or want to share your own grief journey, email us at .
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How Many Siblings Do You Have? Navigating Sibling Loss with Judy Lipson
02/15/2025
How Many Siblings Do You Have? Navigating Sibling Loss with Judy Lipson
In this episode, we talk with Judy Lipson, author of A Celebration of Sisters. Judy shares her journey of sibling loss, reflecting on the deaths of her sisters—Margie, who died of anorexia, and Jane, who died in a car crash—and how their absence shaped her identity. She opens up about the complexities of sibling grief, the impact of Margie's long battle with an eating disorder, and the moment when the grief she had pushed aside for so long finally caught up with her. Through writing, ice skating, and organizing a fundraiser in their honor, Judy found ways to reconnect with her sisters and keep their memory alive. She also discusses the evolving landscape of sibling grief support and how sharing her story has helped others navigate their own losses. We Discuss: Growing up as the middle of three sisters The shock of losing Jane when Judy was 25, and then Margie nine years later The challenges of grieving while balancing responsibilities How ice skating and philanthropy became outlets for her grief The changing landscape of sibling grief support What she’s most proud of in her grief process Resources & Links: Judy Lipson’s Website: Subscribe to Judy’s Substack: Book: A Celebration of Sisters – Available on Amazon and local bookstores Dougy Center Resources:
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