403 Organisational Design and the Future of Work with Susannah Robinson

We explore the vital intersection of organisational design, leadership culture, and power dynamics with special guest Susannah Robinson, author of Beyond the Boxes and Lines.

Zoë kicks off the episode with exciting updates on the Power Games Kickstarter campaign and a groundbreaking Planet Human segment on brain-computer interfaces that enable near real-time speech interpretation for paralysed individuals.

Then we dive into the conversation with Susannah, who brings over 30 years of HR and organisational design experience. She shares practical frameworks for rethinking job roles, enhancing collaboration, and resolving structural friction in organisations.

Together, we unpack what causes cultural breakdowns, the consequences of poorly implemented matrix structures, and why flatter hierarchies may not be the magic bullet many leaders believe they are.

SHOWNOTES are here:
https://www.zoerouth.com/podcast/organisational-design

Planet Human:
Brain implant enables a paralysed woman’s thoughts to be streamed into speech
https://singularityhub.com/2025/03/31/brain-implant-streams-a-paralyzed-womans-thoughts-as-if-shes-speaking-in-near-real-time

Kickstarter Campaign:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zoerouth/power-games-stop-toxic-power-in-the-workplace

Key Quotes

"When the person leaves the role, we finally take the lid off the pot and discover everything they were actually doing." – Susannah Robinson

"Leadership today isn’t just about giving direction, it's about managing your impact." – Susannah Robinson

"Collaboration needs good structure. Culture is the bridge." – Zoë Routh

Questions Asked

1. What triggers the need for a redesign of organisational structures?

2. How can job design improve retention and employee engagement?

3. What are the common friction points in team handoffs and collaboration?

4. How do flatter hierarchies shift leadership expectations?

5. What structural patterns lead to power struggles and office politics?

6. How should leaders handle stonewalling behaviour in the workplace?
   
   

Take Action

• Audit your structure. When someone leaves, resist the urge to simply refill the role. Ask: could we do this differently?

• Map job design. Identify overlaps, friction points, and gaps in role clarity especially where handoffs occur.

• Assess your collaboration culture. Are your incentive systems and tools aligned with teamwork, or unintentionally rewarding lone wolves?

• Educate your teams. Use visual tools (like “five guys, one piano” teamwork analogy or org charts) to demystify structure and process.

• Normalise discomfort. Have the hard conversations about misalignment, underperformance, or mismatched roles with compassion and clarity.

Tip of the Week

Before you flatten your hierarchy or shift to team-based models, first ensure your systems (incentives, tools, contracts) are designed to support that culture. Otherwise, you’re simply rearranging the dysfunction.

Key Moments

00:00 Introduction and Weekly Question

00:16 Exciting Advances in Brain-Computer Interfaces

01:41 Introducing 'Power Games' Book Launch

04:11 Strategies for High-Performing Teams

06:21 Interview with Susanna Robinson on Organisational Design

19:42 Exploring Organisational Structures

20:16 The Concept of Hollow Organisations

21:27 Visualizing Organisational Models

23:00 Flattening Hierarchies: Pros and Cons

25:32 Encouraging Team-Based Environments

28:06 Barriers to Collaboration

29:44 Office Politics and Power Games

31:52 Quickfire Leadership Insights

33:15 Handling Employee Stonewalling

35:35 Conclusion and Resources