EP43 - Trust, Tariffs, and Transformation with Steven Allmen

How are successful Canadian brands adapting to today's rapidly changing market? In this episode of CMA Connect, CMA CEO Alison Simpson sits down with Steven Allmen, Executive Vice President of Strategy and Partnerships at CAA National. They explore strategies for staying relevant and growing in Canada, from successful pivots to cautionary tales like Hudson's Bay. Discover the evolving role of trust in brand loyalty, what it truly means to be a Canadian brand today, and how companies respond to shifting consumer behaviours in the face of economic pressures.

00:00:01:18 - 00:00:21:19
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host, CMA CEO, Alison Simpson.

00:00:21:21 - 00:00:44:22
Alison
In today's episode, we are exploring how one of Canada's oldest brands has evolved to stay relevant and grow for over 100 years. Clearly, that's not an easy feat, especially when you think about how much the world and Canadians have changed over that period. I am absolutely delighted to welcome Steve Allmen, the Executive Vice-President of strategy and partnerships with Canadian Automobile Association, who is joining me today.

00:00:45:00 - 00:01:15:02
Alison
Before joining the CAA National, Steve held senior leadership roles in loyalty, retail, telecom and financial services, working for great businesses like Amia, Aeroplan and HBC, to name a few. With expertise in strategic alliances, program design and business development, Steve focuses on driving value through partnerships, data driven insights and loyalty marketing. His diverse background really reflects a passion for delivering growth and transformative results, and this work in the CAA is the latest example.

00:01:15:06 - 00:01:36:01
Alison
Today, Steve and I are going to dig into what it takes to stay relevant and grow as a business and brand in Canada. Whether your brand has been around for decades or is in more nascent stages, there is absolutely lots of valuable learning that you can benefit from in our conversation. We'll also cover when you should pivot and futureproof your business by changing what's working well for your company in the past, and that's never an easy decision.

00:01:36:03 - 00:01:52:05
Alison
We'll talk about the crucial role trust plays and what it means to be a Canadian brand, amidst the current political and economic upheaval. The CAA also has a unique lens into how Canadians are changing their behaviours across the country, which is valuable for all the marketers who have tuned in today. Welcome, Steve.

00:01:52:07 - 00:01:54:03
Steve
Thanks, Alison. Great to be here.

00:01:54:05 - 00:02:10:04
Alison
So, Steve, let's start with what's going on today and the recent resurgence of Canadian patriotism. I'd love you to share how CAA has seen Canadians adopting their behaviours in the face of tariffs and the increased loyalty to our country. And also, are you seeing any regional differences?

00:02:10:06 - 00:02:30:05
Steve
Yeah. Thanks, Alison. It's a, it's a great topic. It's sort of an unfortunate topic that we have to cover today. But the reality is we're all living it. So one of the things that we've seen at CAA, I think as much as anybody else is we're very happy that we've got Canadian in our name, because it makes it very easy for people to understand who we are.

00:02:30:07 - 00:02:57:23
Steve
We're we're a diverse group of clubs across Canada. We represent about 7.4 million Canadian members. We call them members, not as much consumers, but members of our program. We're very proud of the fact that we are coast to coast with offices from BC to Atlantic Canada. What we're seeing as much as anything else, is a lot of clarity around travel, a lot of clarity around, you know, the importance of being Canadian and a lot of pride.

00:02:58:01 - 00:03:26:12
Steve
I can't quote all the numbers for you right now because we're still learning them as we go along. We are certainly seeing a dip in U.S. travel. We're certainly seeing an uptick in European, Caribbean, Mexico travel. So CAA is not just a roadside business. We're also a travel business. And so we have a pretty good sense as to what's going on from what our members are researching, what our travel agents are hearing from their consumers, and how we're promoting the business.

00:03:26:14 - 00:03:51:15
Steve
It doesn't mean we're not promoting U.S. partners, but we're very aware of the fact that Canadians have changed their travel behaviour. One of the things I'm going to be most interested to see is because CAA is part of a North America wide alliance with Triple-A, which is very much the same business as CAA, we get a lot of trans-border traffic, so we get Americans coming up to Canada, we get Canadians going down to the United States.

00:03:51:17 - 00:04:12:19
Steve
And in essence, if you break down as a CAA member in the middle of Tennessee and you phone CAA, a nice Triple A truck will show up. If you break down in the middle of Ontario and you're a Triple-A member, the same happens. So with summer travel coming up, it's going to be really interesting to see what impact that has on our business.

00:04:13:02 - 00:04:42:01
Steve
Wha,t what impact that has on our call rates and what impact that has just on our forecasting for the future. We don't know yet. We're still learning. The only other thing I'd say is we've got some great partners, many of whom are Canadian businesses. And so we're very much promoting them. Again, we're not doing anything to stop people from coming to our partners, but we're very proud of some of our Canadian partners and promoting them as we go through the motions of whatever is next going to come out of the United States and the government.

00:04:42:03 - 00:04:52:16
Alison
Now you highlighted some of the non-U.S. destinations that Canadians are now choosing Caribbean and others. Are we seeing them also booking more vacations in Canada?

00:04:52:18 - 00:05:16:14
Steve
Yeah, it's a great it's a great question. I think we're going to start to see a lot more road tripping, where we're hearing a lot more about it. We still do a lot of regional partners, very much regional partners that have the flavour of B.C. or the flavour of Atlantic Canada. Again, I don't have final numbers yet. It might be an interesting thing to revisit it in a year, and then we can measure against it.

00:05:16:15 - 00:05:38:10
Steve
But we certainly are having members asking about, what can I do in Niagara Falls? What can I do in beautiful Victoria? Where can I go in P.E.I.? And again, some of those are self-serving events versus using a travel agent. But I think we're going to see a real uptick in consumers either renting a car, we've got RV partners,

00:05:38:10 - 00:05:56:16
Steve
We've got hotel partners, we've got dining partners. Regional events, regional fairs and all those other things that are really built for our members. So I'm very confident we're going to see an uptick in those. Just everything you're reading in the press, it makes sense. And our consumers are very representative of the Canadian population.

00:05:56:18 - 00:06:12:16
Alison
Now, we're obviously seeing a huge Buy Canadian movement from your perspective with living, working with a brand that's been a part of Canada for 112 years. What does it mean to be a Canadian brand and how has that evolved during the current political and economic upheaval?

00:06:12:18 - 00:06:35:00
Steve
Yeah, it's it's a really interesting time for us. You know, CAA is built on a couple of things. We're built on our very traditional roadside business. We're also very much built on advocacy and safety and trust. And I'll give you a couple of examples. You know, we recently did, for example, for those of you who are EV drivers, I'm not,

00:06:35:00 - 00:06:59:18
Steve
But for those of you who are EV drivers, your biggest thing that you're worried about is range. So we did a very Canadian thing. We tested cars in the winter. That might seem unusual, but a lot of the EV cars that are out there have their ranges calculated based on California. We're not California. So in February, we actually did a test drive with using 14 EVs from beautiful Ottawa to even more beautiful Mont Tremblant.

00:06:59:20 - 00:07:22:03
Steve
We actually drove the cars until they were empty of electrical charge and fuel and wanted to see how long would they take? What was the charging time to reboot them? How did we need to kind of get all those little nuances working so that people are comfortable? And we did it with a lot of Canadian pride. We had people from all over Canada driving these vehicles up into Mont Tremblant.

00:07:22:04 - 00:07:40:01
Steve
It was fantastic. So the press that comes out of it is very much about CAA is trustworthy. And here's a Canadian view of EVs. So Canadian pride comes up. And again we are the Canadian Automobile Association, so we're reminded of it every day.

00:07:40:03 - 00:08:01:00
Alison
So now let's take a step back. Thriving is a business. For 112 years it was to state the obvious very, very rare. And it absolutely has to provide valuable learning for marketers, and the company at any stage. So can you share how the CAA has evolved? And we'll narrow the timeframe down to the last decade, relevance and driving growth.

00:08:01:02 - 00:08:40:06
Steve
Yeah. It's you know, we are 100 and I think we're 110 plus years old. And we started in a time of horse and carriage and bicycles and cars that were a little bit rickety. So we have evolved. I think the biggest thing that we've looked at is really the importance of trust around the data that we gather on our members and how we communicate with our members as we've migrated from very much a direct mail house - all of our clubs were very big on direct mail, either for acquisition or renewal or marketing around the partnerships, far more now to a digital journey.

00:08:40:06 - 00:08:56:10
Steve
And that digital journey has its pros and cons behind it. If you think about the journey of somebody who's broken down on the side of the road, and I'll just use a very real example. You're driving down in Toronto, you break down on the 401, you don't want to be there. So what do you do? You call CAA.

00:08:56:12 - 00:09:12:09
Steve
The old days, you would call CAA and they'd say, yep, we're going to send a tow truck and they'll be there in 40 minutes. Now with our apps, you can actually, in very much an Uber or Lyft like experience, go on to the app, track where the driver is, understand where their journey is, they'll communicate with you, you know who's showing up.

00:09:12:14 - 00:09:38:13
Steve
And so you've got not just that trust that somebody is coming, but you actually can see them coming. And trust me, that works really, really well when it comes to how our members are surviving. Also done things like, you know, the relevance of the importance of the safety of that event. So if your car is, the battery's dead on your driveway, that's a very different experience than your battery's dead or your car's broken down in the middle of the highway.

00:09:38:13 - 00:10:03:11
Steve
So we'll kind of gauge our our response times to it. From a marketing standpoint, very much again, respectful of privacy rules and regulations. You know, the journey flow, the buy flow from somebody who's, signing up for a membership or renewing their membership. How are they paying for it? So all the communication pieces have to address both the regional flare.

00:10:03:13 - 00:10:27:02
Steve
Remember we're CAA, but we're BCA in BC, we're the Alberta Motor Association in Alberta, we're CA Quebec, CA  Saskatchewan. So each of the clubs has a little bit of a nuance to how they market that message. And then how do we promote our partners? How do we promote our partners like Recipe, Harvey's, Swiss Chalet, Shell, Enterprise Rent-A-Car, Choice Hotels.

00:10:27:07 - 00:10:48:12
Steve
We again have to be very clear on the data. So if you're a regular Shell user, please don't send me an acquisition offer to go to Shell. If you're an infrequent user, maybe it's a re-engagement. So we're able to use, like any good marketers, the data to market better, promote better. Those are things that they didn't have ten years ago, 15 years ago.

00:10:48:14 - 00:11:10:03
Steve
With the birth of the AI, it's going to be even more interesting to see how we start to use AI to both predict behaviour, but also to market more effectively for our members. So I think we're very reflective of some of the other great members of the Canadian Marketing Association who are using great tools and methodologies, and data.

00:11:10:03 - 00:11:18:01
Steve
And we have some great data partners like Environics Analytics and some other great technology partners to really make sure that we're doing the right marketing message.

00:11:18:03 - 00:11:37:04
Alison
Now, the regional and national piece is relevant to a lot of our members and listeners as well. So how do you balance the desire to personalize messaging, reach and marketing regionally, and also have it have a CAA branded presence?

00:11:37:06 - 00:12:01:17
Steve
Yeah, it's it's a funny question because if I'm a BCA member, I really don't know what's going on in Atlantic Canada. I may not necessarily be too worried about it unless I'm driving there and I break down, and then it's really important. So, so we have to balance out both the, purpose of CAA from the standpoint of travel, roadside insurance, etc., from a national perspective.

00:12:01:22 - 00:12:27:03
Steve
But we also have to understand that there's a very different demographic between somebody who lives in downtown Vancouver versus somebody who lives in Moncton, or somebody who lives in northern Ontario. So our clubs are really, really focused on making sure that there's a nice mix of, you know, the local inn or the local hotel or the local restaurant that can support that club

00:12:27:05 - 00:12:51:22
Steve
that may not be relevant to everybody across the country. While at the same time, CAA goes and pursues very large national partners to provide that national fit for both our clubs and for the partners. So it's a bit of a balancing act. Shell is a primary example. We used to have five regional fuel partners. Great for the regions, really complicated for us as a business.

00:12:52:06 - 00:13:17:12
Steve
In 2021 we launched Shell in Alberta. We rolled them out nationally in 2022. So now we've got this national footprint with a national reach, which means a member from Quebec can go and fill up in BC and get the same value as they would as if they're filling up at home. So it's a bit of a mix between how we support both the partners, but also how we support the growth of our brand.

00:13:17:12 - 00:13:32:02
Steve
And again, that's new learning for us as we think about, you know, the reach in a very crowded marketplace of incentives and loyalty and discounts and benefits. So we kind of always have to be ahead of the game to make sure that we're achieving that goal.

00:13:32:04 - 00:13:50:19
Alison
Now, no matter how much you want to change, change is hard, and timing certainly plays a key role too, especially when you are driving change while business results are good. So how does the CAA team determine when you should pivot and future-proof your business by changing what's working well for your company?

00:13:50:21 - 00:14:13:08
Steve
Yeah, so I think the easiest way to explain it is that we have both strategic thinking and we have operational execution. And let me explain that a little bit. So we have a great collaboration between the clubs nationally. We have great collaboration between CAA and Triple-A, but we also have great collaboration between CAA and clubs around the world.

00:14:13:08 - 00:14:36:07
Steve
There's almost 200 countries that have mobility clubs we all share, so we might actually get an idea from a club in the Netherlands or in Australia and be able to bring it in. I'm really proud of the fact that CAA has actually been a leader in this, so let me unpack that a little bit. We're eight clubs in Canada, and so a club in Canada might try something new.

00:14:36:13 - 00:14:57:13
Steve
And I'll give you an example. One of our clubs a couple of years ago thought, you know, I'm really concerned about making sure that we're targeting a younger demographic. How are we going to do that? How can we get away from just, you know, traditional CAA to new CAA? So they actually launched the products in their club, it was Northeast Ontario.

00:14:57:15 - 00:15:21:07
Steve
So they actually launched the product that was CAA without roadside. So you might sit there and say, how is that going to work? But a CAA member can join every day and get all the benefits of CAA - discount on dining, discounts at fuel, great rates on insurance, great rates on travel, the only thing they can't do is call roadside.

00:15:21:07 - 00:15:43:12
Steve
Now, theoretically, if they called and they needed to get roadside, we would enrol them in the program. But it's not targeted at that group. So that started in one club and it rolled right across the country. It is now in every club in Canada. It's called different things in the clubs. It's Every Day in most of the clubs, Alberta calls it Community and BCA and Quebec call it Go.

00:15:43:12 - 00:16:08:14
Steve
So BCA Go and CAQuebec Go. So that innovation actually started in a club and they piloted it, and they tested it and they stress-tested it, and did all the other things and it rolled across the country. Why is it really exciting? Because it's now being tested in six of the Triple-A clubs as a non- roadside product. So a little bit of Canadian pride as we roll our product down into the United States.

00:16:08:16 - 00:16:29:18
Steve
And that pivot really came out of a need and an understanding. We needed to evolve. We needed to evolve our business. We needed to evolve beyond roadside as people are car-sharing more, as people are, you know, buying new cars, leasing vehicles, how can we kind of create an avenue for them to come in and work more closely with us?

00:16:29:18 - 00:16:52:13
Steve
And it's been very successful. You know the numbers, we're now nationally. The other thing we did with that business? Subscription model. Why subscription model? We know it works with the younger demographic. So instead of an upfront fee, it's a monthly fee. So that's kind of one example of a pivot. The next pivots I think are going to be around the connected car. As we think about our cars,

00:16:52:15 - 00:17:09:14
Steve
I still remember the days, I don't know about you, Alison, where you were pushing buttons to change stations and I got  am and nothing but. I am showing my age a little bit. But the connected car, the car knows it's time to change your oil. It's time to get gas. Here's the closest station. Do you want me to guide you there?

00:17:09:14 - 00:17:34:03
Steve
All those things that are there. So we're very excited about where the connected car is going to go. And how the car connects to the home and how the home connects to behaviour. And are there things that we could actually do to change our members behaviour safely while they're driving? I have to get that in for our road site team, but safely while they're driving, to allow the vehicle to help them do things.

00:17:34:05 - 00:17:51:23
Steve
Time to order an oil change. We have services now that will change your tires right on your driveway. So instead of booking a time where you have to go somewhere, they actually come to you. You're having a cup of coffee and they'll even detail your car. One of our guys in Atlantic Canada showed me pictures of his car being detailed.

00:17:52:01 - 00:18:10:16
Steve
He's got three kids. He doesn't have time to go and get the car cleaned. So those kinds of pivots change over time. Not all of them work. Like any good business, trial and error, but we're very proud of some of the things that we've done. And we're actually leaders within the global federation from an innovation standpoint.

00:18:10:18 - 00:18:13:03
Alison
You should have a lot of Canadian pride around that.

00:18:13:05 - 00:18:36:12
Steve
Yeah, I think so. I think so. Well, actually, if I can add one more thing, our rewards program is a platform that was built in Canada. That platform is now the platform of Triple A. It is now the platform of another program called One Road, which is our federation or international federation. So it's in Canada, the U.S., it's in Europe, and it's about to go into Asia.

00:18:36:12 - 00:18:46:04
Steve
That's a CAA-built platform that we use as the engine behind our our rewards program. So that's even more Canadian pride.

00:18:46:06 - 00:18:47:20
Alison
Absolutely. Well done.

00:18:47:22 - 00:18:48:17
Steve
Thank you.

00:18:48:18 - 00:19:01:16
Alison
Now you mentioned that not everything works. And certainly in my experience, some of my most powerful learning has come from when things didn't work. So are there any lessons learned the hard way that are worth sharing with our marketing audience?

00:19:01:18 - 00:19:24:09
Steve
Yeah. You know, I think I think the hard part behind it is that, you know, marketers, and I'm not a marketer per se. I'm a strategic alliance guy. But we all have egos and we don't like our egos bruised. There are probably examples of a direct mail campaign that didn't work. We've tried some acquisition campaigns that didn't work.

00:19:24:10 - 00:19:49:13
Steve
The biggest lesson is, don't be afraid to try it, but also be really clear on understanding what the data tells you. Understanding what worked. It could have been weather, it could have been geopolitical. It could have been weather impacted by geopolitical with competitive. There's always a reason behind it. But don't be afraid to go back and try something again with a minor tweak.

00:19:49:15 - 00:20:22:03
Steve
The other thing that is really core is document it, so that ten years from now, somebody doesn't pull something out and say, why don't we try this? We need to make sure that we've got a good tracking of what we tried, why it worked, why it didn't work, and all the lessons that go along with it. And I think the last thing is communicate it. Really, really talk to all of the things that happened and we've got a great open, collaborative group of clubs, senior leaders, CEOs, board members who very much want to share and learn and grow together.

00:20:22:04 - 00:20:32:14
Steve
And so, whether you're a small company or a multinational, it's always about just making sure that you, you learn from the past, but you plan for the future.

00:20:32:16 - 00:20:45:02
Alison
Now, Steve, the sad downfall of HBC is an example of our most storied brand in many ways not adopting. Now, since you worked there early in your career, I'm keen to hear your perspective on what they should have done differently.

00:20:45:03 - 00:21:04:12
Steve
Yeah, it's it's very sad. And for those who remember, I'm actually, I actually was an Eaton's guy, a Simpsons guy and then a HBC guy. So I've kind of seen department stores all the way along. It's very sad, and it's very sad because I think they lost their way. And the way that I think about it is in three buckets.

00:21:04:12 - 00:21:29:04
Steve
Number one was, they had an incredible set of brands. It wasn't just one brand. They had an incredible set of brands. For those of us who ever shopped at the Bay or HBC, you know, I think about places like The Room, I think about places like the West End Shop. These brands that were anchors within the anchor of the Hudson's Bay that dragged you in there and you were loyal to that brand.

00:21:29:06 - 00:21:58:15
Steve
There are people in my family, including myself, I was very loyal to the West End Shop. I was never going to some of the other retailers, I was always very loyal to it. And those brands disappeared. So you had these large anchor stores that lost their joie de vive, if you like. They lost their reason for you going there. If you think about something like the Arcadian Court or the Carlu at Eaton's, if you've never been there, but these were destinations for people to go to.

00:21:58:19 - 00:22:25:06
Steve
The Simpsons Christmas windows, then became the Hudson's Bay windows. Again, destinations to get people down there. But that worked for a certain generation, that didn't work for every generation, and I think they kind of lost just the way to grab attention. Bonnie Brooks did a phenomenal job. They did Bay Days, they did scratch and save, so they lost what it meant to be a good retailer, like a really, really good retailer.

00:22:25:08 - 00:22:45:12
Steve
I blame that on the people that were real estate people buying the Bay, not retailers buying the Bay. I think the other thing is, you know, the demise of Zellers. Not everybody like Zellers, but boy, oh boy, you could get everything you wanted in Zellers. And they kind of let it die. I know they brought it back, but it was a bad execution.

00:22:45:16 - 00:23:12:10
Steve
You walk into the Queen Street Bay store and there's a couple table tops of Zellers stuff thrown in the corner. Horrible, horrible, horrible. I think the third thing for me is the data. I think when they closed, when they sold their portfolio, I know the guys at Neo did a great job with the credit card, but I think they kind of lost that hook on the, on the points program, the loyalty program and everything else that went along with that.

00:23:12:11 - 00:23:37:07
Steve
And the biggest area for me is the HBC signature, the heritage of The Bay. We live in, you know, north of Toronto, and we have Bay throws and Bay blankets in most of the rooms. That's an incredible opportunity that I think they lost by not having a real signature shop. So to me, it's that whole destination piece of creating why people go to a retail store.

00:23:37:09 - 00:23:50:01
Steve
Simons does a great job. The department store is not dead. Simons does a great job, and the Bay could have learned from what Simons has done if they really wanted to understand, but I think they got rid of the retailers, and that's unfortunate.

00:23:50:03 - 00:24:04:20
Alison
Now, I'm still holding out a little bit of hope that someone's going to step in and buy the HBC brand and the famous stripes. So if that comes to be, what advice would you offer to new owners to relaunch and rejuvenate this HBC signature line?

00:24:04:21 - 00:24:24:08
Steve
Yeah, I think, I think it is the legacy, and it's a great time to do it, right? With the rebirth of national pride and unification. And if you think about what HBC did, they didn't just create a retail store, they actually built Canada. Look at the history of them. There's a great book that was done on the history of the blankets.

00:24:24:08 - 00:24:43:00
Steve
So right now would be an incredible time to go out and do the signature. So if you think about the clothing from the Olympics, if you think about the signature brand, the blankets, I always wanted one of those canoes. I never got one of those canoes. I would love to have one. So if somebody could do it, they could do a store within a store.

00:24:43:00 - 00:25:09:02
Steve
So Simons would be a great example. Roots. Even Harry Rosen or somebody like that could be a great example of creating a store within a store of the signature shot. I think also maybe rebirthing some of the brands. West End, The Room. Going back to the legacy of HBC, you could really tug at the heartstrings of Canadians who were trying to figure out what makes us Canada, and that would be a great example.

00:25:09:04 - 00:25:37:16
Steve
I was very sad when they said that the last six stores are going away now, so I'm not hopeful, but I am hopeful. I still have a very deep sense of love and trust for The Bay, and I really feel for the 9000 employees who were there and the legacy. And I think the Canadian government should step in and grab some of the heritage stuff, but I think it's really a matter of focusing in on the right brand, right time.

00:25:37:18 - 00:25:40:17
Steve
Play the Canadian card and re-own it.

00:25:40:18 - 00:25:46:12
Alison
And you're right there, such a pivotal time right now. And they're so embedded in the history of Canada.

00:25:46:14 - 00:26:04:16
Steve
Yeah I agree I've been going, look at in Manitoba, they have the museum and go and look, you know, when you have the charter that's for sale, unfortunately, which sits at the Queen Street store, that's an incredible document to go and look at it, but read the history of HBC. It's an incredible story.

00:26:04:18 - 00:26:19:13
Alison
Now, Steve, switching gears, you have an incredible breadth of loyalty marketing expertise across quite diverse industries, and that gives you a really unique lens. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on how loyalty marketing will change in the coming 2 to 5 years.

00:26:19:15 - 00:26:51:03
Steve
It's a hard one. Because traditional loyalty is not dead, but traditional loyalty is shifting really rapidly. I've had the pleasure of working for some great organizations, including Air Miles, Hudson's Bay, Aeroplan, which became Amia, running my own consulting business and now working for a company that has loyalty built on trust, not built on currency. So I think what we're starting to hear a lot more of is things like experiential loyalty, the very personalized approach to loyalty.

00:26:51:05 - 00:27:13:00
Steve
One size does not fit all anymore. Those days are done. If you think that all you can do is put a bunch of points out and everybody is going to go, hey, that's really cool, I'm going to join your program, it doesn't work that way anymore. So we have to create these environments in loyalty that feed the, the sort of basis of what do you expect from the loyalty program?

00:27:13:09 - 00:27:37:15
Steve
What do you expect the loyalty program to deliver to you? And how do you expect that experience? Is it a digital-only experience? So I'll give you an example. I'm an Air Canada Aeroplan super Elite member, which means I fly a lot. So there's very strong expectations that we have, as Aeroplan members, but as super elite members, even more, or 75K or 50K or whatever else.

00:27:37:17 - 00:28:01:05
Steve
So how do you execute, and Air Canada has done a really good job on changing the way that that execution happens, from little things like a concierge who meets you, or you get an email, or you get the thank you card. I'm a Bonvoy guy. Yes. I stay in a lot of hotels, so when they give me an upgrade, that feels good, but I want to make sure water is in my room because that's really important.

00:28:01:05 - 00:28:28:01
Steve
I don't want to be in the last end of the hallway. So that personalization, the leveraging of data is really, really, really core still to what we do as loyalty marketers. I think the other part, Alison, is the redemption piece. So you fly a lot. I'm sure you're, you belong to frequent flier programs. You want to make sure that when you're doing the redemption, it's a seamless experience.

00:28:28:01 - 00:28:44:21
Steve
You don't want a whole bunch of hoops and bounds to do it. So they've got to make sure that they've got that right messaging. And by the way, if I've just done a redemption and I used up all my points, please don't send me a note to say now's the time to do your redemption. You know I just did something.

00:28:44:21 - 00:29:08:04
Steve
So again, it's the leveraging of data. And listen, the programs do a great job. I'm really impressed by the the sort of smaller programs, but also the way that the big programs are adapting. Air Miles is adapting, Scene Plus is adapting. Aeroplan is adapting. Westjet's just relaunched their program away from dollars to points, so loyalty is not dead in Canada.

00:29:08:04 - 00:29:25:13
Steve
Loyalty has got an incredible future. But I think what you're going to start to find is experiential trust. Non-traditional is going to really be the future. And that only works if you got good use of data, good use of trust and good use of, you know, the right partner mix and the right blend of redemptions and accumulation.

00:29:25:13 - 00:29:28:17
Steve
So I'm very excited for the future of loyalty in Canada.

00:29:28:19 - 00:29:51:02
Alison
That's a great perspective. And building on what you shared about relevance and timing, we did some new CMA research, but one of the things we found from Canadians is when they get irrelevant ads or an ad after they've already bought something, it really damages the trust they have for the brand, to the point that 77% of them think less of the brand and will consider switching.

00:29:51:04 - 00:30:11:17
Steve
Yeah. It's fascinating. Get on a plane one day and look at the tags on somebody's bag. There are some Aeroplan Super Elite tags that are ten years old. People still have a great amount of pride, so when I get my bag tags, they go right on my right on my briefcase and it's it's for nothing else. It doesn't do anything other than it just,

00:30:11:19 - 00:30:34:00
Steve
I know. All those things are so much why people do enjoy loyalty programs. I'm sure you belong to multiples. You may be more loyal to one than the other. I won't ask which one is which, but we join them for a very specific reason and we want to get something out of that. They're free. We're not a free program, but again, we're not a loyalty program.

00:30:34:00 - 00:30:40:07
Steve
We're a membership program that's got loyalty at its core. And trust at its core. And that's really important.

00:30:40:09 - 00:31:00:00
Alison
Now, Steve, I'd love to end by having you share your career advice for our audience. You've got such an outstanding and long-standing career, and I absolutely know that our members would benefit from learning from your journey. So what's one piece of advice that you would share with aspiring marketers who would love to follow in your footsteps?

00:31:00:02 - 00:31:20:20
Steve
I think, and listen, I have a son who works in the loyalty industry. I've talked to a bunch of young folks that are in university and college. I tell them all the same thing, and I think it's really important. Number one is, you don't really know where your past going to take you. You really don't. What's important is you build relationships.

00:31:20:22 - 00:31:43:13
Steve
You build an incredible network. It's a lot of work to do. But most of my journey has been built based on people that I've met along the way. Whether that was how I got into Air Miles or how I got into Hudson's Bay or whatever. It could be. My loyalty business with Joanna Walker, Loyalty and Co., was built on the back of referral, so leverage networks.

00:31:43:13 - 00:32:02:18
Steve
Don't be afraid to ask your parents for advice. They know more than you think they do. I think the other part is that the industry changes so quickly. So stay on top of it. Stay relevant. Stay, you know, research like crazy, understand what's going on, try to stay ahead of the game. It's a bit of a chess game, life.

00:32:02:20 - 00:32:24:00
Steve
So you just don't know who's going to make the next move and be really prepared sometimes just to take a chance. I've taken chances in my career. They didn't all work, but I don't regret anything in my career. Really, I tell everybody, make sure that you've got this piece. And the last piece of advice to give them? You're a 22-year old, you just graduated university.

00:32:24:00 - 00:32:44:08
Steve
Nobody cares that you cut grass for ten years. Figure out what differentiates you. Tell your story. Tell the story that makes you different from somebody else, because you've got a lot of competition, a lot of competition in LinkedIn and Indeed and everything else that's out there. So really learn your elevator pitch on why should I hire Alison Simpson?

00:32:44:08 - 00:32:54:08
Steve
Who are you? And don't be afraid, as I did, to step out into a hallway and say, hi, I'm Steve, you must be Alison. I've heard lots about you, because that's how we met.

00:32:54:10 - 00:33:15:01
Alison
That is such outstanding advice, Steve. Thank you so much. I also want to thank you. Great conversation. Absolutely love the CAA story and how you you continue to evolve the business and all of the very relevant insights and learning that you've share that will benefit marketers, whether they're with longstanding Canadian, U.S. or international brands or more nascent brands. So a huge thank you.

00:33:15:04 - 00:33:24:08
Steve
Well, we're very happy to do it. We're very proud to be CMA members, and we love the work that you're doing and will continue to be supportive. So anything we can do to help, we're happy to.

00:33:24:08 - 00:33:26:02
Alison
Many thanks.

00:33:26:03 - 00:33:28:18
Steve
You're very welcome.

00:33:28:19 - 00:33:41:10
Presenter
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