EP48 - Canada's First Young Lions Design Gold with Zoë Boudreau and Jesse Shaw

On this episode of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson, CEO of the CMA, speaks with Canadians Zoë Boudreau, Associate Creative Director of Design, and Jesse Shaw, Senior Motion Designer, both from Rethink, about winning Canada's first Young Lions Design Competition gold at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. They reveal how a challenging 24-hour brief on Indian comic book history—completely outside their expertise—pushed them to implement integrated speech bubbles and motion systems that no other team explored. Hear how their complementary skills, iterative approach, and ability to maintain humour under extreme pressure turned unfamiliar constraints into gold-winning creativity. See their Young Lion gold-winning work here.

00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:01
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson.

00:00:22:03 - 00:00:48:05
Alison
Welcome back to CMA Connect. Today we're bringing you a truly special conversation straight from the heart of the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity. Every year, the Young Lions competition challenges the brightest emerging talent from around the world, really pushing them to innovate under incredible pressure. This year, on the last day of what was already a very inspiring week, Canada truly shone on that global stage.

00:00:48:07 - 00:01:09:03
Alison
So I am thrilled to be joined today by the talented young Canadian creative team, Zoe Boudreau, an associate Creative Director of Design, and Jesse Shaw, a senior motion designer who not only competed but brought home the coveted Gold Lion for design. So I don't normally do a standing ovation in the beginning of a podcast, but guys, you totally deserve a standing ovation.

00:01:09:03 - 00:01:12:07
Alison
So super well done.

00:01:12:09 - 00:01:13:11
Jesse
Thank you so much.

00:01:13:13 - 00:01:14:07
Zoe
Thank you.

00:01:14:12 - 00:01:35:11
Alison
Now this incredible achievement really is a testament to your vision, certainly a testament to your hard work. It also highlights the important role of The Globe and Mail, a Canadian Marketing Association member, who champion and lead the Canadian Young Lions competition here in Canada and are really playing an important role for helping foster the next generation of creative leaders right here at home.

00:01:35:17 - 00:01:46:08
Alison
So to all our listeners, get ready to be inspired as we hear directly from Canada's winning team about their journey to gold. Zoe and Jesse. Huge welcome to the CMA Connect podcast. 

Zoe
Thank you.

00:01:46:12 - 00:01:47:17
Jesse
Thank you so much.

00:01:47:19 - 00:01:56:15
Alison
The first question I'm going to ask is, who was the first person you reached out to back home once you found out you'd want? Zoe, do you want to go first?

00:01:56:17 - 00:02:10:19
Zoe
Ooh. Honestly, I think it was probably my boyfriend. I think was the first one, but he was dead asleep, so he did not find out until the morning. But that was definitely the first person I texted. that night.

00:02:10:19 - 00:02:15:11
Alison
That nine hour time zone wouldn't have worked to your advantage on that one, coming from Kelowna. And Jesse, what about you?

00:02:15:16 - 00:02:41:05
Jesse
Yeah. It was. I mean, I'd like to say it was my wife, but, no, it was my mom because she texted me, like, five minutes after we won. Like, trying to act really  casual like she hadn't been awake all night. Saying, like, oh, have you heard anything? So I FaceTimed or just with the, with the award, and it was fun watching her, like, recognize in real time what she was reading, because I think it was exactly, it was like one in the morning or something.

00:02:41:05 - 00:02:45:21
Alison
So I think your wife is can understand that. 

00:02:45:23 - 00:02:52:18
Jesse
Yeah, she, she, she woke up to the message and she seemed pretty excited when, when she found out. But yeah.

00:02:52:20 - 00:03:17:13
Alison
That is very cool. Well, needless to say, taking home a Gold Lion in design at Cannes is a monumental achievement, especially in the Young Lions competition, which has a very intense 24-hour brief. So huge congratulations, and I'd love you to walk me through the initial moments when you first saw the brief through to coming up with the award winning idea and executing it under such an incredibly tight time constraints.

00:03:17:14 - 00:03:19:11
Alison
So who wants to kick it off?

00:03:19:12 - 00:03:40:08
Zoe
Yeah, I can kick off like the brief aspect. We were in the this area. We were like eating, because we knew that was something we needed to do before getting into the competition. And we got briefed at 4:00, but we got the briefs sent to us, I think it was at 3:30. Yeah. And we forgot about that, that it was going to be sent to us.

00:03:40:08 - 00:04:07:14
Zoe
So as we were eating, it got sent through our email and we're like, the brief! We should probably read this. And we really were like, honestly, I was kind of like surprised or like, really like, scared of the brief. The brief was really tricky. And I think that Jesse and I were just talking about it, and my face was like, oh no, this is like a really hard brief.

00:04:07:14 - 00:04:29:00
Zoe
But we got some really good advice from one of our other Canadian Young Lions saying that if it's a hard breathe, it's actually a huge opportunity because everyone's going to see it as a hard brief. So you can just like go hard. If that's the case. So that was pretty intense at the the up front because we were like, oh, this is actually going to be like an all-nighter.

00:04:29:01 - 00:04:49:01
Jesse
Yeah I think yeah. So I think it's called the solarium, like the cafe, and you know, really the memory is just having, you know, the, the hot sun just beating down on us and really thinking like, okay, this is, yeah. This isn't going to be fun. This is, this is not going to be a cakewalk.

00:04:49:03 - 00:05:11:20
Jesse
And I think kind of recognizing like in that moment. Yeah. That, you know, we got in here representing Canada and that it wasn't going to get to trust that we were here on our own merit. But, you know, you see something like a brief as maybe outside of our boundaries as it was. And yeah, kind of recognizing that we're going to need to dig deep.

00:05:11:22 - 00:05:31:22
Jesse
You know, it's it's fun talking about it now, but I was definitely texting a few people, right when we got it. You can definitely see that the decline in like, sanity and just the stress really flow out. So I just want to, I just want to say I appreciate it. Everyone that had to listen to me freak out online.

00:05:32:00 - 00:05:44:02
Alison
Well, and the, being in the solarium, something like 32 degree heat, sunshine takes the whole concept of pressure cooker to a whole other level. Now what was it about the brief that made it so tricky and challenging?

00:05:44:04 - 00:06:21:20
Zoe
I'd have to say that, well, the brief was making an exhibition in India on Indian comic books. But not just that. It's like the history of storytelling or visual storytelling that leads to comic books. So there were so many layers as part of the brief. And on top of that, we had to name it. And I think the naming part was the thing that we were really freaked out about because we're not copywriters by trade, but now we like to pretend that we are because we we,

00:06:21:22 - 00:06:26:14
Zoe
I think we came up with a pretty sick name. Yeah. Go ahead. Jesse.

00:06:26:16 - 00:06:27:00
Jesse
Oh, no, no.

00:06:27:03 - 00:06:54:11
Jesse
No, I mean, it's it's exactly that I think in the Canadian for the Canadian portion of the Young Lions competition, the brief was around a biking event. That was something like a lot of, you know, experience with attending bike events. It was a space that I was really comfortable and interested in. So we kind of felt, you know, leading into that, that maybe we got lucky or that, you know, the things just sort of aligned for us to really hit the ground running there.

00:06:54:13 - 00:07:23:06
Jesse
And that just wasn't the case. You know, unfortunately, just recognizing our own paths that just didn't have a ton of cultural touch points to the history of sequential storytelling in India, so that this wasn't going to be something that we just luck into. It was going to be a lot of work. But definitely, you know, on the other side of that, realizing that it was, you know, a super cool and just feel super fortunate for having that opportunity to learn about the space because that was something that we had no idea about going into it.

00:07:23:06 - 00:07:31:16
Jesse
And on the other side now, it's something that I think during the presentation portion, we were like genuinely enthusiastic about championing it because it's incredible.

00:07:31:22 - 00:07:46:18
Alison
Well, that's such a great testament to the profession, because there are times, I've been agency side, I've been brand side, and there are times where you get a client, or you get a brief. It's like, oh, perfect. I have a passion for this. I have an interest for this. But most of the time it's like, okay, that's fascinating.

00:07:46:18 - 00:08:04:07
Alison
I don't know much about the market. I don't know much about the brand. I don't know much about the consumer and how you have to dig in and learn, and the fact that you dug in and learned in a very, very compressed time period and emerge with gold, that has to be even more gratifying. So huge, huge congratulations.

00:08:04:13 - 00:08:05:10
Jesse
Appreciate that.

00:08:05:12 - 00:08:18:17
Alison
So you've shared a bit about the significant creative hurdle that you were encountering with the brief. I'd love to hear, how did you leverage each other's strengths or challenge each other's thinking to overcome it? And Jesse, why don't you kick things off?

00:08:18:18 - 00:08:43:22
Jesse
Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think one thing that is maybe unique to our partnership, it was because we were put together as a team under the recommendation of our boss, Hans. A lot of teams designed specifically in Young Lions will be put together because, you know, they're two graphic designers. It's a graphic design competition so, you know, why wouldn't you want two people that are, you know, trained in the same discipline, working together?

00:08:43:22 - 00:09:05:13
Jesse
I think what's unique about our partnership is Zoe's trained in graphic design and I'm a motion designer. So when we approach, thinking, and approach, I guess conceptual identity thinking, we're coming at it from two different angles. I think in the moment there's things that, you know, maybe I'll think are obvious or Zoe we will think is obvious, and maybe the other person misses that.

00:09:05:13 - 00:09:35:22
Jesse
And I think it's nice because it's a bit more of a holistic approach to identity building that other teams, you know, maybe, might not have. So almost immediately, you know, we're thinking about a system larger than maybe what's on the brief. And I think in doing so, we're able to kind of like go big, recognize all the opportunities and then hone it down to sort of sort of what is the core idea and then hit the ground there.

00:09:36:00 - 00:09:38:08
Jesse
And I think that's kind of how we started.

00:09:38:10 - 00:09:54:15
Alison
It is super helpful to have different perspectives. And to your point, like really, it really helped broaden your approach and your thinking. Now, Zoe, you mentioned earlier that you also now can count yourselves as copywriters because part of this was coming up with the name and you said it was a sick name. So what was the name?

00:09:56:11 - 00:10:20:15
Zoe
Yeah, the name was IN FRAME, and I actually have to give credit to Jesse because he came up with this, in the sense that IN is like the shorthand for India and then frames is kind of like the device that are used within comic books, like the paneling and then the whole system is based around bringing Indian comic books centre frame.

00:10:20:17 - 00:10:35:09
Zoe
So then we have the comics and the, the artwork living within the IN as a framing device. So it's like this kind of full circle kind of identity within that. So that, that's definitely goes out to Jesse's IN.

00:10:35:11 - 00:10:35:23
Jesse
I mean,

00:10:36:00 - 00:11:04:05
Jesse
I'll say it's a, it's a 50/50 thing. I, when we first got the brief, when we left the Palais and we were walking back to our hotel. Yeah, we just started brainstorming. I think it's not a uncommon thing for people to recommend walking and brainstorming as like a really fruitful method for the idea building. And one of the ways they were defining this history of comics and visual storytelling was referred to as sequential storytelling.

00:11:04:07 - 00:11:20:04
Jesse
So I really locked on to just, you know, how many, what sort of phrases does it, sequence or sequential come up in? So I think I had a working title called IN Sequence that was, I think maybe what we, and then we split apart when we got to the hotel for about an hour to do some brainstorming.

00:11:20:04 - 00:11:32:09
Jesse
And then when I came back, Zoe, you were the one that had mentioned that you'd seen frame come up so much. So I think from there we kind of, it was a, it was a, it was a team effort. I did not want to take full credit for that.

00:11:32:10 - 00:11:34:22
Zoe
One word each.

00:11:35:00 - 00:11:39:19
Jesse
Exactly! And actually if we're going by word, by a letter count, you actually did more work.

00:11:39:19 - 00:11:42:20
Zoe
Letter count,  yeah.

00:11:42:22 - 00:12:01:10
Alison
And for our listeners, I know they're going to want to see the work, so we will link in the comments so that they can actually see your Gold Lion and your work as well. So looking back at the work, with just a little bit of distance, what's one element or specific design choice that you believe really elevated your entry above the rest?

00:12:01:12 - 00:12:29:16
Zoe
I think there's two pieces. There is a moment where we were dealing with like the system, and we had this framing device that we were excited about, but then Jesse discovered that underneath the N, there's this notch. And what happens is that there was an ability or an opportunity to put a speech bubble underneath it, which is very common within comic book storytelling, is the the speech bubble on and all that kind of stuff.

00:12:29:16 - 00:12:59:22
Zoe
And we had this opportunity to put the artwork within the framing device, but then also have them talking. And so we were able to have the characters speak within the system, which felt like really playful and interesting and, and no one else used speech bubbles at all, which I was surprised within any of the other work. So I think that was our first unlocking moment of making something really interesting and robust within a system.

00:13:00:04 - 00:13:23:05
Zoe
And then, we were the only like, from what I could tell the team that had motion or it had a robust motion system. So I think that was like the cherry on top was having this system that had something that was interesting with the speech bubble and then layering on top this like very great motion system as an aside.

00:13:23:07 - 00:13:53:12
Jesse
Doing the motion system, like, that was super fun. And I do, yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't disagree that is definitely maybe a differentiation point in comparison. But I do think our ability to work and iterate quickly just allowed us to sort of spin out so many different options so quickly that, you know, then when we were presenting to the judges, we weren't feeling like, you know, this is the, this is the idea we came up with 11 this morning and it's the best thing that we could do.

00:13:53:14 - 00:14:18:12
Jesse
I think an approach that our company Rethink really champions, that our bosses really champion, is this idea of, you know, 1 or 100. So you don't know if your first idea or your hundredth idea is the best one. And the only way to find out is to make 100 ideas. So in that, we were, you know, able to kind of build out, I don't want to say we didn't do 100 ideas, but I think, you know, we we went easy on ourselves.

00:14:18:12 - 00:14:43:11
Jesse
It was 24 hours. So, but there were, you know, multiple different inroads. And I think recognizing pretty early on just because of our, the speed that we're able to work out, that the idea that we were presenting wasn't the only thing we'd come up with. It was the best idea that we'd come up with. So there's a confidence that comes from that, and it's an approach that I don't know is reflected in other aspects of the industry.

00:14:43:13 - 00:14:45:10
Jesse
So super grateful for that.

00:14:45:12 - 00:15:07:09
Alison
That iterative approach certainly has served Rethink incredibly well on the 5th year, 5th year in a row, I believe, at Cannes, being the independent agency. So it's definitely serving you and the organization incredibly well. So in going through all of that iteration, how obvious was it to both of you that this idea was the winning idea?

00:15:07:11 - 00:15:26:00
Zoe
I don't know if it was obvious to me at that point. I think Jesse was like, he he knew. He had the feeling. He was like, oh, we did it. We nailed it. And I don't know if I was more, not pessimistic, but like, unsure. I was like, I don't know, like this is a global stage. Like, who knows?

00:15:26:00 - 00:15:50:00
Zoe
Like someone could have just like come out at it at a totally different angle and like, so I was a bit unsure. And I think it was mostly because it felt like the subject matter was just so different from what we've dealt with in the past. So it was like, I think when we were watching everyone at the, at the end, at the terrace, when they were doing the big reveal.

00:15:50:04 - 00:16:10:05
Zoe
I think that's when it kind of set in. Then I was like, okay, like, maybe we have a chance and then we got shortlisted and then we're like, oh, okay, I think, I think we might have won. So that was like, it took me some time to like go around until I felt more confident with it.

00:16:10:07 - 00:16:32:06
Jesse
I think I also don't want to act like I'm the not pessimistic one because, our work that we won the Canadian Division with, I was very like, basically until we submitted it, I was like, I don't see the I don't see this like it's it's interesting, but I don't see what's so good about it. So I would say we're 50/50 on...

00:16:32:08 - 00:16:52:01
Jesse
And I mean that's good. I think that's you know, that's sort of, you know, having someone like a partner that's checking you in that way and pushing you. Like when we were in Cannes, that was making me advocate for the importance of what we were hitting on. The strength of the idea. You know, if someone says, you know, I don't I don't really see this,

00:16:52:03 - 00:17:19:13
Jesse
That's something that you immediately, it forces you to advocate for the idea. And I know that was, you know, it really helped, even later into the presentation portion crystallize what was special in my mind about the whole thing. And the whole identity. And I think this was the case for the Canadian portion where I felt like, Zoe, you definitely had a way better vision for what it was going to be, but I was the one that was sort of saying, like, I don't see this.

00:17:19:13 - 00:17:34:05
Jesse
I don't, I don't get it yet. But like I, and I think that's the thing and I think this is a great example, you know, like a good team is that, you know, I didn't see it, but I trusted you and it worked out all right. And I think you trusted me. Maybe you didn't actually, I don't know, until we won.

00:17:34:05 - 00:17:34:19
Jesse
You're like, okay.

00:17:34:23 - 00:17:56:07
Zoe
We were out of time at that point, I had to trust you. No, I think that Jesse's like, right on. I think half of, like, the competition is like, you have to have a good rapport with your teammate. And like, we have a lot of trust and like, faith with each other that we can kind of like, you know, say the thing, which I think is really important.

00:17:56:08 - 00:18:14:18
Zoe
Like, we already had this like established relationship and like, we were like buddy, buddy, like all Cannes and like had a great time. And I think that's like, that's half the battle. It's just like making sure that you and your, your partner in this are like, good.

00:18:14:20 - 00:18:37:00
Jesse
Oh goodness. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't imagine doing such a stressful competition, and you know, working with someone that isn't, that isn't enjoying some aspect or isn't like able to see the lightness in how intense and like just just being able to have a laugh during this whole thing. Yeah. It's so important.

00:18:37:02 - 00:19:01:13
Zoe
Yeah. I was gonna say that we had like, our windows open and we were doing it at the hotel, like the whole competition within that 24 hours. And apparently one of the other Canadians that were also at their hotel could just, like, hear us laughing all night. But he said it was a good thing because it made them like, I don't know, just like feel at least someone was happy because I think they were having a stressful moment.

00:19:01:15 - 00:19:10:02
Zoe
We were just like obnoxiously laughing all night. So hopefully we didn't keep anyone up in the hotel too much.

00:19:10:04 - 00:19:31:18
Alison
You both share such powerful ingredients for a successful partnership. Absolutely trust, having the familiarity and respect for each other's expertise, and being willing to call each other on stuff and say, you know what? I don't get it. Yeah. Why do you why are you so sold on this particular concept? And Jesse, to your point, that helps you sort of streamline and focus your thinking on why do I think this is so great

00:19:31:18 - 00:19:48:01
Alison
if Zoe's not seeing it yet. And then humour, like in the in the biggest adversity, when you're under the most intense pressure, being able to laugh and just have that emotional release and remind yourself, it's like, yeah, this is stressful, but we're in the south of France competing for like the Young Lions competition on a global stage.

00:19:48:01 - 00:20:09:09
Alison
It's pretty damn good too. So just to remind yourselves of that, it sounds like those were all amazing ingredients that contributed to your success. So I was in the auditorium when your win was announced. So I was a thrilled Canadian. But I'd love to hear from you what it was like when you heard you won.

00:20:09:11 - 00:20:18:04
Zoe
I think it was a very visceral experience. It was a full body. Jesse screamed. 

00:20:18:06 - 00:20:37:09
Jesse
Yeah. I got like really, really excited. I do want to go on record, if there's anyone that I like punched in the back of the head to, like, get through the crowd, I just want to say I'm sorry. I kind of had blinders on and we didn't position ourselves well in the group. So we were like, right in the thick of things.

00:20:37:09 - 00:20:49:03
Jesse
And I think maybe me shouting really loudly sort of spooked a couple people. So everyone was kind of turning around and like, I knew where we needed to be. So I was clawing my way through the crowd.

00:20:49:05 - 00:20:54:06
Zoe
And I was just right behind him, so I didn't have to deal with any of that, which was nice.

00:20:54:08 - 00:21:07:17
Jesse
I want to go on record and apologize to any of the other countries that we might have, physically tapped along the way. I appreciate you, and I hope you understand. And you're welcome to come visit us in Canada whenever you like.

00:21:07:19 - 00:21:14:09
Alison
I think they will more than understand. And you were a very polite Canadian with that answer. So what have you done to celebrate the.

00:21:14:15 - 00:21:41:13
Jesse
Something that we recognized is that we're both, like pretty, we both enjoy habit and routine. And I think, you know, having like a consistent routine, at least in the day to day, is one of the things I see is like being effective to coming up with, you know, good ideas and good creativity. Sort of removing the friction points, all other aspects of life. You know, I mean, obviously this is dependant. Unfortunately, we did operate the exact same in Cannes.

00:21:41:15 - 00:21:50:14
Jesse
So we ate at the same sandwich place. And when I say like, sandwich place, it was a bar that like served a sandwich that we just found on the first day.

00:21:50:14 - 00:21:51:20
Zoe
It was a panini.

00:21:51:23 - 00:22:10:18
Jesse
It was a panini. Sorry. It was a panini. So we ate there, what, like 4 to 5 days of the seven days we were there. So we knew that when we won, we had to go back and tell the guy that we've won and eat a celebratory sandwich. So that was, that was the immediate thing. And, you know, he was he was excited.

00:22:10:18 - 00:22:14:08
Jesse
I don't think he really got what was going on. But you know.

00:22:14:09 - 00:22:29:17
Zoe
We like celebrated him. His name was Benjamin. And we came in like every day and was like, hey. But I think like he just like accepted that we arrived and like, liked him. But yeah, I don't know. He was just like, I'm just doing my job.

00:22:29:18 - 00:22:47:17
Jesse
Yeah, we were sort of forcing our personalities on this guy. I think we really built him up to be a real figure in our lives during our time there, and he, you know, was happy that we paid the €8 for a panini, but probably couldn't have cared less. No, he was happy that we were there to celebrate.

00:22:47:22 - 00:22:52:14
Jesse
So that was, yeah, the immediate thing. And then obviously, you know, calling our partners.

00:22:52:16 - 00:23:02:01
Alison
I love the celebratory panini. And you created that like daily touchpoint, right. Like that's, way to go Ben for having a role in Canada's gold.

00:23:02:01 - 00:23:06:14
Jesse
He's alive in our heart. He's an honorary Canadian. Whenever he wants to come here, happily celebrate that guy?

00:23:06:19 - 00:23:08:16
Alison
You're gonna have a lot of visitors.

00:23:08:18 - 00:23:12:06
Jesse
I'm excited. It's, It's a beautiful country, I love to show it off.

00:23:12:09 - 00:23:19:06
Alison
I couldn't agree more. So what have you learned about yourselves going through this process that you will carry forward in your careers?

00:23:19:08 - 00:23:55:23
Zoe
I think the biggest thing that really helped us with the win was distilling the idea into, like, one thing and making the case for it in the presentation. I think we didn't understand the value of like the presentation aspect before going in, until we did some of the boot camps with The Globe and Mail. So I think like distilling the idea into like this one thing and then framing like the colour, the type and like everything back to that main point was such a great way to sell it.

00:23:56:01 - 00:24:20:17
Zoe
And I think that's really what helped us in the end, was having just such a like, easy thing to understand. And I think that is one piece in terms of the process I want to like keep doing throughout all our projects, because I think it just makes it way more understandable for people. Like I imagine with like clients and stuff, who maybe don't work with that stuff all the time in terms of design.

00:24:20:19 - 00:24:23:07
Zoe
But that's probably the biggest piece for me at least.

00:24:23:09 - 00:24:46:04
Jesse
Yeah. And I think on my end, which is speaking as a motion graphics designer, like it's, it's a role that's traditionally more technical focused. And I sort of expected for my career, you know, a large portion of my career, I would basically just be, you know, making, being told what to make being. Yeah, serving a more technical role in a production capacity.

00:24:46:06 - 00:25:15:21
Jesse
I think this entire experience has made me recognize that I have a real capacity for, you know, getting up and advocating for the importance of design, the importance of motion in identity systems, and really just recognizing my own enthusiasm for what I do and what we do. So, yeah, really building a lot of confidence from that. And I say this in that, you know, I think it's something that our boss has seen in us the entire time.

00:25:15:21 - 00:25:50:18
Jesse
I think it unfortunately can take, you know, winning something like that. You know, you can, someone can tell you that, you know, you should be doing these things. But it's opportunities like this that make you realize your own ability to kind of push past, you know, your comfort zone. I don't know why I wasn't thinking it was something I was able to do, but, you know, forcing yourself to get up in front of a group of people nationally and then internationally and advocate for the importance of something you've made, the confidence that comes from that and the confidence that comes from honestly winning, shortlisting, just being there is huge.

00:25:50:19 - 00:26:07:06
Jesse
And I yeah, I really recommend anyone who, you know, thinks that they might not be able to do that or that might not be something that they'd be interested in or just doesn't sound like them, to give it a go, because there's really the only way to find out is by doing it. And that's sort of my case.

00:26:07:06 - 00:26:10:13
Jesse
I, I didn't know I had it in me, and it's fun now.

00:26:10:15 - 00:26:47:01
Alison
That's great advice and Jesse, it's a great for your career. It's also great for the Canadian advertising profession that you now realize it's not just about you executing other people's ideas. You clearly are incredibly capable of coming up with great creativity on your own and in partnership with Zoe. So that's amazing to hear. And then Zoe your call out about the Globe and Mail Boot Camps, I love the role the Globe is playing in really helping nurture amazing talent like the two of you and across the broad marketing ecosystem, and helping set you up for success by giving you those boot camps and that training going into the national and the global competitions.

00:26:47:01 - 00:26:49:10
Alison
So huge shout out to the Globe as well.

00:26:49:12 - 00:27:10:05
Jesse
I think they said we were the only, one of the few countries that has one of those boot camp systems before, and I mean, the results speak for itself. I think we were the most medals and the most shortlisted of any of the countries in the Young Lion's competition. So clearly it's paying off. The vision there is clear and it's yeah, super grateful to be a part of it.

00:27:10:07 - 00:27:28:10
Alison
That's amazing. Before I let you get on with your busy day, I want to end with a quick question. For all of the aspiring young creatives in Canada who are listening to our episode today, what's the single most important piece of advice that you would offer them about cultivating a mindset that can help lead to breakthrough creative work?

00:27:28:12 - 00:27:55:14
Zoe
I would say believe that you can, I think is the biggest thing is that, some people and I've definitely found myself doing this is where you, like, cut yourself short or you don't apply or you like, don't think you can, so you don't. So I think the biggest piece is like, just try and try to put your stuff in competitions, try competitions, try making those big ideas.

00:27:55:16 - 00:28:02:09
Zoe
And the worst case scenario is that it doesn't land. But at least you have the knowledge to keep trying and doing things.

00:28:02:11 - 00:28:33:15
Jesse
I guess what I would say is really focus on being, this might sound silly, but like being kind to, you know, whoever you're working with, being kind to yourself. It's a super, just the industry in general is so it can be so intense and it can be so unforgiving in aspects. So finding, you know, that kindness, that empathy, if you can carry that, it helps to kind of build a, you know, a team, a network around you.

00:28:33:20 - 00:28:56:02
Jesse
It just makes working with people so much easier. The trust is so much easier developed when you know you can freely pass an idea to someone. and there isn't this fear of criticism. There isn't this fear of being laughed at. Because laughter is important in the whole process, as we talked about. But, you know, if it's borne out of fun and not malice, then it just makes the work so much better.

00:28:56:02 - 00:29:24:18
Jesse
I think we both see our work as like kind of this playful act, and that's all borne out of, you know, a trust and a lightness that I think comes from, you know, having a general empathy for the other person. So it's been, that would that would be what I'd recommend. Like, don't be too serious. There's so many serious people in the world like, what we do is so fun and so cool, just like take a step back and enjoy it.

00:29:24:20 - 00:29:44:22
Alison
They're both excellent pieces of advice and Jesse, I love the be kind to others. I also love be kind to yourself because it is a profession that can be all-consuming. It's a ton of fun. We're so lucky and privileged to do what we do, and there is an intensity and a competitiveness to it. And we can often be really hard on ourselves and 

00:29:44:22 - 00:30:05:20
Alison
In some ways, that's what makes us all successful. But you also have to be kind to yourself and cut yourself some slack. And then Zoe, you calling out, put yourself out there. Try. Experiment. It's not always going to end up in the Gold Lion, but every time you put yourself out there and try something new and submit, work for creatives or raise your hand for a new opportunity, you're going to learn from that.

00:30:05:20 - 00:30:24:07
Alison
And that's true for anyone in the creative side of our profession. It's true for anyone in our profession, whether they're on the media side, the brand side. That is the best way to grow your career and to grow your skill set and to ultimately thrive. So Zoe and Jesse, it has been an absolute thrill to have you both on the CMA Connect podcast.

00:30:24:09 - 00:30:28:17
Alison
Congratulations again, and I'm really looking forward to what comes next for both of you.

00:30:28:19 - 00:30:29:06
Jesse
Thank you so much.

00:30:29:06 - 00:30:29:16
Zoe
Thank you.

00:30:29:17 - 00:30:32:02
Jesse
Thank you. I appreciate being here.

00:30:32:04 - 00:30:38:18
Alison
Really great conversation, you guys.

00:30:38:20 - 00:30:51:09
Presenter
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