Workforce Therapy Files

This podcast is designed for business leaders and human resource professionals who are challenged with expanding their workforce. Workforce Therapy Files, an Employer Solutions Podcast, is hosted by 3 separate business owners who operate in the staffing and human resources space. They'll provide perspectives, tips and advice (along with a little humor) to help you prepare for and manage your workforce challenges. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: • Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com • Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com • Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com We hope you find it insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

Why Hiring Is Broken: Moving Beyond “Check-the-Box” Recruiting 04/27/2026

Why Hiring Is Broken: Moving Beyond “Check-the-Box” Recruiting File 36: In this file of Workforce Therapy Files, the hosts spotlight Molley Ricketts, founder and CEO of Incipio Workforce Solutions, and explore her journey building a people-first recruiting firm. Molley shares how her early experiences shaped her belief that hiring should be intentional rather than transactional. The conversation dives into common hiring mistakes, including reactive recruiting and outdated job descriptions. They also unpack the real cost of bad hires and why culture alignment matters more than filling a seat quickly. Molley highlights the overlooked value of essential workers and the importance of recognizing their contributions beyond moments of crisis. The group discusses leadership growth, the difference between founder and CEO roles, and how to scale a business while maintaining culture. Practical insights around networking, strategy, and long-term talent development are woven throughout. The file ultimately challenges leaders to rethink how they approach hiring, culture, and workforce strategy. Key Themes: Molley Ricketts’ Origin Story: From Corporate to Entrepreneur Reactive Hiring vs. Strategic Talent Planning The Real Cost of a Bad Hire vs. an Open Position Essential Workers: Why Their Value Is Still Overlooked Scaling a Business Without Losing Culture and Leadership Identity File Transcript: Jamie Swaim: Welcome back to another amazing episode of the Workforce Therapy Files. Today we are continuing a theme where we're getting to know the hosts of Workforce Therapy Files, and today we are dedicating our time completely to the one, the only, the incredible, the author… Molley Ricketts: International bestseller. Jamie Swaim: The international bestseller. You're not supposed to do your own intro, but dang it, Molley Ricketts: I didn't want you to miss it. Jamie Swaim: I'm not going to ask Jim to redo it because… Jason Heflin: A quick plug, but international best seller for what? Molley Ricketts: She Knows Best. Jamie Swaim: Author of international bestselling book, , Molley Ricketts. Molley Ricketts: Thanks. Thanks for having me on the show. Jamie Swaim: Very good. Molley Ricketts: Thanks. Jamie Swaim: Molley. I know we’ll give you some questions and you prepared some things that you definitely want to talk about today, but you're not prepared. Jason Heflin: We're not going to ask you any of those questions. Jamie Swaim: We're not going to ask you any of them. We've got a whole list. Molley Ricketts: I feel so unprepared now. Jamie Swaim: All right. If you had to teach a master class tomorrow about something that has nothing to do with your business or your job, what would it be on? Molley Ricketts: Boating. Jamie Swaim: Boating. Jason Heflin: That's Boating with a B, not voting with a V. Molley Ricketts: Oh no. You don't want me to teach that class! Jamie Swaim: How'd you get into boating? Molley Ricketts: Grew up around it. Jamie Swaim: Yeah. Molley Ricketts: I was driving a boat before I was driving a car. Jamie Swaim: So now we'll also call you Captain Molley Ricketts. Jason Heflin: She's been a captain for us lately, like getting some of this content ready and stuff. Jamie Swaim: Yeah. I don't know if you guys know this, but our podcast wouldn't happen if it wasn't for Molley Ricketts. Molley Ricketts: Oh, stop. Jamie Swaim: She gets us together. She tells us what we're going to talk about. She gets us guests. She found Jim. Yeah. Your face should be bigger on our sticker. Molley Ricketts: I like that. Jamie Swaim: But you're already in the middle, so I guess there's that. Okay. Molley Ricketts: The Red glasses. Jamie Swaim: So let's just like every hero or villain in a story. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. Molley Ricketts’ Origin Story: From Corporate to Entrepreneur Jamie Swaim: They all have a good origin story. Let's talk about yours. Molley Ricketts: Okay. Jamie Swaim: What problem in the workforce space frustrated you so much that you were like, nobody else is doing this, so I'm going to build a company and I'm going to be the one to do it? Molley Ricketts: It stemmed from working with organizations that continue to look at recruiting as a transaction and checking a box to fill a seat. The opportunities that come with an organization that are intentional about the people that they're putting in those seats and that are intentional about the knowledge, skills, and abilities that they're bringing into the company. When you really think about it and make that decision based on growth and succession, instead of checking-the-box, you change the game. And for so long, the companies that I was working with, that's all they wanted to do. Jamie Swaim: Yeah. I got you. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. Jamie Swaim: Your company's name is Incipio. We didn't mention that in the intro. Jason Heflin: Incipio Works. Jamie Swaim: Incipio Workforce Solutions. Yep. So was Incipio the first company you started? Molley Ricketts: It was not. Jamie Swaim: What? There's another story here. I did not know this. Molley Ricketts: So I worked with a corporate organization for almost 12 years and learned a lot. It was a great experience. It was also one of those great golden handcuff companies where you've got the great pay, great benefits, great PTO. Jamie Swaim: Did you have a pension? Molley Ricketts: Yeah. Jamie Swaim: What? Molley Ricketts: Can you believe it? Jamie Swaim: No. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. So there were other plans for me. I was part of the second wave of layoffs that banking institution had, and I thought, you know what? I can do this. I can do this on my own. But I had two small kids and didn't think that I could lean into myself enough to financially support the family. My husband was working, he had a stable job, still does, and it was all great, but taking that leap of faith on myself was a little too scary. So I went out and I said, okay, if anybody was going to hire me to solve their recruiting problems, and all I have on my resume is 12 years of a corporate job, they're going to look at me and think, no. Jamie Swaim: That's not going to work over here in my widget-making. Molley Ricketts: So, I went to work for a small company here in Louisville. Architects and engineers, Luckett and Farley. I'm a history nerd. So they were the official architects of the Twin Spires at Churchill Downs from 18, whatever that year was, sorry, I don't remember. So I thought, how cool would that be? And learned a lot from there. And then I was tapped to work a contract position with GE through YO Corporation out of northern, the New England area, and learned a lot there, especially working as a third party for a corporate company like GE. Learned a lot. And through that, a lot of the managers and leaders that I had worked with in the past at Citigroup said, Hey, the person that I'm working with now, I don't like them recruiting for me. Can you help me? So my first company started itself basically, because people that I had worked with in the past reached out and I thought, I can do this. I can work full-time job and come home and work again. Sorry, Chad. And that's what I did. So my first company was Starting Line Staffing Consultants. Jamie Swaim: Starting line? Molley Ricketts: Starting line. Jamie Swaim: Because you love the track. Molley Ricketts: Yes. Jamie Swaim: Yes. That's a great name for your company. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. And it was a starting line for new employees, for new companies. Right? Jamie Swaim: For sure. Molley Ricketts: So I did that. So I worked full-time as a contractor through YO at GE, and I had my own business on the side, and the business started to grow and I had to make a decision. I was like, I don't have that real third-party experience. So, I went to work for a temporary agency and continued to affirm that that's not the business that I wanted. Through that education and learning really took my Starting Line business and pulled it into that temporary agency and learned a lot after two and a half years and discovered that wasn't a good fit for me and decided to leave there and took on the adventure of giving myself a few months of a break to get my stuff together. Did you like that? I said stuff I didn't. Jason Heflin: Very well done. Yeah. Molley Ricketts: Thank you. Thank you. Jamie Swaim: Such growth, really. Molley Ricketts: Right, right. So I took a few months and really got a plan together. And Jason, to your point of really understanding what it was at the minimum expectations I had to set for myself, that was hard because I'd had so much responsibility in leadership opportunities in the previous positions, and I missed that, because now I'm the only one. And when I started Incipio and the frustration that I had seen with other organizations that I'd been a part of that we were working with, I just saw that real lack of focus and the transactional filling of seats that companies were used to, and there's got to be more than this. The satisfaction that I felt early on in my career, why can't other people feel that? And they should. Why has it become acceptable that they don't have to? So Starting Line was then dissolved, worked for the third party, and Incipio was born, which is Latin for new beginnings. Jamie Swaim: Look at all this intentionality. Jason Heflin: I know. Jamie Swaim: I know. Jason Heflin: I just start on a whim and she's over here thinking about it. Jamie Swaim: I love it. So if you were to think about the thing that you have changed your mind on in the past 10 years as it relates to talent, what's the thing that you believed 10 years ago that you no longer believe? Molley Ricketts: Everything's on a resume. Jamie Swaim: Oh yeah. Molley Ricketts: Maybe it used to be that way. Jamie Swaim: No, I think it was probably wrong then too. Molley Ricketts: You think? Jamie Swaim: Well, I think it's because you have to decide what you are hiring for. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. Jamie Swaim: Are you hiring a resume writer? And if your job is not to be a resume writer, then it's probably not going to be a perfect resume. Molley Ricketts: Fair. Jamie Swaim: That’s my take on it. Yeah. Jason Heflin: Alright. I'm going to ask some questions now. Jamie Swaim: That's good. I'm going to shut up now. Jason Heflin: Or don't. Please don't. Jamie Swaim: Okay, good Reactive Hiring vs. Strategic Talent Planning Jason Heflin: What are employers still getting wrong about hiring all this time? Molley Ricketts: Just one thing? Jason Heflin: Yeah. Molley Ricketts: I believe that employers are still getting wrong just in hiring and recruiting, that they're reactive. That because a person leaves or a position goes unfilled, that that position has to be filled. It's this job, it's no other job. And instead of taking a step back and really evaluating the landscape and understanding what position is missing, they're just reactive hiring. And this crazy thing happens when you really look at the job descriptions that you're hiring against when you're frustrated because the talent that's walking in the door that you want to hire to isn't the person that you want to fill the job. And the amount of times that I will ask a leader, well, did you read the job description? Jason Heflin: Yeah. Molley Ricketts: Well, recently? Yeah, before you posted it. Well, no, because the job that I need to fill. For the person that was here two years ago? You don't think that job has evolved at all, even in the smallest skillset? Jason Heflin: Oh yeah. Molley Ricketts: Oh, well, I guess. Jamie Swaim: You change systems. Molley Ricketts: You're not even on the same tech stack. Jamie Swaim: You all don’t even produce that anymore. Jason Heflin: We're still recruiting for it. You had new responsibilities to that role. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. Well, I wonder why I wasn't getting the talent I was still looking for. It's like stop reactive hiring. Jason Heflin: Yeah. And rewrite that job description, please. Sounds like. Well, we're leaders confusing activity and with strategy that seems very common and we all do it, but the activity isn't always strategy. Where do they get that message up? Molley Ricketts: Post and pray. Jason Heflin: I say that all the time. Molley Ricketts: The post and pray mentality. I know that you guys know what that is, but for those listeners that may not, it's when you post a job and you pray that candidates come into play, especially in today's day and age. Let's even go back to rewriting a job description that's relevant to the position that you want to fill. But thinking that people are just going to apply to a job that you've posted. If you don't have a brand that's nationally recognized, that's probably not going to happen. And even if you do have a brand that's nationally recognized, the talent that you're wanting, they're not applying to jobs. They're working. Not saying that the demographic of human that isn't working right now they're not quality talent. I'm not saying that. Please don't confuse the note of, you have to be intentional about the position that you want to fill. Jamie Swaim: Agreed. The Real Cost of a Bad Hire vs. an Open Position Jason Heflin: Yeah. I think networking too. Networking has gone out the window. It's like, well, you may know someone, you may be working with someone at another institution that could be a good fit. Let's talk about that. What's the real cost of a bad hire that most executives… Jamie Swaim: Oh no. Is she going to tell us about soft dollars? Molley Ricketts: Here we go. I asked someone recently, I said, so do you think that having a position go unfilled is more costly than that of a bad hire? And they said, absolutely. I said, really? Tell me more. Well, because you've got the position. It's unfilled. They're not, no one's doing the job. I said, so you're telling me that that costs you more as an organization than filling the position with someone who is not a good fit? And everything that you have to go through in that experience to then get rid of them costs less than having the position vancant? Jason Heflin: And the cultural repercussions, because others have to fill that role for that. Not just fill an empty seat, but come back behind someone and clean things up and try to educate and try to train while doing the job and all those things. Molley Ricketts: And as a leader, if you're acknowledging that that person isn't the right fit, everyone that's around that person that knows that you know that they're not the right fit, they're like, well hell, if they're going to put up with this person, then why am I busting my butt to make it happen? Jamie Swaim: Especially if that hire was in a spot that is at a higher-level than that person that is doing the work. Molley Ricketts: Tight spot. Jamie Swaim: Really tight. Yeah. Essential Workers: Why Their Value Is Still Overlooked Jason Heflin: Wow. Alright. I got a question about essential workers. A lot about essential workers. Molley Ricketts: Yes, they're my jam. Jason Heflin: Yes, they're your jam. What's happening with essential workers that the media isn't talking about that people should be talking about? Molley Ricketts: So does everybody remember what happened back in 2020? Jamie Swaim: With painful clarity. Molley Ricketts: Do you remember the people that, I believe the federal government issued a thing that people were supposed to print out to put on their dashboards if they were an essential worker so that they could be on the road so that they could be parked in a parking lot so that they could be actually going to work? Do you guys remember that? Jamie Swaim: I don't know if it was federal, but yes, I remember the parking passes. Yeah. I remember having to make sure that people across straight, the state lines especially had something explaining why they had to cross the state lines and stuff like that. Jason Heflin: Yeah. There were privileges around it. Jamie Swaim: Privilege. Molley Ricketts: Essential workers were privileged, in that category. Jason Heflin: Valued. Molley Ricketts: I mean, revered. These are the people going to work every day, making it happen. Lifting them up! Jason Heflin: Utility workers, nurses, yeah. Molley Ricketts: Manufacturing. I mean, it's crazy, right? Jamie Swaim: Yeah absolutely. Molley Ricketts: And then what? Jamie Swaim: The world opened back up. Jason Heflin: Back to reality. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. So they weren't special anymore. Do you guys know that over 70% of the nation's workers is an essential worker? Jamie Swaim: 70%? Molley Ricketts: 70%? Jamie Swaim: I did not know that. Molley Ricketts: 70%. Jamie Swaim: That number surprises me for some reason, and I don't know why. Molley Ricketts: It did me too. Jamie Swaim: I guess when you think about all the things that prop up a community, essential workers are a large part of that. Molley Ricketts: So the ones that are actually doing the thing, doing the work. Jamie Swaim: Yeah. Molley Ricketts: It's so disheartening that individuals in that category of worker are no longer lifted up the way that they were. I really thought that that was going to help make a change and people would admire and look at those committed individuals in manufacturing, in long-term care, in the hospital environment Jamie Swaim: And logistics, Molley Ricketts: All of that. And it just went away. Jamie Swaim: And you feel like the media is not talking about that enough. How would you expect, if we were to keep the lessons of 2020, how would you expect to see those things show up now, if we learned from it and did something different? Molley Ricketts: I think acknowledging the power of their work, the influence of their work, instead of, it feels less than. If you have a blue collar job, if you have an entry-level to mid-level manager position in your community, in your home, it almost feels like they belittled. That their job isn't a value because I'm the vice president of whatever, so I'm greater than, and that hurts my heart. Jason Heflin: So if I get pulled over by a police officer and I say, look, I'm a podcaster. I really got to get where I'm going. Oh sir, please. Yeah, go right on. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Swaim: Sad note. I got pulled over recently in the great state of Indiana, and I would just like to thank the nice trooper for being the nicest person that's ever pulled me over. He was really kind - little side note. Molley Ricketts: Did he give you a ticket? Jamie Swaim: 100%. He absolutely gave me a ticket. Jason Heflin: Do you listen to the Workforce Therapy Files? Jamie Swaim: Do you know who I am? Is what I said. That didn't get me any clout. So yeah, no, he was like, did you know that you were speeding? And I said, oh, I just got off the interstate, so I guess I'm still an interstate mind. And he goes, you are going fast for the interstate. So I had to slow it down. Molley Ricketts: But just to wrap the essential worker category up, loyalty isn't something that is assumed it's earned. And in that category of worker, it's earned every day. Jamie Swaim: And obviously we need those or they wouldn't have been deemed essential. So how we treat those individuals in our community matters. Molley Ricketts: Hundred percent. Jamie Swaim: Yeah. I'm picking a bunch, putting down. Molley Ricketts: Thanks. Scaling a Business Without Losing Culture and Leadership Identity Jamie Swaim: Absolutely. Okay. So Molley, you're going to switch gears a smidge. In your career, and especially with Incipio, you have scaled a business, your second business, and you've done that. And we spent so much time talking about culture and it's importance. So I want to ask you some questions specific to what it means to scale a business without losing sight of culture. What do you think intentional growth has looked like in your business? ... /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40992030

The Real Cost of Winning: Why Jason Heflin Exchanged Toxic Growth for Time and Family Empowerment 04/10/2026

The Real Cost of Winning: Why Jason Heflin Exchanged Toxic Growth for Time and Family Empowerment File 35: Jason Heflin sits in the "hot seat" to share insights from his entrepreneurial journey, which began after he realized he was not wired for the repetitive nature of a corporate cubicle. The interview explores his core business philosophy of avoiding commoditization by prioritizing deep, long-term strategic partnerships over one-off product services. When asked about scaling a business, Jason highlights the importance of "stick-to-itiveness" and the risk-taking necessary to overcome the fear of failure. He admits that his greatest operational challenge was learning to embrace standardized processes, a discipline that often feels restrictive to his "free spirit" nature. Regarding team management, Jason emphasizes accountability through ownership and the difficult but necessary decision to let go of talented individuals who are not a cultural fit. Reflecting on his diverse past ventures—ranging from a diaper bag company to a brewery—he cautions against chasing every "shiny object" without a clear plan or genuine passion. Having once prioritized "winning" at the cost of his personal life, he has since redefined success to focus on family and empowering others to lead. Finally, he identifies his company's differentiator as a results-driven culture where team members genuinely care about outcomes and are not afraid to pivot when strategies fail. Key Themes: Breaking Free from the Gray Cubicle The Partnership Obsession The "Stick-to-itiveness" of Scaling The Copper Touch: Lessons from Diaper Bags to Breweries Ownership and the Hard Truths of Leadership Redefining the Win: From Toxic Growth to Time Well Spent Episode Transcript: Jamie Swaim: Today on the Workforce Therapy files. We'd like to welcome you back and also tell you that we have a special guest that is in the hot seat. Molley Ricketts: Who? Jamie Swaim: It's none other than your favorite. Jason Heflin. Yes. Molley Ricketts: And the crowd goes wild! Jamie Swaim: So, Mr. Heflin, we have a number of questions that we'd like to just pick your brain on in this episode, in this file. Jason Heflin: I’m turning my hat around backwards for this. Molley Ricketts: Uh-oh. Jamie Swaim: Is that straight up? Out of over the top. Are you Lincoln Hawk? Jason Heflin: Whoa. Jamie Swaim: Yes. Might've been one of my favorite movies. I'm not going to lie. Molley Ricketts: He trembled a little bit. Jamie Swaim: I know. And I'm ready to arm wrestle him just to see what happens. So Jason, I want to start off with, if you were a professional athlete and you had walk-in music, what would be the theme song you would choose? Jason Heflin: The Final Countdown. Jamie Swaim: Oh, there was a little harmony there. I like it. Final Countdown. Gosh, I do feel like that's a song I haven't heard recent enough. Jason Heflin: Yeah. There was a show 20 years ago called Arrested Development. Jamie Swaim: Yes, Jason Heflin: It was great, and one of the characters would always come out to that song. He was a magician, and that's how he would come out. He would do a little dance. Molley Ricketts: It's a great show. Jason Heflin: It's a great show. Jamie Swaim: Jason Bateman, right? Molley Ricketts: Yeah, Jason Bateman. Molley Ricketts: In the early years. Jamie Swaim: He's one of my favorites. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. Jamie Swaim: Okay. Now we're going to get more serious, but it's helpful to know because I feel like when I see people and I know that about them, immediately this song pops in my head. Jason Heflin: Maybe it should be the intro, Jim, to this episode. Jamie Swaim: He said you can't afford that. Yeah. Jason Heflin: We’ll just have to sing it! Jamie Swaim: That public domain? Is that how it works? Molley Ricketts: Copyright laws. Jamie Swaim: I dunno. Alright. So, Jason, what was the first moment that you realized you were wired for entrepreneurship? Jason Heflin: About six or seven years into sitting in a gray cubicle in a corporate office. Jamie Swaim: You're like, this is not for me. Jason Heflin: Doing TPS reports. Jamie Swaim: You’ve been missing a lot of work, Jason. Jason Heflin: I said 'm going to do something else and it's not going to be for someone else. I need to exercise that muscle. Jamie Swaim: How long did that take you? Jason Heflin: Oh, like I said, six or seven years. Jamie Swaim: Six or seven years. Jason Heflin: 6-7. Jamie Swaim: Okay. What problem are you most obsessed with solving right now? Jason Heflin: Not being a commodity. Jamie Swaim: Tell me more. Jason Heflin: So I don't want our services to be commoditized. And I think often that's the way we're approached initially is, Hey, we need a website, or we need ads for hiring, or we want to attract talent through digital advertising, blah, blah. Whatever the thing is. And they're just looking at it like a commodity. Jamie Swaim: Dollar. Product. Jason Heflin: Yeah. Do you do it? We're going to ask 12 other people the same thing. And then whoever has the cheapest prices who we're going to pick. I want to build long-term partnerships. I mean, that's what I've always wanted. That's what we strive to do. And so it's really hard for me when someone enters our funnel as looking at us as a commodity. And then you have to kind of flip that and say, no, I want to go to lunch and get to know you and your team and what we're trying to do here, and let's build a strategy around it. I don't want to just do the thing. And then you're disappointed in six months. I want to really dig into what the true issues are. Jamie Swaim: I would imagine what the kind of work that you do, the longer-term relationships create better outputs any way. Jason Heflin: Oh yeah. Jamie Swaim: It’s not like, oh, let me put together your whole employment brand because I've known you for two seconds. Jason Heflin: We've had clients for 12 plus years and they're the best. I love ‘em. They're friends, they're partners. Partners is overused, but it's true. They're real partners. We're in their business. We go in their office and the admins know us and just shoo us on back to the conference room and no security and just, yeah. Jamie Swaim: Yeah. Molley Ricketts: It makes a difference. Jamie Swaim: I'm assuming, because you've been in business now for 72 years? Jason Heflin: 73. Jamie Swaim: 73, okay. I don't want to undersell your knowledge, but I'm curious, how has your definition of success evolved across that 73-year spectrum? Jason Heflin: Well, in the year 1 through 50, I was really more focused on winning. So it was more toxic culture, toxic growth for the sake of growth. But yeah, so I'm more focused on time with my family, treating people really well, building partnerships, long-term partnerships I want to be in for years with somebody. I don't want to waste anybody's time. So yeah, less winning, more hanging. Jamie Swaim: Well, as someone who's known you for at least 30 of those 73 years, I think it's a solid choice. People should do it. Jason Heflin: Thanks. Jamie Swaim: Yeah, for sure. Molley Ricketts: All right, Jason, so what do you think separates entrepreneurs who scale from the ones who stall? Jason Heflin: Sticktoitiveness. Is that a word? Jamie Swaim: It is now. Jason Heflin: Okay. Webster's definition of sticktoitiveness is staying the course. Go. I mean, I think the ones that don't scale are maybe fearful. Being an entrepreneur is about risk, and you have to be willing to take those risks. And if you're not, it's going to be a very slow process. So don't expect it to be a quick run. If you're not willing to lose and lose multiple times. Molley Ricketts: You definitely have to be okay with the word no, a lot. Jason Heflin: I've started and sold at least four businesses in my life, and I made that mistake many times over in the past. Molley Ricketts: So what operational discipline do you think takes founders way too long to execute, to learn? What do they avoid for too long? Jason Heflin: In my experience, this is self-reflection, but it was process, building processes around commonly common tasks. Jamie Swaim: Standard work. Jason Heflin: Yep. Things that we do over and over again. We know how to do. Somebody's already figured out step one through six, just put it down, this is it. These are the rules. We can change the rules anytime if things in the environment change. But yeah, and I resist process because I'm a free spirit. I just want to operate. I'm a cowboy. I don't want to be pinned down. So that's tough for me. And my business partner's really good at it. So we have complimented each other in that way over the years. Molley Ricketts: I agree. It's definitely as a fellow free spirit, seeing things on paper with process and 1, 2, 3, A, B, C, and it's like, really? You couldn't just do it? Jason Heflin: I get itchy. I feel pinned in. Jamie Swaim: I know this isn't something that you said, but I'm curious around the same question because I know we're interviewing Jason, but we like to have a little chitchat. I feel like the founder relationship with cash also is something that might get in the way of people scaling. And I don't know how you guys have done that or whether or not that's a challenge that you had, but for the bootstrappers or the individuals who are getting started with some sort of investment cash, figuring out how to leverage debt, figuring out how to budget for the down months, figuring out how to do that and not be, I don't know, discouraged from continuing. I know you guys have had nothing but green, gold star months in your careers as entrepreneurs, but I'm curious what you might advise for the people who are doing those entrepreneur journeys, anew. Jason Heflin: I think prepare for the downtimes. The thing that you think, oh, if this happened, that would be bad. Well get ready for it. It's going to happen eventually. Just get ready, build a plan around it. If this, then this, if this, then that. And sometimes it's even helpful to kind of draw that out like a little tree. Just like, okay, if this happens, I'm going to do this and just be ready. And that way when it happens, you're much more at ease. You can say, okay, I have a plan. I can follow it. I don't know if it's going to work, but I have alternate routes I can take. Jamie Swaim: Name it and claim it. Jason Heflin: Yep. Molley Ricketts: For me, it was business debt is completely different than personal debt, but personal debt for me was always, you don't have that. That's how you freedom and survive and live. But business debt, I went in with that same mentality, but learned that it's not the same at all. So when you think about looking at a business and you want to scale, you want to grow, where do you see businesses overcomplicating that growth? Jason Heflin: Well, on the topic of hiring, I think it's quick fix hiring. And I've been guilty of that many times. Just like, oh, this person has the credentials. Let's go hire them and let's just move. And we talked about that in a previous episode recently. It's just it does not work. It won't ever work. You might get lucky and their resume is everything about them, but most often it's not so quick. Jamie Swaim: Especially with AI, right? Yeah. Jamie Swaim: People are putting resumes together because they think that's what you want to see sometimes. Jason Heflin: Yeah, yeah. Lean into the interview. Don't be afraid to have a long interview. Don't be afraid to talk about culture. Don't be afraid to talk about the times in the past when they've had a conflict with fellow employees because those could bubble back up in your environment and come back to haunt you. Jamie Swaim: Absolutely. Jason Heflin: And it's better for them too. They don't need to be in a place that's not good for them. Molley Ricketts: They human behind the paper. So what do you think real accountability looks like in your organization at CrowdSouth? Jason Heflin: Ownership of your area of expertise. That's really what it is. And we did talk again in a recent episode about this, but letting them own it. Allowing them as an entrepreneur to own their area, getting in and being helpful by guiding the work and steering the work and kind and productive corrections are probably welcomed and should be welcomed, but not hovering over people. So I think them owning their area and then the entrepreneur allowing them to own their area. Jamie Swaim: As an entrepreneur, you have become no stranger to mitigating and navigating risks and learning how to make decisions that are right for you and your company. So I have a couple of questions as it relates to these things. What is a decision that you made that felt uncomfortable but was necessary? Jason Heflin: I'll tie it back to a previous answer a couple of questions ago. Letting people go that are not a good cultural fit. It's hard to do. Maybe they have all the talent, maybe have more than the talent, and you can see them fitting in a role somewhere else or even fitting in a role in your company, but just culturally they do not fit. And your team will let you know. Molley Ricketts: Pretty quick. Jason Heflin: Yep. Molley Ricketts: I agree with you on that. Jason Heflin: But it's still really hard. They're a good person. You're like, gosh, they could do so much. Jamie Swaim: Especially if you're doing any of the tips that we talk about around leadership and getting to know people and you learn their family, the impact of a job loss, those things start to hit really hard. Jason Heflin: Yeah. Oh yeah. Jamie Swaim: But your company's better for it. Jason Heflin: A hundred percent. Jamie Swaim: All right. I'm curious of the risk reward methodology you have in your own head. How do you measure and evaluate risk versus opportunity? Jason Heflin: I struggle with it personally. I like to keep the gas pedal down all the time. So I'm very comfortable with risk and I will go a little too far with it. Molley Ricketts: Do you have an example? Jason Heflin: Oh gosh. Do I have examples? Yeah. I mean, it's good for a business to be able to niche into things. These are the things we're good at. But then sometimes an opportunity will come up to take on a new thing and start to think we can do that. We'd be great at that. But it's a big risk to try something. You're going to probably fail a few times. And especially if it's a new client or someone you're interacting with as an entrepreneur, you could really flub it up. Think in terms of the big picture, go back to the plan for the year or the three-year plan or whatever it is, and say, does this really fit into what we're trying to do and be okay not taking this work or this big chunk of money because it's this shiny object or this brand that you wanted to work with. Or, Ooh, that would be great in our portfolio to say, I worked with this Fortune 100 company. Just be careful, evaluate it. Really sit back before you just take it. Jamie Swaim: And I don't know that our listeners know this about you, and so hopefully I'm not going too far, but blink twice if I say something you don't want me to say, okay, that's my safe word. But prior to CrowdSouth and building this marketing conglomerate that you guys have gone and built. Jason Heflin: Conglomerate, I like that. Jamie Swaim: That sounds big. Jason Heflin: Sure. Jamie Swaim: But prior to that, you were not new to the entrepreneur journey. I mean, you started companies and if you were to go through them, they don't all have something in common. Jason Heflin: Yeah. Jamie Swaim: You were in various industries and approaching it from different ways, but using key things that led to CrowdSouth. Do you want to talk about that at all? Because I think when people call you, they might be thinking about you through your marketing lens, but I used to refer to you as the person with the Midas touch. Everything you touch seemed to turn to gold. Jason Heflin: Maybe Copper. Jamie Swaim: Copper. The copper touch. Jason Heflin: Yeah, the copper touch. All Jamie Swaim: Right. Jason Heflin: Yeah. So a good example is I started a business once and it was fully because it was a good idea, but I wasn't super, super interested in it. So that kind of bit me. Later I started an online, an e-commerce business. And of all things, we were selling diaper bags. Jamie Swaim: Before you even had a child. Jason Heflin: Oh yeah, I had no interest. Jamie Swaim: You even know any kids? Jason Heflin: Yeah. What's a kid? I don't know. What's a diaper? Jamie Swaim: Why do you need a whole bag? Jason Heflin: Yeah, why do you a whole bag for these things? But it was a vacuum in the market, and my partner at the time and I went into it and it did really well. It just took off. And suddenly we were selling diaper bags and I turned a whole bedroom in my house into a warehouse. We had boxes stacked to the ceiling, and my wife and I were working on weekends shipping these things out and taking them to UPS, and it was exciting until it wasn't. And so we ended up selling that business to a company called Hayneedle, which owned like 50 different e-commerce businesses. It was just better. They had all the things they needed to really take it and run with it. And I could go do a different idea. So I think my unique ability as an entrepreneur is knowing when to leave, knowing when to get out of the way. Jamie Swaim: But you’ve also been a travel blogger. You owned a microbrewery slash restaurant, and now are in the marketing business. None of those things have automatic ties to each other. Definitely using your marketing expertise to do that. Jason Heflin: And real estate business and bourbon and all kinds of stuff. Jamie Swaim: I don’t remember the bourbon. Jason Heflin: Most of them are opportunities. They're like, I see an opportunity and so I can't stop myself sometimes. So I do think it's important because entrepreneurs have that same gene where they see an opportunity whether it's a good fit or not, and they just chase it. And so be cautious of that. Make sure you don't have to be something you're just in love with, but at least have some sort of passion for it and know where it's going to go. Don't just start it because it's a good idea and then not know what you're going to do with it later. Jamie Swaim: Yeah. Jason Heflin: Have an exit plan or have a plan where you're going to step to the side and let somebody else take this thing over somebody that's more better suited, like, Hayneedle was. Molley Ricketts: Yeah. So Jason, when you think about your life as an entrepreneur and knowing that you've been with CrowdSouth for, what is it now 12, 13 years? Jason Heflin: Yep. Wow. Molley Ricketts: What does entrepreneurship cost you? Jason Heflin: Yeah, so I think it's cost me time. Time and money you exchange. So for many years, the brewery you mentioned, I owned the brewery at the same time, I own CrowdSouth. And I would go in the morning and I would work all day at CrowdSouth and I would drive immediately over to the brewery and I would work till one in the morning. And I did that for two and a half years. Jamie Swaim: Which means the MVP is also Jason's wife. Jason Heflin: Shout out. And during that time, had a baby. Molley Ricketts: Oh my gosh. Jason Heflin: And so it was just rough. And I realized I was exchanging too much the money for the time or the growth for the time, because it wasn't a lot of money then. It was just, okay, we're just growing this thing. So yeah, time. So that's really more what I'm trying to get back to focusing on. I'm going to start exchanging... /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40803710

Rapid Therapy Round: Leadership, Culture, and Workplace Truths Leaders Need to Hear 03/30/2026

Rapid Therapy Round: Leadership, Culture, and Workplace Truths Leaders Need to Hear File 34: In this episode of Workforce Therapy Files, Jamie Swaim, Molley Ricketts, and Jason Heflin take a rapid-fire approach to leadership and workplace culture, tackling common myths, hiring mistakes, and behaviors that quietly damage teams. The conversation highlights the importance of intentional leadership, emotional intelligence, and clear communication in building strong workplace cultures. From employer branding and onboarding gaps to AI in recruiting and CEO-level concerns, this episode delivers practical, real-world insights for leaders navigating today’s evolving workplace environment. Topics Workforce Myths That Hold Organizations Back Leadership Behaviors That Quietly Destroy Culture Hiring Mistakes and Candidate Experience Gaps AI in the Workplace: Opportunity vs. Risk What’s Keeping CEOs Up at Night? What Should Be Keeping Leaders Up at Night? Discussion Highlights Molley Ricketts: And welcome back to Workforce Therapy Files. Today, we’ve got a treat for you. We’re calling this the rapid therapy round. Jamie, Jason, are you guys in? Jason Heflin: I’m in. Jamie Swaim: It’s been a while since we didn’t have a guest. Molley Ricketts: It has been. Jamie Swaim: I’m excited to spend some quality time with you guys. Molley Ricketts: We are guests with each other today. Jamie Swaim: That’s right. I’m pretty excited. Jason Heflin: Yeah, we’ll get to know each other a little better. Molley Ricketts: Okay, so there’s seven questions. Rapid fire. Jason, one workforce myth you want to kill. Workforce Myths That Hold Organizations Back Jason Heflin: Employer branding doesn’t need attention. Companies spend time branding to customers but not enough to employees. Jamie Swaim: Mine is that leaders will lead. That is a myth. Jason Heflin: It takes time and effort to become a good leader. Molley Ricketts: Mine is HR being responsible for turnover. Leaders own that. Leadership Behaviors That Quietly Destroy Culture Jason Heflin: One leadership behavior that quietly destroys culture? Jamie Swaim: Being outcomes-focused above everything else. Molley Ricketts: Sarcasm can damage culture. Jason Heflin: Not letting go and micromanaging. Hiring Mistakes and Candidate Experience Gaps Jamie Swaim: One hiring mistake you see every week? Molley Ricketts: Silence after offer acceptance until day one. Jamie Swaim: That gap is a missed opportunity. Jason Heflin: Employer branding plays into that. Jamie Swaim: Hiring too quickly without development support. AI in the Workplace: Opportunity vs. Risk Molley Ricketts: A trend you’re bullish on? Jason Heflin: Using AI as a starting point, not as a full solution or to replace people. Jamie Swaim: Organizations need AI policies. But my trend is radical candor. Molley Ricketts: AI recruiting needs human judgment. What’s Keeping CEOs Up at Night Jamie Swaim: Talent availability is a concern. Jason Heflin: Market instability. Molley Ricketts: Service levels and accountability. What Should Be Keeping Leaders Up at Night Jamie Swaim: What should be keeping leaders up at night? Molley Ricketts: Company culture should keep leaders up at night. Jamie Swaim: External stress impacts employees. Jason Heflin: Leaders must prepare for what’s next. Conclusion Molley Ricketts: Well, I think this was great. Jason Heflin: Rapid this time. Jamie Swaim: It was definitely a therapy round. Jason Heflin: If you have opinions, let us know. That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40671055

Interview with Carol Shulte - 2025 KYSHRM 03/20/2026

Interview with Carol Shulte - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jamie and Molley were joined by Carol Schulte, Keynote Speaker and Founder of The Brāve Initiative. Dr. Brad Shuck also sat in for this interview. Carol shared her mission of empowering individuals to "get their brave on" by embracing their most authentic and vulnerable selves. She challenges HR professionals to create safe spaces where employees can bring their entire identity to their work, asserting that true connection requires being "real" rather than leading from a title. Carol’s own "brave" journey includes a series of extraordinary life experiences, such as living in an ashram in India, volunteering in Thai orphanages, and apple picking while living in a van in New Zealand. These experiences inspired her to help others "live big" and focus on a "brave list" of challenges rather than a traditional bucket list. Regarding modern leadership, Carol believes the "command and control" style is obsolete and must be replaced by a mind shift toward courage and bold decision-making. She advocates for the platinum rule, which encourages leaders to "do unto others as they want you to do to them". This approach requires leaders to know their team members on a deeper, individual level to understand their unique motivations and needs. Carol emphasizes that today’s workforce desires "raw humans" as leaders who are comfortable admitting they do not have all the answers. By being vulnerable and sharing their own stories, leaders invite their teams to do the same, fostering a more collaborative culture. To conclude her interview, she left a powerful question for the next participant: "What would you do if you were even braver?". To learn more, visit: · Website: Carol and Brad, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40561900

Interview with Corina West of Grace Health – 2025 KYSHRM 03/16/2026

Interview with Corina West of Grace Health – 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jason and Jamie were joined by Corina West, an HR Assistant for Grace Health in Corbin, Kentucky. Corina shared her insights on working for a comprehensive healthcare organization that provides family medicine, dentistry, and behavioral health services. Despite only being in her role for a little over a year, she is part of a small three-person team responsible for managing a large workforce of 465 employees. Corina now leads the one-day orientation for all new hires, where she coordinates speakers to cover topics like HIPAA and risk compliance while ensuring new employees understand the "expectancy" of company policies. She noted that their unique leave structure—accruing 6.15 hours of PTO every two weeks instead of having paid holidays—is a key policy she has mastered and often uses to help applicants determine if the role is a good fit. Corina spoke very highly of her Director, Kim Bingham, whose open-door policy and willingness to handle any task herself have made Corina's transition into HR seamless. While she currently manages the tasks that "everyone else hasn't already had their hands in," she is eager to grow within the department and take on higher-level responsibilities. She finds the work intimidating but deeply rewarding and was excited to be attending her second KYSHRM conference. To keep the conversation moving, she left this thoughtful question for the next participant: "What was the best decision that you've made in your current role and what was the outcome of it?" To learn more, visit: · Website: Corina, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40500365

Interview with Sharlis Montgomery of Hogan Lovells - 2025 KYSHRM 03/11/2026

Interview with Sharlis Montgomery of Hogan Lovells - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jason was joined by Sharlis Montgomery, the Learning and Development Manager at the global law firm Hogan Lovells. Sharlis shared how she supports over 2,500 non-lawyer staff members across the globe. With eight years at the firm, Sharlis focuses on upskilling "business teams" in areas like leadership and interpersonal skills through a structured competency framework. She is passionate about making training fun and innovative, ensuring every employee leaves her facilitation sessions with something valuable. One of her favorite aspects of the role is championing major investments in her team's growth, such as providing access to certifications from prestigious institutions like Harvard and Yale. When asked about retaining talent, Sharlis stressed the importance of truly listening to staff through post-surveys and "real, raw" focus groups to understand their development needs. She noted that many companies actually offer great benefits, but employees often leave simply because those opportunities weren't marketed internally well enough. Recognizing she is an expert in learning, not marketing, she advocates for cross-departmental collaboration to ensure staff are fully aware of the resources available to them. Sharlis believes that engaging directly with departments helps her identify and expand the training options that contribute most to long-term retention. She wrapped up the session by emphasizing that HR and marketing must work together to effectively share value with the organization. To challenge the next guest, Sharlis left the question: "If there was one thing that they could change about their role, what would that be?" To learn more, visit: · Website: Sharlis, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40401255

Interview with Boutaïna Ettaki from Seven Counties Services - 2025 KYSHRM 03/11/2026

Interview with Boutaïna Ettaki from Seven Counties Services - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jamie and Molley were joined by Boutaïna Ettaki, a Talent Acquisition Specialist at Seven Counties Services. She shared her enthusiasm for working in the nonprofit sector, where she finds fulfillment in supporting her community and underserved populations. Drawing on her professional background in sales, she views recruiting as a process of "shopping for people" by identifying specific skills to fill a hiring manager's unique needs. When it comes to attracting a younger workforce, Boutaïna emphasized that Gen Z looks for relatable content, such as real employee testimonials and videos, to get a true sense of a company's culture. She warned that this generation will "snoop" through an organization's website and social media, making it essential for companies to remain relevant or be left behind. Boutaïna also highlighted that these candidates heavily rely on reviews from sites like Glassdoor and Indeed, often scrolling through comment sections before deciding to apply. To improve retention, she suggested that leaders should communicate directly with team members to discover what they need to stay, rather than starting the expensive hiring process over again. She noted that losing a "best friend at work" creates a trickling effect on morale and can lead outsiders to assume a workplace is toxic. Boutaïna believes it is often more cost-effective to offer a small pay increase to a current employee than to spend thousands searching for a replacement. Finally, she encouraged employers to ask the right questions to understand the root causes of turnover within their organizations. To wrap things up, she left this vital question for the next guest: "What will you do to retain talent within your organization?" To learn more, visit: · Website: Ettaki, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40398350

Interview with Cooper Tyra from Houchins Insurance Group – 2025 KYSHRM 02/28/2026

Interview with Cooper Tyra from Houchins Insurance Group – 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Cooper Tyra, an Account Executive at Houchins Insurance Group, sat down with Jason Heflin and Molley Ricketts to explain how his firm serves as the "risk subsidiary" for a massive employee-owned conglomerate. Based in their Louisville satellite office, Cooper works as a single point of contact for private equity firms and manufacturing companies, handling both property and casualty insurance and employee benefits. He highlighted that Houchins stands out because it is an ESOP, part of an umbrella of 25 operating companies that employ over 20,000 people across the region. Although he started his career in project management and finance, Cooper found his stride in insurance after grad school because he enjoys the hands-on, consultative nature of building relationships. He shared that he loves making a tangible impact on employees' lives by improving their healthcare options and overall well-being. When it comes to engaging with company leadership, Cooper believes the best strategy is to lead with "the numbers". He explained that while HR teams often manage the plan structures, executives usually want to cut through organizational complexity to see the long-term story told through spreadsheets. This "straight to the point" approach ensures leaders understand the funding strategies that drive their business forward without getting bogged down in unnecessary details. Cooper finds that daily problem-solving and navigating the constant changes in the insurance market are right in his "wheelhouse". To wrap up his time at the conference, he left this forward-looking question for the next guest: "Heading into next year, what do you think is going to be the biggest impact on the younger workforce and being able to attract and retain them with so much changing regarding flexible work schedules?" To learn more, visit: · Website: Cooper, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40264925

Interview with Jessica Vogt - 2025 KYSHRM 02/20/2026

Interview with Jessica Vogt - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jessica Vogt, a Corporate Recruiter and culture specialist for Louisville-based Aegis Sortation, sat down with Jamie Swaim to discuss how her company is modernizing the freight and parcel industry through automation. Aegis works with major distribution centers like UPS, FedEx, and Amazon, bringing innovative technology to outdated conveyor sorting systems to make logistics more seamless. In addition to recruiting for cross-functional roles in engineering and manufacturing, Jessica is currently focused on building Employee Resource Groups and a new internship program to connect with local Kentucky colleges. She shared a key philosophy from her senior leadership: the importance of pairing high accountability with high flexibility. As a working mother with two young children, Jessica values that her company allows personal experiences and professional responsibilities to coexist without "fearful judgment". She believes that for a company to retain employees today, it must recognize that times have changed and prioritize balancing work with lifestyle needs. This culture of transparency is reinforced by the company's COO, who chooses to sit in the "bullpen" with the rest of the staff rather than in a private office. Though Aegis is only about eight years old, Jessica is proud that they are already taking the necessary initiatives to be an employer of choice where people want to stay. She concluded by noting that while the interview was a bit nerve-wracking, she enjoyed the opportunity to share how Aegis is striving to create "raving fans" through its workplace culture. To learn more, visit: · Website: Jessica, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40175595

Interview with Don Woolridge and Paul Bolton from the Leadership Louisville Center - 2025 KYSHR 02/16/2026

Interview with Don Woolridge and Paul Bolton from the Leadership Louisville Center - 2025 KYSHR The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jamie Swaim and Molley Rickets sat down with Donald Woolridge, Sr., and Paul Bolton from the Leadership Louisville Center to discuss their training and development arm, Leading Better, which takes leadership insights traditionally reserved for small cohorts and brings them to the "many". Donald shared how leadership is fundamentally universal and timeless, centered on interpersonal connectivity, empathy, and influence regardless of how global or virtual a team becomes. Paul added that leaders must bridge the gap between remote and in-person workers through transparency and dedicated one-on-one time, noting that this investment is far more efficient than the cost of replacing a person. The group also stressed the importance of updating "dusty" job descriptions to ensure companies are hiring for the roles they actually need today. Paul compared a leader's role to that of a coach, whose job is simply to bring out the greatness that is already inside an individual. To improve employees' quality of life, Donald suggested that leaders must "pour into" their people and create environments where they have "skin in the game" and can speak freely. The group also discussed the concept that organizations aren't just hiring a headcount; they are hiring and coaching families, meaning every workplace decision has a ripple effect on an employee’s life at home. This holistic view of the employee can drive a powerful cultural movement and significantly boost retention. To learn more, visit: · Website: Donald and Paul, thanks for speaking with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40125965

The Power of Emotional Intelligence in Leadership – Interview with Eric Williamson 02/11/2026

The Power of Emotional Intelligence in Leadership – Interview with Eric Williamson File 33: In this episode of the Workforce Therapy Files, Jamie and Molley sit down with Eric Williamson to explore leadership and workplace culture, focusing on how intentional leadership decisions shape team performance, communication, and long-term organizational success. They dive into his recent book, “How to Work with Jerks.” The conversation centers on emotional intelligence, workplace accountability, and the responsibility leaders carry in building environments where teams can grow and perform at a high level. Leadership Begins with Intentionality The discussion opens with a focus on leadership responsibility. Strong workplace culture does not happen by accident. It is shaped by daily decisions, communication style, and how leaders respond under pressure. Eric emphasizes that leadership requires awareness, not just of strategy and operations, but of how behaviors influence team morale and performance. Intentional leadership sets the tone. When leaders operate with clarity and consistency, teams gain stability. When leaders react emotionally or inconsistently, uncertainty spreads. The conversation reinforces that culture flows from the top. Emotional Intelligence in Workplace Leadership A central theme in the episode is emotional intelligence. Leadership is not simply about directing tasks. It’s about understanding people. Eric discusses how self-awareness and the ability to manage reactions play a critical role in workplace culture. Leaders who regulate their emotions create space for productive dialogue. Instead of escalating tension during difficult moments, emotionally intelligent leaders pause, listen, and respond thoughtfully. This approach strengthens trust and reduces unnecessary workplace conflict. The group explores how emotional intelligence directly impacts retention, morale, and overall organizational performance. Navigating Conflict and Difficult Conversations Workplace challenges are inevitable. The episode highlights how leaders must approach conflict not as something to avoid, but as an opportunity to clarify expectations and reinforce standards. Eric explains that difficult conversations, when handled with clarity and fairness, can strengthen team alignment. Avoiding conflict often creates greater problems later. Addressing issues directly, while maintaining professionalism and respect, reinforces accountability and strengthens workplace culture. The conversation underscores that leadership maturity is often revealed in how leaders handle uncomfortable situations. Communication as the Foundation of Culture Communication emerges as another core leadership principle. Clear expectations, consistent feedback, and honest dialogue are foundational to strong workplace culture. The discussion emphasizes that high-performing teams understand what is expected of them. Leaders who communicate vision, priorities, and performance standards consistently create alignment. Miscommunication, on the other hand, breeds frustration and disengagement. Eric reinforces that communication is not a one-time announcement. It’s an ongoing leadership discipline. Building Sustainable Organizational Growth The episode closes with a broader reflection on sustainable growth. Strong workplace culture supports long-term success. Leaders who invest in people, prioritize clarity, and operate with integrity build organizations that can adapt and thrive. The conversation reminds listeners that leadership is not about titles. Leadership is about influence. Workplace culture is shaped daily through actions, reactions, and expectations. Leaders who take ownership of that responsibility create environments where both people and performance can flourish. Interested in Contacting Eric Williamson to Learn More? Website: Email: Eric’s Book: That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. ALSO MENTIONED IN THIS INTERVIEW Molley’s New Book: Dr. Debra Clary’s Book: Listen to Our Episode with Dr. Debra Clary: Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/40076005

Interview with Rawleigh Richardson - 2025 KYSHRM 02/02/2026

Interview with Rawleigh Richardson - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jason Heflin, CEO of CrowdSouth interviewed Rawleigh Richardson, a member of the Kentucky SHRM State Council and the founder of HumanKind Consulting. Rawleigh shared how he is working to put the "human" back into human resources. Since launching his consultancy in 2023, he’s been busy helping clients navigate reductions in force by providing career coaching and optimizing their LinkedIn profiles and resumes. He also assists organizations with complex legal hurdles, specifically helping them understand wage and hour issues, such as exempt versus non-exempt contract status. Drawing on his experience as an employee relations investigator, Rawleigh emphasizes the importance of being a "risk avoider" by balancing the protection of the organization with a fair approach to individuals involved in conflicts. When asked for culture-building tips, Rawleigh recommended utilizing AI tools like Co-pilot to help apply a company’s mission and vision to internal communication like newsletters. He strongly advocates for stay interviews, suggesting that leaders simply ask their team members what keeps them happy and why they choose to stay. Rawleigh believes that while technology is a great support, true engagement comes from direct communication and creating interest-based groups to keep people connected. He also encourages conference attendees to network and reach out to the state council board, including Chair Patricia William Key, for support. Finally, Rawleigh left this simple yet important question for the next participant: "Are you a dual member of your local chapter and the National SHRM, and what resources have you used from the National chapter?" To learn more, visit: · Website: Rawleigh Richardson, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39968990

Interview with Erin Mitchell - 2025 KYSHRM 01/12/2026

Interview with Erin Mitchell - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Molley Ricketts sat down with Erin Mitchell, the Chief of Staff at Barnes Young Wealth Advisors. They discuss managing culture during a major merger that will grow Barnes Young from 19 to 55 people. With a background in political science, Erin discovered that her empathetic yet direct personality was a perfect fit for HR, where she prioritizes being able to step into other people's shoes. She is particularly proud of the culture she has helped cultivate and aims to maintain that sense of community across their expanding office locations. Erin believes the key to overcoming HR stigmas is building deep trust, acting as a transparent "middle woman" between the leadership team and the rest of the staff. She noted that while building trust is a foundation for success, it can be a double-edged sword when team members rely on her so much that she must guide them on how to handle situations themselves. If budget were no object, Erin would provide leadership training to every single employee, regardless of whether they are in a formal management role. She believes emotional intelligence, feedback skills, and career pathing are essential for everyone to lead within their own departments. Erin left this question for the next guest: "What are some tips of the trade or success stories for enhancing culture and relationships among multiple office locations?". To learn more, visit: · Website: Erin Mitchell, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39700375

Interview with Hannah Carretti - 2025 KYSHRM 01/06/2026

Interview with Hannah Carretti - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Hannah Carretti, HR Director for Campari America, sat down with Jamie Swaim and Jason Heflin, at the 2025 KYSHRM conference to share her experiences as a "true generalist at heart" working in the distilling industry. Hannah’s favorite area of HR is training and employee development, which she finds both humbling and an honor to lead. Currently, she is spearheading a frontline leadership training program, viewing these leaders as the essential support system for her manufacturing team. Safety is also a top priority at her site, leading them to host an annual safety day where they stop production completely for hands-on training, games, and team bonding. When asked what she looks for in a new hire, Hannah immediately pointed to empathy, explaining that while technical skills can be learned by anyone, empathy and understanding are much harder to teach. She believes these soft skills are vital for effective leadership across all levels of an organization. Hannah also enjoyed the conference keynote by , finding his session on "how not to be a jerk" both lively and engaging. To keep the conversation going, she left this imaginative question for the next participant: "If you could train on any topic with no budget and no restriction on what the topic is, what would you want to train your team on?". To learn more, visit: · Website: Hannah Carretti, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39632975

How Leaders Embrace Change - Interview with Maggie Harlow 12/30/2025

How Leaders Embrace Change - Interview with Maggie Harlow File 32: In today’s file, the team interviews Maggie Harlow, Co-Founder of Signarama Downtown. They discuss leadership lessons, evolving workforce expectations, the importance of communication and accountability, and the challenges of being a female CEO. Maggie shares her entrepreneurial journey, insights on personal growth, and the significance of vision boarding. The conversation emphasizes the need for clarity in expectations, respect among team members, and the courage to embrace challenges as opportunities for growth. Leadership and Emotional Intelligence in the Workplace As the leadership discussion unfolds, Maggie shares one of the most important lessons she has learned: the ability to stay centered while managing people and emotions at work. Emotional situations are inevitable in leadership roles. Effective leaders must learn how to remain calm without becoming disconnected. Rather than reacting emotionally, Maggie emphasizes observing situations carefully and responding with clarity and intention. Practical Leadership Strategies for Difficult Workplace Conversations The conversation shifts to practical strategies Maggie uses when navigating emotionally charged workplace conversations. She explains how listening closely to the language people use to describe their feelings allows leaders to acknowledge emotions without escalating conflict. By reflecting those feelings back, leaders help others feel heard, which often reduces defensiveness and tension. Maggie also highlights the importance of validation. She notes how acknowledging emotions does not mean agreeing with them. Instead, validation creates a foundation for productive dialogue and problem-solving. Curiosity as a Core Leadership Skill Curiosity is a central theme in today’s discussion. Maggie explains how by staying curious leaders remain open rather than reactive, especially during moments of disagreement. Asking thoughtful follow-up questions and resisting the urge to correct or dismiss emotions helps leaders better understand people and situations. Curiosity can strengthen leadership effectiveness across teams, client relationships, and organizational culture. Learning Through Workplace Conflict and Growth Rather than avoiding conflict, Maggie reframes it as an opportunity for learning and leadership growth. She explains that moments of tension often reveal important insights about individuals, systems, and leadership blind spots. Leaders who approach conflict with openness and emotional awareness are better positioned to learn, adapt, and lead effectively. This approach is relevant to personal and professional development. Growth often comes from navigating discomfort thoughtfully. The Broader Impact of Leadership on Teams and Culture As the conversation begins to wrap-up, the group reflects on how leadership behavior influences teams and workplace culture. Maggie discusses how modeling calm, intentional responses sets expectations for how others handle challenges. Leaders who demonstrate emotional intelligence and self-regulation often create healthier, more resilient workplaces. The episode reinforces the mission of Workforce Therapy Files: helping leaders navigate real-world workplace challenges with clarity, empathy, and confidence. Interested in Contacting Maggie Harlow to Learn More? Website: Phone: (502) 585-4099 That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39568745

Interview with Aaron Heflin - 2025 KYSHRM 12/22/2025

Interview with Aaron Heflin - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jason Heflin caught up with Aaron Heflin, the HR Director for RCSS Holdings, Inc., which manages an employee-owned group of road construction companies including Reynolds Sealing and Striping. With over 300 active employees across Kentucky and neighboring states, Aaron shared that his crews particularly love their recurring project striping the roads of Smoky Mountain National Park because of the beautiful scenery and wildlife. This year marks a major milestone as they celebrate 10 years of being employee-owned, a model that has seen share values skyrocket by over 600%. Aaron emphasized that the ESOP structure is a massive culture driver, fostering collaboration and efficiency because the workers in the field are the ones truly driving the business's success. It serves as an incredible recruiting and retention tool, often getting new hires eager to start the very next day once they see the actual wealth progression of current employees. When asked about company culture, Aaron defined it as a "common sense of ownership" and the collaboration required to complete dangerous road projects as a unified team. He stressed that because road construction is a "team game," their success relies on everyone holding down their own fort while working together. To wrap things up, Aaron left this insightful question for the next participant: "On your next hire, what are the main skills or attributes that you're looking for?". To learn more, visit: · Website: Aaron Heflin, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39510440

Interview with Khari Bryant - 2025 KYSHRM 12/22/2025

Interview with Khari Bryant - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jamie Swaim is joined by Khari Bryant, an Account Executive at Bchex (formerly the Background Investigation Bureau) to explain how his company simplifies the "choose your own adventure" world of background screenings. Bchex rebranded to a shorter, more modern name while continuing to offer comprehensive services like criminal checks, drug screens, and MVRs at all jurisdictional levels. A major benefit of their partnership is FCRA compliance, as Bchex handles the dispute and adverse action letters that often lead to "terrible lawsuits" for unassisted businesses. Khari reminded listeners that the Fair Credit Reporting Act applies to any company running background checks, not just those in the credit or retail sectors. When it comes to recognition, Khari’s team uses a creative "token system" where managers reward specific positive behaviors with tokens that employees can use for monthly drawings. He is also promoting a new podcast, "The Bad Hire," which features a $10,000 giveaway for the best hiring story submission. Khari hopes the podcast will provide a platform for people to share their hiring experiences, both good and bad. He wrapped up his interview by leaving a fundamental question for the next participant: "What do you think company culture is?" To learn more, visit: · Website: Khari Bryant, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39509915

Interview with Kelly Hunt - 2025 KYSHRM 12/18/2025

Interview with Kelly Hunt - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jamie and Molley sat down to interview Kelly Hunt HR Manager for Perry Distributors, in Hazard, Kentucky. Kelly brings 20 years of combined leadership and HR experience to the discussion. She explained how her primary motivation for working in human resources is people. People build the business, and once the right individuals are hired, it becomes the employer's job to build them up. They discussed how the HR role is challenging, sometimes requiring professionals to act as a "babysitter" when employees bring personal issues, like stomach pain or a toothache, to the office. Kelly commented that HR work must always be proactive, not reactive, meaning professionals need to be ready for anything that comes their way. When discussing employee appreciation, Kelly emphasized that you have to know your people, because appreciation looks different for each individual. It could be as simple as always giving someone a high five, or it could mean providing a confidential space where they can vent, or even "kick, scream, and cry" if needed. You take a template approach to everyone. Finally, Kelly offered the next guest the question: "Why did you choose to be in HR or did it choose you?". To learn more, visit: · Website: Kelly Hunt, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39458785

Interview with Eric Williamson - 2025 KYSHRM 12/06/2025

Interview with Eric Williamson - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. The team interviews Eric Williamson, one of the keynote speakers, and author of and co-author of . Eric joined the KYSHRM Conference to help HR leaders mitigate workplace friction and help organizations prevent people from becoming a jerk in the first place. He stressed that while people often point fingers at others, we must be self-reflective because everyone has been the jerk at some point. Eric recommends practicing "the art of recognition," by centering on emotional self-awareness and tuning into what your body and the situation are signaling. A tip is to leave the ego at the door and constantly solicit feedback from employees and colleagues, doing a "pulse check" early and often, rather than waiting for formal reviews. Leaders should consider approaching difficult relationships with curiosity, asking how things could be done differently, instead of judgment. Eric’s mission is deeply personal, stemming from his experience as an "expert jerk who turned jerk expert" after both working for a boss who embarrassed him and realizing his own arrogance toward his mentor nearly cost him his job. Talented people quit because they couldn't figure out how to manage difficult relationships, emphasizing the need to look internally for better outcomes. The ultimate tool for navigating conflict, according to Eric, is vulnerability. Removing the guard that makes you appear inadequate gives others confidence and shows them it is okay to not have all the answers. Keeping with the theme of difficult relationship management, Eric left the following question for the next guest: "What's one small action you'll take to build a relationship with someone you don't like?" To learn more, visit: · Website: Eric Williamson, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39307840

Interview with Charles Duke – 2025 KYSHRM 11/24/2025

Interview with Charles Duke – 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. The team interviews Charles Duke, the HR Administrator for the Kentucky Historical Society, based in Lexington. He describes himself as an "inspirational leadership type of HR professional." The KHS was coping with a unique situation: its 60 employees had operated for 7 years without an HR person, relying on the Personnel Cabinet for onboarding and discipline. Charles came to the interview prepared. He used the museum's website to create a portfolio of ideas for each department, ultimately turning the interview into a conversation built on competence. Charles also shares his extensive background, which included 30 years in the Air Force. When asked what he looks for in a candidate, he immediately answered, "authenticity," explaining that he needs to see the same energy displayed during the interview applied to the rest of the job. Charles believes the HR professional's job is to put the "human" back in HR by handling employee relations and clarifying thought processes. That essential human element and relationship-building can't be done by AI or other staff, like a curator. Finally, Charles leaves the following question for the next guest: What do you think qualifies you to be a human resources professional? To learn more, visit: · Website: Charles Duke, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/39150915

Interview with Jack Crowdis – 2025 KYSHRM 11/07/2025

Interview with Jack Crowdis – 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jason Heflin, CEO of CrowdSouth interviews Jack Crowdis, Business Development Manager for PayFWDs, based in Louisville. Jack explains that while their payroll platform is similar to the big national providers, they bring a highly consultative approach. PayFWDs builds systems customized specifically around people, aiming to get the setup right. That may be a different experience from what the client has seen elsewhere. Each client gets a dedicated customer service representatives. PayFWDs serves clients across 48 states. Jack comments the greatest hurdle they encounter is convincing prospective clients that switching payroll providers won't be a daunting process. PayFWDs tackles this by assuming the burden of the transfer, pulling necessary data for the client. They perform a full tax audit upfront and guarantee in their contract to pay any notice resulting from issues they should have caught. Jason asks Jack to provide a question for the next interview. Jack asks, “What is the number one thing that drives revenue? Is it customer service, pricing, etc.?” To learn more, visit: · Website: Jack Crowdis, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/38953355

Interview with Jeremy Jacobs - 2025 KYSHRM Conference 11/03/2025

Interview with Jeremy Jacobs - 2025 KYSHRM Conference The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. Jason Heflin, CEO of CrowdSouth interviews Jeremy Jacobs, Founder of UnDesked. They discussed critical challenges in workforce development, especially with regard to frontline employees. Jeremy explained that while traditional office workers are equipped with resources like laptops and Microsoft Teams, 80% of the global population in the workforce, or 2.7 billion people, are "undesked" and lack access to a dedicated computer. This gap creates significant problems for organizations related to onboarding, training, daily job assignments, and providing access to necessary resources. UnDesked offers a solution as the only frontline productivity platform, essentially functioning as "Frontline 365" for these deskless workers. In terms of scalability, while most clients are 50 people or larger, UnDesked serves massive clients like Berry Global, which operates 600 facilities with over 100,000 employees. The platform offers a significant financial value, costing only $5 per employee per month for the first year, which is even cheaper than securing email from Microsoft. Unlike complicated ERP systems that require lengthy implementation, UnDesked is designed for quick adoption, allowing clients to be up and running and communicating with workers within a week. Jacobs revealed that the worst professional advice he received, often from trusted individuals, was the generalized suggestion to "just go to college and get a good job," advice that would have contradicted his nature as an entrepreneur. Finally, Jeremy provides a question for the next podcast guest, “What specific "puzzle" or non-typical issue keeps them up at night?” He clarifies that the answer should be more interesting than general work stress. To learn more, visit: · Website: Jeremy Jacobs, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/38892895

Interview with Rusty Steele - 2025 KYSHRM Conference 10/27/2025

Interview with Rusty Steele - 2025 KYSHRM Conference The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. At the 2025 KYSHRM Conference, Rusty Steele, HR Director for Oxmoor Auto Group, joins Jason Heflin of CrowdSouth to discuss how effective communication and employee engagement drive long-term success in a fast-paced industry. Rusty explains how Oxmoor focuses on creating a positive culture across multiple dealerships, by focusing on transparency, teamwork, and genuine care for employees. He shares how leadership’s commitment to listening and adapting has helped them attract and retain top talent in a competitive market. Jason and Rusty discuss how consistency, recognition, and accountability shape Oxmoor’s workplace values. This is an example of how a large organization can stay people-focused, while continuing to grow. As the conversation concludes, Brian provides a question for the next guest at the conference: "Why do you wake up in the morning? Why are you doing this?". He explains that while everyone works for money, life is "too short to do something that you hate". Brian comments that if work is not someone's passion, they should find their passion, because it would be much better to get paid for doing something you love. To learn more, visit: · Website: Rusty Steele, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/38793340

Interview with Brian Ingle - 2025 KYSHRM 10/20/2025

Interview with Brian Ingle - 2025 KYSHRM The Workforce Therapy Files team attended the 2025 Kentucky SHRM Conference, in Louisville. We took the opportunity to interview over 20 professionals who stopped by our booth. In this segment, Jason interviews Brian Ingle. He’s the Executive Director of Planning and Management for the State Auditor’s Office. Brian adds that his passion lies in leadership, training new leaders, and helping supervisors transition from being button pushers to being true leaders of people. Brian discusses how the transition from a specialized role to a supervisory position is a big shift. To help new supervisors succeed and prevent them from failing during this transition, he created an acronym designed for the first 90 days in the role: RELAX. The RELAX Acronym for New Supervisors: 1. R (Role): New supervisors must understand that their role is going to change. It is no longer about pushing buttons; instead, leaders must add value to people and help them to push the buttons better. 2. E (Engagement): This component emphasizes relationship building, as leadership is relationship. Engagement means getting to know employees on an individual level, including personal details such as the names of their spouse, how many children they have, and their important days. Brian notes that if leaders invest in their people, the people will invest in them. 3. L (Link up): In the first 90 days, leaders need to conduct many meetings, not because people love meetings, but to foster the relationship piece. During these meetings, expectations must be clearly articulated: the leader's expectations of themselves, their expectations of the employee, and the employee's expectations of the leader and of themselves. Brian points out that people often have expectations—even if they claim not to—which surface when they go home and say, "it's not what I expected". Therefore, the link up process requires putting those expectations into words. 4. A (A): Ingle was unable to recall the "A" component during the recording, though the host suggested they might discuss it if Brian were to return as a full episode guest. 5. X (X factor): The "X factor" is the unique quality the individual brings to the role, the reason they were hired. Brian stresses that new leaders should avoid trying to fill the shoes of their predecessor or trying to be like everyone else. He encourages tapping into this unique factor because the organization may have hired the person specifically because they are different. He quotes Andy Stanley: "Your marginally improved weaknesses will never be as great as your fully exploited strengths." Leaders should play to their strengths and not be afraid to be unique, as they might be in that position precisely to say that thing, to think that thought, to have that idea. Jason agreed that the X factor is essential because everybody brings something different to the table and can improve things in their own way. Question for the Next Guest: As the conversation concludes, Brian provides a question for the next guest at the conference: "Why do you wake up in the morning? Why are you doing this?". He explains that while everyone works for money, life is "too short to do something that you hate". Brian suggests that if work is not someone's passion, they should find their passion, noting that it would be much better to get paid for doing what you love. To learn more, visit: · Website: Brian Ingle, thanks for stopping by to speak with us! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/38646160

Interview with Kevin Finley - 2025 KYSHRM 10/13/2025

Interview with Nelson Caudill - 2025 KYSHRM 10/06/2025

Interview with Brad Shuck, PhD – 2025 KYSHRM 09/22/2025

How Curious Is Your Organization? - An Interview with Deb Clary 07/16/2025

How Curious Is Your Organization? - An Interview with Deb Clary File 30: In today’s file, the team interviews Dr. Debra Clary her pursuit of the power of curiosity. Deb has had a fascinating career path. She’s worked in executive roles at Frito-Lay, Coca-Cola, Papa John’s, Brown-Forman and Humana. Now, she’s helping organizations to better understand how curiosity impacts its performance, all because of an intriguing question. Meet Deb Clary Deb was the first person in her family to graduate from college. She completed her bachelor’s degree at Michigan State University and earned her doctorate in leadership and organizational development, from George Washington University. Her starting role at Frito-Lay was different from what she’d imagined it’d be, but it yielded extremely valuable insights for her career. She spent roughly a decade there, progressing through the ranks. She joined Coca-Cola in various sales, marketing and global roles. Her global client was Papa John’s. They eventually invited her to join their organization, as the VP of Marketing and that brought her to Louisville. Deb shares she was actually fired from Papa John’s, a year into the role. She admits having come from traditional, corporate environments, the Papa John’s culture was much less-structured and entrepreneurial. Deb assumed a VP of Strategy role in Brown-Forman’s wine division, where she stayed for the next 3 years. Learning that there are significant differences in culture and how those differences manifest, especially in terms of human behavior, was a key milestone. It provided insights into how organizations could create leaders that could have greater impact and contribution, in a way that was warm and welcoming. As Deb was completing her dissertation for her doctorate, she encountered someone from Humana. It lead to a role in a leadership institute Humana was developing. She eventually took on the challenge of leading the institute, which cultivated Humana’s top 1,000 leaders. Deb remained with Human for 18 years. Deb recounts she was sitting next to her CEO, who asked her, “Do you think curiosity can be learned, or is it innate?” It was an intriguing question. After doing a deep dive into the research around that topic, she mentioned to the CEO that curiosity could indeed be learned. This question ignited a spark in Debra. Surprisingly, there wasn’t a lot of data as it related to the question in a corporate environment. So, she commissioned a team of researchers to do primary research on the topic. The data proved it has immense power to transform. Debra recognized a calling. She subsequently left Humana and is pushing this new revelation out into the world. A Spark Leads to a Spotlight A group of accountability partners surprised Deb by arranging an opportunity for all of them to meet in Louisville. It turns out the group had taken a one-woman show concept and actually pitched it to a producer. The producer agreed to take her on, in New York. It was time for Deb to start writing. She had one year to right the play, but absolutely no experience in having done it before. About six months after the start of her writing, someone connected her with a New York playwright who would be willing to provide feedback. In his words, “This sucks.” Deb had written a keynote, not a play suitable for New York. With this realization, Deb found someone to adapt it to stage (a phrase she’d never heard before). She, later, found a director, Jessica De La Rosa. She agreed to work on the first act, to see if the two of them could work together. They turned out to be a great match. Deb’s play is called, “.” It’s about being a woman in corporate America, during the 80s and 90s. It’s written as a comedy. Interestingly, as a young girl, Deb’s dream was to be a standup comic. She did standup comedy on the weekends, in Detroit, during the Frito-Lay days. The Curiosity Assessment This is a tool Deb developed to help companies benefit from the power of curiosity. The research discussed earlier in the conversation highlighted a few important findings: Curiosity can be learned. Curiosity is contagious. Curiosity can be measured. They developed a validated assessment to measure curiosity, which lasts 6-8 minutes. It focuses on four important factors related to one’s curiosity curve, including exploration, openness to new ideas, focused engagement, and inspirational creativity. The research data indicates that when you have a culture of curiosity, which is most-often driven by the leader, three significant things will occur: You drive retention. It promotes job satisfaction. It fosters engagement. Deb will assess each member of the organization. It will yield an organizational score for each of the four factors, a total score, a team score, and an individual score. It helps individuals to see how they fit into their team and the organization, at large. The findings can highlight drivers of friction, especially when a direct report is extremely curious, but is working with a manager or leader who is less so. Luckily, curiosity can be learned and developed. This realization can lead to positive shifts for leaders. In a recent workshop for the National Presidents Association, a group of women CEOs, the participants took the assessment. Interestingly, the conversation regarding the results focused on their spouses and children. It highlighted areas a friction and why it may be occurring at home. The point is that when you are aware of your curiosity level, real change can happen. How Does Deb Clary Define Curiosity? Deb explains that curiosity is being generally interested in others and in other situations. Consider how many questions a child asks on a daily basis. Juxtapose that with the number asked by the typical adult. Over time, we have a tendence to become incurious. We’ve all heard the saying, “Curiosity killed the cat.” Deb included it her forthcoming book, which should be release this fall. Actually, there’s more to the sentence. The full version is, “Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.” (William Shakespeare, 1589) Interested in Contacting Debra Clary to Learn More? Website: LinkedIn: Before We Leave We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming , August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/37425910

Emily Sayers on KCTCS Programs for Employers 07/02/2025

Emily Sayers on KCTCS Programs for Employers File 29: In today’s file, the team discusses talent pipelines, workforce development and the real drivers behind economic growth in Kentucky. We welcome Emily Sayers, Kentucky’s Executive Director of Workforce Solutions at the Kentucky Community and Technical College System. Meet Emily Sayers Emily serves as the Executive Director in the Cabinet for Workforce and Economic Development, at KCTCS. She may have the longest title for anyone we’ve interviewed on the podcast. There are 16 workforce solutions divisions across Kentucky. This aligns with the 16 colleges within KCTCS. The focus is on business engagement, as well as the upskilling and reskilling of Kentucky’s workforce. Emily originally worked at the Gateway Community and Technical College in northern Kentucky. She viewed her role there as being a community resource for employers, beyond workforce. She often connected employers with any number of others who could play a part in helping them to address specific issues they were facing. Emily and here team could design and deliver customized training to assist employers. It could range from typical skills, such as MIG welding, to more adapted solutions including the welding, but in combination with a range of other company-specific needs, including managerial training. The training could be delivered onsite or at a campus and during times that worked best for the employer, including 3rd shift time slots. It would be a completely customized experienced. The goal for KCTCS is to move at the speed of business. They want to be the incubator for new programming, technologies and more. Timeline for New Orientation Programs and Other Programs Jamie asks Emily about the timeline involved in delivering programs for businesses. Orientation upskilling is a common type of program KCTCS develops for employers, including manufacturing sites, ranging from highly technical processes to basic information regarding two-step verification. If the curriculum already exists, KCTCS could deliver the new program in a week, assuming a subject matter expert can be identified and engaged. This comes back to the focus on moving at the speed of business. Other types of programs that are purely conceptual, at the outset, would require more time. It usually comes down to how prepared the employer is and what their timeline requirements are. Emily mentions there’s no real standard. This manifests in KCTCS working in the gray, as the development of a new program evolves. Customized Programs for the Community Jason comments how KCTCS can customize programs based on needs of a community. For instance, training heavy equipment operators. Once a successful program is developed, it may be possible for KCTCS to leverage parts or all of the training for other situations/locations. Are KCTCS Resources Available to Companies outside of Kentucky? Jason asks Emily if employers in other states can leverage the capabilities of KCTCS? While other states may offer similar services, actually, KCTCS does a lot of work in Tennessee, Indiana, Ohio, Virginia and other border states. Those non-Kentucky states may not have access to state incentives, but there are still opportunities for agile training and program development. KCTCS may be able to partner with other non-profits to assist in opportunities with those employers. How Does KCTCS Approach the Sustainability of the Programs It Develops? It depends on the situation. Some programs may move to the academic-side of Kentucky Community and Technical College System. They would be supported through that area. However, on the workforce development-side of the System, if there is an ongoing need by the employer, KCTCS can arrange to maintain that program. If the needs have moved beyond the initial program, the original program may sunset as resources are focused on developing more up-to-date programs. Jason notes how the community college system can be much more flexible and adaptive, when compared to traditional 4-year universities. Partnerships Across Kentucky Emily describes some of the partnerships they maintain across the state. One is the with the (SWATT). It’s comprised of many different entities. This include (but are not limited to) KCTCS, Department for Education and Labor, Cabinet for Economic Development, the Kentucky Chamber, and others. The goal of the partnership is ease of use for the employer. It brings all of Kentucky’s incentives and resources for employers in a clear format. It helps to streamline the conversation between employers and the available providers, while reducing confusion and redundancy. SWATT is still in its early days. There’s an identified effort to educate employers on how to access these program resources. How Do Employers Pay for KCTCS Services? Emily highlights . This is an allocation of funds specifically for the 16 colleges in the system. It is used to offset the cost to employers related to upskilling and reskilling the incumbent workforce. It can cover up to 75% of the cost for an employer to have its customized training program. Partner organizations and other groups may be able to be identified to cover the remaining 25% of the cost. A 10% administration fee is also charged, for KCTCS to maintain the program. These funding mechanisms can ensure employers can engage in workforce development activities, including customize programs, rather than pre-packaged programs that are offered by other vendors. How Many Employees Must Be Kentucky-Based for the Employer to Access the Incentives? Surprisingly, there is no minimum requirement. If the business is operating in Kentucky, it can have access to the programs, including the KCTCS-TRAINS funding. Emily explains there are other parameters including training a certain number of people and spending a certain amount of money. Nevertheless, this is an extremely valuable resource for employers. One of the objectives is to make this easy for employers to understand and participate. Partnering with KCTCS can make the development of the new program and achieving the results much less complicated that one would imagine. Combine that with the financial incentives and it’s clear most of the traditional roadblocks have been eliminated. Are there Commonly Overlooked Services Available from KCTCS? Jamie asks if there are services Emily wishes more employers would ask about or take advantage of? The number one service is TRAINS funding. The next, even for out-of-state employers is the customized training available from KCTCS, whether the training takes place at one of their locations or at the employer’s location. The agile and flexible ability of the services is a tremendous benefit. KCTCS will come to you, which is extremely advantageous for employers in remote or rural locations. The is another important service. Emily explains this is a partnership between KCTCS colleges and Kentucky businesses. Participating businesses offer flexible scheduling, tuition assistance, and a commitment to meet or exceed a living wage. Can KCTCS Support Remote or Hybrid-Work Arrangements? Yes. By leveraging the Owensboro Community and Technical College infrastructure, KCTCS offer . This is an LMS for employers involving customized training to support remote or hybrid staff needs. Virtual reality learning is another capability offered by KCTCS. Interested in Contacting Emily Sayers to Learn More? Website: Phone: (877) 528-2748 Before We Leave We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming , August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/37256080

STAT Training for Active Aggressor or Active Shooter Situations 06/18/2025

STAT Training for Active Aggressor or Active Shooter Situations File 28: In today’s file, the team addresses a serious topic. Active aggressor or active shooter situations are becoming more common that we’d like to admit. There are steps you can take to prepare yourself and your organization for this type emergency. We welcome the Eric Culver and Dale Massey, founders of STAT, a company focused on providing active aggressor training. They’ll share advice and insights on preparing for this dangerous situation. Editor’s Note: This file may not be suitable for all audiences, given the subject matter that will be discussed. Meet Eric and Dale Eric started with the Jefferson County Police in 2001. His father is a retired police officer. After 7 years, he joined the FBI. Eric later returned to the police department, as a member of the SWAT team. The mission of the SWAT team is to save lives. He remained part of SWAT for 16 years and eventually retired after serving 21 years with the police force. Dale joined the police department in 2000. Dale eventually joined SWAT as the Assistant Commander. He eventually retired from the SWAT, as the Team Commander in 2021. He credits Eric’s effort in getting the Louisville’s SWAT team established as one of about 50 full-time teams in the US. Eric came up with a concept to train people, once he and Dale retired. That was the genesis of their company, , based out of Louisville, Kentucky. What Inspired Eric and Dale to Create a Program for Active Aggressor Training? Eric seriously enjoyed being part of SWAT, a small-unit team that worked to hone the skill sets of individual members to function as an effective team. When bad things happened, he wanted to be the one who got the call. Eric recalls joining the police department 1 week before 9/11. SWAT spent most of its time working around active-shooter situations. Over time, the term evolved into active aggressor or armed assailant. They developed a response to the city, modeled off of what they learned from a program called, . It’s a collaboration between police, fire and EMS developed to help them more effectively respond to scenes. There have been notable situations in our country’s past, during which this type of integration and execution were not thoroughly planned and the results were tragic. Think back to , , and others. Dale and Eric were called to the 2018 , active-shooter incident. Eric was one of the first officers to enter the building. Eric comments that while he and Dale have 20+ years of training for these types of situations, the regular individual who may be caught in a situation does not. They decided to build a program to provide these services to individuals and organizations. Their approach is to empower and educate people in a positive way. Why Do People Tend to Avoid the Topic? Dale explains that people often don’t want to think about what could happen. “That’ll never happen to me” is an approach people want to believe. However, just in Louisville, we’ve experienced the Standard Gravure, J-Town Kroger and the Old National Bank shootings. These events are actually under-reported. It takes effort to prepare, plan and train for these potential situations. Most people simple prefer to take the easy approach, which is to ignore the possibility. STAT focuses on empowering people; not scaring them. In the event something does happen, you’ll have options, because you’ve taken steps to prepare yourself and your organization. It’s Similar to an Emergency Action Plan (EAP) Many people take time to prepare for a fire or tornado. Preparing for an active aggressor situation is a similar methodology. STAT Offers Services to Businesses STAT provides a range of . A comprehensive, threat assessment is the first step. STAT will do an onsite assessment of your business environment, security procedures, camera surveillance, etc. It will be simple, but impactful and most importantly, actionable. STAT works closely with Homeland Security. They also do a lot of work with non-profit organizations. Many are able to get grant money to offset some or all of the cost. In addition to site assessments, they offer classroom training, active aggressor training, de-escalation training, medical-based training, live scenarios, custom-content for specific needs, and much more. Jaime has experienced training sessions provided by STAT. There were are few ah-ha moments. One fact she realized is that your typical office first-aid kit is not prepared for this type of emergency. Jamie has been first-aid certified and has completed OSHA-30 training, in addition to other workplace safety training sessions. None of them prepared her for how to pack a wound or apply a tourniquet. STAT taught her that valuable skill. Jamie also appreciates the tips and advice STAT offered regarding the supplies and equipment that should be part of the first-aid kits. She strongly recommends people consider taking these courses, based on her personal experience. Dale points out that the body has 6 important arteries. If one of them were to get severed, a person only has 3 minutes before they bleed out. Knowing how to properly apply a tourniquet and having several of them on hand, can save a life. If the tourniquet is not applied within 1 minute of sustaining the injury, that person will most-likely pass out. This is a time-sensitive event. It’s a skill that’s not hard to learn. But it requires training and preparation. Building Redundancy in the EAP What if your organization has designated a specific individual to be responsible for the medical kits and other procedures, but that person is absent or incapacitated on the day of the event? It’s important to build redundancy into your Emergency Action Plan. This relates to both personnel and equipment, such as medical kits. You have to plan for contingencies. Dale recommends placing the medial kits with or near the AEDs you already have onsite. Is Run, Hide, Fight Still an Appropriate Protocol? Eric explains that this depends on the situation. He begins with some simple definitions. If 1-2 people are shot or attacked at a workplace, it’s considered workplace violence. If 3 or fewer are impacted, it’s considered active shooter/active aggressor. If 4 or more are injured, it’s considered to be a mass casualty situation. The federal government developed the Run, Hide, Fight paradigm in the early 2000s. It was the first methodology for addressing an active aggressor situation. It was a system that employed a linear approach to dealing with the situation. Unfortunately, most people don’t have a mindset that follows this methodology. The STAT Mindset – Escape, Evade, Engage STAT offers training that focuses not on your skillset, but rather, on your mindset. The human mind learns in patterns of 3. Additionally, the letter “E” is the most commonly used letter. Based on these factors, STAT developed training around Escape, Evade, Engage. It’s designed to work everywhere, not just at the office. Escape, Evade, Engage is a decision-making process that gives you options. The goal is to get you thinking, not simply reacting. Eric uses the example of the Old National Bank shooting. Some people decided to run, but once they got out into the street, they turned around to watch. Unfortunately, they were still getting shot at, because they stopped. Instead, they should have continued to run and extend the distance between themselves and the active threat. Is STAT Training Applicable for Schools and Educators? Jason has school-aged children and he thinks about these kinds of topics when he drops off his kids at school, especially at the start of the school year. He asks if STAT provides training for schools, teachers and staff? STAT does a lot of training with schools. Both Dale and Eric are still sworn police officers, in retirement. For instance, they are trying to make Taylorsville and Spencer County, a test-case for the country. There are actually no regulations pertaining to this training. Schools are required to have resource officers (SROs), but there’s no specific funding. The STAT team is also developing content for middle school and high school students. Many schools are hesitant to engage STAT-based services. JCPS, in Louisville, just implemented its own police force. Are they properly equipped and trained for active aggressor situations? A single SRO isn’t the answer for a typical school. A school should have layers of security. STAT uses the CPTED system. The acronym stands for Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design. It helps schools to incorporate security measures into the esthetic environment the school wants to maintain. It creates reactionary-gap time, allowing you to make critical decisions in a time of crisis. Dale stresses the importance of building a safety-culture inside your organization. You can have the tools in place, but if the personnel aren’t taking it seriously, your system is primed to fail. People need to buy into the system so they actively check things and look for breakdowns in the system, on a regular basis. This can be as simple as ensuring exterior doors are locked to prevent an unauthorized individual from gaining access. Eric mentions the . It was an epic failure, across the board. It highlights the fact that the first responder coming to may not be properly prepared to engage. The average police officer in the US only receives about 4 hours of active shooter response training. In the case of a business, if you have multiple facilities that have been trained in some type of EAP, but the point person is transferred to a different facility, are the EAPs the same? Would there instead be a level of confusion that could be avoided with a standard plan? STAT is helping to provide that type of system. Jamie comments that some states are now requiring this type of training for organizations with a certain number of people. California is one such state requiring armed aggressor training. This should be much more than a surface-level, check the box, approach. Help Is on the Way, Eventually It’s important to understand police are going to focus on going after the aggressor/shooter when they first arrive. Their focus will not be on taking care of you or rendering medical aid. This is a critical reason you need to develop the right mindset. STAT is a qualified resource and is ready to help you and your organization. Interestingly, the average time it takes for the police to arrive on site is 15 minutes. A lot can happen in 15 minutes. We all remember doing fire drills and tornado drills in school. Have you ever practiced for an active aggressor situation? Probably not. Students may be familiar with lock-down drills. Unfortunately, many adults don’t even want to think about doing this type of drill in the workplace. Why not implement this type of drill, at least once a year to help familiarize your team with the proper mindset? STAT has developed a video program, as a cost-effective option. They’ve also developed webinars and have the capability to custom-design a training program for your specific situation. You Won’t Rise to the Occasion; You’ll Fall to Your Level of Training There’s a mistaken belief that you, or someone around you, will suddenly know how to respond to an active aggressor situation (or some other crisis). Unfortunately, that’s usually a myth. The reality is most people will fall to their level of training on how to deal with the situation. Most often, it doesn’t go the way you’d hoped. This is about developing a mindset and practicing what to do, should the situation arise at your workplace, church, school, etc. Dale points out that communication is critical. When an employee is laid-off or terminated, how does the organization communicate the situation? What would happen if that hasn’t been effectively communicated and the individual shows up the next day intending to do harm? How easy would it be for that person to gain access and cause a tragic result? We may need to rethink how we address certain issues. You don’t need to get into the specifics of why the person is being terminated, but they need to understand the individual should not be let back into the facility. But We’ve Always Done It this Way Molley asks “How could HR or other leaders reduce the risk of an active aggressor situation involving a termination?” Eric suggests not bringing the individual into your office for that conversation. You’ve allowed what could become a volatile situation to occur in a compromising location. You may have positioned the conversation to occur in a way that the impacted individual is situated between you and the exit. You might be trapped in the room. Instead, consider doing an offsite termination. If that’s not practicable, consider doing it in the lobby or parking lot, thus preventing immediate access to the facility. Consider this the first layer. The second layer of protection is to have a plan for identifying your exit routes, enabling you to Escape, Evade, Engage, if the situation warrants it. This is definitely a paradigm-shift for HR professionals. At the same time, Dale recommends that the termination is never handled in a one-on-one basis. Bring someone with you. Police refer to this a “contact and cover.” This is about your personal safety and that of others. Jamie’s Advice to HR Professionals Over the years, Jamie has added a number of considerations and steps to her procedures. Make sure you have someone outside of the room, whom you can contact if the situation escalates. Do you have a panic button that goes to internal security and to local authorities? Have you reached out to local authorities to familiarize them with the layout of your facility and to establish a list of people who can be contacted, when necessary? If a termination is planned, consider having an off-duty police officer in the parking lot, lobby or in the space to provide some additional security. Be careful about the procedure allowing people to obtain their personal effects. If they have items in their locker, office or car, consider other ways to transfer those items. Use a courier to deliver those items, or consider recovering those items for the individual. It may be a better alternative to allowing the person to go back to their office. While you can’t anticipate every issue, it’s important that you’ve taken the time to make some level of preparation, rather than trying to do so in the moment. Are You a Second-Chance Employer? This isn’t about being judgy or making assumptions about people. Rather, it’s about being proactive in your mindset. It’s a challenge to find the balance. Dale recommends employers define what types of crimes would they allow and which will be disallowed, in terms of the second-chance candidate’s past. Establish a standard. You’ll get a sense of the person’s commitment to moving forward during the interview, but you need to have boundaries. Eric relates this back to his career as a police officer. While he always tried to give the person the benefit of the doubt during an engagement, he always had a plan of action. If the situation was going bad, he already knew how he would exit, escape, evade and engage. He recommends the moment you detect a sign that something is wrong, resist the temptation to second-guess yourself. STAT would rather you make a bad decision, than no decision. You can fix a bad decision. If you make no decision, someone else will exert a decision on you. Parting Thoughts from Eric and Dale Dale points out there’s a difference between compliance-based and regulatory-based training, verses what STAT offers. If you want impactful training that can save lives, consider programs such as what STAT has developed. Training budgets are extremely limited. The training STAT provides is portable. It’ll go with you, wherever you go. STAT has actually had survivors validate the scenarios they introduce during training sessions. They’ve developed scenarios that combine perspectives from both a first responder’s prospective and a survivor’s perspective. It’s reality based. Eric points out that their training can be done in phases or customized to your budget. It’s an investment in your people. You’re providing your people a skillset they can share with their families and friends. The team at STAT does this because they want people to know they can do something and not just be a victim. Jason points out that safety is a fantastic gift. Jamie mentions that after attending STAT training, she’s gone home and discussed it with her family, because is more than work training; it’s life training for our communities and the communities we’re serving. Interested in Contacting STAT for Your Organization? Website: Phone: (502) 576-7856 Before We Leave We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming , August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/37059670

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