Workforce Therapy Files

This podcast is designed for business leaders and human resource professionals who are challenged with expanding their workforce. Workforce Therapy Files, an Employer Solutions Podcast, is hosted by 3 separate business owners who operate in the staffing and human resources space. They'll provide perspectives, tips and advice (along with a little humor) to help you prepare for and manage your workforce challenges. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: • Jamie Swaim, SPHR – www.ParcelKnows.com • Molley Ricketts – www.IncipioWorks.com • Jason Heflin – www.CrowdSouth.com We hope you find it insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening!

Benefits of Vision Boards and Life Boards 06/03/2025

Benefits of Vision Boards and Life Boards File 27: In today’s file, the team explores the benefits of vision boards and life boards. They each talk about how they approach these tools in their own lives. This conversation springs from a new experience Jamie is working through that took an unexpected turn, at the outset. The team welcomes their podcast producer, Jim Ray, to participate with them in the discussion. The Executive Coaching Experience Jamie shares that she’s recently begun working with an executive coach at . One way the coach has challenged her is to be more intentional about herself. That came as a bit of a surprise. It wasn’t exactly what Jamie was anticipating, although she knows it’s been an area she’s often overlooked, while helping others. Jamie asks Molley whether she uses a vision board and to explain her overall life-planning process. When Molley’s kids were young, the family would create vision boards during the Thanksgiving break. It was interesting to see how those young brains worked. They’d cutout pictures and color the poster board based on where they saw themselves in a year. As a result, it became apparent that they needed to do something more. While Molley sees the value in using a vision board, life-planning is bigger than that. Assuming the average lifespan is between 70 and 80 years old, she suggests making a grid comprised of 80 squares. Put an X in each of the boxes that represents as year, up to your current age. The visual is typically a grid with many fewer boxes remaining, that you might have initially thought. Is it worth being as stressed out as we probably are? Where do we want to be in 5-10 years? What will retirement look like? How do we begin taking steps to make the life we want to live in retirement? Jamie admits when she considers what the future is going to look like, she has trouble bringing that vision into focus. Jason suggests that may be one of the reasons she elected to begin working with a coach. Jamie comments she feels she does a nice job of talking about intentionality in the professional setting, but when that conversation is focused inward, she struggles. Producer Jim relates to Jamie. As a sales professional and sales manager, he knows how to craft a territory strategy for revenue growth, it becomes much more difficult on the personal level. You realize how quickly time has passed. The thing we used to value may no longer hold as much value in our lives. He’s never built a vision board, so he’s looking forward to this discussion. Creating a Vision Board and a Life Board Molley explains how someone might view a vision board, until they finally accomplish one of those items on the board. Then, the process, focus and meaning begins to fall into place. Jason admits it may feel a little “woo-woo.” But, by placing an item on your vision board, it holds you accountable. In fact, he’s been doing vision boards for roughly 20 years. Jason divides his board into a work column and a personal column. There might be 4-10 items he lists that he really wants to accomplish in the upcoming year. The important aspect is that it’s measurable. It may be a dollar amount, a specific number of days, or some other trackable objective. This way, he “knows what done looks like.” Interestingly, he also resists removing items from his board, unless there’s a major intervening factor. He wants this board to stare him in the face. While his primary board is a 1-year timeframe. He also creates a 3-year, 5-year and 10-year version, enabling him to focus on long-term aspirations. At age 50, Jason comments that understanding the limited time he has left may sound a bit morbid. Molley recasts that perspective as, “How you’re going to feel your joy.” These are an outline of the steps he’ll take to achieve that joy. Jamie asks how Jason and Molley got started with their vision boards. Jason had just left a corporate job. He wanted to take a year off. The board was a collection of activities he wanted to experiment with, such as consulting, becoming fractional senior leader for a small company, etc. Within 4 weeks of leaving his corporate job, he became a fractional marketing VP and had a consulting client. He was astonished by how quickly these items became realities. He knew it was time to take another crack at his vision board. Jason explains that once he added something to the board, he’d take time to work backwards to determine what would have to happen in order for that vision to become manifest. For most motivated professionals, having an item on a vision board can be a significant source of focus and determination. Jamie came up through her education learning about servant-leadership. There was a focus on helping others to live the lives they wanted to live. When she took her first step at creating a vision board, it was very emotional for her. It was strange to begin thinking about what she wanted, as opposed to having to think about what everybody else wanted. Jason points out that he has to remind himself to determine whether a vision is focusing on something he wants, or rather something he thinks he should do because others in his circle are doing it. How many times are our wants/desires constructed by other people? He recommends you find out what’s right for you. While you may not have a defined concept of the end state, you can at least begin to clarify what the next several steps will look like. Molley shares that her vision boarding experience began when she got laid off. She’d spent the previous 11 years sacrificing for her marriage and kids. He role involved significant travel. She admits she felt emotionally tied to the job. It defined who she was. When she got laid off, she was devastated. She took 2 weeks to sulk and drink too much wine. After that, she committed to never letting someone else control her mind the way that job had done. After some time, she admitted to herself that she didn’t want to work as hard has she’d been doing. She began to understand the fallacy of the need to keep up with the Jones. After all, they weren’t paying her mortgage. As she began looking at the items on her vision board, she began thinking about the things she’d need to do to empower herself to get there. The hard part was balancing that with her husband and kids. Looking back from 2008 onward, it’s been a gamechanger. There’s been a realization that the people who matter the most are her husband and two kids; everyone else is a bonus. From a practical standpoint, Molley admits she hopes to be a caretaker in the lives of her grandchildren. So, what does she need to do to ensure that happens? If she wants to take her family on 1 trip a year, what needs to happen to make that possible? How does she begin to create those experiences? Molley suggests you create a life board and the big items used to populate your vision boards actually come from the life board. Striking Balance when You’re Pulled in Different Directions Jamie discusses how whenever a successful woman is presenting or speaking to a group, the question always comes up, “How do you make time to balance all of it?” She believes it’s also true for men who are building a career. How do we resist setting our hair on fire, just to keep everyone else warm? We need to establish meaningful boundaries. It takes practice. Jason adds that it may entail sacrifice. You may lose a few friends along the path. It could be clients or other opportunities that aren’t fully aligned with your vision board or life board. Admittedly, it could hurt for a while. Don’t let fear make those decisions for you. People plan exits all the time. There may be people on your team who are already in the process of doing so. Jason reminds us it’s important to create a life board or vision board that’s specifically for ourselves, not for someone else. Maybe you’re already in the right place and only need to change a few things about the place you’re in to make it perfect. The key to understand is that if you don’t take the time to plan for it, it’ll never happen. How Do You Include Your Family in Your Vision Work? Admittedly, may people listening to this right now are not alone on the path. They have a spouse and possibly children. For Molley, it was an intentional conversation about a plan. When she was thinking about launching Incipio, she needed to ensure her husband was aligned with the goal and its purpose. It’s a negotiation, as is involved in any relationship with a partner. It will take both of you to get there. If both are working toward “the big idea,” you’ll have a much greater chance of achieving that vision. Jason stresses the importance of communication, even beyond the one you’ll have with your spouse/partner. If your vision focuses on a specific role, you’ll need to have a conversation with your manager so he/she can help you to plan for the steps that will eventually lead to your promotion into that role. At the same time, if it doesn’t appear that will be possible, similar roles exist in other organizations. You may need to consider steps to pivot toward that transition. Jamie Recommends a Book Earlier in the discussion, Jamie share how her new coach recommended she focus on becoming more intentional about herself. As part of that growth, her coach suggested she begin reading , by Michael Hyatt and Daniel Harkavy. The subtitle is: A Proven Plan to Stop Drifting and Get the Life You Want. At the time of this recording, she’s just begun reading the book. She’s realizing how decisions she made and paths she pursued may not have necessarily been part of a conscious plan, but they’ve allowed her to arrive at the place in which she now finds herself. Was it “the drift”? She’s admittedly been a high-achiever, but events in life have just happened. Jamie is very interested in how Living Forward will impact her perspective and the resulting path. At the same time, she encourages listeners to comment on social media regarding questions, comments and thoughts about either the topic or the book, itself. What Motivated Jamie to Engage a Coach? Jamie admits it wasn’t completely intentional. It was a service related to her current role. She frequently recommends coaching to people. However, prior to this, her only other time working with an executive coach was during her first, leadership role (years ago). The environment, issues and perspectives were much different back then, than what she’s leading through today. Currently, she’s in her first real executive role, while owning and running her own business. She realizes the importance of balancing those two opportunities, while not losing sight of the other important parts of her life. There are times during which, as she puts it, “It feels out of whack.” Jamie’s realizing how this book is going to have a positive impact. She was surprised when the coach suggested starting the process with this particular book. However, there’s clarity in understanding without having a plan for your life (and career), you’re pouring from an empty cup. If this is your reality, the people in your life and around you won’t be able to get the best version of you. A point made early in the book is that achieving perfect balance may not be the objective. There’s not enough time to fully balance everything. It’s about figuring out the points of imbalance that match or align with your goals. Molley adds it’s also about not feeling guilty about making that decision when you need to go all in for a specific period of time to make progress toward specific goals; especially when they’re on your vision board or life board. Jason reminds us that the goals we set should be our own. You need to be real with yourself. Sometimes the goal we set don’t necessarily align with other goals we’ve established. It’s okay. Just be mindful of resisting the temptation of letting other people set the goals for us. Molley shares a conversation she had with one of her best friends. That friend reached out to apologize for not being able to be the best of friends, right now. Molley was confused, until her friend explained how busy she was with her kids. That was the reason for the comment. Molley pointed out that it’s simply the season of life that friend is currently experiencing. What’s important is that her friend is being intentional about building her relationships with her children. That will pay important dividends in the future. Embrace it while the season is here. Their friendship will continue to grow and thrive with time. It's important to understand you may need to limit or walk away from friends who aren’t willing to support those items on your vision board, because they don’t necessarily agree with them. Then there are those who seem completely adrift. While they can still be your friends, resist the urge to go to them for advice about specific issues. They probably won’t understand it, anyway. The risk is the older we get, the more difficult it becomes to make new friends. It might be a risk worth taking. We’d like to encourage you to send us your favorite resources, via the or on our social media channels. We might mention them on an upcoming file. Before We Leave We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming , August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/36833870

Mostly Funny HR Stories 05/21/2025

Mostly Funny HR Stories File 26: In today’s file, the team is going to lighten-up the conversation with some funny HR stories they’ve either experienced or heard about. Before we begin, we’d like to encourage you to send us your funny HR stories, via the . We might read them on an upcoming file. Sleeping on the Job Stories Story 1 Molley begins with a personal example from her “first real job.” She wanted to talk with one of the leaders. She knew he was in the office. She knocked on his office door repeatedly. Finally, the door opened. She was shocked. She asked if he had been sleeping at his desk, because there was an imprint of his watch on his forehead! Molley later explains that the guy and his wife had recently had their firstborn, so he may have been justifiably, sleep-deprived. Stories 2, 3 and 4 Jason also has some sleeping stories. Jason worked at a distribution, during a newly-created 2nd shift. There weren’t many trucks coming it on 2nd shift. The supervisors created some busy work for the employees, between trucks. Jason was sweeping a long aisle in the warehouse. Suddenly, he hears, “Hey dude.” It startled him, so he began looking around to see where the voice came from. He looked up to find his co-worker napping on the 3rd level of the rack shelves. Jason climbed up to find and entire sleeping space the guy had created. After assuring his co-worker that they were cool, he climbed back down and just continued sleeping. There was another role in which Jason knew a co-worker in the office was falling asleep at his desk. Jason would ask him what he was doing and the guy’s head would pop-up and the guy mumbled, “Praying.” It happened often enough that Jason had to eventually dismiss the guy. In his final sleeping story, Jason describes a small office he worked in, years ago. They had an admin at the front desk. Early one morning, the boss unlocked the main door and walked in. All the lights were out, so she continued back to her own office. When she came back out, the admin guy was sitting at his desk. The bell on the front door hadn’t chimed, but he claimed he’d been there the whole time. The boss knew she’d just walked past the empty desk. The admin finally relented and admitted that he’d been asleep under the desk (from a hangover). Reasons People Gave for Calling Out of Work Story 5 Jamie was working her first HR-assistant job out of college. One of her responsibilities was to review the call-out line messages. She tells us about 2 interesting excuses. The first was from a woman who was calling on behalf of a guy who worked 3rd shift. He wasn’t going to be able to come in, because she was getting ready to have a baby. Then she let out a giant labor pain scream. Jaime still tries to imagine the conversation that must have taken place between the guy and the woman about calling his employer, while she was having contractions. Fortunately, once the man returned to work, he proudly showed off pictures of his new baby. Work Isn’t the Only Type of Labor that Happens at the Office Story 6 Jamie tells another story about a woman who actually went into labor at work. While the baby came extremely early, it was a very tense experience, that turned out okay. The work environment required a lot of walking. Surprisingly, the walking induced the birth. Jamie remembers sitting on the bathroom floor with the woman. While this isn’t a funny HR story, unexpected things often happen at work. In this case, you might say, “Life Happens.” Drug Test Fail Story 7 Molley was handling mass-recruiting for a large call center. There was a lot of turnover, so it was a constant push to get people scheduled for interviews. She sent an offer to a candidate. Candidates were required to immediately come in for the drug test and fingerprinting. Other employees started approaching the HR office to let them know a woman was in the parking lot offering $100 to anyone who would provide a urine sample she could use for her drug test. They rescinded the offer that day. In Vino Veritas Story 8 Jason recounts a story he heard about a company conference. There was a 20-person hot tub at the venue. Alcohol had been consumed at the event. Someone came up with the idea of playing truth or dare in the hot tub. Well, some stories came out. Needless to say, there were some very awkward looks in the room the following day. Duct Tape Will Fix It Story 9 Jamie remembers a job she had years ago. There was an individual who was constantly in trouble for pushing the line on what was deemed to be appropriate and inappropriate. He enjoyed wearing t-shirts that had questionable statements on them. While some of them were funny, Jamie knew she would lose authority if she allowed herself to actually laugh at some them. To remedy the situation, she’d give the guy duct tape to cover the statements considered dress-code violations. Once in a while, he’d look at her and say, “You kind of want to laugh at this, don’t you?” It only made it more difficult for her to maintain her composure. Her only recourse was to double down on why the statement was inappropriate. No-Call/No-Shows Story 10 While in college, Jason worked in plant that made electrical motors for refrigerators. It was summer time, but a large order needed to be filled for an appliance manufacturer. They worked 80 hours per week, including weekends. The crew was exhausted. Toward the end of the summer, they were begging for a day off. The company refused, because the project was almost finished. In a coup, the crew told the others they were going to the lake the next day and would be considered no-call/no-shows. The next day they showed up expecting to get fired. The boss pulled them aside and they worked through the situation, especially given there was only a week left on the project. Viva la Revolution! More Drug Test Fails Story 11 Jamie remembers someone who submitted a sample for their drug test. Strangely, it was colorless and odorless sample. This creative individual decide they’d have a better chance if they simply submitted tap water as their sample. Once again, the offer was rescinded. Story 12 One time, Molley was told by a candidate they’d at a Snoop Dog concert and everyone around her was smoking weed. That must have been why pot was showing up in her test results. Story 13 Jamie listened as a candidate explained how she’d just broken up with her boyfriend and he must have put cocaine in her drink. Sounds almost plausible, right? Story 14 Molley had a candidate comment that they’d been at a party and everyone ate some brownies. Shockingly, they must have been laced! Story 15 (Okay, We’re not Saying this was a Fail) Molley once worked for a company that was doing random drug tests. She was travelling when she received the call that she’d been selected. Company policy was that you had to take a drug test, at their facility, within 24 hours. She wasn’t schedule to return from her Texas business trip until several days later. They ended up letting her take a test in Texas, but later decided she had to take another one, once she arrived home. Secret Codes and Scenarios Story 16 Jamie pulled this on from Reddit. The person worked in a small IT and web-design company. The team discovered the and everyone started playing it. The competitive group began listing their high scores and initials on the glass door, in the office. When others saw the scores and initials, the group would make up stories about what the “codes” meant. Interestingly, Jamie knows of HR professionals who’ve used the 2048 game references during interviews with candidates. Story 17 Molley was asked if she saw herself as either an apple or an orange, during an interview. She stated she didn’t like either, but did prefer to view herself as a banana. It completely threw the interviewer off her game. Molley knew it would only go downhill from there. Story 18 In college, Molley interviewed for a part-time job in a law office. The male attorney has if she anticipated needing an extended time off, in the near future. She said not, while adding that she had school, but the entire purpose of the question flew completely over her head. He was actually trying to ask about pregnancy. Story 19 Jason asked a job candidate where she saw herself in 5 years. She had the confidence to respond she’d be the president of the company, not realizing that was Jason’s actual role. Remember to submit your funny HR story to the WTF Team. You can DM us on social media or contact us via the website. We’ll keep it anonymous, if we read it during an upcoming file. We hope to hear some good stories! Rest assured, there’s not much we haven’t seen. Before We Leave We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming , August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/36658465

Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 2) 05/09/2025

Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 2) File 25: In today’s file, the team wraps up a 2-part discussion on the job market. In this episode, they’ll focus on “lay-ups”. These are the positive ways an organization can assist exiting employees to land on their feet, after a separation. At the same time, this segment will also help area employers to take advantage of the availability of new candidates becoming available, especially if a large layoff has occurred. Click here to listen , Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 1). In File 11 (), the team discussed the topic of separating with dignity. This might also be a good reference point. There Are Steps that Can Be Taken to Assist Exiting Employees Molley begins by commenting about how once the severance package and other formalities have been handled, there are still additional steps an employer can take to assist exiting employees. This comes back to a them discussed in File 11 about separating with dignity. If the organization knows the separation is going to happen, are there job-placement resources in the community that could assist with re-hiring? Do managers personally know if local businesses that could use good employees? Contact them and invite them to connect with your impacted employees. These types of extra steps can help to ease the transition. Remember, when one door closes, another one eventually opens. In the previous file, File 24, Jamie presented some of the legal requirements a company has, based on the WARN Act, when a layoff is coming. Again, none of the hosts are attorneys, but the information can serve as a guideline for a conversation with your business/corporate attorney. Jamie points out that by helping former employees to land on their feet, there are indirect and direct benefits to the organization, such as lower claims and the avoidance of potential litigation expenses. Not to mention the damage to the company’s reputation as a community/regional employer. Jason discusses a number of actions he’s seen his clients take in these types of situations. He groups them as passive and active steps. An example of a passive action could include writing letters of recommendation for employees. An active action might be contacting local and regional workforce teams and the unemployment office resources. Additionally, if you become aware of a layoff in the area, get your marketing team working on a plan to potentially attract these potential job candidates. Go so far as to engage that company’s HR team to see if you can begin recruiting onsite, before the official layoff date occurs. Consider geo-fencing or geo-targeting the company’s location enabling you to serve online ad notifications to people who show up at that location. Jamie also comments on this aspect. If you are the employer facing layoffs, consider reaching out to other local employers to see if they are looking for good candidates. Your recommendations would be extremely helpful to the HR team, as well as your employees. Jason explains how they helped to identify industry-adjacent employers for a client. They didn’t have the exact same jobs, but many of roles required similar skillsets. Molley describes how affected employees can leverage the skills they’ve developed over the years, yet when recruiters and HR overly-depend on technology to screen applicants, those prospective employees risk being left on the sidelines. We need to help employees to tell their stories differently. Providing a long-term employee resources can be extremely helpful. He/she may need help building a résumé and learning how to apply for jobs. Help them to list their specific skills. It’s also possible to work on improving their social media footprint. Equip that long-term employee with a letter of recommendation, help them to set up an appointment with a staffing specialist, and you might even be able to provide them with information about specific opportunities with other employers. Remember, these are steps to helping with a lay-up, before or after the layoff. Molley suggests contacting the , which is a statewide resource. It’s a valuable resource for employees who are facing a layoff or other separation. Your tax dollars have already been used to fund these resources, so take advantage of them. Placing an Emphasis on Workforce Planning This was mentioned in . Molley provides an example. Organizations over-hire. It’s often because they don’t know how to properly hire. They’re planning for attrition. Instead, if organizations were to create an authentic approach to the hiring process for each position, you’d consider the company’s readiness to hire, the timing for the hire, the reason one or more people need to be hired, etc. This granular approach will help you to know the best time to engage in the hiring process. It can actually lower the overall cost of your workforce development efforts. It’s not simply a cost of doing business. Consider listening to our 3-Part Series on how Recruiting Begins with Retention. . If you are authentic and candid with your workforce about how the company is performing, should a layoff be in the future, employees may be better able to understand the decision is business-related, not personal. Consider the following simple takeaways: - Treat people like adults. - Be transparent. - Partner with your networks. - Build community around we are all better off when we’re all employed. - If you have to layoff, lay them up for their next opportunity. - Remember, anyone whose been with your company for 3-5 years may need some additional help because the process of seeking a new opportunity will be different for them. Each of the steps you can take to help these individuals to move forward will help to alleviate worry, stress, anxiety and the fear of the unknown future. These efforts can also reduce any potential negative reactions the company and its remaining employees might face. Before We Leave We wanted to let you know the WTF Podcast is going to have a booth at the upcoming , August 26-28, at the Central Bank Center in Lexington, KY. Come visit us at Booth 113. Be a guest for one our podcast mini-interviews! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/36512365

Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 1) 04/23/2025

Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 1) File 24: In today’s file, the team begins a 2-part discussion on the job market. In this episode, they’ll focus on layoffs. Several clients have reached out to Jamie and Molley to plan for potential layoffs and the specific steps companies are required to take. In File 11 (), the team discussed the topic of separating with dignity. This might be a good reference point. Legal Considerations Involving a Layoff To begin, it’s important to note none of this should be considered legal advice, as the members of the WTF Podcast team are not lawyers. However, they’ve been involved in these situations and are prepared to share some perspectives and tips. Today’s discussion might provide an outline for a series of questions you might want to review with your business attorney. Information regarding the can be found on the Department of Labor’s website. It’s the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification. This Act ensures advanced notice in cases of qualified plant closings. When are Employers Required to Provide Advance Notice to Employees of a Layoffs or a Plant Closure? Jamie explains that if you are an employer planning a layoff, plant closure or significant reduction in work hours, you are required to do a WARN notice. It must be filed with the unemployment office. The threshold is that you must have over 100 full-time workers, excluding workers who have been there for less than 6-months, or who work less than 20 hours per week. If you’re laying off 50 or more people, at a single site, or if you employ more than 100 workers who work at least a combined 4,000 hours. Please note, there are many other group descriptions that should be reviewed in determining your specific requirements. The benefit to this process is that it can help the various community resources to engage in planning and coordination to assist affected workers in the area. It also provides 60-day notice so that the affected employees can make plans regarding their individual situations. Jamie notes that the time and notice can make a difference for continued employment for those impacted employees. What Can Companies Do to Help Employees Affected by a Layoff? Jason comments that the notification, per the WARN Act, goes to the local career centers and unemployment offices. Once notified, those agencies can provide information on opportunities and programs for up-skilling and training. Some agencies may even come on-site to provide employees with information about job openings and other potential resources, including providing information about how unemployment works. It’s good to utilize these services as early in the process as possible. It’s also the right thing to do for your people. Most of the previous files on this podcast have focused on attracting good people; the right talent for your company. You probably have a large group of people you really hope to retain. You may even be able to come up with solutions that could avoid the need for a layoff. Alternatives to Enacting a Layoff Consider the use of furloughs. If you’re trying to reduced costs, you may have the option of instituting temporary furloughs and avoiding the need to issue a WARN Act notification. The advantage is you might still be able to retain your talent. They should be able to draw unemployment for periods of time. Jamie recalls working with a client who was having a dip in business, but believe it wasn’t a permanent situation. As a company, they decided to implement furloughs to get them through the current period and come out together, on the other side. Everyone, including management took a 2-week, unpaid furlough. In their case, the payroll savings enabled them to survive. Molley comments that communication is key, especially when the company itself is under stress. By being transparent about the situation, it may help to gain important buy-in for an option, such as a furlough, instead of having to layoff a significant number of people. This transparency also helps the company to control the narrative, rather than letting rumors and misinformation to get traction. It’s important to understand that a furlough for a specific period of time is much different from a layoff, which means you’re losing your job. It’s an entirely different situation. Molley points out that some companies might try to use a layoff to mask poor performance. Often, this is due to a lack of good management, in her opinion. If you’re laying off for poor performance, is it possible your managers weren’t given the tools or opportunities to lead? Jamie, agrees that using “layoffs” for poor performance is a misuse of the term. You’re not required to retain a poor performer. You should take the necessary steps to notify someone of their lack of performance and to provide opportunities and time for improvement. This is the best way to get someone to demonstrate improved performance. Nonetheless, some leaders may share responsibility for the underperforming employees. It might be the best thing for the business, but have other alternatives been explored? Why Not Use a Layoff to Purge Your Weakest Performers? In reality, few companies have extremely solid performance data, enabling the organization to definitively identify its weakest performers. Thus, you’re going to create a risk for the business if this is the chosen path. What Are Recommended Criteria for Selecting Which Employees Are to be Laid-Off? Jamie has seen companies use a last-in, first-out criteria. This may be effective if your workforce is unionized. Another approach is to identify critical roles for the future success of the business and to isolate other roles that will be less needed. Molley’s team at Incipio was recently working with a company that had to downsize its workforce. Effective leaders naturally struggle with this communication because they understand the impact these decisions are going to have on the lives of their people. Jamie recalls the first layoff she as involved with. She’d been out of college for about 2 years. She was the person delivering these notifications. Some of the affected employees had been with the company for 20 years or more. The situation caused her to have literal nightmares about what could happen to her, as a result of the communications. Her car was keyed, she was spit-on, her desk was messed up. Interestingly, Jamie observes that no one had prepared her for how to have these conversations. They didn’t help her to prepare for effective communication that would allow the person receiving the bad news to receive it, along with the compassion and empathy that should be part of this type of discussion. While you may be the person communicating the decision, recognize the person receiving the news is experiencing a million emotions, all at once. What if their family has medical conditions? How is this going to affect household finances? The list of life-obligations just starts racing. In this moment, as a leader, if you’re not prepared and able to show care and concern, you’ve missed out on an opportunity. If handled well, that employee may decide to return to the company, once the current situation has improved. Considerations for Remote-Work Companies Informing Employees about a Layoff The team has touched on this topic in previous files. Molley strongly advises that you should have legal participate in these communications, along with your HR staff. There are many variable that can surface. What if the employee were to record the discussion? How do you handle the employee who is attempting to trigger the manager to react to specific questions or accusations? Any number of issues could develop resulting in liability for the company. It’s important to do this before the first conversation is held. Jason recommends engaging Jamie and Molley to help your organization to have a game plan before the situation gets underway. Preparation is vital. Nonetheless, hiring and firing are often the most short-sighted processes. Jamie notes the number of Instagram clips and Tik Toks that are recorded possibly without the companies being aware. A lot of states have varying laws regarding one-party consent, as it relates to recording conversations. These recorded conversations can quickly take on a life of their own. Again, you’ve got to be prepared. Molley and Jamie point out that if a legal situation were to stem from this conversation with an employee, it’s possible that an actual class action lawsuit could develop involving each of the affected employees. Even if the employer wins the case, consider the expense, damaged reputation and other negative outcomes. There is a solid process that can be followed to ensure you effectively communicate the intended message, while avoiding creating scenarios that could open your company to legal and financial exposure. Jamie reminds the audience that the WARN Act requires 60-days’ notice, so this isn’t a process you can implement next week. If your organization’s leadership has an effective business plan and is monitoring key performance indicators, you should see the smoke signals on the horizon. This phase should be just as well thought out and implemented. You have to make sure your managers are equipped and prepared for this difficult situation. Molley brings up the large layoff by Big Lots, just before Christmas 2024. They were attempting to work through a merger or buy-out. When that failed, they were forced to file for bankruptcy. The notices to the employees were issued around December 15th. Families and communities were impacted and the lack of preparation and communication only exacerbated the situation. Does the Term Layoff Signify Temporarily or Permanently? Jason asks about the usage of the term layoff. It seems this is a temporary situation, but today’s conversation seems to indicated it can be a permanent separation. Which is correct? Jamie explains that some employees have union contracts. It may contain a clause for a layoff with right of recall. This means those employees will be added to list and will be contacted for rehire, once the company begins that process. On the flipside, the company may not be required to specify the duration of the layoff, nor when the rehiring process would begin. Jamie further explains that a layoff typically occurs due to no fault of the individual. Termination may be performance-related, but generally means employment has ended. Going back to the term furlough, it would normally involve a defined period of time. Be sure to join us for File 25, Layoffs and Lay-Ups (Part 2). That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/36276375

Equipping Organizations and Visionaries - Interview with Summer Dixon Goldberg 04/09/2025

Equipping Organizations and Visionaries - Interview with Summer Dixon Goldberg File 23: In today’s file, the team welcomes Summer Dixon Goldman of Dixon Strategies. She offers fractional Chief Operating Officer services for owners, founders and CEOs. Dixon Strategies brings order to chaos. Meet Summer Goldman Summer had a 20-year, corporate career. She has a background in agriculture and lending. The majority of her corporate experience was in leadership roles related to sales and operations teams. She eventually made the decision to start her own company. Summer begins by explaining fractional chief operating officer services looks different for different organizations. She focuses on startups, small businesses and family-run businesses. She either serves as a fractional COO, or as a consultant to the existing operations team. Summer also has a . She serves in the peer-advisory role and as a coach. Her practice is comprised of an entrepreneurial group of CEOs, although still focused on startups, small businesses and family-run entities. Challenges People Need Help Solving, Today Jamie asks about the trends in the types of challenges Summer is seeing in today’s marketplace. One issue Summer sees is the location of the workforce. She has an advanced manufacturing client with locations across Kentucky. The challenge for this company is sourcing local talent, in a very competitive environment. Another issue is the multi-generational workforce. Each group has its own unique needs and desires. This can lead to misunderstandings between the generations and challenges for the company leadership trying to manage the diverse issues that arise. There’s also the ongoing challenge of being clear when attempting to communicate/establish expectations with various groups of people and/or individuals. Jason comments that he recognizes the issue of geographic locations of the workforce. It’s been a challenge for growing markets in Kentucky. Bowling Green, for instance, is exploding. Manufacturing is a growth-area that’s especially hot in Warren County. He discusses how Bowling Green has addressed the workforce issue head-on and the result is Bowling Green becoming the fastest growing market in Kentucky and one of the fastest in the country. How Are Companies Addressing the Workforce Issues Relative to Misplacement or Displacement? Jason asks Summer about her perspective on how other Kentucky areas are dealing with what Bowling Green had to overcome. It begins with communities finding effective ways to communicate the various opportunities available in their respective, geographic areas. On the surface, certain industries may not seem as attractive, until you begin to understand the advantage they offer to the individuals and the communities, at large. Branding the workforce experience for those particular industries is important. Summer goes on to stress the importance of meeting people where they are, in a very broad sense. This encompasses their physical location, skill set and their personal goals. It’s a question of figuring out how to blend and balance both the business’ and personal needs. Addressing the Skills Gap The team focused on this in , with Amy Rudy. Summer hones in on the advanced manufacturing space. We’ve lost a lot of those jobs. However, she points out that the coal industry workers actually have skills that lend themselves to those of advance manufacturing. There’s also a similar fit for certain areas of agriculture. Skills in areas such as diesel mechanics, livestock or crop production and others are actually quite applicable. Jamie refers back to the 3-Part series WTF recorded on . A key point was to avoid being overly rigid in the specific attributes you use to screen prospective employees. Transferrable skills exist, but the individual may not recognize this fact. Thus, they never connect with the potential employer. Summer recalls how File 14 also offered suggestions on . Immigrant populations and veterans can be ideal candidates. Molley discusses how individuals can leverage transferable skills, or up-skill themselves to equip them to qualify for those new types of jobs. Molley’s company, Incipio, is actively matching individuals with positions that have “like” skill sets, based on the information they’ve submitted. The software is highlighting matching skill sets, some of which you may not have previously considered. What Are Leaders Missing in Terms of Workforce Development? Jason asks about what Summer is seeing as potential blind spots she’s seen leaders fail to recognize. She notes that many founders/owners struggle with understanding why members of their teams aren’t as passionate as they are about the business. In reality she points out that they’re not going to be. It’s not their baby. They most likely don’t have their life’s savings invested. The answer might be to work on creating a culture of people who are passionate about you. This is particularly relevant in the entrepreneurial space where often the founder is the brand. You can develop a team that’s passionate about working in that environment or with that particular leadership style. It may be the work or the mission that attracts them. For Summer, this is an ongoing puzzle she’s trying to solve. Jason relates his own leadership experience, as it relates to his team. He feels an immense responsibility to cultivate and equip his employees for success. They’re real people, not inputs. You’re developing their careers. That’s a powerful north star. Summer points out that the leaders with whom she works often feel a deep responsibility to their employees. The challenge is helping the people to see that’s a key advantage of working is those specific organizations. It’s a way to create passion, and can be a differentiator. It’s not about making this part of the marketing communications. As a leader, it’s about showing up and being consistent with that level of focus on the team. But, it must be done authentically. The results will follow. What Advice Could Summer Offer to Leaders and their HR Partners? One of the first questions Summer asks of a prospective client is, “Who’s your HR partner?” It may be internal, but when the partner is external, she follows up with, “Have you considered…” HR challenges are going to surface. Leaders need to ensure they have a structure including and beyond the job description. Have leadership training. It’s a core area ranging from the technical piece to strategy. As the HR partner, you have to have a level of understanding when you’re working with a visionary. It’s incumbent upon that partner to ensure they are speaking to the audience. Pick the priorities. Jason points out that sometimes there’s a person who serves as the interpreter or liaison between the visionary and the team. It may be an operations role that recasts what the visionary was trying to convey, albeit in a more appropriate or understandable manner. How to You Coach a Visionary to Recognize the Need for and to Find that Intermediary? The group agrees this is almost like matchmaking. Summer recommends explaining to the visionary that he/she needs some clarity around something. It doesn’t have to be everything. Expectation-setting is an important step in this process. The intermediary should be ready to ask a lot of questions of the visionary, in an effort to determine the actual risk-tolerance of that leader. A balance needs to be struck at the foundational level. HR may be able to cultivate the benefit to having the visionary buy into bringing on the person to fill this role. It may take courage to approach the idea, but it’ll be worth it in the end. Would You Like to Contact Summer Dixon Goldman? LinkedIn: Website: Phone: (812) 630-9448 That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/36065010

Workforce Development and the Skills Gap 03/26/2025

Workforce Development and the Skills Gap File 22: In today’s file, the team welcomes Amy Rudy, the Founder of Impact Sales Systems, to discuss the challenge of staying relevant in your industry or field and growing your knowledge, skills and abilities. It’s also going to require a level of resilience to remain agile in the future of work. In case you missed them, the previous 2 episodes focused on The Future of Work. Click the below links to listen: · · Meet Amy Rudy Amy is a sales and sales management coach. She works with business owners and sales teams on the behaviors behind selling. She often works with solely-owned and closely-owned businesses. Prior to launching Impact Sales Solutions, Amy founded a software development firm that built custom solutions for specialized challenges facing both small businesses and Fortune 500 companies. The Gap Left when a Founder Leaves the Organization Amy explains that a successful business will often outgrow the skill set that enabled it to launch and grow, in the early days. This is especially true of a business that had a sole owner/founder. It works for a while, but because so much of what makes the organization unique is tied to the knowledge, skills and relationships of that individual, it may be difficult to export that talent to a larger team. As the team attempts to take shape, the initial inertia can slow and leave the team wondering how it can regain the momentum and direction. Managing the Transition It may be a case of the leader wanting to retire or exit in 15 years, or so. However, when Amy is approached with the idea of accelerating that exit to 18 months or less, it’s virtually impossible. Now the exit can definitely take place, but it’s a question of how stable the company was built to withstand the event. It’s a matter of being strategic with the decision. If new leaders are beginning to surface and take on some of the responsibilities, they may be willing to do even more. There’s already a sense of forward motion occurring. The reality is often smaller companies are managed and controlled (along with the decision-making). This environment may work well for the leader, but the rest of the organization is underprepared to move beyond that individual; even to survive after the exit. Is the organization ready to operate with a business-mindset, rather than as a personal checkbook? Amy recommends planning for succession much earlier that people often assume is necessary. The Importance of Creating Succession Plans Jason asks about how this is initiated and developed. Amy comments that it’s a question of whether the organization needs “more of same” or needs to pivot. If the company needs more of the same approach, then documenting work processes and operations would make sense. Amy prefers to begin by asking the client(s) to describe their future. What does FutureCo look like? How much revenue will it produce? How much volume will be required to generate that revenue? Is it truly more of same or is it different? Will it need to move faster? Will the problems be more complex? She also challenges the client(s) to consider the required capabilities. Describe the necessary skills to operate at those levels and in those areas. How much cash will FutureCo require to operate at those levels? It’s a matter of really attempting to define what the intended future will look like. Once you have that vision defined, Amy notes that the business needs to measure where they are today, using the same metrics, for CurrentCo. When accurately performed, a true gap-analysis provides valuable insights. Leaders should then involve the people around them to figure out what needs to be done differently to become FutureCo, as envisioned. One of the underlying challenges becomes reality when the new leader steps into the role, but the insight and resulting roadmap doesn’t exist, because it walked out the door inside the previous leader’s head. This can echo throughout company leadership as people begin to protect what they know. There’s no real knowledge transfer and the organization becomes stuck, or worse yet, begins to regress. It may not be a question of who the organization replaces “Steve” with another Steve (e.g. more of same). Maybe Steve hit his performance ceiling. It’s it possible that moving forward will require a different kind of leader who can take what Steve began and effectively navigate into the future? Jason and Amy discuss the view that, “It worked, so why change it?” Assessing whether it’s still working and will it work in the future are importantly different questions. While this is a difficult conversation to have, Amy observes that there are people at the table who want to be part of the conversation, but unfortunately are not always given the opportunity to contribute their ideas, perspectives and innovation to the situation. Having a level of transparency among all leadership roles should mean that everyone can contribute. Unfortunately, people become accustomed to waiting to be told what to do next, rather than helping to define what actually needs to be done next. However, if a business owner can adopt that mindset and begin encouraging those additional points of views, true progress can be made toward actively planning and preparing for FutureCo. Planning Remains Important Amy reinforces the need to have solid roles and responsibilities enabling people to communicate what and how they’re going to proceed, while enabling the organization to measure that progress is important. It’s about accountability and results. This is especially true in sales. Enable to individuals to own the role and own the goal. Are there Trends in the Skills Gaps? Jason asks Amy if there seem to be a set of trends she notices in the workforce? Technology is advancing incredibly quickly. Technical skills involving office tools, such as spreadsheets, could enable people to analyze large data sets on their own. There seems to be a gap in this area. Additionally, Amy recognizes gaps are apparent in: · - Negotiating · - Forecasting & Planning · - Accounting · - Account-level Planning · - Questioning · - Navigating the Way Forward Are your sales people neglecting the sales tools and simply waiting for leads to be generated for them? Are they consistently initiating contacts and cultivating referral-relationships? Even an excellent marketing machine will only generate a certain percentage of leads. The individual network a professional can cultivate could generally exceed that. Is it being developed, effectively and consistently? Amy points out that while marketing can plant seeds in the minds of a target audience, sales has to be there exploring those opportunities with those prospective clients. That requires an understanding of the prospect’s business, as well as their own. This is a definite skills gap. Is This the Greatest Gaps Amy Sees in Her Client Base? Amy begins by confirming it’s fixable. Understanding how a business makes money and where the problems typically exist is vital. It’ll help to identify the problem you solve and how that impacts the prospect’s P&L. One of the issues is that business owners may not be focused on developing that talent within their respective staffs. Do those sales professionals know how to think like a business owner? Does the business owner share their own P&L to provide insights and to demonstrate the relationships between the line items? Is the business owner training them to make decisions like a business owner? How to Improve the Job Description and/or Interview Process to Identify those Gaps Having worked with Molley and Jamie, Amy is confident business owners may not know the skills they need or what will need to be different to move them toward FutureCo. Often the descriptions are copied from previous versions. Amy leads clients through an assessment of the specific skill sets the company needs. The list could be extensive. It’s critical to understand the skills and why they’re important to the specific role in question. Does the candidate have the proper mindset to sell into a C-Suite verses a different client base? This may be a key, differentiating factor. Amy recommends having the gaps identified in what’s required verses those your best candidate brings. This way, on day one, you already know where you need to upskill or equip him/her for success in your marketplace. There’s no such thing as 100% fit. There’s always a gap that can be addressed. How do you create the opportunities to enable the individual to close the that gap and any others that are apparent? Can Companies Define What Success Looks Like for Their New Hires? Jamie asks this question based on the premise that it’s easier to identify the skills that are needed rather than what those skills are meant to deliver. Amy recommends including interview questions focused on how the candidate can demonstrate their skills to a prospective employer. Amy goes on to explain that if the leader’s goals for the organization are overly general, or vague, they haven’t broken down what it would actually take to be successful in that role. An overreliance on the dashboard may mask specific behaviors that ultimately result in the metrics that show up on the dashboard. For instance, how does a sales professional plan his/her weekly activities, how they conduct their conversations, do they sound like a traditional sales rep or more like an advisor who is equipped with insights and knowledge to help the prospective client? Jason comments on the talent and skills an effective sales professional brings to the role. He admits that he’s challenged during interviews with prospective sales candidates, because he leads them too much with his questioning. Many business owners and managers often get sold during the interview, only to discover that individual isn’t exactly what they thought, before hiring them. The other challenge, Jason observes, is that the owner or manager fails to manage their new sales hire through the gaps. Advice to Prepare to Interview Someone for a Sales Role Amy leads with an admonition to stop validating yourself and force them to validate themselves. You should be transparent, but you still need to test for fit instead of focusing on selling the candidate on the job opportunity. The hiring process should result in a mutual selection. Again, be transparent about the current situation within the company and its market environment. Is your organization anticipating a period of significant changes? Is your market leadership making you a target for your competitors? Define the necessary skills for the company to be successful and then provide the candidate an opportunity to demonstrate those specific skills and aptitudes. It’s not inappropriate to ask them to bring examples of how they’d plan their week. This is especially important for remote work. Undertraining, even a seasoned sales professional, is a key reason they may be looking for a new opportunity. Simply dumping that individual into a situation and requiring them to figure it out (e.g. sink or swim) is a recipe for failure. As the team discussed in , there’s a value to a well-designed and executed on-boarding program. Jason points out that often the person hiring for the role may not have direct experience having been in that role, so they don’t know what they should ask and how to respond to the answers provided. Amy describes her surprise with how long it takes for an owner to begin discussing the earnings potential, during the interview. A typical sales professional is going to key in on that aspect of the discussion. At the same time, has the leader developed a solid understanding relationship between the compensation and the cost of the product or service. This topic should be covered very early in the engagement. What Do the Skill Sets of Successful Sale Professionals Look Like in the Future? Molley asks what should be expected as we continue to look forward. It’s imperative that sales professionals have and continue to develop strategic mindset activities. The sales team should evolve into an advisory resource for company leadership. The resulting collaborative approach can help to identify deficits in features/capabilities. It can also provide insights into the profitability of what’s actually being sold. A trusted feedback loop will also provide information on how the competition is adjusting to your offering. In reality, Amy often observes the skills gap may actually be in the leadership seats. It goes back to whether the owner or leader knows how to build a cohesive team who know how to properly define where the organization needs to go, how it’s going to get there and the resource required for the journey. Relying too much on the automation, to the detriment of actually knowing what the detailed activities truly are, is a challenge for some leaders. Automation is a tool; not an answer. The pace of change is accelerating. Focus your leadership team on finding ways to look further down the road that your competition my currently be doing. Challenge them to develop the most effective plan to get there and hold people accountable for the results. Would You Like to Contact Amy Rudy? Website: Phone: (502) 589-2139 That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/35867325

The Future of Work Part 2 03/12/2025

The Future of Work Part 2 File 21: In today’s file, the team continues the discussion on the future of work, namely the changes to where and how we’ll work, in the not too distant future. Remember, we let AI draft the outline for this file. Jason and Molley haven’t seen the outline. We’ll see where the machine takes us! If you missed Part 1, you can listen to it here: The Gig Economy Is Booming Will this continue to grow? Will contract-work increase? Jason points out that not everyone is wired to be a business owner. It’s a big step and can be more complicated that it appears, on the surface. Before you quit your office job and jump into the world of full-time entrepreneurship, you may want to follow his example. Jason dipped his toe into the water by doing some side-hustle work to see if it was a viable option. He is a fan of gig-work. He uses it himself. However, it’s not for everyone. While he does think the gig economy is part of the future of work, there are many challenges for those getting into it on a full-time basis. Jamie talks about her dad’s decision to take a part-time job after retiring. He actually enjoyed the freedom and the income the job provided. She goes onto explain that if you are hiring gig-workers, there are some challenges. These could include a lack of continuity, you may not be able to spend the time training them like you would a typical employee, and you’ll need to be very confident in the people whom you decide to hire on a gig-style basis. Molley see this as a viable option for structured individuals. There are various websites that connect companies with gig workers such as: · · · Note: Molley is not specifically endorsing these sites. As it relates to gigs for meal delivery, rideshare services and others, these will continue to be good ways to supplement your income. These could also be viable transitional jobs. Prediction Molley sees gig work as being both generational and situational, as it continues to grow. Reskilling Will Be Part of Life Jamie mentions the availability of online course, such as on LinkedIn Learning. Some colleges/universities provide free courses. Will these continue to be part of individuals’ development plans? The group discusses Python, which is a coding language. AI can step in and code a process or task for you, as well. Learning how to work with these tools is a definite advantage. Jason notes that traditional education isn’t necessarily the best path for every individual. Technology is allowing people to choose their own paths and lifestyles. It requires courage and discipline, but just like gig work, it’s viable. Molley mentions that she knows people who will work for Amazon or some other employer, and then take several months off to do something else. The availability of these jobs may provide healthcare benefits and other advantages. It’s a lifestyle choice. Jason discusses how employers will need to be aware that potential candidates have options. This lifestyle approach to working can become either a threat or potential competitor to your workforce development efforts. Jamie mentions that technology is moving forward more quickly than traditional education. We’re going to have to find other ways to upskill or reskill our workforce. It’s going to take some significant investment by employers. Jason points out that if companies resist the need to reskill employees, those individuals are going to seek it out on their own, and may pursue new opportunities as a result. Molley suggests individuals explore reskill and upskill opportunities thorough resources such as . There are tons of classes available. Jamie reads through some of the industry-specific “callouts” related to reskilling. · - Healthcare · - Education · - Retail · - Manufacturing · - Finance Because we’re discussion the future of work, Jason asks the group if we’ll every have a existence? Molley thinks it’ll happen but maybe not in their lifetime. Challenges Concerning the Future of Work The ethics of AI will be a significant challenge. Rules, or policies, need to be created and enforced as we continue to embrace AI-developed work product. Mental health can be strained as remote workers feel the pressure to be “on” 24/7. This is going to negatively affect the work quality, over the long-term, if employers aren’t sensitive to this risk. Job displacement through automation. This will be another reason organizations will need to focus on reskilling or upskilling the workforce. Automation and technology don’t have to be a threat, as long as employees have the skills to embrace and optimize the processes using these new technologies. That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/35653310

The Future of Work - Part 1 02/26/2025

The Future of Work - Part 1 File 20: In today’s file, the team will discuss the future of work, namely the changes to where and how we’ll work, in the not too distant future. In an effort to lighten up the topic, we let AI draft the outline for this file. Jason and Molley haven’t seen the outline. We’ll see where the machine takes us! Companies Will Adapt to Remote Work to Survive? There’s been a lot of chatter about the return-to-office trend. How will this affect the workforce? Molley suggests that top talent may decide to seek other companies allowing its teams at least some work-from-home flexibility. Jason’s company, CrowdSouth, has decided to let everyone work from home, although they have periodic, internal, in-person meetings. Client meetings are also generally held in-person. Some employees do enjoy coming into the office and interacting with colleagues. While he understands the advantages of being able to stay home, there are many jobs that can’t be done that way. One of the compromises (or sacrifices) we’ve made is giving up that traditional 9-5 work day. Working from home often results in work being done throughout the day and night. As an HR professional, Jamie admits not walking through the office environments makes it more difficult for her to get a sense of the way employees are interacting. It makes it more of a challenge to understand how the culture is actually working. Remote work also makes it more difficult to form those bonds with colleagues. Companies are required to be more intentional about how they maintain productivity and cultivate a positive experience. Molley notes that if we were to return to the office, it may help to reestablish boundaries for everyone. This may help to better define when someone is “on” and when they’re “off.” That line has gotten blurred over the past several years. Jason explains how the work being done is more difficult for managers to accurately track. Members of his team may decide to work more at night or to take longer lunch breaks. While it may be okay for some organizations, it may present more of a challenge for others. For instance, because the employees don’t have that face-to-face interaction, there may be less of a social bonding taking place. His company uses a practice during weekly meetings to enable each team member to talk about personal bests they accomplished, in additional to their work-related accomplishments. This is an actual agenda item for their meetings. Molley suggests there should be a hybrid approach to having employees re-enter the office. Maybe this is a 3-2 arrangement or some other workable combination. Jamie explains a concept referred to as the “Trust Triangle.” It’s made up of 3 attributes: being authentic, being empathetic and having rigorous logic. When combined, an organization can use it to build trust. This can be helpful as companies begin to require employees to return to the office. The trust triangle can be a guiding principle in helping organizations to successfully navigate this change. Jason points out that some companies, including his, hired remotely. This may present a significant barrier to requiring everyone to return to a central office. Prediction: Jamie predicts that hybrid work arrangements will be the solutions. Organizations will need to balance flexibility with customer needs. Molley sees a significant push in 2025 to have employees return to the office on a more regular basis. She sees the hybrid becoming the solution for 2026 and beyond, in an effort to keep top talent. Jason agrees with both, but adds that it’s going to be more based on the industry or roles involved. AI and Automation Will Grow in Significance Jamie discusses how she’s begun using . It creates charts, graphs and summaries from Excel spreadsheets (take that you pivot table aficionados). She also uses AI to draft policies, based on previous policies she may have written. It’s an expedited path, verses always starting from scratch. Recently, she used AI to help outline a process map for organization design. Again, it’s a way to get started more quickly. Molley uses ChatGPT to rewrite a document she’s already drafted. She like how it can make a draft much more understandable. On a different level, she sees how AI will have a dramatic effect on recruiting. While it may not fully replace the human, it will augment the process and reduce the time required to perform certain tasks from talent attraction to assimilation. Jamie notes that if you decide to use AI in recruiting, you will still be responsible for your screening. It cannot have an unintended or disparate impact. You need to be careful here. A recent case made it to the Supreme Court. Jason comments that there are a number of sensitive topics and asks he doesn’t see being transitioned to AI. He sees the value in having it write a first draft for an important press release. Spell checking is another AI-delegated task. He points out that the liability will require the final version to remain in human hands. In the marketing and advertising space, Jason uses various AI tools. For instance, one assists with A/B testing suggestions. AI can easily create additional versions of an add, enabling them to test which would be the best option. It’s definitely a time-saving tool. Rather than replacing the human touch, it makes his team more efficient. They can spend more time on the main creative, rather than on the various iterations. Jamie enjoyed an AI tool on the recruiting-side. It reviewed and evaluated job descriptions to determine if they leaned feminine or masculine. Certain words or phrasing might attract a certain gender to a specific opportunity. Jason points out that the AI was created by humans and the algorithms often pull from certain sources. Both of these factors could introduce a degree of bias. Molley also use AI to help the job description to target specific types of applicants. For instance, an industrial construction job description needs to be different from one for a residential contractor. The two industries use different words. Understanding this will help recruiting software to forward specific opportunities to the proper target candidate pool. This maximizes the impact of the market funds allocated to recruitment activities. The group discusses the need to review how AI enhanced the copy or draft. You’ll still want to verify that it fully understood the task it was given and that it executed properly. This is extremely important from a compliance perspective. Prediction: Jamie predict that the use of AI and automation will continue to grow, but we’ll need to be careful with the inputs and spend time evaluating the outputs. This may lead to the development of new skills. Molley feels AI and automation will require us to discuss the future of careers. The cross-functionality we have will play a part, but the role requirements are definitely going to need to adapt. Jason notes that it won’t be about replacing roles, but rather a question of which responsibilities can be enhance using AI and automation. He also encourages leaders to explore the capabilities of these AI tools. Molley suggests there may be ways for organizations to reallocate funds to ensure employees receive a financial benefit, based on the savings that might be related to a position eliminated through AI.d It’s interesting to think about where AI and automation will take us in the next 10 years. Be sure to join us for Part 2 of the discussion! That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/35442140

Show Me the Money when It Comes to Employee Benefit Programs 02/12/2025

Show Me the Money when It Comes to Employee Benefit Programs File 19: In today’s file, the entire team is back in the studio. They welcome Wendy Hall to discuss showing you the money. She is an Employee Benefits Advisor for USI Insurance Services. The group discusses the impact of taking an innovative approach to employee benefit programs. There are ways to do this in a very, cost-effective manner. Meet Wendy Hall Wendy has spent many years in focusing in the areas of employee benefits and HR. Her passion is helping employers create a motivated and engaged workforce through effective benefits plan, without breaking the bank. The relative cost of benefits has a significant impact on the financials of most companies. Wendy’s objective is to help employers control those costs while getting employees excited about the available benefit options. Transparency Leads to Value with Benefits Molley is a strong proponent of ensuring the total benefits package is delineated in an offer letter. Ideally, that second page should go into great detail to help the prospective employee to easily see beyond the base pay. Many employers miss out on the opportunity to showcase the value of the entire package. It may be a lost opportunity to differentiate the offer from others that may be in consideration. This tactic can also be applied to an annual review. Wendy notes this is a common topic executives want her perspectives on during an engagement. The arrive frustrated because employees or prospective employees are pursuing other options because they don’t fully recognize the value added by the benefits program and/or package. She points out that it may be a case of the employer failing to effectively communicate the value of the various elements being offered. On the other side of the coin, many employers overlook the possibility of asking what their workforces would like to see as part of their benefits. Wendy points out that we have 5 different generations in the workforce, so a one-size-fits-all approach to benefits will typically fail. Employees have different needs and wants, depending upon the stage of life they are in. Jamie recalls her first job. She read through the benefits, but didn’t understand the difference between co-insurance and co-pay. She didn’t understand how to make the optimal 401(k) selections. To make matters worse, the company didn’t provide resources to help her think through these important options. How Are Companies Beginning to Educate Their Employees about Benefits? Wendy begins with insurance, because it’s typically a large, specific line item on the financials. However, open enrollment really happens once a year. So, how can companies use the remaining 11 months of the year to educate their respective workforces? One option is to begin analyzing the gaps in care and/or education. Are there trends and grouping in the types of questions employees are asking? Those clusters can identify opportunities for focused education and communication. Proactive implementation of this education and communication may ensure the upcoming open enrollment period goes more smoothly. It also empowers the employees to may better decisions about their individual benefits. How Often Should an Organization Audit Its Benefit Package? If your organization is run by a board, or is a government entity, regulations are probably already in place regarding the audit frequency. For example, there may be a requirement that an RFP be issued every 3 years. There’s also a due diligence process. If your feedback loops are indicating certain elements aren’t working well, it’s a signal you should begin investigating alternative providers and options. The size of your organization doesn’t necessarily have an impact on the frequency. In reality, it may be driven more by the available funding for the benefit programs. Wendy comments the importance of considering the costs related to retention, turnover and recruitment, that bucket may provide additional fund that could be leveraged to improve the mix of benefit options being made available to your employees. She notes benefits are definitely a differentiator related to those metrics. The Importance of Employee Surveys It’s important to include sections related to benefit offerings in your employee surveys. It affords the workforce a chance to provide input and share perspectives about what they find valuable and what they don’t. That process can foster a sense of ownership. The positive effect is multiplied when they see the organization implementing changes, based on that feedback. How Transparent Should Management Be Regarding the Available Benefits? Wendy views transparency as “your best friend.” It’s a competitive marketplace and employees often have options. The grass may seem greener elsewhere, if the organization is not promoting the condition of the grass on its side of the fence. Take the time to conduct in-depth benefit reviews to education and help employees to optimize their selection/use of the available benefits. Wendy has evidence to show that even a poor benefits plan, when properly communicated, can be viewed as a strong plan by the employees. At the same time, a great program that’s not properly communicated won’t perform as well. Jamie recommends sharing benchmark information. Sharing information can help to build trust throughout the organization. Wendy notes that from an internal perspective, employers should also benchmark their plans to proactively identify deficiencies, as well as advantages, when compared to their respective industry sectors and geographic regions. This data should be available from your benefits broker. Jason points out that companies can allocate specific time for companywide presentations, including company financials. This is an opportunity to highlight the various elements of the benefit program and to be candid about certain cost constraints. Is There a Difference to Pre-Employment vs. Active Employment Benefit Needs? Wendy approaches this question by sharing how the traditional benefits program is being forced to evolve. Employees are looking for more of a cafeteria-style program. She connects that trend to back to the multi-generational nature of the workforce. Options are important. Lifestyle Savings Accounts (LSAs) are increasingly popular. Employers set aside specific funds that can the employee can be applied to certain services. Life coaching, pet insurance, funeral expenses, home office furniture, gym memberships are innovative benefit options. The success of these types of options relies on effective communication about the available services and how they can help. Wendy notes there are vendors who can assist in putting these options together, similar to HSA or FHA programs. Remember, the LSA would utilize post-tax dollars, as opposed to pre-tax dollars. Another advantage is LSAs give the employees a sense of control or ownership in their benefits. Financial education services are popular options for employees. Financial stress is a productivity sink for many employees. They spend time at work trying to deal with personal, financial issues. The stress can be a major distraction leading to health issues. Providing a financial counseling or service option can be a valuable benefit. Available Resources for Companies that Don’t Have Benefit Teams Wendy explains small employers have a variety of options to address this challenge. Most brokers have groups dedicated to supporting smaller organizations. The needs are often different, so providing experienced resources can help to guide those clients through these challenges. Consider reaching out to community resources, such as Chamber programs. Many chambers have access to group plans enabling smaller organizations to leverage their membership plans. Benefit services and analysis should be available, assuming you’re working with the right team. Molley emphasizes the importance of engaging your broker to help manage the offerings, rather than trying to do it independently. A program with a good mix of options is a workforce retention tool. Healthcare Benefits are Complicated Wendy shares that even after 30 years in the industry, when she receives an EOB, it’s still stressful. Now, imagine how an employ probably feels when they receive one. How confusing can the information be for them? This is another area in which education is important. Knowing whom you should contact with questions is important. Is it your carrier or your broker? You need to be able to reach out for assistance. Remember there are many vendors available to assist with the education, benefit selection tools, enrollment, and census reviews to guide you. All of this can help the employer to select the best possible plans for their organizations. It’s much better than the alternative of throwing a dart at the wall, during open enrollment. Having an advisor to guide you through the options and tools is a vital resource. Organizations need to understand the true costs, the value and determine if those plans align with the organizational culture. Communicating the Value of the Benefits Jamie adds that even if you’ve but together a strong benefits program, you still need to communicate the value of what it provides. Internal marketing is a component of a successful program. She recommends utilizing the total rewards statements as an effective tool for accomplishing this objective. These statements are an example of showing the employee the cost of what the organization is providing in terms of benefits. It can help the employee better understand the broader, compensation picture, beyond simply their wages or salary. Many HR systems provide this capability already. Molley explained how Wendy mentioned, in preparing for this discussion, that there’s a $500 billion loss incurred due to absenteeism, turnover, lost productivity, vacancies, etc. Employers and employees need a way of better understanding the shared impact of these issues. Should You be Apprehensive about Including Benefits Information in Marketing Materials? Jason asks Wendy what she would recommend companies do in there outreach efforts. The answer is simple. Why should an organization be hesitant about communicating with their employees? Employees leave for a variety of reasons. They have options. The cost of employee turnover is real and quantifiable. Wendy goes on to explain that every story about your company is going to be told. The question is whether the leadership, including HR and Marketing, will contribute to what’s being told. This comes back to an organization’s efforts related to establishing and maintaining that triangle of trust discussed during her . If your company is apprehensive, are the benefits worth bragging about, in the first place? If not, there’s work to be done. You can begin this by going back to the benchmarking discussed earlier. Ultimately, if there’s no enough funding to increase the benefit packages, consider other ways to accomplish the goal. Jaime suggests reviewing how the time off of work policy could become more flexible. Is there an opportunity to market (internally and externally) the work environment and culture of your organization? Wendy suggests there are strategic ways to increase the perceived value. For instance, many banks would enjoy the opportunity to educate your employees on various financial topics. This might provide the bank with an opportunity to gain new clients, as a result. This could be an extremely low-cost, high-impact benefit option. Developing programs related to preventative care is a way to add value, while possibly avoiding more substantial costs, should a disease be detected much later in its progression. Many employees may not have a primary care physician, so are their providers in your area who would be willing to work with your organization. Again, this can be a win-win situation. Wendy notes that 80% of our healthcare spend is related to care based on lifestyle decisions. Many of these decisions result in chronic, medical conditions. Some of which, may have been reduced with better preventative care. It begins with education. Preventative care education can be a low-cost addition to your benefits program. To Contact Wendy Hall: Website: Email: Phone: (502) 777-0833 That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/35254960

How Organizations Can Navigate Uncertainty 01/29/2025

How Organizations Can Navigate Uncertainty File 18: In today’s file, Molley and Jamie address the topic that is extremely relevant, now that the presidential inauguration has taken place and the new administration begins implementing its policies. It’s a good time to discuss how organizations navigate uncertainty. Whenever there’s a transition in the White House, how work works, changes. Let’s look at some helpful tips to help you lead your organization through this period of change. We’ve Been Here Before Jamie and Molley note that over their careers in HR, the fact of the matter is that we’ve all been here before. Every 4-8 years, there’s a new administration. There are themes and new policies they want to implement. Jamie’s 2nd favorite podcast is . The hosts look at business challenges and then provide a formula for solving one or more of those challenges. One of the tools they stress can be paraphrased as follows. Whenever trust is desired, you should look for 3 things: 1. Are you being authentic? 2. Are you being empathetic? 3. Are you basing your decisions on rigorous logic? Even if you and the other person(s) disagree, at least you have a foundation for a healthy conversation, based on facts rather than opinions. Applying this Concept in Times of Uncertainty Jamie uses these 3 questions in urging her team to look at their communications and their plans to confirm whether all 3 of the above questions have been positively answered. It’s way to check yourself. Molley comments that when a significant transition occurs, such as a company has been acquired, this will definitely involve navigating through uncertainty. Turning toward 2025, we are dealing with a transition, it’s just seemly bigger. By asking the 3 questions, above, you may be able to ask yourself which one you’re not feeling as comfortable with, internally. Molley reminds us that we have to be strong enough to remove self, to allow for a diversity of thinking. We need to be able to consider other points of view, with facts, to arrive at the right plan for all involved. What Will 2025 Bring? One of the top factors in the uncertainty is the issue what will be the impact of the uncertainty on the workforce? Driving change in a workforce made up of now 6 generations in the workplace is becoming a reality. Leaders are going to have to be proactive in their strategies, their communications and their interactions because of the uncertainty. They are going to have to prepare to manage the ripple effect. The importance of strategic planning is heightened especially in periods of uncertainty. You must maintain a laser-focus on what’s important. Events are going to try to distract us from our goals, personally and organizationally, as the environment shifts. Translating Strategic Planning Goals Having goals is only the beginning. Assigning responsibility to an individual, team or department is vital. Molley asks how many of us listed “Pandemic” in our SWOT analysis prior to the past few years? Molley explains how each goal represents a different success story for her company’s strategic plan, depending upon where you are in the organization. It’s important that everyone have at least a small piece of responsibility or owner ship in those overall goals, to be successful as a company. Moving beyond the political, when it comes to our communities in general, the lack of commitment needs to be brought into the light. Society tends to believe it’s okay to flip-flop multiple times. Does this current zeitgeist work against the 3 questions listed above? In many ways, it certainly does. So, how can we do better in 2025? Uncertainty and Change Has an Impact Mental health is a key area that can be negatively impacted during times of uncertainty and change. It’s going to be a challenge finding that sense of balance in the upcoming months. Molley recommends finding a way to unplug. Unfortunately, there’s often an accompanying sense of guilt leading up to those few days off. She comments how it’s so critically important to “disconnect, so we can reconnect.” This is similar to one of the topics from , slowing down to speed up. We need to find a way to quit being reactive. Because we don’t know what’s coming, we constantly live in a period of uncertainty. How one approaches this fact will have an impact on how businesses lead their respective workforces. Immigration is one of the drivers of uncertainty, across the country. There will be discussions about how to properly classify workers. What will be the Department of Labor’s view of how contractors and other workers are classified? Given the labor shortage, some states are considering a reevaluation of the child labor requirements. Jamie recommends tasking someone in the organization with the responsibility of monitoring the various government websites. There are many opinions, but TikTok isn’t the most reliable source of information. The is where you’ll find many of the updates. Your State Department of Labor website is another (). If you have questions, you may have access to an employment attorney, or you could contact , for to speak with an HR professional. The Department of Labor also posts important labor statistics, which was discussed in , last year. The WTF team provided useful tips about how to read and understand some of those statistics. Molley brings up the concept that we also need to consider the ways people are going to come to us. Some employees may need the option of a work from home arrangement, for at least part of the week, to address family issues. How can a workable solution be crafted? Jamie suggests the value of staying educated using resources, such as the . You may have different rules in different state’s that require a constant monitoring for compliance. Be sure to check-in with your local teams to make sure the plans that have been implemented are actually working at those locations. Are they properly executed? Are they adequately supported? Discipline yourself to return to those initial 3 questions to make sure you’re showing up from a position of trust. You can navigate uncertainty, with certainty, is by ensuring we are listening. Is it working? Accept that you can’t possibly know everything. A key lesson from the pandemic is that we had to learn to be adaptable. Everything kept changing. Stay flexible. Communication Is the Key By keeping open the lines of communication, and realizing it’s okay to say, “I don’t know,” we’ll be able to forge trust in uncertain times. Confront the issues head-on, be candid and resist the temptation to close off the world by staying in your office. Consider asking how the other person might suggest we approach the problem at hand. Foster good communication. It also leads to buy-in of the solution. Keep the dialog and the information flow going. To Summarize: · - Utilize the 3-Question Tool (authenticity, empathy, and rigorous logic) · - Are You Doing Strategic Planning? · - Balance Employee Needs and Business Needs · - Use Trusted Resources (e.g. Government Websites) to Anticipate Upcoming Challenges · - Maintain Healthy Communication Patters, Even When You Don’t Have the Answers That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/35063935

Leadership and Wellness with Tiffany Nugent 01/15/2025

Leadership and Wellness with Tiffany Nugent File 17: In today’s file, we begin Season 2 of the podcast. Today, the team welcomes Tiffany Nugent, an HR practitioner for over 20 years. The discussion is going to focus on leadership and wellness. They’ll explore the challenge of creating a wellness-focused organization. Meet Tiffany Nugent Tiffany has experience in a broad range of industry sectors, including retail, manufacturing, fulfillment, healthcare and healthcare technology. She led a healthcare organization through a rapid-growth phase, then through the COVID pandemic. Afterwards, she transitioned into healthcare technology. That organization was experiencing double-digit growth before closing down. Currently, Tiffany is working in the virtual, mental health space. Interestingly, Tiffany is also the owner of the . They partner with organizations interested in bringing wellness into the workplace. Molley comments on how so many leaders neglect wellness within their respective organizations. She blames this on the previous 4-years, post pandemic, and that we haven’t shifted back. Jamie notes that often leadership underestimates their impact on the wellness of others. It’s not simply something quick, such as direct feedback. It may take someone time to digest the feedback before deciding to act. It could take years. She advises leaders to be mindful of creating a spark that could eventually grow into forest fire. Being Intentional about Organizational Wellness Jamie remarks on Tiffany’s focus on how organizations support wellness, especially when resilience, adaptability and culture belong at the forefront. Tiffany describes a scenario from the pandemic. It heightened her awareness of how an organization has a responsibility to support its leaders, so they in turn can support their employees. HR is typically under-resourced because it’s not viewed as revenue-producing. Alternatively, leadership expects HR to lead culture and wellness. In response, Tiffany views the opportunity exists for HR to equip leadership with tools to lead wellness and to create a healthy workforce. The HR staff and C-suite can’t be everywhere, so by equipping other leaders in the organization, the feedback, needs and recommendations can be more quickly communicated. They are the frontline. During the pandemic, Tiffany was approached by many leaders asking for direction and/or advice in dealing with the situations such as the death of family members. Her primary response, was to approach the situation as a human, first. There are many things that need to get done, but we’re dealing with real people experiencing real situations that could impact their ability to remain focused and engaged. Providing psychological safety in the workplace, providing space and understanding all mesh to help employees realize the company cares about them. This is how the organization ultimately benefits. Tiffany explains that sometimes, feedback isn’t necessarily required in the moment. It may be time to pause and to consider what’s going on in the person’s life. Could external issues be impacting how that employee is showing up? If you can meet them where they are and think through it, the opportunity for feedback will present itself. At the same time, that feedback might not take years to resonate within that individual (or ignite that forest fire Jamie mentioned). What Does Wellness Really Mean? Molly comments that leaders need to be told what “wellness” means. It’s not about the cafeteria, the gym or the air hockey table. The key for leaders is to take the whole person into consideration. Mid-level managers and down are need you to be mindful of leading your people. It’s typically a mix of ages, generational experience and demographics. Molley points out that the wellbeing of the human in these group is “all of their environment.” It’s requires a holistic view. Jamie adds that there are small nuggets to consider relative to wellness in the workplace. She recommends assuming the individual wanted a situation to work out well. It’s easier to have a dialog from this starting point, rather than just hammering them. Good Feedback Loops Create Healthy Environments Tiffany points out that people need to feel a sense of psychological safety in order to want to speak up. If that’s absent, it’s a marker of an unhealthy work environment. That trend toward superficial wellness (i.e. the air hockey table in the breakroom) only served to mask existing problems. When people feel comfortable enough to raise their hands and voice issues that are problematic, there’s a good sign you have a healthy workplace. Especially if surveys indicate people plan on remaining with the company, but they want to make it even better. A manager who feels the need to give feedback regardless of the size of the issue, is just feedback for the sake of feedback. Consider how your immediate, albeit well-intentioned, desire to provide feedback may lack an assumption of positive intent. You need to slow down and consider the impact of your feedback, overall. Molley explains how Incipio favors employee surveys. Helping leaders to understand and analyze the results of the feedback is critical. The pure fact that only a small percentage of the surveys were completed and returned is not a good sign, regardless of what the answers are. It may be a case of the non-respondents assuming their feedback won’t make a difference anyway. Worse yet, maybe they simply don’t care because they’ve disengaged with the mottos posted on the walls of the office or plant. This place is only a stepping stone in their future careers. So NOW You Want My Opinion? Why to employers usually only focus on feedback during the annual survey and the exit interview? If you’re waiting until the exit interview, it’s already too late. Leaders should generally have to care about the survey results. Jamie advises that if you’re not going to do something based on feedback to a particular question, don’t ask it. Tiffany points out that that non-action degrades the trust in the organization. Consistency and Cadence Tiffany recommends maintaining a consistency of the questions along with the frequency of the employee feedback surveys. If the questions keep changing, there’s no way to measure the trend or progress toward a better solution set. Once you’ve defined a way to address specific issues, it’s important to communicate the changes the company is implementing to address the issues. At the same time, be transparent about what you are unable to address in the short-term and why. This also shows up in benefit surveys. Even after the feedback was provided, there’s a good chance the benefits won’t change or may even get worse. One approach Tiffany uses is to assemble the benefit survey results and determine which benefits add the least value. Get rid of it and redirect the expenditure toward benefits people actually want. Is there an opportunity to implement a type of total rewards package that would be more beneficial to a generationally-diverse workforce? Initiatives are Good, Right? Jamie comments that companies often hear about ideas that are implemented as initiatives. The unfortunate part is they forget the “…so that…” aspect when justifying the initiative. Focusing on Wellbeing without Sacrificing Productivity Tiffany has a worked the past couple of years in a remote workforce environment. This topic is particularly important to remote-first or hybrid workforce organizations. Fundamentally, without a focus on wellbeing, you won’t get the productivity you’re expecting. You’ll experience high absentee rates and higher rates of leaves of absence. It’s often a reflection of the employees’ mental wellbeing. Leaders should look at their workforce as human beings first. Assume positive intent and ask how the company could better support and help. Tiffany recounts an engagement in which the executive team did a listening tour to try to figure out why the leaders were becoming less cohesive as group. They were all feeling over-stretched and it was beginning to show in the way in which they interacted. Once the feedback was assembled, Tiffany noted that the feedback focused on symptoms. She challenged the executive team to consider the demands being placed on the other leaders. Did they have the right tools to handle the responsibilities? She encouraged the team to dig deeper to uncover the root causes, not just the symptoms. Sprints involving extra effort hours or higher-levels of stress may be possible, but extending that expectation over the long-term leads to burnout and worse. Jamie comments, “You can’t pour from an empty cup.” Leaders should take time to understand the weight of the words they carry and the shadow they cast on the organization. Even though they may be well-intentioned and want to help, sometimes simply being there is scary or otherwise disruptive. Be self-aware and remember we’re all humans trying to work together. How Do We Strike that Balance? Molley asks about practical ways to accomplish wellness goals for the organization and organizational performance. The topic of the 9-box tool surfaces. Tiffany often works with start-ups and rapid-growth organizations. The typical 9-box approach doesn’t really work for these types of organizations, in her opinion. The place to begin is with training your leaders on how to be good people-leaders. It’s not uncommon for high-performers to get thrown into leadership roles without the proper tools and training for that role. The better approach is to consider how the organization sets its leaders up for success. Are there minimum expectations for being a good leader? Do we communicate what we see as their competencies? Unfortunately, the answer is often no. However, by taking this alternative approach we are prioritizing wellness in the workplace. In a recent executive leadership engagement, Tiffany held an impactful exercise. They reflected on what they’ve done, what could be learned from it, what should be continued, what should they stop doing, and ultimately take those lessons into planning for the next year or quarter. This should be done on a consistent frequency. It’s about investing in yourselves, regardless of how busy it may be. At Salt Wellness, Tiffany provides a space for people to get away from the chaos of work and find a place to connect with each other. They do corporate events and leadership training there. It’s a place for organizations to do teambuilding exercises and related programs. For more information: Website: In closing, Molley comments that 2025 is the year people need to make the change. It’s time to focus on slowing down to speed up. It’s time to move beyond the Band-Aids. It’s time to pay more attention to the wellbeing of the organization and its workforce. Tiffany observes that we’re already experiencing high turnover rates. People are simply burned-out. Organizations must intentionally slow down, identify the root causes and fundamentally fix the foundation that’s negatively impacting our workforce. Unless we do, we’re going to continue to see organizations limit their potential, experience decline and some ultimately won’t make it. We’d like to thank Tiffany Nugent for joining us on the Workforce Therapy Files podcast. That’s where we’ll leave the conversation for today. Before we close the file, we invite you to reach out to us with questions, suggestions or other comments. We’d love to hear from you. We hope you found this file insightful and helpful. Thank you for listening! Did You Enjoy Today’s Conversation? Visit to listen to additional WTF files or to let us know you’d like to be a guest on an upcoming file. Need Help Supporting Your Company’s Recruiting and Staffing Goals? We’re here to help. You can contact us via our individual websites, depending on your specific needs or questions: · Jamie Swaim, SPHR – · Molley Ricketts – · Jason Heflin – /episode/index/show/28060014-706e-492d-9ee1-130803f2f525/id/34864870