EP37 - Exploring Evolving Agency Branding with Stephen Brown

Are you curious about how agency branding is evolving? On this episode of CMA Connect, the CEO of the CMA, Alison Simpson, welcomes the founder and CEO of FUSE Create, Stephen Brown. Stephen describes the rebranding process that transformed into Fuse Create, where creativity comes first. He strongly suggests that agencies prioritize building the brand they want to become and encourages professionals to build their brands alongside their agencies. Stephen also reveals how industry awards are crucial in agency branding, driving team motivation and attracting new clients. Stephen also highlights the importance of company culture in an agency's success. 

00:00:01:18 - 00:00:22:17
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson.

00:00:22:19 - 00:00:48:07
Alison
In today's episode, we will explore the importance of agencies making their brands a priority and also discuss how agency branding is evolving. Similar to that old proverb that the cobbler's children have no shoes, agencies are often so focused on building their clients' brands that they don't take the time or invest the resources required to build their own. And just as it is for clients, this lack of focus on investment can be highly detrimental.

00:00:48:08 - 00:01:15:19
Alison
It's also an amazing opportunity for the agencies that do consistently make their agency brand a focus. Joining me today isStephen Brown, an agency CEO who attributes their focus and investment on their agency brand as one of the key reasons why they have been thriving for 22 years. That's an absolutely remarkable accomplishment in a highly competitive environment. After a successful career with large multinational agencies, Stephen Brown founded FUSE Create in 2003.

00:01:15:21 - 00:01:44:05
Alison
Tenacity, vision, commitment and passion for the business have been the driving force behind Stephen's marketing and advertising career. They're also clearly key to why he's thriving as an entrepreneur. With his extensive experience in brand, direct, interactive, database, promotional and exponential marketing, Stephen has the learning needed to create, strengthen and grow brands across a wide range of categories. Throughout our discussion, Stephen will share his experience on the role

00:01:44:11 - 00:02:05:09
Alison
agency, brand and culture have played in building his business, including what's worked well and some lessons that were learned the hard way. We're also going to talk about how agency branding is evolving and how it can be different for independents, multinationals and large agencies. The agency world, like every aspect of the marketing profession, is evolving quickly, and we're clearly at a pivotal time

00:02:05:13 - 00:02:10:01
Alison
with the latest merger announcement. So this is a very timely topic. Welcome, Stephen.

00:02:10:03 - 00:02:14:10
Stephen
Thank you very much. I appreciate, appreciate the opportunity to join you today.

00:02:14:12 - 00:02:22:15
Alison
Stephen, I'd like to start by hearing what led to you making your agency brand a priority when so many of your peers fall victim to the cobbler's children problem?

00:02:22:20 - 00:02:43:22
Stephen
Truthfully, it's been an amazing 22-year ride. This building, an agency from the ground up with my partners and my team. We did not always have the right view towards branding, especially, you know, if you think about any person who starts a business, your fixation to be at the beginning, this is natural, keep the client happy. Keep the client really is the goal.

00:02:44:04 - 00:03:02:16
Stephen
And so if I look in the early years of the business, we didn't have a strong enough grasp on what we really need to do from a branding perspective. So I attribute it to a couple things. One is perspective. When you start a business, you learn as you go. No one teaches you how to do these things. So I did see, I had a chance to see some things that worked and some things that didn't work.

00:03:02:18 - 00:03:21:05
Stephen
But I'd also say the agency world has dramatically changed, and much of it for the better. It's a great industry, but I don't know if we, I don't know, I don't remember as a youth in this business, the agency's brand, the name was important, but the actual amount of marketing we did, I don't remember it ever being to the level that

00:03:21:07 - 00:03:47:07
Stephen
I feel we need to do now. So it is partly, you know, partly tenure and partly just the changing landscape which has made FUSE Create, really reinvent itself, but also reinvent how we brand ourselves. In the, I can give you a bit of the journey that we've been on. I think the big mental shift is, is to separate your business and look at it like a client and give it the time and the resources that you do

00:03:47:08 - 00:04:08:07
Stephen
a client. Your cobbler shoe thing is absolutely true. When you're spending so much of your day looking at your client's business and building their websites and building their brands, building their campaigns, you're forgetting your own. So the only way to change that is we had to, like, remove ourselves almost from our own brand and look at our brand and do a deep dive on what's working, what's not.

00:04:08:09 - 00:04:26:19
Stephen
And so in 22 years, you know, this really started about seven years ago. And that was just like a client. We started with, you know, the strategic, the strategic planning phase, which was the deep dive on our business, and the deep dive on our business seven years ago is, we were in trouble. We had some problems with the business.

00:04:26:21 - 00:04:54:16
Stephen
We were a good, safe agency, and good and safe is not the space you want, in the competitive Canadian market in advertising and hyper competitiveness of Toronto. So we had to do that very cold, hard look at ourselves and say, okay, we've got some definite strengths, some good things, but we need to change dramatically. And so first step was build the brand house.

00:04:54:16 - 00:05:12:03
Stephen
So just like we would do for clients. And not build the brand out of who we were then, but build the brand house of who we want to become. And that in doing that and building that brand house of what you, what we wanted to become really then illustrated where the gaps were. And the gaps for us was our brand.

00:05:12:04 - 00:05:40:19
Stephen
What did we stand for? And what we did not stand for is a strong enough creative contender in this business. So that started a whole journey. I won't go through the whole journey. We talk about how that affects the brand, but the biggest, the biggest thing was, is a reshuffle of the whole business to being creative first, and being much more creative and how that positioning comes to life, both from internally but then externally to the world.

00:05:40:21 - 00:06:04:17
Stephen
So it started with some structural changes as far as we brought in Steve Miller or ECD, and he was amazing at coming in and, you know, really drawing the line in the sand. So here's a, here's a strategy. But now we take the strategy and make it happen. You know, first week in front of the whole company, the line was drawn clearly on a presentation, which is, we are a creative first agency starting today.

00:06:04:19 - 00:06:29:15
Stephen
And that, won't go into the shock and awe, the shock and awe, needed it, we needed it. But a third of the company just were like, "Yes. Finally." A third of the company was "I've heard big declarations before. I'm gonna hold back on my belief on this," and a third of the group was, "No, we're not, we're, this agency or that agency." But part of branding is have your conviction and stick with your story and stick with your plan.

00:06:29:15 - 00:06:49:05
Stephen
And so we stuck with the plan. And from there, Steve and the team that we built really started to rebuild the agency to the brand we wanted to be. Now, how that comes across is how we got to there and how we've gotten to where we are today. And it's been a lot of advancement is really there are some structural things behind that.

00:06:49:05 - 00:07:18:20
Stephen
So first and foremost, the name, we used to be called Fuse Marketing Group. There is no creative in the word Fuze, in the words Fuze Marketing Group, and also redirected to what we were in our origin. But that's not the company we're trying to be today. So Steve and Team really just rehauled the brand. Even like, Fuse was great, but FUSE Create, put it, declare it right in the name, and then from logo design to all, it really comes down to positioning about how we are setting ourselves up.

00:07:19:00 - 00:07:40:11
Stephen
And this all came across in our brand book. Our mantra internally is turn heads. It's, it's been working incredibly, really to just make sure, are we when we're looking at our client work, when we're when we're looking at our own work, are we able to make the consumer or the target of any sort turn their head and notice what we are communicating. And, you know, just pride behind that,

00:07:40:11 - 00:07:58:19
Stephen
a lot of energy behind that, the right type of, conviction we needed to, to do a significant change to the business. But then out of that. So, so now we have the brand, the name change. We now have this real sort of call to action - turn heads. But now we have to get this to the market.

00:07:59:00 - 00:08:29:09
Stephen
And if I look at what we did there, I mean it's structural, and it was structural how you structure the business, but also how we then would build it out. And so the structural one was, for years I would do the marketing and PR and my business partner, Garo would do the marketing, the PR. But Steve took it, owned it, but also we put a full time body, an amazing woman named Vanessa behind him to make sure that we had 100% dedicated resource to the brand of FUSE

00:08:29:09 - 00:08:49:23
Stephen
Create. And so if you look at a really simplified version of how this came together is sort of four pillars that we were working on all the time for our brand. So one would be, you know, buzz, PR awards, things that will actually get the industry and clients and people like that to notice us, to turn heads and see FUSE Create differently.

00:08:50:01 - 00:09:13:00
Stephen
Another one was really around knowledge-sharing. So how are we creating whitepapers or discussion documents or, we have these client engagement sessions called FUSE field trips. But how are we sharing the knowledge that we have of the industry? That's another pillar. People and culture. None of this is built, on its own. It's amazing to the people who build this,

00:09:13:00 - 00:09:33:12
Stephen
so share our team, let our team be out in front and let them be the face of FUSE Create, not 1 or 2 people, but multiple people. And then, well, it's not really a strategy, but it's more of a tactic, making sure we're always on. So not just when you have a campaign or not when you're just launching a new thing or a new hire, but constantly be creating content.

00:09:33:12 - 00:09:52:10
Stephen
And one of those three pillars I just mentioned that keeps us engaged, keeps our name out there, keeps our SEO scores high, all the various things that we need to be doing to make sure that we're building our brand. All of this was under the goal, it's not about trying to get a direct correlation between if I spend this, I'll get this,

00:09:52:10 - 00:10:10:21
Stephen
it's to make sure we're getting the calls. That we're getting the calls from our current clients who are happy with the work, but they're also proud of what they're seeing about us. It's alsothat, very critically, it's that we're getting calls from brands that maybe wouldn't have called us before. And thirdly, it's we're getting calls from talent who wants to work a FUSE Create.

00:10:10:23 - 00:10:20:23
Stephen
And so I can summarize it in a minute or the few minutes that took. The reality is that's a probably six year journey that we've been on to get us here. And it's been an amazing journey.

00:10:21:00 - 00:10:48:19
Alison
So I love your candour. As a founder of the organization, seven years ago, when business was soft and struggling and you had to look internally at what was working, and what wasn't, how hard was it as a founder to see what wasn't working about your baby? And how did you sort of manage that internalization of, this isn't what I'd hoped it would be at this stage in its career, while continuing to motivate the team?

00:10:48:21 - 00:11:06:04
Stephen
You know, when you look at the hindsight, maybe I don't think it was that hard. I'm sure it was pretty hard. Actually, you know, it was tough. And part of that toughness was the evolution of the business over those years. And, you know, we were much more of a digital, you below the line agency in our origin, and the line has all been blown up.

00:11:06:04 - 00:11:25:15
Stephen
So part of it, part of it was just the evolution. I think part of it was also, the evolution of the founders, and myself being half of the founders. At the time there was three of us. You know, accepting that the business is changing and you need people on your team that are stronger or better or more diverse in what they do.

00:11:25:17 - 00:11:44:21
Stephen
And so when you start the business, it's kind of like the founder's syndrome sometimes is, it all has to rest on my shoulders. And it was part of partly breaking through that, which actually I think I found quite easy because all of a sudden I realized, it's expensive, but hire, build a team that's incredible talented. And it's a lot more fun.

00:11:44:23 - 00:12:02:07
Stephen
And also allows you to do a lot more, but it was a clear reckoning that we had to have. And the, I can also say one other thing. I have had over my career, really good clients and people who you become close with and friends with, and they will tell you, well some will tell you what you need to hear.

00:12:02:09 - 00:12:18:03
Stephen
And I had one client give me very direct input that I needed to hear about the business, along the lines our creative product. Because sometimes you see it, but you don't really want to admit it. And sometimes you need to be literally slapped across the face, but you need some type of punch to hear it. And I heard it.

00:12:18:05 - 00:12:36:12
Alison
That was a phenomenal gift that she gave you. And good for you for being open and self-aware enough to actually take the advice and action it. You're managing through massive change. And you highlight that there was a third of your team who said, "Thank God, at long last, let's go," a third that were "Yeah, I've heard this big rallying cry before and it didn't manifest in any real change."

00:12:36:12 - 00:12:45:06
Alison
And then a third that were saying, "No, we don't want to stand for that." So how did you motivate the skeptics and then the people that absolutely saw a different future for FUSE?

00:12:45:08 - 00:13:07:02
Stephen
We focused on the group who was most excited and leaned a little into some who were skeptics. And whether we did it or they did it, removed the third that were thinking, we want to be, they wanted to be a different company. I can't turn you to, I can't tell you to go along. If you don't think this is the journey you want to be on, then you're not going to want to be on the journey.

00:13:07:05 - 00:13:37:05
Stephen
And that's fine. And if we fast forward that one third, who was, no our something else is not here, the rest got motivated pretty fast because we kept to the story. We showed the progress of changing the brand. Like we announced this before we had even started any of the brand rebranding stuff, but we kept coming back to, listen, we're amazing at storytelling in business, so we have to also bring that storytelling to our town halls and into our internal one-on-ones, and into our communications.

00:13:37:05 - 00:13:55:05
Stephen
So this is a journey we're on. And then they started to see proof points. They started to see the work get better. Then they started to see this big unveiling of a new brand. By the way, we did that six weeks into a pandemic. We said we just keep going, and it actually gave us something to work on because we were a little late during that pandemic for the first year.

00:13:55:07 - 00:14:21:17
Stephen
But you start to see quickly that, oh, I say you, the team started to see quickly we meant it. And that's the authenticity, if a brand is going to be successful it has to be authentic. And then they started to see the the rewards of it. So, you know, if I look at, if I look at, you know, key indicators of things I have seen, I, I have never seen FUSE Create, with such strong client retention numbers, staff retention numbers.

00:14:21:19 - 00:14:33:22
Stephen
And then there's growth, which we can talk about at some point. But, so the proof doesn't happen in year one, but you can at least give them indications that we're working towards it.

00:14:33:22 - 00:14:50:14
Alison
Now, it's a great example of how brand building is both powerful for growing the business, but also very important for both talent recruitment and talent retention. So I'd love you to share a little bit more about, with the evolution of FUSE Create how that's contributed to both retention and talent recruitment.

00:14:50:14 - 00:15:10:11
Stephen
FUSE has always been a good place to work. Nice people, a good environment, good vibe. What we needed to really do more though, was demonstrate how it's going to improve your career. Like you're going to be able to build something you're proud of here. At the same time, no one who's on the team ever wanted to remove the fun side.

00:15:10:13 - 00:15:27:05
Stephen
We get to create things. We start with a blank slate and come up with these amazing things. It's it's one of the most creative, vibrant businesses in the world and I love it. So it should be fun. We should be able to laugh, we should be able to do all these things. But it's also hard work. And so Steve, I don't think he borrowed the word from someone else,

00:15:27:05 - 00:15:42:16
Stephen
it's not actually a word, but we use the term possibilitarian. And that's, you know, someone who sees the possibility. Anyway, but we use it all the time, and it really is someone who - yeah, I'm motivated. I want to do this, and I can find a way instead of looking at all the barriers, because there's a million barriers

00:15:42:16 - 00:16:07:09
Stephen
every time we do anything, how do we find theway? And that really came into, well, if you lead by example, if they see us seeing the possibility and the opportunity, then they, you get motivated and you see it also. It's all focused on turning heads. So we do have a purpose that gives people, you know, clarity is, we are here to create great things for our team.

00:16:07:11 - 00:16:34:09
Stephen
So we often use, with our, when we're presenting to our clients, but we use it with our own team is, and it might sound simple, but it is meant to be simple, is, you know, do do great work, with great people, for great people. So the shift in that mentality was, if you'd looked at my early years of my career at the agency, I would have been fixated on do great work for clients, like, just, or just make clients happy.

00:16:34:11 - 00:16:51:22
Stephen
And the truth is, if you reverse it, and this is where I thank the team so much for opening my eyes on this, so do great work, with great people. You cannot get great work by hammering or yelling or whatever. Like you have to motivate the team to be, you want to excite the team, you want to support the team to,

00:16:51:23 - 00:17:10:07
Stephen
That's the culture that will deliver great work. And finally for great people, as clients. And the other thing we had to go through this journey was not all clients are meant for FUSE Create, and that's okay. But clients that want a partner, clients who want to sit down and work with you and build with you and have a two way dialogue.

00:17:10:09 - 00:17:30:01
Stephen
But there are clients out there who really want a partner, who want to do great work and stuff like this. There's other clients who it's starting more from a financial perspective. How can I get my advertising widgets done as fast and cheap as possible? And there's nothing wrong with that client. That's their choice. We had to look honestly at our business and say, clients have a huge impact on our culture.

00:17:30:02 - 00:17:49:13
Stephen
Our culture has a huge impact on our ability to create. So we have to make sure we're also weighing with the client's culture and how they want to work with an agency, as we look at who we hire and how we look at how we put stuff. So it's interconnected. And it's been a very healthy, you know, I always say you never stop learning.

00:17:49:15 - 00:17:58:11
Stephen
That was probably my biggest personal learning is understanding  that symbiotic relationship between the product, the team and the client.

00:17:58:13 - 00:18:19:13
Alison
It has to be incredibly motivating for the team to know that you're not just going to take any client because it's driving revenue, you're going to take a client that is a good fit, that will help them do great work and be a great team together. Now, when I think about the culture and the evolution of FUSE, what's been the role of awards in your strategy?

00:18:19:15 - 00:18:39:14
Stephen
It's key. And when I was talking about those pillars of how we structure new business, I mean, it's not the be-all end-all that awards are. It's not the only strategy we have. We have a few. There's multiple ways of doing it. But awards offer us  a few key things. Like, first of all, winning an award in this industry is incredibly motivating and exciting, and I don't ever want to underplay that.

00:18:39:14 - 00:18:57:03
Stephen
Like, it really feels good to to be recognized by peers and by, you know, leaders in the industry that the work we're working on, is, is is effective. Now, the effectiveness we all usually know, and we're only putting those ones forward. But we know when a client, when a campaign works, when it doesn't, or when it needs to be tweaked.

00:18:57:05 - 00:19:18:00
Stephen
But no, there's something about it, it's something gives us something to celebrate. It gives us something exciting to promote. But on top of that, when you look at building the brand of FUSE Create, it gives us news, it gives us buzz and attention. And so, no client has ever called you and said, show me your awards list and I'll decide if I'm going to give you work or not.

00:19:18:02 - 00:19:31:22
Stephen
It's not, clients are looking, clients are very sophisticated, what they're looking for, they want to see your credentials, they want to see the work you've done, they want to see a bunch of things. The awards are a great ittle add-on. They like it, but it's not their, they're not going to choose you because you won an award.

00:19:32:00 - 00:19:57:08
Stephen
They're going to make you, like they should, validate that you can do great things for their brand. But what it really has an impact on, besides what I've already mentioned, about the team and excitement and the recognition, is it really keeps your newsworthiness, your search rankings, like it gets you, gets you key things that helps get you on that list. And the list that we're always talking about is, are you on the call list?

00:19:57:08 - 00:20:29:08
Stephen
Or when a brand is looking to find a new partner, are you being considered? And so it feeds part of that. The difference of how we manage things compared to what I started 30 years ago, is feeding that overall engine of content and news that keeps people thinking about FUSE Create, top of mind, which is very much like we do with clients. And so, on top of that, I do have one anecdote which I thought I'd share with you, because you are the CMA, which is, we had, I believe was at the end of 2023.

00:20:29:08 - 00:20:52:07
Stephen
so not long ago, just over a year ago, we were at the CMA Awards and we had some great success with Ricola and another client. And this doesn't happen often, but I love when it does and I'll give CMA the shout out for it, is after that award night we got two phone calls within a month, both referencing the work we had done, they had seen the work we had done on one client.

00:20:52:07 - 00:21:21:19
Stephen
They said we kind of want, we like what you did there, we want that for our brand. Now that doesn't normally happen, let me be very clear. But it is a lot easier to close a new piece of business when they've called  you and said, we want that. So, so there's one example of where it actually has delivered tangible business, but most of the times it's about feeding an overall, it's part of your brand strategy and part of your brand awareness.

00:21:21:21 - 00:21:40:05
Alison
I love that story. Thank you for sharing and I'm thrilled that your CMA Award led to new clients. So congratulations! Now you've shared some examples of successful ways you've invested and built your brand. There's always very powerful learning from what didn't work as well. So if you're comfortable, I'd love you to share some examples of things that you tried

00:21:40:05 - 00:21:44:14
Alison
that, in theory, should have delivered results but in reality didn't.

00:21:44:16 - 00:22:09:12
Stephen
I think the key is to really understand that, one of my key learnings has been the difference between, and recognizing the difference between brand building and business development. And while brand building definitely supports and helps business development, I think in my early days I would just think, if we do a focused effort on business development, that's going to make our problems go away.

00:22:09:14 - 00:22:37:16
Stephen
And the reality is, is it's a lot easier to do business development when your brand is in a receptive position, so people know about it. People have heard of you, people are intrigued by you. It is a lot easier to get noticed or get a call back or to get a call in, in that situation versus, and so mistakes I made in my earlier part was, you know, bringing in a business development person who would do a traditional business development approach, which it's,  it doesn't fit.

00:22:37:16 - 00:23:04:01
Stephen
It doesn't work that way. This is a still an incredibly connected, build your brand, but build your network type industry. So I think I probably went down the path of a few, widgets or silver bullets that I thought would solve the problem with business development people without investing the time in the brand. And that's one key learning. Another would be, you know, a lot of people will talk about how you can try,

00:23:04:01 - 00:23:27:05
Stephen
it's all about managing your inbound to your website is your whole business strategy. I would say for some businesses, that makes complete sense, where you want to go out to a wide net, draw people in and you can convert a lot. And it's a great business development model. We tried it, truthfully, it's a long journey, a lot of work that got us a lot of average to 

00:23:27:05 - 00:23:57:03
Stephen
below average leads. And by scrapping that and going much more into a PR, content, thought-leadership award strategy of just focusing on the brand of FUSE Create, in the industry we're in, that we controlled and not being so fixated on who's coming to the website and all the analytics behind it. I know this is counter to half the stuff we do for our clients, but for our industry, building our name, building our team, building our profile.

00:23:57:05 - 00:24:04:17
Stephen
It was far better for us than getting fixated on a, on a digital tool to manage our business development.

00:24:04:19 - 00:24:17:13
Alison
Stephen, I know we share a real passion for the importance of culture in business. And you've talked a bit about this, but I'd love you to talk a little bit more about the role that the FUSE Create culture has played in your agency's success.

00:24:17:15 - 00:24:48:01
Stephen
And when I mentioned the, you know, do great work, with great people, for great people, it goes back to that middle zone of with great people. And none of what we've talked about today has been done by one person. It's all been done by the power of good, healthy culture. Now, and it wasn't easy. And if I look at my culture scores from seven years ago, the radical improvement, it's remarkable and amazing and makes me feel very proud.

00:24:48:03 - 00:25:08:23
Stephen
I don't think culture is as difficult as sometimes people make it out to be. And I think it comes down to classic values. You know, treat your team the way you want to be treated. I never will ever forget being an account exec with some terrible bosses and some amazing bosses and those things you feel, I would say we we try to keep egos at the door,

00:25:08:23 - 00:25:31:02
Stephen
checked at the door. I don't know, I swear it's sometimes the stuff that your mom and grandmother or parents taught you, is you bring those things forward, you can create a healthy, fun environment. And healthy fun environment doesn't mean you don't have any conflict. Conflict's normal. Good conflict, especially, like healthy creative conflict. But no, it's about listening to the team.

00:25:31:02 - 00:25:47:19
Stephen
It's about engaging with the team. We really do pay a lot of time and attention to how to build a culture, and it's not a strategy for the strategy's sake. It is a strategy, a clear strategy, because we cannot create great work without a great culture.

00:25:47:21 - 00:26:08:06
Alison
And having the clarity that you now have on what you stand for and what you want to accomplish is such an important part of building your culture and enabling people to say, you know, this is for me or this isn't for me. And the sooner that both your colleagues and potential clients realize it's for them or it's not, the better off you are.

00:26:08:08 - 00:26:34:06
Stephen
Yeah, we lean into that a lot. We're transparent about, we're a very transparent business, but we're transparent about what's working, what's not working. But we're also transparent about, we do culture surveys and the feedback's good. But, you know, for the few who aren't happy, we don't we don't actually try to fix the company, make three people happy, we're keeping the company focused on the 67 who are delighted and, or, fairly happy.

00:26:34:06 - 00:26:53:05
Stephen
Like, I can't make, not everyone is delighted. But you know, we know. We know. We can feel the buzz. We can feel the pulse. And it's the understanding that hard work can also be motivating, but constant hard work is not motivating. And how do you manage all the different levers that require for culture?

00:26:53:07 - 00:27:07:23
Alison
And you're so right that letting three people dilute the positive culture for 67 is a fool's game for sure. So from a Canadian and global perspective, what agencies do you think are shining examples of making their brand a priority?

00:27:08:01 - 00:27:30:11
Stephen
I have the, I have this amazing opportunity, as an independent agency, we are part of Worldwide Partners. It's a global network of 90 agencies, all independent from around the world, 50 countries. And we as a collective own the network versus a network owning us. In doing that, I get to meet great agencies, and I also get to see what's happening in a lot of other markets.

00:27:30:12 - 00:27:50:11
Stephen
And so there's a, so I follow a lot of agencies. And, you know, I learned from Simon Sinek many years ago, the term "worthy rivals", so really just pick some brands or some teams or some agencies out there who really motivate you and make you excited versus worry about your direct competitors in your own market. And so there's a few that I follow quite a bit. In London,

00:27:50:11 - 00:28:07:02
Stephen
I've been fascinated with Uncommon, you know, came out of nowhere a few years ago, and I think they've already sold or sold 49%, but they've you know, their approach is very different than ours. In New York, Giant Spoon, just the work they're doing. It's really motivating. They do, like us, we do a fair bit of experiential work. They do a fair bit of experiential.

00:28:07:02 - 00:28:26:20
Stephen
So I get I get motivated by what they're putting up there and how they promote themselves. And then I would say in Toronto and Canada, there's quite a bit, there's a lot of really strong, amazing independents. It's fascinating to watch and I love it. You know, everyone from Rethink to Zulu to West123.

00:28:26:20 - 00:28:47:06
Stephen
Like there's just there's a lot going on, and and that's in case where you might be competing against them. Doesn't mean I'm not, you know, they're amazing rivals. They make us strive to be better. So I like, I like following, I like to see what we're doing. I like to see what's happening. It's healthy. It's a healthy thing to look at.

00:28:47:08 - 00:29:07:09
Alison
So, Stephen, this has been a great conversation. You have an absolutely enviable and certainly a very long standing agency career. So before I let you go, I would love to close off today's discussion by having you share the top advice that you would give to an agency professional who aspires to follow in your footsteps, especially those that might have entrepreneurial ambitions.

00:29:07:11 - 00:29:39:00
Stephen
Sure. And you know, I don't take that question lightly. There's a bunch I could probably go into. I would say the biggest one, and I don't know if I was consciously as aware of it when I was young, but your personal brand and your business brand are so interconnected. And at some point along my journey, I figured out, I watched Trish Wheaton, who was my boss, and Wunderman and a couple other bosses, and I just said, wow, they're managing both their brand, which is an extension of their business brand and the agency's brand.

00:29:39:02 - 00:30:01:18
Stephen
So I think, I don't know if people always understand just how critical your brand is. And so when I look at how we've built the business, it is not my brand, it as a collective of five, six, seven, eight people's personal brands aligned with our business brand. And that means, you know, do good, be good, be out there.

00:30:01:18 - 00:30:26:23
Stephen
But, you know, get involved, get away from just the screen and go out and meet people and connect with people. And it's both enriching for your career, and your brand, but it's also good for your own personal network. And that halo effect is, it builds a brand for the overall agency. And what I've learned is that there's some people get nervous about this, leaders who get nervous because they're like, well, if they're promoting their brand, they're going to get poached.

00:30:27:03 - 00:30:47:08
Stephen
Well, that's a short view of it. If you're, if you're giving them the the autonomy to build their career, build their brand, if they're building their career with you, they should build their brand with you. You will benefit from that. And yes, people leave. That's the nature of all business. So instead, celebrate the power you as a group can do of building your personal brands.

00:30:47:10 - 00:31:06:18
Alison
That is great advice. And in a profession where we are incredibly busy, it can be very easy to defer that and not make it a priority. So thank you for the very important reminder that we all need to make our personal brands a key part of our career success, but also the businesses we represent. Stephen. Thank you,

00:31:06:18 - 00:31:08:20
Alison
it's been an absolutely wonderful conversation.

00:31:08:22 - 00:31:15:19
Stephen
Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. And great seeing amazing things at the CMA these days.

00:31:15:21 - 00:31:28:12
Presenter
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