EP38 - Leveling the Playing Field: Women's Professional Sports with Allison Sandmeyer-Graves

What opportunities can women's professional sports create? In this episode of CMA Connect, Alison Simpson, the CEO of the CMA, welcomes Allison Sandmeyer-Graves, the CEO of Canadian Women & Sport. They discuss how the momentum of women's professional sports can dismantle barriers women and girls face in society, including issues related to politics, representation on corporate boards, gender-based violence, and pay equality. They highlight the rise of professional women's sports in Canada and their impact on physical and mental health. They also cover the growing investment in women's sports leagues and teams, and the role marketers and brands play in supporting them. Allison also encourages anyone with CEO ambitions to invest in the relationships they build.

00:00:00:05 - 00:00:12:19
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast with your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson.

00:00:12:21 - 00:00:36:10
Alison
Women in professional sport are finally getting their moment, which is outstanding news for girls and women at all levels of sport. Now, while this is certainly an important and exciting progress, it's also a starting point. We have a long way to go to get to the finish line and to truly achieve equity. In today's episode, we will explore what led to the long overdue rise of professional women's sport and why it's so important.

00:00:36:12 - 00:00:57:18
Alison
We'll discuss why it's about so much more than sport, and talk about the broader societal impact that it represents. We're also speaking to the rebalancing that's underway, the opportunity the opportunity that represents for savvy brands, and how marketers can help accelerate the great momentum we currently have. Joining me today is Allison Sandmeyer-Graves, who is the CEO of Canadian Women in Sport.

00:00:57:20 - 00:01:22:12
Alison
Allison's an experienced social impact professional, who's motivated by the potential for systemic change. She also believes that we achieve the greatest outcomes when we can harness the resources of diverse sectors. Allison loves the challenge of building collaborative platforms that will drive innovative solutions, create shared value and help empower communities. That's why she's such a terrific fit for and has thrived in her current role for nine years.

00:01:22:14 - 00:01:48:05
Alison
Canadian Women in Sport, the organization that Allison leads, is dedicated to creating an equitable and inclusive Canadian sport and physical activity system that empowers girls and women as active participants and as leaders. And that's within and through sport, with a focus on systemic change, Canadian Women in Sport partners with organizations, governments and leaders to challenge the status quo and build better sport through gender equity.

00:01:48:07 - 00:01:54:08
Alison
It's a mission very close to my heart, and it's a true pleasure to welcome my namesake, Allison, to the podcast today.

00:01:54:10 - 00:01:58:09
Allison
Hello. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

00:01:58:09 - 00:02:03:21
Alison
I would love to start by having you share a bit about your organization and the very important impact that you're having.

00:02:03:23 - 00:02:24:11
Allison
I love talking about Canadian women in sport. I think for many people who are tuning in, who have experienced the power of sport in their lives, I mean, that is what our organization is truly about. Taking a sport system that for decades has done things in a certain way and frankly, served some people better than others.

00:02:24:13 - 00:02:52:11
Allison
And making it more inclusive and more equitable so that as many girls and women as possible, can access the tremendous benefits of sport. And we do this work because we believe that sport is a platform for broad social change. When you think about the individual benefits that sport brings to people's lives and how that makes them stronger in their abilities and in the opportunities afforded to them.

00:02:52:13 - 00:03:34:05
Allison
When you think about sport as a platform for leadership and the need for more women in all forms of leadership in our society, that is what really motivates us. That's what gets us excited. The idea of using sport as a vehicle for for bigger change for women and girls, and we do that by working within the system itself. Making the sport system more inclusive, more equitable, not fixing the girls, not fixing the women, but really looking at how can we take the way that sport is delivered, the way it's governed, the policies, the practices, the culture, and create more fairness so that girls and women are welcomed in, are supported and engaged to be part

00:03:34:05 - 00:03:42:06
Allison
of this and are able to thrive, as we say, in sport, but also well beyond through sport.

00:03:42:07 - 00:04:10:02
Alison
It's such an important mandate and I know from our earlier conversations, we both have personally benefited from being involved in sport early in our lives and it led to so many great professional and personal experiences that really made us the leaders we are today. So I am so passionate about the mission of your organization and the important role that you're playing for future generations, as well as helping to nurture truly professional athletes.

00:04:10:02 - 00:04:13:10
Allison
Not a role that I ever aspired to, but without sport

00:04:13:10 - 00:04:22:12
Alison
I truly wouldn't be the person or the leader that I am today. So I want more of Canadians and Canadian women and girls in particular, to be able to benefit from that.

00:04:22:14 - 00:04:53:03
Allison
Absolutely. You know, I have the great privilege of encountering so many Olympians and Paralympians. And so I always feel, like I need to say, I'm a very average athlete. But, but I think what's great about sport is that you can you can take it as far as your interests and your abilities can take you. And in Canada, that increasingly means to a livelihood, to a professional livelihood, as an athlete.

00:04:53:05 - 00:05:13:07
Allison
But you you don't need to aspire to that. And you don't need to achieve at those levels to get all of these benefits, to get the physical health benefits, the mental health benefits, the resiliency, the, the ability to set goals and strive towards them, to work as a team. There's, you know, so much that can come from sport.

00:05:13:09 - 00:05:36:20
Allison
There's so much at stake, I would say, for women and girls, in our society to access these sorts of things and, I, I want the whole, the whole pyramid, if you will, all the way from professional right down to the grassroots. But it's really about getting as many Canadian women and girls playing and experiencing this as possible.

00:05:36:20 - 00:05:40:06
Allison
And the whole ecosystem has to work together to create that.

00:05:40:08 - 00:05:49:05
Alison
Absolutely. Now, building on that, what led you to join the organization nine years ago, I think it was 35 years old at the time, and how has it evolved under your leadership?

00:05:49:07 - 00:06:18:10
Allison
I was, so intrigued by by the mission, by the mandate. You know, we've already spoken about, you know, my personal experiences of the power of sport. I'm a social impact person. So my career has been in the nonprofit space. I really like being part of contributing to big movements that help to, this is going to sound so corny, but, like, make a better world, right?

00:06:18:10 - 00:06:52:15
Allison
I want to contribute to communities and societies and the sort of change that, I want to see and the sort of the society that I want to live in. So that's what really motivates me. I think at the time it was known as CAWS, some people who are tuning in may know it as that, now Canadian Women in Sport, you know, had been around for three and a half decades and it had such, such a wonderful reputation for really credible work, for strong advocacy,

00:06:52:17 - 00:07:24:23
Allison
great, just was, was a wonderful resource within the sport system for those who wanted to be part of making a better sports system and unlocking the potential therein. At the same time, big mandate, you know, all sport, physical activity, all of Canada, all levels, very little capacity. And so, it was a wonderful challenge to step into as a leader to say, okay, there's something really great here.

00:07:24:23 - 00:07:50:19
Allison
There's this wonderful set of assets. But how can we, how can we expand the impact? How can we take it further? Obviously a lot of pressure. A lot of people had done a lot of work to get it to that point, and I felt a big responsibility in stepping into that role, to to really take their vision for this organization and the sport system and the impact that they wanted to have and steward it forward.

00:07:50:21 - 00:08:20:07
Allison
And the beautiful thing is, is that, as I think I would say, luck would have it, you know, there was government interest and investment in the women's movement and in women's sport that was just around the corner. And some really wonderful things happening around. And so we've been part of building this big movement for women's sport in the country, but also joined by so many others who've been so essential to this organization's growth and development and the movement as a whole.

00:08:20:09 - 00:08:39:21
Alison
That's amazing. And if making the world a better place is corny, then let's embrace corny. We should all have that as one of our core purposes in life. Now, you've clearly accomplished a lot. And this might be a tough question because of everything that you've done, but what accomplishments are you most proud of?

00:08:39:23 - 00:09:16:04
Allison
I was giving this some thought and I think the thing that really stands out most for me is I'm really proud of what this organization stands for and what it means to people. Because I get to be out at events and and different things in the industry, I often have the opportunity to hear directly from, people of all genders who want to talk to me about what this organization means to them, and how their interactions with this organization have been a positive and uplifting thing for them and for the people that they work with.

00:09:16:06 - 00:09:36:19
Allison
I get lots of wonderful feedback, and that that makes me feel really proud of the work that we're doing. That tells me that we're doing the right work, with the right quality as well. And we do that work with hundreds of sport organizations and thousands of leaders in the system every year. It's really focused on education.

00:09:36:23 - 00:09:55:05
Allison
So making sure that they they have the knowledge and the awareness, of the issues, also the best practices and solutions, what they can do to make things better for the girls and women in their communities or their sport. And then we help them to take action. So we help them see that through into real change.

00:09:55:07 - 00:10:21:10
Allison
And it's really big things and it's really small things. Sometimes people just want to talk about the fact that they're having totally different conversations that they were having before they worked with us, and sometimes they say we've developed totally new programs, or we've completely changed our policies, or we've got more girls participating than ever before, thanks to these these changes that we've made. That feedback is always, always lovely.

00:10:21:10 - 00:10:39:21
Allison
Who doesn't want to get positive feedback about something that they work so hard at and where, you know, that's so connected to your values? But it really tells me that we're on the right track and that what we do matters, which is why we do this. It's it's not enough to just get up and do well-intentioned work every day.

00:10:39:21 - 00:11:03:16
Allison
You want to know that it's actually making the change that you want it to make. More recently, with the release of the Rally Report, which is a signature research paper that we put out, every two years, once again, I saw that we were the catalyst for a big national conversation about girls and sport and the importance of it, and what we can do to continue to push this forward.

00:11:03:18 - 00:11:29:19
Allison
And what's really exciting is that there's a new element to the conversation now, which is professional sports. And what impact that is going to have on what's happening right at the grassroots. So I'm very optimistic about this organization, certainly. But but the women's sport movement and what it's going to represent for business and for society.

00:11:29:21 - 00:11:39:22
Alison
So building on the recently released Rally Report, you talked about the professional sports and how that's relatively new for sure to our country. Were there

00:11:41:05 - 00:11:46:08
Alison
other dramatic changes or things that had surprised you from the previous report two years ago?

00:11:46:10 - 00:12:13:21
Allison
One of the things that we're most excited to see is what looks like an increase in girls regularly participating in sport and physical activity. Those are hard numbers to move, if I'm being honest. I mean, this is a big country. It's really complex. There's so many variables that can enable or limit girls in their participation individually and then en masse.

00:12:13:23 - 00:12:46:22
Allison
And so to see that number shift was thrilling, frankly, because it's a wonderful indicator that, you know, the government investment and the investment by our sport organizations, the leaders of all kinds, all across this country, by parents, by media, by brands. Like everybody is starting to pull in the same direction. And it seems to be working. So what we are really committed to, and we're inviting others to join in with us, is let's make this a trend, right?

00:12:46:22 - 00:13:07:10
Allison
Anybody who works with data knows that there can be a blip, right? And it can go up. But unless we continue to bring attention, unless we continue to push it to that tipping point, there's always a chance that that we could see a reversal or a decline. So we want to see this as a trend really moving as ever upwards.

00:13:07:12 - 00:13:28:12
Allison
The good news also is that the gap between girls and boys is or is closing in that respect. But as I am, I'm saying these days, you know, 68% of boys playing is shouldn't be the ceiling. Like that's not the goal. That's too low too. So we want to work to 100% of girls participating in quality sport regularly.

00:13:28:14 - 00:13:36:09
Allison
That I think will be a total game changer for our society. And that is the sort of change that I want to be part of.

00:13:36:11 - 00:13:49:19
Alison
Absolutely. And you made my month by sharing that stat, the fact that we actually have positive progress and I fully support what can we do to make it a trend, so on a personal level, honestly, anything I can do to support, sign me up.

00:13:49:21 - 00:14:14:13
Allison
That sounds good. It really is. Oh, this this is going to be super cliche, but it is totally a team sport because it is so big. It is so complex, and I know that that can really intimidate people. I know that that can make it seem, maybe hopeless at times. But we talk to people who are facility managers,

00:14:14:13 - 00:14:38:17
Allison
we talk to people who are entering in their careers. We talk to, you know, the people who are at the very top of their careers. Every one of them has a sphere of influence. And what we, I would say more than hope, what we call on everybody to do with that sphere of influence is to look around and see what, how can I use that to make things more equitable, to make things more welcoming and inclusive?

00:14:38:17 - 00:14:48:07
Allison
Whether it's for one girl, could be a relative, or many girls, it's all part of creating the change.

00:14:48:09 - 00:15:08:01
Alison
Absolutely. Now, we've talked a bit about, while it's certainly about sport, it is about so much more. And you've shared some of that broader impact. But I'd love you to go into a bit more detail on the broader impact and crucial role that girls and women in sport can benefit from. 

00:15:08:03 - 00:15:27:07
Allison
You know, everyone benefits from, I'm going to I'm going to put the qualifier that it's got to be quality and inclusive sport, safe sport, everyone can benefit from that. We know that. Absolutely. This isn't just a conversation about girls in that respect. But I, I mentioned the fact that, you know, there's there's a lot at stake for girls and women.

00:15:27:09 - 00:15:57:17
Allison
We've made progress, no doubt, in our society when it comes to gender equality. But, we know that there are significant gaps or significant distance yet to close when it comes to women in politics, women on corporate boards or in the C-suites. When it comes to, things like gender- based violence, you know, women are still up against many, many, many barriers in our society.

00:15:57:17 - 00:16:40:17
Allison
Pay equity would be another one. And, you know, as we see so clearly, the progress that we've achieved can also be undone, right? It's not it's not linear and it's never assured. And so there is a lot at stake for women and girls always in our society. And sport is just such a powerful tool, I would say, on an individual and a collective basis for really making, making progress really closing those gaps. On an individual basis,

00:16:40:17 - 00:17:06:06
Allison
as, as I mentioned, you know, it helps to make the individual stronger, right? We know that girls who play sport, have stronger mental health, which I know is a concern for so many right now. We know that it makes them physically healthy in myriad ways that benefit them, not just right now while they're young, but serve them well throughout the lifespan.

00:17:06:07 - 00:17:36:07
Allison
But then it's also that platform for leadership, for them to develop and practice those skills in a supported way that serve them well at school. It's connected to educational attainment. This serves them well in their careers. It's connected to higher wages. And of course, you know, we all love the statistics. The statistic of 94% of C-suite execs, have sport in their background and cite sport as an important influence and support for them.

00:17:36:09 - 00:18:01:10
Allison
So on an individual basis, it's looking pretty good. But then collectively, when you think about all of these girls entering into adulthood with all of this scaffolding, we can create such stronger families, stronger communities, you know, have them achieve and contribute in ways that, you know, to this point, we haven't been able to or haven't been invited to over the years.

00:18:01:10 - 00:18:26:14
Allison
So, but then it also challenges a lot of gender norms. You can't watch a rugby game and then think that women can't be firefighters. So there's still all these limiters on women's potential. And sport really helps to break those sorts of things down. So it's it's about sport. It's about it's about people playing. It's about people having fun.

00:18:26:16 - 00:18:34:00
Allison
But it's also about so much more than that. And that,that's my why and that's the organization's why.

00:18:34:01 - 00:18:50:09
Alison
That's amazing. And you you mentioned earlier you have people that are sharing their personal stories and reaching out to you on a regular basis. And that's and part of the incredibly fulfilling is the leader of the organization to hear, do you have a favourite story or someone that reached out recently to share their personal anecdote?

00:18:50:11 - 00:19:21:12
Allison
You know, the one one that comes to mind is, which wasn't shared with me personally, but one story that comes to mind is just the stories that we get back from, from parents, actually, because we work with, we work with the sport organizations and the sport leaders in many cases, like really behind the scenes, helping them to be the best that they can possibly be for the girls that they are trying to reach and serve.

00:19:21:14 - 00:19:42:11
Allison
We do a granting program with some funding from the Government of Ontario here in Canada, and it provides both funds to the organizations, plus also training, because sometimes you get money, but in order to use that money really, really well, you need a little more. You need a little more training on, how do you really create environments that are going to work for girls?

00:19:42:11 - 00:20:12:07
Allison
How do you consult girls so that we're not making assumptions about what we think they might like, but we're actually hearing it directly from them and then they implement their ideas, with this support. And in gathering feedback from the parents of the girls in their programs, there have there's been stories coming back about, you know, my daughter wasn't sure that she was going to keep playing sport, but the opportunity to be part of this program really changed her mind.

00:20:12:09 - 00:20:36:12
Allison
Or, you know, it's just the little things like, you know, this is the best program that I've ever been part of. It's not our program, but we were helping them behind the scenes to be the best that they can be. And it's not just that girl that's going to benefit, it's every girl that walks through their doors for years to come that is going to benefit.

00:20:36:12 - 00:21:05:21
Allison
And for me, that's the power of the systems change work. There's absolutely a need to work with the individual girls and empower girls and women one on one and and as groups. But our super power is that systems work. And what I hope this does, you know, if we do our job well and if others do their job well, you know, we won't need to be here and we won't still be having these same conversations in ten, 20, 30 years.

00:21:05:21 - 00:21:25:10
Allison
And that means that girls are being invited into these spaces and having an experience that is so compelling and so enriching for them that they come back week after week, year after year. And that is ultimately how we get to that big goal that we're shooting for.

00:21:25:12 - 00:21:49:14
Alison
It's a such an important and impressive superpower, and being able to customize the experience and provide that guidance and support to the different sporting organizations so that they can get ahead of the reasons why girls at different stages in life consider opting out is so important. Are there a couple of typical reasons that girls opt out that you could share with our listeners today.

00:21:49:16 - 00:22:16:21
Allison
Oh yes. Sadly, there are many reasons. But as I like to say, to put a positive spin on that. It means that there's so many opportunities to make an impact and to to be part of, you know, making that change, using whatever you're great at or whatever your influence is. Girls tell us that the, that sport doesn't feel like it was designed for them.

00:22:16:23 - 00:22:39:08
Allison
And, often that can be really subtle. And at times it can be really overt. And so, but what that means, I can give you examples, like, for instance, the overt is that they get they don't get their own equipment, they get the hand-me-down equipment from the boys team when that boys team gets the new stuff.

00:22:39:10 - 00:23:06:03
Allison
And so they're getting stuff that's like used, which is, you know, fine. The world, the sport world goes round on used equipment. But it doesn't fit them. It wasn't made for them. And by comparison, it feels like they're really very second class citizens. So those are some of the more overt ones. Other ones are just, I don't know, something about this program just doesn't doesn't work for me.

00:23:06:05 - 00:23:27:23
Allison
It doesn't really meet my needs or meet my interests. And that can be much more intangible, I think, for coaches and program leaders to really know what to do with that. And so our advice is always to talk to the girls. There's interesting research that talks about just some of the subtle differences and of course this is generalizing.

00:23:27:23 - 00:23:55:20
Allison
There's going to be people of all genders who identify across across these different modes. But for girls in a sport environment, you're going to get the best from them. When you create that social safety, you give them an opportunity to talk to one another, to build friendships, and rebuild that connection at the start of every practice. And then they will have what they need to go and put themselves out there and try hard

00:23:55:22 - 00:24:23:15
Allison
and achieve. For boys, the, the research shows that they don't need that so much. In fact, they're going to get that social connection by showing up, trying hard and achieving. The social comes through that, whereas girls need it first. So if you imagine that you're a coach, who's ,traditionally, you know, coached boys and you're just used to them showing up, starting the practice, let's go get get on with it.

00:24:23:17 - 00:24:46:12
Allison
You know, you're used to that being your your mode. And then you've got these girls who just won't stop talking and get down to the practice. I've had that, I've had a coach say I keep making the girls cry. I don't know why. I don't understand why it takes them 15 minutes to settle down and start doing things like, actually, there's great research and great insight that that informs that.

00:24:46:14 - 00:25:18:22
Allison
So when girls say, I don't know, this just doesn't feel like it was totally made for me. It can reflect all of these different sorts of things. And what they want is for the people who are leading sport to learn more about them, to read the research, to do the training, to put in the effort, to really make sure that what they're building for the girls really has the girls at the centre of it, as opposed to taking a model and an approach that works for boys and kind of plunking it on to girls and hoping that it works.

00:25:19:00 - 00:25:32:22
Alison
Those are super helpful examples. Thank you very much. Now I want to switch gears to more professional sports and ask for your input on, what do you think led to the overdue rising spotlight on professional women in sport?

00:25:33:00 - 00:26:04:10
Allison
I would say that there are, two things that, that I see. One is professional women's sport has been growing in other countries that Canada tends to look to around the world for a while now. And so there have been some good things happening there, and some proof of concept and some real successes. Whether we look south to the U.S. or across Europe, even in Australia, frankly, Canada was a little behind.

00:26:04:12 - 00:26:33:07
Allison
So we had the opportunity to see others who are going ahead of us and saying like, oh, what's happening over there? Maybe there's some potential for, through the business lens. And then we had our soccer team and our hockey teams coming off of back to back gold medals at the Olympics and being relatively vocal about the fact that there's no development pathway, including that professional, that opportunity to play here in Canada with their teammates year in, year out.

00:26:33:07 - 00:26:58:17
Allison
They're scattered to the four winds, you know, in between these Olympic cycles, and that's putting Canada at a real disadvantage. So yes, we are performing and winning at the top of our game. But you know, we don't actually have what we need in our own country to consistently deliver that. People were ready to hear it in a way that I don't think they were ready to hear it before.

00:26:58:17 - 00:27:39:00
Allison
And it wasn't long before we just really heard these, these sort of rumours that conversations were happening in boardrooms and, and, you know, the proverbial behind closed doors about, hey, what what could this look like in Canada? You know, what could our role be in that? Is there a real opportunity here? Of course. Then you had folks like Diana Matheson and Jayna Hefford and others who are working so diligently, also, you know, quite quietly for a while to start up the teams and leagues that investors could get behind, and really push forward. Long overdue in Canada,

00:27:39:00 - 00:27:55:09
Allison
But, as our first work with BCG and Canadian Tire showed in the business case, a real business opportunity here in Canada. And I think people are really starting to figure that out.

00:27:55:11 - 00:28:10:13
Alison
Now, we we talked earlier about there are core differences for girls and women in non-professional sport. So I'd love to hear you talk a bit about how and why is the reality different for professional women versus professional male athletes?

00:28:10:18 - 00:28:39:16
Allison
I would say at an athlete level, there's been some great work done on this, by groups like RBC and Wasserman really looking at pay equity as a consideration and what that means for the athletes. If they can't, you know, get that from just showing up and doing their job they have to book as many sponsorships as they can in order to, to really make that livelihood make sense.

00:28:39:18 - 00:29:18:00
Allison
So there is also just such an awareness, that we see really around the world, that women's professional sports in many respects is still a start up and those athletes are essential partners in the success of those business enterprises. And so they are showing up with so much intention and so invested in the success of, of these teams and leagues, and they know how to work with brands to make that happen.

00:29:18:00 - 00:29:48:05
Allison
They know that brands are essential. They know that sponsorship is essential for them as individuals and for the success of their team's leagues. And so they are engaged. They are active on social media. They are putting in the work, they are meeting the fans, they are doing. They are doing all the things that they can do to, you know, be personally or individually successful and collectively successful in this professional space.

00:29:48:07 - 00:30:23:23
Allison
And I wouldn't say that male athletes don't do this or don't need to do this, but certainly there are different dynamics at play. And the consistent message that we hear is that, yeah, the women, the women athletes show up, they're available, they're accessible. And what's really exciting is that the fans value them so much. When we did our fan study with, again, IMI and and you know, Canadian Tire, they're backing us and so many others in the space.

00:30:24:01 - 00:30:53:07
Allison
Fans said they are so interested in these athletes. They see them as role models. They're interested in their lives. They want to know more about them. And they see them as equally as athletic, equally as strong and inspiring as male athletes. But they also see that women's sport is growing. It's a place of shared values, you know, things that I think brands really want to be part of.

00:30:53:09 - 00:31:07:01
Alison
And you highlighted there's a very powerful business case as well. So building on that, the rebalancing between sponsorship and investing in women's sport is finally starting. How do you envision that will change the sporting world and the broader world?

00:31:07:03 - 00:31:36:00
Allison
The rebalancing is, is a good way to put it, because of course, in the absence of much women's professional sport in Canada, other than, some great tournaments or events, but not having teams and leagues playing consistently month in, month out, year in, year out in this market and in markets all across Canada. You know, there just there hasn't been a lot of places for brands to play.

00:31:36:02 - 00:32:17:04
Allison
And so, and and again, you know, when your top athletes, show up at the Olympics but are otherwise often overseas playing in other markets, also a bit limiting. But truly there has also been a choice not to invest in women's sports and in women athletes to the same degree that that brands have invested in men. I think that's been fueled by a lot of myths about the value that these athletes, and that these teams and leagues can return to, to marketers and, and the objectives that they hold and that they're responsible for, you know, those are real.

00:32:17:04 - 00:32:55:13
Allison
There's a lot of pressure on that. The least risky thing to do is to invest in something that's been around for decades, that has all of this, you know, this proven return. But you're going to pay a lot more for that. And so there's an opportunity right now and, and, you know, we're seeing again, in other markets that are a little ahead of us, but we're seeing right now the business case, because it is a business decision, of investing in women's professional sport is there. It's going to require though different things from marketers than, it may require to invest in some of those traditional properties.

00:32:55:15 - 00:33:27:11
Allison
It's gonna require a little more patience. It's going to require, probably a bit more, leaning in, in partnership, collaborating to really build something creative, as opposed to capitalizing on something that's existed for a long time. But as I say, you're going to get in at a lower price point and you're going to get to shape it into what it could be, and you're going to find fans who come with so much passion.

00:33:27:11 - 00:33:52:03
Allison
If anybody's been to a PWHL game, there's no doubt, like they're just cheering for both teams, they're just cheering for everything, right? Like they're just, they're there because it matters to them. They're there because they care about women, about women's sports. They're there because the product is fantastic and they want to be part of it. You know, they're there because they want to take their children to these sorts of things.

00:33:52:05 - 00:34:22:20
Allison
So the the great rebalancing has begun. And what it represents is, not just more dollars flowing into women's sports, and creating a pathway and role models for, for girls to follow. But it's going to create value and respect for women's sport as well, when brands are investing in it and also celebrating it, it's going to shift the culture.

00:34:22:21 - 00:35:03:06
Allison
In other words, it's going to create, more encouragement and support and girls still need that. They still need to be told that this is important for them, too, because frankly, they get a lot of messages to the contrary. So I'm really encouraged by what I've seen so far. I'm excited about where this can go, and I am absolutely, adamant about the powerful role that brands are going to play in this, but it means bringing, coming with the right intention too and doing it in the right way.

00:35:03:07 - 00:35:27:05
Alison
But will also enable girls to dream bigger. They can see a future for themselves that didn't exist even two short years ago. The other thing I love about it is professional women's sports and teams open up sponsorship, sporting sponsorship opportunities for non-traditional brands and businesses that wouldn't have had the opportunity thereregardless. So there is the great potential there too. 

00:35:27:05 - 00:35:55:00
Allison
Definitely. And I think that speaks to, again, what women's sport represents. And women, it is not just women who are fans of women's sports. Our research shows it's actually majority men. So like, fans of women's sports are fans of sport. You're going to find all genders there. But certainly to traditionally maybe, brands that are more associated with, women as an audience, women as a consumer,

00:35:55:02 - 00:35:59:13
Allison
they're absolutely going to feel an affinity for women's professional sport.

00:35:59:15 - 00:36:06:17
Alison
Absolutely. So how can the marketers that have tuned in today help accelerate this really important rebalancing that's already started?

00:36:06:19 - 00:36:30:13
Allison
Okay. So in some really great ways. One is if you're not already looking at women's professional sport, and I would just say women's sport generally because there are opportunities to play at many different points in the pathway. And so if professional isn't quite the right fit for you and your objectives and your brand, there's lots there are lots of places to play in the women's sport landscape.

00:36:30:15 - 00:36:49:23
Allison
But if you have if you're not looking at it, start looking at it because the opportunity is there. There's some first mover advantage in many respects. And, an opportunity, as I said, to both shape it but also capitalize on it as it grows. Because it is growing. We did a fan study with research, from a year ago.

00:36:49:23 - 00:37:14:01
Allison
If we took it again now, it look totally different. So, and in doing so, I think it, it requires us to challenge some of the assumptions that we've long held about women's sport. Well, nobody will watch that. Well, nobody's actually going to buy the merch. Well, you know, we we can put a lot of stories out there, but I would argue if they were ever true, they're certainly not true anymore.

00:37:14:03 - 00:37:47:00
Allison
And so that may also involve convincing the people inside your organization. We know that metrics are so important for marketers. The data, data is what you're, what helps you make the best decisions that you can make. It's going to look different in the women's side than it has in the men's side. And so a willingness to look at return on objectives to really understand what type of consumer you're looking for, how women's sport can actually deliver that differently than men's sport, but in a complementary way,

00:37:47:02 - 00:38:07:15
Allison
if you're already invested in this space. All of these sorts of things are really going to help, certainly move the needle for women's sport to have more brands showing up in this space. But I would expect that it would also return a ton of value to the bottom line of the companies investing in them.

00:38:07:17 - 00:38:32:03
Alison
Now, I know you mentioned Canadian Tire and they're a great example of an early adopter and really investing in significant ways, they made a commitment to take 50% of their dollars and invest it in supporting girls and women in sport. I'd love you to share some other examples who are really embracing that first mover advantage and the opportunity. 

00:38:32:05 - 00:38:56:08
Allison
We're seeing, like if I think about the Northern Super League, for instance, I referenced Diana Matheson. So we've got this start up domestic women's professional soccer league in Canada. Six markets across Canada, have I got that right, 6 or 8? It might be eight, and untested. Right. You know, this is, this is new. This is we've seen a new one start up on the men's side.

00:38:56:08 - 00:39:28:14
Allison
But again, women's sport is going to play differently. So of course Canadian Tire was in there, but so is Air Canada. And so is Scotiabank. And these are companies that have an investment in sport, that obviously care deeply about Canadian communities and see the opportunity to signal their interest and their values, aligned with what Canadians value. Canadians love women's sport.

00:39:28:16 - 00:39:48:20
Allison
23.5 million Canadians say they're fans of women's sport. There's a huge market there for brands that are willing to step into a space that maybe feels a little unknown, a little untested. But to show up and to say, how can we help be part of building this?

00:39:48:22 - 00:40:02:22
Alison
And on the non-traditional side, I know Sephora recently made a fairly big announcement as well. So it's a great example of a non-traditional sports sponsorship brand seizing an opportunity, and really help benefit their business as a result of it.

00:40:03:00 - 00:40:27:06
Allison
Absolutely. You know, there's been a lot of talk, of course, with the first PWHL season about Barbie, which was, you know, maybe not someone that was like, as they say, not on the bingo card. I also just saw, you know, Bravado is, a new sponsor of women's professional sports here. And, you know, they make women's bras and they're not necessarily associated with with sport either.

00:40:27:07 - 00:40:59:23
Allison
And so there's, it's kind of opening the tent if you will, and creating opportunities for brands that haven't traditionally thought of sports as a place for them to play. But when you consider again, it's it's not just sport and it's not just your traditional audience of sport, but again, represents so much more, it opens up new ways to connect these brands together, and to reach perhaps new audiences.

00:41:00:01 - 00:41:24:07
Alison
So, Allison, you have such an enviable career. And as a female CEO, you're also still too much of a rarity. So I know that we've got a lot of listeners who would love to benefit from your knowledge base. So before I let you go, I know you've got a busy schedule, but before I let you go, I'd love to close off our discussion by having you share the top piece of advice that you'd give to our audience who aspire to follow in your footsteps, especially those with CEO ambitions.

00:41:25:15 - 00:41:53:06
Allison
I appreciate the question. It's always fun to reflect on what sorts of things made a difference for you, and a reminder to keep leaning in on those. And I would say that for me, relationships have just been such a difference maker. It is, as I as I made the move from being, a director, so a leader in a nonprofit into the top role of CEO,

00:41:54:01 - 00:42:15:10
Allison
and frankly, involved a lot of learning for me. It was a real growth moment. What I really relied on was those relationships, the relationships I already had, people I knew I could count on, who would give me good advice, who I could be vulnerable with when I was feeling really unsure of myself. Who could round out my skill set?

00:42:15:10 - 00:42:39:12
Allison
Because as a CEO, you're going to be really good at some things and less good at other things. And so having people in your circle that you can count on, to help, to help you navigate some of that can be really valuable. But it was also building new relationships, being curious about people, you know, showing interest in them, learning about what's important to them.

00:42:39:12 - 00:43:07:04
Allison
My job is influencing other people. And so I need to know what's important to them and what they care about. And then those translated into into this big network of people again, who then became more of those people that I could call when I need a hand or ask questions to get perspective from, just look beyond my own world view and see the world, or the problem that I was trying to tackle in a new light.

00:43:07:04 - 00:43:16:17
Allison
Relationships have served me very well and I would encourage anyone with CEO ambitions to invest in them.

00:43:16:19 - 00:43:37:22
Alison
That is absolutely outstanding advice and it's also advice that, regardless of how junior you are or how early you are in your career, that's advice that everyone of our listeners can and should start actioning today. So I really appreciate you sharing it and I really have enjoyed our conversation. I knew the time would fly by and I've thoroughly loved having you on our podcast today.

00:43:37:22 - 00:43:39:16
Alison
So Allison, thank you very much.

00:43:39:18 - 00:43:46:10
Allison
Well, thank you for asking such wonderful questions and allowing me to talk about something I'm clearly very passionate about.

00:43:46:12 - 00:43:54:08
Alison
Well, I share your passion. So here's to keeping the great positive momentum, accelerating it in the months and years ahead.

00:43:54:10 - 00:44:01:09
Allison
Thanks so much, Alison.

00:44:01:11 - 00:44:14:00
Presenter
Thanks for joining us. Be sure to visit the CMA.ca and sign up for your free My CMA account. It's a great way to stay connected and benefit from the latest marketing thought leadership, news, and industry trends.