EP39 - The Power of Direct Mail with Danielle Doiron and Marc Cooper

Is direct mail outdated? In this episode of CMA Connect, the CEO of the CMA, Alison Simpson, welcomes Danielle Doiron, General Manager of Marketing at Canada Post and Marc Cooper, President of Junction 59. Their discussion explores how direct mail has evolved and is thriving in today's digital-dominated marketing landscape. They provide insights on leveraging direct mail and share career advice for aspiring marketing professionals, emphasizing the importance of curiosity and deep business understanding.

00:00:01:18 - 00:00:24:15
Presenter
Welcome to CMA Connect, Canada's marketing podcast, where industry experts discuss how marketers must manage the tectonic shifts that will change how brands and businesses are built for tomorrow, while also delivering on today's business needs. With your host CMA CEO, Alison Simpson.

00:00:24:17 - 00:00:48:06
Alison
Welcome to today's episode of CMA Connect, where we will be diving into the evolving world of direct mail and modern marketing and brand building. In a world where digital platforms are continually expanding, you may be a bit surprised to learn that direct mail isn't just surviving, it's actually thriving. This episode will explore how direct mail complements digital strategies to deliver impactful results and strengthen brand connections.

00:00:48:08 - 00:01:10:12
Alison
Joining me today are two marketing leaders representing both the marketer and the agency perspectives. First, I'm very happy to welcome Danielle Doiron, the General Manager of Marketing at Canada Post. Over the last 22 years, Danielle's excelled at putting customers first, innovating and leading marketing and business initiatives that deliver really strong results. Joining us today is also Marc Cooper, the President of Junction 59.

00:01:10:14 - 00:01:32:22
Alison
Marc has extensive experience in creating award-winning campaigns for sectors that are as diverse as financial services, telco and a wide range of small businesses. As a leader at Junction 59, Marc has guided digital transformations and mentored emerging talent focused on delivering the best outcome for clients. So together, we're going to discuss how direct mail can enhance both branding and sales efforts.

00:01:33:00 - 00:01:40:20
Alison
We're going to share some successful case studies, and we're also going to do a little bit of myth-busting around traditional marketing channels. So welcome, Danielle and Marc.

00:01:40:22 - 00:01:43:12
Danielle
Hi Alison.

March
Thank you for having us.

00:01:43:14 - 00:01:52:15
Alison
So I'd love to kick off our conversation by asking the question, why should brand and performance marketers reconsider direct mail in the digital age?

00:01:52:17 - 00:02:16:10
Danielle
Well, DM has been around for a long time. I think we're, we're all aware of that. And as new media opportunities are continually introduced, sometimes we can forget how the power and the impact that that direct mail can, can have. Direct mail just engages differently. And there's, there's a lot of proof that it doesn't just grab attention, it actually sticks with people.

00:02:16:12 - 00:02:48:05
Danielle
DM and the physical aspect of direct mail allows a brand to engage with, you know, a consumer or a customer in a pretty intimate way. But its power doesn't stop there, it it actually, its power also lies in its, in its ability to drive action or drive response to a call to action. If you think about a beautifully designed catalogue that's made its way into the home, it's sitting on a coffee table and think about how it, you know, it helps the brand tell a compelling story.

00:02:48:05 - 00:03:09:09
Danielle
Perhaps it helps to introduce, you know, a collection or a product. You know, it tempts the consumer to spend a bit of time, maybe flip through. And I also think it does a really strong job of, of inspiring someone to take action or maybe engage in, in the shopping experience. It's got staying power. It drives brand awareness.

00:03:09:09 - 00:03:36:14
Danielle
And if done right and embedded with the right response mechanisms, it can even encourage that shopping experience to continue into a digital environment or a store environment. We spend a lot of time studying the impact of direct mail, and we know that neuroscience tells us that the brain processes direct mail 20% faster than, digital advertising, and it also retains it, which means it gives,

00:03:36:14 - 00:04:11:19
Danielle
you know, direct mail has a competitive advantage as it relates to driving emotional engagement and recall. And it gives marketers a competitive advantage and an ability to stand out in what can be a really cluttered marketing landscape sometimes. A great example of that would be actually J.Crew. So they had reintroduced their iconic catalog and engaged, you know, their, their customers and consumers in sort of that nostalgic experience and, and flipping through the pages of that J.Crew catalog and having a brand experience with it.

00:04:11:21 - 00:04:35:10
Danielle
But what they did, which is really brilliant, is they, they did embed some of those response mechanisms. You know, they drove to, they used QR codes, you know, to drive to a digital environment. They had personalized, interactive, you know, elements to that catalogue. And it succeeded in helping to drive, you know, engagement from the catalogue or the or the the DM experience into the store or the digital experience.

00:04:35:10 - 00:05:02:20
Danielle
And I have to tell you from a personal standpoint, as a deep lover of J.Crew, who is still mourning the loss of of our retail stores in Canada, that brand catalogue has become a brand lifeline, actually for me. It is, you know, it's the closest thing to the, you know, the J.Crew experience shopping experience, you know, that I have now and it has maintained my brand affinity and connection to that, to that particular brand.

00:05:02:21 - 00:05:11:12
Danielle
So any time I'm traveling anywhere or I'm in close proximity to a J.Crew location, it inspires me to make sure that it is part of my stop.

00:05:11:14 - 00:05:44:00
Marc
And you know, what's really interesting is that as much as we love that physical connection and feeling it and having that emotional connection to DM, direct mail also delivers to the bottom line. It delivers as much as a 29% ROI on average, which is comparable, I think, to paid search and actually outperforms online display ads. So when you integrate that direct mail with digital campaigns, you actually can even boost the response rate higher, by as much as 63%.

00:05:44:02 - 00:05:55:03
Marc
So pairing direct mail with digital tools creates that seamless journey from the mailbox to online experiences, really amplifying the impact across all the channels that you touch.

00:05:55:05 - 00:06:31:20
Alison
I love the stats, and I really love the case study, as well as the memory glue of direct mail over digital is incredibly powerful. All of us are in the roles we're in to drive business results, so a 29% ROI absolutely gets my attention. And I know we'll get our listeners attention as well. And then building on your J.Crew story, when I was the CMO at Holt Renfrew, the catalog that we did each year to our most top customers, we were able to create such a luxurious experience for them that absolutely resonated and drove both online and in-store business and allowed them to dream.

00:06:31:20 - 00:06:54:23
Alison
So absolutely can relate personally and in previous roles to the power of direct mail. So I'll take us a little bit in a different direction. Marketers really need to build their brands, and they also need to be driving very strong business outcomes. And let's be honest, that's not easy. So I'd love to hear how direct mail can effectively build a brand while also driving performance marketing outcomes.

00:06:55:01 - 00:07:16:09
Danielle
Direct mail is actually unique because it doesn't, it doesn't require you to choose between, you know, leveraging it to build brand or leveraging it to drive performance and business outcome. It actually can do both, and it can do both within the same piece. And the other thing that makes a direct mail particularly interesting is its versatility across industries as well.

00:07:16:09 - 00:07:42:12
Danielle
So we already talked about retail, talked about the example of catalogue. You raise such a good point, Alison. And we can't be the only ones that took note of what was happening in retail last year as it relates to catalogue. Catalogue had a resurgence. Think about all the brands that had incorporated, either revisited, incorporated for the first time, or those that where it's just really a tried and true investment in their overall media mix.

00:07:42:14 - 00:08:07:00
Danielle
You know, Amazon, Sephora, Mastermind, Costco, Canadian Tire, like the list goes on and on. But it seemed to have grown last year. And that's because it doesn't, it doesn't just allow an individual to have an experience with a brand, it actually kicks off the selling process itself and catalogue's such a great vehicle to inspire. Whether that's how could I tackle a redesign of a room styling, a, you know, an outfit, you know?

00:08:07:02 - 00:08:32:00
Danielle
It also delivers tangible product information that helps to remove barriers to purchase; descriptions, sizes, facts . And then when you incorporate things like QR codes, it does you know, it does allow for a movement quickly into the into the shopping experience itself. It's inspiration and it's action really coming together. It doesn't even have to be anything that, quite that sophisticated as a catalogue.

00:08:32:00 - 00:09:00:05
Danielle
It can be a postcard, you know, and that's really more performance, a more performance-driven DM piece, you know, where it's reflecting, you know, reflective of brand. Maybe it's highlighting a high-demand product or a new product launch. You know, integrating an offer in there can have a really strong impact on on conversion. And we, as you might expect, you know, being with Canada Post, we incorporate direct mail, you know, in in a number of different ways in our own marketing mix.

00:09:00:05 - 00:09:27:10
Danielle
And we do it targeting audiences. You know, so we have a really great line of sight to the powerful use cases where DM can drive, you know, particularly impressive outcomes and results. In one, one area comes to mind is with our small business customer base. DM is a really important customer acquisition tool for us. We welcome 100,000 new small business customers to our program each year, and DM plays a really big role in that.

00:09:27:15 - 00:09:47:18
Danielle
And we know two things about DM. One of them is it allows us to spend a moment to provide deeper information on the value of our program and its benefits to, to this customer base. And that's a really important aspect of DM as it relates to how do we how do we convert and acquire these small business customers?

00:09:47:19 - 00:10:06:22
Danielle
But we also know that a small business customer isn't necessarily ready at that at that point in time to respond. The other thing we've seen about the power of DM is its long tail impact. Maybe a small business is in ideation mode around, you know, around, you know, what their business could look like. Maybe they're getting started and they're now seeking partners.

00:10:07:00 - 00:10:35:00
Danielle
Maybe they're scaling for growth. So we'll see response to those small business DM campaigns a month, six months later, a year later. And it's because the small business holds on until they're ready to respond. And they do. And I think this example translates really, really well into the financial services space where, you know, personalization, trust, relevance is so very key.

00:10:35:02 - 00:11:02:05
Danielle
And, you know, you have a lot of data, you have a lot of insight on your customers. Maybe, you know, DM could be used in cases like you've got a customer coming up for mortgage renewal. And it's an opportunity for you to demonstrate maybe a little bit more of a marketing investment in that customer that you wish to retain, and it allows you to deliver a little bit more insight into or information about, you know, the renewal details, the renewal offer, something a bit more personalized.

00:11:02:07 - 00:11:24:05
Danielle
And and when you combine it with QR codes to drive to a digital environment, allowing, you know, presenting maybe, you know, an online booking tool, it actually takes the barriers out of responding to that, you know, you know, to that offer and you know, to that opportunity. You know, sometimes the research process and the selling process can be a little bit longer.

00:11:24:05 - 00:11:52:10
Danielle
So take an investment planning campaign, for example, and the ability for DM to be to be able to communicate something very curated and personalized to a recipient, a recipient and a better program. And it could be based on their income level, their age, their goals. Now, when you pair that with digital tools like, you know, calculators and personalized dashboards, you're really providing a connected journey that empowers the customer, offers an even greater value and builds loyalty with that.

00:11:52:14 - 00:12:28:12
Marc
One of my favourite campaigns from many years ago, was actually a retirement planning campaign for a financial institution. And the mailer was actually designed to reach out to people who were nearing retirement to give them some personalized insights. And we loaded it up with data based on who they were. Not personal personal data, but personal data that reflected their life stage and their investment portfolio, and made recommendations and suggestions of what they could do next, and also invited them into a one-on-one consultation.

00:12:28:14 - 00:12:59:14
Marc
And it's those kinds of touch-points, I think, that really enhance the credibility and strengthen the client relationship that ends up driving action to, you know, meet with that investment advisor or do the next step. I think direct mail really shines here as more than a physical channel when you pair it with data and digital integration or in-person integration, you know, it's really a tool for creating tailored, impactful experiences that clients actually value and remember.

00:13:01:11 - 00:13:34:01
Danielle
You know, non-profits actually really excel here, too. I mean, their their strength  is in their ability to tell very, you know, emotional stories about the things that they do. And so you take an organization like the Canadian Cancer Society. They use DM to tell very heartfelt, meaningful, compelling stories about their patient's journeys. And when you pair that with clear donation pathways, that make, it makes, you know, giving easy and you know, it allows you to feel good about it.

00:13:34:06 - 00:13:58:01
Marc
And, you know, we've always found direct mail to be an incredibly effective tool for not for profit, because it serves that dual purpose - building brand awareness and driving donations. On the awareness side, it really lets organizations tell that compelling story about their mission and their impact, and that helps them create that deeper emotional connection with their donors.

00:13:58:03 - 00:14:30:11
Marc
And then, of course, consistent branding plays a crucial role in long term brand building, you know, reinforcing these connections while establishing and maintaining trust. We've talked about trust a little bit a number of times, I think, today. But at the same time that direct mail is functioning as a performance marketing piece because it's got really clear calls to action, you know, personalized appeals, urgent messaging that implies or rather urgent messaging that inspires immediate support.

00:14:30:12 - 00:15:03:21
Marc
For example, we've worked with MADD Canada and Save the Children to have these work brilliantly across their campaigns. The direct mail efforts combined impactful storytelling with clear donation pathways, delivering really measurable fundraising results. And they don't just reach donors either. They engage them emotionally. So it's not just about getting to them, it's about engaging with them and motivating them to act and leave that lasting impression of the organization's brand and mission.

00:15:03:23 - 00:15:24:16
Marc
So when it's done right, direct mail for not for profits builds really strong foundation for long term donor relationships while still delivering those measurable results. It's this ability to achieve both the storytelling and the action is why direct mail remains really such a powerful tool for not for profits.

00:15:24:18 - 00:15:52:06
Alison
It's really helpful, the way you're bringing the role of direct mail and the power of direct mail to life with these examples. And just to see how broad an impact it can have. Recently I read some research around performance and brand marketing because it has arbitrarily been a bit of a separation in the marketing profession, and there's some great research by Analytic Partners that showed a combined approach can generate a medium uplift of 90% while treating brand and performance marketing

00:15:52:06 - 00:16:14:16
Alison
as separate goals results in a penalty of 40%. So if you think about that and then apply it to direct mail, where you can actually do both in the same vehicle, that's an incredibly powerful opportunity for a lot of our listeners. So with digital dominating marketing to a large degree, the power of more traditional channels like direct mail and a more holistic and integrated marketing approach can often be forgotten.

00:16:14:18 - 00:16:22:01
Alison
How does direct mail integrate with digital channels to amplify both branding and sales efforts? Danielle, do you want to start?

00:16:22:03 - 00:17:02:00
Danielle
I mean, we're big believers in they're better together. And actually DM's ability to integrate with digital is one of its most exciting strengths. It's never one or the other. It's actually the sum of the parts that holds the greatest power, because we know that when paired, they amplify one another. And so I think any marketer who is is listening to this associated with the CMA knows, you know, the power of both in the mix and that it is the one-two punch or the really strategic sequencing of digital and DM that drives the greatest outcome for awareness.

00:17:02:02 - 00:17:35:03
Danielle
It is a big influence of consideration and and certainly response, and even how you embed digital consideration in DM is really, really important. So, you know, whether that's personalized URLs, QR codes or augmented reality features, you know, that helps to create that very seamless or connected bridge between, you know, a physical piece or what's in your mailbox and your, you know, your online or physical channels or your online and physical experiences.

00:17:35:05 - 00:17:55:05
Danielle
You know, we talked a lot about QR codes and for good reason, given their versatility. But they're just, they're really just one part of the puzzle. A postcard, you can take a postcard, for example, and link directly to a personalized landing page tailored to the recipient, while self mailer could do something like embed interactive elements, that get your, you know, recipient engaged.

00:17:55:07 - 00:18:07:02
Danielle
You know, whether that's video, survey, quizzes, maybe even helping you capture a little bit more intelligence about about your customer, or about your prospective customer as well, but certainly all boost engagement.

00:18:07:04 - 00:18:32:13
Marc
Yeah. And, you know, the integration actually works across generations, too. I think there's a tendency to think that younger audiences like Gen Z don't actually pay attention to direct mail, but we've got some really great research that says they spend an average of 12 minutes engaging with their mail, and they actually find addressed mail more trustworthy. In fact, 42% of them, I think, according to the research, say that direct mail is credible.

00:18:32:15 - 00:19:07:08
Marc
And that makes direct mail not just a creative channel, but actually a credible one as well. And when you pair it with some of those digital tools that Danielle was talking about, like personalized offers or exclusive content, it boosts its impact significantly. Campaigns that combine direct mail with digital tools see response rates increase by up to 63%. Now, I think I already said that earlier, but it's worth repeating because that's a really impressive number, and it makes it really clear that that integration is key in driving great results.

00:19:07:10 - 00:19:37:12
Alison
That is definitely an impressive number. And you've done some myth-busting for me as well. I didn't appreciate that younger Canadians are as receptive as they clearly are to direct marketing, and the trust factor of addressed mail is also a wonderful insight that can be leveraged. So what are some examples of brands that are successfully using direct mail for both storytelling and driving immediate action, knowing that every marketer today absolutely needs to be able to deliver results on a weekly, monthly, and quarterly basis.

00:19:37:14 - 00:19:57:22
Danielle
One example that comes to mind is with, it would be Structube. So for those of you who don't know Structube, they are a Montreal-based furniture company with a pretty healthy physical footprint in Canada. After three years of being very, digitally-focused in their marketing strategies, they made the decision to incorporate DM to   test.

00:19:58:00 - 00:20:27:17
Danielle
They did it in a really smart way, it was an eight by ten flyer, very high quality, high impact, you know, deeply-branded experience in that flyer, demonstrating, you know, their modern brand reflecting their website aesthetic. And you know they were obviously able to leverage that piece to depict the really beautiful, you know, furniture collection and lines that they, that they offer Canadians, which really stood out in the mailbox and it was just a physical extension of of their brand story in doing it.

00:20:27:17 - 00:21:03:13
Danielle
But what made this example so effective was that it connected storytelling and action. Structube was, very clear on their targeting strategies. They knew the audience that they were pursuing. That audience included groups like consumers living in apartments and condos, which would be, you know, a high target for the Structube brand. And the results were pretty, pretty impressive. That mix that we've talked about and the power of that mix, drove an increase of 70% in-store traffic and a significant improvement on their overall marketing ROI to the broader program.

00:21:03:15 - 00:21:25:14
Danielle
And they essentially, you know, recognized its value in building both awareness and attracting customers to their physical store network. What what was really interesting about that piece on the physical store network side, because the flyer wasn't just about aesthetics, it actually became part of the selling process. Their customers brought that flyer into stores. You know, their shopping experience had already begun.

00:21:25:20 - 00:21:41:21
Danielle
And actually, it drove considerable activity to their website where the research process and the consideration process and the shopping process continued. You know, they they brought that flyer into stores, and it became part of the engagement they had with store clerks, you know, in their store environment.

00:21:41:23 - 00:22:02:23
Alison
So you both are building a really compelling case to get marketers to rethink the marketing mix and the role of direct mail within it. Now, marketers can be a skeptical group, and there's no doubt that we will still have people tuning in today who continue to discount the role and potential impact that direct mail can deliver for brands and businesses.

00:22:03:01 - 00:22:22:07
Alison
So let's do a bit more myth-busting. I'd love you to share what marketers can do to test and measure the impact of direct mail in their campaigns so that they can experiment and do it   in a way that will suit their budgets and help them understand the true power and impact of direct. Marc, do you want to kick this off?

00:22:22:09 - 00:22:44:17
Marc
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, first and foremost, when it comes to crafting effective direct mail campaigns, we have a pretty handy framework to keep in mind. And it's the 40-40-20 rule or the 20-40-40 rule. Depends on who you ask, but it breaks down the key components of a successful campaign, where 20% of the impact comes from the creative.

00:22:44:21 - 00:23:05:02
Marc
So we don't like to talk about that too much with the creative department. But it's true. It's only 20%. 40% actually comes from the offer. And then the other 40% comes from the targeting. And this rule emphasizes how crucial it is to focus on the audience you're reaching and the relevance of the message that you're delivering, in that order.

00:23:05:02 - 00:23:11:08
Marc
So when you start to test, those are the the kind of the order that you're going to want to test things in.

00:23:11:10 - 00:23:37:07
Danielle
Yeah, absolutely. You know, creativity, I do believe though, creativity is a must for grabbing attention, especially in all crowded marketing spaces, where we're competing for, you know, for share of mind and, and attention. But, and creativity is actually where DM can really shine. But it's also the targeting and the offer. It's the combination of the creativity, the targeting and the offer that's really going to drive relevance.

00:23:37:09 - 00:24:03:04
Danielle
And not unlike digital. You can test DM. You can run an AB test and understand, compare two designs, compare different offers, compare, you know, call to actions to see what works and what drives and what drives response. Today we also have some really exciting tools like predictive eye tracking that can take direct mail creative to really the next level.

00:24:03:06 - 00:24:31:19
Danielle
So predictive eye tracking uses machine learning and AI to evaluate an individual's response to a piece, before it even goes to print actually, which makes it really a really powerful tool in ensuring that your investment is that much more likely to hit the mark. It analyzes things like colour, typography, images, layout, and predicts where the attention will land, guiding, you know, guiding the marketer on 

00:24:31:19 - 00:24:40:11
Danielle
you know, where to place the most important elements of that piece for optimal response, and essentially creating a heat map of hot zones.

00:24:40:13 - 00:25:09:20
Marc
And, you know, I think tools like predictive eye tracking also highlight how much direct mail has evolved to become just as measurable and data-driven as digital channels. You know, whether you're leveraging AI to optimize your design or tracking results with the personal URLs , today's direct mail campaigns are built for precision. This combination of creativity, data, and technology ensures that every campaign is optimized for success.

00:25:09:22 - 00:25:21:20
Alison
So we've covered quite a wide range of topics. We've also done a little bit of myth-busting. So what is the top takeaway that you think will most set up our listeners for success? And Danielle, why don't you get us started?

00:25:21:22 - 00:25:44:01
Danielle
Hopefully, you know, we've left everyone with the notion that direct mail isn't just surviving, it's actually thriving in the digital age. You know, it's it's memorable, it's engaging, it builds relationships and it drives reponse. And I think we've provided some really compelling, you know, use cases and proof points of it doing just that, which is, its brand in hand.

00:25:44:05 - 00:26:06:22
Danielle
And so it's going to naturally help connect your brand with your customer or your prospective customer. But it also is really effective in driving results. In a world dominated, you know, by digital, increasingly by digital and social feeds and fatigue, as a result, DM brings something really special to the table and unique and can be used exactly in that, in that way.

00:26:07:00 - 00:26:31:07
Marc
Absolutely. You know, I also think that direct mail is really proof that traditional channels, when you combine them with digital tools, can be more powerful than ever. We've shared a number of stats I think that prove that point. It's about making meaningful connections that drive real outcomes. So, as Danielle said, don't overlook direct mail and don't overlook your mailbox.

00:26:31:09 - 00:26:35:10
Marc
It's where some of the most impactful marketing is actually happening today.

00:26:35:12 - 00:27:05:09
Alison
That 63% stat definitely resonated with me. Marc. So thank you for helping quantify. It's always really beneficial to understand the actual tangible business impact and consumer impact, and you've both done a great job of bringing that to life. Now you both have incredible careers from both the marketer and the agency side. So before I let you get on with your busy days, I know our listeners would absolutely benefit from some advice and understanding how you helped accelerate your career.

00:27:05:11 - 00:27:14:18
Alison
So to close off today, I'd love you to share one piece of advice that you would give to marketing professionals who aspire to follow in your footsteps. Marc, do you want to go first?

00:27:14:20 - 00:27:44:14
Marc
You know, I think more than anything, it's being curious and harnessing your curiosity to share that with other people. We all got into this business because we loved advertising or creativity or a turn of phrase. But if you can be curious about what's next and what's out there and what's happening and share that with your colleagues, your clients, your boss, I think that you're going to accelerate your career.

00:27:44:14 - 00:28:05:03
Marc
And it doesn't have to be hard. You know, it doesn't have to be speaking in front of a large group or recording a podcast. It can be sending a simple memo or a note about something you've learned and explored. And I think really it's about, just to say it again, be curious and harness the power of your curiosity to share that with other people.

00:28:05:05 - 00:28:07:10
Alison
Great advice. Danielle, what would you add?

00:28:07:12 - 00:28:28:15
Danielle
On a similar note, I think we all know that one of the strengths that a marketing team brings to any organization is a deeper understanding of customer. One of the things, I've been with Canada Post for 25 years, and something that I've done in my own, within my own journey that I have, that's been important, is to get as close to the business as I can.

00:28:28:17 - 00:28:57:23
Danielle
And what that allows is a deep understanding of how we actually solve the customer's business need. So the marriage of the two, really powerful for any high performing marketing organization. But also I find you'll discover things that the business does that matters to the customer, that we haven't necessarily been talking to the customer about. But the knowledge or the combination of knowledge of the business and the knowledge of the customer is when I think any marketing organization can have the greatest impact for a company.

00:28:58:01 - 00:29:05:21
Alison
I love that advice, and I'd love for you to give our listeners a couple of quick examples of how you've helped get really close and embedded in the business.

00:29:06:03 - 00:29:38:13
Danielle
Well, one example would be, you know, my, the time I spent as a marketer in our product organization, we recognized that the e-commerce market was quickly emerging in Canada. It had happened earlier in other countries, so we were watching what was happening globally, and we knew it was an opportunity to deeply understand what our customers needed from us and what we needed to bring about as a business to be partners to the retailers who were entering into this space with pace and determination.

00:29:38:15 - 00:30:07:20
Danielle
And so we we deeply understood what we would need to do as an organization in terms of the build of new capabilities, new technology and how, and the value propositions and how to best articulate them to, you know, to an audience that we were, you know, we were reaching across to in partnership to ultimately enable the early days and stages of e-commerce in Canada and to play a meaningful role at the onset.

00:30:07:22 - 00:30:18:21
Danielle
So it was product and marketing and technology all huddled, to make sure that we were aligned around being a better partner to Canadian business at a time when they needed us.

00:30:18:23 - 00:30:37:08
Alison
That's a great example that also brings to life the advice that Marc gave, you did that because you stay curious, and that's such an important role for every marketer at every level in our careers. So Danielle and Marc, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation and I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedules to join me today.

00:30:37:08 - 00:30:39:01
Danielle
Thanks so much, Alison.

00:30:39:03 - 00:30:44:09
Marc
Thank you so much for having us.

00:30:44:11 - 00:30:57:01
Presenter
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